More Happier: Are People Socializing More? Plus, Things That Have Achieved Perfection

Summary

Podcast Summary: "More Happier: Are People Socializing More? Plus, Things That Have Achieved Perfection"

Podcast: Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft
Episode Date: June 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively More Happier episode, Gretchen Rubin and her sister/cohost Elizabeth Craft dive into the shifting tides of post-pandemic socializing and the unique joy of things that have achieved ‘perfect form,’ from lunchboxes to tuxedos. Along the way, they share personal stories, reflect on happiness triggers, and invite listeners into their ever-curious, warm world of habits, list-making, and sisterly wit.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. What's Making Us Happier Right Now?

[02:22–13:48]

Elizabeth’s Social Season & The Bad Wine Party

• Elizabeth shares she’s feeling especially social lately, embracing what she calls her “social season.”
• She reminisces about a memorable dinner party where the group agreed, via text, to bring the “worst bottle of wine” each had lurking at home.
  • “Somehow in the back-and-forth texts we all decided to bring to the party the worst bottle of wine that we felt we had in our cabinet.” (Elizabeth, 02:45)
• The resulting bad wine taste test set a convivial, lighthearted tone for the night, complete with laughter, photo ops, and shared stories of how long some bottles had languished in cabinets (one for 15 years!).
• Takeaway: Activities or themes—especially spontaneous ones—add fun and togetherness, proof that joy doesn’t require fancy or expensive planning.

Memorable Quote:
“We got more out of those bad bottles of wine than we ever would have gotten out of, you know, a $100 bottle, for sure.”
—Elizabeth (05:45)

Gretchen’s Musical Revelation

• Gretchen discusses a recent insight about her musical tastes prompted by recalling the song "Shenandoah."
• She reminisces about traditional American (and English) songs from childhood music class — “Erie Canal,” “John Henry,” “Shady Grove,” etc.—and realizes she gravitates toward these old-fashioned genres, carols, Great American Songbook classics, and madrigals, rather than contemporary albums.
  • “Maybe I just have really old-fashioned taste in music.” (Gretchen, 09:25)
• She expresses gratitude for arts education in schools, crediting music class for these deeply embedded memories.
• Fun sidetrack: Gretchen considers finding a recorder at home to play folk tunes she learned as a child.

Memorable Quote:
“This is why we need arts classes for kids, because it makes a difference. … That was actually very significant in my growing up.”
—Gretchen (11:47)

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2. Things That Have Achieved Perfection

[17:53–26:48]

• Gretchen presents her ongoing, whimsical list of everyday items that she considers to have reached “perfect and final form.”
• The list includes: tuxedo, blue jeans, saltines, the postcard, Legos, gold hoop earrings or diamond solitaire earring, rectangular painting on canvas, lunchbox, talk show, Swiss army knife, liquor bottle, perfume bottle, album cover, and baked goods tin.
  • “There are things that seem to have almost stopped evolving because they are now perfected.” (Gretchen, 17:54)
• Discussion about how these items remain recognizable and iconic, despite variations—and why Lincoln Logs, for example, aren’t quite as “transcendent” as Legos in this regard.
• Elizabeth notes that some, like saltines, essentially have no meaningful variation.
• Both sisters reflect on the delight these “perfect” objects bring and how some (e.g., album covers, malls, talk shows) may be fading in relevance despite their iconic status.
  • “Being in its final and perfect form doesn’t assure its existence or its popularity.” (Gretchen, 34:25)

Notable Quotes:
“This would be a most Gretchen thing, is coming up with a list of things that have reached their final form.”
—Elizabeth (20:13)

“It is a very personal list. My list might be different from yours.”
—Elizabeth (26:41)

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3. The Socializing Phenomenon: Are People Going Out More?

[31:23–37:42]

• Elizabeth shares a perception that, post-pandemic, people are becoming more social again, citing her own increase in outings as well as examples like a new 7am women's hiking group that quickly became popular.
  • “I feel like people have been socializing more lately since COVID. … I am just feeling now that people are starting to ramp back up to where they were pre-COVID.” (Elizabeth, 31:23)
• They discuss how social invitations seem to more reliably turn into actual plans (versus endless text chains) and why this might be a local or widespread shift.
• Both consider personal factors — empty nesting, children growing up, work-from-home dynamics — and recognize it might be a broader trend or simply their current phase of life.
• The duo note that the energy for socializing now feels more integrated and less exhausting than in the immediate COVID aftermath.

Memorable Exchange:
“Part of it is, I think, for a long time, socializing and doing things felt draining. … Whereas now it feels more just incorporated into everyday life. And that’s a great thing.”
—Elizabeth (36:15)

“Maybe if everybody is ever so slightly more likely to agree, then you wouldn’t have to actually have that much change before all of a sudden, many, many more plans would be made. … That muscle is increased. It doesn’t feel like, ‘Oh, well, I went out one night this week. That’s my quota. I’m done.’”
—Gretchen (36:53)

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4. Listener Invitation & Community

[26:48, 37:42]

• Gretchen and Elizabeth invite listeners to submit their own “perfect and final form” lists.
• Gretchen expresses excitement about how her list could “get five times as long” with community suggestions.

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5. Quotation of the Week

[37:46–38:06]

“I am I, because my little dog knows me.”
—Gertrude Stein, Everybody’s Autobiography

Gretchen highlights the layers in this quote, nodding to how animals (and deeper relationships) help define our sense of self.

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Notable Quotes

• “It’s always fun to kind of have a theme or an activity… it doesn’t have to be expensive. In this case… we were all so happy to get rid of this bottle and to have it serve a fun purpose.”
  —Elizabeth (04:54)
• “Maybe I need to be like, that’s the kind of music that I like. Fire up the Great American Songbook and I will listen to it for a long time.”
  —Gretchen (09:25)
• “There are things that seem to have almost stopped evolving because they are now perfected.”
  —Gretchen (17:54)
• “Being in its final and perfect form doesn’t assure its existence or its popularity.”
  —Gretchen (34:25)
• “I feel like people have been socializing more lately since COVID… people are starting to ramp back up.”
  —Elizabeth (31:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Spontaneous Bad Wine Tasting Story: 02:39–07:19
• Gretchen’s Traditional Song Revelation: 07:23–13:48
• Perfection List & Discussion: 17:53–26:48
• Are People Socializing More? 31:23–37:42
• Quotation of the Week: 37:46–38:06

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Tone & Closing

Throughout, Gretchen and Elizabeth’s banter remains honest, playful, and thoughtful, highlighting everyday joys and encouraging listeners to reflect, connect, and share. The episode blends self-discovery, nostalgia, and practical ideas for making life a little more “happier.”

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For Further Exploration

• Listeners are encouraged to try a themed gathering, build their own “perfection” list, and notice shifts in their own social worlds.
• Gretchen’s “5 Things Making Me Happy” newsletter and other resources are available at GretchenRubin.com.

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Bottom Line:
The episode invites us to embrace whimsy in our social lives, recognize the quietly perfected pleasures in everyday objects, and reflect on how connection—whether with family, friends, or music—boosts happiness.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Hi Gretch.

[B]

Today we'll talk about items that have achieved perfection and whether a social trend is happening generally or is it just happening to Elizabeth. But first, something making us happier. Elizabeth, what is something that's making you happier?

[A]

Well Gretch, I am definitely in my social season right now. I feel like you are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Bit of a social butterfly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And went to the most fun dinner party the other night and somehow in the back and forth texts about the dinner party we all decided to bring to the party the Worst bottle of wine that we felt we had in our cabinet.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Something that had landed on our shelf that looked questionable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or had a weird name.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Or seemed obscure but not in a good way. Or we looked it up and saw it was like, $4. Not that I have a problem drinking $4 wine. I do it all the time. So what we did is we each brought a bottle, and then we did a taste test.

[B]

I love a taste test. I think people love taste tests. Taste tests are just fun.

[A]

Yeah. So it kicked off our evening. Before we ate, we went outside. My friend has this beautiful outdoor space. She got out a pitcher to pour the leftover wine. If you don't want to drink your whole sip, as you do at a real wine t. Okay. So we all drank little sips of the wine, and I don't think we finished any of the tastes. I mean, they were all very bad, really. And then we ranked them, and there were definite winners and losers. Although they were all bad, some were worse than others. And I think we had about five to try. And it was just so fun. We were all laughing and arguing over which was the worst bottle. And tell the story how we came

[B]

to have this bottle, how long you'd had it, how long.

[A]

One person said someone had brought it to his house 15 years ago, at least.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it was just fun. And it put everybody in a mood of conviviality, and it brought us all together at the beginning of the night, and then we could refer back to it all night. We had fun photos from our bad wine tasting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's just an example of. It's always fun to kind of have a theme or an activity you and I talk about, that it doesn't have to be expensive. In this case. What was great is that we were all so happy to get rid of this bottle and to have it serve a fun purpose. I'm not just going to toss out a bottle of anything, but this way, no, we didn't drink the whole bottle, but it served a wonderful purpose. It was used.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It was just so much fun.

[B]

And probably in a lot of cases, it was a gift in some way or, you know, swag or whatever. But the purpose of a bottle of wine is to make an occasion more enjoyable, either because you love the wine or you feel relaxed or whatever it is. And so it absolutely served its purpose, maybe better than a much fancier bottle of wine because so much was built around it.

[A]

That is so true, Gretchen. We got more out of those bad bottles of wine than we Ever would have gotten out of, you know, $100 bot for sure.

[B]

This is my issue. I don't know that I could even know that it was a bad bottle of wine. I feel like I have no discernment when it comes to wine. You could do the worst bottle that everybody says scored lowest, and then the hundred dollar bottle of wine or whatever. I'm not sure that I would really be able to tell. Or do you? Are you like, oh, Gretchen, you think that, but when you really did a taste test, you would see that you can pick up these distinctions.

[A]

Exactly. I mean, normally I am not discerning about wine. I'm wonderful. Wine is wasted on me. But in this case, you knew. You would have known it was not good because you would have said, ugh, I don't want to drink that.

[B]

Okay. That would have been good for me to be like, oh, I have a little bit of discernment. I'm not. I don't have a sophisticated ability to tell the difference, but I can tell that this is bad. That would be good. I would enjoy that. Well, what a fun idea. And it just sort of arose spontaneously out of the text. It wasn't someone's idea.

[A]

Someone was just kind of joked that they were gonna bring this awful bottle of wine they had. And then somebody else said, oh, well, then I'll bring this. And I said, oh, well, I'll bring this.

[B]

Oh, that's fine.

[A]

And then someone said, bad wine tasting.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's just ridiculous how much enjoyment we all got out of it. We were just giggling and having the best time.

[B]

Oh, that's so fun. Yeah, I love it. Love that idea. Whimsy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Conviviality and clearing clutter. What could be better?

[A]

Exactly. All right, Gretch, what about you? What is making you happier?

[B]

There's something specific making me happier, but it actually led me to a bigger insight about myself that's making me even happier as I'm thinking about it. So for some reason, and it wasn't that I heard it, because I just thought of it randomly. And, you know, I'm not a big music person, Elizabeth. I like songs, but I don't love whole artists and I don't really listen to music that much. That's just the truth about me. But I was thinking of the American traditional song Shenandoah. Oh, Shenandoah, I long to see you, which was a song. You know, when we were little, we would have music class. And now looking back on it, at the time, I didn't think anything of it, but looking Back on it, we sang a lot of traditional American songs. That's things like the Erie Canal, you know, like I Got a Mule and Her Name is Sal. John Henry, Shady Grove, these old American traditional songs. Or maybe some of them are English traditional songs like Green Sleeves or Scarborough Fair, which by the way, I still to this day can play on the recorder because we learned how to do that in fourth grade. And I just realized I love these traditional songs. Like I would sit and listen to a playlist of these traditional songs. I really love these traditional songs. And then I started thinking about songs like Mule Skinner Blues, which is a Dolly Parton song. And I was like, is that an American traditional song or is that a Dolly Parton original? And it just sounds like it would be a traditional song. I don't know. I was like, I should go look that up. And then I thought, you know, the thing about me is I like those kind of old songs. So if I had to say categories of songs that I really like, music that I really like more than just like the odd Beatles song here or, you know, whatever. I like carols. I love Christmas carols. I love these folk songs, this American traditional songs. I like the Great American Songbook. That's like Cole Porter type of thing. I do like that. I like madrigals, which is like ye olde kind of music. I think maybe I just have really old fashioned taste in music.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Maybe I need to be like, that's the kind of music that I like. Fire up the Great American Songbook and I will listen to it for a long time. Whereas if it's more contemporary music or even I'm talking like the last 50 years, I really just like a song. I don't like to listen to a whole album. I don't know, I'm just thinking through it. But I would listen to Christmas carols for an hour.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Whereas I wouldn't listen to an album for an hour.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Of somebody modern. Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

So you do something like, you know, when you're at your weekend house, play the Great American Songbook just in the background.

[B]

See, I'm going to experiment with that. A lot of times Jamie plays jazz. Now, this is one thing about the weekend house versus our regular house. We don't play music in our regular house, but Jamie regularly puts on music when we are there. And so I think that a. That's nice because it makes it a different environment and it's nice to have the two places feel distinctive. I think for Jamie it signals, oh, we're kicking back. This is relaxing. He finds it very relaxing to be there. He cooks more there, which is something he really, really enjoys doing. So he's really leaning into it. Growing up, his mother is extremely musical. So they played music. Yes, all the time. Jamie knows tons about music. He knows tons of lyrics. He listens to contemporary music. He knows tons about it. When are you listening to this music? Because I never hear you listening to it. But anyway. But he plays jazz and I'm not a huge fan of jazz. Cause I'm not a huge fan of most kinds of music. But I let him play it. But maybe I should say, hey, let's play the Great American Songbook. Or hey, let's play American traditional songs. Or at least if he's not there, he's out. I could listen to it and that again, it would create a different atmosphere for me. And because I always do feel sort of sad for myself that this is just something that other people take so much pleasure in.

[A]

I love this idea for you.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm thinking maybe I just went about it the wrong way. For me. Yes.

[A]

It's funny because I'm just imagining Jamie if you said, hey, let's play some madrigals while we kick back. But I could definitely see him being good with the Great American Songbook.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder what he would say about traditional songs. I don't know. I mean, that's one of the things about these playlists that can be generated is you don't have to. You know, back in the day you had to piece these things together yourself or buy a lot of albums, which maybe I don't want the whole album. I just want a cover of Shenandoah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, maybe I just really have really old fashioned taste when it comes to music. I don't know. I'm working that through it. But anyway, this all came from a memory of singing Shenandoah and in my third grade music class. And side note, this is why we need arts classes for kids, because it makes a difference. I remember all those songs. At the time, it wasn't like I was thinking, oh my gosh, this is valuable learning, penetrating deeply into my soul. But now looking back, I'm like, wow, I actually really do remember that. That was actually very significant in my growing up.

[A]

Well, Gretch, do you have access to a recorder? Because I would love for you to post yourself playing.

[B]

That is a great question. Because for a long time we had recorders lying around. Because again, my daughters. Why? This is a thing people do. I Don't know, but they had it. And I felt like every time I turned around, there was a recorder in my path. Yeah, but now that you're asking, have I seen a recorder in a while? I don't know. I will look because I would love to show off my recorder playing. Of course.

[A]

Yes. I would love to see that.

[B]

But, you know, now that I'm saying it, I don't know that it is Scarborough Fair that I'm playing. I think it's a different British, English folk song. Let me think there. Want to hide it a little? No. You know, it's a different song, same genre. I can do the tunes, but now I'm gonna have to try to remember the words hi Diddle. You know, it's one of those, like, High Diddle do songs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, now I'm gonna be on a mission to actually. This is somebody who loves to clear clutter. I should be able to immediately go to the place where, if we have a recorder, that is where the recorder is. I cannot truthfully say that I think I have 100% control over that aspect of our stuff, but I think I will be able to look for it. Okay. So stay tuned, Elizabeth, and maybe I will find that recorder and play that song.

[A]

Excellent.

[B]

Did Jack have to learn how to play the recorder?

[A]

I think he did. That sounds familiar.

[B]

You had to learn how to play the recorder.

[A]

Oh, yes, I did, but I could not pull out any tune. All right, Gretch, coming up, there's something you've been meaning to ask me. But first, this break.

[B]

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[A]

That's funny.

[B]

Anyway, so one of the things that I love and whenever I find something new to add to it, I feel extremely satisfied. Take great joy in it is a list of things that have achieved perfect and seemingly final form. There are things that seem to have almost stopped evolving because they are now perfected. Now, sometimes these things are not still widely used, and yet we recognize that they are perfected even though we're not really using them. And so my question is, A, do you agree with my candidates? And B, do you have any candidates of your own?

[A]

So list your candidates.

[B]

So again, these are things that have achieved a perfect and final form within margins. Like some of these things, they will have a little bit of differences, but the basic thing is the same. They are totally recognizably what they are, and they can't deviate from that much and still be what they are. The first a tuxedo, then blue jeans, saltines, the postcard Legos. Though actually maybe Legos have too many variations. Maybe they're still continuing to evolve. Anyway, we can discuss gold hoop earrings or maybe a diamond solitaire earring. I don't know. Are both candidates, is one the better choice? And these can be real or fake. Obviously they don't. Doesn't have to be a real diamond, real gold hoop earring. It's just like the idea of a gold hoop or a diamond soldier. A rectangular painting on canvas. The lunchbox. I love a lunchbox so much. The talk show, the Swiss army knife, the liquor bottle, the perfume bottle, the album cover and the baked goods tin. These are things where you're like, oh, my gosh, I love this thing as it is and I don't want it to come in any other way. Do not give me a tin perfume bottle or whatever somebody might do that would. Other than the way a perfume bottle is, which is a glass thing. We all know what a perfume bottle is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What do you think of these candidates? Are there any that don't belong there? Do you contest? Do you agree? What do you think?

[A]

Well, I love this list. It is very pleasing. Gretchen, it is very you to come up with this list. When we say, what's the least Gretchen thing? And it's I forget what. Your least Gretch. But this would be a most Gretchen thing, is coming up with a list of things that have reached their final form. I do agree with the list. Now, what's interesting to me, which you mentioned, is that many of these items have infinite variations, like blue jeans, Blue jeans, for instance.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Constantly change the style, constantly changes the length, whether it's high waisted, low waisted, mid waist, the wash of the jean. And yet everybody knows what blue jeans are.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I think they still fall into that category. Same with tuxedos. So I would include Legos, because I think Legos, no matter how many variations there are, fall in the same category of, you know, what a Lego is, regardless of the shape, size, color.

[B]

Now, the thing about Legos is you could say, okay, but what about this and what about that? What about Lincoln Logs? There's something about the Lego that to me seems transcendent in a way that all the. Even you say, can a lunchbox be transcendent? And to me there is a transcendent quality to the lunchbox in that it feels perfected. And I feel like Legos feel perfected in a way that Lincoln Logs do not feel perfected. I love Lincoln Logs. I'm completely charmed by Lincoln Logs. They do not seem iconic and elevated in the way that a LEGO does.

[A]

I agree with you. Also, I Maybe part of it is that many of these things do have variations. The only one of this that doesn't have a variation is actually the saltine. Like, I can't think of any other saltine except for the square cracker.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, that's a saltine.

[B]

You can get it without salt. It's saltless saltine and unsaltine.

[A]

But everything else kind of has so many variations.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Maybe that's part of it, is that there's this final form that is so understood.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That you're able to go outside of it and vary it as much as you want. And yet we all understand what it is. I mean, a baked good tin is a perfect example. You can go into a store in London and they might have 500 different shapes. Sizes.

[B]

Where was it the store that you and I went into? And it was just baked good tins as far as the eye could see. When we were in London together.

[A]

Remember Fordham and Mason?

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And then it might be shaped like a bus. It might be shaped like a merry go round. It might be round or oval or whatever. And yet, you know, fundamentally it is that same bay good tin. And it's very satisfying.

[B]

But so here's the thing that I'm realizing, though, as I'm looking at this list and as I'm talking to you, many, many, many things that are not on this list could easily fit into this list as we're defining it. So I Do think that there has to be some quality of essential pleasingness to it. The lunchbox is pleasing in a way that other things, like the water bottle. Water bottles leave me cold. I do not find any kind of aesthetic satisfaction in a water bottle, but to a lunchbox. Speaking of stuff you hang onto for no reason, we have a miniature tin lunchbox that has three Disney princesses on the side. And when we were going through the toys, both Eliza and Eleanor were like, okay, we don't need this Disney princess lunchbox. I was like, are you kidding? You're gonna have to pry this out of my cold, dead hands. I love this thing. It is so pleasing to me. And I remember being young and picking out a lunchbox. I think we got a lunchbox every year. There's something about the lunchbox that's. We have a set of cookie tins that are shaped like the Alphabet, which is just fun if you're making cookies and you want to spell out a word or something. They came packaged in a tin lunchbox. And by far, my favorite thing about these cookie cutters is that they come in the tin. And so maybe now that I'm looking at this, this is actually said this is the most. Gretchen. Maybe this is things that Gretchen likes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because I love a tiny. I love a tin. One of the things that haunts me is I want to keep every tin that crosses my path. And I'm like, what am I going to do with all these tins? I have nothing to do with them. So I get rid of them, even though I admire them so much. These are very much from my mind, from my taste.

[A]

But what's interesting, Gretch, is the one that resonates with me the most, I would say, is the perfume bottle. But I am not a big perfume person.

[B]

But the perfume bottle, what is it about it?

[A]

The smoothness, the beauty, the luxury feeling of perfume that you don't need it, but you want it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It signifies maybe being loved if someone gave you perfume.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just interesting.

[B]

Yeah. And I think liquor bottles, you know when you go to a bar and they have it backlit so the light is shining through, and it's so beautiful. Yes. I love the way that looks interesting. Regina Woolf, in her diaries, just said something about how glass is the most beautiful thing because the way the light shines through it. But the thing that I think people mourn the most because it's sort of fallen out of daily life is the album cover. I think people really do love album cover art. And yet it's just something that we don't have anymore. Really?

[A]

Yes. How often have you looked at a picture with somebody and said, oh, that's our album cover.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Love the album cover.

[B]

And the Swiss army knife is just so cunning.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's like, ooh, it all just folds in so nicely. That's tuxedo. I mean, men look great in a tuxedo. Any man looks good in a tuxedo. I wish that there was, but I don't think you could say little black dress, because there's too much variation in a little black dress. It's not like the jean is a much more conscribed thing, even as given the variations.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

Anyway, well.

[A]

And not everybody does look good in a little black dress. Although many, many, many people do. But you're right. I haven't seen somebody whose looks are not improved by wearing a tuxedo.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Well, if you think of any candidates, you know, I'm still adding to this list, so send them my way.

[A]

But, yes, it is a very personal list. Yes, my list might be different from yours.

[B]

Well, I would love to know your list. Make your list, Elizabeth. Yes, so this is certain items have achieved a perfect and final form to Gretchen.

[A]

Yes, listeners, send us your list.

[B]

Oh, my gosh, I want to see it. I bet my list will get, like, five times as long.

[A]

Okay, Gretchen, what is this week's Spotlight on a Tool?

[B]

Yes, it is my newsletter. My free weekly newsletter. If you would like a small happiness boost each week, you can check out my five Things Making Me Happy newsletter. Speaking of madrigals, the reason that I was thinking of madrigals, because in a recent newsletter, I shared a video that Jamie sent me, which was a reimagining of the song Stayin Alive. You know, the song from Saturday Night Fever, as if it had been written in the 16th century. And it just had me laughing out loud. And I just thought, but I love a madrigal. I didn't even know that's what a I listened to. I'm like, I didn't know that was a madrigal. I love madrigals. I started listening to other madrigals. I'm like, who knew this? I love a madrigal. But a madrigal of staying alive is truly hilarious. So it's just fun to have a place to put things like that. Or the difference between champ and chomp. I spent a little time investigating champ and chomp. If such things are interesting to you, you can read more about them. You just sign up on my website GretchenRubin.com HotbeardCast.com Newsletter and also if you go online, you can see what is in previous issues. If you want to see what it's like or you want to just scroll through them because they are fun. I think I have so much fun doing them. It's a very fun thing to do. It's fun to share things that you like.

[A]

I always learn something new with the five things that send me a happy newsletter.

[B]

Well, you're such a good sister.

[A]

Okay Gretch, coming up. There's something I've been meaning to tell you you but first, this break.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[B]

I've been trying to say yes more to little adventures. Nothing huge, just getting out of the routine and going somewhere different for the day. And it really makes you appreciate having a car that feels solid and comfortable where you're not thinking about the drive. You're just focused on where you're going. That's what stood out to me about the Defender. It has that rugged design, but it also feels really thoughtful inside and I like that. There's a full lineup from the two door 90 to the 110 and the 130 with seating for up to eight. So it really fits different kinds of

[A]

plans and it's built with those durable, purposeful materials so you can actually use it without worrying about every little thing. It also has features that make driving feel easier, like Clearsight technology and the PIVI Pro system so you can keep track of where you're going and everything you want to listen to along the way. Plus, with up to 89 cubic feet of cargo space and available three rows, it gives you a lot of flexibility depending on what you're bringing with you. Explore the full Defender lineup@land roverusa.com okay

[B]

Elizabeth, there's something you've been meaning to tell me. What is it?

[A]

Well, it's something I've been meaning to tell you and sort of ask you, I guess at the same time, which is because I want to see if you feel this too, which is that I feel like people have been socializing more lately since COVID Meaning I feel like obviously we all shut down during COVID and even though that was years ago now, I am just feeling now that people are starting to ramp back up to where they were pre Covid. Is that just my perception because I've been more social or is this a larger trend? Interesting.

[B]

You've had a lot of social things lately, Elizabeth. I mean, yes, the anecdote of you is that, oh, it is ramping up.

[A]

And I guess in my mind it isn't even just, oh, I'm going out to dinner more with friends. But for instance, a woman that I now know I didn't before was feeling like she wanted to see people, but it never came together. So she started this hiking group for women every Friday morning at 7am at Freimon, my favorite place.

[B]

Your favorite.

[A]

And it's this group of women also cool. And we meet at 7am and hike and talk and then you can go for coffee if you have time. But that just sprung up out of nowhere. And then all these women are like, oh yes, I want to do this, I want to be a part of this. I want to talk and connect and meet women and have fun. And again, the fact that now I feel like before you'd say to someone, oh, let's go to dinner, a group of us. And then there'd be like 10 texts about it and it would never happen. Whereas now people are saying, oh, let's go to dinner, and then it actually happens.

[B]

Or like with your mahjong, you'd been talking about it for a long time, but then finally it happened. There was enough coalescence around. Let's do this.

[A]

Yes. And then the other interesting thing, Gretch, is I feel like I'm just going out more in general. For instance, because of my summer of off white delight where I'm trying to wear off white between Memorial Day and Labor Day, I've gone to the mall a few times. Cause I had to pick up a few items, like off white T shirts. So I've been out in the world, just kind of walking around, and it's been so enjoyable, and it's feeling so much more natural now than it did. I don't know, it just feels like, oh, yeah, of course I'm out in the world. That's what one does.

[B]

Wait, can I just say, side note? I love a mall. I think a mall has evolved into its final and perfect form. You might say, hey, people don't go to malls anymore. Sometimes they do, and when they do, I love them all. I love them all.

[A]

Yeah. Well, on that note, Gretchen, back to the final, imperfect form. Sometimes something can reach its perfect form and then die, which the malls are struggling. The album cover sort of died. I mean, the traditional album cover. The talk show is dying, sadly. You know, I love a talk show.

[B]

Being in its final and perfect form doesn't assure its existence or its popularity. But it is that we all accept that this is what it is.

[A]

Yes. Like, one could say the moat achieved its final in perfect form.

[B]

I love a moat. I love.

[A]

But no longer necessary.

[B]

But do you say, do you want a moat? I'm like, give me a moat. I want some swans. I want to throw a couple mischievous interlopers in there. Drop some boiling oil. It's. I love a moat.

[A]

Anyway, I just feel like now I'm back, back out in the world, and it seems like everybody to me is just going out more.

[B]

Well, I think another thing is work from home. Because that was something that really changed with COVID and that we're still kind of working through how that's affecting how much we go out and how we socialize. And I think there's gonna be fascinating research looking back on all these periods to see what was observable, because I kind of have your impression as well. But for me, I'm like, well, is it because I'm deep into the empty nest. And so now my social life is really, truly starting to evolve. Does it have to do with my own being on a book tour or not being on a book tour? For me, I think I would have noticed that, but I would have thought it was more about me personally. But now that you're saying, is this something that is more widespread? Maybe so. That's interesting.

[A]

Well, interesting also, I will say many women my age, we do have kids who are getting older. Many of them can drive. So it could just be that people are more available. And so, to me, it's feeling like everyone's going out, but it's really just people in my kind of general vicinity.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But also it feels easier. I mean, part of it is, I think, for a long time, socializing and doing things felt draining. Like, more like I had to recover from it, even though I love seeing people. Whereas now it feels more just incorporated into everyday life. And that's a great thing.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, that is fascinating. And part of socializing, too, is how willing are other people to make plans and things? Cause like you say, if you're sending 10 texts and then nothing happens. And that itself is draining.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's draining to propose and then have things not happen. It's draining to reschedule. What about these dates? Those don't work. What about these dates? You know, scheduling is life. And maybe if everybody is ever so slightly more likely to agree, then you wouldn't have to actually have that much change before all of a sudden, many, many more plans would be made. And then when you make plans, you get in the habit of it. You remember how fun it is. Kind of that muscle is increased. It doesn't feel like. Like, oh, well, I went out one night this week. Like, that's my quote. You know, I'm done.

[A]

Well, and of course, the more connected you are to people, the easier it is to spend time with them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which, again, makes you do it more. So it all feeds on itself, which

[B]

makes you do it more. Okay, well, I think that is fascinating. I want to think about that in my own life. You've given me much food for thought. Interesting.

[A]

Okay, Gretchen, what is our quotation this week?

[B]

This comes from Gertrude Stein, everybody's autobiography. I am I, because my little dog knows me. The more you think about it, the more layers you see. I am I because my little dog knows me.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?

[A]

Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to Chuck. Bye, Gretch.

[B]

Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. So Lizzie, do you have to get up earlier on Friday to make those hikes or it's okay?

[A]

Oh yeah, I have to get up at 6 o', clock, which even though I get up often at like 6:36 just feels different to me. Yeah, but it's worth it.

[B]

Yeah. And probably there's less traffic, right? Getting to Fryman.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And in the summer of course it gets hot. So seven is really the perfect time to hike.

[B]

Fun. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying doing. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required Intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].