← Happier with Gretchen Rubin
Happier with Gretchen Rubin
More Happier: What Can the Real Housewives Teach Us About Hope? Plus the New Hollywood Trend
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Foreign.
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Hello. We're here for More Happier, a podcast where we get happier. It is the weekend. We are kicking back. It's a looser vibe. Hey, Elizabeth.
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Hi, Gretch.
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Today we'll talk about what the Real Housewives can show us about the nature of life and. And we'll explore a trend that is hitting Hollywood. But first, something making us happier. Elizabeth, what's making you happier?
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Well, Gretch, it is spring break season. Jack is on spring break, and that is making me happier. It's just so nice to have a break in. Sort of the grind of getting up, making breakfast, getting out the door, driving to school. Jack's school is a lot of traffic away from us. It's only four miles, but there is a lot of traffic, and it's just a fight. Every day together get there. So I'm just enjoying that break, right?
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Oh, yeah. That's just a lovely feeling. Yeah. School break. Love it.
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How about you? What's making you more happier?
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Okay, so this is something that I want to stop taking for granted, which is the first cup of coffee in the morning. So I drink tons of coffee. I drink it throughout the day. But there is something special about the first cup of coffee. And often I feel like I go. I get my coffee, I immediately go to my desk, and I'm just so absorbed in what I'm doing that I just. I'm drinking it without really appreciating it. And I thought, you know, let me just stand in the kitchen for a few minutes and just think how much I love coffee. I love my first cup of coffee in the morning and just allow it to give me the pleasure that I know it gives me, but that just so often I don't pay attention to.
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Well, I so relate to this, I have to say, I feel like every day, I spend the whole day trying to get the pleasure I got out of the first cup of coffee from another cup of coffee. And it never happens. Even, like, I'll wait several hours, and then at 4 o', clock, I'll say, I'll have a cup of decaf, because it'll be like that first cup, and it never is. What is that? It must be something chemical.
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Mm. Well, Michael Pollan wrote an excellent essay about caffeine that will make you realize, yeah, there's a lot going on with the chemical of caffeine. But, yeah, it's just one of these things where instead of letting it fade into the background, we can pay attention to it and let it play a lovely role in our lives.
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Yeah. You know what I do, Gretchen, is I drink my first cup of coffee and do Wordle and other New York Times games, which I think is what a lot of people do. And if I don't have that those two things together, I just. My day is not starting out right. So even if I have to leave for the airport at 6am or something, I'll get up in time to at least sit for 10 minutes and do Wordle and drink my coffee.
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Well, that sounds very lovely. Like that's a very nice way to start easing into your day. I like that it is. But you know, I don't like games, so I don't do any of that stuff that everybody else does. Yeah, I don't like games. Yeah. Such a killjoy. But speaking of being a killjoy, the opposite of a killjoy is whimsy. So if people need whimsy, I wanted to just mention that I posted the final installment, at least for now, who knows, of my five part series on substack, My Color Pilgrimage. I have been working on my Color Pilgrimage for years. It is so exciting to me to finally get this out into the world. I feel like I want to show everybody the beauty of color and how bonkers all these color facts are. So if anybody's been thinking about subscribing or upgrading in Substack, now's the time. And you can find the whole series at secretsofadulthood.substack.com Love it.
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Okay, Gretch, coming up, we've got a lesson from the Real Housewives. But first, this break.
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Foreign.
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been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately, trying to focus more on quality over quantity. Fewer pieces, but ones that are well made and easy to wear every single day. Gretchen, you know what I'm going to say. I love quince. For that quince makes beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials. They have 100% European linen, organic cotton, super soft denim with styles starting around $50. And Gretchen, I love their accessories.
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Quince linen tops have become my go to. The fabric feels substantial, but it's still easy to wear and it does not cost what I thought quality linen would cost. Refresh your spring wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com Gretchen for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to q U-I-N-C-E.com Gretchen for free shipping AND 365 day returns. Quince.com Gretchen okay, Elizabeth, you love the Real Housewives and you were telling me about this very interesting aspect that I had never really thought about about the Real Housewives about the nature of time and the Real Housewives. So I've been meaning to ask you to expand on what you meant by that comment.
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Okay, so the Real Housewives now have been going for many years. I think the Real Housewives of OC are coming up on their 20th season and many of the people have been on for most of those seasons. So you're really spending time with these women. And the thing that I've noticed over all of the cities is how much changes over the years. I mean, you sort of think, oh, I grow up, I set my life up, here it is, I'm living and it kind of is what it is.
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Yeah.
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But in fact, enormous changes happen. Kids leave the house. But also jobs have transformations. Marriages have transformations. For better or worse, people's friendships change. And what I've really been finding helpful lately is if you're down, here's my little bit of advice. When you're down, imagine you're a real housewife. And in two seasons you're going to be past all this. Okay? An example is Teresa Giudice, okay? She is a real housewife of New Jersey, star of the show. She went to jail for a fraud. Not clear if she actually knew what was going on or really just her husband did. But regardless of that, she went to jail. She did her time and she came out of jail. She is now remarried to a guy that she loves. She's back as the star of the show. She has a great relationship with all of her children. She is thriving. So time goes on. Things Change whatever you're dealing with. Now, just think, okay, in two seasons, I'm gonna be back at the top of my game. Or in two seasons, this wound will be healed or whatever it is. And I find that very helpful.
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Well, this reminds me of two things. One is you and Sarah often have, like, this will be over by Halloween, or this will be over by dinner time. Like, I hear you two often set a thing saying like, whatever it is, however unpleasant it is, or how much suspense we're in or whatever, that somehow you'll set that limit. So it makes sense to me that you see this in the Real Housewives, which is like, yeah, seasons come, seasons go eventually. But here's my question. Do you think it's more dramatic because these are the Real Housewives? Do you think that the stakes are artificially raised? Or you think, no, this is just life?
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Well, that's a good question. I think to be a Real Housewife, you have to have a certain kind of personality, which might often be a little bit more reckless because most people do not want to have their life filmed. So I do think there's a self selecting nature to it. But even so, I think we can't predict what's gonna happen in any of our lives. So I think it's just good to be aware of that. And also another thing is the Real Housewives are very proactive in their lives. They don't just sit back, they really go for it. And I think that's a good lesson. It's like, stay active. Don't just sit there in whatever it is that's going on. If you don't like it, take action. Like, fight your way out. Get to the other side.
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Well, this is interesting. Cause it's reminding of my empty nest, or open door, as I'm calling it, for two reasons. One is I've been looking at what's called the end of history illusion. And this is an illusion that people of all ages, all across the world experience. And the illusion is that we think, okay, like a person will say to you, yes. If I look back on my life, I see how I changed and grew and all these things about me changed. But now I'm cooked. And I think from now on, I'm going to be the way that I am now. And so people just always have this feeling. It's funny because my daughter Eleanor really has this feeling. Like she'll often say, like, oh, in the past, I was this, I was that. I have these ideas. That idea, this was my fashion. But now I found my True fashion. And it'll be this way forever, you know, for six months. And then this comes up in the empty nest because a lot of people think like, well, my life is my life, and this is the way it's gonna be. And they. And they underestimate the degree to which things can change. Well, so, of course, that's the second thing where the first thing is beware of the end of history, illusion. And the second one is, is to think I can. I can be someone who tries things or experiments, puts myself out there more, and that's just gonna be more opportunity. There's more possibility the more you put yourself out there. And if anybody puts themselves out there, it's definitely the Real Housewives. So you can do, like, a hundredth of what they do and still, you know, rock your world, I think, right?
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Yes, for sure. Also, Gretchen, side note, I think it can be helpful sometimes to think of yourself as a character. It's like you can have a little distance.
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Yes.
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I had a friend went through a really hard time, and she got through it. She said, thinking of herself as a character on a show, and then she was able to just kind of withstand it because she was saying what the character would say and doing what the character would do. And I think that can be helpful in and of itself.
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Well, there's a lot of research about this, that when you think of yourself in the third person, if you address yourself by name, if you imagine that you're giving advice to a friend who's in your situation, then you take advice yourself. You're much better able to give good advice and then take that. So there's a lot of research around that. But also, this kind of reminds me of, like, give yourself a derby name, which is like, imagine yourself as a real housewife. I wouldn't even really be able to do this because I haven't watched enough to know the show. But don't they have sort of slogans? Yeah, taglines. Like, what are some of the taglines?
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Erica Girardi had one that was. Some people call me cold, but that's not ice. It's diamonds.
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Okay.
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Someone else had Am I high maintenance? Of course I am. Look at me. They're very, very funny and speak to what the person's going through at the time. So, yeah, think of a housewife tagline for yourself. That's another good idea.
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But also. Yeah, like, as the years go by, if you think of yourself like, yeah, now I'm in my down season, and then next season will be my triumphant comeback.
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Yes.
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Yeah, I like that. I love that. There's so much wisdom that we can get from the Real Housewives.
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All right, Gretch, what is this week's Spotlight on a Tool?
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Well, it is springtime, and so if you are in the mood to do some spring cleaning, here is a fun way to clear clutter and also get some movement, you know, because we're all about move 26 and 26. For move 26, I teamed up with the organizing expert Cass Larson of the hugely popular clutterbug communities. I have heard from so many people who love clutterbug to create a declutter scavenger hunt. Who does not love a scavenger hunt? You set a timer for 26 minutes, and you see how many things you can clear. I mean, this is stuff like old toothbrushes, dead batteries, mismatched socks, or like, solo socks, expired pantry items. Alyssa, this is very much along the lines of the clear the decks episode, where we're sort of like, okay, we're gonna ring the bell. Go do it. Come back. It's just a great way to clear that scum of clutter that collects on the surface of life that just makes us feel sort of weighed down. So if you are somebody who feels like me, that outer order contributes to inner calm, and this sounds like the kind of thing you would enjoy. You can download the PDF and you can find all hacks, tips, tools for clearing clutter@happiercast.com declutter this is just trying to gamify everything, trying to make it more fun, trying to make it feel lighter and easier to do these things that we know are going to make us happier, but we don't always feel
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like doing spring cleaning. Okay, Gretch, coming up, you're going to ask me about a new form of entertainment that is expanding rapidly. But first, this break.
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Okay, Elizabeth, there's been something I've been meaning to ask you because I keep on podcasts, in news articles, I keep reading references to microdramas. I think they're sometimes called verticals on there. This, like, super short form thing. I downloaded an app to see them for myself. I don't 100% understand. What is this, it seems. Is it a new form of art? Is it a new medium? Like, what are people saying about this? I know you've been really trying to get up to speed, so. So fill me in. I don't. This is something I'm not really understanding.
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Yeah. Okay. So this is something many of our listeners may never have heard of. Many of our listeners may Watch these all the time. Let me explain what they are.
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Interesting.
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So yes, microdramas, verticals. The reason that they're called verticals is they are shot to be watched on your phone vertically.
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Okay.
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Small screen. So the idea is these are not meant for the big screen television. These are meant to watch on a device on your phone. And they are on apps. Okay. So apps have these. There's a drama box app is probably the most famous one. There's real shorts is another one, but there's several. Then you subscribe or pay a certain amount and you watch these micro dramas slash verticals on your phone. And what they are is very short episodes. Like, let's say 90 seconds is probably the.
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Wow. Okay, so they are like three minutes micro.
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Okay, yes, max, three minutes. But I mean, max. Most of them are 90 seconds to two minutes. And they're kind of like a 90 minute, let's say movie type thing that are divided into 50 to 100 episodes. So you watch them in succession on your phone and then they have like, in theory, like a little cliffhanger at the end of every 90 seconds to two minutes. Now, by cliffhanger, you know, it could be someone giving someone else a look or someone reaching for a door handle. It's not like these are necessarily huge cliffhangers, but then throughout they have bigger cliffhangers. Often the best cliffhanger comes right before you get to the paywall. That won't surprise anyone.
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Yeah, okay. So you get some of it for free to get you hooked. And then they pay wall to get. Okay.
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And many of these microdramas, I mean, the vast majority really answer people's desire to like scratch their trope slash genre itch. So for somebody who loves a romance with mistaken identity, okay, they'll have that. You can search for that. So you can really. Or somebody wants, you know, a secret billionaire story. They're very into tropes. So I kind of liken it to a Harlequin romance. You know, there are people who love Harlequin romances. I happen to be one of them. I read prior probably, you know, hundreds of Harlequin romances growing up. You like that kind of same thing over and over again. It's a lot of that now as they get more popular, I think over time they'll probably branch out. I mean, there are different genres. There's fantasy, there's a sci fi version. They're coming up now with horror versions. Romance is by far the most popular. And I try to stay agnostic on whether they're good or bad. I think entertainment is very personal. It evolves over time. I'm not here to tell you microdramas are good or bad. I just am fascinated with how they're exploding. Like in China, the microdramas earned as much last year as the box office.
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Wow. Well, my question is, I mean, from the little that I understand about it, it isn't that people will watch one go do something else and then watch another. They're really watching one after another. So they might be watching for minutes, say. So why is it that they want it to be in these bursts instead of continuous? Is it that we've been trained on TikTok now and so that just feels right. You're used to that kind of scroll because at first I thought that these were like, oh, I'll watch one while I'm in line, and then later on I'll watch another one. But that's not really how people consume them or enjoy them, I should say. I don't like it when people talk about consuming content. They're enjoying this.
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I think it really is born out of TikTok. I don't count myself as an expert by any means. But yes, I think people really enjoy sort of TikTok series and TikTok series of, you know, people telling their story in these two minute segments. And I think it sort of has potentially grown out of that.
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Interesting.
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I also think there's this notion that you get this little hit of pleasure at the end of every one because it's. It's like a period on the sentence at the end of everyone that gives you a little moment of pleasure.
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Oh, you know what that reminds me of is the chapters are getting shorter.
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Yes.
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A lot of time people are saying, like, there's been this move to have shorter chapters.
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Gretch, that's exactly the same thing.
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Okay. Well, Elizabeth, also, you know, I know one thing that you've talked about and that everybody in TV is aware of is that people tend to multitask when they're watching. And so, like, you have to do more signaling of certain kinds of things because you can't assume that people are, like, glued to their set as much as they might have been in the past. I mean, this seems to me like, well, maybe this lends itself if you're double watching or something like that. What do you think?
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Yeah, I think you're right. I think a lot of people watch these while they're doing dishes. I know Sarah likes to watch microdramas while she spins yarn also because they are very like, trope heavy. I think you can follow the plot very easily. So if you miss, you know, an episode because you know your child is asking you a question, you probably don't need to feel that you have to go back and re watch. You just keep going with it. Because a lot of the beats are very similar. So, yeah, I think it is just, you know, the nature of everything evolves over time. How we experience things evolves. It's not the same as watching Mad Men. You know, I'm doing my Mad Men rewatch, and I just love it so much. Watching a microdrama or vertical as of now is not gonna provide you with the same thing that watching Mad Men or the Wire is going to provide you or my new favorite show, DTF St. Louis. But it's really interesting to kind of just explore something new and learn about something new.
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Well, you know what, it kind of reminds me also about comic books and graphic novels, you know, that they were really consider this form, and that was outside of, like, literary notice or something like that. And then more and more people got into it. People saw all the possibilities of it, and now it's a whole thing. People are into it. There's a whole range of stuff being created. To me, it's exciting always to think that there's sort of a new pleasure or a new kind of art coming into being or that people are playing with a tool in a fresh way. I remember even in texts, there's a kind of humor you can have in a text that you can't have any other way. Like, I remember one time Eliza sent me a text, and I was like, the fact that it doesn't have a period makes what she said so hilarious. And I was just like, as a writer, I, like, wanted to put that up on my bulletin board because it's like, it's a kind of funniness that you couldn't do any other way. And so it's cool to think like, okay, well, maybe now this thing is happening. And like the sonnet where we have these very sort of strict rules with microdramas isn't like in groups of 16 or there's some kind of numbers related to them that I remember reading that.
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Well, they have loops. Yes, they have. You sort of need a cliffhanger or a climax every certain number of episodes. And.
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Yeah, yeah, so that's.
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There's a structure, just the way traditional TV has a structure. Movies have a structure.
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But here's the thing also that I would love to know more about. So. Oh, here's something that we've agreed to disagree about. Elizabeth. Somebody asked us about that one time. I love to reread and rewatch. And you're rewatching Mad Men, but that's very unusual for you. You don't usually read or rewatch.
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Right.
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So this makes me think of the tropes. So some people are attracted to tropes. Right. And part of what's interesting to them about tropes is that they like the predictability of them in some way. Like, there's something about that particular plot that really appeals to them, and it's kind of inexhaustible. Right. Mistaken identity. What is it? Enemies to lovers. Right. They're just like, give me enemies to lovers over and over and over again. Well, the fact is, if you know that a story is an enemies to lover, like, if you go into it saying, like, I would like a story that is enemies to lover, and somebody hands you a story, well, there's no suspense for you. What's gonna happen? You're like, these people will be enemies, then they will become lovers. Now I know. So in a way, that's like rewatching or rereading in that the element of suspense has been removed. And some people like that.
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Yes. And that is a hallmark of these microdramas is that you usually know the ending from the first episode.
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Well, it'll be interesting to know, like, as they evolve, if they stay that way or if they evolve to include more suspense or if there is just something about people liking a trope and they like the familiarity and they like it. I haven't been there in a long time on the site, so I don't even know if it's still going. Was an absolutely hilarious and brilliant site called TV Tropes. And they would break down tropes to such a sophisticated degree and show you the tropes that were working and all different things that seemed unrelated. It was absolutely compelling and interesting. So tropes are themselves very, very interesting. So when you go onto one of these apps, does it have categories that you just click on?
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Okay, that has categories for all of the different tropes and genres, and you can get pretty specific about what you're looking for. And they put out a lot of new content all the time because I think people watch these once you're not rewatching these.
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Yeah, yeah. Then you have tropes, and then you have the people that subvert the tropes. Remember Cabin in the Woods?
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Yes.
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That movie that was playing with a lot of classic horror. And you watch it. And you're like, oh, my gosh, this is, like, so on the nose, like, what's happening? This is exactly like every other horror movie I've ever seen in my life. And then it starts getting played with, which then. That's interesting.
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Yes.
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So all these things change. Like you said, they evolve. Listen, do you think there's any way you could have micro drama with reality TV?
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I 100% do. I've been pondering that. I absolutely think there's going to be reality. I mean, and that's TikTok, Right? And that's really the TikTok of it all started this. Yes. I absolutely think there could be more of a reality version of microdrama. I don't know what it'll look like, but I 100% think it'll happen.
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And I guess people will just start doing all kinds of mashup. We'll have game show microdrama. We'll have true crime microdrama. It's just like a new form that people can play with. So that's interesting. Okay, well, I'm gonna have to check it out, because now I'm very, very curious.
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Yes. And I have to say, there is a wide range of quality, Gretchen. So I just want to tell people that if they're looking like, just be aware. Some of them are really, really bare bones, not experienced actors, not experienced writers. And some of them are very sophisticated, beautifully shot, and can be quite moving. So there is a real range. You kind of have to just dive in and see what takes your fancy.
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Now, I know with Elizabeth, with TV shows, you've said to me, to really give a TV show a fair shot, you should watch three episodes. Because the pilot is always the hardest, and it has to establish so much. It's hard for it to really be really great. And then in the second episode, you have to do everything you did in the pilot, but then you have to move it forward. So then that's really hard. But then by the time you've watched three episodes, you really have a sense of this is the show, this is where it's going. And so if you want to know if you're gonna like a show, you're better off giving it three episodes. How about a microdrama? Is there a minimum microdrama to evaluate before you're like, okay, not this one. I'm gonna try the next one?
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I don't yet have a theory on that, Gretchen. It's too new. No theory. I don't know. I'm learning all of this myself. I mean, as I said, I am not an expert. I am just interested in it. You know, I like to step into the future as we talk about, do you want to be part of the next generation or the last generation? So I like to educate myself, but I am not the expert in microdramas.
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Okay. Interesting.
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Okay, Gretch, what is our quotation this week?
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This comes from the novel Mating by Norman Rush. This is a passage that has haunted me my whole life. There was an opulent sunset. I was standing under an acacia in bloom, and the words shower of gold came into my mind, followed by a surge of feeling. I call it greed, but it was more a feeling of wanting a surplus in my life, wanting to have too much of something for a change. I didn't want to be a candidate anymore, not for a doctorate or anything else else. I wanted to be at the next level where things would come to me, accrue to me. It was acute.
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Now there's a book I should reread.
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Mm. Yes. So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?
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Yes, I am feeling happier. Thank you to Chuck. Bye, Gretch.
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Bye, Elizabeth. The best time to speak start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now, Elizabeth, with the Real Housewives. Do you ever go back and watch, like, a first season just to see them, like, young and innocent and, like, what were they doing back in the beginning or. No, it wouldn't be interesting to do that.
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I don't, but many, many people do. Yes, it's very common. People will go back and watch the first couple seasons. New York, for instance. I could see myself doing that someday.
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Interesting. Hi, Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here.
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We host a new podcast called IMO
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with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving
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advice, so we wanted to get a
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few tips from you.
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You know, Gretchen, a lot of our
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listeners are going through some major life changes.
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What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?
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Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends. You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever you get podcasts, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Keke Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.