Ep. 594: Try Becoming a Fan, Plus Tips for Dealing with Travel Bores

Summary

Happier with Gretchen Rubin Ep. 594 Summary

Try Becoming a Fan, Plus Tips for Dealing with Travel Bores
Date: July 8, 2026
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft

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Episode Overview

In this lively and personal episode, Gretchen Rubin and her sister/cohost Elizabeth Craft dive into the benefits of becoming a fan—particularly of sports—and how it can enhance happiness, connection, and personal growth. They share personal anecdotes, explore research findings, and discuss methods for handling conversations with overly enthusiastic travel storytellers. Listener feedback, practical hacks, and their signature demerits and gold stars round out an engaging and actionable episode.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Update: Using Email to Alleviate Worry

• [03:28] A listener named Mary shares that, during stressful times, she emails her thoughts to herself or family at night. This helps clear her mind without burdening others who may not need to act immediately.
  • Gretchen remarks: “She's using email as somebody can get to it when they get to it, but she gets it off her mind right away. So I think that's great... you're not immediately asking them to take action.”
• Scheduling texts and emails can be another option (Elizabeth, [05:03]).

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2. The Four Tendencies Deep Dive (Call for Input)

• [05:17] Gretchen seeks stories and tips specifically for understanding and communicating with “rebels”—one of her Four Tendencies personality types.
  • She asks listeners: “Rebels. I want all things rebel, so send them my way.”

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3. Upcoming Milestone: Approaching the 600th Episode

• [06:08] The sisters invite listeners to share:

  • What advice or ideas from the podcast have most resonated?
  • What practical tip or nugget from past episodes truly stuck?

  “There’s things like the one-minute rule where it works, but only as long as you do it. You have to remember to do it.” — Gretchen ([06:54])

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4. Try This at Home: Try Becoming a Fan (Especially of Sports)

Gretchen’s Journey into Sports Fandom

• [07:02] Gretchen details her experiment in intentionally becoming an NBA (Knicks) fan as a way to embrace her empty nest transition and bond with her husband Jamie.
  • She describes watching games, learning the rules, becoming emotionally invested, and how the team’s unexpected success supercharged her enthusiasm.
  • Notable moment: Attending the now-legendary Game 4—“For the rest of your life, you are going to be bragging to people, ‘I was at Game 4 in 2026.’” – Jamie, as retold by Gretchen ([09:17])
• Elizabeth’s Reaction:
  • Seeing Gretchen’s passion inspired Elizabeth to tune into the Knicks as well:

    “I was even watching that game because I was interested, because you were interested…” ([09:25])

The Research on Sports Fandom and Happiness

• [10:02] Gretchen cites a Time Magazine article, "Why Watching Sports Makes People Happy," summarizing the science:
  • Builds community and provides conversational capital.
  • Increases anticipation, learning, and a sense of belonging.
  • Attending live events has even more benefits.

Downsides and Work-Life Balance

• [10:59] The “pain of loss” after a favorite team loses can be very real.
• [11:41] Fandom can crowd out time for other things. It’s important to stay balanced and connected in real life, not just vicariously through screens.
  • Example from Gretchen’s college days:

    “I said, ‘Well, you have plenty of time to read, you spend hours watching sports on TV.’ And he said, ‘Well, that doesn't count.’ I was like, it does count, right?” ([12:03])

• Elizabeth’s Perspective: Her husband Adam enjoys sports but doesn’t let viewing take priority over family or social activities ([12:44]).

Practical Suggestions for Becoming a Fan

• [14:31]

  • Get an “ambassador”—someone excited to share knowledge and answer questions.
  • Use fandom to build connections and attend events in person.
  • “Buy” into the experience (e.g., wear team apparel).
  • Go beyond passive consumption—actively learn, follow strategy, engage in discussions.
  • Apply the same concept to non-sports areas (musicals, art, birdwatching, etc.).

  “Everything is more valuable when it connects us to others.” — Gretchen ([14:41])
  “The more you know, the more you notice, the more you bring to it, the more you get from it.” — Gretchen ([15:21])

Why it Matters

• [16:20] Becoming a fan gives a sense of novelty, identity, and anticipation—a new structure for time and opportunity for growth.

  “[It’s] a new identity. It’s a new purpose. It’s a new way to structure your time. It's a new way to have anticipation. It's a new way to have adventure and novelty.” — Gretchen ([16:49])

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5. Happiness Hack: Cross Out the Common Denominator

• [20:30] Gretchen’s decision-making advice:
  • When torn between several options sharing the same uncertainty (e.g., “any flight I choose might be delayed”), mentally cross that off—it doesn’t help distinguish between choices.

    “This is just something I realize is a very bad mental habit that I have.” — Gretchen ([23:02])

  • Elizabeth relates with the unpredictability of planning as a TV producer and letting go of over-controlling for work schedules ([22:14]).

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6. Listener Tips: Handling Overly Detailed Travel Tales

• [24:05] Strategies for politeness and conversational survival:

  • Jess: Suggest they email or text their travel tips so you’ll have them saved—this redirects the deluge without causing offense.
  • Jillian: Ask for just the “two top experiences and why”, or direct the conversation to overlap with your interests (ask for a story or an image instead of an itinerary).
  • Jackie: Use specific, concise questions (“What are the top three must-see sights?”), avoid general prompts like “What was your favorite?”, and try to gently guide the narrative.

  “If you can make it honestly interesting, then it's a good conversation. It's just that when one person's enjoying it and one person is not, that's when you have the problem.” — Gretchen ([25:40])
  “Never ask what was your favorite? Because so many people will respond, ‘Everything was my favorite!’ and start rattling off their daily itinerary.” — Listener Jackie ([27:16])

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7. Listener Question: Skipping COVID-Era Episodes

• [27:44] Ashley feels unable to listen to pandemic-era episodes while catching up.

  • Both hosts encourage her to skip ahead, and reassure completists that it's okay to carve out exceptions for traumatic or undesirable content.

  “We hereby say to you, this is a force majeure. You can still consider you're a completist if you just skip that section.” — Gretchen ([29:22])

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8. Demerit & Gold Star

Demerit: Delayed Returns

• [33:00] Elizabeth confesses to missing a return window for a pink t-shirt—she waited to open the package as a self-imposed reward after a work milestone, which led to missing the deadline.

  “I will wait to open it. Oh. Because I'm waiting to give myself a reward. Interesting.” — Elizabeth ([34:13])

  • This sparks a discussion about delayed gratification as a method for accountability and pleasure.

Gold Star: The Everyday Coaster

• [36:20] Gretchen gives a gold star to “the everyday coaster”—their reliability, giftability, and the simple joy of useful, personal objects.
  • The sisters share stories about favorite coasters and their sentimental associations.

  “They don't take up much space. They're perfectly suited to their purpose. I have one little job to do, and I will do it faithfully. And I appreciate that about them.” — Gretchen ([37:16])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Could I make myself get interested in something?” — Gretchen, reflecting on intentional fandom ([07:44])
• “Every medicine can become poison.” — Gretchen on monitoring the time spent as a fan ([12:41])
• “There's things like the one-minute rule where it works, but only as long as you do it.” — Gretchen ([06:55])
• “It's a new identity. It's a new purpose. It's a new way to structure your time.” — Gretchen ([16:47])
• “I think that is so bonkers that we went through that as a country together.” — Elizabeth on pandemic memories ([29:55])
• “I love coasters as well. Probably it goes along with my love of mugs.” — Elizabeth ([37:16])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:28] Listener update: Using email to cope with worry
• [07:02] Main theme introduction: Becoming a sports fan
• [09:25] Gretchen’s Knicks fandom, attending Game 4
• [10:02] Research: Why sports fandom increases happiness
• [14:31] Practical advice on intentional fandom
• [16:20] Why fandom adds purpose and novelty
• [20:30] Happiness Hack: Cross out the common denominator
• [24:05] Listener strategies for handling travel bores
• [27:44] Listener question: Skipping COVID-era podcast episodes
• [33:00] Demerit: Missed return window
• [36:20] Gold star: The humble coaster

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Flow & Tone

The episode, like the best of Happier, dances between sisterly banter, research-backed advice, and crowd-sourced wisdom. The conversation is open, self-aware, and relatable, with Gretchen’s signature blend of research and real-life experimentation and Elizabeth’s good-humored, practical reflections.

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Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode:

• Clear breakdown of why and how to become a fan of something—sports or otherwise—to foster happiness and new connections.
• Tactics for steering travel-heavy conversations and getting the information (or brevity) you want.
• Practical mental “hack” to avoid overthinking decisions.
• Reassurance on skipping stressful content and letting go of perfectionism.
• Relatable insights on daily life challenges (returns, treats, and coasters!), all delivered with the sisters’ trademark warmth and wit.

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For further details or to share your feedback, listeners are encouraged to reach out on social media or email [e-mail].

Transcript

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

You can focus on exercise, nutrition, all the things you're supposed to do for your health, but if you are not sleeping well, it is very hard to

[Elizabeth Craft]

feel refreshed, especially when you wake up overheated in the middle of the night. That completely affects my sleep, which is why I love the Chilipad 2.0 by sleepmirk me. It is a water based mattress topper that controls your sleep temperature and works with your existing mattress. And if one person sleeps hot and the other sleeps cold, and that's Adam and me, each side can have its own temperature setting, which is amazing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, and I also love that it automatically starts when you get into bed so it feels seamless. Visit www.sleep.me Gretchen to get up to $255 off your Chilipad 2.0 with code Gretchen. This special offer is available for happier and only for a limited time. Order it today with free shipping and try it out for 30 days. You can return it for free if you don't like it with their sleep trial. Visit www.sleep s l e e p.me Gretchen and see why cold sleep is your ultimate ally in performance and recovery. Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast that gives you ideas for how to be happier. This week we'll talk about why, if you're not a sports fan already, you might consider trying to become one. And we have some listener suggestions about dealing with people who want to give every detail about their latest travels. I'M Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits and human nature. I'm in my hot little home office in New York City and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, it always makes me happy to talk to you.

[Elizabeth Craft]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in la and Gretch, I fear I was guilty of too many details about our walking trip in England that we took a couple of years ago. I imagine I went on too much about the detail.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's one of those things where we've all done it. Yes, but it's good to think about the people on the other side. But before we jump in, we have an update from a listener.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, Mary says, I just finished your episode about worry and have something that may help other listeners. I'm a retired birth doula and often pregnant clients would ruminate about something during the middle of the night. Because of the nature of birth work, my phone and texts were always on. I asked my clients who had non urgent questions or thoughts to email me during off hours 8pm to 8am this got whatever was on their mind a place to go. I needed to use this for myself recently and wanted to share it with you and other listeners. My dad is 90 and went into the hospital for scheduled surgery after a fall. I was with him in the hospital for surgery and stayed through the night or two that was expected. The surgery went well but he had a stroke early the next morning. I desperately wanted to call my husband but there was nothing he could do as we live six hours away. I also felt the need to document what had transpired so I wrote an email to my husband, brother and sister in law. We ended up in the hospital and rehab for four weeks and I continued to use email as a way to document the events of the day and a brain dump to help me unload before trying to sleep. There's no good sleep in the hospital.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well this is interesting and I think Mary is using if I'm reading her correctly, she's using email as something that people won't feel like they will read immediately and act on. Like you might do that with a text. So she's using email as somebody can get to it when they get to it, but she gets it off of her mind right away. So I think that's great where you feel like you're reaching out to somebody but in a way where you're not immediately asking them to take action.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And you can also always schedule texts and emails as well.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, I use delayed Delivery both in text and in email all the time. Because I agree, I like to get it out. There is something very freeing in the mind about getting it out.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And reminder for you rebels out there or people who deal with rebels in work and in life, I have a special call. I love thinking about the four Tendencies and learning more about the four Tendencies framework. And again, if you don't know what a rebel is, or an upholder or questioner or an obliger, you can go to GretchenRubin.com, take the quiz, find out what you are, learn a ton. But I want to do a deep dive on rebels. And so I really want to hear what works for rebels, whether it's dealing with yourself as a rebel or dealing with a person who is a rebel, because I feel like they're often misunderstood. And because of that, people aren't communicating with them effectively or sometimes they're not good at figuring out how to manage themselves. And so rebels. I want all things rebel, so send them my way. Podcastretchenrubin.com, and and then, Elizabeth, we have a huge milestone coming up.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Our 600th episode, Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I mean, unbelievable.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Wow. I cannot believe it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Who would have ever thought, right?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So for the 600th episode, we would love to highlight what has stuck with people the most. What have you really tried that's worked for you? What have you learned? What has resonated the most? Because sometimes it's almost throwaway. Things when. Or things that we didn't understand were big ideas when we talked about them, or then sometimes we understood they were big ideas because we knew they resonated with people. But we like knowing that what works in people's actual lives.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. I love hearing it because it'll remind me of things we talked about that have impacted me or that I want to kind of recommit to.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Love it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There's things like the one minute rule where it works, but only as long as you do it. You have to remember to do it. Yeah, exactly.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Exactly.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This week, our Try this at Home Suggested is inspired by my experience. And the suggestion is, if you are not a sports fan, consider trying to become one.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay. Gretch. So many, many people, of course, sports is their life. They love it. But there are those of us who have never seen an entire football game.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Tell us what inspired you to become a sports fan. I've been watching this journey from afar and it's been fascinating to me.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. And I've talked about it a few times, but it's been so life changing. I want to go into it. So for project Empty Nest, of course I was thinking about ways to make my life bigger, have an atmosphere of growth in the empty nest transition. As part of his own empty nest transition, my husband Jamie, who's always been a lifelong Knicks fan, a friend of his approached him and said, hey, do you want to split season tickets? And Jamie said, yeah, actually, that would be great, because when we had kids at home, we would try to stay home. But then we thought, if you've got season tickets, you really want to go. So this was something he'd always wanted to do. And so here he was doing it, and he said to me, half joking, you know, you're going to have to learn to love the Knicks. And at first I was sort of like, no, I don't have to, and that's not me. And then I thought, no, this is actually great. I've always wanted to just see if I could decide to make myself be interested in something. Like, Elizabeth, if I said to you, I have decided to become interested in the Real Housewives, and I'm just going to go deep and you're going to be my ambassador and I'm going to do it, I. Could I do that. Could I make myself get interested in something? Because it was so important to Jamie and he was a willing ambassador. And I do think it helps to have an ambassador trying to enter into an interest. I just decided, okay, I'm gonna get interested in the Knicks. And I started watching videos and I reacquainted myself with the rules and I learned about the players and oh, boy, I picked the right time to get interested in the Knicks because all of a sudden their fortunes changed and they were doing much better than anybody expected. There was a lot to follow. And. And it's been funny to me that really the whole country was so excited for the Knicks. And I said to Jamie, is it like this every year was the NBA championship? And he's like, no, no, no, this is big. Because it'd been 53 years or whatever since they had last won. And there was this incredibly now legendary game, Game four. And Elizabeth, I was there at that game. And Jamie said, for the rest of your life, you are going to be bragging to people. I was at game four in 2026.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I mean, Gretchen, I was even watching that game because I was interested, because you were interested, and I knew you were caring about the Knicks now. So I started caring. And then that game, I just. I think I kept texting you, like,

[Gretchen Rubin]

oh, My gosh, this is unbearable.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. And you were like, what's happening there right now? And I'm like, no one is saying a word because they were so far back. They were 29 points back. It was a historic comeback. And I will just say it was not fun to watch because it was almost worse when you were like, oh, wow, they really might be able. Because the suspense was just. I kept putting my face in my hands, and then Jamie's like, you're gonna miss something. Come on.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Look.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So anyway, they came back, and it was incredibly exciting, and everybody's been talking about it, and it's just been a huge, glorious thing for New York City. Everybody came together, but this got me interested in what does the research show about the connection between watching sports and health? And it turns out there's a lot of relationship between those two things. And there's a great article in Time magazine. I'll put it in the show notes, called why Watching Sports Makes People Happ. And it's all the things you think. It brings people together. It gives you something to talk about with a stranger. It gives you anticipation. It gives you a sense of learning and growth. If you attend live, that's even better because, you know, we talk about that all the time. Going to things, buying tickets. It gives people a greater sense of life satisfaction and a lessened sense of loneliness because there is this feeling of connection to the other people who share your fandom. It's really powerful.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Now, are there downsides, Gretch?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, there are downsides. Well, first of all, what is the most obvious downside is the pain of loss. Yes. This is when people just are beside themselves with loss. And, in fact, a friend of ours, he went to college with you, Elizabeth. And then I know him here in New York city is Warren St. John, and he wrote a fascinating book called Rammer Jammer Yellowhammer that is about the psychology of fandom, because he was such a huge fan himself, and he said, I wanted to understand why watching a football game on TV could leave me curled up in a ball in my bed. And so there's that. Sometimes you get the upside when they win, but then also, like, what is your experience when they lose?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right. And it also can be extremely time consuming, which, in your case, you and Jamie are doing it together. So that's time you spend together, which definitely helps. I mean, it's not great to become a huge fan, I guess, on your own and then spend all this time on your own. Nice to have that, buddy. Like you were saying, the ambassador well,

[Gretchen Rubin]

this is something interesting, Elizabeth, because I think that for some people, it can start to crowd out other things. Going to things in person, seeing people, connecting with actual people, not just in your head, like as a fan, but like, actually connecting with people, making time for other things in your life. I remember when I was in college, my roommate's boy. Because, you know, I was in a house with three other people, and my roommate's boyfriend said to me, patronizingly, well, I wish I had time to read the way you do. And I said, well, you have plenty of time to read. You spend hours watching sports on tv. And he said, well, that doesn't count. And I was like, it does count, right? It's an activity that you're doing with your leisure time. So I think at a certain point, it could start to crowd out other things that might make you happier overall. So it's just something to be aware of. Every medicine can become poison.

[Elizabeth Craft]

One thing I love about Adam is he loves watching sports, but he never prioritizes watching any kind of sport. I mean, unless it's something absolutely huge, like the NBA finals.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Over going to dinner with me or something.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And Jack, he would never say, oh, I got to stay home because the game is on.

[Elizabeth Craft]

No, but if he's home, he'll be watching sports. You know, it'll be on. But this whole try this at home is making me think I should try to get into one of his sports.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I should ask him, because kind of, they're all the same to me.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

What would be the most fun for me to learn about? Because I am interested. I like when he tells me about different golfers, for instance, I do find it fascinating to learn about the players. So I'm gonna ask him.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, Adam and Jack both play golf, so that's good.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But then maybe if you were interested in basketball, then you and I could be interested in basketball together. So that would be fun. There's a lot of options.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. Okay, I'm gonna ponder this, but here's a funny thing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I was talking to somebody who's out on the dating market, Right. And she was talking about this guy and how it hadn't worked out. And I said, why didn't work out? And she said, well, he kept telling me how much he loves sports, but then I realized he just likes watching tv. He never played sports. And I was like, well, that's interesting. I think that somehow watching sports almost feels like doing sports. It doesn't feel like, oh, this is TV watching time, but it really is TV watching. So I think you feel like you're getting credit. And of course, we're saying, oh, being a sports fan is great. So it can bring all these other things, but it's just in the right proportion so that you're getting the benefit and it's not taking away from other things that are also important.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, Gretch, I have to say I'm not worried about you losing yourself to basketball.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I think that that is correct. So here is a few of my suggestions about whether you want to become a fan of something. And it doesn't have to be sports, right? We're talking about sports because sports is unique. You could be a fan of musicals. You could be a fan of impressionism. You could be a fan of bird watching. So here are some of my observations about doing this. First of all, do try to have an ambassador. Have somebody who can infect you with their enthusiasm and guide your way and answer obvious questions and just help usher you into the scene. Try to use it as a way to get closer to other people, too, because everything is more valuable when it connects us to others. So go to things in real life. Go with friends. I'm doing it as a way to grow closer to Jamie. And then also the friends that we're sharing the season tickets with, I've seen a lot of them, too. Buy something that displays your enthusiasm. I have my lucky Nick sweatshirt, and I love having it. Now, you don't want to let that just get you too carried away. But I think it's fun to have your Corgi Nation magnet or your Knicks sweatshirt or whatever. But also, I think that it's important, at least it's been important for me not to just let this be a passive thing, but really try to invest it with my time and my energy and my learning. Really do try to not just enjoy the spectacle of it, but really try to say, well, what about this? What about that? Listen to more sophisticated conversations about it. Because, you know, the more you know, the more you notice, the more you bring to it, the more you get from it. And I think for a while, I was just kind of enjoying, like, the New York City spirit of it. And that was fun. But the more I got into the actual, okay, why are they putting this player in instead of that player? I'm still in such a naive level. I'm asking such basic questions, but I know enough to be curious. Why is Jose Alvarado going in now? What's the theory behind that? And so I'm learning. I'm learning. I'M at the beginning of my journey. Thank you to the Knicks for making it so fun. Definitely a fun time.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So let us know if you do try this at home and how deciding to become a sports fan or really any kind of fan has worked for you. If you were starting pretty much from zero the way I was, how did you make that shift? And I think this is something that can add tremendously to life. It's that atmosphere of growth. Elizabeth yes, it's a new identity. Absolutely. It's a new purpose. It's a new way to structure your time. It's a new way to have anticipation. It's a new way to have adventure and novelty. Let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook. Drop us an [e-mail] or as always, you can go to the show notes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Go to happiercast.com Coming up, we've got a happiness hack to help you make decisions. But first, this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. We talk about mental health much more openly than we used to, but asking for help can still feel surprisingly difficult. In fact, BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma report surveyed 2,000Americans and revealed that 85% of Americans believe getting support is wise, yet 74% say society discour prevent US people from doing so. The gap is fascinating. We can believe something is helpful and still hesitate to take the step ourselves.

[Elizabeth Craft]

One way to close that gap is by normalizing conversations about mental health and encouraging people to seek support when they think it could help. BetterHelp has over 30,000 therapists and has served more than 6 million people globally. They also do the initial matching work for you, using a short questionnaire to help identify your needs and preferences. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with better help. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Gretchen Rubin that's better. H E L P.com Gretchen Rubin I

[Gretchen Rubin]

always laugh when people say shopping is fun because honestly, to me it just feels like another thing on the to do list. Between work, family, travel and everything else, I don't have the time to wander around stores trying to figure out what works. And and that is why I love daily look. I just got a Dailylook box and it included a great summer top and a lightweight layer that I've already worn multiple times. With DailyLook, you get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape, preferences and lifestyle.

[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Elizabeth Craft]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, so this is one that I realized that I really need to use in my own life, which is when making a decision cross out the common denominator.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So explain that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, sometimes you're deciding between an apple and an apple and an apple and an apple and you're trying to figure out which one to choose. And I realize that sometimes I will feel like I can't make a decision right? This is do you need more time or do you need to make a decision? I will procrastinate about making a decision decision because I'll think about something like, well, maybe that's not going to work out. And the obvious example and the one that I that it comes up every single time I do it, which is if I book this flight, it might end up being the most inconvenient flight of the day. I might bitterly regret that I picked this flight instead of this flight. Why didn't I take the first flight out in the morning. Why didn't I take the mid afternoon flight out when everything's quieter, whatever it is. And then I realized every single flight that I might take, that is true of, there is no way to know looking forward what the reality is. I cross it off. It's a common denominator. Every choice I have includes that something like, well, if I book this travel, well, maybe the weather will be really bad. Now, of course you can say, like, is it likely to be rainy in England in April? You can look that up. But to a certain degree, you can only control so much for that. And sometimes you're in la, Remember, Elizabeth, you had a party in la and it hasn't really rained hard in LA for years. But the day that I have an outdoor party, when was that? Well, you had that outdoor party and it was like, okay, it's pouring rain.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But you couldn't say, well, I can't pick a date for the party because it might rain. You don't know when it's gonna rain. It's two months away.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, this comes up with me all the time because of work. Because my work is very unpredictable.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So planning ahead. I always think, well, what if something important is happening at this time? What if something important is happen at that time? And I can never know. And so Sarah and I have just decided we have to just make our travel plans or our vacation plans and just let it be what it is. And we always say, hey, worst case, we'll cancel, right?

[Gretchen Rubin]

No. And I noticed that now when we're making plans, you and I, sometimes you'll say like, well, I'll just say subject to something really needing a huge amount of attention, work. And I'm like, we always just stipulate to that in the background that that could happen when there's conditions of uncertainty like that. It's just this thing where you feel like if you wait, you'll have more information, but you really can't have more information beyond a certain point. So you just have to move forward.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This is just something I realize is a very bad mental habit that I have.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. And I think it's that anxiety of making decisions.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

We put in all sorts of reasons not to make the decision.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Which leads to more anxiety.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. And my whole thing is also, I need to consult with somebody. It's like, I don't need to consult with anybody. This is my decision to make. Yeah. But anyway, cross off the common denominator. But now we have some listener suggestions about what to do if you're feeling a little bit overwhelmed by people's desire to tell you every detail about travel. And I have to say, Elizabeth, I do feel sour that I raised this because it's like, is it so hard to just listen to somebody's heartfelt talk about their travels? But I think that I'm not alone in this feeling because people have suggestions which make me think that they've thought about this themselves.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. It's funny, Gretchen, to think back in the day people would have dinner party and show slides from their travels. Remember that was a whole.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Entertaining sub genre.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, that's true.

[Elizabeth Craft]

You wouldn't have enjoyed that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay, Jess said, because people sharing travel ideas with you are probably listing a lot of names and locations, you could gently interrupt them, tell them you are nervous. You won't remember all the great suggestions and request that they send you a text or an email with the information. That way their itch to share is scratched, but you don't have to pretend to care while you listen. The email or text will be easy to ignore or reply to with a quick thanks and everyone wins. Odds are they won't remember to send the information anyway. Hope this helps.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I really like that because that says, oh, your information is very valuable.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I'm not sure people won't catch on to what's happening, but. But perhaps.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, perhaps others like oh yeah, I don't want to take the time to write it out. Jillian says literally, I am writing this from a ferry from Cherbourg to Dublin. Ha. I have two suggestions for when you are trapped in travel chat. One is something my old boss used to do. Tell me two top experiences and why they were your favorites. That puts a limit on it for both of you. You'll know how much you have to endure. Second would be to turn your conversation into a quest instead of a job. That's the secret of adulthood. A quest is more fun than a jaunt. Ask them something specific along the lines of your own interests. Like paint me a portrait of your experience in the Tokyo Tea House. Or can you describe the most colorful place you went and what the colors were? Or is this a place my grown and flown daughters and I could enjoy? Or one that you would suggest for an empty nester or open door to go alone. Honestly, I feel so boring when I talk about dreams or travel and try to hustle it up. But I would love a little mini thought experiment that let me look at my recent memory through a different lens and describe it in a way that is more engaging for My listener, and you could get fodder for your next book. Well, I think that's a great suggestion because both of them are about directing the conversation in a way so that I could honestly be interested in it. I think that is the secret, which is if you can make it honestly interesting, then it's a good conversation. It's just that when one person's enjoying it and one person is not, that's when you have the problem. So I think both of these suggestions are really strong.

[Elizabeth Craft]

What she's saying does bring about more connection between you and the other person because you're sharing something more meaningful.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So it has an advantage.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But also, I will say this, that if somebody tries to direct you that way, listen to them. One of the things I'm responding to is an unforgettable conversation I had with somebody where I just would try to direct her and she just would not be directed. I was like, well, you know, I'm really not a foodie, so food's not my thing. And she's like, okay, but let me tell you about this great restaurant.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right?

[Gretchen Rubin]

I'm telling you, I'm not a foodie. That's not interesting to me. Whereas if she was like, oh, we went to this amazing museum that nobody's ever heard of, I would have been like, oh, I love an off the beaten path museum. What's that? So if somebody's trying to gently direct you, allow yourself to be directed.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Jackie says we have friends who can recap a trip in a concise manner, which we so enjoy. Others give so many in depth details, you become uninterested fairly quickly. I have tried to ask questions, control the narrative. What are the top three must see sites? Which museum did you find most interesting? What did you find fascinating about the country's culture or the city's architecture? Have your questions be concise. Never ask what was your favorite? Because so many people will respond, everything was my favorite. And start rattling off their daily itinerary. If you ask questions, you sound interested and hopefully can avoid listening to stories that don't interest you at all.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, these are all great suggestions.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And now I can't wait for somebody to come at me with their lengthy travel conversation to see what I can turn it into. So thank you, everyone. That's great.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And now, Gretchen, we have a listener question.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ashley says, over the last year or so, I have been binging the podcast from the beginning and I've just gotten to January 2020. Well, Ashley, that's great. We love our completists we love people who start from the beginning and go for she said, but okay, January 2020. That's significant. She said, I know what's coming. The craziness of COVID but you too, don't. And I've suddenly hit a wall. I can't make myself listen to the 20 for 2020. That's episode 255. List episode. I'm not sure what's going on here, but I'm thinking it's just a resistance to revisiting that time. What do you think I should do? Should I skip forward? If so, how far? I am a completist, so the idea of skipping bothers me. But I miss listening to the show, and I would rather have a little blip in the timeline than miss out on happier listening to you Both is a bright spot at work. Well, first of all, Ashley, thank you so much. It's great to hear that you're enjoying it so much, but I know what you mean about not wanting to go back to that time. And so I say just skip forward. Right?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. I mean, when did things semi. Get back to normal? Certainly she could skip all of. Of 2020 and maybe half of 2021.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. And just pick back up. And the thing is now, I mean, we're coming up on our 600th episode. Plus now we have the mores. We've started doing the mores. So we have all our mores.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There's a lot of material there. Yeah, skip ahead a year. Listen for a little bit, see if you like where we are. If you're like, no, don't wanna do that. To skip ahead again another six months. We both know that desire to be completists, but we hereby say to you, this is a force majeure. You can still consider you're a completist if you just skip that section. We'll just consider that section like special listening at this point so that you can say, okay, I'm a completist. Except for this one special part that they did, which now is in a special category.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I get it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I have a podcast that I listen to, and I actually find it really interesting to hear them talk about it in real time. But I can imagine not being interested in hearing them talk about it in real time and not being interested in hearing us talk about it in real time.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I always think, like, that is. That is so bonkers that we went through that as a country together. I can't believe that that happened.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I was at a kidlit group last night, and we were talking about the same thing. We were just like, wow, did that actually happen to us? Yeah. We live through that.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah. I'm always saying to Jack, like, you have no idea how unlike anything that we've ever experienced that was.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. It is something that many people, people do not choose to revisit. So we get it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Ashley, skip ahead.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. And we give you a gold star for your enthusiasm. Certainly.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Coming up, I give myself an errand demerit the first this break.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I've been trying to say yes more to little adventures. Nothing huge, just getting out of the routine and going somewhere different for the day. And it really makes you appreciate having a car that feels solid and comfortable where you're not thinking about the drive,

[Elizabeth Craft]

you're just focused on where you're going.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's what stood out to me about the Defender. It has that rugged design, but it also feels really thoughtful inside and I like that. There's a full lineup from the two door 90 to the 110 and the 130 with seating for up to eight. So it really fits different kinds of

[Elizabeth Craft]

plants and it's built with those durable, purposeful materials so you can actually use it without worrying about every little thing. It also has features that make driving feel easier like Clearsight technology and the PIVI Pro system so you can keep track of where you're going and everything you want to listen to along the way. Plus, with up to 89 cubic feet of cargo space and available three rows, it gives you a lot of flexibility depending on what you're bringing with you. You explore the full Defender lineup@land roverusa.com

[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

time for demerits and gold stars. And this is an even numbered episode, and that means it's your turn to talk about a demerit.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. So, Gretchen, I bet this is something many, many listeners will relate to, which is I didn't return something in a timely fash and then it was too late.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We've all done it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yep.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Got to do those returns right away or they. What happened?

[Elizabeth Craft]

What happened? Well, I was buying an off white T shirt for my off white delight. Ordering it, and on a whim, I don't know why, it's so unlike me. I also ordered this light pink T shirt. I never wear light pink to begin with, but I don't know, it just looks so luscious. I just had to have it. But the light pink T shirt is a new style for the company. And so it's a bit small. In other words, I've got my normal size, but it's a bit small. And then it's too late to return it. Now, I will tell you one reason why this happens, Gretchen, which you might relate to. I have this habit when I order something, if it's something I really want, I really wanted this great white T shirt. I will wait to open it. Oh. Because I'm waiting to give myself a reward. Interesting. And I might wait two weeks.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I don't do that at all. I open things that same day to get rid of the box. Well, that's so interesting because we always talk about getting a present in the mail. So you're saving it up when you need a little bit of a lift.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes. And knowing it's there and I haven't opened it is like a little treat. And so I get more pleasure out of it the longer I wait. Sure. Which Adam's always like, are you gonna open that? And I'm. Yes, I'm waiting till I. After I do this pitch on Wednesday. And that's gonna be my reward, even though I know what it is.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Wait, can I just say wait? This is so interesting. This could almost be an accountability adjacent thing where it's like, I really wanna open that box, but I can't do it unless I've gone to orangetheory twice this week or something. Because we're always looking for innovative accountability, especially for obligers. Well, you know, I said I'm trying to find out more about rebels, but I'm always trying to find new accountability things. Yes. So this is interesting. But for you it's more. Okay, this is the treat I'm gonna give myself to look forward to after I get through this arduous thing, then I'll get. I've never thought to do that. Fascinating.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I do that. But then the issue is, like, in this case, I waited too long. Now, I'm sure I opened it before the return period, but then you have a much shorter window.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Sure.

[Elizabeth Craft]

And so then it passed me by.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You don't realize. Yeah, yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

This is why I shouldn't order anything that I don't know my size, because returning is such a hassle. And there's nothing worse than, like, buying something and then not being able to return it if it doesn't work.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

So anyway.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Craft]

It is what it is.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But see, Elizabeth, I have to contemplate this. So, listeners, if you do this, too, how do you use this? How do you think about it? This reminds me of when I found out that people would fill their carts for fun and then. And then abandon them. That that was a thing people did for. I think that this is so fascinating. It's using delayed gratification to give yourself a little jolt of pleasure or a little bit of accountability. Interesting.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I want to know more about that.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We must discuss. Okay.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Okay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Interesting.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Now, how about you, Gretch? What is your gold star?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. I want to give a gold star to an everyday item. I want to sing the praises of the everyday coaster. I just was thinking I'd love a coaster. I have a very cool coaster that somebody gave me as a gift. It's right here on my desk right now. And every time I look at them, I think about them. And also, it was tied to my Life in Five Senses book because it looks like it would have a really strange, bumpy texture, but it's actually smooth, almost like a trompe l'. Oeil. So it reminds me of life in Five Senses, which I had so much fun writing. Elizabeth, when we went on our amazing hiking trip, our leader, who we loved so much, Jeremy, as the memento of the trip, gave everybody two coasters. I love those two coasters. You gave me some really fancy living room coasters. I use those all the time. They make great gifts. They don't take up much space. They're perfectly suited to their purpose. I have one little job to do, and I will do it faithfully. And I appreciate that about them.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Well, I love coasters as well. Probably it goes along with my love of mugs. Coasters are so necessary. Like you said, they have one job to do, but it's such a necessary job. Like, if you don't have a coaster. You're really bumming out.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You know, can I just say, Eleanor still does. I'm just like, eleanor, we're pastor, we're past this. I don't understand why this message? Because she's always like, oh, I was just going to get one. I'm like, no, you were not. It's just sitting there on the counter. You were not on your way to get a coaster.

[Elizabeth Craft]

I have to shout out a couple of my favorite coasters. And my friend Karine gave me a set of coasters that are mug shots of Real Housewives.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, those are on your treadmill desk. When you close your treadmill desk, you're like, oh, these are my special treadmill desk coasters. Yes. Oh, they're the mug shots. They're very, very funny.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Very funny. And then Sarah recently gave me some beautiful Mahjong coasters. So that is great. And I have nice coasters from when Adam and I got married that I love. And every time I use it, I think, oh, this is from when we got married. So I agree. Coasters are so great because they don't take up space.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Craft]

They can be very personal or they can be very impersonal.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. They can be very classic. You know? And I've never given coasters as a hostess gift or a housewarming gift, but this is making me think I should get coasters. Because you always need coasters. It's always nice to have a set of coasters. Okay. It's just one of those things where I was just like, I really appreciate a coaster. Does a coaster fit into the thing that's achieved its final and perfect form, like the tuxedo? But I think that they're too varied.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

They're not specific enough.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, anyway, the resource for this week, if you are looking for a fun way to add more novelty to your summer, because we are in summer now, check out the new Summer Bingo card in the Happier App. People love the Bingo card. They love to gamify. And this is filled with just very simple activities to help you try new things, make memories, enjoy the season. You can see if you can get bingo or maybe even get the whole card, which is quite attainable. Download the [e-mail] and it's right there on the homepage. If you haven't done Design youn Summer yet, you can do it with the Happier app. Elizabeth, I know you're using the happier app for your Design youn Summer, which is great.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I sure am.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So, Elizabeth, what are we reading. What are you reading?

[Elizabeth Craft]

I'm reading There's Only One Sin in Hollywood by Rasheed Newsom.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm reading the Scorpio Races by Maggie Stiefik. And that's it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Try becoming a fan. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you. What kind of fandom did you join?

[Elizabeth Craft]

Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Lemonada.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And here's your rhyming reminder. If the show sparks joy in your soul, nudge others to enroll.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Love it. Until next week. I'm Elizabeth Craft.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I'm Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward. So, Elizabeth, it occurs to me that maybe I could wear that shirt. If it's too small for you and you can't return it, maybe I'll try it.

[Elizabeth Craft]

Yes, I'll bring it when I see you and we'll see if it works for you. It's very pretty.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I would love a pink T shirt. That sounds great. I'll try it.

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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