Move Happier: Would You Spend a Week Hiding Out in the Metropolitan Museum?

Summary

Happier with Gretchen Rubin – Move Happier: Would You Spend a Week Hiding Out in the Metropolitan Museum?

Date: May 10, 2026
Host: Gretchen Rubin
Guest: Sophie G. (English Professor, Podcast Host)

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Episode Overview

In this special “Move Happier” bonus episode, Gretchen Rubin teams up with her longtime friend and literary scholar, Sophie G., for a unique blend of literary conversation, movement, and museum exploration. The episode is part of the 2026 Move 26 Challenge, encouraging listeners to move for 26 minutes a day. Their theme: discussing the beloved children’s classic From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler by E.L. Konigsberg, while retracing the steps of the book’s adventurous sibling duo inside The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why This Book, Why the Met, Why Now?

• Background on Move 26 Challenge: Gretchen and her audience are focused on incorporating 26 minutes of movement daily in 2026, often using audiobooks to combine exercise with intellectual engagement.
  • “For our own personal 26 minutes of movement, Sophie and I are going to talk about a book that is a favorite of both ... and we’re also going to explore the Metropolitan Museum and look for items related to this iconic book.” (03:09, Gretchen)
• About Sophie G.: English professor, acolyte of children’s literature, and podcast host, Sophie is also Gretchen’s former book club member.
  • “On Slob, I and my cohost Jonty Claypole, we like to joke that we read the classic books so that you don’t have to...” (04:21, Sophie)
• Audiobooks & Movement: Both advocate listening to literature while walking, with Sophie noting new research showing similar cognitive benefits to reading physical books.
  • “It’s just as good for you mentally, cognitively, to listen to an audiobook as it is to read a physical text.” (04:58, Sophie)

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2. Why From The Mixed-Up Files Remains a Classic

• Konigsberg’s Unique Literary Status:
  • Only person to win both the Newbery Medal and be a runner-up in the same year.
  • “She’s absolutely extraordinary ... This is the most iconic of her iconic books.” (05:55, Gretchen)
• The Story’s Setup:
  • Claudia (11) and Jamie (9) run away from home to live in the Metropolitan Museum in NYC, solving a mystery about a possibly Michelangelo-sculpted angel.
  • Opening lines discussed as a “perfect landing in a place.” (07:17, Gretchen)
  • “This seems like the kind of adventure you could pull off ... the way it’s explained, you think, yeah, it seems completely plausible.” (07:41, Gretchen)
  • Sophie notes: in the 1960s, this plan was “just about” possible due to less technology and lighter security. (08:21, Sophie)
• Classic Children’s Book Tropes:
  • Survival (finding food/money, staying undetected), city as adventure-scape, resourceful kids in an adult world.

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3. The Story within the Story: Layered Narratives & Frame Structures

• Narrative Complexity:
  • Narration by Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler, addressed to her lawyer (Saxenberg), introduces a mysterious meta-perspective.
  • Gretchen admits not fully grasping the Saxenberg angle until adulthood.
    • “I think I was, like, 40 years old before I truly understood who is Saxenberg …” (14:09, Gretchen)
  • Sophie connects this to classic literature’s “frame narrative” tradition (e.g., Great Gatsby, Wuthering Heights), where the narrator’s perspective shapes the whole story.
• Sophistication for Young Readers:
  • “I love about Konigsberg ... she really pitches ideas at a level that are very, very sophisticated. ... Many people writing for adults don’t assume that children would be interested in and can follow.” (15:46, Gretchen)
  • The story offers layers—an adventure for children, and a more philosophical dimension for adults.

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4. What Makes a Book a Classic?

• Both discuss the evolving reader experience:
  • Gretchen: "You can return to [a classic] over and over again and you always see something new, either because you as the reader are different ...” (19:33, Gretchen)
  • Sophie: "It’s inexhaustible partly because it reveals to you as a reader how much you change over time.” (19:45, Sophie)
• Ambiguity as a Factor: Gentle ambiguity, allowing for re-interpretation each time; keeps the book fresh for decades.
  • “There are some ambiguities ... about the Kincaid family. ... They live in Greenwich, which is a very fancy New York commuter suburb. But there’s something a little bit outsider y about them.” (20:10, Sophie)

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5. In-Depth Character Study: Claudia’s Journey

• Character Arc:
  • Claudia runs away not out of anger but out of a desire for transformation—she wants to be changed by her adventure.
  • “She wants to leave behind the boredom of ... simply being straight A Claudia Kincaid.” (21:26, Gretchen)
  • Claudia’s “off-script” moment (choosing to visit Mrs. Frankweiler in Farmington) signals her personal growth.
    • “Part of why it’s such a great turning point is that Claudia goes off script. And so we know that she’s kind of growing up and finding herself.” (24:31, Sophie)
• Role of Mrs. Frankweiler:
  • Adult parallel to Claudia; both seek mystery and transformation.

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6. Literary Walking Tour: Exploring the Met with the Book as a Guide

(Begins at 25:00)

• Setting Out:
  • Retrace Claudia and Jamie’s route: start at Madison & 80th ("the most civilized street corner in the world" per Konigsberg).
    • Sophie reads, “She found Jamie standing on that corner … consulting a compass and announcing that when they turned left, they would be heading due northwest.” (26:16, Sophie)
• Key Museum Stops:
  • The Great Hall:
    • “She must have felt fabulous walking in here even in the 1960s…” (29:23, Sophie)
  • Egyptian Wing:
    • Visit the tomb of Pereb; school groups as hiding spots; magical Egyptian art fondly remembered by book’s protagonists. (30:10)
    • Gretchen’s favorite object: The God Horus (“It’s so stern. It’s so beautiful.”) (30:45, Gretchen)
  • The Cat Statue:
    • “...having a smug expression much like ... Claudia's.” (31:28, Gretchen)
    • Sophie: “There’s a phenomenal illustration ... Claudia does indeed look like a Cheshire cat.” (31:37)
  • Instrument Cases Installation – Wishful Thinking:
    • Gretchen’s fantasy: permanent installation of “two instrument cases and a book bag” in the corner to honor the story. (31:54+)
  • European Decorative Arts Rooms:
    • The “popcorn kernel” origin story for the book—a real Met encounter by Konigsberg and her children. (32:41+)
  • The Bed & The (Vanished) Fountain:
    • Many beloved features from the book (beds, the Fountain of the Muses) are gone or replaced at the Met, but spirit endures. (33:42+)
  • The Bathrooms:
    • Critical for evasion—read-aloud of Claudia’s clever plan to evade the guards by keeping their feet off the floor. (35:30)
  • The Steps of the Met:
    • End their walk overlooking NYC from the grand staircase.
    • “I’m kind of glad to sit down because we definitely got our move 26 in.” (36:47, Gretchen)

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7. Audiobooks and Re-Reading

• Audiobook Endorsement: Sophie gives a strong recommendation for the audiobook version as a companion for walking/movement. (37:16)
• Re-Read Value: Both emphasize how each re-reading reveals richer layers—making it a true classic.

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Notable Quotes

• “I know. I’m so excited now just to set the scene. We are now in my apartment. We’re in the room where all of my children’s literature books are. So we’re like really imbibing the atmosphere.”
  — Gretchen Rubin (05:09)
• “One of the things that I loved about this book as a child and even as an adult is this seems like the kind of adventure you could pull off ...”
  — Gretchen Rubin (07:41)
• “You can return to it over and over again and you always see something new, either because you as the reader are different, because you’re in a different part of your life, or you pick up something that you’ve never picked up before.”
  — Gretchen Rubin (19:33)
• “Part of why it’s such a great turning point is that Claudia goes off script. And so we know that she’s kind of growing up and finding herself.”
  — Sophie G. (24:31)
• “It totally, totally answered our expectations. And so on the Secret Life of Books, we always ask, is this book underrated or overrated?”
  — Sophie G. (37:32)
• “I think it cannot be overrated. And so it’s ... justly considered a towering classic of children’s literature, all literature, and I think it deserves it.”
  — Gretchen Rubin (37:41)
• “As much loved as it is, it should be loved even more. It’s a great work of fiction, one of the classics, one of the true classics.”
  — Sophie G. (37:50)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:09 – Introduction of Sophie G.; setup for Move 26 and literary walk.
• 05:09 – About E.L. Konigsberg and the novel’s literary stature.
• 07:17 – Read-aloud of the novel’s opening, discussion of its plausibility and set-up.
• 14:09 – Discussion of the frame narrative and narrative voice.
• 19:33 – Conversation about what makes a classic.
• 21:26 – Claudia’s transformation and character arc.
• 25:00 – Begin walking to the Met; discussion of NYC setting.
• 29:23 – Arrival at the Met; exploring key objects and rooms.
• 31:54 – Gretchen’s fantasy Met installation (homage to the novel’s setting).
• 33:42 – The iconic (now vanished) Fountain of the Muses.
• 35:30 – Hiding in the Met bathrooms—read-aloud of Claudia’s detailed plan.
• 36:47 – Concluding thoughts on their “Move 26” and the adventure.
• 37:16 – Recommendation of the audiobook version.
• 37:41 – The “underrated or overrated” verdict.

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Memorable Moments

• Gretchen’s childhood fantasy: searching for the novel’s real-life settings during her first ever visit to the Met. (24:45, Gretchen)
• Sophie’s account of Konigsberg’s own “popcorn kernel” moment in the Met that inspired the book. (32:41, Gretchen & Sophie)
• Their playful debate: Is the novel “overrated” or “underrated?” (37:32-37:50)

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Conclusion & Listener Takeaways

• The episode offers a dynamic mix of book chat, literary analysis, and practical tips to combine movement with reading, encouraging listeners to explore literary classics in new ways—ideally, with a bit of real-world adventure mixed in.
• From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler is celebrated as a perennial classic, with rich insights for adults and children alike, made even more magical when explored in its real-world inspiration: the Metropolitan Museum.
• Audiobooks serve as a perfect companion for daily movement, allowing stories to be discovered and rediscovered in motion.
• Challenge for listeners: Grab the book (or audiobook), take a walk, and rediscover the joy of literary adventure.

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End of summary

Transcript

[Sophie G.]

Lemonada.

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Imagine your mom's medication list, your fitness insights and your child's latest checkup notes all in one protected space. No more digging through the files or chasing portal passwords. Just peace of mind knowing your health story is safe, organized and shared only with those you trust. Because managing health should be shared and vividvault makes it simple for your whole village to stay involved. Prioritize your well being, protect your family's future. Sign up [e-mail]. Hello, we're here for Move Happier, a bonus episode of the Happier with Gretchen Rubin Podcast where we get happier and we are also working on adding more movement into our everyday lives. Join us for some weekend listening, a looser vibe, and some movement to boot camp. Now. This is a super fun bonus episode. I'm joined by my old friend Sophie G. For a literary walk. As we've talked about on the Happier with Gretchen Rubin Podcast this year for 2026, my co host and sister Elizabeth and I are challenging ourselves and listeners to move 26 to move for 26 minutes a day in 2026. In this episode, for our own personal 26 minutes of movement, Sophie and I are going to talk about a book that is a favorite of both from the Mixed up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler. And we're also going to explore the Metropolitan Museum and look for items related to this iconic book. For your own 26 minutes of movement, you can listen in on our conversation and we made voice recordings along the way. But before you hear from Sophie and me, let me tell you about Sophie. Sophie G. Is an English professor at Princeton University and is currently the Inaugural Vice Chancellor's Fellow at the University of Sydney, and she's leading a project that shares the ideas and skills of humanities across all parts of the university and into the public. She's the author of acclaimed fiction and literary criticism, including Making leftovers on the 18th century imagination and the forthcoming the Barbarous Feast Eating and writing in the 18th century world, and she has written a novel, the Scandal of the Season. She is also the host of one of my very favorite favorite podcasts, the very popular podcast the Secret Life of Books, which is a brilliant, hilarious and addictive podcast about the hidden stories behind Masterpiece Books. Not only that, Sophie is a former member of my children's literature reading group. So for today's episode, Sophie and I are going to combine 26 minutes of moving with a discussion of a classic children's book. The novel we've chosen, as I said, is the masterpiece of children's literature from the Mixed up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler by E.L. konigsberg. And because that novel takes place in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, we're going to walk through the museum together. One of the odd things about me is that ever since I wrote my book Life in Five Senses, I've visited the Met every day. I feel like the more I go, the more there is to see. I'm excited to make this visit with Sophie. Hi, Sophie.

[Sophie G.]

Hi, Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This is so fun.

[Sophie G.]

This is so fun.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I am so excited to be spending this time with you. How great. And you know, I am the hugest fan of the Secret Life of Books, so I'm very excited to have this, like, mashup.

[Sophie G.]

Thank you. Right back at you. I feel like this has been something we've sort of wanted to do for 15 years and now we're finally doing it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Sophie G.]

So I love that we're doing this for move 26, Gretchen, because it's very consistent with the worldview of slob the secret life of Books, which is my podcast. And on Slob, I and my co host, Jonty Claypole, we like to joke that we read the classic books so that you don't have to. We don't totally mean that. What we really mean is that we read classic books to help people discover and rediscover the fun and the joy of their greatness in a low impact, high cardio way. So one of the very best ways to find joy in classic books is with audiobooks, I think.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. Yes.

[Sophie G.]

Listening while you move and studies now show that it's just as good for you mentally, cognitively, to listen to an audiobook as it is to read a physical text. So couldn't be better for move 26.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I know. I'm so excited now just to set the scene, we are now in my apartment. We're in the room where all of my children's literature books are. So we're like really imbibing the atmosphere. And let's set the stage because we are going to head to the Met to look at some of the objects in the Brilliant from the Mixed up files of Mrs. Baisy Lee Frankwiller. But just to give people an idea of who EL Konigsberg is, the author. She wrote so many extraordinary novels for children. I mean, many of her books are among my very favorite novels of all time. And she is the only author ever to have won the very prestigious Newbery Medal and to be a runner up in the same year.

[Sophie G.]

It's totally amazing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And it was like right at the beginning of her career too, on the same list on the same year. She's absolutely extraordinary. And I think this is probably. What do you think? I mean, you're all about the iconic book. I think this is the most iconic of her iconic books. Do you think?

[Sophie G.]

I think it is, yeah, I think it is. I mean there's something just. It's a perfect book.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's a perfect.

[Sophie G.]

I realize when I, every time I read it. Yeah. It's just like this is a perfect book.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Sophie G.]

And then she actually won the Newbury again. She won it a second time. For the View from Saturday.

[Gretchen Rubin]

For the View from Saturday.

[Sophie G.]

For the view from Saturday 30 years later. Incredible.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But there's so many books that should have won.

[Sophie G.]

Yes, she's amazing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, she's amazing.

[Sophie G.]

So, Gretchen, let me set the listeners up with how this novel goes. 11 year old Claudia Kincaid and her 9 year old brother Jamie decide that they're going to run away from their Connecticut suburb. They're in Greenwich and they're going to spend a week living at in the Met in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. They sleep in an elegant but extremely musty 16th century bed. They scoop up their spending money from a fountain inside the museum, which we're going to talk about in a minute. And they even tackle an important mystery about the authenticity of a statue that has recently arrived in the museum that has been attributed to Michelangelo. And the book just goes from there. It's such a roller coaster. Let's hear the opening. Because it's an incredible landing in a place.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It is the sense that you get of Claudia, her character, why they're doing this. It's brilliant. Claudia knew that she could never pull off the old fashioned kind of running away that is running away in the heat of anger with a knapsack on her back. She didn't like discomfort. Even picnics were untidy and inconvenient. All those insects and the sun melting the icing on the cupcakes. Therefore, she decided that her leaving home would not be just running from somewhere, but would be running to somewhere. To a large place, a comfortable place and an indoor place, and preferably a beautiful place. And that is why she decided upon The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. I mean, so brilliant. And can I say, one of the things that I loved about this book as a child and even as an adult is this seems like the kind of adventure you could pull off. Like, the way it's explained, you think, yeah, it seems completely plausible that they could do this. Yeah.

[Sophie G.]

And I. So this book was published in 1968. That was the year that it won the Newbery. And I almost think that in 1968, you just about could have pulled it off. I know. And probably the art would have. The art would have been alarmed, but they hide out in the restrooms. We'll talk about that. Two kids coming into New York City on Metro North. I mean, you could have done that in the 1960s and you'd sort of be okay. Like, you can sort of understand why the parents didn't have a giant police search for them.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. And you can understand, like, why the Met didn't have the technology, like the motion detective detection sensors and like the counting of the people going in and out. Like, the way they did. It seemed like, yeah, this could have worked.

[Sophie G.]

You could just about do it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You could just about do it.

[Sophie G.]

And that's the beauty of this book. So there's a lot about the book, I think, that makes it a real classic. Even beyond the classic setting of New York City and the Metropolitan Museum and the romance of running away. I mean, these are all sort of iconic tropes of children's books.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And the survivalism. Like, there's so many books in children's that it's like, how are we going to find food? How are we going to scrape together the money that we can't do without? Like, that's always a big.

[Sophie G.]

A big trope. And normally in kids books, I think, where there's a running away story, well, as Jamie thinks is going to happen because he brings his compass with him. He thinks they're going to run into the woods. He thinks they're going to kind of. They're going to go wild and they're going to have to hunt and forage for their food. And what's so beautiful and wonderful, I think, for adults reading this book, is that the settings in New York City, like the Automat, where they go and buy their kind of inexpensive food from for each meal, the laundromat, where they end up doing a unsuccessful load of laundry, even the cafeteria in the museum, these are the places where they end up foraging and searching. And Jamie gets to use his compass

[Gretchen Rubin]

after all, because they're in New York

[Sophie G.]

City, so you actually do need to know your directions. Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's so fun.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Coming up, you'll hear more of our conversation about from the Mixed up files of Mrs. Bazilee Frankweiler. But first, this break.

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[Gretchen Rubin]

Imagine your mom's medication list, your fitness insights, and your child's latest checkup notes all in one protected space. No more digging through the files or chasing portal passwords. Just peace of mind knowing your health story is safe, organized and shared only with those you trust. Because managing health should be shared and vividvault makes it simple for your whole village to stay involved. Prioritize your well being, protect your family's future. Sign up [e-mail] hey, it's Julia Louis

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[Gretchen Rubin]

One of the things that struck me rereading this for, like, the bazillionth time, I really focused on the story within a story because Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler is actually the narrator of this story in a way that you don't quite understand until the very end. And, Sophie, I have to confess, I think I was, like, 40 years old before I truly understood who is Saxenberg? Who.

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What.

[Gretchen Rubin]

How has this been put together? Who has stitched together this narrative? All the pieces are there. It's explained perfectly, clearly.

[Sophie G.]

Totally.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But you're so caught up in, like, the excitement of the adventure that I didn't really focus on things like who is the audience for it.

[Sophie G.]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Because there is a very. There's one person who this whole story is told to. And we're told that in the very.

[Sophie G.]

In the second paragraph or something. Yeah, exactly. No, it's an amazing piece of storytelling. So one of. So. So there's a few things to pull out from what you just said. It's a mystery story as well as a child's adventure story. And both of those things make it completely compelling because actually, both parts of it are quite complex.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Sophie G.]

The mystery of the angel, the statue in the Metropolitan, the Michelangelo statue that they're trying to find, the provenance of, that's a genuine mystery. It's encased within the mystery of who is this woman, Mrs. Bazilee Frankweiler, who's narrating, and who is this man Sachsenberg, who she's writing to? He's her lawyer. We know that he's a tax attorney, but we don't really know what he's doing in this story. And I think maybe we shouldn't tell listeners just in case they haven't read it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. This is the thing about the Secret Life of Books is, like, you do hold back to spoilers.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah. Do you hold spoilers back or do you go for it?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, whenever we do a book club, we assume that everybody's read it, so we go into spoilers. I'm happy to spoil the book, but part of what I love about Secret Life of Books is. Is it does often inspire me to go read a book that I haven't read before. So let's respect the spoilers somewhat. I think we have to.

[Sophie G.]

There's a few things we have to say.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There's a few things that we really have to get to. But one of the things that I realized, one of the things that I love about Konigsberg is that she really pitches ideas at a level that are very, very sophisticated. And I think many people writing for adults don't assume that children would be interested in and can follow. And she really goes there with all these books. Like, one of my other favorite books is the second Mrs. Jaconda. And that's about the nature of creativity and the nature of character in a very sophisticated way. And I feel like here, the way the story is told, we have the narrative kind of as it's unfolding of the two children and what they're doing, but in parentheses, we get an adult narrator with a much more sophisticated sense of like, the world and their own natures commenting on it. Like, there's an amazing moment where the two children are. They often will attach themselves to school groups because Claudia's determined to learn something every day. And the narrator says in parentheses, like, they learn to be part of a group on the outside of a group, but never truly part of the group. And she says, some people learn, never learn to do this, and some people learn to do it too well. And even as like a 10 year old, I understood that was a profound insight into human nature. But Claudia wouldn't have thought that. Jamie wouldn't have thought that.

[Sophie G.]

Exactly.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But we know who is telling us that. It's Mrs. Frank Wyler.

[Sophie G.]

Exactly. So you need these two levels of the story. And I was thinking about it in the context of other novels that have what we call frame narratives, which is so common.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, you've just been talking about what's the Albatross?

[Sophie G.]

Oh, the Rime of the Ancient Mariner. We've just been talking about the Rime of the Ancient Mariner with the Wedding Guest. So we talked about Great Gatsby, which lots of people will have read. We talked about Conrad and we've talked about the other great frame narrative that's just been all. Everywhere in the news is Wuthering Heights.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Sophie G.]

And the thing about all of those frame narratives, when you look closely at them, is that the narrator, the person who's telling the story, Frankenstein, is also a frame narrative, actually. The narrator is the stooge. The narrator is the dumb person who doesn't get the full dimensions of the story. And so the reader and the other characters have to kind of put it together. The thing that I think is completely fascinating about Mixed Up Files and you're drawing attention to this, Gretchen, is the way that the narrator, Mrs. Bazilie, Frankweiler and Saxonberg, in the way background is telling one story and the children are telling another story, and they're equally important stories and they have to toggle between one another.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Sophie G.]

And I was kind of thinking about this because I was listening to it on the weekend with my children, and we've listened to it, I don't know, probably 15 times across their lifetimes. They're now older teenagers and they're now getting the second story. They're getting the adult story. And it's so interesting watching people, watching readers integrate those two stories. Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, it reminds me of Laura Ingalls Wilder, because as the books become. As Laura gets older and the stories become more complex, as an adult, you see things that are implied or things that the child Laura does not see, but we see what's up with PA and the financial situation, you know, as a child. Yeah. And so it's interesting. And maybe one of the things you always talk about in Secret Life of Books is what makes a book a classic and something like this, where every time you read it, you can appreciate a level of it that you couldn't see before.

[Sophie G.]

Totally. Totally. Actually, let me sneak in a stealth Secret Life of Books question to you, which I've never had a chance to ask you for. What makes a book a classic for you, Gretchen?

[Gretchen Rubin]

I think it's this idea that you can return to it over and over again and you always see something new, either because you as the reader are different, because you're in a different part of your life, or you pick up something that you've never picked up before.

[Sophie G.]

Isn't that interesting? And I think it's inexhaustible. Inexhaustible partly because it reveals to you as a reader how much you change over time. So it's about the book, but it's also about you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But didn't you. Did you two talk about the idea that ambiguity, if there's some fundamental ambiguity in the book, that also it keeps people engaged, like over the decades, because you can never truly determine something about

[Sophie G.]

what the deal is.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Sophie G.]

And I would actually want to make the case that that's part of. I think that's what you're saying, that that's part of what makes a classic. And I think it's part of the mixed up files, actually. You know, the ambiguities. They're soft, they're gentle, they're not clubbing you over the head. But there are some ambiguities, for example, about the Kincaid family. So Claudia and Jamie's family, they live in Greenwich, which is a very fancy New York commuter suburb. But there's something a little bit outsider y about them. We learn early on in a kind of humorous. Well, adults find it humorous. Aside from Claudia when she says, we don't have a full time maid, we just have a cleaning lady who comes, I think, every day. Oh, no, she comes twice a week. Twice a week.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But I thought maybe that was just to establish clean Claudia's sense of grievance. And like, she's. Like, she was sure everybody else got more allowance than she did. And nobody else had to do as many tours as she did. So I'm not sure that we're supposed to think that she's correct.

[Sophie G.]

I see.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Or is that just her feeling that she's.

[Sophie G.]

Well, I think it's kind of put upon. Right? I mean, she's definitely put upon.

[Gretchen Rubin]

She has. That's part of why she's running away.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah. So let's talk a bit about Claudia, Gretchen. Cause she's a wonderful main character. And you made a great point about her. There's a real change happening in her character as the book unfolds. And what do you think's going on?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, Claudia wants to be different. She wants to. That's part of why she wants to run away. She wants to do something secret. She wants to plan. She wants to pull something off. She wants to leave behind the boredom of. What does she say? She was bored with simply being straight A Claudia Kincaid. And so. And you can tell that she really delights in just figuring out every single angle. That's part of what it is. But then as she's experiencing this running away, it gets bigger. And just running away, she says to Jamie, it's not enough anymore. She needs to be changed in a different way, a bigger way.

[Sophie G.]

And that's another way, I think, in which this book is so beautifully thought out. Because initially it just seems like they're gonna run. Run away to the Metropolitan. It seems like the question is, are they gonna pull it off? Are they gonna get caught, et cetera. And then it actually transforms what, again, seems to be sort of an intellectual mystery, namely, did Michelangelo carve this sculpture? But actually turns into a kind of characterological and psychological mystery. Is Claudia going to find the thing in herself that she hasn't yet found the thing that takes her beyond just being a straight A student. And again, I think that's where Mrs. Bazili Frankweiler comes in in this amazing way, because she's telling the story. She obviously closely identifies with Claudia. And so we can sort of glimpse adult Claudia, we can glimpse the Claudia that she's trying to get to, even though Claudia doesn't know, because Mrs. Bazili Frankweiler. Mrs. Frankweiler is telling. Is telling the story. And I think it's very moving. It's very beautiful. One of my favorite scenes in the book, and this is a little bit of a spoiler, is when they end up at Mrs. Frankweiler's house, which is in Farmington, Connecticut. It's a very fancy mansion, basically filled

[Gretchen Rubin]

with the taxi driver. This is all her prepsy. It's a very funny scene.

[Sophie G.]

It's a great scene. And Mrs. Frankweiler invites Claudia to go take a bath. And it's one of the best things.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No, no, no, she doesn't invite her. Remember, she says, you can go wash up. And Claudia just decides to take a bath. She's like, I'll never have another chance with this.

[Sophie G.]

That's right. And there's like gold taps and, you know, Marlowe and stuff. And it's this scene of someone coming into themselves as an adult and just loving the sensuous pleasure of bathing and so on. And Claudia's a beautiful character. There's another turning point for Claudia's character. So her genius seems to be that she's plotted this adventure out. She's thought about how to get from their house in Greenwich to the train station to the Met, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So we think she's just really good on the logistics. And then there's this crucial moment towards the end when they end up visiting Mrs. Frankweiler and they're at Grand Central Station. They're about to go home to their parents house in Greenwich and sort of admit defeat. And Claudia suddenly interrupts Jamie, her brother, who's ordering the tickets, and she says, no, we' going to Farmington, Connecticut. And part of why it's such a great turning point is that Claudia goes off script. And so we know that she's kind of growing up and finding herself.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah. She's finding a new gear.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's because in the moment you're like, why are they going to Farmington, Connecticut? Because it's a clue that's been planted very subtly, but right on the page.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah, yeah. It's so good.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, Sophie, let's get going. Let's walk over to the Met so we can look at some of the places and objects that appear in the novel. Because I have to say, the very first time I visited the Met as a college student, the first thing I did was run around and look for the stuff.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah, we're going live, Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We're going out into the streets of

[Sophie G.]

New York in the wild, wild terrain of the Metropolitan Museum. And word of warning, we are not taking a compass.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No, we're not. Okay? We're out on the street. We're on our own. We're halfway to the Met.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah, we're on a really important corner right now, Gretchen. This is the corner of Madison and 80th Street. And the reason it's important is that El Konigsberg says that it's the most civilized street corner in the world. And I'm sort of thinking that when they. When Claudia and Jamie were here, there was probably not a love shack fancy on one corner and a l' Occitane soap shop on the other, but here we are. Now I just want to read one tiny passage, actually. Hang on. Oh, here we go. Okay, so here we are. From Claudia. We'd better walk up Madison Avenue, she told her brother. I'll see too many ways to spend our precious money if we walk on 5th Avenue. Which tells us something interesting about the city changing. She and Jamie did not walk exactly side by side. Her violin case is kept bumping him, and he began to walk a few steps ahead of her. As Claudia's pace slowed down from what she was sure was an accumulation of carbon dioxide in her system. She wanted to get a taxi. Jamie's face quickened. Soon he was walking a block and a half ahead of her. They would meet when a red light held him up at one of these mutual stops. Claudia instructed Jamie to wait for her on the corner of Madison Avenue and 80th street, for there they would turn into 5th Avenue. She found Jamie standing on that corner, probably one of the most civilized street corners in the whole world, consulting a compass and announcing that when they turned left, they would be heading due northwest. So, Gretchen, let's head to you. Northwest.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. Okay. We see the edge of the Met looming before us. Here we go. Coming up. Sophie and I actually go inside the Met and start looking around. There's a first this break.

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

we're in the museum and we are standing in the magnificent great hall, which is quite imposing.

[Sophie G.]

It's absolutely extraordinary. And you can see why Claudia Kincaid picked the Metropolitan Museum. She says that she can't go anywhere that isn't elegant and boy she must have felt fabulous walking in here even in the 1960s when they probably didn't have these stunning vases of fresh flowers that there's a bequest that gives Special fresh flowers to the Metropolitan Museum. I'm pro flowers. I'm going to declare myself then this week or this month, it's forsythia. So the feeling of spring is all around us in this gloriously elegant hall.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. Okay, so now we're going to walk through. Let's start in the Egyptian wing. There's a lot of good Egyptian stuff. Okay, Sophie, here we go.

[Sophie G.]

Okay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. Well, almost. First thing as we enter the Egyptian wing is we see that tomb.

[Sophie G.]

It's the tomb of

[Gretchen Rubin]

Pereb.

[Sophie G.]

It's the tomb of Pereb. We did a little cheat there.

[Gretchen Rubin]

We.

[Sophie G.]

We checked the pl. And they run into a school group.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, they run into their school group. It's people that they actually know, so they have to suddenly hide.

[Sophie G.]

They have to lay low, which they succeed in doing. But they love the Egyptian wing, and I think. I think it's because there's something incredibly magical and mysterious about the Egyptian material.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. And you can actually go into the temple. Okay. There's more to see in the Egyptian. Off we go. Okay, Sophie, Claudia, and Jamie didn't see this, but this is my very favorite object in the entire met.

[Sophie G.]

Describe it and tell us why it's beautiful.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's called the God Horse protecting King Nectanaba ii, which is not the most mellifluous name, but it's gray whack, and it's just pure. It's the God Horus. It's so stern. It's so beautiful.

[Sophie G.]

It's unbelievably beautiful. I'm so glad we stopped, because I've never really looked that closely at this before. Is there something about how it's small but incredibly impactful? Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. It is small for an Egyptian.

[Sophie G.]

And it's kind of the spirit of this book because Claudia wants to know everything, and then she settles for knowing a little bit every day and just finding something new every time you come into a museum. It's so much what you're supposed to do.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Exactly. Okay, now let's go look for the cat.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, here we are. We're looking at the cat statue, which is described as having a smug expression much like. Exactly like Claudia's.

[Sophie G.]

And there's a phenomenal illustration that we just took a photo of where Claudia does indeed look like a Cheshire cat. Yes. But isn't it a beautiful cat? And it's got that same quality that the. That the Horace statue had of. Of. It's very compact, it's very tight, but it has incredible power. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. So good.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, so Sophie, I just have to show you this. My fantasy is that if I were the head of the Met, I would put in a permanent statue or installation of two instrument cases and a book bag and just have them in the corner so that everybody. Everybody could find it. So this is the corner. It's this sort of little nothing corner that's roped off along one of the Egyptian corridors.

[Sophie G.]

I was fair to say it's the least civilized cor in the material.

[Gretchen Rubin]

What's going on? Do something here.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah, I need to get the. That's such a good idea.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Wouldn't that be fun?

[Sophie G.]

You should hit me to suggest.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, we'll get on that.

[Sophie G.]

Okay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Something to chew.

[Sophie G.]

So, Gretchen, we're now in the European decorative arts in these incredible rooms that have been installed within the Metropolitan Museum. And this is the perfect moment. Tell us about the popcorn.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. So when El Konigsberg was a mother of three children, she would take art class. And during that time, her children would wander around the Met, and then she would join them. And according to her son Paul, one time when they were wandering around, they were looking at a room just like the room we're looking at that was roped off and very formal, but there was one piece, one kernel of popcorn far across the room, sitting on a cushion. And she said, I wonder how that piece of popcorn got there. And they always speculated that maybe that was the colonel.

[Sophie G.]

The colonel of an idea. You got that?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Who had been eating popcorn in that room?

[Sophie G.]

And here's what Paul Konigsberg said about those trips to the Met all those years ago. He says, I was the oldest, so I was in charge. And I had three rules. One, we had to see the mummy. Two, we had to see the Knights in Armour. And three, I didn't care what we saw. Mom would meet up with us in the museum, take us to study Impressionist or modern art. It always made me want to puke. But we did it every weekend for over a year. So he's obviously the Jamie Kincaid.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Exactly. Okay. Onward. Okay, here we are looking at a bed that's very much like the bed that they slept in. It's big, it's formal, it's probably very musty, but it isn't this exact bed, because that exact bed is now gone. And one of the things. You know, it's been a long time since the book came out, and a lot of the things, the specific things that they looked at and referenced aren't here exactly.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah, they're here in spirit. So one of the most iconic things in the whole book is the Fountain of the Muses, which is this enormous sort of swimming pool sized fountain in the middle of what used to be the restaurant. Very elegant, very Claudia compliant. And they end up going and bathing in this fountain and discovering, of course, that it has coins on the base. And they find them with their feet because it's dark and as Jamie says, income. So they start scooping the coins off the bottom. So that fountain has gone. It turned out to be a health hazard. It was removed in the 1980s. It now lives in South Carolina in a public park. But at the time, the room where the fountain was installed was famously decorated by an amazing New York designer called Dorothy Draper. And the room was nicknamed the Dorotheum by scathing New York financiers and supporters of the museum. All those men joked about it being the Dorothea, but I think that's very appropriate for dear Claudia, who we love so much, who comes into her heroism in that room.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, that baton is gone. But there are other water features in the Met. But not.

[Sophie G.]

But not that one.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, okay. Our lamb stump inside the Met is in the bathroom, which is not a very elegant snap, but it played a very important role in allowing the children to hide out in, which was a phrase that Claudia did not appreciate. But they spent a lot of time in the bathrooms.

[Sophie G.]

Totally. And the bathrooms are crucial because in the low tech days of the 1960s, they were really able to sneak into a stall and just stand on the toilet. And here's the passage. Claudia explains the plan. Claudia explained to Jamie that he was to enter a booth in the men's room and then stand on it. She continued. Stand on it. Stand on what? Jamie demanded. You know, Claudia insisted. Stand on it. You mean stand on the toilet? Jamie needed everything spelled out. What else would I mean? What else is there? In a booth in the men's room. And keep your head down and keep the door to the booth very slightly open. Claudia finished. Clever, Claudia. Feet up, head down, door open. Why? Because I'm certain that when they check the ladies room and the men's room, they peek under the door and check only to see if there are feet. We must stay there until we're sure all the people and guards have gone home. What about the night watchman? Jamie asked.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So we see Claudia's exquisite attention to detail.

[Sophie G.]

And she pulls it off.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And she pulls it off. Okay, now we're on the steps. We've left the inside, and we're on the very grand staircase in front.

[Sophie G.]

It's magnificent. It may be One of the most important and iconic views in all of New York City. But with the pretzels and the cabs and the street corner, it's so great. Didn't. That was wonderful, Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But I'm kind of glad to sit down because we definitely got our move 26 in. We were racing around, we covered some steps.

[Sophie G.]

And so in the book, Claudia says she thinks that the security guard's going to cover 20 acres of floor space before he comes back again. So you can really, you can get your exercise in going around the Met.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. I often, at the end of my visits, I'll often walk quickly for 10 minutes just to get like 10 minutes of rapid walking. And then I do sort of make a circuit, which I enjoy.

[Sophie G.]

Yeah, yeah. And I want to do a quick shout out for the audiobook version of the Mixed Up Files. It's one of the very best audiobooks I've ever heard, and it's absolutely perfect for put it in your ears, get moving and enjoy the Mix up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler. This has been so much fun, Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This has been so much fun.

[Sophie G.]

It totally, totally answered our expectations. And so on the Secret Life of Books, we always ask, is this book underrated or overrated? Gretchen, which is it?

[Gretchen Rubin]

I think it cannot be overrated. And so it's. It's justly considered a towering classic of children's literature, all literature, and I think it deserves it. What do you think?

[Sophie G.]

Now when I say that on the Secret Life of Books, Jonty jumps on me and says, you cannot hedge by saying it's justly rated. It has to be over or under. So I am going to say it's underrated. As much loved as it is, it should be loved even more. It's a great work of fiction, one of the classics, one of the true classics.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. So get your movement by running out to get the book from your library or your favorite bookstore. Or start walking while you're listening to the audiobook.

[Sophie G.]

You're gonna love it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And that's it for this special Move 26 episode. I hope you're feeling happier and I hope that you're feeling great from your 26 minutes of moving. I had such a great time talking to Sophie G. Listen to the Secret Life of Books, one of my favorite podcasts. Don't forget to join the annual challenge on the happier app where you can track your aim or you can try out our Move 26 bingo card, which is new this year. Remember, the best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago. The second best time is now, Sam.