More Happier: The Joy of Giving Away Toys, the Pleasure of Parasocial Relationships & TV Tourism

Summary

Happier with Gretchen Rubin

Episode: More Happier: The Joy of Giving Away Toys, the Pleasure of Parasocial Relationships & TV Tourism
Air Date: October 4, 2025
Hosts: Gretchen Rubin & Elizabeth Craft

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Overview

In this episode, Gretchen and Elizabeth dive into the emotional dynamics and happiness strategies surrounding three engaging topics:

1. Letting go of childhood toys and the bittersweet joy of decluttering
2. The positive role of parasocial relationships in our lives
3. The compelling concept of TV and "screen tourism"—visiting real-life locations from beloved films and series

The sisters also highlight memorable personal stories, offer happiness-boosting advice, share notable quotes, and discuss the ongoing importance of quality screen time.

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What's Making Us Happier?

[02:46 – 08:39]

Elizabeth: The Joy of Giving Away Toys

• Clearing out her son Jack’s old toys:
  • "I am finally getting rid of some of Jack's toys from when he was young, clearing out space... That is great. And [my friend] is very happy to get them." – Elizabeth [02:46]
• Emotional layers of letting go:
  • Admits some items are bittersweet to part with (“I remember when he loved Minecraft”), but happiness comes with the extra space.
• Gretchen inquires:
  • Are photos being taken for memories?
    • Elizabeth: Not yet, only easy-to-let-go items so far.
  • Is Jack involved?
    • Elizabeth: Yes, but only with items with no strong emotional pull for him so far.
• Keeping some for herself:
  • Elizabeth keeps iconic toys like the Thomas the Train wooden set and Star Wars items for possible grandchildren: “It's really more about me than Jack, to be honest.” [05:43]

Gretchen: Why it’s easier to give away when you know who will use it

• Emphasizes how donating to someone specific (like Elizabeth with her picture books) makes decluttering easier and happier:
  • “Knowing that I was giving them to you completely changed my feelings of the stickiness of them.” – Gretchen [06:58]

Decluttering as Activation

• By removing what they no longer need, games and toys they actually use are more available, making day-to-day life feel richer.
  • “Sometimes when you clear clutter, you actually feel like you have more because the stuff that you actually, actually use is more activated and more available.” – Gretchen [08:23]

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New Podcast Alert!

[08:40 – 10:03]

• Gretchen celebrates the launch of her new podcast with Lori Gottlieb, "Since You Asked."
  • “We are having so much fun with this show. I hope everybody will give it a shot.” – Gretchen [08:40]
• Elizabeth shares her love for advice podcasts and highlights the creative energy of Gretchen's new project.

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Parasocial Relationships: What Are They and Why Do They Matter?

[12:56 – 20:45]

Defining Parasocial Relationships

• Gretchen defines parasocial relationships as “a one-way emotional connection where you feel like you’re friends with somebody... who you don’t actually know in real life. Maybe it’s a celebrity, maybe it is a fictional character, maybe it is a podcast host.” [13:17]

The Happiness Value

• Both hosts agree that parasocial relationships enrich their lives—so long as they supplement, not replace, real-life interactions.
  • “Having these parasocial relationships does make our lives feel richer... It’s still valuable for me.” – Gretchen [13:56]
  • Elizabeth shares the joy she gets from reality TV podcasts, feeling more attached to the hosts than even the shows themselves.
    • “I enjoy listening to Tyson talk about Survivor more than I actually enjoy Survivor because I like Tyson.” – Elizabeth [14:27]

The Comfort of Consistency

• Gretchen notes:
  • “Part of it is it’s very reliable... This is something where it’s the middle of the night, you can’t sleep. You know you can turn it on...” [16:11]
• Elizabeth on the reliability and mood benefit:
  • “If I know if I turn on Drama Darling, I am going to laugh.” [17:37]

Not Just for Listeners—A Shared Experience

• The hosts feel honored when listeners develop parasocial bonds with them:
  • “It does not strike us as creepy. It's exhilarating and thrilling. We feel honored to play that role for people...” – Gretchen [20:27]

The Broader Benefits

• Parasocial relationships are compared to reading novels—offering a way to practice empathy, encounter new perspectives, and broaden one's world.
  • “It allows you to inhabit someone else’s mind and someone else’s perspective...” – Gretchen [18:54]

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Spotlight on: The Five Things Newsletter

[20:45 – 22:36]

• Gretchen shares her love for compiling her weekly newsletter—“such an engine of happiness for me.”
• She recounts the joy of sharing a video featuring A Chorus Line alumni and the ripple effect of happiness it created.
• Subscription details: “You can sign up at happiercast.com/newsletter. It’s super fun.” [22:29]

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Topic Deep Dive: TV (Screen) Tourism

[25:02 – 31:12]

Gretchen’s Croatia Trip & Game of Thrones

• Visiting real-life Game of Thrones filming locations:
  • “We only visited one: Diocletian’s Palace in Split, where some of the Meereen scenes... were filmed.” – Gretchen [25:02]
• Locals acknowledge the show’s impact on tourism.

The Pull of Screen Locations

• Iconic NYC spot: Carrie Bradshaw’s stoop from Sex and the City ([26:29])
• Friends Experience: Dedicated set recreations in NYC now attract crowds hoping to walk into Central Perk or Monica’s apartment ([28:30])
• Example: Lord of the Rings tours in New Zealand, Downton Abbey estate visits in the UK, and White Lotus hotel stays.
• Elizabeth: “...You feel more of a connection when you’ve seen it. It’s like you want to go and be like, oh, this is where they ate brunch every day...” [29:34]

Why Are We Drawn to TV Tourism?

• “It’s like wanting to enter into a world yourself. It’s a world that, in your imagination, you love to visit.” – Gretchen [29:58]
• Sometimes, seeing a place onscreen gives it an aura of specialness (“...for some reason now we think, ‘oh, this hotel is special among many hotels because this is the one that I’ve seen.’”) – Gretchen [30:45]
• Elizabeth: “As you say, a quest is more fun than a jaunt, so it gives you a quest.” [30:45]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Decluttering:
  • “If you really love it and the idea of keeping it is really important, then it deserves its place… It’s just that when nobody really cares about it and nobody uses it and nobody needs it, it’s like, why are we devoting all this space to it?”
    – Gretchen [06:01]
• On the Comfort of Parasocial Bonds:
  • “It’s very reliable. You know exactly what you’re getting... It can give you that feeling of the support that we get through proximity, of knowing somebody is nearby, even if it’s completely in your mind.”
    – Gretchen [16:11]
• On TV Tourism as a Quest:
  • “A quest is more fun than a jaunt, so it gives you a quest.”
    – Elizabeth [30:45]
• On the Joy of "Playing" With Our Passions:
  • “When I am home alone, I like to scatter my tackle across the floor and play with it… It is really playing.”
    – Howell Raines (read by Gretchen) [31:14]

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Final Thoughts

The sisters wrap up with playful musings about their own fantasy screen tourism destinations (Elizabeth would love to visit Kyle Richards’ house from The Real Housewives) and reiterate their hope that listeners find more happiness by embracing new hobbies, parasocial joys, and little quests in daily life.

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Segment Timestamps (MM:SS)

• [02:46] – Decluttering childhood toys
• [08:40] – Gretchen's new podcast “Since You Asked”
• [12:56] – Exploring parasocial relationships
• [20:45] – Gretchen’s Five Things newsletter spotlight
• [25:02] – The allure and impact of TV ("screen") tourism
• [31:14] – Favorite quote: On the joy of playing

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Tone: Warm, candid, supportive, insightful—true to the signature “Happier” dynamic.

Transcript

[Elizabeth]

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[Gretchen]

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[Elizabeth]

Lemonada.

[Gretchen]

Hello, we're here for more Happier, a podcast where we get happier. It's the weekend. It's a looser vibe. We're hanging out. We're chatting. Hey, Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth]

Hey, Gretch.

[Gretchen]

Today we'll talk about the joys of parasocial relationships. And we'll also talk about a question related to quality screen time. But first, something making us happier. Elizabeth, what? Is something making you happier?

[Elizabeth]

All right, Gretch, what is making me happier is that I am finally getting rid of some of Jack's toys from when he was young, clearing out space. I've got someone who has two little kids in my life so, you know, I can give them to her. So that is great. And she is very happy to get them. Now there is a little bit of a bittersweetness, of course, to this because you know, you see the toy and you think, oh my gosh, I remember when he loved Minecraft. Oh my gosh, I remember when we got this game. But if you push through that and actually remove items from his room or the shelves, whatever, and they get out of the house, then of course I am so much happier just to have done that.

[Gretchen]

Uh huh. Okay, a few questions. One is, are you taking pictures of anything just to kind of hang onto a memory?

[Elizabeth]

You know, I haven't. There's nothing so far that's risen to the level. I guess I haven't gotten rid of anything that's that emotionally charged yet. That's another layer.

[Gretchen]

Okay, so you're doing it sort of layers. The first thing is the easy things that don't have a lot of emotional significance.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Like they have a little bit, like I said, the Minecraft toy. But it's not like I need to hang on to the memory of his little torch, plastic torch from the Minecraft game forever.

[Gretchen]

Right. One thing I did is I would keep a few characteristic examples of different toys. So as we would get rid of a lot of things, I would keep one or two just as kind of a physical reminder. Oh, but that works well if the things are small, if they're big, that ends up being too much, not very efficient. And is Jack involved in this or you're doing it?

[Elizabeth]

If I have any question at all, I just hold it up and say, hey, can I give this away? And so far he said yes to everything. He hasn't said no to anything. Now again, I haven't gone deep into what I know he absolutely loved. So that'll be another conversation. But the thing is, eventually it is going to come to pass that we don't have these things. I mean, unless we have the notion of let's save everything in case grandchildren want to use it.

[Gretchen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

Then either you have to kind of be all in on that or not. Now, one thing that Adam and I put away in the garage to save, not really because Jack wanted them so much, but because I absolutely was like, I cannot part with this is his Thomas the train set with the wooden tracks.

[Gretchen]

I knew that's what you were gonna say. Well, they're just so good. They're just such good toys.

[Elizabeth]

I just was like, in the event of a grandchild, I cannot not have this in the garage to pull out.

[Gretchen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

So that I have kept. And I'm just, you know, that's happening. There's a few Star wars toys also that I think I might just have to keep because they are iconic, and I just don't know that I can part with them. It's really more about me than Jack, to be honest.

[Gretchen]

But see, I think it's really useful to say it that way, because then it's clear. Because if it's all like, well, what does Jack want? And Jack's like, well, I don't want any of it. But you have your own reasons. I mean, my test for things is, do we need it? Do we use it? Do we love it? And there are many things that we have in our apartment that I just love. And we don't use them, and we don't need them, but I just love them. And I think the Thomas the Tank Engine, it's like, if you really love it and the idea of keeping it is really important, then it deserves its place. It's just that when nobody really cares about it and nobody uses it and nobody needs it, it's like, why are we devoting all this space to it?

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Gretchen]

And do you find that it's easy? I think for me at least, it's a lot easier to give things away when I know they're going to somebody who can use them.

[Elizabeth]

Oh, yeah.

[Gretchen]

Do you remember the giant boxes of picture books that I sent to you?

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Oh, my gosh. That was so great.

[Gretchen]

Right.

[Elizabeth]

And now I've passed many of those.

[Gretchen]

Right. Well, because the fact is, like, I love, love, love picture books. So we still have a lot. Most people would say, how is it possible that you gave away any picture books? Because you have so many picture books, but they really are culled down to the ones that I think are the best. But it was very. Because I love picture books. Even the bad ones. Knowing that I was giving them to you completely changed my feelings of the stickiness of them. Because I was like, oh, it made me so happy to think that you were just going to get the. Because when you have a little kid, they're just tearing through books.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. You need so many. No, that is super helpful. Knowing the kids who will be hopefully enjoying the toys. Absolutely. That helps so much.

[Gretchen]

And are you planning on doing sort of. You said this is the obvious layer. Are you going to push yourself to do multiple layers or how are you thinking about it?

[Elizabeth]

I think Adam and I Together can do sort of another, bigger layer.

[Gretchen]

I'm sort of.

[Elizabeth]

Whenever I have a moment, I'm just wandering around plucking items.

[Gretchen]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

But even just doing that layer now, I kind of have a place to put games that, you know, we had this situation where I'd want a game, but there was just this buried pile of games, and to get to anything was Jenga, Right?

[Gretchen]

Sure. Speaking of games. Yeah. Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

And so now I can, like, put the games on a shelf where they're clearly visible and can easily be gotten to.

[Gretchen]

Well, this is the whole thing that sometimes when you clear clutter, you actually feel like you have more because the stuff that you actually, actually use is more activated and more available.

[Elizabeth]

Exactly. So it is definitely making me happier. But it's a work in progress. But it's a good thing. Now, Gretch, what's making you happier?

[Gretchen]

Well, I'm so excited because this second episode of my new podcast is out now, and this is like this huge. Yay. Since you asked. With Lori Gottlieb and Gretchen Rubin. This is a whole other podcast, completely different, and we are having so much fun with this show. I hope everybody will give it a shot and check it out.

[Elizabeth]

Well, I love it because I love advice shows and advice columns and advice whatnot. So it's fun just to hear what you two have to say, both what you agree on and what you have different angles on.

[Gretchen]

Well, it's funny, Elizabeth, because it kind of reminds me of how I feel about you and Happier in Hollywood, because I'm like, she's my sister. I do all this stuff with her, and yet I listen to Happier in Hollywood. I'm like, ooh, that's so interesting, all this completely different conversation. And the same thing with my conversations with Lori Gottlieb. It's still me, but it's a completely different context, and so the conversations are just different. It's just very fun creatively to do it. There is something about advice. It's just a form. It's kind of like before and after or behind the scenes. It's just like a form that is endlessly appealing. I think. So anyway. I hope the listeners will check it out. And, you know, as always, if you enjoy it, rate it, review it, recommend, it always helps a new show. You know, it's hard to spread the word. So anyway, that's making me very happy. It's a lot of work to get something going, but then once you're going, then it's the fun part.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, absolutely. Since you asked with Lori, gottlieb and Gretchen Rubin. Everybody needs to listen.

[Gretchen]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

All right, Gretchen. Coming up, there's something I've been meaning to ask you. But first, this break.

[Gretchen]

Foreign.

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[Elizabeth]

Gretch, you know how much I love Audible. Audiobooks are such a huge part of my life. I'm always telling people to start listening to audiobooks. What I love is that Audible has something for everyone. My most recent book I have teed up to listen to is 4th Wing by Rebecca Yarros. I am a huge romance lover, have been since I was 12 years old and I have heard so much about this book. I cannot wait to start listening.

[Gretchen]

Yeah, that's the great thing about Audible. They have whatever you're in the mood for. You can hear modern rom coms from authors like Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood, the latest romantasy series from Sarah J. Maas and yes, Rebecca Yarros and Regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander, plus all the really steamy stuff. Whatever you're looking for, you can find the audiobook you will love. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30 day [e-mail] Happier okay Elizabeth, what is it that you've been Meaning to ask me.

[Elizabeth]

Okay, Gretch. Well, the term parasocial relationship, I feel like is more and more common and coming up in conversation 100%. And you obviously write and talk about happiness all the time. And so I'm very curious what you think about parasocial relationships in terms of happiness.

[Gretchen]

So for people who aren't familiar with the term, a parasocial relationship is a one sided relationship. It's a one way emotional connection where you feel like you're friends with somebody or that you have some kind of intimacy with somebody who you don't actually know in real life. Maybe it is a celebrity, maybe it is a fictional character, maybe it is a podcast host. So you don't actually know them, but you feel like you know them and you feel a connection to them even though it's not somebody that you've connected with in real life.

[Elizabeth]

And so what do you think? I mean, I love all my parasocial relationships. I get great joy from them.

[Gretchen]

I completely agree. Now, the thing is, to be sure, we don't want to have parasocial relationships to the degree that we crowd out relationships that we would have in real life, because obviously having a two way relationship is much better than having a one way relationship. But I mean, you and I both talk about this often. Like, having these parasocial relationships does make our lives feel richer. I mean, you do feel a connection to another person. Even if it's one way, it's still valuable for me.

[Elizabeth]

I love reality tv. I love the Housewives, Survivor, et cetera, the Bachelor. And I listen to all these podcasts where they talk about that. My favorite is Drama Darling with Amy Phillips. But I also, as you know, love Bitch Sesh. There's this guy Tyson who does a breakdown of Survivor. He's a former Survivor winner. And I swear I enjoy listening to Tyson talk about Survivor more than I actually enjoy Survivor because I like Tyson.

[Gretchen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

And when it ends for the season, I miss him and his podcast. And what I think for me, partly it's like this is kind of a thing in my life where, yes, I have a couple of people I can text about reality tv, but I want to talk about it all the time. And this is the way that I get to talk about it. Even though I'm not talking, I'm just listening.

[Gretchen]

Some people are like, whenever you want, you know, so it can be asynchronous, as they say. You can tap into something that you're really interested in with people who you really like hanging out with, but who are Also bringing new ideas, new information, and something that's really interesting to you. I had a parasocial relationship with a host of Binge Mode Harry Potter and Binge Mode Game of Thrones. It was Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion. It's interesting, without podcasts, they didn't talk about their own lives that much. You did, over time, get a sense of their personal lives. It was really just them talking about these shows and books, but they were bringing so much knowledge and information that I was endlessly fascinated by the way their minds worked. But then I did care about them as people as well, and I cared about their friendship. You feel like you're part of their.

[Elizabeth]

Social world and they're dynamic.

[Gretchen]

Yes. And they're dynamic. Yeah. And what's funny too, is like, one of the things that we get from friends, of course, or like family members, is that comfort, they can give us comfort. And the interesting thing is I have talked to people who get comfort from a parasocial relationship. Part of it is it's very reliable. You know exactly what you're getting at. When you call your friend, they could be like, frantically running around and be like, oh, my gosh, I only have one minute to talk. This is something where it's the middle of the night, you can't sleep. You know, you can turn it on, so it's there, but then also it can give you that feeling of the support that we get through proximity, of knowing somebody's nearby, even if it's completely in your mind. This is somebody who actually knows me. So it's not parasocial in the same way. But a friend of mine said she's a super nervous flyer, and usually she would fly with somebody she knew, but this one time she had to fly by herself and there was a lot of turbulence. And so she said she turned on the happier podcast because then she felt she could close her eyes and sort of pretend like I was talking to her. And I thought, well, she actually knows me. But I've done that with people that I don't actually know, and I still get comfort from it. Because you do feel that.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. Well. And I think, you know what the mood is going to be of that podcast or whatever it may be. TikTok person. So that's, again, comforting and reassuring. It's like, okay, I wanna laugh. Sarah and I recently were talking about making a laugh list, things that make you laugh.

[Gretchen]

Oh, right, Exactly.

[Elizabeth]

And if I know if I turn on drama, darling, I am going to laugh.

[Gretchen]

Yes.

[Elizabeth]

And that is a great thing. And it's reliable. I know what I'm gonna get. And so I think that's great.

[Gretchen]

And it doesn't require anything of you. Like, a real friend has demands, has needs. That's part of what's valuable about it. But here, it's one way.

[Elizabeth]

And it's not always just listening to something. Like, for instance, when Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce got engaged, I mean, my phone was blowing up with everybody being just giddy. And on Facebook, people saying, like, this is what I need. No haters, don't take this joy from me.

[Gretchen]

Yes, right, right, right, right.

[Elizabeth]

I did not go to the ERAS tour, but when it ended, I felt its loss because I so en watching clips every day or whatever. There was a concert of new clips of the Heiress tour concert.

[Gretchen]

Right.

[Elizabeth]

So that's like another parasocial relationship. And I think that's one reason Taylor Swift is so huge, because the world feels like she's their best friend.

[Gretchen]

Well. And Kansas City now claims Taylor Swift.

[Elizabeth]

In a major way.

[Gretchen]

And. Right. You're like, the whole city has a parasocial relationship with her. It feels like it's very, very special.

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Gretchen]

But you know what's interesting, too, is that one of the things people say about novel reading, because, of course, you and I love to read novels, it gives you empathy because it allows you to see the world from someone else's perspective. It allows you to inhabit someone else's mind and someone else's perspective, and that just enlarges your world because you can be part of conversations and circumstances that you could never participate in in real life, and yet you can do it through your imagination, and that just broadens your outlook. And I think it's kind of the same thing with parasocial relationships where they're talking about what they're going through or what they think. And I do feel like it gives me a glimpse or like sometimes I'll listen to things where the people are a completely different generation or a completely different background, and it gives you an insight like, well, what are their responses and what's their take and what's their slang? And it allows you to have a relationship that you wouldn't realistically have in real life and gain from that the way you might gain from an actual relationship.

[Elizabeth]

That's a great point.

[Gretchen]

Yeah. But with a lot less investment. The upside, as so often is the case, the upside is the downside. You're not contributing. No one's demanding anything of you. So we're not saying, like, oh, everybody should have parasocial relationships instead of having Actual relationships.

[Elizabeth]

Good point.

[Gretchen]

But they have a role to play in a happy life.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. And, Gretch, I would mention you and I love it when people tell us that they have a parasocial relationship with us. It makes us feel great that listening to us, people feel like we're friends.

[Gretchen]

I think sometimes people worry that it will strike us as creepy. It does not strike us as creepy. It's exhilarating and thrilling. And I mean, really, we feel honored to play that role for people because you and I both have long lists of people we feel that way about. So no parasocial. It's fun. It's good. It can be a happiness booster. I love it.

[Elizabeth]

Okay, what is our spotlight on Atul this week?

[Gretchen]

Okay, I want to talk about my five Things newsletter. This is my free weekly newsletter. It is such an engine of happiness for me. I love putting this thing together. All week long, I'm, like, thinking about what I'm going to write. And I think now maybe more than ever, we're all looking for ways to feel a little bit lighter, a little bit more focused, happier. And so this newsletter is where I share ideas and tools and things I've come across. Interesting research, anything that can help people get a little boost. A few minutes a week. I have more than a million people already get it. It's free. You can sign up. I did this thing where at the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts for the anniversary of the library and also for the anniversary of A Chorus Line. They invited all the previous performers at A Chorus Line to come back and perform songs. And so there was this video of all of these performers throughout the decades doing one singular sensation. Every little step she takes, that one. And they were all doing. And they all had their hats, and they were all just completely bringing it and doing it on this plaza in front of the library. And then that made me so happy just seeing it. And then you read the comments. The first comment was Sarah Jessica Parker saying, yay, I love you guys. And then all the people were like, look at these performers.

[Elizabeth]

This is amazing.

[Gretchen]

Of course they all have hats. And then all these people talking about how, as a dancer, you never forget these big numbers. It's part of your body. Anyway, it was just so, so fun. But then what made it even more fun was that a friend of mine. So I put it in the newsletter, and then a friend of mine put it on Instagram, saying, like, oh, my gosh, this made me so happy. Thank you, Gretchen. And so I was like, oh, it made me so happy. It made her happy. I'm happy that she's happy. Anyway, everybody's happy. So you can sign [e-mail] newsletter. It's super fun.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, it's kind of like a diary almost, because I see what you were doing during the week. You know, it's just fun. I love it.

[Gretchen]

It's just odd little bits and bobs. Yep.

[Elizabeth]

Okay, coming up, we're going to talk about quality screen time. But first, this break. Foreign Huge Savings on Dell AI PCs are here and it's a big deal. Why? Because Dell AI PCs with Intel Core Ultra processors are newly designed to help you do more faster. It's pretty amazing what they can do in a day's work. They can generate code, edit images, multitask without lag, draft emails, summarize documents, create live translations. They can even extend your battery life so you never have to worry about forgetting your charger.

[Gretchen]

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[Elizabeth]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. So, Gretch, October 10th is World Mental Health Day, and this year we are saying thank you, therapists. You know how much I appreciate therapists. In my own life, therapy has made such a huge difference. When I was a young aspiring television writer and thinking I might quit because it was too hard, my therapist really talked me through it and I wouldn't have my career today without her.

[Gretchen]

BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can find the right person to help you focus on your therapy goals. If you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. This World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who have helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com gretchenrubin that's betterhelp.com gretchenRubin.

[Elizabeth]

Okay, Gretch, we are back to talk about quality screen time.

[Gretchen]

Okay, Elizabeth, so I recently went on a family trip to Croatia, which was amazing. It's a beautiful Beautiful country. And it think about TV tourism, because the part of Croatia that we went to did not have a lot of Game of Thrones locations. It really. We only visited one. It was. We went to Diocletian's palace and Split, and some of the scenes of Meereen from Game of Thrones were filmed there. That's like, when she's in sort of the dragon caves and chaining up her dragons from the Meereen scenes. There were other cities where there was much, much more Game of Thrones locations. And as I was talking to people in Croatia, like, they were like, oh, yeah, this has been a major thing for us. And I saw you had that T shirt, Elizabeth, when you went to the finale party. It says, like, I drink and I know things.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, that's a Tyrion quote from Game of Thrones.

[Gretchen]

Like, I spotted that in a store. There was all kinds of stuff. And it made me think about TV tourism, because sometimes there are shows, and it's not every show, but certain shows really make us want to visit a specific location and see something with our own eyes. And sometimes we don't have that. There are many, many shows where there is a location you could go visit, but nobody seems to have that impulse. But then there are other shows where it changes the economy of a city because there's such a powerful desire to visit a place. And just got me thinking about TV tourism.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah. Well, I'd say a classic example is Carrie Bradshaw's Front stoop is a major visiting spot in New York.

[Gretchen]

I think it is in Google Maps. I think I've seen it before when I was just looking at Maps. I think it's marked. It's an imaginary place, by the way.

[Elizabeth]

Right. I've seen video of the people who own that brownstone or whatever it is, come out and say, please leave us alone. Cause people will walk by, like, with a boombox playing the Sex and the City music.

[Gretchen]

Taking the picture. No, in fact, it's interesting because those people recently got permission to put a gate on their door, which is not usually permitted in that area. But they were like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, if anybody needs it, you do so well. And then I think of the Lord of the Rings in New Zealand. I would love to go to New Zealand, but apparently a lot of people go on Lord of the Rings tours there because so much of it was filmed there.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. And Gretchen, again, not tv. It's a movie. But you and I went on a sound and music tour in Salzburg.

[Gretchen]

Well, you know, and Elizabeth, one of my Favorite photographs of you from that time was there's that scene where Liesl is, like, jumping from bench to bench, and they're. I don't know. It's sort of like a gazebo. Yeah, they're gazebo. And you kind of recreated that. And I took a picture of you, and it's very funny. I should see if I can dig that out. We're calling it TV tourism, but it's actually. It's just. What would you call it? Screen tourism? I guess it's like when you've seen something in TV or movies. When you and I were in Minneapolis for our live tour, our live podcast tour, we wanted to go see the Mary. I don't think that the exterior is there, but we did want to go see the Mary Tyler Moore statue.

[Elizabeth]

But no, the exterior is there.

[Gretchen]

Is the exterior there? Yes, but it was too far away. Right. That was the thing. Yeah. I remember there was a discussion, and we didn't end up going to see either, but we really wanted to.

[Elizabeth]

Yes. And that was a mistake on our part. We should have done it.

[Gretchen]

Well, and then is there the cross street where I'm sure people go stand there and, like, throw their caps in the air? I mean, the urge to do that is packed. Powerful.

[Elizabeth]

Very powerful.

[Gretchen]

Well, there's this thing I've seen in New York City. This is kind of adjacent. I guess it's not exactly the same thing, but I guess it's tapping into the same impulse, only really amplifying it. Where it's called the Friends Experience. And I've seen it from the street and, like, see the lines of people waiting to go in. And it's. From what I can tell, it's rooms that recreate the sets. One is Central Perk, so you can, like, actually walk into the set of Central Perk, which is the coffee shop where they hang out or, I assume, their apartments or whatever, and see the set, see the props. Because there is this desire to inhabit yourself, the place that you've seen presented to you on a screen.

[Elizabeth]

And I think a lot of times it's. If it's aspirational, like, I think with Friends, people aspire to have this amazing friend group. I think a lot of people love to visit the estate where they shot Downton Abbey for obvious reasons, because it's this whole world.

[Gretchen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

We've also read that all of the hotels where White Lotus is shot.

[Gretchen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth]

Have gotten way more popular now. Not hard to understand why one would want to go to those hotels. They're absolutely gorgeous. But I do Think you feel more of a connection when you've seen it. It's like you want to go and be like, oh, this is where they ate brunch every day. This is where they got a massage. You know, this is the pool where they hung out. Yes. It's compelling.

[Gretchen]

Yeah, well, it's the same thing. It's like, oh, this is where Circe did the walk of shame. I can see those stairs for myself. Yeah, I think it is. It's like wanting to enter into a world yourself. It's a world that, in your imagination, you love to visit. And so now you really want to see it for yourself. And then also there is that thing where, like, maybe something is just brought to your attention, where you're like, wow, I've heard about New Zealand, but wow, looking at it, I see how beautiful it is. I really do wanna see it. Or Croatia. You're like, oh, I've heard about Croat, but many, many, many things are presented to our attention. But for some reason now we think, oh, this hotel is special among many hotels because this is the one that I've seen. And so it's just that idea that you get more interested in something because you know a little bit about it. Yeah, it's interesting.

[Elizabeth]

And, Gretchen, as you say, a quest is more fun than a jaunt, so it gives you a quest. It's like, I'm going to go to New Zealand, and I'm going to see where the hobbits live.

[Gretchen]

I'm gonna go to Austria, and I'm gonna do the Sound of Music tour. I'm gonna jump from bench to bench, and I'm gonna be there in my imagination. I love it. TV tourism has the good alliteration, but I think screen tourism is actually more accurate because a lot of these were movies.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, true.

[Gretchen]

Interesting.

[Elizabeth]

All right, Gretch, what is our quotation this week?

[Gretchen]

Oh, I love this. This comes from Howell Raines memoir, Fly Fishing through the Midlife Crisis. He writes, when I am home alone, I like to scatter my tackle across the floor and play with it. I may pretend I am working on it, performing preventive maintenance, but it is really playing. Love that.

[Elizabeth]

That's sweet.

[Gretchen]

So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?

[Elizabeth]

Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to Chuck. And if you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the time. You can listen an ad free. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcast or go to lemonadap premium.com. bye, Gretch.

[Gretchen]

Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. Wait, Alyssa. So if you could enter into any. Oh, can I guess what you might pick?

[Elizabeth]

Please?

[Gretchen]

Is there a reality TV set, like a house or, you know, one of the real Housewives mansions? Or is there a place where you would love to just go walk around yourself?

[Elizabeth]

Oh, yes, I would love to go to Kyle Richards house, Beverly Hills Housewife who happens to live in Encino.

[Gretchen]

Oh, really?

[Elizabeth]

Who knows? Maybe the dream will come true someday.

[Gretchen]

Okay, Manifest it from the Onward Project.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here. We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you. You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?

[Gretchen]

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever you get podcasts, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Keke Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success, Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.