More Happier: Do You Expect Too Much? Plus, How to Finish an Important Project

Summary

Podcast Summary: Happier with Gretchen Rubin

Episode: More Happier: Do You Expect Too Much? Plus, How to Finish an Important Project

Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft
Release Date: March 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Gretchen and Elizabeth explore two main themes: the modern tendency to "expect too much" from relationships, institutions, and ourselves, and the specific tools and mindsets needed to finally finish an important project. Along the way, they share personal anecdotes, practical advice, and thought-provoking reflections on happiness, habits, and self-knowledge—staying true to the show’s friendly, insightful tone.

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What’s Making Us Happier

[01:03–10:32]

Elizabeth: The Joy (and Hassle) of Libby, the Library App

• Story: Elizabeth’s Libby app (used for free audiobooks) stopped working, prompting a mini-quest to her local library.
• Key Insight: Libraries are phasing out COVID-era e-cards in favor of physical cards for California residents.
• Community Tip: Any California resident can get a physical library card at any branch in the state—useful for listeners who move or travel!
• Reflections: Visiting the library was unexpectedly pleasant and served as a reminder to enjoy physical books too.
• Quote:
  "Librarians are so great. And immediately she was like, oh, that's because we are phasing out online cards." – Elizabeth [02:46]

Gretchen: Gratitude for the Phone Flashlight

• Story: Gretchen shares her daily reliance on the phone flashlight, from sneaking around her apartment to not wake up Taffy (her dog), to finding lost earbuds.

• Reflection: Technology’s small conveniences can majorly boost daily happiness, even if we take them for granted.

• Quote:
  "It's so easy to take it for granted, but it's actually a major convenience of everyday life now." – Gretchen [07:53]

• Fun Moment:
  "Well, it's making me happy to picture you sneaking around the apartment to not wake up Taffy. I'm thinking of you, like, the Pink Panther cartoon…” – Elizabeth [10:03]

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Main Topic: Are We Expecting Too Much?

[11:54–20:41]

The Modern Problem of High Expectations

• Introduction: Gretchen wonders if, across life—especially in marriages, friendships, jobs, and even from our children—we expect too much, leading to disappointment.

• Marriage Example: Today, people expect a spouse to be everything: partner, coach, best friend, etc. Historically, marriage served more practical, limited purposes.

• Workplace/School: Analogous expectations have spread to jobs (seeking purpose, fun, mentorship) and educational institutions.

• Friendship: Unrealistic expectations for friends ("toxic friend" often just means "bad at texting"?), with comparisons across types and levels of friendship.

• Quote:
  "Our expectations for marriage have just gotten so burdensome that...who can do that?" – Gretchen [13:08]

• Elizabeth: Relates, noting the “passion” fallacy (the expectation to find one’s singular passion) and how different relationships organically sift according to matching expectations.

• Quote:
  "My friends, I think, have very reasonable expectations for friendship, which is nice.” – Elizabeth [15:00]

• Parenting: Contradictory expectations for children (be social but not too social, take risks but not too many).

• Empty Nest Example: Parental disappointment often comes from expecting frequent communication from adult children.

• Quote:
  "One mother said to me, I'm estranged from my son. And I said, how so? And she said, he only texts me, like, two or three times a week. And I was like, to me, that doesn't sound out..." – Gretchen [16:43]

When Are Expectations “Too Much”?

• Key Insight: Clarifying and sometimes lowering expectations can prevent unnecessary hurt (e.g., not all friends or spouses need to participate in every aspect of one’s creative/professional life).

• Discussion: Sometimes friends will not read your book or show up to every event, and that's normal.

• Quote:
  "If you don't expect it, you won't be disappointed or hurt..." – Gretchen [17:43]

• Elizabeth: Draws a comparison to partners in other fields (insurance/law/medicine) whose spouses don’t ordinarily engage in each other's daily work minutiae.

• Conversation Insight: Talking to others can help calibrate expectations ("I think it can be helpful because if you hear from others, ‘Oh, I don't hold that expectation,’ sometimes you can just, even for yourself, decide, well, maybe I want to let go of that expectation…") – Gretchen [19:47]

• Reframing: Sometimes it's not about lowering standards, but clarifying which expectations matter most and which ones can be relaxed.

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Spotlight on a Tool: “Since You Asked” & Audiobook Announcement

[20:48–22:07]

• **Gretchen plugs “Since You Asked,” her advice podcast with Lori Gottlieb, encouraging listeners to send in and listen to juicy questions and different responses from the audience.

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How to Finish an Important Project: “Get It Done” Audiobook

[21:40–28:10]

• Elizabeth’s Question: What is Gretchen’s new audiobook, Get It Done: How to Complete Your Dream Project?

• Gretchen’s Answer:

  • Unlike many happiness tools focused on lifelong habits, this book targets “finite projects” (e.g., writing a thesis, planning a renovation, starting and finishing a craft project).
  • Key Insight: Sometimes, people just want to finish one important thing—forming a habit isn't the goal.
  • The Problem: Many get stuck three-quarters through a project, often due to fear of putting the work out for critique, being an “opener not a finisher,” or because the last steps are hard and less enjoyable.
  • Discusses the Four Tendencies as a framework to understand why we finish (or abandon) projects.
  • Advice:
    • Recognize what kind of “block” you have (fear? new interests? lack of finishing skills?).
    • Take direct steps—sometimes just being aware of common pitfalls is powerful.
    • Starting and “starting over” are especially hard—address these with intention.

• Quote:
  "If you do one of these things and you get it done, it's just a gigantic bolt of energy and just like a sense of possibility." – Gretchen [24:20]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You know, I love to reframe.” – Elizabeth [20:42]
• On happiness projects:
  "The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now." – Gretchen [28:40]
• Playful anecdote picturing Gretchen sneaking around her apartment like the Pink Panther [10:03]

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Guest Quotation of the Week

[28:17]

• From Iris Murdoch’s The Good Apprentice:
  "She loved the particular silence which the stilled life of flowers could give to a room."
  — Chosen by Gretchen as a moment of poetic inspiration for listeners.

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Practical Wisdom for Listeners

• On Expectations:

  • Regularly examine what you expect from others and institutions—are you expecting one source to meet all your needs?
  • Talk openly with friends and family about what is reasonable and what can be let go.

• On Projects:

  • When stuck at the end, consider if fear of criticism or loss of novelty is the real culprit.
  • Sometimes, completing one project (rather than creating a habit) gives the greatest satisfaction.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Libby Library App & Phone Flashlight: [01:03–10:32]
• Are We Expecting Too Much? (relationships, work, parenting): [11:54–20:41]
• Finishing a Big Project ("Get It Done" audiobook): [21:40–28:10]
• Quotation of the Week: [28:17]
• Closing Thoughts and Bloopers: [28:33–29:26]

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Final Reflection

This episode blends everyday gratitude with deeper psychological insight, challenging listeners to rethink what they ask of others—and themselves. Gretchen and Elizabeth encourage gentle self-awareness, open communication, and pragmatic tools for getting unstuck, all delivered in their signature conversational, relatable style.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Dr. Nicole Lapera. some point in life, many of us notice that our reactions don't always match who we want to be. We shut down, give too much, or pull away, even when it cost us. These habits don't come from nowhere. They begin early, as your nervous system learned how to keep you safe. And over time, they can leave you feeling unsure of who you are or living a life that doesn't feel fully like yours. In my new book, Reparenting the Inner Child, I share practical tools to help you understand these patterns and give you the roadmap on how to create lasting change. Replacement Reparenting the Inner Child is available wherever you get your books.

[B]

Hello. We're here for more Happier, a podcast where we get happier. It's the weekend. It's a looser vibe. Hey, Elizabeth.

[C]

Hey, Gretch.

[B]

Today we'll talk about the question of whether we're extremely expecting too much and the challenge of actually finishing a big project. But first, something making us happier. Elizabeth, what is something that's making you happier?

[C]

Well, Gretch, this is something making me happier, and it's also possibly a bit of a PSA for people.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[C]

So this is about my Libby. I talk all the time about how I love listening to books, and of course, I have Audible. But also I use Libby, which is a library app, so you can check out many audiobooks for free. It's the greatest thing. You can put books on hold, and then they'll pop up and you can listen to them. And I absolutely love it. Well, recently, my Libby stopped working. It said it needed to verify my card, and I kept putting in my phone number, and then it would say, this isn't verified. We can't give you books. And I kept trying to figure out what was going on, and it would just say, if you need help, the best option is to go to a library. Your local library. Well, I'm not always great at doing errands and appointments and those kind of things, Gretch, but I was driving by the library the other day, and I'm like, you know what? I have a minute. I'm gonna go into the library, and I'm gonna figure out what is going on with my Libby, because can I just tell you, not having my Libby has really been cramping my style. I need it.

[B]

You. You love listening to books.

[C]

I do. And I love this. Putting books on hold. See, what I like is I'm reading something, someone mentions a book, I go to Libby, I either check it out. If it's available or put it on hold. So it's also like a to read list. It reminds me of books I want to remember.

[B]

Right. And it's a little bit of a roulette, right? Because, like, oh, I forgot all about that book. And here it is. It's like a little surprise treatment.

[C]

Yes, exactly. Anyway, I went into the library, I talked to the librarian. Librarians are so great. And immediately she was like, oh, that's because she said, do you have a physical card? And I said, no, I signed up online. And she goes, ah, this is because we are phasing out online cards. I guess they started it during COVID which must be when I started listening to books, because, you know, they didn't want people to have to go into the library, but now they want everybody to go in and get a physical card. So I just filled out a very simple form. Gretch got my physical card, she put it into the computer, and my Libby was immediately restored, and all is well in my world again.

[B]

Well, what a great feeling to have that back and to have it truly so simple. Because that's like, check with your systems administrator. And you're like, I don't have a systems administrator. Your librarian actually had exactly the answer for you.

[C]

Yes. And she knew what had happened. And I think it's interesting that they are phasing out E cards, and I guess it's because they want to make sure, and I think this is especially in California, that the taxpayers are getting access to the digital books, because, yes, even though they're digital books, they cost the library money.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But fun facts, because I was sharing this with Sarah, who has not had access to Libby being in Ojai or wasn't able to get a card. You know, it's all been a mystery to us that we've tried to unravel here and there the last year. And what we realized is all Californians can get a library card from anywhere in California. So even though, like, she's in Ventura county, she could come into a library in Tarzana and get a physical card in LA County. So it doesn't matter where you live in California. You just have to live in California.

[B]

So she could get a card at your branch and then she could use Libby at home in Ojai.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Because she's a California resident.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Well, it makes sense that certain people are paying taxes in order to support these resources. And so we want these resources to go to the people who are supporting them and not just anybody who somehow makes their way into the App. Okay.

[C]

And you know what though? Was kind of a nice. Also reframe for me on this is it's encouraging that the library needs to filter out people who want to check out books online.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm glad to know that many people are clamoring to get into the system, that they've actually taken the step of phasing out the E cards because that means people are wanting to listen to books.

[B]

Well. And was it nice to go into your branch? I mean, I love a library. Just walking into a library makes me so happy. And there's always interesting things on the bulletin board, odd things that you can check out and you can look at what's on the front table. And I often like to look at the returns. For some reason, I feel really snoopy and I love to snoop and see what other people have been checking out. I love to just walk into a library.

[C]

Yes. And it reminded me, gosh, I should check books out of the library. You know, mom and dad are always. Or obviously not dad anymore, but they always check books out of the library. And. And it is nice to have the physical book. So I do want to start doing that as well. It reminded me of that. I never think of doing it.

[B]

How far away is it from your house?

[C]

Like if you're driving, probably 10 to 12 minutes.

[B]

Okay, so that, I mean from LA, that's not so bad.

[C]

No, it's relatively close.

[B]

Yeah. In Kansas City, we always live super close to the library. And I live really close to my library. And it doesn't make a difference. Just like anything, you know, it's that strategy of convenience. Like any. Every little bit of convenience makes it easier to follow through. Which is why you love the Libby app. It's just like it's right there in

[C]

your phone, so it's so convenient. So anyway, I am happy that I have my Libby back. I was not right without it.

[B]

That's great.

[C]

How about you, Gretch? What's making you happier?

[B]

Well, now that I think about it, my thing is also phone related, which is the flashlight on the phone. I realize I should really feel grateful for this because probably every single day, one reason or another, I use the flashlight on my phone. So. So like when I get up in the morning, I like to get up and work before Taffy gets up and needs to go outside. So I sneak around the apartment so she doesn't know that I'm already awake. Cause I think if she knows I'm awake. So it's like having a baby. You know, when you're like trying not to wake up. So when I walk by the door where she is, I don't want to turn on the light and have the hall light under the door. So I just use my. My flashlight or like, I drop my earbud under the coffee table and I am looking for it, or it's dim and I can't read something. I just feel like a million times a day, I just turn it on and turn it off. And it's just one of these things that it's so easy to take it for granted, but it's actually a major convenience of everyday life now.

[C]

Yes. I mean, restaurants. Right. You always turn it on at restaurants to read the menu. And I wonder if there are fewer lights on tables or lights are dimmer in restaurants, because now 99% of people can just turn their flashlight on to look at the menu.

[B]

Yes. But, you know, the one time that I remember, really, and I think the flashlight might have been fairly new at this time, because I remember it being like, ooh, I have this thing. We were all in Napa Valley for our cousin's wedding, Elizabeth. When the earthquake struck in the middle of the night. And it was a big earthquake.

[C]

I mean, by far the biggest one I have ever been in or ever care to be in.

[B]

Yes. I mean, stuff was falling off the walls. It was shaking. It was nois.

[C]

The water splashed out of the toilets.

[B]

Yes. All the electricity went off. You could really, like, hear the silence of that. Anyway, so Jamie and I are, like, scrambling around the room. Of course I can't see anything. Cause I don't have my contacts in, so the first thing I need is my glasses. But then we had the flashlights on our phone, and so it was much easier for us to find our way into the hallway and get outside. And, you know, you just instantly grab for your phone and just made a very scary moment that much easier. Now, it's not a very strong flashlight. It's not like you could go and into a cave with it, but it's sure better than nothing.

[C]

Yes. And if you're walking at night and you don't have a regular flashlight, it's good to have it on just to alert people that you're walking. In my neighborhood, you don't need to do that. Obviously, in New York, but sometimes when

[B]

I'm rocking them someplace that's dark, it's just handy to have it. And I think this is a good example of sometimes the things that are the most helpful to us, we take for granted the most. We're not always talking about how great it is to have electricity, but obviously, we all love, love, love having electricity. And if the electricity goes out, we miss it terribly. But it's not going on your gratitude journal every day. And so this is the same kind of thing. It's a big boost to the convenience of everyday life. So it's making me happy to give gold stars to the little flashlight in my phone.

[C]

Well, it's making me happy to picture you sneaking around the apartment to not wake up Taffy. I'm thinking of you of like the Pink Panther cartoon at the beginning of the Pink Panther movie, right?

[B]

And instead of a giant magnifying glass, I'm holding my phone and tiptoeing dramatically. That's pretty much. You pretty much got the right picture in your head. Because I really. I really want to get my cup of coffee and do some work before she wakes up. But she's got sharp eyes and sharp ears.

[C]

Oh, my gosh, that cracks me up. Okay, Gretch, coming up, there is something you've been meaning to tell me. But first, this break. Foreign. Are you a trailblazer, a risk taker? Someone with countless tales of epic adventure? Well, I'm not quite there yet, but I'm working on it. Even the boldest among us started small, daring themselves to reach greater goals each day. If you're looking to take on a challenge like that, the Defender is too. It's a vehicle built for those capable of great things, whether you're charting new territory or just escaping the city for the weekend.

[B]

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[C]

There is something you've been meaning to tell me.

[B]

Okay. This is something that occurred to me as I was thinking about things. I don't even remember what now. And I just want to know what you think. Just what's your take on this? And it's the question of, like, are we expecting too much of different aspects of our lives? And I will tell you the way this comes up the most. Like, the way you hear this discussed, or at least I see it discussed. Is often when people are talking about marriage and divorce and why people break up and why they stay together, et cetera. I often read a paragraph where they say, well, in the past, marriage was a very different kind of institution. It was much more about families coming together. It was very much about property and security. But nowadays we have these really high expectations, and you expect a person to be your romantic partner and your life coach and your biggest cheerleader and your accountability partner and be your best friend. And that we just. Our expectations for marriage have just gotten so burdensome that it's just, of course people feel disappointed by their relationships, because who can do that? Okay, that's just something that I often see as an argument. I'm not saying I agree with it or I don't agree with it, but that's like something that I often see. But then I was thinking you could also say the same thing about the workplace. Like, do some people expect too much from the workplace? Like, they want it to be. Give them a sense of purpose and a sense of fun, and they get a mentor and they get their best friends, and it's going to be so much, many things. Or maybe it's they think their children's school is going to be that, and it's going to offer discipline and creativity and learning and challenge and nurturing and

[C]

make them into a good person.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, all these things. And friends, like, sometimes friends are like, oh, I have this toxic friend. And I'm like, it sounds like your friend is just like, really bad at answering their emails. You know what I mean? Or, like, doesn't answer texts. And I'm like, some of my best friends don't answer their texts, including my husband's. And of course we want to have high expectations because we want to expect good things from the people around us and from the institutions in our lives. So I guess another thing is, when is it too high? How do you know if it's too high? When does it become unrealistic? What is realistic? It's all very hard to define, but I just started thinking about that. What do you think?

[C]

Well, I think this is huge. I mean, when you say this, this strikes me as so true that we are expecting too much. It's like it's sort of like, take the word passion, right? Yeah. Like, what's my passion? I have to find my passion.

[B]

That's a great example.

[C]

Or you just need something solid that you somewhat enjoy. You know, not everyone has a passion for decorating cupcakes or something. You know what I mean? Where it's like, you just must do it. So I think it's really true. I definitely think it's true. True in marriage. Right. Like expecting your spouse to be all things or your whatever romantic partnership you're in. And I also, yeah, I find this, what people expect from friends can be way too much. Now, here's what I'll say. I do think a lot of times people gravitate to friends who have the same levels of expectation. Like, that kind of naturally starts to sift out. Right. My friends, I think, have very reasonable expectations for friendship, which is nice. I have one friend who. His thing is, like, we'll make plans to see each other every year, but we'll never actually see each other. But our friendship definition is that we bother to make the plan. To mention that we should make this plan.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I'm like, that works for me.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So, yeah, I think this is, across the board, an issue. And I'm sure we expect too much from our kids, too, right? Yes, I'm sure. I'm guilty of that.

[B]

Well, it's sort of along the same lines. I remember when I think it was. Eliza was young. It was, you know, you go in for your parent teacher conference, and it was something like, you know, Eliza, she needs to take risks and push herself more and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And as I left, I said to Jamie, I could just imagine if she did those things, they'd say, eliza needs to not take so many risks. And she, you know, it's sort of like, I think sometimes with our kids, it's like, we want you to be social but not too social. We want you to be excited, but not too excited.

[C]

We want you to stand up for yourself, but don't defy authority.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So anyway, it's something that I'm thinking about in the context of marriage. And then I think that I was also thinking about it in, like, the empty nest thing, because I do think that sometimes parents have an expectation of how much children want to be in communication with them once they're away.

[C]

And.

[B]

And they feel very disappointed and maybe even feel things like shut out. When to me, I'm like, that doesn't sound out. Like, one mother said to me, I'm estranged from my son. And I said, how so? And she said, he only texts me, like, two or three times a week. And I was like, to me, that

[C]

sounds like, especially a boy.

[B]

Yeah. And so part of it is, what are our expectations and how do we think about. And then it's, how do you come to the understanding of what is a realistic expectation. And, of course, we would all have our own view of that. But anyway, so it's interesting that to think this rings true for you, because this is just something I'm sort of starting to mull over.

[C]

I think it's an area where talking to other people could be very helpful.

[B]

Right.

[C]

We're saying, like, am I expecting too much from my husband? Am I expecting too much from my friend who lives across the country to show up for my 30th birthday party?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Am I expecting too much that my kid is gonna email me every single day?

[B]

Wait, I just thought of two perfect examples of this now from what you said. Okay, so one example is. And it shows the benefit of having low expectations, because then you're not hurt or disappointed if people don't do something. So one of the most helpful things that somebody said to me when I was starting out as a writer is he said, your friends won't read your books, and they won't come to your events. And I tell every writer who is a new writer that because they don't. They don't read your books and they don't come to your events. So don't expect that from your friends. And then you won't be disappointed or hurt, because some people get really, really hurt. And, like, they don't. And then another thing. I think I told you this story before, but a friend of mine wrote a memoir. It hadn't been published, but she had a draft of it, and she was waiting for her husband to read it, and she was super hurt because he wasn't reading it. And I said, well, you know, Jamie never reads anything that I write. And she was flabbergasted by that. And she said, but how do you not find that incredibly hurtful? And I said, I get it. You know, it's just. It kind of gives you the heebie jeebies when you're reading something like that from somebody who's really close to you. If there's something that really directly affects him, sometimes I'll have him read something just to make sure he's okay with it. But I understand why he doesn't want to. So I don't expect him to do it. And therefore, it doesn't hurt my feelings that he doesn't. And she was truly, like, her mind was blown by the fact that you could just not have that expectation.

[C]

Yeah, well, if you think about it logically, I mean, if your spouse sells insurance, you don't, like, go sit in on a meeting where they're telling someone about insurance, you don't read their policies. You don't read briefs, for the most part, probably from a lawyer or sit in on doctor visits. So I get it. Here's the thing. If they're not naturally interested, if it's material that they're naturally interested in, well, then it makes. They probably would read it.

[B]

Right. If you're both history professors writing about the American Revolution, you might be like, why aren't you reading my book about the American Revolution? Because you read everybody else's book about the American Revolution.

[C]

But.

[B]

Right. And also, I do think there's something. It's kind of like, you know, when, like, your kid is up on stage and you're sort of like, on the one hand, you're super excited. On the other hand, you kind of want to hide your eyes. There is a little bit of something when some somebody you love is doing something out in public. There is something uncomfortable about that. And so I sort of understand just thinking I kind of don't want to deal with it. I don't know. It just. It makes sense to me. So anyway, to your point that it can be helpful to talk to other people, I think it can be helpful because if you hear from others, oh, I don't hold that expectation. Sometimes you can just, even for yourself, decide, well, maybe I want to let go of that expectation, or maybe I want to hold onto that expectation. But at the very least, I should be clear about what my expectation is and not assume that it's just obvious and natural and everyone accepts it. Because it may be that there's a much wider range than you think.

[C]

Yes. And that will lead to feeling happier.

[B]

Yes, yes, exactly.

[C]

So I think this is a very big idea that we should return to time again. Thank you. This could really change people's lives.

[B]

It's a kind of reframing.

[C]

It is. You know, I love to reframe.

[B]

You do.

[C]

Okay, Gretch, what is our spotlight on a tool?

[B]

Well, I have to plug the last episode in this particular series of since youe Asked with Lori Gottlieb and Gretchen Rubin. That's my advice podcast that I do with Lori Gottlieb. It's advice with a twist. And you can just listen to since youe Asked anywhere you listen to podcasts. I'll put a link in the show notes, too. We tackle really big, juicy questions. It's so fun to read the questions. And we also always include a lot of people's responses because I love seeing how different people respond of these questions. So Anyway, yes, we're coming up on this last batch, so listen to since you asked.

[C]

Okay, Gretch, coming up. There is something I've been meaning to ask you, but first, this break.

[B]

Okay, Elizabeth, there's something you've been meaning to ask me. What is it?

[C]

Okay, Gretch, you have this audiobook couch called Get It Done, how to Complete youe Dream Project. And I feel like I completely missed the writing of this book. And I don't understand exactly what it is. I have not read it yet to your point of people not reading stuff, although, you know, I have read the vast majority of everything you've written. Yes, but I am just want to hear about it.

[B]

Well, this is an audiobook, so it's right up your alley, Phyllis. Is because it's something to listen to. Well, the reason that I did it and why it kind of happened quickly is because it like the flip side of everything that I talk about. Because what I realized is that whenever I talk about habits, I'm always like, usually when you're trying to be happier, healthier, more productive, more creative, what you're trying to do is cultivate a habit. You don't want to just train for the marathon. You want to exercise consistently for the rest of your life. You don't want to just finish your novel. You want to write consistently for the rest of your life, or you want to eat healthier for the rest of your life. What you're really trying to do is to build a habit of doing whatever it is you're doing. Okay? So I've been saying that for years, ever since I wrote better than before. But then it hit me. Sometimes people don't want a form of a habit. Sometimes they just do want to do a limited run thing. They have a project and they just want to get done with that project. And so it's all the things that I was thinking about with habits, but thinking about it in this different way. So make you do want to write your PhD thesis. That is what you want to get done. You aren't worried about writing consistently forever. Maybe that's a problem for a different day. Or like, you need to plan a big renovation. That is something that will come to an end. It's not something where you need to form a habit around it. It's much more about working steadily towards, like the big finish.

[C]

Right? Or plan a party.

[B]

Or plan a party. Exactly. That's a good example. And a lot of times people do have these dream projects that are hanging over their head and they just get stalled out and they get frustrated. And we all have these things that we're just like, how do I get started? Or I'm paralyzed or three quarters of the way through and I can't reengage. This thing is really important to me. Maybe it's something that I even love doing. And I don't understand why I can't complete it. But when you think about it as a habit, that leads you down. Like a certain kind of approach. And when you think of it as a project that you're trying to finish, that is a different approach. Now, in many ways, there's a lot of overlap. Like, one of the things is the four tendencies. Because the four tendencies influences everything about how we go about getting things done or requiring things of ourselves. And so that comes up, but it comes up in a different way. And so for me, it was super fun to shine a spotlight on something that had kind of been just on the edge of my vision and very relevant. I was certainly aware of this all the time. I had just never. I love habits so much. I'd always really lean into the habit part of it. So it was super energizing to think about getting all these projects done. Because people do get wildly energized. That is the thing. If you do one of these things and you get it done. It is just a gigantic bolt of energy and just like a sense of possibility. So it was just a joy to write. But it was stuff that I had thought about a lot. Kind of without realizing it.

[C]

Well, it's interesting. Cause you mentioned that you get three quarters of the way through and you don't finish. What is that? Cause I'm thinking of all the pieces. People out there who have, like, knitting. I feel like that's common where they're mostly done with a knitting project. But then they don't finish it. Is it because, like, finishing something is often a different skill set? Or they like having the sort of aspirational thing out there, they don't want to finish it. I mean, what do you think?

[B]

Well, a lot of things can be going on. One is, with creative projects, a lot of times people will lose interest at the end. Because if they were to finish, they would logically have to put it out into the world and risk rejection. So you will often. Elizabeth, you may know this of people who are writing screenplays or tv. I certainly know this with people writing novels and nonfiction. Which is, if they finish, then it would be like, oh, well, are you gonna submit it to an agent? And then they're like, but if I submit it to an agent, then I might get rejected and that would make me really upset. But if I never finish, then I never have to let go. That. So that can be one thing. So I always say to people, if you have a creative project and you suddenly lose interest right at the end, that is a big danger sign. Sometimes people are openers, not finishers. And so these are people who love art projects. But then they kind of lose interest. They're not interested in doing the work to push something over the line. So if you're an opener, this might be a problem that you face repeatedly. So you want to be aware of. That's kind of something that you might face is that you're like, oh, now I want to start another sweater instead of doing the fiddly work of finishing. And you're exactly right. Sometimes finishing requires a different set of skills. And sometimes you're like, oh, I want to do what's easy and fun. I don't want to have to do that, that hard thing, even though that hard last bit is what would really get me over the line. And so if you are at that three quarter point, it really is helpful to say, okay, the way that I really get the satisfaction of completion is pushing through that last quarter. And I think even to realize that this is a thing that happens. A lot of people feel it for a lot of different reasons. There's all these different strategies. You get yourself over the line and this is the reasons why you really might want to do that. I think it's helpful.

[C]

Well, it sounds very helpful. Is there, I assume, advice about, like, how to start a project? Because for me, I don't even start, like, I'm thinking, as you know, for years I've had like, do a Christmas card on my list. Well, I've never even taken the first step toward that. I mean, all I've done is collect addresses not even written on a piece of paper, just literally saving envelopes of people who send me cards.

[B]

Right.

[C]

That's the only step I've ever taken.

[B]

Right. You know, as your happiness bully. Now I want to like sit you down and really, like grill you about this, but I need to listen to the book clearly. Yes, yes, There's a lot about starting because, yeah, you're right. Starting is often the hardest part. Starting over is also really hard.

[C]

You've talked about that. Starting over.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Well, that's interesting to me that you had a revelation that sometimes you don't want to start a habit. You just want to do this one thing one time. Yes. That's interesting.

[B]

Good.

[C]

All right, well, thank you, Gretch. I've been wondering about that.

[B]

I really enjoyed it.

[C]

What is our quotation this week?

[B]

It comes from Iris Murdoch, the Good Apprentice. She loved the particular silence which the stilled life of flowers could give to a room. I love that.

[C]

Beautiful.

[B]

So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?

[C]

Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to Chuck. Bye, Gretch.

[B]

Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. Elizabeth, what is the deal with the dim light and the tiny gray print of menus? It's like, I feel like sometimes it's. It's. It's gotta be deliberate or something. They're so hard to read.

[C]

I know. I mean, the. The light is deliberate. Why the print can be hard to read, I can't imagine. Yeah, sometimes I'm like, is this English? I can't read this.

[B]

Is this an Italian? Like, yeah, it's frustrating.

[C]

Hi, Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here, we host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you. You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of.

[A]

Midst of major life transitions?

[B]

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever your get podcast, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships. Kiki Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success. Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.