Introducing: The Deep Dive

Summary

Podcast Title: Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Episode: Introducing: The Deep Dive
Release Date: July 29, 2025
Host/Author: Gretchen Rubin / The Onward Project

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Introduction

In this inaugural episode titled "Introducing: The Deep Dive," Gretchen Rubin collaborates with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael from "The Deep Dive" to explore a variety of intriguing and humorous topics. The episode blends personal anecdotes with light-hearted discussions, offering listeners a blend of entertainment and insightful reflections.

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Sharks and Personal Anxieties

Jessica and June delve into their fears and fascinations with sharks, blending scientific facts with personal stories.

• Shark Behavior:
  Jessica discusses her sister Elizabeth Craft's constant "shark attack watch," highlighting the rarity yet ever-present nature of shark encounters. She shares, “Most of the shark attacks are curiosity bites... they're just testing the waters” (04:04).

• Personal Anecdotes:
  June humorously relates her efforts to avoid shark-related fears, mentioning, “Once they chomp down on that gristle, it doesn't feel good to them” (07:03). This leads to a broader conversation about maintaining physical fitness as a defense mechanism against fears.

• Humorous Interactions:
  The hosts share amusing exchanges with their friends and family about sharks, emphasizing the often exaggerated fears compared to the actual behavior of these marine creatures.

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Crows: The Urban Mafia

Transitioning from marine to avian predators, Jessica and June explore their unsettling experiences with crows in Vancouver.

• Aggressive Behavior:
  June reports a surge in crow attacks, describing how crows have been dive bombing people’s heads, leading her to reconsider her outdoor activities: “I am a water person... I can no longer experience the outdoors because I won't leave” (22:17).

• Crow Intelligence and Social Structure:
  Jessica highlights the intelligence of crows, noting their ability to recognize faces and communicate within their groups. She remarks, “They can say to each other, look, there's the bearded man. They can communicate” (23:34).

• Humorous Mafia Comparison:
  The conversation takes a comedic turn as they liken crows to the Mafia, discussing how crows exhibit territorial and retaliatory behaviors reminiscent of organized crime syndicates.

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Dinosaurs: Reflections on Size and Extinction

The hosts transition to discussing dinosaurs, pondering their immense sizes and eventual extinction.

• Biological and Environmental Factors:
  Using insights from ChatGPT, June breaks down reasons why dinosaurs grew so large, citing factors like bird-like lungs and high oxygen levels: “They had bird-like lungs, very large with air sacs. That kept them well oxygenated and lightweight for their size” (44:03).

• Personal Reflections:
  Jessica connects the discussion to human self-limiting beliefs, questioning societal constraints: “What are our self-limiting beliefs? How big can we be? How strong can we be?” (47:14).

• Evolutionary Arms Race:
  They explore the concept of an evolutionary arms race, where predators and prey continually evolve to outdo each other in size and strength, ultimately leading to the dominance of larger species like dinosaurs.

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Personal Growth and Self-Limiting Beliefs

Drawing parallels between dinosaur evolution and personal development, Jessica and June encourage listeners to overcome self-imposed limitations.

• Breaking Constraints:
  June emphasizes the importance of shedding societal constraints to realize one's full potential: “How big could we be if we are to lift those up?” (49:45).

• Fitness and Empowerment:
  The conversation ties physical fitness to personal empowerment, with June showcasing her commitment to strength training as a metaphor for overcoming fears and limitations.

• Memory and Storytelling:
  Jessica positions herself as the "village elder," holding onto stories and memories, underscoring the value of personal history in shaping one's happiness and growth.

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Notable Quotes

• “Most of the shark attacks are curiosity bites... they're just testing the waters.”
  —Jessica St. Clair (04:04)

• “Once they chomp down on that gristle, it doesn't feel good to them.”
  —Jessica St. Clair (07:03)

• “What are our self-limiting beliefs? How big can we be? How strong can we be?”
  —Jessica St. Clair (47:14)

• “How big could we be if we are to lift those up?”
  —June Diane Raphael (49:45)

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Insights and Conclusions

This episode masterfully blends humor with profound reflections on fears, societal constraints, and personal growth. By juxtaposing the behavior of sharks and crows with human emotions and limitations, Jessica and June offer listeners a fresh perspective on overcoming personal challenges. The discussion on dinosaurs serves as a metaphor for human potential, encouraging individuals to break free from self-imposed boundaries and strive for greater heights in their personal and professional lives.

Listeners are left with a compelling message: much like dinosaurs thrived by adapting and growing, humans too can achieve remarkable things by challenging their limits and embracing continuous growth.

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Conclusion

"Introducing: The Deep Dive" sets the stage for a series characterized by candid conversations, humor, and insightful explorations of both personal and universal themes. Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael invite listeners to join them on a journey of self-discovery, empowering them to design happier and more fulfilling lives.

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Timestamp Reference:

For ease of navigation, notable quotes are referenced with their respective timestamps in the transcript, formatted as MM:SS.

Transcript

[Gretchen]

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[Jessica St. Clair]

Hello.

[Unknown]

Today we're excited to share the latest episode from one of our favorite podcasts and another Lemonada show, the Deep Dive with June Diane raphael and Jessica St. Clair. I have had the pleasure of being a guest on this show and these two women really know how to make me laugh.

[Gretchen]

Each week, these comedians and best friends take a deep dive into their real lives and discuss a wide range of issues. In this episode, Jessica is on the lookout for sharks and June is avoiding crows. Plus, there's chat about big dinosaurs, white on white cars, oral historians, and Jessica and June's experiences working for the Mafia. Not sure exactly what that means. Listen now to find out.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Hi, I'm Jessica St. Clair.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And this is the Deep Dive. We're about to do what women have done for centuries. We're crowding around the fire with our generous haunches. We got babies hanging off our tits and we're gonna share with you our fears.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's right.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Our joys, our tips on how to stay alive.

[June Diane Raphael]

Now, Jess, we are heeding a call that no one has made.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Not a soul. But you're invited to listen. Absolutely.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because we make one promise and one promise only. We will not Google a thing.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Cause frankly, we're too damn tired.

[June Diane Raphael]

Please get ready to go on the Deep Dive. Hello, Jessica. Hello, June. I feel like it's. I don't know, time is moving in the strangest of ways.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Is it Christmas? Is it July? I've been waiting. I've been packing to go on a trip that's not for another month. So I don't know. I'm in a liminal space right now.

[June Diane Raphael]

It is very hard to be alive right now. I feel so assaulted by information. I feel so overwhelmed and sad sometimes by what's incoming. Great. And the news. However, I want to just be with you and talk about things right now because I'm happy to see you.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I'm so happy to see you too. And I'm not sure why this is regulating my nervous system. And I don't think it's for everybody, but every June, July and August, I am on a constant shark attack watch. Really. I don't know why, but my feed, and I didn't even click on anything this time. My feed gets flooded with just packing lists for France and shark attack, local shark attacks. And I find it really comforting to.

[June Diane Raphael]

To know that sharks are attacking.

[Jessica St. Clair]

To read the stories of really 99% survival, people fighting back sharks.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's wonderful.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah. Most of the shark attacks are curiosity bites, which are, you know.

[June Diane Raphael]

Episode title, note to self. Okay. Cure. Now, how do they know that? Also, like, there's some things. Because I want to talk to you about crows and I'll talk to you about it in a second. Sure. But there are things about animals that. That people state as facts and sometimes like, now, how do you know a shark's curious?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, because if they're not curious, they just want to eat you. They will. So like a man's on his surfboard. It always happens where it's. They're on their surfboard often, right where my brother surfs, and they'll feel a bump under their surfboard and then like a bite, a nibble on their surfboard. But if it wanted to, it could click clean, bite through his surfboard and his leg, and then they swim away.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I guess it's not that different from dogs and the sort of warning shots fired, which is just like, I don't know, his curiosity. That's more like, I'm gonna growl at you so I don't have to bite you, motherfucker.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, I don't mean to come in in the opposite way. I've just done so much research, and I will say that mostly they're trying to see, is this food? Is this a seal? No, I move on. Is this edible? It's more like when you taste a little cracker and you think to yourself, do I wanna eat more?

[June Diane Raphael]

It's like, that's what I'm wondering, though, is like 99%. So that's implying, like, they're just biting the surfboards. Like they haven't broken any skin. Because if they broke skin, I would assume they'd know this is food.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Actually, we're not food to them, though. We are.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, say more. Say more. We don't have enough fat on us. It's the Ozempic craze. It's moving us on the. We don't.

[Jessica St. Clair]

We really don't. And what's so amazing is I always text my brother, like, with everything going on right now, you know, in the world and our family, like, please, I cannot handle you getting eaten by a shark. And he is always like, just, you know, like, great white sharks are misunderstood. Like, I just. I'm having dinner with one right now. Like, they're very different people. Like, he's always like, yeah, just like, I surfed next to one and we connected. Like, he's always protecting them and their image. And I really am like, that's exactly the type of person that's gonna get chomped by one. You know, I just am like, I just don't wanna wake up to that call, because I feel like that could probably be avoided, you know? But anyway, yes, of course, sometimes they chomp down on your leg or something, but they're really. They're not gonna eat you. They don't want to eat you. Once they chomp down on that gristle, it doesn't feel good to them. It.

[June Diane Raphael]

God, if that's not motivation to keep hitting the gym and to keep on upping my weights and stay, you know, stay in my bones. Although I'm actually worried I'm creating so much muscle. That's gotta taste good.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I don't think it does. They're looking for fat.

[June Diane Raphael]

They're looking for fat. Blubber.

[Jessica St. Clair]

They're looking for blubber. Yeah. So anyway. But that's. I don't know why that's right. But then, of course, I sent that to Lennon, like, oh, back on my shark attack. And she's like, I'm at a vacation at the beach. Don't send that to me. Don't send that text to me.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I also feel like. I think I've been told that climate change is why there seems to be more. Now, that's upsetting.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, they're juveniles, especially, are coming closer to shore because it's warmer.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's something that I honestly can't take on as a concept. Like, I have to go in the ocean. I am a water person. Yeah, of course.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I mean, it's not stopping me. I was in the ocean.

[June Diane Raphael]

Great. Wonderful. Cause. And I have to kind of put it away. I gotta put sharks away as an idea or not.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I mean, here's the thing. It so rarely happens. I was in the beach. I was in the water with Laguna beach this weekend and I saw a bunch of very attractive lifeguards. There's so many attractive young people there in thong bathing suits. And these were in the red, the signature red Baywatch. But they all started. There was a commotion and they all started running. And I said, ooh, ooh, baby, maybe it's a shark. Like, I'm excited by it. I don't. I would have loved if there was a shark sighting.

[June Diane Raphael]

I would love you to. I know we keep talking about my best friend Julie, and she did listen to the podcast. I don't know if it was last week or. We did a half an hour. You did? Okay, great. But I don't know if you know this about her, but no one's more scared of sharks than her.

[Gretchen]

Now.

[June Diane Raphael]

It is her greatest fear. It is her greatest fear in life. It is her greatest fear in life that she encounter a shark. Really? Yes. Where did it start? I think it started with Jaws. And in fact, when we went to go see Jurassic park or Jurassic World, whatever the new world is. Jurassic World this weekend. And there was a preview for like it's 50, 50 year anniversary, I think, of Jaws. Wow. And so there's a re release to celebrate. And I was like, paul, we have to take the kids to go see this in the theater. Like, yeah.

[Jessica St. Clair]

So many good jump scares. That's all it is. It's a movie about jump scares me.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's a brilliant, brilliant movie about what we don't see and what lurks beneath and the fear of not being able to see. It's so fucking well done.

[Jessica St. Clair]

But anyway, and considering that mechanical shark broke so many times, no knowing what.

[June Diane Raphael]

They went through, didn't have in terms of like production, CGI value, cgi, all of it. It is a masterpiece. So I said, we gotta go see. He's like, I'm not really. I don't really want to unlock that fear in the kids. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I remembered Julie and I was like, yeah, it could absolutely trigger a lifelong fear of your life.

[Jessica St. Clair]

That is the truth. I say to Bebe all the time, do not watch a scary movie because you don't know what your Silence of the Lambs is.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's right. Now, Sam, the other night he woke up in bed with us and he said, I had a terrible nightmare. I'm really, really scared. And I said, of what? And he said, megan.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, I was just about to Bring up Megan.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Cause Bebe watched half of Megan through the slats in the. On a plane. Oh, fuck. And she goes, oh, I'm not worried about it. She goes, I'm not worried about dolls coming to life and killing me because I don't believe in them. Now, I unfortunately watched through the Slats companion.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, I haven't seen that.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Where he like gets a fuck fuck AI doll.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, no thank you.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And then she fucking turns on everyone and they keep shooting her in the face. And it doesn't stop her. She doesn't go, well, she ends up with the house and the convertible. She kills the whole. She kills everybody.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that I'm interested in. Actually, I do like scary movies. But the thing is. So as I said, Sam, I. You didn't see Megan. And then I realized during Jurassic. Oh, damn it, Jurassic World there was a preview for Megan. And this is a fucking kids movie now. During Jurassic World, I held his eyes. Or maybe it was F1. I don't. Whatever movie we saw, we've been seeing all the summer movies. It's been so much fun.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Of course, it's a Blackbuster summer for this year. It's always fun. It's so fun.

[June Diane Raphael]

We love going to see a movie.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I know you do.

[June Diane Raphael]

We are single handedly keeping our industry afloat. Okay, So I put my hands over his eyes. But even through talk about the slats, it's the sound. Even through yes. And again to reference Jaws, it was what he didn't see, but heard her voice. Oh, God, it'll haunt you. Yeah. And then the next night he said, can I sleep with you? And I said, why? Because I'm thinking about Megan. I said, yeah, you can.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah, well, you know what your husband did to me once, which was I'll never forgive. And I'll. I'll post it on the Academy. But that motherfucker had me on his early twitch, you know, back in the days where he was a pioneer of twitch.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, he was one of the founders, I think, truly.

[Jessica St. Clair]

He had me on with Rob Huebel. And they said, hey, it wasn't even Halloween. Oh, I wanna do a little game, a guessing game. I said, oh, okay, I'm game for anything. And then he showed me pictures of every pinhead, Freddy Krueger, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. He wanted to know, do I know who it is? And what did they do? And do they come to you?

[June Diane Raphael]

Sorry, no.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And he thought, and you know, even Huebel, even Rob was like, oh, I didn't realize you were so scared. And he's delighted by it. He really is. He's delighted about torturing me. And, you know, he gets a sick.

[June Diane Raphael]

Thrill out of scaring women, women that he cares about.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah. He would just go, it's Pinhead. It's just Pinhead. Like, I still don't know what Pinhead does, but, like, he's like, oh, don't worry. It's Pinhead. Your old pal Pinhead. He kept saying. I was like, fuck you. And I really. People don't get it. Like, on. How did this get made to her? Like, Jason started doing that, and I was screaming, you know? And then a really nice audience member in the balcony, like, asked a really thoughtful question, but then ended it with, it rubs a lotion on the back like that. And I screamed, I'm gonna punch you in the dick, sir. I'm gonna come up there, punch you in the dick. People don't get it. So Sam is built like me. He is not built like Paul. He cannot handle it.

[June Diane Raphael]

And Gus is built like Paul because the other. When we were going to see F1, we went to see it at Man's Theater in Hollywood. So much fun. What a beautiful, historic theater. And as we're getting out of the. Like, we're walking now on Hollywood Boulevard. When am I ever walking on Hollywood Boulevard? Is it going through Times Square? So we get down the stairs and we turn to, like, walk on Hollywood Boulevard toward our Chinese men's theater and fucking the clown. Pennywise. Pennywise is standing there.

[Jessica St. Clair]

No.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I know it's an audio medium, but everyone just pluck your. The finger that's next. Your pointer finger out and turn it around so your palms up. Everyone do this with me. And then just slowly gesture to someone to come closer to you. And that's what he did to me. Okay. And I was like, nobody look at him. Nobody look at him. And Gus walked over to him and smiled.

[Jessica St. Clair]

No, see, that's. And that's. He's built just like Paul. He is now for some reason, and we still don't know why. And I really wish we'd taken them up on it. The producers of it wanted to buy our movie about going traveling back in the olden days and falling in love with an olden days person. Our time travel. And we went. And we were like, that's crazy. Why? And during the meeting, there were so many tiny it dolls peering. Cause there's so much it merch. And so I would be trying to focus on the meeting, and then I would see a little it peering behind a trash can. And, like, peering out from the bushes. And I did ask him, I said, what? Are you ever scared on the set? And the guy looked at me like, first of all, what are you talking about? Like, I produce harmony. No. And he said, jessica, just so you know, when that. There's a scene in it, I guess, where the door handle is jiggling, like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Cause.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Cause it's trying to come in. He goes, there's a PA behind there munching on flaming hot Cheetos and jiggling.

[June Diane Raphael]

His Instagram and jiggling the door.

[Jessica St. Clair]

That's his job. He's like, so, no, I'm not scared.

[June Diane Raphael]

So I'm just gonna tell you, though, that, you know. I don't know if you know this, but Paul got an audition to play the new Pennywise in this past version of it.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Wait, play Pennywise?

[June Diane Raphael]

Pennywise. Okay. And I. He's like, can you read with me? And this was just.

[Jessica St. Clair]

No, no, no.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I was like, oh, yeah. I didn't really understand what we were doing at first. And then I. Some greet. He prints out the sides for me, prints it out for himself. And then I'm looking at it, and the scene we have to read is motherfucking Pennywise peering out of, like, the bottom grates of a subway, like, lifting up the. Like, you know, in New York, there's like this. Like, you can hear the subway. He's peering out and talking to probably a little girl. And I get two lines in. And I just said, fuck this. I ain't doing this shit. And you're not auditioning for this. And he was like, come on.

[Jessica St. Clair]

No. And he thought it was fun. That's the thing. And he's smiling. Come on, June.

[June Diane Raphael]

I can't do this. I won't read this with you. You won't audition for Pennywise peering out.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Of a subway grate and talking to a little girl and trying to get her to come down here so she can kill her. What's wrong, Jude?

[June Diane Raphael]

Sick stuff. Jessica, I have to tell you about the crows.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I can't wait.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know why. Is it spooky season? I don't know what's going on.

[Jessica St. Clair]

No, I don't want it to be. It's summer.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's summer. But this is a very spooky episode. I gotta tell you about the crows that I'm dealing with. Please. And I'm gonna tell you what's going on with them in just one second. We'll take a quick break.

[Gretchen]

Gretch, being a TV writer, I know so Many people who travel for work for weeks, sometimes months at a time when they're shooting on location. I have a lot of great memories from being in Vancouver for weeks on end shooting a pilot. I love being in Vancouver. It's so gorgeous. Very different from la. Really fun. But when TV people are away, their houses and apartments just sit there in LA with nobody using them. Well, this year as we are all trying to work smarter and not harder, I know people who are hosting their space on Airbnb while they're out of town. Otherwise the place is just sitting there empty. It honestly feels like a no brainer way to get a little more spending cash.

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[June Diane Raphael]

So, Jess, there are crows in Vancouver, okay, that have been. And I know this because my spray tan artist came up to my apartment a few weeks ago, probably about a month ago, and she goes, oh my gosh. I just. Have you seen all the attacks down there?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Wait, no.

[June Diane Raphael]

What are you talking about? And she said, oh, the crows are dive bombing people below you.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Why? Why?

[June Diane Raphael]

What the fuck are you talking about? She said, yeah, they're attacking people's heads. Why are they running?

[Jessica St. Clair]

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

[June Diane Raphael]

You gotta be mother. I won't leave this apartment again. It's a fucking series wrap on me. I'm done. I'm done.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Why are they trying to attack people?

[June Diane Raphael]

So apparently it's like, I don't know if it's mating season, I don't know what's going on, but they're I think aggressive at this time of year and are either protecting their. Something's happening with them. And I said, the last thing I Want to fucking do is interact with a crow?

[Jessica St. Clair]

No.

[June Diane Raphael]

And she's like, yeah, it was really spooky. Like, some people are walking with umbrellas.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, I would. I wouldn't even. I would have somebody, like, take me in an armored car.

[June Diane Raphael]

Thank you, Jazz.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I don't want to be attacked by.

[June Diane Raphael]

A. I said, I'm never going outside. And I'm actually really upset. It's so, so beautiful out. I can't go. I can no longer experience the outdoors because I won't leave.

[Jessica St. Clair]

How could you know that at any minute they could attack you?

[June Diane Raphael]

Are they here?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Are they just. I hope there's video of it. I hope it is.

[June Diane Raphael]

There is. I'll post it on the Academy. I said, are they just here? And she said, they're everywhere. I'm like, oh, my God. And so then I go to work the next day and mask the hair and makeup folks. My friend tells me that he experienced this. He experienced this in another place. He's like, yeah, I used to run with this other actor in the mornings, and there were crows dive bombing. And so he would wear. Get ready for this. He would wear his hat backwards so that the rim was on the back, and then put a pair of sunglasses in the back.

[Jessica St. Clair]

No, no, no. Create, like, a mask.

[June Diane Raphael]

So if they were gonna attack, they'd attack the back. I said, what in the are you talking about?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Oh, my.

[June Diane Raphael]

We're living in this world.

[Jessica St. Clair]

We are all deep state. Someone's keeping this information down. Like, I'm gonna be eyes up now about these. Thank you. Because there's a lot around here.

[June Diane Raphael]

And then another one of the makeup artists said, well, you know, they remember faces.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Oh, yeah. They can say to each other, look, there's the bearded man. They can communicate.

[June Diane Raphael]

How do we know that sharks are curious? How do we know that crows remember faces? I don't know.

[Jessica St. Clair]

They've done lots of experiments with crows. They are obsessed with knowing how smart crows are. I don't know why we're not harnessing it for any reason, but they study constantly how they are, like, the most smart animal, like, you know, in the world.

[June Diane Raphael]

I want to make a public service announcement. I know that a lot of you deep divers are going to start DMing me because you all are so quick on the draw. You start DMing me information. Like when I said that blonde men were silly billies. You start DMing me about the blonde men in your life and this and that. And I know what's going to happen is I'm gonna start pro advocates. I'm Gonna start getting tons of info about crows. And I'm excited to link now.

[Jessica St. Clair]

They do love to link. They love a link. They do. And it's always like, please share this with June. And I'm like, you think I'm gonna like actually have any kind of memory to share this with her? But they do share a lot of Neanderthal news with me, which is great.

[June Diane Raphael]

A lot of Neanderthal news comes in. Like, there's a lot. And some of it's so fucking wonderful. But on this particular subject, I am going to ask to stay in the.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Dark about the crow. Dark about what crows know and what.

[June Diane Raphael]

They do and what they can't do. Hold on one second. Jess, thank you so much. Have a great day. I am so sorry, Jessica. I have just, I just took a two second break, folks, because I had to. I had a smoothie being deliver. Love a dog, no straw.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, we'll be hearing about this on the deeper dive. Unfortunately, I had a lot of other topics, but now we're going to be hearing about this straw.

[June Diane Raphael]

To drink this viscous, it's a different.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Liquid without a straw. It's a different experience.

[June Diane Raphael]

Do I go get a spoon? This is absurd.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Oh, God.

[June Diane Raphael]

Anyway, what I wanted to tell you about the crows is. So then I was told again, don't want just going to share what I know and I'm very comfortable not knowing anymore. And what I was. I told the hair and makeup team, I said, I'm not going to be interacting with a crow. I don't want to know about crows. I'm done. And they told me that something had happened with a crow on a different set in Vancouver, that a crow was killed. Oh, God. And you said, and you said, I'm not upset.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Oh, wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

Now they also said that the other crows were out for blood.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Okay, So a crow had been killed by accident on a set and then the other crows came again.

[June Diane Raphael]

All of this information might be wrong. Yeah. But it came things in that order.

[Jessica St. Clair]

There will be blood and I.

[June Diane Raphael]

There will be blood I. And I'm at these studios I'm at so to know I'm both a target and my opponent apartment. Because there's a whole fucking nesting ground down there and they're coming after actors.

[Jessica St. Clair]

We have enough problems. The scarcity of roles, the shrinking industry, and now fucking crows want us dead. Like, I. I honestly can't.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like, I can't.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I can't take that on. Oh my God. The crows were like after them. I get that. Well, if they're so complex in their relationships and all of this. And, you know, BB and I tried to rescue a baby crow that was on our driveway, and it was like, let him go.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I said, I'm sorry to say.

[Jessica St. Clair]

It, but you know us. BB has jumped out of the car while it's moving to, like, check to see if a dog is, you know, not lost. So I called. Cause all of the crows were in this tree screaming like. Like that. So I was like, oh, my God, they don't know how to pick this sad crow up. And I called the aspca and they said that's actually how they teach their young to fly. They kick it out of the nest, and then they scream from the trees. Get up. They're screaming, get up to it.

[June Diane Raphael]

How do they know that those screams are get up. I mean, again, I know you're saying they do research. This just seems so specific. Listen, they're fucking nasty.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah, they're nasty. All right. Get up. Like, that's not nice. And also, like, in the time that it takes it to learn how to fly, like, it could be eaten very easily by something or run over. But that's how crows live. They live by their, like, this code. It sounds like they're like the Mafia.

[June Diane Raphael]

They're the fucking mafia.

[Jessica St. Clair]

They are.

[June Diane Raphael]

They are the Mafioso. And it's like, what did they used to say about the Black Hand or the Black Spot?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, you remember Treasure Island?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I'm trying to remember. In Brooklyn, it's like if you had. If there was like a print on your house or something, it meant that you were either protected or the mafia was gonna come for. It's like that level of. I don't know.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Remember when I worked for the mafia? The summer I worked for the mafia, it was so awesome.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, I also worked for the Mafia.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Wait, did we. We may have told these stories already, but my summer, I was hot. I was looking hot, too. It was like junior year summer. And I, like, was deeply tanned, and I was like, I got three weeks before I go back to school. Like, let's see what's up? And I, like, submitted myself as a temp, and I ended up as a receptionist at a loan shark business that was doing no loans. And it was me answering the phone. And then the driver, quote unquote, who was really the bodyguard, would sit and we'd chat, you know, chat about different things, this and that, the weather. And they love me. They loved me. And I love the women who worked there. You know, I don't know what they did all day again. They just like went to Pier 1 and like they didn't do anything. And then at the end of the summer, they said, we'd really love you to stay on. We love your energy. You know, you're a treat to have around the office. And I said. I said, I'm so sorry, I have to go back to school. And then they gave me $5,000 in cash in hundred dollar bills. And I had already been paid, you know, whatever it was. And I don't know to this day. Was that hush money? Was that. I think it was just honestly, like they really felt like I brought a lot to their company.

[June Diane Raphael]

Organization.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Organization. I was. And I look cute too. I look cute.

[June Diane Raphael]

They love to have an ex.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Someone cute.

[June Diane Raphael]

You should have been compensated for that. Listen, I. I'm not going to tell the story because I already. I know I already told it, but when I work for a company called Master Furniture, I'm almost positive that Master Furniture was up front, not a brand I've heard of. I was also answering the phone and people were screaming on the phones, trying to get in touch with the Master himself.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah, yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, and he was never available and was always telling me to never tell anyone that he was there. You know, it was all very, very, very strange. But what did. I want to tell you, Jessica, just to get back to the crows for a second. I just. The mafia crows. I just want to put the word out that I don't want to.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I'm gonna be looking. Yeah. And I'm gonna be looking over my shoulder. Cause I have seen a lot of them. And actually just lately I said, I don't like how they wait so long before they take off. When you're driving towards them, it's really like a fuck you flex that they do when you're driving. Cause you're like, I don't wanna run over this crow. And you won't. But they'll take their goddamn time. And Bebe and I had one, and I didn't think the crows liked meat.

[June Diane Raphael]

Meat.

[Jessica St. Clair]

That's right. But when Bibi was a child, there was a crow that would come across to the building, across, and it would bring. It had hidden a couple chicken bones and it would come and, you know, strip the meat off these chicken bones every morning. And we would watch it like it was a nature show. And I actually think that's really fucked up. I don't think they should be eating meat. I don't know if that's part of their diet, but it shouldn't be Especially chickens. Those are birds.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh God.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Oh God. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh God. It's enough.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And he would squirrel it away. It was like his secret chicken bone stash. Like I would hide, you know, like I hide some chocolates and stuff, you know.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I will tell you just to. I'm gonna move off birds because I don't like them. With one exception, and that's a hummingbird.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Of course.

[June Diane Raphael]

Every other bird can go to hell. I'm dead ass. Every other bird but a hummingbird can go to hell. Any ham basket. I know those are strong words. I don't care if they all go down. I really don't. Just.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I think our ecosystem would probably fall apart bit. Okay, okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't care for them.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Okay. They're dinosaurs. I mean, that's really what's troubling you?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. There's such a. Especially after seeing Jurassic World. There's such a close connection to those fucking raptors.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I worked for a bird watching channel, you know that? Anyway, go on, barf.

[June Diane Raphael]

I just want to say, you know, one of the. One of the statistics that will always fascinate me.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

We were sitting down to Jurassic World and I. I said to Sam, you know, there was a time where I could name almost every dinosaur.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Really. You had a dino obsession for a.

[June Diane Raphael]

Brief time in second grade. In second grade I knew every dinosaur. I remember the dinosaur book. Big pictures, the facts, little like pop out boxes and. Oh, yeah. And this one and that one. And bronchis are. I love the long necks. I wanted to slide down them. I. They look so friendly. Of course I liked the, you know, the ones, the veggies. Vegetarians.

[Jessica St. Clair]

The vegetarians, yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

But I stared at these things. Okay. And when they would put them in. In pictures with cars and people and I would stare at the disparity of size and just. I was so fascinated by them. And he said, do you still know the names? I said, no, I don't. I only know Bronchiosaurus, T. Rex and a raptor.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah. Those are the basic ninhas of the dinosaur. Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know any of the other ones.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And we start watching the movie and there's this fact that comes out early on in the film about how many years the dinosaurs roamed the earth. And it was like humans have been here for again. All of these statistics are wrong.

[Jessica St. Clair]

So few, comparatively. Yeah. But Dan, we picked Dan up from anesthesia. He had to get some procedure done. And he was still high on drugs and BB and I drove him home. And his whole thing was if They've been around for that long. They really didn't evolve that much. And he just kept saying, no dino clothes, no dino cars. He was so. He was so, like, almost like disparaging of them. And I was. But he goes, really, like, humans have been around for such a short time. Dinos ruled the Earth forever. What did they have to show for it? He would say. Kept saying, jeez.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, there's a wonderful statement in the movie that says dinosaurs lived on the Earth for 165 million million years. Yeah. Humans have been on the earth for 300,000.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

A tiny fraction. Tiny, tiny fraction of that time. And yes, to Dan's point, we have evolved, created technology. But. But will we go extinct? Will we burn our. Our species out ourselves?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, we will if you talk. Well, we will. This is the kind of. He will just be like, yeah, just like, aliens are here and they're in the ocean or whatever. He'll just be like, yes, of course we will. Our sun will burn out.

[June Diane Raphael]

Our sun will burn out. And we know that. But like, so it was just fascinating to. Yeah. They were around for so fucking long.

[Jessica St. Clair]

But what do they have to show for what I.

[June Diane Raphael]

What I genuinely. I guess I could look it up, but it's more just something I like to think about is like, those motherfuckers were so big.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And then they went extinct. All gone. Why didn't other giant animals ever.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, they did in the Ice Age. We had, you know, giant sloths and all of that.

[June Diane Raphael]

But, Jess, they weren't as big.

[Jessica St. Clair]

It's true. I don't know what was up with.

[June Diane Raphael]

The hype genuinely asking. I know there's scientists and, like, really? Who are like, you're a fucking idiot. But I'm like, what's up with the hype?

[Jessica St. Clair]

When I went. When I worked at the bird watching channel and I was fired, I had to do a story on the man who had discovered the skeleton with feathers. In Mongolia, they found a dinosaur that had preserved feathers. And that's how they knew that dinosaurs were most likely covered in feathers, at least a lot of them were, and that they were closely related to birds. And I showed up, I really believe, drunk. I went out until 3am to McManus, where we used to go after shows. I had had like 16 greyhounds. And I rolled in at 7am to the museum of Natural History. And the transcript of the interview is so embarrassing because I didn't do any of the research. It starts out with quote. And Dan will never let me forget this. I said, what's up with birds and dinosaurs? And he goes, what's up? I go, yeah, what's up with them? And it's like, it was so embarrassing. And this guy was showing me, like, here's the bones, and telling me all about, you know, bone. What was up?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I don't know. I didn't really pay attention. And the piece I did was terrible. But I have met in my day, many fossil hunters. I also.

[June Diane Raphael]

I did not know you.

[Jessica St. Clair]

For the Bird Child, I spent a good half a day with the woman who found the most intact T. Rex skeleton that exists. And she was just walking her dogs in the badlands, and she saw what she thought was a rock, and it turned out to be a T. Rex skull. She found it, and then they took it from her. North Dakota said, like, we own it. And she's like, but I found it. She was pissed about that.

[June Diane Raphael]

Um.

[Jessica St. Clair]

She was pissed about that. Now when you go to. There's so many dinos in Mongolia, and this is the stupidest episode, and I'm so sorry. I wish I could, like, reveal something, you know, vulnerable or connective that you guys could latch onto. But in Mongolia, there are so many dinos. And what this dude's deal is, he goes over there for, like, summers to dig and stuff, but he's like, there's so many dino bones on the black market that you have to get to the bones before these guys do. And then often pay a lot of money to steal to buy the bones back. Yeah, there's a bone. There's a. There's a bone black market that we don't know about. And I.

[June Diane Raphael]

Again, satanic artifacts.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And, like, I was supposed. And that's all I asked him about. I was like, so when you're like, do you ever get any, like, fights with these bone hunters? And he's like, that's not what this piece is about. We're about talking about. But it really was. That, to me, was fascinating because often they'll dig it up. They'll dig. I want to apologize.

[June Diane Raphael]

I didn't know who I was talking to, Jess, when I brought up dinosaurs, I didn't know you.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I've been in the bowels of the Museum of Natural History. What you see out there is a fraction of the bones they got going on in the back. And I was in the back, I saw the actual dino. That was the link. I saw it, and I probably touched it when I shouldn't have. I saw it. I saw what he found. But he would say, yeah, we were doing all this Work, you know, careful work with the bones. We go to sleep, we come back, bones are gone. You have to hire security. I mean, it's a whole thing. Cause they'll rip those bones right out of the, you know. So there's a lot that goes into it. Now that guy. I was fired pretty quickly after that. Cause it was so.

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, I'm saying like, scientists will listen to this. I guess I'll just ask you, do you know why? Do you know why they were so big? No. Because they certainly lasted a long time being that big.

[Jessica St. Clair]

They did.

[June Diane Raphael]

Was it to get. Cause I mean, there are trees now and like, was it.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Well, they had bigger trees back then. They had bigger trees back then. I guess. Obviously the environment supported it. Now, something I love about dads in general. If I asked Dan this, he will have an answer that sounds so assured, like. Well, obviously like the environment just supported won't necessarily be true, but it's comforting.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I'm gonna go ahead and ask ChatGPT and we'll see what she comes up with when we come back from this break. Can't foreign.

[Gretchen]

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[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

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[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. Well you were right. The environment just it turns out. Yeah. It says dinosaurs grew so big for several interconnected reasons, all related to their biology, environment, evolution. Can I just say this? They had bird like lungs, very large with air sacs. Okay. That they, it kept them well oxygenated and lightweight for their size. This system supported huge bodies without overheating. That's fascinating. They had high oxygen and CO2 levels that promoted faster plant growth. Oh, the Earth's atmosphere did rather. Which promote faster plant growth made it easier for animals to grow large. Right. They had stable body temperatures. They had a mix of warm and cold blooded traits. That's fascinating. They laid lots of eggs. That means they didn't need to invest years raising a single offspring like us mammals do.

[Jessica St. Clair]

So they were just like had more time to grow. Like it, like you've had more time while you're working, you've had more time to go to the gym.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's.

[Jessica St. Clair]

That's exactly right.

[June Diane Raphael]

Now will I get to be the size of a dinosaur? I don't know.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I mean, kind of like you're in prison. Like you get to keep going to that prison yard and doing your workouts. Cause I did, I said to Dan, God, her muscle tone is just really wonderful. She's had time.

[June Diane Raphael]

I've had the time. So this strategy of laying lots of eggs favors fast growth, larger body sizes as a defense against predators. And there's two.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Oh. Cause they gotta grow fast because they're out. Much like a crow. They're kicking them out of the nest. It's not like we're like teaching a brontosaurus how to eat. You're just like you're on your own and you better grow fast.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sounds like it. Two more reasons and this one's fascinating. The lack of size limits from mammal like constraints. Now maybe as a Neanderthal this will, this will resonate a little bit.

[Jessica St. Clair]

What does that mean?

[June Diane Raphael]

It says unlike mammals, dinosaurs had lighter bones, many of them hollow and possibly made carrying large weight more efficient. Limbs directly under the body rather than splayed out.

[Jessica St. Clair]

That makes a lot of sense.

[June Diane Raphael]

The last reason that that's I didn't know we had mammal like constraints. And now it's all I can.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah, I have a lot of constraints.

[June Diane Raphael]

I have a lot of mammal like constraints going on here. The last reason. So fucking dumb.

[Jessica St. Clair]

This episode is dumb. We should just scrub it from the feed. Nobody cares. Okay? There's such a good.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. Sometimes chatgpt just nails it. The last reason is the evolutionary arms race. Large size could be an advantage for both predators to dominate their prey and herbivores to avoid being eaten, creating a feedback loop of bigger and bigger species. So in short, dinosaurs were big because they could be.

[Jessica St. Clair]

They could be. Well purred. They could be. They could be. And I really think something for us to think about is yes, we have limitations on our heavy bones and our mammal like traits. But again, like I said last week and it's really changed my thing. What are our limits? What are our self limiting beliefs? How big can we be? How strong can we be? Right. I was just thinking about Michael Patrick King on and just like that, the podcast with Matt McConkey which now is part of Garbage Sesh. But I was listening to the interview with Michael Patrick King about the first episode of season three. Now I am. I wait. I wait with bated breath for those episodes. I just love. I'm now in a gilded age Sex and the City double feedback loop.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, you're in the war.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Warm blooded, cold blooded.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Warm blooded, Cold blooded. Okay. I could do both. And I just love it. I love to be with my gals. And he was saying, you know, it's been fascinating because at 30, so the first series I was confronting at 34 years old, what people thought women should be married, got their shit together, not sleeping with people anymore. Of course that's changed a bit, but that's what I was confronting like these women against these societal constraints. And now they're in their 50s and there's a whole nother set of societal constraints.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's right.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Women shouldn't be sexually active in this way and like claiming their sexual. And they should be married and they shouldn't be, you know, coming out at that age anyway. So I just thought it's so interesting because we really are. We have so many limitations put on us just by society as women that how big could we be if we are to lift those up? Because we are in an environment that is promoting small. Even when we talk about our weights. I know I've been lifting those fucking weights and there is something. So now my feed is flooded with women in their 50s lifting weights and Looking fucking hot. But we're told, don't lift those big weights, you'll get too muscular. Why is that a problem? So, so you could defend yourself, perhaps.

[June Diane Raphael]

As somebody who, you know, I'm just gonna try to show you, like, oh, I know.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I'm looking at it.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Like, no, I'm looking at it. I'm looking at it.

[June Diane Raphael]

I just showed Jessica my guns. My guns. I am a woman who is preparing, I guess for battle.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah. For the Hunger Games, something.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I can't say enough about lifting.

[Jessica St. Clair]

It's strange how much it's strange.

[June Diane Raphael]

I will say my TikTok feed is flooded with, like, women talking about how they were diagnosed with early Alzheimer's. And I'm like, oh, he's so fucking panicked.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I'm like, God, oh God, oh, God, oh, God, oh God.

[June Diane Raphael]

And then the first comments. So, so many women are posting in the first comments of these videos. This is also the number one sign of perimenopause.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Oh, good. I'm telling you. And I'm like, oh, thank God.

[June Diane Raphael]

And it's so funny. And then under that comment, there's a million other comments like, oh, thank God. I was really scared. And I'm like, oh, we're all. I am. I. Yeah. I don't know what to tell you. Like, I don't remember. I don't remember last week's episode.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I find it charming.

[June Diane Raphael]

Glad you do.

[Jessica St. Clair]

It's just, I'm just monitoring everybody, you know, it's like everybody in my life doesn't remember anything, so I just have to, like, be just on it, you know?

[June Diane Raphael]

And it's so interesting that you are sort of the village kind of historian in a way.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I am. I hold all of Jason Mandukas, his memories from college.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I tell his own life to him like he's watching a movie. This isn't a joke. I don't know why he doesn't have any CD rom. Like, I am like, remember that special time we had, Jessica, I really appreciate.

[June Diane Raphael]

It because I'm also looking to you to. Well, to know what happened last week, obviously, but also just in general to hold. You are the village elder who's holding our oral history. Like, we really need you.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I am like, I'm the one that's going to remember. I remember so many details about my friends. Like that. Like, I remember that when Danielle, we were talking. I got to see Danielle two days in a row. One day we had like a two and a half hour lunch where I got to look at every single picture of her European vacation. Every single one. I love. One thing about me is I love looking at people's pictures of their vacations. And I wish that wonderful quality. I wish we had the time back where people would come home and do a slideshow for their neighbors. Like, I. I'm not joking. I'm like, please send me pictures. Where are you?

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, when Gus went on his field trip, his field trip, his fifth grade, like, big trip away, we did have a sideshow for my. My sister and her husband, and, like, just went through all of his pictures.

[Jessica St. Clair]

That is. I love it. How am I gonna know that? You know, she took a water taxi at night through Venice. That's how it started, you know? So anyway, I got to see her then.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's a wonderful idea.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah. And then the next day. Cause her daughter's at camp, she said, I'm just gonna be around the corner. And I was like, oh, my God. And I ran in, and that was just. And Dan said, if you've just seen a friend for two and a half hours, you have another hour and a half to two hours in you.

[June Diane Raphael]

I said, oh, of course.

[Jessica St. Clair]

What? What? Literally? He was like, what do you mean you're gonna see her? I said, dan, if I could see my friends for three hours every day, I would. And I would never stop talking. I never would run out. So much has happened. I was trying to also explain to him. I'm like, so much has happened internally for me from 3pm yesterday till 11am today, like, to life. I have so much to say.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, of course.

[Jessica St. Clair]

But, like, what. What I love about old friends is, like, she'll just be like, well, that was. You know, and of course, that was back when I worked at City Crab. And I remember not only her working at City Crab, but also I remember her that she was, like, one of the first person to wear, like, she wore cutoffs and havaianas through the streets. And I even know that her boyfriend didn't like her wearing havaianas because her feet were so gross, so she had to wash her feet every day. I remember those type of details about.

[June Diane Raphael]

My God bless you again. You are the village elder, and it's not a role I would have necessarily cashed you in.

[Jessica St. Clair]

No. Nobody saw it coming.

[June Diane Raphael]

Holding on. Nobody saw it coming.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Nobody.

[June Diane Raphael]

You are holding on to the stories, and you are, and we will look to you. And I'm honestly, if this podcast serves, like, any purpose, it's probably to just hold our stories to put them down. You know, we used to write them on the walls. When we were.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I said to Bebe, I was like, bebe, you know, when you're. When you're older, you'll have all these stories of Amma's. And she goes, I'm never going to listen to this. What are you talking about? I'm never listening to these podcasts. No way. It's not true.

[June Diane Raphael]

She'll love it.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Or she won't. Or she won't. Or she knows. Who knows?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Who could say? Actually, I have no idea. Well, there are a couple facts about Danielle Schneider, but that we know and identify her with. But one is, of course, that she grew up in Florida, wore, like, fluorescent.

[Jessica St. Clair]

String bikinis, went to spring break when she was 16.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. Like, there's certain things about her that are just her. But one of the defining characteristics of Danielle is that she worked at City Crab. Now, I've never been to City Crab. I don't even. I have a vague idea of where it is in. I don't know.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I know exactly where it is. Union Square.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. It is such a important detail. Paul references it a few times. Like, oh, yeah, well, she had. Paul was working at Citigrab. It's like she worked there for a fucking decade.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Like, why? No, we all know about her. It was so cool. The rest of us had terrible, awful jobs doing whatever, but she. She would go to City Crab. And then yesterday, she was like, you know, if you work at City Crab, you'll never eat oysters again. And because she was so horrified to found out, I did 24 oysters. Shot them before my surgery. And she was like, you were playing with fire.

[June Diane Raphael]

You were.

[Jessica St. Clair]

She said things would happen in the City Crab bathroom that she said were just absolutely horrific and you will never. And that's a place you would think, if you're gonna get oysters, do it at a place like City Crab.

[June Diane Raphael]

But she's a chain, isn't it?

[Jessica St. Clair]

I don't know which you wanna use a chain. But there was. What people don't really understand is that in the early days of our. All of our friendships, we saw each other from across crowded rooms. We were not. I just knew of Danielle's job at Citicrab, and I built a life for her around that, of course.

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, it's the same way that, like, I remember when Casey and I took you out for a drink and you told us the story, and you were on a. You said you were on the. An elliptical machine at the gym that morning or something like that.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And so I built a sports club.

[June Diane Raphael]

New York Sports Club. I built a story of you, like, going every morning to an elliptical machine and, like, living this.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah, like. Like a wellness life. Like, adult life. Wow. Yeah. What you did know is, like, I had been moving so slow. It turned off, shut off six times. I probably just, like, spaced out and disassociated. Like, in the gym, in the locker room. Yeah, like. But we built these stories about each other. Lore.

[June Diane Raphael]

Part of your lore. Now, unfortunately, we do have to wrap.

[Jessica St. Clair]

It up, but unfortunately.

[June Diane Raphael]

Danielle, I'm realizing, texted me the other day and was, like, asking me if I leased my car and how many miles per year were on it. And you never wrote her back?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Sadly, no.

[June Diane Raphael]

I wrote her back, but I sadly said, I don't know.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I don't know either. I said, in fact, I didn't write her. I told her I would check my odometer, but I'm not sure how many.

[June Diane Raphael]

Miles are on my lease. She's clearly trying to get this information. And I'm like, I did. I. She didn't write me back after that and wasn't like, oh, thanks anyway.

[Jessica St. Clair]

It was just like, well, now you've been. You've been rendered somebody who is not worthy. And I then broke the news about your car. White on white.

[June Diane Raphael]

Would she say she hasn't arrived yet?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Honestly, to be honest, she looked horrified. She said how she couldn't. Just like, when I told her that I did 24 oysters and then was drunk. When I showed up for my surgery, she was. Looked equally horrified. Like, how?

[June Diane Raphael]

For those of you who don't know. Cause it happened on the deeper dive. But I shared that I was getting a new car. White exterior, white interior, and it seemed sent shock waves.

[Jessica St. Clair]

People don't. Still don't know what to do.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And is it really happening to me? I don't believe it will happen.

[June Diane Raphael]

I've also, like, been kind of looking at cars and trying to see other examples in the wild.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I've never seen it. It's a unicorn.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I don't see it out there. So it's like I can't even really look at it. But I've had several moments where I'm like, june, like, change the fucking.

[Jessica St. Clair]

No. Because I had to build.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I'm like, just change it. But there's something in my body that's like, no, I want to see.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I want to see what it requires.

[June Diane Raphael]

Limits.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Talk about limitations.

[June Diane Raphael]

Dinosaurs were huge. Because they could be.

[Jessica St. Clair]

What will this white car unleash in you? I am actually scared. Cause you said you Announced last week. You're gonna become more judgmental and that's already. We're already starting a baseball.

[June Diane Raphael]

Thank you for remembering that, Jess. I forgot it.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And now we're getting into a white car with white. A white on white. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what that is. You know who would drive a white on white is Seema from. And just like that. Absolutely. She gets driven.

[June Diane Raphael]

But if she were to drive, you've.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Got Seema energy first for sure.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow, thanks. You do well again, I don't know. I don't have it yet. But believe me, energy, believe me, once I get it, I will be reporting.

[Jessica St. Clair]

But live into it. Don't get the white on white thinking I'm gonna ruin it. What if you become one of those people that care takes your car? Well, a lot of self help life coach gurus say the way you keep your car is the way you keep your life. And my car is so bad that I had to put down a towel for my friend Molly to sit on the driver's seat to drive to Laguna. It was like embarrassing.

[June Diane Raphael]

I have grown into keeping my car, you know, nice. I like a nice. Of course, who doesn't? But like I will get it washed and I will. There's an extra spends. Honestly the biggest concern I have is it's all electric and I'm like, am I going to keep it charged?

[Jessica St. Clair]

That feels like the biggest hurdle. You can do it. You can do it.

[June Diane Raphael]

The car I'm in now is half and half. So I can always get gas if I need to.

[Jessica St. Clair]

But stop, stop limiting yourself.

[June Diane Raphael]

But that, that feels. Yeah. So it's like the money I'm saving on gas though I seem to be putting back into the car to just keeping it at a baseline of sort of cleanliness. We'll see. Jess, this is, you know, my. This is a sort of a soft launch. We will be hard launching the white on white car very soon and I will be sharing my journey.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I'm really curious about this year being the year of no limits, a limit, limitless.

[June Diane Raphael]

Limited. Yes. I also. Why the fuck not?

[Jessica St. Clair]

Why the not?

[June Diane Raphael]

Let's end with, you know, just like thinking about how big those dinosaurs were.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yeah. Because they could be.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because they could be. And I want to really think about that. And, and of course next week you'll remind me that we talked about that. That this week. Yeah. And I'm the keeper of her story.

[Jessica St. Clair]

That it is yours, apparently.

[June Diane Raphael]

Love you guys.

[Jessica St. Clair]

I love you guys.

[June Diane Raphael]

And of course Jess and I are not Done with the day. We are heading on to the Deeper Dive.

[Jessica St. Clair]

Yep.

[June Diane Raphael]

So for all of you deep divers who have had want to take some curiosity bites out of the Deep Dive Academy, we are offering a special summer treat for you. If you use Code summer, you get 50% off your first month at the Deep Dive Academy. Again, that's code summer. For 50% off your first month at the Deep Dive Academy, head to thedeepdiveacademy.com to enroll there. We have a weekly live show with me and Jessica where we get to interact with you all called the Deeper Dive. It's so much fun. We are having the time of our lives and we'd love you all to join us with code summer for 50% off your first month at the Deep Dive Academy.

[Jessica St. Clair]

And we have a huge last week we announced it in June we have a huge freshman class.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's exciting.

[Jessica St. Clair]

It's very exciting. It's a great time to be alive. And we are going to be. This will be our year in the academy. Our word is limitless.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Code summer. For 50% off your first month at the Deep Dive Academy, head to thedeepdiveacademy.com to enroll. Jessica, I love you. We'll see you all next week. All right, bye guys.

[Gretchen]

Let's go diving deep. Let's go on the deep dive.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Gretchen]

No secrets will we keep. It's June dancer going deep.

[Jessica St. Clair]

How deep can you go? Oh, really deep.

[Gretchen]

Let's go of the deep dive. Let's go diving deep.

[June Diane Raphael]

The Deep Dive is produced by Lemonada Media, Jessica Sinclair and June Diane Rayfield. Special thanks to Anne Geddes for her cover art and Lennon Parham for her sweet, sweet vocals. The best way to support us is to rate and review. Follow the Deep Dive wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.

[Unknown]

From the onward project.

[Gretchen]

If you're like us, you love discovering habits and systems that make life better. That's why we're excited to share this opportunity. It's perfect for anyone trying to design a career that works for them, not against them.

[June Diane Raphael]

Them.

[Gretchen]

Intuit, the maker of TurboTax and QuickBooks, is expanding its world class network of tax and bookkeeping experts. As an Intuit expert, you get to work virtually, select your hours and be part of a mission driven culture focused on helping customers prosper. Plus, you're supported by a team of experienced tax professionals who are there to help you succeed.

[Unknown]

They also offer Intuit Academy, a free and self paced training program through which you can advance your tax and bookkeeping career.

[Gretchen]

So if you're looking to design your future with a flexible and supportive tax career, visit intuit.comexpert to learn more or apply that's intuit.com expert.