More Happier: Do You Find It Hard to Plan a Party? And the Problem with “Everybody Likes Salmon”

Summary

Podcast Summary: More Happier: Do You Find It Hard to Plan a Party? And the Problem with “Everybody Likes Salmon”

Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin and Elizabeth Craft
Release Date: January 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of More Happier, Gretchen and her sister, Elizabeth, muse on the challenges and joys of planning parties, share tips gleaned from unexpected places (notably The Real Housewives), and discuss the pitfalls of assuming that “everybody likes salmon.” With their signature blend of wit, candor, and practicality, they explore how simple life tweaks—like a new Zoom setup or a well-themed party—can boost happiness in everyday life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What’s Making Us Happier This Week

Timestamps: 02:21 – 12:29

• Elizabeth’s Zoom Background Breakthrough:

  • Elizabeth finally solved her longstanding struggle with an unattractive Zoom background during video calls.
  • Solution: Her husband, Adam, suggested setting up a card table so her desk faced a wall with photographs and a bookcase instead of an ugly door.
  • Elizabeth remarks, “The whole time the answer was a card table.” (04:26 – Elizabeth)
  • Gretchen extols the virtues of card tables: “They take up no space because you just fold them up… they are really the workhorses of a household.” (05:26 – Gretchen)
  • The sisters discuss "clutter magnets"—Elizabeth’s new card table is already gathering stuff, but her treadmill desk is staying clearer.

• Gretchen’s Disproportionate Joy in a Tennis Bag:

  • Gretchen talks about the “disproportionate joy” she feels from her husband Jamie’s upgraded tennis bag—a sleek, upright backpack design.
  • “Beautiful tools make work a joy. That’s one of my secrets of adulthood.” (10:27 – Gretchen)
  • The improved design makes it easier to carry and store, offering a small but steady source of satisfaction.

• Gift Bags as a Theme:

  • Elizabeth’s tradition of gifting bags and travel accessories to Gretchen’s daughters is highlighted as a thoughtful habit that “works for them and you in the bag situation.” (12:23 – Gretchen)

2. Lessons in Party Planning from The Real Housewives

Timestamps: 16:11 – 23:47

• The Value of a Theme:

  • Elizabeth shares her favorite Real Housewives lesson: themed parties make hosting easier and gatherings more memorable.
  • She differentiates between overwhelming dress-up themes (e.g. “Great Gatsby”) and light, implicit themes (e.g. a Valentine’s party with pink napkins and flowers).
  • “When you have a mild theme, it really does elevate a party and as the host gives you ideas for ways to make it feel special.” (17:21 – Elizabeth)

• Easy, Low-Lift Themes:

  • Valentine’s Day, “white parties” (everyone wears white), or tying things to a TV show or time of year are suggested for making gatherings more lively without burdening guests.

• Naming & Invitations:

  • Using digital invitation tools like Paperless Post (on Gretchen’s “26 for 26” list) adds a sense of occasion, even for a small group: “Just four people… it would make it more of a thing.” (18:13 – Gretchen)
  • Creative party names, like “Mahjong Mayhem at Liz’s,” increase the sense of fun.

• Reducing Decision Fatigue:

  • Gretchen points out that having a theme helps reduce the mental load of planning by offering clear direction for decorations and menu items.
  • Examples from listeners and their own lives reinforce the whimsy and ease a light theme can bring to hosting.

• Optional Participation Themes:

  • Gretchen describes her children's literature book club’s holiday party, where guests can optionally bring a dessert inspired by a book—a way of including everyone without pressure.

3. The Problem With “Everybody Likes Salmon”

Timestamps: 28:10 – 34:45

• Disliking “Uncontroversial” Foods:

  • Gretchen poses the question: What is a food people assume everyone likes, but you don’t?
  • Elizabeth’s answer: “Oh, Gretchen, I hate salmon.” (28:52 – Elizabeth)
  • The sisters discuss how salmon is often served because it's perceived as a universally liked, “safe” dish—a perception that’s clearly flawed.
  • Elizabeth shares she’ll proactively tell hosts, “I know it’s weird, but I hate salmon. Just FYI, because it is something that people serve so much.” (29:27 – Elizabeth)

• On Being Open About Preferences:

  • Gretchen argues that people are often too wary about voicing dislikes, but being upfront allows hosts to accommodate with less stress.
  • “People can wrap their minds around it and deal with it.” (31:05 – Gretchen)

• Mushrooms as a Semicontroversial Food:

  • Gretchen shares her own “commonly liked but disliked by me” food: mushrooms.
  • She and Elizabeth recall their childhood task of slicing raw mushrooms—nostalgia for the utensil, not the taste!
  • They discuss how some food trends (like serving raw vs. cooked mushrooms) come and go.

4. Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Card Tables and Clutter:

  • “Every available surface that you have becomes a clutter magnet.” (06:37 – Gretchen)

• Party Themes, the Easy Way:

  • “My favorite kind of theme party is the kind that guests don’t need to know about, but they just show up and a theme has been decided.” (21:38 – Elizabeth)

• Food Preferences & Etiquette:

  • “If you’re very clear about something, people can wrap their minds around it and deal with it. ... They just accept that it’s just part of you.” (31:05 – Gretchen)

• Childhood Memory:

  • “Remember enjoying when our task from our mother was to take off the stem, put the head in that slicer thing, and slice them.” (34:07 – Gretchen)

• On Things That Seem Useless:

  • Quotation from Akiko Busch:
    • “Isn’t there an enormous difference between something that is never used and something that is useless? And if something like a front door serves a basic human need for symbolic meanings, isn’t that also serving a function?”
    • (34:50 – Gretchen, quoting Akiko Busch, The Geography of Home)

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Additional Highlights

• Tool Spotlight: Gretchen invites listeners to join her “super fans” group for early access and occasional input. (23:52)
• Behind-the-scenes: Elizabeth’s treadmill desk and the daily quest for clear surfaces are ongoing themes in her workspace happiness.
• Sisterly Dynamic: As ever, Elizabeth’s realism and Gretchen’s discipline (plus her “happiness bully” tendencies) balance the conversation.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:21 – Elizabeth’s Zoom background and the card table solution
• 10:27 – Gretchen’s joy in a new tennis bag
• 16:11 – Lessons from The Real Housewives: why party themes help
• 21:38 – Making themes optional for guests (e.g., dessert inspired by children’s literature)
• 28:52 – The myth that “everybody likes salmon” challenged
• 31:05 – The value of stating food preferences upfront
• 34:50 – Quote from Akiko Busch (The Geography of Home)
• 36:23 – End of core episode content

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Takeaway Wisdom

• Simple, practical changes—like rearranging a workspace or setting a playful party theme—can meaningfully boost your sense of happiness and ease.
• Don’t be afraid to voice your preferences or pet peeves, be it for food or party style; clarity is a kindness to hosts, not an imposition.
• Themes don’t have to be burdensome—they can be light, optional, and still make gatherings memorable.
• Small joys (like a well-designed bag or a clever party name) pack an outsized punch of happiness.

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For Further Connection

• See photos and links referenced (e.g., Jamie’s tennis bag) via the show's social platforms.
• Check out the “super fans” group for deeper engagement.
• Visit happiercast.com/superfan for more on joining the community.

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In the words of Gretchen Rubin:
“The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” (35:32)

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

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[A]

Lemonada.

[B]

Hello, we're here for More Happier a podcast where we get happier. It's the weekend. It's observations and reflections with a looser vibe. Hey Elizabeth.

[A]

Hi Gretch.

[B]

Today we'll talk about a party giving hack from the Real Housewives and we'll reveal what mushrooms and salmon have in common. But first, something making us happier. Elizabeth, what's something making you happier?

[A]

Well Gretch, you can see see what is making me more happier which is that I finally have a decent zoom background. This has been plaguing me since the pandemic. My background if I sit at my desk is an ugly door to our office and if I wanted a nice background like say I'm pitching a show and I want to look nice, I would have to do it in the dining room. Yes, where where I have a nice background. But then I'd be like having to have people leave the house. I would be terrified the dogs would be barking cause I would put them in their crates but they can still bark. What if the doorbell rings?

[B]

Yeah, your dining room is right in the center of your house, right by the front door. And if you're going to the kitchen. You have to walk by the dining room. If you're going outside, you. It's just the traffic center of your household. And the thing about a door as a background is you can't cover up a door. Oh, let's put a bookcase in front of the door. A door has to be a door. Yeah. I've been meaning to give you a gold star for this, Elizabeth, because it has been something that you have lamented but without seeing a solution. So describe your solution and how did you come up with this fairly simple solution once you did it? I was like, oh, my gosh, how has she just figuring this out now? But it never occurred to me.

[A]

So actually I have to give Adam the gold star for this. He figured it out. So it came about because once again, I needed a good zoom background. And you had suggested maybe trying something in the guest room.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So Adam saw me, like, trying to maneuver having the computer on the bed and me sitting on like a poof in front of it. And very uncomfortable because this is what.

[B]

I did when I was in your house when I needed to record. You actually have a bookcase that's really stylish and good looking. It makes a great background. But you're in a bedroom, so you have to, like, figure that out. Yeah. Okay. So that was a hassle.

[A]

So anyway, I was like asking him for extension cords, and he was like, wait, what are you doing? And then it just hit him. He said, wait a second. Why don't we just put a card table in front of your desk and have you go the opposite way so that I basically just swing around my desk chair and instead of looking at the wall, I'm looking away from the wall and the wall, which has all sorts of photos and a bookshelf is behind me. So the whole time the answer was a card table. Which is funny, Gretchen, because one of your life hacks is that everyone should have a card table. Yes, I actually have two card tables, which both get used all the time.

[B]

Well, the thing is, I kind of want another card table because I rectangular card table, which I love and use. But then sometimes I'm like, I just want a little square card table too. But a person doesn't need two card tables. But maybe they do need two card tables.

[A]

Oh, they do.

[B]

Hold up. Let's take a side note to talk about why card tables make us happier. Yes, they take up no space because you just fold them up. If you need a card table, then nothing else will do. It solves a problem. If you're faking it. Like, I'll use my bed as a desk or I'll drag this thing over it. Just there's always all these hassles that you're like, oh, but if I just have a card table, I just immediately have space for this thing that I want. And also, the thing I love about card tables is you don't care about the surface, because if you have a nice table, you want the surface to stay nice. But if it's a card table, okay, somebody gets a Sharpie mark on it or somebody puts down a coffee cup on it or something, it doesn't matter. Because in the end, at least the way I use card tables, they don't have nice surfaces. So they are really. They're these workhorses of a household, but they don't have to be fit in permanently. Okay, but back to the most important thing, which is your new zoom setup. Okay, here is the thing that I worry about, Elizabeth, on your behalf.

[A]

Yes. Can you guess that it'll get really messed up?

[B]

Yes. Okay. Because there's two things you could do. One is you could take down the card table every single time. But you record a lot.

[A]

Yes. That's not happening.

[B]

You're recording all the time. And I worry about you because every available surface that you have becomes a clutter magnet. But you've wanted to stay on your treadmill desk. So maybe the solution is everything you would have put on your treadmill desk, you put on your card table, and you just let the card table sink into clutter and accept it that that's what it's for. And then it serves its purpose very well as a surface to allow you to have a nice background and to treadmill on your treadmill desk. I don't know. What do you think?

[A]

I don't know, Gretch. I'll take a picture right now and I'll send it to you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which you called it. So, yes, it is cluttered.

[B]

Okay. But have you kept the treadmill desk clear?

[A]

It's not clear, but it's clear enough that I can be on it every day.

[B]

My gosh. See, Elizabeth, I just wouldn't be able to work like this. I mean, it would just make my mind melt down. But it's okay for you. I mean, I see a mug, I see a water glass. I see your AirPod case, which is branded happier. Thank you. You and I are probably the only ones who have happier podcast branded AirPod cases. Is that an electric blanket? What is that? There's all kinds of gizmos there's coasters. There's that. What is that white thing which looks like a remote control from the 1980s. I don't know what paper that's for.

[A]

My heater in the room. The thing that you think is an electric blanket is a pillow for my sound.

[B]

That's fair enough. Okay.

[A]

I should clear it off. But I do just need to accept that this is permanent. I mean, there is no way I can take it down and put it.

[B]

Up time and again. No, no, no, no, no. You're recording all the time. Maybe it's not practical all the time. Yeah.

[A]

So anyway, Gretch, that is what is making me happier. My lovely new Zoom background. What is making you happier?

[B]

Yes. And go check us out on YouTube or wherever if you're curious to see what Elizabeth looks like. She looks extremely elegant. Only if you see the behind the scenes. Do you know what utter clutter is surrounding her?

[A]

Lurking beneath.

[B]

Yeah, lurking beneath. But that's the beauty of Zoom, is you just clear up what's visible. So this is what is making me happier. And this is like a vicarious thing. Well, your card table is making me happier, Elizabeth, so that's one thing. But, Jane, Jamie got a new tennis bag. Okay, so the tennis bag. Jamie had a tennis bag that he used. I mean, for as long as I can remember. Right. He used this tennis bag all the time. And Jamie loves to play tennis, and he's been playing. And then I would say in the last five years, he's been playing more tennis. So he plays tennis fairly regularly. So this thing is around quite a bit. And I would sometimes be moving it here or there. You know how it is. Even it's not yours. You're aware of it generally. And it was kind of annoying, the way that it was constructed. The handles were too short to sort of go over your shoulder. The way that it held the weight of the tennis racket was kind of off. But truly, I never thought about it. I mean, it was just this tennis bag. I mean, who would ever stop to consider it or ponder it? And then for some reason, I don't know why, maybe it kind of got smelly, which wouldn't surprise me. Cause he always has those, like, sweaty clothes in there. Jamie got a new tennis bag, which is more like a backpack style, I would say, where it's more upright. I don't think he actually puts it on his back, but you could put it on your back. It's got a top handle, so you could carry it from the top. And it is just a Far superior design. I mean, the minute I picked it up, I was like, this is so much easier to carry. It's so much easier to store because instead of being this awkward thing that either was vertical along the floor, and therefore it took up a lot of space, or. Or if you put it upright, it would just fall down and bang into things. It was just always in the way. This just has a kind of a way that it just stands up tidily, so it takes up the least amount of space. And of course, it's also shiny and new, so it feels clean and, you know, has that newer look. The zippers all work very easily.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Every time I see it, I'm like, beautiful tools make work a joy. That's one of my secrets of adulthood. And things that are just very well designed for their purpose are just pleasing and just that there's been this upgrade in this design of this ordinary thing, which I'm sure he'll have for 15, 20 years. It's like I just get a little zip of pleasure. Well, what is it that you and Sarah talk about? Disproportionate joy.

[A]

Disproportionate joy?

[B]

Yes. Yeah, I get disproportionate joy just because it's doing its little job so well. I feel like the old tennis bag, you worked hard and you did your best, and you went off to the great bags that have had their day. Yeah. But this is really good. And it is just something that every time I see it or have to move it from this place to that place. Cause he's left it right in the middle of the floor in front of the front door, everything about it is better.

[A]

Well, Gretch, I think I speak for the entire audience when I say we need to see this bag. Will you post a photo or a link to the bag? Do you know what kind of bag it is?

[B]

No. That is a great question. I never looked. It's just black. But here's the thing. I think anybody looking at it will be like, you know what? That is just a regular tennis bag. There's absolutely nothing special about that tennis bag. But because it's so much better than the other tennis bag. But, yes, I will post a picture and I will post a link, but don't be surprised if it's utterly unremarkable. And like, I built it into this big thing because it's probably just a tennis bag, but it does make me happier.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that is so satisfying, though. I know that feeling. And, you know, I love a good bag.

[B]

You love a good bag. Yes.

[A]

I wish that I could justify having a lot of bags, but I give them to Eliza and Eleanor.

[B]

No, they love your bags. I think three years in a row you've given them a bag and then before that you gave them packing cubes. And I think before that you gave them like jewelry cases. And they use all that stuff all the time. You're like well known as being this excellent gift giver of bags.

[A]

Well, happy to be.

[B]

So buy the gift you wish you could buy for yourself so it works for them and you in the bag situation.

[A]

All right, Gretch. Coming up, I have a lesson from the Real Housewives. But first this break. Gretchen we talk about ways to be happier, and there is no question that getting one's finances in order is a major aspect of happiness. Managing your money doesn't have to be a struggle this year. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth and future planning together in one dashboard on your laptop or phone. Start your new year on the right foot financially and get 50% off your monarch subscription with Code Happy.

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[A]

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[A]

All right, Gretch. Well, we have been talking a lot about parties on the podcast, about raising your hand to host, about the connections you make and all of that and the joy of a party. And the house Housewives are known for having parties. That's one of the central things in the show, is that they each take turns having parties and events.

[B]

Ah.

[A]

And one thing they often do, and this is the lesson, is they apply some sort of theme to the party. So it might be an 80s theme. It might be the Great Gatsby. One time, one of the OC Housewives had a Traitor's party because she had actually been on Traitors.

[B]

The Game Show Traders.

[A]

The Game Show Traders, yes. And the thing about it is, I don't like a party where I have to dress up. The Great Gatsby is not a party I'm dying to go to because I don't want to have to go full flapper. Yeah, but when you have a mild theme, it really does elevate a party. And as the host gives you ideas for ways to make it feel special.

[B]

And specific, what are some examples of a light theme or an easy theme?

[A]

Well, for example, I think if you're having any gathering in February, whether it's two people or 20, it can be a Valentine's party, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's one of the easiest themes. Right. Because you don't even have to tell anyone it's a Valentine's party. But when they arrive, you can have pink flowers and you can have pink napkins and, you know, it's just an easy way to create an atmosphere.

[B]

Heart shaped butter cookies that are really cute or something like that as the dessert. Right, right, right.

[A]

Yes. So it's a way to personalize. Also, I think it's really nice. I've talked in the past about how I think sending a paperless post really can elevate a gathering, even a small gathering.

[B]

So listen, this is what you know how on my 26 for 26 list, learn to use. Paperless post is one of my things, which I'm sure people are like, that's hilarious. That's so easy. Why are you even including that? But part of it is. Cause I think you're right. Like, even if it's just four people, a paperless post thing would make it more of a thing. Not just something like, oh, we're all texting and getting together at some random coffee shop. It's like, oh, this is a thing that's happening and that's fun.

[A]

Yeah. And you can name something which also always elevates it. So say, you know, if I'm gonna host four people for mahjong now, for mahjong, I would not do this. Probably because it would be more of a regular thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But maybe I would. But you could name it, you know, mahjong Mayhem at Liz's. And then suddenly it's like an event. Mah jong is another activity that has many items of swag that you can put around.

[B]

Well, part of it is it also reduces decision fatigue because once you commit, you're like, okay, this is the theme that we're doing it. Then you know, a color, then it suggests little touches that you could put around. I remember years ago, I think this might have been our first year. Elizabeth, a listener, was saying she would celebrate the first day of spring. And I think she said she had that for her. Watermelon was the first day of spring and she had special watermelon plates. And so she would always use them to celebrate that date. Like, let's say you were even just having a book club thing. You could be like, oh, it's first day of spring. Just by chance, let me lean into that and I'll have a bouquet of flowers associated with spring or pastel or whatever it might be, just to make it feel more festive and more fun. Everybody wants the whimsy. You could bring the whimsy. And you know Alyssa. Something that you do. And I want to do this the next time. There's, like, a big signature television show that I'm watching. I am watching Pluribus. You know how I always say, oh, why don't I watch a big show that everybody's watching? I always watch Mad Men ten years later, and then nobody wants to talk about it because they all watched it 10 years ago. I am watching Pluribus. Like, let's say that there was some huge, epic season premiere or season finale or something like that. You go to these parties, and I think that's a really fun reason to have a party.

[A]

My friends Adam and Alison have these, and I have to say, they always have food that's named for the show.

[B]

Oh, fun.

[A]

I always get a T shirt for the show, and it really does just make you smile. I would be remiss, by the way, since we're talking about housewife parties, if I didn't mention one of the most iconic housewife parties is Kyle Richards, who's a Beverly Hills housewife, used to have. Have every year a white party.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Now, that's one of the easiest themes there is. Right. Because you can just have everybody wear white. Now, I can't imagine myself having a white party unless it was sort of ironic, you know, just kitschy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I would love to go to a white party. If someone said, come to a white party, I mean, I would love it. Everybody has something white in their closet.

[B]

Well, and here's the thing is, I do think the world is kind of divided into people who love to dress up in costumes as adults and people who do not love, because there are clearly people who. They're running out the door to get their costume if they're at the slightest opportunity. But the thing that's nice about the white is you can cobble that together. I don't like the idea of, like, buying a bunch of stuff that I'm never actually gonna wear again. Yes. But something like white, you can figure it out. Yes.

[A]

That's why I prefer a Valentine's party to a great Gatsby party. Because I don't want to have to rent something or buy something and then, like, have to store it and then wonder, will I ever wear this again? And all of that. But I think my favorite kind of theme party is the kind that the guests don't need to know about, but they just show up and a theme has been decided.

[B]

You're just delighted by it. Well, here's sort of an optional theme, which I think is funny. Okay. So I'm in these children's literature reading groups, and they're so big. There's multiple ones. There used to be three. Now there's two, because two of them combined. So every year around the holidays, I have a holiday party. And this is the time when all of the kidlit members come together. And sometimes members that haven't been able to come for several years will come to this party. Cause our theme is no guilt. And I'm like, even if you can't come for a couple years, you can always come back. And so, anyway, so a lot of people there don't know each other, but they all know that they love children's literature. So it's super fun. And all I do is drinks and dessert. But what I say to people is, if you would like to. If it would be fun for you, you are invited to bring a dessert that is inspired by a work of children's literature. So this is a theme where everybody enjoys it because once they go, they see what other people have done. And that is super fun. But you don't have to do it. Would I do it? No. What I used to do is I would buy a cake and write on it, Eat me. Because I have all my holiday decorations that are Alice in Wonderland them. And so I would have an Eat me cake. And sometimes I'll do things like they're eating brownies in one of Elizabeth Enright's books. And it's just such a satisfying description of brownies that I had brownies in the book. But some people go bonkers. Like, somebody made a whole cake that was designed, like, Lorax with Lorax trees. Somebody made golden snitches. All different kinds of things. Then sometimes people just bring, like, cookies. But it's a theme that you can enjoy just marveling at what other people have done, or you can do it yourselves. And yet it gives kind of a theme to the desserts, which is really, really fun. Yes. All right. It's the Real Housewives. They teach us so much.

[A]

They do. They do. All right, Gretchen, what is the spotlight on a tool this week?

[B]

Super fans. I love my super fans. I so appreciate my super fans. Some of my super fans have been super fans for years. If you would like to be a super fan, I invite you to sign up. If you are a member of the Superfan group, that group gets early access to projects and tools and features. Sometimes I offer, like, a little bonus or a big discount. Sometimes I ask for advice or I ask people to weigh in on things when I feel like, okay, I need some enthusiasts to weigh in and help me figure something out. I love this group. If you feel like signing up, go to happiercast.com superfan I promise you this is not something burdensome. I will not contact you often. Only for fun things, I hope.

[A]

Well, I'm not officially a super fan, but I think I qualify.

[B]

Oh, of course. Yes.

[A]

All right, Gretch, coming up, there's something you've been meaning to ask me. But first, this break. Gretch as we dive into 2026 on the podcast, we know that so many of us want to focus on wellness and I love that. Whole Foods Market is basically a one stop shop for wellness. You can get great lean protein, you can find good vitamins, they have meal shortcuts. If you're doing dry January, Whole Foods Market has great non alcoholic beer, wine and mocktails. Of course you have to be 21 in select states to get those, but it's all stuff you can get for a good price.

[B]

Yes, you can find examples of nourishing and cost friendly finds that will help you towards whatever your wellness goal is. And everything follows Whole Food Market's strict ingredient standards. Plus their 365 brand has delicious and wallet happy varieties of all kinds of foods that are ready to eat or whatever you're looking for. Shop all things wellness at Whole Foods.

[A]

Market Starting the year with a wardrobe refresh. Quince has you covered with luxe essentials that feel effortless and look polished. They're perfect for layering, mixing and building a wardrobe that lasts. Gretch I am wearing one of my favorite Quint sweaters right now, my Jersey red Mongolian cashmere sweater. It has held up so well. I wear it all the time.

[B]

I have one in green that I wear all the time too. Quint's has all the staples covered from soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the markup. The ones we love to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear. Eleanor is going to head back to school and I cannot wait to give her a new cashmere sweater as well. Refresh your wardrobe with quints. Don't wait. Go to Quince.com Gretchen for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Gretchen to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Gretchen are you a trailblazer?

[A]

A risk taker? Someone with countless tales of epic adventure. Well, I'm not quite there yet, but I'm working on it. Even the boldest among us started small, daring themselves to reach greater goals each day. If you're looking to take on a challenge like that, the Defender is too. It's a vehicle built for those capable of great things, Whether you're charting new territory or just escaping the city for the weekend.

[B]

The Defender engineered to meet challenges head on so you can explore with confidence. An icon reimagined designed for a new generation of explorers. Choose from the Defender 90, 110 or 130. Seating up to eight adventurers with a tough, tested exterior, a modern and functional interior, and intelligent tech like 3D surround cameras and the Pivi Pro infotainment system. Every journey feels limitless because, like you, the Defender is capable of great things. Build your defender [e-mail] all right, Gretch, we're back.

[A]

What have you been meaning to ask me?

[B]

Okay, this is a question that I will admit is quite pointless, but I do think it's interesting. And I was thinking about you. And I was thinking, I feel like I know you so well, but I don't know the answer to this question about you. So is there a food, and if so, what is the food that most people love that you dislike? Not something that's famously controversial, like anchovies or Brussels sprouts or oysters, where it's like, everybody knows that a lot of people don't like those things. What is something where, like, oh, everybody loves this thing, and you're like, no, I do not like this thing. I was trying to think if there was anything that fit that description for you, and I couldn't think of anything. Is there anything? Yes.

[A]

Oh, Gretchen, I hate salmon.

[B]

I did not know that. Really?

[A]

And most people love salmon. You eat salmon all the time, don't you?

[B]

I do. I have kind of gotten tired of it, I would say, because I have eaten a lot of salmon. Well, it's interesting, Elizabeth, because I feel like salmon is often. I think there is a perception that most people like it. Like, often if you're at a dinner party or something, they serve salmon because they're like, this is a fish that most people like. And people who are vegetarians can eat salmon. So do you often find that you're confronted with salmon?

[A]

Well, I used to, more than I do now. I will say I dislike it so much that if someone's having me over for dinner and if they throw out, like, in the text chain, hey, let me know if there's something you don't eat. I will say, I know it's weird, but I hate salmon. Just FYI because it is something that people serve so much. And I know, look, I wouldn't care if I went somewhere and someone served salmon. I would be fine just not eating the salmon. Yes, but I know how it is when you're having someone over and you serve something and they hate it, you are wishing you serve something else. That's just human nature. So I've just decided let people know that I don't eat salmon. Now I will say another thing I also might throw out, depending on the person, is lamb. I mean, and I don't think everybody likes lamb, but I definitively just can't eat one bite of lamb.

[B]

I have never been served lamb. I don't think. I mean, I've had it at restaurants where a person could order it, but I don't think anybody's ever served it to me. Huh.

[A]

Some people serve lamb, although I think it's less common now.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

But anyway, the only time I will eat a salmon bite of salmon occasionally is a sushi. Sometimes I'll have like salmon sushi, but at that point I make it so covered with wasabi that it's really just a vessel for wasabi. It's not something I'm particularly tasting. But cooked salmon I definitely dislike more than raw salmon.

[B]

But you know, here's the thing. And I don't. Maybe you've noticed this is. I think sometimes people are scared to speak up about their preferences. And of course you wanna be a good guess. You don't wanna be a super picky, like, I've got a million things on your list.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if you're very clear about something, people can wrap their minds around it and deal with it. I think sometimes people are too worried about being considerate. And maybe this is cause there is that side to me that is a little inconsiderate. I know that's one thing that I deal with because I don't eat sugar. You can make the fanciest, this most special dessert. It's like, am I gonna eat it? No, I am not. Because I don't eat sugar. But now say in my kidly groups where people are often presenting dinners, nobody gets their feelings hurt. Nobody's saying, hey, Gretchen, why aren't you eating this? Or Gretchen, why aren't you taking a big heaping serving of lasagna? I don't need flour, I don't need pasta. So they're like, oh, that's just Gretchen with her quirky ways, and they just let me be. And I think that that's good. So somebody could be like, oh, let's Liz. Like, she just hates salmon. And they just accept that it's just part of you. And I think sometimes people don't give each other enough credit, understanding that people can just accept that and say, this is just somebody who's got this thing that they're dealing with.

[A]

It's funny. I want to hear what you don't like, but it reminds me of. Adam loves beats more than anything in the world, and that's one of those polarizing stories.

[B]

It is, yes.

[A]

He is constantly on the hunt for people who will back him up on how much they love beats. Cause Jack and I both hate beets, as do most members of his family. So it's just funny because he'll be constantly asking people how they feel about beets. And he loves it when he finds a fellow beet lover.

[B]

Well, come to my house. Everybody likes beets but me.

[A]

I know and I know it. If I get one that looks like a tomato and I accidentally eat it, my whole body rebels.

[B]

Oh, side note, the other night, Jamie ordered something at a restaurant, and I was like, ooh, look at these big, delicious olives. And I popped one in my mouth just as he was saying, I don't think that's an olive.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And it was a caramelized onion.

[A]

Oh, funny.

[B]

It was a very small caramelized onion, but then again, it would have been a very large olive. But, I mean, if you think you're biting into an olive and it's actually an onion, it was super, super unpleasant. So when you think you're getting one thing and you're getting another thing, that is a very disconcerting taste sensation, for sure.

[A]

But, Gretch, What? Do you not like that most people like mushrooms?

[B]

Are mushrooms controversial? I don't know, but I really do not like mushrooms. I do not like their texture. I do not like the flavor. I do not like having to pick them out of things, which I often feel like I am doing. Are mushrooms controversial or not?

[A]

I think they're semi controversial. I like cooked mushrooms. I do not like raw mushrooms, which I feel like nobody serves raw mushrooms anymore. When we were growing up, I feel like that was a thing.

[B]

Well, I really remember. Remember enjoying when our task from our mother was to take off the stem, put the head in that slicer thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And slice them.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I would love doing that.

[A]

Yes. That's why I think I have the impression that a lot of people served raw mushrooms, I guess, in salad.

[B]

Do they do that anymore? I don't feel like I do encounter them in that form. See, I don't like them cooked either. Obviously. So. Huh. That is interesting. It is funny how foods can be trendy. Yes. I haven't thought about that. What do you call that slicer thing? Can you picture it in your mind?

[A]

Oh, yes. It's what we also use to slice boiled eggs. Yes. Yes. I love that slicer.

[B]

I don't know. Well, yeah. So mushrooms and salmon. Okay, Elizabeth, I know what we will not be eating the next time we're together.

[A]

Yes, none of that on the reading retreat.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Okay. Finally, Gretch, what is our quotation this week?

[B]

This is from Akiko Bush from the Geography of Home. Isn't there an enormous difference between something that is never used and something that is useless? And if something like a front door serves a basic human need for symbolic meanings, isn't that also serving a function? I love that there's a difference between something that's never used and something that's useless. Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?

[A]

Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to Chuck. And if you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect time. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcast or go to lemonadapremium.com. bye, Gretch.

[B]

Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. So, Elizabeth, I'm really hoping that having the card table will make it easier for you to use your treadmill desk, which is part of move 26 and 26 for you, right?

[A]

Yes. Now, Gretch, in our office, we now have basically four desks. Adam's desk, my desk, the card table, and the treadmill desk. So I should be able to keep the treadmill desk clear with that many desks in one room.

[B]

I love a surface. From the onward project.

[A]

Hi, Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here. We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you. You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?

[B]

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever you get podcasts, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Keke Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success, Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.