Elizabeth (2:29)

Or like even, you know, make a doctor's appointment, answer an email.

Gretchen (2:33)

Yes, answer attacks.

Elizabeth (2:35)

All of those things which hang on your head but really only take a minute.

Adam (2:40)

Well, and that's exactly why I wanted to bring it up again, because I haven't been doing this in recent months. I've sort of Fallen out of the habit of it. And yet it's so powerful. Because the thing is, we feel very weighed down by those little tasks. They make us feel like we're surrounded by things that we have to do. And even if those things are very inconsequential and simple and easy, it just gives you that feeling of like, oh, my gosh, I've got so much to do, so much to do. Whereas if you just do it as you go, you know, it's not like you have to take any extra time because these are such small, brief tasks that they just get done as you go about your business. And I have to say, of all the things that I've suggested, this is the one that people most often mention

Jess (3:21)

to me is like, wow, I really

Adam (3:23)

saw benefit from this right away. This really boosted my happiness.

Elizabeth (3:27)

And why do you think that is?

Adam (3:29)

Part of it is that research shows that we overestimate what we can do in a short time. Like, oh, what can I do today? What can I do in a week? And we underestimate what we can do if we do a little consistently. And this is part of don't break the chain, or a lot of times the annual challenge is like, write two to four minutes. You might say, well, writing two to four minutes is so small. That's not one minute. But it's potentially two minutes, which is not that much more. But if you do it consistently, you can get a lot done without saying, okay, I have to block off two hours on my calendar, or I need to take an afternoon every weekend, which can feel, you know, for people who have busy lives, that can just feel like an insurmountable burden, doing something one minute at a time feels possible.

Sarah (4:15)

And I like this.

Elizabeth (4:15)

This is sort of Gretchen. It deals with the outer clutter of life. And the inner clutter.

Jess (4:20)

Yes.

Adam (4:20)

Outer order contributes to inner calm. Whether it's physical or mental. This is helpful. And, you know, I think this kind of reminds me about what we say about a demerit, where by saying a demerit out loud, a lot of times it helps us to do a better job because we've sort of gone through the motions articulating it. And I think that by saying this is a very valuable tread sister home, I'm hoping that that will remind me and kickstart me back, because I used to do this very, very faithfully, but I feel myself slipping, and that's just a less pleasant way to live.

Elizabeth (4:54)

Yeah, this is going to remind me to close those cabinet doors.

Chuck (4:59)

Yes.

Elizabeth (5:00)

I'll look at a cabinet door and go, eh, it's not really worth it.

Sarah (5:03)

But if I follow the one minute rule, I've got to close that door.

Gretchen (5:07)

See, I love doing that.

Chuck (5:08)

To me that is like the quickest, easiest way to give myself a little boost. But I know that's where we differ.

Elizabeth (5:14)

Just one more thing I want to mention is the one minute rule can also apply to all the self care

Sarah (5:19)

things that we talk about like putting

Elizabeth (5:21)

on moisturizer, flossing, brushing your teeth after lunch. Even though you're supposed to brush your teeth for two minutes, you could do it for one.

Sarah (5:29)

It's better than zero.

Elizabeth (5:31)

Putting on an eye mask. All those things that people feel like they want to do but they don't have time. Yes, a lot of them only take a minute.

Gretchen (5:39)

Yes, I know anything can be in

Chuck (5:41)

the one minute rule.

Gretchen (5:44)

Okay, I love talking about the one minute rule because once you start using it, you really do start seeing opportunities for it everywhere. And over time it's also led to a whole set of other simple time based rules for dealing with clutter in the moment.

Elizabeth (5:58)

So coming up, we'll hear about two of those. The Five Second Rule and Power Hour. Both can be even more useful than the one minute rule in certain situations. But first, this break.

Gretchen (6:17)

This episode is sponsored by Monarch. I feel like tax season is one of the times when I actually sit down and look at everything all at once. What I earned, what I spent, what I saved. It's always eye opening. In the past I'd kind of look at it and think, okay noted, but not necessarily do anything differently. Monarch really helps me see where my money is going and more importantly, where I want it to go.

Elizabeth (6:41)

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Gretchen (7:18)

is sponsored by David Protein. I have to say these have really worked their way into my daily routine. I I'm always trying to get enough protein, especially when I'm really busy and I keep a few David bars on hand when I'm kind of in that mid afternoon stretch when I need something quick but satisfying. And now David is available at Walmart stores nationwide and on Walmart.com where you can try a single bar for just $2.97.

Elizabeth (7:44)

Yes, and they are so enjoyable to eat. They're soft, a little doughy and they have these crunchy bits mixed in. Gretchen, I have been loving the chocolate chip cookie dough. I've also been eating the cinnamon roll. Delicious. I have been grabbing one when I run out the door or between errands. And the nice thing is it really keeps me full.

Gretchen (8:05)

Don't take our word for it. Go grab one for yourself. Head to Walmart today to try a bar or stock up on four counts of your favorite flavors like blueberry pie

Adam (8:13)

and salted peanut butter.

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Elizabeth (8:21)

I have been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately. Trying to focus more on quality over quantity. Fewer pieces, but ones that are well made and easy to wear every single day. Gretchen, you know what I'm going to say. I love quince for that Quince makes beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials. They have 100% European linen, organic cotton, super soft denim with styles starting around $50. And Gretchen, I love their accessories.

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Chuck (9:29)

So Elizabeth, a few weeks ago you gave yourself a demerit. This was a repeated demerit for your super messy closet. This is something that just comes up in your life. You have this super messy closet problem.

Gretchen (9:43)

And we got an interesting suggestion from a listener.

Sarah (9:46)

Yes, this came from Sarah.

Listener Sarah (9:48)

She says every time you walk in there, do something that takes almost no time at all. Like a spin off of the one minute rule, but more like the five second rule. Or if you like better, I can't

Sarah (10:01)

do everything, but I can do something.

Listener Sarah (10:04)

Pick up one hanger that fell to the floor. Put the scarf back on the hook. Pick up the price tag on the floor and put it in the trash. Turn that backwards hanger around. I think you'll be surprised how much progress you make with negligible amounts of effort put in when you're in your closet anyway. Well, this for whatever reason spoke to me, Gretch, I'm like the Five second rule, like the one minute rule. One minute is a long time if

Sarah (10:30)

you think about it.

Chuck (10:32)

But the one minute rule is that I write about in better than before that anything you can do in less than a minute, do without delay, like put your code on the hook or print out a letter and put it in a file. But you feel like one minute is too much, you need five seconds. This is working for you.

Sarah (10:48)

Yes.

Listener Sarah (10:49)

And a big thing for me is I'll have my shoes on the floor, but I have shoe shelves.

Sarah (10:54)

So it's like such a thing of

Listener Sarah (10:56)

getting my shoes off the floor and onto the shoe shelves makes a huge difference in the closet. And it does take less than five seconds to put a pair of shoes on the shelf. So that's where I'm starting is with when I'm in the closet, taking five seconds to put a pair of shoes away. And one thing I've noticed as I've started implementing this five second rule is if you do one thing often, you'll do two things. So five seconds might stretch to 10 or 15 seconds. But if I only feel that I need to do that one little thing like throw away the price tag, then I'll do it. And as Sarah said, it will add up and make a difference. If I'm in my closet a few times a day, that's several items that

Sarah (11:38)

are getting put where they need to be.

Chuck (11:40)

Okay, but here's my quest of real estate. And this is where I'm going to show my happiness. Bully side, My question to you is,

Gretchen (11:49)

why don't you just put the shoes

Chuck (11:50)

on the shoe rack when you take them off? Why are you picking the tag off the floor and putting it in the trash instead of just ripping it like you're just. You cut it off of a shirt, a new shirt, and you put it in the trash automatically. Like, to me, that is the place for that 5 second to happen is like, hang up the. I'm not saying that I do this all the time. For sure, I don't. But I'm just saying, like, you could just move the five seconds earlier in time and save yourself a whole death.

Sarah (12:17)

Gretch, I have no answer to that question. I have no idea why I don't just put the shoes on the shelf. I really don't. I think because I feel like I deserve to just leave them on the floor because I am tired.

Michelle (12:32)

Okay, but you know, you bring up a good point.

Sarah (12:35)

I should think about it.

Adam (12:37)

Well, do you think that is it

Chuck (12:38)

that the tasks are really going into two different Buckets. Like, one is like you doing your thing, which is taking off your shoes or taking the tag off of a shirt. And that's sort of your task. And you don't care. You fundamentally do not care, Elizabeth. You are clutterblind. You don't care. But then cleaning up your closet is really something you do for Adam. And so then this is like, I'm gonna do this for Adam. So maybe that's why it's being two steps instead of one step is because one is what do I wanna do? And one is like, what's being a considerate sweetheart.

Sarah (13:09)

Yeah, Gretch, I think you're onto something with that. But given that this is continued year after year, I think I should just focus on getting it cleaned up when it gets messy. I think it's a whole other level to not get to that point.

Gretchen (13:24)

This is why I wanted you to

Chuck (13:25)

get a closet door.

Sarah (13:28)

Yes, well, maybe someday.

Chuck (13:33)

Okay, well, that was a great suggestion, Sarah. Elizabeth has been trying to, like, crack this for years. You can go back to episode 10 where Elizabeth and I cleaned her messy closet. One of my all time favorite episodes. Anything that helps. So this is a new tool. The five second rule.

Adam (13:48)

Excellent.

Chuck (13:51)

Now, I came up with the idea of Power Hour because I wanted a way to have a habit of dealing with the non recurrent, diverse annoying tasks that just kept crowding onto my to do list, but that just never got done. You know, there was nothing urgent about them, they didn't have to get done. So week after week would go by and I would just never get them done. But how do you have a habit of doing something that really you only have to do once? You only have to fix the office chair one time. So I decided I was gonna set aside one hour because one hour seems manageable even to me. One hour once a week for power hour, when I would tackle as many items on that list as I could.

Michelle (14:30)

I think this is a great idea. It's something I could really use because I have. I mean, I have so many of those tasks that I don't even think of them as tasks. I just think of them as things that will never happen. Like, are the light bulb in our bathroom. I mean, it's been out probably two and a half years. I mean, I just wouldn't even occur to me to do it, you know? And I think think not only would a power hour be good for me, it'd be great to do with Adam. Like, it's like, we need a couple's power hour where we do things that, like, we need to do as a couple, like, clean the garage.

Sarah (15:09)

Well, I guess that's really more like

Michelle (15:10)

a power two days that would take. But again, it's something that will never happen if, you know, if we don't set aside time. But, yeah, this idea that this time is devoted just to these little tasks that build up and build up and build up. I think it's great. And I love the name Power Hour.

Chuck (15:30)

Well, and the fact is, is that something that can be done at any time is often done at no time, because you always think, well, I'll get around to it. But you never feel like getting around to it. And really, it's those tasks that you never start that exhaust you the most because they just build up and they drain you.

Jess (15:46)

And.

Chuck (15:47)

And every time you look in the bathroom and you see that light burned out, it sort of bums you out. But there's a plan for tackling it, so it just festers.

Elizabeth (15:54)

Yeah.

Michelle (15:54)

You know what this also reminds me of, Gretch, is Jane Espenson, who's a very talented TV writer here in la. She on Twitter, does these things called Writing Sprints, and she's. She started it a while back, and she'll just out of nowhere say, okay, writing sprint at the top of the hour. Do whatever project you want to do for an hour without interruption. It doesn't have to be writing. It could be knitting. It could be cleaning the kitchen. It could be editing. It could be anything. And it's like this focused time, and people really get excited about it and jump in and do it. And it's kind of started this Twitter phenomenon in Los Angeles, at least.

Adam (16:34)

Well, and then.

Jess (16:34)

And then the thing is, the idea

Chuck (16:35)

that you're doing, like, you're doing it, like, as a couple, or you're doing it with these other people. It's sort of. That could also give it more power. But I think one of the things about it also is that a lot

Jess (16:46)

of them actually don't take that long. That's part of what's gratifying when you start is a lot of these. I had one thing that took, like, 45 seconds that I had been waiting for, like, six months to do, because I just kept putting it off and putting it off.

Michelle (16:56)

What was it?

Jess (16:56)

Oh, it was some, you know, complex email related to. I don't even know what, but it was just, like, I just had to focus enough to, like, put it into words and look up the person's email.

Adam (17:08)

And then when it was done, I

Jess (17:09)

just felt this huge sense of Relief.

Chuck (17:11)

Or, you know, one thing is like making an album out of my digital photos. I mean, you know, if I just can let that go and let that go, and month after month after month goes by. But, you know, if every once in a while I do it, then also, first of all, I remember how to do it, which is kind of taxing for me. So it's easier and it's just not such a huge task if I do it periodically. But there's never a cue to do it. I have to decide to do it, and that's why it goes into Power Hour. Oh, but here's something I wanted to tell you that's cool about the name Power Hour. It's an example of what's called the fluency heuristic, which is that ideas that are easier to remember or say seem more valuable. Which is why Power Hour sounds like more fun than to do list time. Because to do list time just sounds boring. But Power Hour has kind of a nice ring to it.

Michelle (17:54)

Yeah, it sounds like you're taking charge and you're gonna just pummel that hour into submission.

Chuck (18:00)

Yes.

Gretchen (18:03)

Coming up, we've got one more hack, one that can change how your day ends up. It's a simple habit that helps you clear up your space and get things in order. So tomorrow feels much easier from the jump. But first, this break.

Elizabeth (18:24)

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Chuck (19:30)

So, Elizabeth, this week our try this at home tip is to end each stage of your day with a 10 minute closer.

Sarah (19:38)

That sounds good. What is it exactly?

Chuck (19:40)

I like the title. So this is an idea I write

Jess (19:43)

about in my book Outer Order, Inner

Adam (19:46)

Calm and The idea of the 10

Jess (19:48)

minute closer came to me because, you know, when you're with children, you are so careful to give them transition times, like we're told as parents and teachers and everything. Like, they need notice, they need to be kind, gently guided from one activity to another. They need transitions. You can't just abruptly expect them to go from one thing to another. They can't just like, go from active play into bed. They can't be like, busily crayoning something and then all of a sudden put their stuff away and go to lunch with no warning. And like many things having to do with raising children, I think that things that apply to children apply to adults just as much. And I think that we need transitions as adults.

Sarah (20:25)

Yeah, we all need transitions. It helps so that you're not just abruptly, you know, trying to put yourself in a totally different mindset.

Jess (20:33)

Yeah, I think that's very hard for people to do and certainly hard for me to do. I need a lot of transition time. And I think a great way to build in that transition that's very helpful and effective is to use a 10 minute closer, to spend 10 minutes kind of cleaning up, lightly cleaning up, what, Whatever stage you've been in as a way to kind of put an end to that part of your day and to say, and now I'm gonna move into the next part of my day. And then of course, the nice thing about using your 10 minute closer in that way is that when you come back to whatever that state is, if it's your desk or whatever, it's gonna be nicer because you have spent that time cleaning it up.

Sarah (21:11)

Yeah, that's a huge advantage. So what do you do, like, at the end of your workday, Gretch? Do you have a routine?

Jess (21:18)

Yes. And I've started doing this and I

Chuck (21:20)

have to say, it's really.

Adam (21:21)

It's like calming.

Jess (21:23)

It kind of gives you that feeling of like you've checked something off, like, okay, my done. And then in the morning, it's so much nicer because my desk in my office is so much cleaner. So what I do is, first of all, I glance over my calendar for the next day. And this has saved me many, many kind of panic attacks. I get rid of all the dirty dishes, I throw away trash. Like if I have a dried out pen or I have a food wrapper or something, I put loose change in my change envelope, which I carry around in my backpack. I put away pens and paper clips and binder clips and, you know, my stapler and all the Stuff that Jess gets scattered out over my day. I toss any paper. You know, I constantly am making notes to myself, and that can accumulate. And then I'm like, what is this? I have to look at it. So I stay on top of that. File things and anything I've used. Like, just recently, I had to consult Harry Potter in the Order of the Phoenix. So I had it up there, and I'm like, okay, well, I've done what I need to do. Now it's time to put Harry Potter back on the shelf.

Elizabeth (22:18)

That's great.

Sarah (22:19)

I. As you can imagine, I never do this. Yeah. And I should. Because, like, if I had Harry Potter out, it would probably be on my desk for the next three years until you came to clutter clear again.

Chuck (22:32)

That's why I love to come. Yes.

Sarah (22:34)

But I do think this would be a great mental exercise for me, both just putting this stuff away and mentally letting go of the workday. I mean, I think for me, it's hard to transition because I feel like I should always do more work. So it's like this ritual would, like, would be me accepting I'm done with

Michelle (22:56)

work, which would probably be a good thing.

Sarah (22:58)

Cause then I can more fully relax.

Chuck (23:01)

What's interesting, because Thoreau said, I love a broad margin to my life. And I feel like you do have. You're, like, rushing from one thing to the next thing. Like, you're. You are always, like, trying to, like, do one more thing right before you go to the door. And that's part of why you're so productive and effective. But it can kind of give you this feeling of being overwhelmed. And then, like, you can't find anything. And then, like, where is that? And then there's just a bunch of trash everywhere. And if you can take the 10 minutes and do it. I found that it really does put me in a calmer state of mind. And then I enter in more easily the next day. Cause, you know, I don't know if you have this thing where you walk into your office also. You share an office. So it's like you walk in and you're just hit by, oh, my gosh, this explosion of stuff that has to be used and sorted and understood. And it just. It can feel overwhelming just to step in across the threshold in the morning.

Sarah (23:50)

Yeah. And I mean, I'll also say that I think you talk about doing this before bed.

Chuck (23:55)

Yeah.

Sarah (23:56)

Yeah. For me would be an even bigger deal. So let's talk about doing it before bed.

Chuck (24:03)

Yeah. Well, what are the kind of things you can imagine Doing before bed. Like, if you were gonna make your. Because you don't naturally do this. This is true. This for you would take, like, a lot of deliberate. Like, you would have to make up your mind to do it.

Sarah (24:14)

Yeah, but I think I should. You know, putting stuff away again, it's the kind of the same things. It's like putting stuff away, get, you know, dirty dishes, trash. Also, like, I don't know if this counts. Like, doing, you know, skin care regime.

Chuck (24:30)

Yeah.

Sarah (24:31)

Or if that's another. If that's like a whole other.

Gretchen (24:36)

It could be whatever you want it to be.

Sarah (24:38)

But, yeah, going through the mail and getting rid of junk mail, putting the remote, you know, in its charger. I mean, putting shoes away would be a big one for me.

Chuck (24:50)

Shoes away, jackets, coats, stuff like that. And then just things that are very. Just cosmetic, but then I think calm you down. Like putting chairs back on. Like, you know, like, our kitchen table chairs are always out all over the place. Just putting those back closing drawers, cabinets, closets. That kind of. It just looks more orderly, and it doesn't take any time for us. Dog toys. Barnaby loves dog toys. And by the end of the day, there's like, 10 dog toys all over the place, and it just looks messy. And then if I put them away, it looks. It's. It's very disproportionate effect.

Sarah (25:20)

And then you be so nice to walk out in the morning and, oh, it's so nice and ready for the day. I mean, the funny thing, Gretch, for me is, you know, Adam and I, like, we have two things that we fight about over and over. One is our struggle over, like, being on time, wanting to be on time, him not caring. And the other one is me being messy. Messy.

Chuck (25:42)

It's funny. They're very symmetrical.

Sarah (25:44)

Yeah.

Chuck (25:45)

Yeah, I feel like they are.

Elizabeth (25:46)

Right. But.

Sarah (25:48)

But if I just did this every day, it would probably, like, improve my marriage, like, noticeably.

Michelle (25:56)

So I am really.

Sarah (25:57)

I want. I want to do this, and I want you to, like, check in with me.

Chuck (26:01)

I will.

Sarah (26:02)

In a month. And see if I'm, you know, if I'm following through and the impact it's having. Because I think if I would just do this every day, it would take care of so many of those things that annoy Adam.

Chuck (26:15)

But also, like, maybe to. Because you're always. You're the queen of reframing, is to think of it as, like, you're not doing it for him, even though you are doing it for him, but you're doing it for yourself because it's going to calm you. I mean, you have racing thoughts at night. It's going to help you sleep. It's a way to, like, create an environment that's going to. It's like a way for you to wind down. It's a kind of clutter clearing meditation. You know, like, it's something that you can enjoy. And I find it very relaxing. It's just like. And I don't do anything hard.

Jess (26:41)

I don't make any decisions.

Chuck (26:42)

It's just the grunt work. And so. And I do find that it makes it easier to move through the day because.

Gretchen (26:50)

And then you can look back and

Chuck (26:51)

you're like, oh, everything looks so nice. You know, it gives you that little feeling of, like, accomplishment that is very energizing.

Jess (26:57)

And it is true that for most

Chuck (26:59)

people, outer order contributes to inner calm. It just does. And if you can find those little ways of creating outer order without having

Jess (27:05)

to feel like you need to take off the whole weekend and clean out

Chuck (27:08)

the garage, it just gives you that little boost.

Sarah (27:11)

Yeah. And I could see that if I do this nightly, it would start triggering, like, sleep feelings.

Gretchen (27:21)

We hope this episode made you happier. Remember, what we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while. And that is especially true when it comes to, to dealing with clutter. If you want to go deeper on any of these strategies or explore more of our favorite clutter clearing ideas, you can find it all@happiercast.com organization. Thank you, Elizabeth. And thank you to our producer, Chuck. The best time to start a happiness project was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

Craig Robinson (28:04)

Hi, Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here we host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you.

Michelle Obama (28:18)

You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?

Gretchen (28:30)

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends. You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier.

Chuck (29:20)

With greater self knowledge, we're better able

Gretchen (29:22)

to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values.

Adam (29:28)

In my own case, I have found

Chuck (29:29)

that the more my life reflects my

Gretchen (29:31)

nature, the happier I get and the

Chuck (29:33)

more grounded I feel when I'm going

Gretchen (29:35)

through a period of major change or transition. For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Wherever you get podcasts, you can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Keke Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents and so many more.