Gretchen (3:01)

And it's been so fun. We're gonna go to a little bit later in the year, so it'll be a different time of year, which will be interesting. It'll be interesting to see what's changed and what's the same. And it's fun to have a big adventure to be planning and talking about. Always the problem is finding dateful. I feel like that is the great hurdle to all fun adventures and plans and parties and coffees and lunches and whatever. It's always figuring out the date. But we did figure out a date. We've set it aside, and now is the fun part of thinking about all the things we want to do.

Elizabeth (3:34)

Yeah, well. And mom found out that Ellen Hildebrand, who, of course is a super popular writer who's known for her many, many books that take place on Nantucket, she actually wrote a guidebook called the Blue Book. So we all got that. And I've been reading that. And she talks about the bookstores and different restaurants and the different hotels and her point of view on things, and so that's really fun. And she even shows up weekly at a bookstore and does a signing. So, of course, I would like to go meet Ellen Hildebrand, hopefully while we're there.

Gretchen (4:11)

You know, her book reminds me of a book that Roz Chast, the brilliant cartoonist and also memoir writer, wrote about. It's called Going Into Town. And it's like a guide she wrote for her children about New York City. It's funny things, like, if I remember correctly, one of them is like, if you're getting out of the subway and you note that one car is unusually empty, don't think to yourself, oh, my goodness, get into the empty car. There's a reason that nobody's wanting to be in that car. Pick a different car. That is very good New York City advice, but I think in an age where there's so much information available, it is really nice to say this is one person's extremely idiosyncratic take. I can take it or leave it. I can filter it through what I know is important to them. Like, maybe this person is a super huge foodie and I don't care about food or whatever, but it is sort of interesting just to follow their route through a place.

Elizabeth (5:06)

Yeah. And Nantucket is just so memory filled for us. I mean, I remember Gretchen seeing Jackie O at a store in Nantucket. I mean, that's. God, to be top, top, top celebrity sighting. That's royalty.

Gretchen (5:23)

Yes. I mean, I still have a sweatshirt for The Morning Glory Cafe that I still have, which I will pack and bring and wear. One of my favorite pictures is. I think mom must have taken it. It's you and me and dad lined up on the beach. I think you're on your stomach reading a book. I'm lying on my back with a T shirt covering my face. And probably not nearly enough sunscreen because back then I was not sunscreened enough as I should have been as a red haired person. And then like slicing off a piece of cheese or something like that. And it's just this wonderful summer picture. It's going to be so fun.

Elizabeth (5:58)

Yeah. And Gretchen, another Nantucket item I have to speak on is my carrot slippers.

Gretchen (6:05)

Oh, that's right. You got them in that store that we loved so much. What was the name?

Elizabeth (6:09)

Yes. So every year Christmas, I'm sure I've talked about this on podcast, I wear these enormous slippers in the shape of carrots. And I had done that since, like, I don't know, I got those when I was maybe 10 or 12. And I mean literally up until the last Christmas I had in Kansas City a couple years ago, I wore those every morning. And mom would always say, do you want to take these with you? And I say, no, I leave them in Kansas City and I wear them once a year. And it's on Christmas.

Gretchen (6:44)

And.

Elizabeth (6:44)

And yes, I got those there and I was just desperate to have them.

Gretchen (6:48)

Yes. No. And I think they were pretty expensive, especially given that they were carrot slippers. Okay, but Elizabeth, here's the thing that I don't. You have such a better memory than I do. How is it that carrot slippers that are not of themselves necessarily holiday themed, why are they so closely associated with Christmas morning? That is the one time that you wear it. And it's been that way as long as I can remember. But how did they get associated with Christmas?

Elizabeth (7:14)

I think I probably wore them around more often. And then maybe I getting older, I just didn't want to wear carrot slippers around, but I decided that they were special so I'd wear them on Christmas. That's what I'm guessing was the thought process.

Gretchen (7:30)

Yes.

Elizabeth (7:31)

But yes, they're very special to me.

Gretchen (7:34)

Yes, that's right. Oh, there's so many things when we start thinking about it. I bet blueberry muffins always make me think of Nantucket.

Elizabeth (7:41)

Oh, yes, and cranberry bread.

Gretchen (7:43)

Oh, and that Barney Miller. We never watched tv, but for some it was like the morning that we were leaving, we all ended up watching an episode of Barney Miller. And it's the one where all of the police officers accidentally eat brownies that are laced with marijuana and they just become silly. And for some reason, it was so unlike. We just usually didn't do that. And I. But we were just laughing so much, which is like, mushy, mushy, mushy. One of the lines, I think, because they're talking sharp as attack. Sharp. Wojaho. It's. You spell it like it sounds. It's sharpest attack. Oh, my gosh. I gotta go watch that on YouTube right this minute.

Elizabeth (8:24)

Anyway, so that's making me happier. I'm sure we'll be talking a lot about our trip. What's making you happier?

Gretchen (8:30)

Okay, so you know that for years, a repeating resolution that I've had is to work outside my office. I have an office that I love. It's this little room at the top of our apartment building that used to be a water tower or like a water tank, which is a very New York City thing that years was converted into this room. And when we got the apartment, we also got that room which had been a storage room. So I turned it into my office. And it's nice. It's got windows, it's got heating, it's got air conditioning. It's off the service stairs. And I love my office. And I have three monitors, which I love. And, you know, I'm always trying to tell people that they should have either a giant screen where they can have multiple documents open or have multiple monitors. Because if you're a knowledge worker, as we are, I find that it's massively helpful. People think that it hurts your focus, but it actually helps your focus anyway. I love my office, but I also love working outside my office. And I just find that I often focus better. I love the change of scenery. And in particular, I love working in the New York Society Library, which is. It's, like, older than the United States. It's this little subscription library that's been around forever, and it has open stacks, which means you can go and sit amongst the books. And plus, they have. And then they also have workrooms. So I love New York Society Library. I've always loved working in a library. Like when I was in college and law school, I would spend hours and hours. I just love being in a library, working in library. I met Jamie in a library because that's where I was working all the time. I would just spend a lot of time in libraries. But, you know, I have to close out all my documents. I have to do this process where I coordinate my laptop and my desktop so that everything is the same and updated. Because obviously if I edited one and not the other, it would just get super messy. And I need to walk over there and then walk back. Of course, this takes. Takes very little time and effort. I live very close to that library. It's very easy to do this updating thing. And I have my external monitor that I talk about all the time, which I love, which is very easy to pack and set up. And so finally this year, I have truly started working outside my office. And I love it so much.

Elizabeth (10:41)

I'm so glad. So you sync and then you walk over there, and then you have to sync again, I guess.

Gretchen (10:48)

Yeah. But I just hit a button. It's called Sync Toy, and it just syncs it up. And I, you know, out of superstition, I do it a few times just to make sure. But it just takes one second. You have to remember to do it. And I have had a couple times where I've gone away, opened up my documents, and realized that I had forgotten to sync it up. And so then I can't work until I go home and do the sync. But I just find it energizing. And also, you know, I want to take advantage of things. And so the idea that I have this beautiful library so close to me that I could be working in, and yet I just can't be bothered to walk over to it. It just. It's like not using the Met. It kind of on my conscience. So now that I'm using it, and then, like, I'll check out books, or I can return my books faster. I can just wander around the shelves. I could pull out an art book and look at it if I need a little bit of a break.

Elizabeth (11:36)

Well, and Gretch, your word of the year being neighbor. It feels like a very neighbor thing to go use the local library. You'll see people probably say hello, start to recognize the different people who work there and use the library.

Gretchen (11:53)

For sure. Yes, I know the. I know the library. Yes. Because most of them have been there for years and years and years. I had not tied that to neighbor. But, Elizabeth, you are right. That is one of the principal things in my neighborhood that I love. It's something that I just. I love New York society libraries so, so, so much. But I didn't think about it as a way to connect with neighbors. And this is part of my neighborhood. Oh, that's so great. I love that.

Elizabeth (12:19)

So you just have to make sure you keep doing it. Cause it's the kind of thing where if you left town for a week, you could come back and, like, never go again.

Gretchen (12:27)

You know, I'm thinking that what I need to do is actually put it on the calendar. Like, I. I'll only do it if I have two hours where I don't need to do something, because otherwise it really just isn't worth the whatever. But what I need to do is then hold it so that nothing gets stuck in there accidentally. And you know me, if it's on my calendar, I do it. So if it says, you know, go to Society library, then I will go because it's an entry in my calendar. So I think that now that I'm doing that, that is also helping. But, you know, it's like many things that when you do it, you tend to do it more. It's like you in the treadmill. It's just now that you're back doing it a little bit, it makes it much easier to do it a lot. And I think once that I'm doing this a little bit, I'm reminded this is just takes very, very little effort, and yet it gives me immense pleasure and it makes me more productive. So this is like a win, win, win. So I just need to put in that little bit of friction to do it.

Elizabeth (13:20)

Yeah. Speaking of the treadmill desk, Gretch, I'm trying to make it a habit that when Sarah and I do our live hour of working, we're doing a behind the scenes working lunch every Wednesday at 30 where we work on our book live on Substack. I'm making a habit of doing that on the treadmill. And so that's like a solid hour right there.

Gretchen (13:41)

Well, I tuned into your last one, Elizabeth, and I loved seeing both of you. Your head's kind of bobbing up, bouncing up and down.

Elizabeth (13:47)

Yeah.

Gretchen (13:47)

Love the treadmill action. Well, and it's obliger ness, right? Because you're like, everybody's gonna know, oh, there's Elizabeth on the treadmill desk. Or, oh, why is Elizabeth's head so steady? She must be sitting in a chair.

Elizabeth (13:59)

Exactly.

Gretchen (14:00)

Fun.

Elizabeth (14:01)

All right, well, coming up, there's something you've been meaning to tell me. But first, this break.

Gretchen (14:15)

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Elizabeth (14:22)

Yes.

Gretchen (14:23)

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Elizabeth (14:43)

and Spectrum Business offers 100% US based customer support 24. 7 to help you stay up and running. They also offer tailored connectivity solutions with packages built for your business budget. Millions of business owners rely on Spectrum Business to keep them connected. Visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply Services not available in all areas these days I am all about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it is not well made and versatile, it is just not worth it to me. And that is why Gretchen I love quintessential the fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. You know Gretchen, I can't live without my Quince Mongolian cashmere sweaters. But I also love their T shirts. Their cotton poplin is crisp and holds its shape. I can wear everything season after season

Gretchen (15:45)

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Hasan Minhaj (16:14)

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Elizabeth (17:22)

And there's something you've been meaning to tell me.

Gretchen (17:25)

Okay. So I had this realization, which I thought was very helpful. So this occurred to me because I went to a dinner party which was super, super fun. And the fact is, I just talk too much. I just was talking too much. And I think sometimes in places like that, I talk too much because I do spend a lot of my day in silence. And I think, oh, I'm so excited to be talking to people. I gotta talk, talk. But I just talk too much. And you know, you have that bad feeling when you walk away, sort of post party blues. Or sometimes, like, maybe you say something like you get somebody's name wrong, or you've obviously mixed them up with somebody else or you didn't remember something important. I don't. You just feel like you put your foot in your mouth in some way and you just feel bad, right?

Elizabeth (18:05)

Yeah.

Gretchen (18:05)

And then, like, having a party. Sometimes when you have a party, you're like, oh, I can't decide exactly who to invite. And what if I invited this person? But maybe this person's feelings are hurt, or maybe people are gonna judge my house or whatever. And what I realized is we think of things like going to parties, entertaining, going out in the world as fun and it's gonna be great, or maybe you're gonna volunteer and do something good in the world. But sometimes you feel bad. Sometimes things happen and you don't feel good. You feel bad, you feel remorseful, like I did, or you feel worried, or maybe you feel anxious or judged, or maybe you get resentful. And I think it's helpful just to say, like, that is just part of putting yourself out into the world. If you put yourself out into the world, it's just not gonna be 100% fun and games. It's not gonna be all good vibes. And we just do it anyway because it's worth it. And because in the end, yeah, I talk too much at that dinner party. But probably people are like, that's okay.

Elizabeth (19:09)

Or they didn't notice. I mean, it's funny. Cause I had a similar thing at a dinner party recently where the next day I' my gosh, I was talking a lot. Like, what was that? Not unusual, probably for either of us.

Gretchen (19:24)

Yeah.

Elizabeth (19:24)

But the other day, Sarah and I had been out somewhere and she was like, okay, can we just talk about that huge thing I did? Were you dying? I'm like, I didn't notice. She's like, you didn't notice. She goes, I thought you were stepped in to, like, dig me out of my hole. And I was like, no. I didn't even know what she was talking about.

Gretchen (19:48)

See, there you go. Sarah is lucky to have you there as a reality check.

Elizabeth (19:52)

Yeah. But the point is that maybe you did have a gaffe. Maybe you did misstep. Bad feelings just go with it. It's similar to, I feel like when you go on vacation, you feel like every minute is supposed to be delightful. But of course, as with all things, not every moment is delightful. Something very annoying can happen. You can get in a bad mood on vacation and have to work through that. I think it is really helpful to think nothing is without its moments, and you just accept it.

Gretchen (20:25)

And I think it's even that it's kind of the cost of doing it. You have to say, I just accept that in order to have these good things, I have to accept the bad things. And I do think you're right, that being forewarned to understand this and not to be surprised by it is helpful, because I remember, and I think. I'm sure I've told you this story before because it made such a. A profound impact on me. So Jamie and I were buying our first apartment. We've only bought one place together. So, you know, it's huge. And we're getting ready for, like, the big day. And somebody said to me, just sort of offhandedly, now, just brace yourself. You're gonna feel awful. And I was like, what are you talking about? I thought, oh, this is like a huge milestone of adulthood. This is amazing. And she goes, oh, no. You're gonna feel like you're making the biggest mistake of your life. You're gonna feel like you've signed your life away, and you're gonna feel. And I was like, really? And then we got there, and I felt terrible. And had she not warned me, I think I seriously would have been like, well, maybe we need to rethink this. Maybe we need to back out. Maybe these cold feet are really telling me something important. And maybe for some people, that would have been true. But for me, it was just what she said. It's such a big step. There's so much solemnity around it that. That it's not a moment of. At least for me, I didn't feel excited and happy. And it was very helpful to know that a good friend had. Had just exactly the same responses I had.

Elizabeth (21:51)

It also reminds me of your saying, gretchen scheduling is life. Yes, it's not pleasant. Nobody likes it. But scheduling is life. Well, also, as you're saying, the price of being out in the world and doing things is that sometimes you're gonna get a bad feeling, and that is living.

Gretchen (22:10)

I mean, you don't want to go

Elizabeth (22:11)

to the dinner party and just sit there and not talk because you don't want to talk too much. I mean, you also contributed a lot to the dinner party. I'm sure you were very entertaining and had many interesting things to say.

Gretchen (22:24)

Yeah. It's just. It is very scheduling as life adjacent, where it's just, this is just how it goes. This is what it takes. This is what we accept.

Elizabeth (22:33)

It's like you have to brush your teeth.

Gretchen (22:35)

Yeah.

Elizabeth (22:35)

That is part of life. It's not the most fun, interesting part, but life has these annoyances.

Gretchen (22:41)

It's even different from that because I think there is a feeling like if I behave better, if I did everything right, or I could avoid this, or I should feel bad about the fact that I'm feeling bad, or like, maybe if I were a better housekeeper, I would feel less judged when people come over to my house for dinner or whatever. But this is just part of it. It's not like if you did everything right, you would be free from it. It's just part of it.

Elizabeth (23:04)

It. Yeah.

Gretchen (23:05)

Interesting.

Elizabeth (23:06)

I think that's a very good insight that I'm going to use. Okay, Gretch, what is our spotlight on a tool this week?

Gretchen (23:14)

Well, you know, when spring approaches, a lot of people feel like they get a fresh beginning. It's kind of a different kind of new year than January 1st. So March is a good time to revisit how you designed your year. Or if you didn't do the design your year exercises before, you can do them now. It's always a good time to do that. I have added new tools to the design your year hub on my site, so you can, if you haven't done it, you can make your 26 for 26 list. You can pick a one word theme. You can join the move 26 and 26 challenge. It really is never too late to start designing your year. I think sometimes people feel like if they miss that January 1st, they've blown it until the next year. But, you know, the best time to design Your year is January 1st. The second best time is now, and it's all@happiercast.com designyouryear or just go to my website and poke around. It's right there. Yes.

Elizabeth (24:06)

I love printing out the list and then being able to put it on my wall for the yearly items with

Gretchen (24:12)

the word mine is right next to me right now. And Elizabeth, you know I have not crossed off a single item.

Elizabeth (24:17)

No, that's so unlike you, Gretch.

Gretchen (24:20)

Well, yeah, I know. I gotta get on it.

Elizabeth (24:22)

All right, coming up, we're gonna talk about a happiness stumbling block that you noticed recently. But first, a spray

Gretchen (24:31)

foreign.

Elizabeth (24:37)

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Gretchen (25:06)

The Defender, engineered to meet challenges head on so you can explore with confidence an icon reimagined designed for a new generation of explorers. Choose from the Defender 90, 110 or 130. Seating up to eight adventurers. With a tough tested exterior, a modern and functional interior, and intelligent tech like 3D surround cameras and the Pivi Pro infotainment system. Every journey feels limitless because like you, the Defender is capable of great things. Build your Defender today@land roverusa.com Lately, Jamie and I have been on a little flavor tour at Whole Foods Market. Instead of making the same three dinners over and over, we wander the aisles and pick a region to visit. It makes dinners feel less predictable. Last week we leaned Mediterranean. Another time we swung Latin inspired. And we always keep San Pellegrino on hand because it instantly makes it feel like more of a fancy meal.

Elizabeth (26:06)

Yeah, I love that at Whole Foods Market you can really see the savings. Explore the store for yellow signs. You'll find them aisle after aisle, highlighting sales and everyday low price items with the same high quality. Get inspired to try something new. And if you truly don't want to cook, that's me. The prepared food section saves me empanadas or burritos. And dinner is just handled. Whole Foods Market makes it easy to take it easy when it's dinner time. Save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Market. Okay, Gretch, we're back with a light hearted stumbling block. It's not the most. It's not gonna, you know, ruin your life.

Gretchen (26:48)

No. Okay, so these are funny mix ups. And I realized once I started thinking about it that there were of these mix ups banging around in my brain. But to set the stage, Elizabeth, explain the Raymond Carver Raymond Chandler confusion that arose when we were writing Dad's obituary. This was a lighthearted moment that came up. It was such a beautiful couple of days when we were thoughtfully reflecting on Dad's life and getting every detail right and editing every word and choosing just the right poem to conclude it. But then we realized, after we'd finished, we realized that there was something that had become a little mixed up.

Elizabeth (27:27)

Yes. So when we were writing Dad's obituary, you and mom had found a poem by Raymond Carver called Late Fragment that we wanted to use in the obituary. Beautiful poem. And we're talking about it all the time. Oh, the Raymond Carver poem. The Raymond Carver poem. Like, oh, it's so beautiful. I'm so happy we found it. And then after a couple days, we were talking, and somehow it came up that mom and I, both, independently, never having discussed it, thought Raymond Carver was Raymond Chandler, who wrote noir stories, like a lot of la noir mystery novels. And both of us had just thought, wow, this guy is so, you know, diverse in his abilities. Like, he wrote these noir mysteries, and he wrote all of these amazing poems. And you were like, no, I don't think that's the same person. And mom and I were like, oh, yeah, that's Raymond Carver. He also wrote these noir mysteries. And we almost had you convinced that we were right. Cause we were both so sure about it. And then you looked it up, and you're like, no. Raymond Chandler, who wrote the Big Sleep and the Long Goodbye and had a famous character named Philip Marlowe. I've listened to many of his books, but that was just hilarious. They have nothing, I mean, nothing in common in their writing, except, you know, they're both named Raymond and they both have c last names.

Gretchen (29:05)

No, because Raymond Carver's like this minimalist writer who writes these very spare stories like Cathedral and what we talk about when we talk about love. And it was one of these things where the way that it came out, it was just so offhand. It was like, wait, what? No, I don't. I don't think about that. Oh, my gosh, it was so funny. So in that case, I knew the difference. I couldn't remember Raymond Chandler's name, but I'm like, no, no, there's another guy. And so then we quickly looked it up when we did. But I realized that I could think of many occasions where for years, I will be conflating two things this way. And it takes me a long time to untangle it. Because part of the problem is I don't realize that two things have become conflated. I just Think that they're the same thing. So I never look it up or inquire further. Cause I'm like, oh, it's just that. Okay. So, for instance, until extremely recently when I went to an immersive experience here in New York City. And I mean, this is like 6 months ago about the Phantom of the Opera. I thought the Hunchback of Notre Dame and the Phantom of the Opera were the same. Now, to be clear, the Hunchback of Notre Dame is Victor Hugo's 1831 novel about this bell ringer who has this love for this dancer, Esmeralda. And the Phantom of the Opera is Gaston Leroux's 1910 novel about this disfigured musical genius who haunts the Paris Opera House and is obsessed with this young soprano. In my defense, I will say both of these stories feature outcasts, isolated by their appearance, dwelling secretly in grand Parisian monuments, whose unrequited love for a beautiful young woman leads to tragedy. Okay. And they kind of have. It's the blank of blank, right? And it's a person of a place. But apparently they have nothing to do with each other. They're completely unrelated. Now, Leroux might have been influenced by Hugo because Hugo was earlier. But I think it's very defensible. And yet they have nothing to do with each other. And nobody else seems to have this problem.

Elizabeth (31:11)

I do wonder if it was inspired by the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Gretchen (31:16)

Right. Today we would be like, that's a little bit sketchy. It feels extremely.

Elizabeth (31:21)

It's an homage.

Gretchen (31:22)

Yes. Let's call it an homage. Yeah, for sure. Okay, here's another one. Shirley Hazard and Shirley Jackson. These people have nothing to do with each other, except that they're both named Shirley. They don't even have the same first initial, like Carver and Chandler. Shirley Hazard is an Australian American author Who writes these psychologically complex literary fiction like the Transit of Venus, the Great Fire. And Shirley Jackson is also an incredibly esteemed author. She's an American. She writes sort of Gothic horror and psychological suspense. But she also writes these kind of. In a completely different vein. These sort of domestic memoirs that are very funny. But she's far better known today for her short story, the Lottery, the Haunting of Hill House. We've always lived in the castle. And they have nothing to do with each other. Except that they're both named Shirley. But I was always like, hmm, that's interesting. I sort of just got them tangled up in my mind.

Elizabeth (32:17)

Oh, that's funny.

Gretchen (32:18)

Okay. Funnier still is that I Have another mix up that also features Shirley Hazzard. Okay. And this one is Transit of Venus and Tropic of Cancer. These are two novels. Transit of Venus is Shirley Hazard's 1980 novel, maybe her best known novel. It's about two Australian sisters across the decades. Tropic of Cancer is this kind of controversial, semi autobiographical novel that Henry Miller wrote that is about 1930s Paris. It's very bohemian and racy. And I remember reading the Tropic of Cancer and not liking it. And then people kept saying, oh, have you read the Transit of Venus? You would love it. You would love it. I'm like, no, I already read it. I didn't like it. I was like, gosh, it's so surprising that all these people I know say how much they love Transit of Venus. I really didn't like it that much. And then the way they're talking about, like, that doesn't sound like the book I read. And then finally I realized Transit of Venus and Tropic of Cancer are completely different. Again, the letter T. And then of something related to astrology, I would say, like, Venus and Cancer to me are kind of like astrological divinity. Names that feel tied together and, oh, my gosh, my world just feels so clarified now that I've untangled those things.

Elizabeth (33:31)

Well, Gretch, I was trying to think of, as you've been talking, if I have any examples of this. I know I do. I can't think of them, but as they come up now, I'm gonna write them down and then I can tell you. Cause I know this happens just like the Raymond Chandler. Raymond Carver. I know it happens often.

Gretchen (33:50)

Yes. Yeah. Well, it's funny. I know. I want to hear more examples from people because I do think that they're very funny because they make a kind of internal sense, even if you haven't experienced yourself. I feel like it's understandable how I got there.

Elizabeth (34:03)

You know what it reminds me of is the phenomenon of thinking the lyrics to a song are different.

Gretchen (34:09)

Oh, yes.

Elizabeth (34:10)

From what they really are. I mean, people have so many funny examples of, you know, for 40 years, they'll be singing the lyrics completely wrong to a song.

Gretchen (34:19)

That's exactly right. It's very much like that. That's so funny.

Elizabeth (34:22)

Okay, Gretch, what is our quotation this week?

Gretchen (34:25)

Okay. This comes from James Baldwin, who's writing I Love. It's an interview with Richard Goldstein called Go the Way youy Blood Beats. And here is what he said. If you don't live the only life you have, you Won't live some other life. You won't live any life at all. That's the only advice you can give anybody. And it's not advice, it's an observation.

Elizabeth (34:48)

Love that.

Gretchen (34:51)

So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?

Elizabeth (34:53)

Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to Chuck. Bye, Gretch.

Gretchen (34:58)

Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now, Elizabeth. I think that one reason the Raymond Carver, Raymond Chandler mix up seems so funny to me is like, it was such, like a solemn time and we were so purposeful and so focused and then to realize that there was just this sort of comical confusion. It didn't matter because, like, in the printing, but just that you and mom were like, yeah, it's so funny. This crime guy, really, he's really got range.

Elizabeth (35:44)

Yes. And it struck us both. We both thought about it, but independently.

Gretchen (35:49)

Yeah, it was just. It was a very light moment in a very solemn time.

Elizabeth (35:55)

Hi, Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here. We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.

Gretchen (36:05)

We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you.

Elizabeth (36:10)

You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?

Gretchen (36:22)

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever you get podcasts, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships. Keke Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success. Us Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.