68: You Should NEVER Do This On A First Date (feat. Catherine McCafferty)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Happy Wife Happy Life" - Episode 68: You Should NEVER Do This On A First Date (feat. Catherine McCafferty)

Release Date: June 16, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 68 of Happy Wife Happy Life, hosts Kendall Landriff and Jordan Myrick delve into the often nerve-wracking realm of first dates. Joined by special guest Catherine McCafferty, the trio shares personal anecdotes, humorous mishaps, and valuable insights on what behaviors to avoid to ensure a successful first impression. The episode is a blend of comedic banter and genuine advice, making it both entertaining and informative for listeners navigating the dating scene.

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Meet the Guest: Catherine McCafferty [01:01]

Kendall Landriff:
"And I'm Jordan Myrick."

Katherine McCafferty:
"And we are two incredibly unqualified but deeply in love comedians who are here to help you with all things relationship."

The episode kicks off with introductions, highlighting Catherine McCafferty's background and her unique perspective on dating, especially within the queer community. Catherine brings her experience from her show, where she goes on mock dates with queer comedians and content creators, adding depth to the conversation.

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Avoiding Common First Date Pitfalls

The hosts and Catherine explore various "don'ts" on first dates, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and setting boundaries.

1. Insisting on Paying the Bill [09:21]

   Jordan Myrick:
   "I'm like, ew, yeah, don't remind me that you've ever been on a date ever other than this one."

   Zoe Saldana: (Interjecting humorously)
   "It's not like you've ever been on a date."

   Takeaway:
   While generosity is appreciated, taking control of the bill can set an uncomfortable power dynamic. It's essential to find a balance that respects both parties.

2. Showing Up Late [10:03]

   Zoe Saldana:
   "I'm always late. I'm always late and that's fine."

   Takeaway:
   Punctuality shows respect and consideration. Consistently being late can signal disinterest or lack of commitment.

3. Bringing Excessive or Inappropriate Gifts [12:02]

   Jordan Myrick:
   "They bring you flowers. Too late? Don’t do that."

   Zoe Saldana:
   "I don't find [flowers] romantic."

   Takeaway:
   While small, thoughtful tokens are welcome, extravagant or inappropriate gifts can create undue pressure and expectations on a first date.

4. Over-Sharing Personal Details [56:27]

   Jordan Myrick:
   "So I think the big takeaway from this episode is you're gonna have to just be you on your first date."

   Takeaway:
   First dates should focus on getting to know each other naturally. Over-sharing can be overwhelming and may hinder the development of mutual interest.

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Notable Quotes

• Katherine on Misreading Signals [14:46]:
  "I was just like, what does this mean?"

• Zoe on Navigating Flirtatious Interactions [06:10]:
  "We are sort of like the episodes that go the best are people who are like, okay, wait, this does sort of feel like a date..."

• Jordan on Authenticity [57:57]:
  "Cause even with the people who are intense, like that person you're talking about, it's like, they."

These quotes highlight the challenges of interpreting intentions and maintaining authenticity during initial meetings.

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Personal Anecdotes and Humorous Mishaps

The episode is peppered with personal stories that illustrate the do's and don'ts of first dating:

• Zoe's Awkward Flower Incident [14:03]:
  During a date, Zoe received a flower from her date, leading to an unexpected and confusing make-out session.
  Zoe Saldana:
  "We ended up making out because it wasn't like... you have to ask. You can't just like, attack somebody."

• Catherine's Virginity Story [22:42]:
  Catherine recounts her experience losing her virginity, highlighting the importance of communication and consent.
  Katherine McCafferty:
  "I came and I said, I'll take the lead."

• Jordan's Fear of STDs [20:46]:
  Jordan shares a personal fear of contracting an STD during a hookup, emphasizing the need for safe practices and open conversations about health.
  Jordan Myrick:
  "And everyone should get tested. Anyone can get anything from anyone."

These stories add a relatable and humorous layer to the discussion, making the advice more impactful.

---

Strategies for Successful First Dates

The hosts provide actionable advice for listeners to enhance their first date experiences:

1. Confidence and Authenticity:
   Confidence can make a significant difference. Being genuine helps in building a meaningful connection.
   Jordan Myrick:
   "Confidence is just fake it till you make it."

2. Appropriate First Date Activities:
   Opting for simple and comfortable settings like coffee shops or casual bars allows for easy conversation and minimizes pressure.
   Zoe Saldana:
   "Go to a different bar first. And then be like, hey, there's actually jazz music playing. Like, I would love to just swing by."

3. Setting Clear Boundaries:
   Establishing boundaries early on helps in maintaining respect and understanding between both parties.
   Zoe Saldana:
   "I'm a rules girl. So if you tell me what the rules are, I abide by those rules."

4. Avoiding Overcommitment:
   Taking things one step at a time prevents overwhelming either party and allows the relationship to develop naturally.
   Katherine McCafferty:
   "I'm joking a little, but I think it's a very true thing to say."

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Conclusion and Takeaways

Episode 68 of Happy Wife Happy Life offers a blend of humor, personal stories, and practical advice on navigating first dates. The key takeaways include:

• Be Yourself: Authenticity fosters genuine connections.
• Respect Boundaries: Understanding and maintaining personal boundaries is crucial.
• Choose Suitable Settings: Opt for comfortable and low-pressure environments.
• Communicate Clearly: Open and honest communication prevents misunderstandings.
• Learn from Mistakes: Personal anecdotes highlight the importance of adapting and growing from past experiences.

The episode underscores that while first dates can be daunting, approaching them with confidence, clarity, and a sense of humor can significantly enhance the experience.

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Additional Resources

For more insights and personalized advice, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to Happy Wife Happy Life on their preferred platforms and follow the hosts' social media channels. Special guest Catherine McCafferty can be found online at @Catherine_McKenzie and her live shows are scheduled across various cities.

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Quote Highlights with Timestamps

• [09:21] Jordan Myrick:
  "I'm like, ew, yeah, don't remind me that you've ever been on a date ever other than this one."

• [14:03] Zoe Saldana:
  "We ended up making out because it wasn't like... you have to ask. You can't just like, attack somebody."

• [20:46] Jordan Myrick:
  "And everyone should get tested. Anyone can get anything from anyone."

• [57:57] Jordan Myrick:
  "Cause even with the people who are intense, like that person you're talking about, it's like, they."

---

Final Thoughts

Episode 68 is a must-listen for anyone seeking to improve their dating experiences. With candid conversations and expert advice, Kendall, Jordan, and Catherine provide listeners with the tools to navigate first dates with confidence and ease. Whether you're new to dating or looking to refine your approach, this episode offers valuable perspectives that can lead to more meaningful and enjoyable connections.

Transcript

[Zoe Saldana]

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[Kendall Landriff]

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[Zoe Saldana]

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[Kendall Landriff]

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[Zoe Saldana]

I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender. I'm good.

[Jordan Myrick]

Seriously.

[Zoe Saldana]

Let me check this pocket.

[Jordan Myrick]

Oh, mints.

[Zoe Saldana]

Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your Phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.

[Jordan Myrick]

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[Zoe Saldana]

Plus tax and $10 connection charge.

[Jordan Myrick]

Pay off via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel mobile.com. welcome to Happy Wife, Happy Life.

[Katherine McCafferty]

We're your hosts. I'm Kendall Landriff.

[Jordan Myrick]

And I'm Jordan Myrick.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And we are two incredibly unqualified but.

[Jordan Myrick]

Deeply in love comedians who are here to help you with all things relationship. And on today's episode, we're talking first dates with Katherine McCafferty.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yay.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Hi, Katherine.

[Jordan Myrick]

Hi.

[Zoe Saldana]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super jazzed to be here.

[Jordan Myrick]

We love you. We love your show. Pretty gay. For anyone tuning in that's not already watching your show. I think most of our listeners are because they've all asked for you to come on this podcast. But for those who maybe don't know, will you just give us a little snippet of what your show is?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, absolutely. So I go on mock dates with queer comedians or, like, content creators. People hate to be called that.

[Jordan Myrick]

Sure.

[Zoe Saldana]

But I don't know what to call people if they're not comedians, because not everybody is.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Right. Well, it's funny.

[Zoe Saldana]

Some people are actually actors.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Some people are, like, what? I decided to move to Hollywood to be, like, legitimately legitimate serious actors around the show.

[Katherine McCafferty]

It's funny because it's like it went from like, oh, you can't say influencer. They were like, don't say influencer. Say content creator. And now they're like, don't say content creator.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And now they just want to say.

[Zoe Saldana]

Comedian, which I'm like, but no, not everybody is.

[Jordan Myrick]

You guys are.

[Zoe Saldana]

And then I have a whole list of people who aren't.

[Jordan Myrick]

Don't set yourself up for failure like that. Don't look like I'm a comedian if you, in fact, are not a comedian. And really like anything else. The only thing being a comedian takes is practice and, like, actually working on the thing. There's really almost no barrier to entry. So it's not like an elitist thing of being like, oh, well, this person's a comedian and this person is not, or whatever. It's just like, sometimes people will be like, well, I'm a comedian. And then they don't do comedy. They don't do comedy. And they do try to do a little comedy with them on a comedy podcast. And they're like, you're being a bitch. You're like, what?

[Zoe Saldana]

Like this. Okay, this was supposed to be funny. And now I feel like a bully.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

But okay, so what's my show? I go on? I go on, like, mock dates with. With queer comedians or act or just, like, people who are in the. Who have moved to Hollywood to do something.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

You know, even if you're a chef, I want you on the show. Truly. I've been trying to date Kristen, which is from Top Chef, for so long.

[Jordan Myrick]

I know.

[Katherine McCafferty]

So have we. Not for the show.

[Jordan Myrick]

Just keep dming her.

[Zoe Saldana]

Right?

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

We play, like, fun, like, little improv games, and they're like 30 to 60 minute episodes, and they're only on Patreon, so that's how you could watch me date a bunch of people.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Such a fun show.

[Jordan Myrick]

So fun. We've both been on the show. It's also made by Sam Reich, who owns Dropout, who is a friend and has been on this podcast with his wonderful wife Elaine, who also works on the show. They do such a great job. It's so wonderful. You should all go subscribe to the Patreon right now.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Can I ask.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Do you love first dates? Is that what made you start the show?

[Zoe Saldana]

So, no, I wouldn't say that I love first dates, but I don't understand the context of a first date. And like, this has. It gives you, like, something to talk about because we're playing these, like, little improv games, and we're really like, writing the show, people will be like, you write the jokes. And it's like, yeah, the jokes are written. But. But also, I haven't been on or. When we created the show, at least I was getting out of an engagement. And so. And that was my first queer relationship, so I hadn't been on a lot of dates. And I truly was like, information mining. I was like. I was like, I'm going to invite these hot people on my show, and I'm going to be like, and how do you date?

[Katherine McCafferty]

I love that.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Who's been, like, the guest? And no pressure to say yes, but who's been the guest that you're like, this is how we do a first date.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. And let's take. Let's take us off the table. Just.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay.

[Jordan Myrick]

You know, because I know immediately you were like Jordan and Kendall.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

But I don't want to hurt the other guest feelings like that. So let's take us off the table.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, you guys, off the table. I'm trying to think. Okay. I had er Fightmaster, and we've had er as well. Charming. And they are like, they just know exactly how to, like, play with you, make you blush, but then also, like, make it not too much. Like, I. I had. I'll say I had Grant o' Brien on the. On the podcast, which Stick a finger right up you.

[Jordan Myrick]

Metaphorically or physically? We love him. We've got him on this podcast, but he's a very forward man.

[Zoe Saldana]

Very forward. And he's the only man that we've ever had on the. Because technique. Well, this is mean, because I almost was like, technically, I'm bisexual, but I. And I never know how I identify. But we were like, what if we had a bi guy on the show? And obviously, Grant is part of the dropout universe and he's very sex. And after we shot his episode, Sam took me aside and was like, hey, so that was great. Just if a guest is really, like, going for it, play with them as opposed to physically backing away from them. Sure. And I was like, what do you mean? He was like, anything that Grant said you were physically trying to get away from him.

[Katherine McCafferty]

That is. He was like. It was a very upset. You seemed very scared. That is so funny. Well, I was gonna say after I recorded with you. Yeah, I think I said to you. I was like. I was more nervous than I thought because something that's so special about your show, it, like, really does feel like a first date.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Like, it really does. Like, when I sat down, I was like, okay, you're gonna do it, interview, whatever. And then I was like, wait, I'm so nervous.

[Zoe Saldana]

We are sort of like, the episodes that go the best are people who are like, okay, wait, this does sort of feel like a date where it's like, there is a flirtatious nature to it. Now, I will say a lot of the guests are, like, married or in, like, long term relationships, and. But they also know how to, like, play with you.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Sometimes that makes someone more flirty because they're like, you can't take me home.

[Jordan Myrick]

So let's just have some fun.

[Zoe Saldana]

100%. It is very fun. And I do get, like, moves, because I'll be like, oh, you do that. Okay, maybe I'll try to do that.

[Jordan Myrick]

I love that. I do think what you said is really smart, Kendall, is that you're kind of like, I can't take you home. So I'm going to lean into it even more. I was just saying this the other day, but I feel like someone was like, oh, do you feel like you get flirted with a lot? And I was like, I think the people that flirt with me the most are straight men not actually trying to have sex with me, but I think they just know, like, I'm not attracted to them.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yes.

[Jordan Myrick]

And so they are able to be as free as possible. And I think a lot of straight men are so locked up, both with, like, women, but also, like, with their male friends, with themselves, with whatever. So I'm like, oh, when you meet, like, a gender nonconforming lesbian who's, like, married and, like, very happy, and you can just kind of, like, be like, your fun, flirty, cute self.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes.

[Jordan Myrick]

I find that straight men like to do that with me a lot, which is very interesting to me.

[Zoe Saldana]

That is very funny. But, yeah, I do think that on the show, like, people who are taken are more like, yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna try to pick you up physically. I'm physically gonna put you on my body.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Also, because they're not allowed. This is. You've given them the one chance to be like, I'm allowed to go on. I haven't. I haven't flirted in 15 years. Let me get it all out now.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. You've made yourself everyone's hall pass.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah, basically.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, my God. Okay. And that's pretty fun.

[Jordan Myrick]

Now you go on so many first dates.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

We have made a list of things in a game that we're calling second date or it's too late.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh.

[Jordan Myrick]

Meaning second date. You like it or you don't mind it when people do it, you'd go on a second date, it's too late. Meaning by the time that they do this thing, you're done, you're out.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, God.

[Jordan Myrick]

You cannot continue going on. You are fully unattracted.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay? I'm not gonna lie. I have gone on, like, eight hour long first dates, okay. That anyone else would have ended. But I'm like, let's keep seeing where this is gonna go because maybe they'll redeem themselves. So I'm big into giving a lot of chances.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I'm the same way. And I do what I On, like, I do on a date sometimes. What I do when I'm reading a book where, you know when you're like, reading a book and the character, they explain their outfit and it's the ugliest thing you've ever heard, and then you're like, I'm actually just gonna wipe that from my brain. I used to do that a lot on dates where someone would say a joke that was just so cringey, or.

[Zoe Saldana]

You'Re like, and that's gone.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And it's gone. Goodbye. Never heard it didn't happen. And that's how we end up to be dating.

[Jordan Myrick]

Kendall and I have not listened to each other for the last five years, and we are so blissfully happy.

[Zoe Saldana]

So cute. And that started the secret. Yeah, exactly. Right?

[Jordan Myrick]

That's the book the secret is about. Okay. They insist on paying.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, I. I'll. I'll go on a second date.

[Jordan Myrick]

What?

[Zoe Saldana]

What were my two options?

[Jordan Myrick]

Second date or it's too late.

[Zoe Saldana]

Second date. I. I need to know how they're insisting. Well, because, like, some people do it in such a way where I'm like, now I feel like you've peed on me. Does that make sense?

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes. 100. But I want you to give the audience examples of like, okay, what's like, okay, you and I are at dinner. Haha. Oh, my God, the check just came.

[Zoe Saldana]

And then like, I'm pulling out my wallet, and then if the other person is like, no, no, I've got it. Then I'm like, okay, great. Or if they're like, I insist. Still totally fine. But if I'm like, putting down my card and they're like, absolutely not, I always pay.

[Jordan Myrick]

I'm like, ew, yeah, don't remind me that you've ever been on a date ever other than this one.

[Zoe Saldana]

Well, if you're. If you're like, I'm always like, then that, that, that you're like, asserting yourself in, like, a dominant way where I'm like, okay, you have now set a power dynamic. So I don't want you to set like that feels icky to me.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, I love that. I agree with that.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay. Ten minutes past the time you were supposed to meet is when they show up.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's fine. I'm sorry. I'm always late. I'm always late and that's fine. And I'm not. I'm the person who's. I'm the person who's 10 minutes late. I have once been text. Oh, I always tell the person and I try to tell them at least like an hour beforehand. I don't know where they're coming from, but I'll let them know, like, hey, I'm very sorry. I'm probably gonna be late. I know that this is an hour ahead of time. I don't know how late, but let's just say 10 minutes. And then like once I actually have an ETA, I'll tell them what it is. Yeah, it has. I have unfortunately been like 20 minutes late to a date.

[Jordan Myrick]

Why are you late like that? Why are you able to be like in one hour? I will be some level of late.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. So. So I don't understand how long things take.

[Jordan Myrick]

Got it.

[Zoe Saldana]

Number one. And I'm constantly thinking that it only takes me 20 minutes to get ready.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

So I will say that I've always over scheduled myself. So I'm doing something. I'll be like, well, I can just like, I can just edit this really quickly. I can edit this clip. It's no big deal. And then I'm editing and I'm like, okay, well I have to jump in the shower in like five minutes because I have to be there in 15 minutes. That's not how that works.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Okay, you know what? Jordan always does that with movies. Specifically, you're not late to anything. But all the time. Even today Jordan was like, well, after recording and I have something at like 5, why don't we go see a movie? I was like, going to see a movie. And you do this all the time. Going to see a movie takes like eight hours. What do you mean?

[Zoe Saldana]

It is somewhere in between eight hours and two hours.

[Jordan Myrick]

It's so long.

[Katherine McCafferty]

But it's. And you always try to just cram in. We'll just head over and see a movie.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, well, I have AMCA list, so.

[Zoe Saldana]

You are close to the movie theater, so I do understand the impulse. However, it does take longer than two hours. You always think it's going to take two hours, but it takes longer.

[Katherine McCafferty]

It Takes a really long.

[Jordan Myrick]

And that's true. And I'm working on it. I'm always working on this.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You have to do trailers. There's like, an hour of trailers and everything.

[Zoe Saldana]

An hour of trailers.

[Katherine McCafferty]

There's. Now. There is.

[Zoe Saldana]

There are.

[Katherine McCafferty]

That's not a joke.

[Zoe Saldana]

There are a lot of trailers.

[Katherine McCafferty]

There's a lot of trailers.

[Jordan Myrick]

Time blindness, but I have that, too.

[Zoe Saldana]

But I'll say that I'm always on time for things like a podcast or maybe it's because dates. Like, also, I get nervous. Like, I get way more nervous about a date than, like, a show or a podcast or like, a meeting. You know, I'm on time for those things.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

All right. That makes sense to me. They bring you flowers.

[Zoe Saldana]

No.

[Jordan Myrick]

Second date. Or it's too late.

[Zoe Saldana]

Too late?

[Jordan Myrick]

Really?

[Zoe Saldana]

Don't do that.

[Jordan Myrick]

You show up, flowers.

[Zoe Saldana]

You don't know me at all.

[Jordan Myrick]

They're so hot.

[Zoe Saldana]

No. Okay, I guess we can kiss.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Wait, what do you mean?

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay?

[Zoe Saldana]

I immediately want to be like. I want to not have the wrong reaction to the flowers, so I think I would just kiss them.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay. Why no to the flowers, though?

[Zoe Saldana]

I don't. Well, first of all, flowers are really bad for the environment.

[Jordan Myrick]

Sure.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You don't like flowers in general?

[Zoe Saldana]

No, it's. And they usually give me a headache, so I, like, almost instantly get a headache, depending on what the. I can do roses and I can do, like, sunflowers. Those don't give me a headache. But, yeah, I don't find it romantic. I'm so. I. I'm a little bit of a Debbie Downer in that way, where I'm only thinking about, like, how much water it took to transport these freshly cut flowers to wherever you bought them.

[Jordan Myrick]

What if they picked the flowers themselves?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, like, from their. From their garden. Okay. So that's, like, fun. That's romantic. It's. It's not me. So, like, once they get to know me, they'll probably never do that again. But I'm not, like, instantly upset. Okay.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You don't feel like. It's too, like. Okay. You're, like, trying to commit to me with these flowers? It's too much.

[Jordan Myrick]

No.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, yeah. No. I guess that wasn't my reaction. It was just like, I simply don't like flowers.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Got it. Okay, great.

[Jordan Myrick]

I understand that.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

This one, I was on this date with this person, and they were being very nice and trying to be really cute. The date, in my opinion, like, we were just missing each other. But I was going to give them a ride home because they Needed one. And. And so we were walking to my car and they stopped and they picked a flower from somebody else's garden and gave it to me. And the amount of rage that I had in my body was. That was really tough.

[Jordan Myrick]

That's true.

[Zoe Saldana]

And my. And I will say that my reaction was to kiss them because I was so angry.

[Jordan Myrick]

So.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Okay. There's a lot there on the same page as you, but that's scary.

[Zoe Saldana]

Well, I was just like. I didn't know what to do because I was like, I'm having such a big reaction to how awfully upset I am about this. So I'm just. Put my face on your face.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Quick kiss or make out.

[Zoe Saldana]

We ended up making out because it was. It wasn't like. It wasn't like, you know, like, you have to ask. You can't just like, attack somebody, in my opinion. So it was like, flower. And then I was like, we should kiss. Question. Sort of question mark after that. And. And then they were like, oh, my God. And then it was like a make out that I tried to stop because that's so weird. I know. I said I was sending all the mixed signals.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I would have been so confused.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Do you. If you like someone on a date, are you gonna go in for a kiss?

[Zoe Saldana]

That's. I usually don't initiate if I like somebody.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Okay.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay.

[Katherine McCafferty]

So if someone's on a date with you and you kiss them, bad, bad news, it's not going good.

[Zoe Saldana]

I'm more timid. Like, I'm a little bit more scared.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Okay. Yeah, you seem scared in both scenarios, but you get more scared. You react with your fear in a different way.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, I react with. Yeah. Apparently I'm learning something in real time too, about how I'm problematic.

[Jordan Myrick]

And that's why we brought you here. So it is. It's confusing to. Because, listen, all, like, consent is very important, and we all know that. But if you were to be like, they picked me a flower, handed it to me, and then I, like, just leaned in to kiss them because I got so caught off guard and didn't know what to do, I would be like, okay, still seems wild to me. But it's just like an impulse. Okay. For them to pick a flower and then for you to look at them and say, we should make out. Should we kiss?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

And then do it feels really bizarre.

[Katherine McCafferty]

No judgment and.

[Zoe Saldana]

No, it is bizarre from like a.

[Jordan Myrick]

Scientific standpoint, not like a moral standard.

[Zoe Saldana]

So if I'm going back in my head, it was like it was me sort of doing, like, a this and then going, we should kiss. You know, question mark.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

But you're so close to their face. Because I don't know how. Because I actually. I don't know how to date.

[Katherine McCafferty]

No.

[Zoe Saldana]

Which is why I have this show.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Are you fascinated? Because I. That is because I will. I will say I've been on a couple. Well, really, there's one. There's one date I went on years and years and years ago. And I remember being like. And I think I. Well, usually I'm always operating from. This person hates me, and you have to really convince me otherwise.

[Zoe Saldana]

So I was.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I know I was convinced. They, like, I was like, I'm killing this.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Very confusing for me. I am killing this. They are like, let's make out. We make out for, like, an hour at a bar. And I was like, oh, my God. Yeah, we make up for like, an hour. And then I was like. They were like, I live across the street. And I was like, oh, great, let's go across the street.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And then they were like, no. And then they were like, let me call this Uber. And they called me an Uber. And I was, like, kind of drunk at this point. And they were also kind of not drunk, but we were both. We'd had a couple drinks, and then they were like, okay, get in the Uber. And I remember being like, did I, like, do something? Like, what did I do? Like, what did I do? I misread. I've never felt like I misread so much. And then. But they still follow me on social media. I assume that was the thing with dating sites is, like, sometimes you're like, wait, I don't understand. It's like they got back with their ex, who. That's why they were on a dating app. But I remember looking back at that night and being like, was I just misreading every single moment?

[Zoe Saldana]

No, I think by inviting you over, I think there was probably another girl.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Like, at her house.

[Zoe Saldana]

Not at her house or her wife.

[Jordan Myrick]

She'd never had sex with a woman before. I think that also, I could see that happening. Someone being like, let's bone. And then all of a sudden being like, oh, I need to go home and watch a video. I've never done that. Which you don't need to do. You'll figure it out.

[Zoe Saldana]

But you will figure it out.

[Jordan Myrick]

I did see myself, a younger version of myself, just becoming panicked.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. I panicked when I went over to my first, like. Like, the first person that I had ever had, like, a queer relationship with. We met. We. We were, like, making out. They were like, do you want to come back to my place? I was like, yeah. And then in my head, I'm freaking out. Also, my contacts are so dry at this point. And so we are kissing even more. We're now in, like, their bed. And I was like, hey, so my contacts are really dry. I have to go. And they were like, oh, okay. And then they said something that is, like, the most confident thing that made me go like, you're so hot. We should definitely get engaged. They were like, so, I guess find my number.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay.

[Zoe Saldana]

And I did.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And you did.

[Zoe Saldana]

And I did. I said checkmate, because I think they were like, oh, she's never been with a girl or a person who has my anatomy, so she's freaking out right now.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Wow. The even think that, because I would have immediately assumed I've made them deeply upset by something I did.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I was trying to be like. I was trying to be like, I. I really liked this. Like, I was really trying to not just totally freak out.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes.

[Zoe Saldana]

But I was very much like, my contacts are dry.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes. I had a. I would say a similar situation where I had, like, hooked up with women before, but in college, it was kind of. I had always hooked up with people kind of, like, in passing. I think a lot of people, too, were like. I was like, I'm bisexual. And they were like, well, I'm straight, Or whatever. And then they would be. And they would be like, but you and I should kiss. And I'd be like, I'm confused.

[Zoe Saldana]

That is confusing.

[Jordan Myrick]

Someone that I went to college with, at a birthday party I had was like, like, come into this room with me. We're gonna hook up. And we, like, started to hook up. And I became paralyzed with fear. Despite, once again, like, I had been.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

With people before I. But for some reason, I was just, like, so scared. And then I was like, what if she has an std? I haven't asked her if she's been tested. I haven't asked her if she's been tested, which is like, everyone should get tested.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes.

[Jordan Myrick]

And everyone should be really safe.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

I will say.

[Zoe Saldana]

It'S. It's gonna be a lot harder for you to contract something from somebody vagina.

[Jordan Myrick]

A little different.

[Zoe Saldana]

It's a little different.

[Jordan Myrick]

And once again, everyone should get tested. Anyone can get anything from anyone. But it's clear in that moment, I don't think I was.

[Katherine McCafferty]

That wasn't what you were.

[Jordan Myrick]

I had, like. I had hooked up with guys that I had like, met on the subway.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like, I wasn't like, absolutely.

[Jordan Myrick]

It wasn't worried about that specifically. It was just, like, I became so paralyzed in my brain, and I was like, it's std. I was like, she probably has an st. And then I'm gonna get it, and I'm gonna spread it to other people and, like, not even realize it. And then we're just gonna, like, all have an std. Like, just really got crazy. But then I went home with my roommate, and my roommate was like, you should've just done it. And she was a very fun, straight girl who was always encouraging me, which was so nice. Thank you, Esther. I regretted it. And after the fact, like, texted, I was like, hey, sorry, I had to go home. I was just, like, feeling crazy, but I would, like, love to maybe hang out and kind of stir things up again. Some kind of, like, really bizarre message, trying to be sexy, and I never.

[Zoe Saldana]

Heard back from her.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And then I would just see her around and be like, yeah, but you know what? Either way is embarrassing, because I will say one moment that I look back on to this day and feel embarrassment about is when I lost my virginity. I don't know why. I had, first of all, never kissed anyone else.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Never fooled around with any guy, ever. I'd never done anything. And I also was very unaware of sexual things in general. Like, I had never seen porn. I had never. I'd read things on Tumblr.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

About Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone when they were together. And I read and those. So I.

[Jordan Myrick]

So funny. Because, like, what. What did you read about them being together?

[Katherine McCafferty]

No. Fan fiction, Jordan.

[Zoe Saldana]

I also didn't get that.

[Jordan Myrick]

I read news articles in Jack. TMZ has been, like, they were spotted together at El Pisino at a time.

[Zoe Saldana]

I thought you were sort of, like, studying pictures of them kissing.

[Jordan Myrick]

No. No.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I knew that you were reading Obsess. I was reading fan fiction. Like, I was all in it. I still, like, didn't really understand how to masturbate. Like, I didn't know. I remember seeing in a movie, like, at 18, some, like, a girl masturbating, being like, I guess I've not been doing that. I've been doing something else. So that's the level of knowledge I'm coming in with. I remember when I lost my virginity. I don't know why. More confident than I've ever been.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I came and I said, I'll take the lead.

[Zoe Saldana]

And I agree.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I don't. I told her I was like, I'm a virgin. And she was like, oh, yeah, no, I can. I can tell you a virgin. And I would be. She'd be like, well, let me go first. I can show you. And I was like, no, no, no.

[Zoe Saldana]

No, I'll go first.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. I kind of putting on a cowboy hat.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I was making stuff up. I remember because I bragged about this to my roommates after, which is crazy. I wore long argyle socks the whole time. And not sexy ones. Like, these were from TJ Maxx from when I was in high school.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's hard to be.

[Jordan Myrick]

Sad.

[Zoe Saldana]

Sexy.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I was like, no, let me do everything first. Like, I kind of get how this works. And it just. Like, the things that I was trying out were just not things people do when you have sex. Like, they just were absolutely not. And she. We dated for a little bit. It couldn't have been that bad. Really pretty.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

But I remember later her being like, yeah, I told my friends after we had sex for the first time, I was like, super weird. She had no idea. But she just kept kind of poking things. I mean, like, how do you like that?

[Jordan Myrick]

That's kind of nice, though, right? Kind of free.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Very.

[Jordan Myrick]

And I think it's very endear. You're extremely endearing in general. So much. So much charm. So I think that. That, you know, that added to it. I think that added to it.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay. Someone texts you an hour before the date to say they're excited about the date. That is in one hour.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, absolutely. That's cute.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay, great. They bring you a gift.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, my God. What's the gift? Okay, wait. Okay.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Because on your show, you have people bring you a gift.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, yeah. I've brought people a gift on a first date. But I've known the person in the sense where I was like, this isn't gonna be weird. Does that make sense? Like, not a total stranger. And also, I sort of knew, like, some people, they bring little gifts.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay, so some people are little gift people. Yeah, definitely. But I want to know. Let's say you're going on a date with someone, you don't really know them. You match on an app. You don't really know them, or it's a blind date someone else set up.

[Zoe Saldana]

If they give me a gift, that's fine.

[Jordan Myrick]

What's an appropriate gift? What's an inappropriate gift, barring, like, the obvious? But what's something where you would be, like, like, wild? And what's something you'd be like, okay.

[Zoe Saldana]

Something that I know, like, costs a lot of money, would be like, stop doing that. What is that?

[Jordan Myrick]

Coach bag?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. I'm like, what have we done here?

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay.

[Zoe Saldana]

Because now I feel, like, obligated to pay you back in some way.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

With my body.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anal on the first day.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, exactly. I'm just spreading cheeks.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

But I think, like, sometimes I have brought, like, a tiny gift that I put in my fanny pack where I'm like, I thought of them. I thought they might like this. It's like a little trotchke. It's like a little clip. It's like something like that.

[Katherine McCafferty]

But you can also give it to a friend.

[Zoe Saldana]

Where I could give it to a friend, or I could give it to this date if I'm feeling, like, nervous. So I feel like if they brought me a little tchotchke, I would be like, I recognize that. Like, I recognize that as something that I would do.

[Katherine McCafferty]

One time I brought stamps on a first date because it was when we were supposed to be buying stamps. Is that cool?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Okay. I said for usps.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

They were not interested, but I don't know if that's because it's stamps, so.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Stamps would be fun, because that's quirky. And then I know about your personality. I know that you, like, keep up on the news and you support the usps.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I know that somebody's shaking your head.

[Zoe Saldana]

I know somebody.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You keep up with the news.

[Jordan Myrick]

That'd be the number one thing I would say about you, is that you keep up with the news.

[Zoe Saldana]

Well, I. I would know that you at least watch the Internet enough to know to buy stamps.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yes.

[Jordan Myrick]

And that's true. And that is true about Kendall.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You find out this is, like, a.

[Jordan Myrick]

Year after all of that happened. Yeah. Yeah. This is so late. Yeah. This is expensive.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I was like, we need to be buying stamps. Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay. And last but not least, for this kiss at the end of the day. Good or bad?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, that's good. It also depends on how you present that, because I've gone on, like, dates that have been actually gone pretty poorly, and then the person goes like, can I kiss you? And I'm like, no. Were you on this date?

[Katherine McCafferty]

But sometimes it's all you can get from it, which sounds bad, but I. I will say which for me. We were talking about this the other day.

[Jordan Myrick]

I.

[Katherine McCafferty]

On a first date, if we don't kiss, I assume you were, like, horrified by me. Like, I'm like, you don't want to make out for two hours after the date? It's. It's done for me.

[Zoe Saldana]

I Used to definitely think that. But then I started seeing somebody who absolutely liked me a lot. And we were. Went on multiple dates that were hours and hours and hours long. And I was like, this girl just wants to be my friend. Because we were, like, giggling, laughing. We weren't touching at all. And I was like, okay, so friend vibes. But somehow, like, flirty friends. Because in my head, I was like, I could switch to friends. I want to kiss this girl.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

But, like. Like, I'm not getting any signals. This must be going poorly. But then later, we did make out, and I was like, so, what were those other dates about? And she was like, I was just nervous.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. I think it's hard. I think you gotta find that sweet spot. Because I don't think you have to kiss on the first date. Especially depending on, like, how long the date is. And sometimes it's like, I don't know. For me, sometimes I would just do, like, a litmus test a little bit. It's like, oh, hey, we're both gonna be in Midtown at 4pm today. Like, let's just grab a coffee and see if we even vibe at all, you know? I think it, like, depends on, like, what's going on. I don't think there's anything wrong with not kissing on the first date. That said, I went on multiple dates with a very, very nice woman who. I enjoyed my time with her. I don't think we were realistically compatible.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

But we had a nice time, and I. I thoroughly enjoyed spending time with her. And we went on maybe five or six dates.

[Zoe Saldana]

No kissing.

[Jordan Myrick]

No kissing.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay.

[Katherine McCafferty]

That's not.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's too many dates. Well, what I was. Tell me. I move super slow and I'm not really into physical stuff. Then, like, Okay.

[Jordan Myrick]

I think the thing was, first of all, was at the very start of the pandemic. So I think, like, the first date, it was like we were sitting far apart from each other on, like, a picnic blanket in a park or whatever. So I think there was, like, some barriers. But I think because that stuff didn't get introduced early enough, it then became so, like, who's gonna do it?

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

Are we not. I'll do it. You're like, I think it just.

[Zoe Saldana]

I think there's too much time. It is hard. With that girl that I was talking about, I just via text was like, are we flirting? And she was. And her response was, yeah, but not in a serious way.

[Jordan Myrick]

And then, wow, what a confusing response.

[Zoe Saldana]

I know. And I, I. There were so many. So many SOS calls to, like, my friends about this, because I was like, what does this mean? And somebody was like, I think it just means that, like, she's nervous. Like, so she's sort of testing the waters where, like, you're like, is this flirting? She's like, yeah, if you want it to be. And so then I established via text after she said that, I made a joke, obviously.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

About how I already bought her engagement ring. And then we heed.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. Has a good sense of humor. And so then I was like, okay, well, if. Like, okay, I think we should make out then next week. And she was like, okay, okay, cool.

[Jordan Myrick]

I think that's smart. I think that's such a good way to go about it. But I will say one of my biggest dating pet peeves is when someone's acting kind of like. Like, whoa, slow down.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

She was.

[Zoe Saldana]

She wasn't like that. She was like, yeah, we should make out.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

My dream is to be mysterious in the way that this person was being, because.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. I'm not serious at all.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I've literally been. I mean, I think I said on the date, I was like, I just want to check in because I'm really scared you aren't having fun. But I assume you are. Like, you like me? Because I like you a lot.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And then, like, the next week, I was like, just want to check in where we're at with this.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

So not mysterious and uncle.

[Zoe Saldana]

But I'm constantly checking in.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I love to check in. And then I read these romance novels, and I'm like, I should have done that. I should have been more like. I don't know, like.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like, aloof. Yeah. People are constantly telling me how they're like, oh, yeah, I don't know, maybe we'll see each other again. And I'm like, what do you mean they're lying?

[Jordan Myrick]

I think they're trying to seem cool. Or they either are trying to seem cool or they don't actually like the person. Because I'm like, in what world? Well, I don't know.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Or they have so much internal panic, which is what I'm learning from this discussion, which I think I used to not believe. Like, I would just. Which, you know, I've had to therapize my. With my therapist.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

It's like I remember dating this person for a while where they just kept panicking, and I, like, didn't really believe it. Like, I was. They'd be like, sorry, I just freaked. And I was like, there's no way. Because from My perspective. I would do anything. I would quit my job. We've been on two dates. I would quit my job if you were like, come hang out with me. So I'm like, there's no way. You're freaking out enough that you don't want to hang out with me, and then you like me. But I think as I've gotten older, I've been like, oh, that really does happen. Like, these people just freak. They freak and they run away, and.

[Jordan Myrick]

Then I think there's a very, very small population of people. And if you're like, oh, that's me, it's probably not you, I'll tell you that.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Oh, there we go.

[Jordan Myrick]

I think there's a very small population of people that are truly aloof. And I would say that those people don't actually exist. But my mother is extremely aloof.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, really?

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. Yes. And I think that I'm like, okay, I have to be honest with, like, my mom is aloof with me. She's aloof with my dad, and my parents, like, love each other, have been together forever, are very happy. Like, our bros do everything together. Like, my mom is kind of like a naturally aloof person. But I think most people are lying.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, I think most people are lying.

[Jordan Myrick]

I'm chill, and they're not.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. You know, everyone that I've ever met who's chill is actually the most batshit person I've ever, ever met. I'm like, you stalked me for six months. What do you mean you're ch.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. Somehow your CTV footage says, thank you 100. Okay, let's get into some audience questions that they wrote in for you. All about first dates. This person wants to know, do you think it's worth it to go on a ton of first dates using the apps, or should I put more effort into connecting with people in shared spaces? I've been single for a few years, and I'm not a huge fan of online dating, but feel like it's sometimes the only way to connect with clear intentions.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay, well, I would say yes and no, because it depends on where you live. It just depends on where this person lives, because there are a lot of, like, sapphic dating events out here. A lot is, like, a generous word, but. But there's enough.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You could fill your schedule once a month. You could go do something.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. You could do something even twice a month. And those are special specific to dating. Whereas I do understand going to a shared space and then being like, I don't know, like, who is looking right now? And that Is hard. And. But I've never really been on the apps in, like, a dedicated manner, and the people that I've heard who have been. Aren't having a good time. So I think in person is the way to go.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And, like, being a little. And if this person is confident at all, then, like, you have the upper hand in every situation because just, like, go to an event, ask to buy a bunch of people a drink. Like, literally, it's a numbers game.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And once you get over the initial hump of, like, oh, no, I've been rejected. You really haven't.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like. And so I think that. I think that is better.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Are you someone that would go up to someone at a bar and, like, flirt with them?

[Zoe Saldana]

Well, okay. I say yes.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Like, I just did.

[Zoe Saldana]

But. But I. And this is why my friends are like, you son of a. Because what I do is I sort of create a situation where a person has to talk to me, where I'm.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You put on an apron.

[Zoe Saldana]

I've been treating. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I bump into them and belong.

[Jordan Myrick]

You stole my wallet.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. So just violence. But I'm, like, always in somebody. If I think somebody's cute and I. I see them looking at me at all the rest of the night, I'm always in their eyesight, and that makes them think that they should talk to me.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And it usually works.

[Jordan Myrick]

Smart.

[Zoe Saldana]

But. But that's a little creepy.

[Katherine McCafferty]

No, that's very smart.

[Jordan Myrick]

I think you have to be strategic in situations.

[Zoe Saldana]

You do. You have to be strategic.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And like. And the bathroom is. If it's at, like, a sapphic event, the bathroom is a great place to meet somebody. Wear something that's like, like cute or, like, super fashion forward. You're gonna get started. A few people. Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

I love that.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. That are like, oh, my God. I love whatever you're doing here. And you're like, thank you so much. Actually, my friends just left. Can I buy you a drink? I've done that before.

[Jordan Myrick]

I'm a huge proponent of the conversation starter outfit piece in every scenario. I wear them to business interviews or generals or, like, anything, because I think it's such a good, easy way to, like, bridge the gap of talking to a stranger.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

And I do have to say a little bit to change the subject or to at least go back.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

I do also, though, have to be a proponent of dating apps.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay.

[Jordan Myrick]

Because I must admit that when I was on the dating apps, I did enjoy sometimes talking to people. And certain people that I met, I went on some really Nice dates with some people where I had a really nice time and I enjoyed some of the conversations I had. I also talked to weirdos and went on strange dates. But you will also experience that in real life, too.

[Zoe Saldana]

I did that in real life. Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

And. And some of the couples we know that are like the best, happiest couples met on dating apps. So I think it's hard. I think, you know, you want. I think this person wants a clear cut answer to their question, and there's not one. And there's not. I think, like Katherine said, it's a numbers game.

[Zoe Saldana]

It is.

[Jordan Myrick]

I mean, you gotta be doing that and I think you gotta be going in person and you have to go.

[Zoe Saldana]

On those dates because what my. My biggest concern with the apps is that people are chatting, chatting, chatting, and then they're not going on a date. Yes. I say after the first two things you say set up coffee.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Because, like, we're. Then we're getting to know each other and. But we've never actually seen each other and that's. That's too wild and weird.

[Jordan Myrick]

Absolutely. Yeah. You can even start the conversation by, like, you like them and with the, like, you send a little message or like, once they like you back, the first message is just like, you're so cute. I would love to take you out for a drink.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, my God. Amazing. Yes.

[Jordan Myrick]

And confidence is just fake it till you make it. Honestly.

[Zoe Saldana]

It is.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I agree. Yeah. Because I think what. What is nice about a dating app is you have everyone there who's like, you know, they. Well, not everyone, but you can.

[Zoe Saldana]

Some people are on there because they're like, why I not wanting to date.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Exactly. And even, like, when I. It would always be okay. I just went through a breakup. I'm sobbing that room. The first thing I do is download a dating app.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's literally. I had exes do that. And then my friend was like, like, literally my friend was like, I did not even know you guys broke up. I saw them on this dating app and I was like. And that's interesting because I also didn't really know that we.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay.

[Katherine McCafferty]

But that's how, you know their heart's broken. If they were just like, fine. Like, if they were like, going, no, absolutely.

[Zoe Saldana]

It was. It was very much like we had a conversation. And then there was like another conversation where I was like, I thought we were like, sort of getting back together, but we're not, man.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah. But then I've heard some people say then, which. This feels so, like, ugh. I don't want to do that. But like, if you pay for the premium dating app, you suddenly now are like, you're with an echelon of people who are probably a little older who are paying money.

[Zoe Saldana]

I want to do this. Yeah, exactly.

[Jordan Myrick]

Well, I think that's why a lot of older people use like a match.com Harmony because it's like you can't be 60 years old.

[Zoe Saldana]

I feel like Raya, like becoming that. Or like, because people are saying probably. But people cost money.

[Katherine McCafferty]

It does, yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

To be a part of Raya costs money. I was on Raya for like, I don't know, two or three months because I was single and then I didn't want to keep paying and I was like, I, I. And this is, this is a brag. I'm like, I meet people on Instagram.

[Katherine McCafferty]

No, but truly. But I also think Raya has become so weird because I've heard that, well, some people I know met on Raya, I'm like, well, that's crazy because I thought Raya was for like very famous.

[Jordan Myrick]

Celebrities, which is my problem.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Makes sense.

[Jordan Myrick]

My cousin, I love my cousin is so hot and cool and fun and perfect. They're in a relationship now, so I don't need to sell them this hard. But I'm like, I think just like merit wise, the people on Raya would be lucky to have my cousin, to be clear. But that being said, I thought Raya was just for famous people and my cousin is like, not in the entertainment industry. So I was like. And my cousin was like, yeah, I know, it's like so weird and stupid and made up, but I'm like, what? Like, I thought Raya was original people who were on the Bachelor and the Bachelorette but that meet each other in real life.

[Zoe Saldana]

It was, it was originally like, for, I think people who are like, more famous. And then I think they just like ran out of people.

[Jordan Myrick]

I heard that that's how David Harbour got caught cheating on Lily Allen.

[Zoe Saldana]

Wait, David harbor cheated on.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Oh, boy.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. And they let Alan and now there. And yeah, this is a happy exclusive. Something I heard on Tick Tock that might not fully be accurate. I do know. I saw a million things.

[Zoe Saldana]

I was in acting class with him.

[Jordan Myrick]

With him, with him. Was he good or was he rude? Was he nice? What's going on?

[Zoe Saldana]

He was just sitting in the back. Oh, yeah. So he didn't, he didn't like, perform? I was.

[Katherine McCafferty]

He didn't do a scene. He said, I won't be.

[Jordan Myrick]

He was taking the class. Class.

[Zoe Saldana]

It's unclear Because I was sitting. It's like, one of those classes that, like, you can drop in on, and it's like a. You know, like, if you're not in on the session, but you're just, like, in New York or whatever, you can just, like, sort of pop in. And so I was. I was doing a pop in, so.

[Jordan Myrick]

I see. I see. Well, I heard. And keep in mind, legally, you can't sue me if I say, I heard. I heard that they caught him cheating on her on. Because he was on Raya, like, actively trying to beat people. But I do know he cheated on her. She came out and made a statement, being like, I'm heartbroken. I have, like, no clue. I never thought this would happen.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, my God. Ew.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I know.

[Zoe Saldana]

I hate that I've had, though, people where they're like, hey, I saw your part. Not. Not to me. Well, it did happen that one time, but. But, like, where people are like, hey, I saw so and so's partner, like, on hinge or whatever, like, what's going on? And then I've had to be like, hey, is your marriage open? Like, do I have to break something to you? Do you know what I mean? Because we really never know.

[Jordan Myrick]

What's happening is because everybody is in an open relationship.

[Zoe Saldana]

People are open.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Would you ever do that?

[Zoe Saldana]

So then I'm like, be in an open relationship. Yeah, I would.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Okay.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. I have, like, in the past, and as long as the parameters are, like, I've fully dated somebody who's, like, poly or whatever, and I'm just like, I'm a rules girl. So if you tell me what the rules are, I abide by those rules. Yeah. Like, I was, like, seeing this one girl, and she was like, I'm open. And then sometimes she would say she was poly, and I was like, hey, so we need to define this.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And so. And then she was sort of unable to define it, which was tough, and so I started taking her up on it, and I. Like, I was going on these dates and telling her about them and being like, these are the rules that I think are appropriate, and I'll share this, this, and this with you. And then she sort of was like, I'm just not interested in, like, seeing anyone else except for you. And one of my friends was like, I don't believe that she's open. Do you know, like, yeah, like, I don't know that she thought that you were gonna take her up on it.

[Jordan Myrick]

She's trying to seem chill.

[Zoe Saldana]

She might be trying to seem chill, but then Other people I have, like, been with legitimately open or legitimately poly or whatever. And I'm like, great, tell me. If you tell me the rules. I'm playing by the rules.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah, totally, Totally, totally, totally.

[Jordan Myrick]

How do you navigate a first date when you've been friends first?

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay. Wow. I've done this.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Perfect.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, my good friend lovers. I would say I done it poorly.

[Jordan Myrick]

Okay, so don't do what Katherine did so well.

[Zoe Saldana]

You have to, like, know if the other person is into you. Like, it can't be, like, a question mark. That is tough. Or. And this is bad advice. Get really drunk.

[Katherine McCafferty]

No, that's actually not bad advice.

[Zoe Saldana]

Get really drunk and then be like, you look like you would be a good kisser.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah, that's actually. I really don't think that's bad advice, because I actually. I think I. I mean, I've done that before.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

But it wasn't purposeful to, like, oh, I'm gonna get drunk, and then find out if this person is right. But you find out if you're not.

[Zoe Saldana]

No. Sometimes you're just drunk, and then sometimes you just have. Sometimes you're literally just drunk and then shows up and your friend shows up, and then you're like. And you're like, we should definitely kiss. But then after that, you have to establish like, hey, that was super fun, and I would love to take you on a date.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes.

[Zoe Saldana]

And that's chill enough. I think that then you can go on the date.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And you just have to know that it will change your friendship if it doesn't go well. Like, that's happened to me. But then you. You eventually find your equilibrium again where you're like, okay, so actually, we were just supposed to be friends, and it doesn't need to be a big deal.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Well, also, you could say if you're. I don't mean to encourage people to drink, but if you and I do.

[Zoe Saldana]

On this Christian podcast, I get blackout.

[Katherine McCafferty]

But I like, if you then kiss your friend.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You afterwards could be like, we were drunk as crazy.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And then I think it could eventually get back to a normal place. But for me, and I will say, I hear people are different when they're drunk. I've heard people's drunk stories. I'm like, that's. I've never felt that way before. I've never been drunk enough that I would kiss someone I wouldn't regularly kiss. It might just give me the courage to, like. Like, well, I feel a little looser. Let's kiss. But I'm not, like, Kissing people I'm disgusted by.

[Zoe Saldana]

No.

[Katherine McCafferty]

So I feel like you could also. You can on the drunk. You can blame it on the drunk thing. But also, like, if you kiss when you're drunk, you wanted to kiss each other.

[Jordan Myrick]

Unless you're an alcoholic, I'd say we're not speaking to you. Sometimes you are doing different stuff that.

[Zoe Saldana]

You wouldn't normally do for sure.

[Jordan Myrick]

So just be careful out there.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. So if you're an alcoholic, don't take.

[Katherine McCafferty]

This adv and get std tested.

[Jordan Myrick]

We're really pro boto. Yes, 100%. This person wants to know what are some refreshing first date ideas. Don't say axe throwing or coffee. And I have two thoughts on this immediately, right off the bat. First of all, just go to coffee.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel like a coffee date?

[Katherine McCafferty]

A drink I would just go to ax throwing.

[Jordan Myrick]

Sure. Don't try to reinvent it a while. But it's like those work for a reason. There's an easy way to get out of them if they're not going well. There's an easy way to stay in them if they are going well. They're in public for safety. It's not expensive, so you don't have to spend like a ton of money on a stranger you may or may not like. I think there's a lot of ways in which that works.

[Zoe Saldana]

I think it does work. And people are constantly just trying to be more interesting. But you can be more interesting with a coffee or a drink. Like, because you can pick a cute place that's by a nice park and then you can. You can go for a stroll by the park or it can be, like, near. If you guys both like music and you know that there's like a jazz band playing at a bar down the street. Don't go to the jazz bar first.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Go to a different bar first. And then be like, hey, there's actually jazz music playing. Like, I would love to just swing by.

[Jordan Myrick]

Well, I'm a huge proponent of that. I've said it before about movie dates, but I think, yeah, a concert, a jazz band, a reading of some kind of a thing is so nice. But because you can meet up before.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes.

[Jordan Myrick]

Get a drink, get a coffee, whatever.

[Zoe Saldana]

And then you don't have to talk.

[Jordan Myrick]

Go to the thing so you both have, like, a little time to decompress, to process or whatever. And then if, like, one of you is not into it, you can just be like, bye, see you later. At least you got to do something fun. You got to see a movie, you got to go to a reading, whatever, or if it's still going really well, you have something to talk about, and you have a touchstone that you've both related on. You can find out how you feel, how they feel, how they see the world through this, like, piece of art or whatever. I. I think it's a really nice thing to do, and I think people write it off. But I'll tell you what. If I was going on a first date and someone was like, let's just say I do things a little differently, and our first date we're going to ride horses, I would be like, yeah, I don't want to do that on a first date, because that. Want to go do something different.

[Zoe Saldana]

Well, because also, I think what you're touching on is that there's intimacy and doing something that's other than what the norm is. They're saying, like, hey, I want to share this, like, cool, fun thing, like horseback riding. It's like, okay, that's fine. But I. That feels more intimate to me.

[Jordan Myrick]

That's second or third date material.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. So don't burn that. But if you want something more interesting, just pick a coffee shop that's near something else. Or pick, you know, pick a bar that's near something else. You can. You can spice it up.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Well, also, it's kind of like that thing. This is going to sound really rude. I'm sorry.

[Jordan Myrick]

Not to.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You don't.

[Zoe Saldana]

And that's okay. I'm here for it. It's all right.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I feel like sometimes, too, it's like, the less interesting you are. Not always, but the less interesting you are, the more you're trying to, like, make it's. Yeah. Well, wait, what'd you say?

[Zoe Saldana]

The bigger the date, like, is gonna be. Like, it's gonna be like, we're gonna be making bouquets together. And it's like you just don't have a personality.

[Jordan Myrick]

Right.

[Katherine McCafferty]

It's kind of like. And I was gonna say what I feel is kind of rude, but I'm sorry. And it's not everyone, but, like, you know when you meet a girl and she's like, well, I have, like, a. A baby on my. A weird dead baby on my keychain. And you're like, what? Not a real dead baby? A fake dead baby?

[Jordan Myrick]

Like a baby doll head, something? And you're like, okay, yeah, like a baby doll head.

[Katherine McCafferty]

So it's not a real baby?

[Jordan Myrick]

Kendall, I know exactly what you mean.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Like a really? Yeah, like, they're like, I have, like, little like, my earrings are like legs of rabbits that are real that I shot myself. You're like, okay, you're. You're different for sure. But I'm kind of wondering if maybe behind that, what is going on and what I am assuming is just a really normal person.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Because why would you have to do all of these things?

[Zoe Saldana]

Some first dates that I think are on par with coffee would be like picking out a lamp at an anti. Well.

[Jordan Myrick]

Because you think that's a good first date. Because I strongly.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And then if you hate them, kiss them on the mouth.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes. Like you're picking out a lamp at an antique shop.

[Zoe Saldana]

You go on this routine near a coffee shop. So you get a coffee. You go, there's an antique shop next door. I've been really wanting a lamp.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Sure.

[Jordan Myrick]

But okay, I think you can do the lamp after coffee. But I don't think you can start in place of coffee because first of all, you're distracted.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

That's one thing nice about coffee. You're a drink. Drink. You're locked in. You know what I mean? And that's what you want. It's like, I don't want to try to talk to someone where I'm being like, okay, this lamp is 10 off, so 10.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

32.99. It's like, you're stop paying.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. So you have to start with the drink. Start with the drink.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Start with the movie. You're always pro. Going to the movie and then going after. But I'm like, to me, unless you're getting there, like, 30 minutes early, the movie is for after. Because then you've decided if you're into it or not. And then you're like, oh, should we, like, hold hands? I don't know. I'm getting the vibe. Versus if you're seeing it before, you're like, I'm not gonna, like, try to hold hands with a person. I've literally never spoken.

[Zoe Saldana]

I went to see the Substance with somebody that I wanted to kiss on the mouth. And then people were like, you have to kiss her before the movie. And I was like, no, I can't. Like, because we're just meeting up for the movie. We weren't meeting up before the movie. And then we obviously saw the movie, and that movie is not a sexy movie. And there wasn't even. She didn't even walk me to my car. Car. And I immediately got into my car, cried, and then accidentally drove to my ex's house.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Accidentally.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, because it was, like, baked into my DNA where I. I didn't get out.

[Jordan Myrick]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Zoe Saldana]

I didn't get out. I wasn't like, ding dong. No. I, like, I was, like, driving, and then I accidentally ended and I was like.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Did you cry more?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yes, obviously.

[Jordan Myrick]

Double cry.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, man.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. Don't go see the Sun.

[Zoe Saldana]

So. So if it's a horror film, you gotta meet up beforehand and know if you're gonna vibe. Vibe?

[Jordan Myrick]

Well, if it's a horror movie, too, it has to be the right kind. I think you can see, like, Body Slasher. Do you know what I mean? Like, oh, we're at a high school and, like, teens are getting killed by a mystery man.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. Fine. But, like, body horror.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Popping out. You're like, that's gross.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, that's upsetting. Absolutely. Yeah. Pick the right movie. And hey, you know what? As a little treat for our Patreon subscribers, I'll make a specialized letterboxed list of sun, and I'll reach out to Catherine to get some of her recommendations about what are good movies you could watch on a date that could help things be fun and interesting to talk about, but also maybe a little sexy.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I lost my virginity to what? Keep in mind, remember I told you I'm wearing the argyle socks. We were watching White Chicks. Oh, really? Sets the tone. Yeah.

[Jordan Myrick]

Kendall will not be consulted on the list. Nobody worry. But that's a real list I'll do. And if anyone's interested in, like, sexy, kind of spooky horror movies, I like that. Then maybe you want to get a little free freaky after. I'll put a list up on Patreon.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Okay. Wait, you've been on a first date with both Jordan and I on your show? Pretty gay.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

What did you think of us on the date? Like, what were your, like, first impressions on us on a date? Okay, like, if you were on an actual first date, which we were, we were on pretty good, and we were.

[Zoe Saldana]

On a real date, and you were right after each other, so you did sort of pass each other.

[Katherine McCafferty]

You got a huge fight in the party, a lot over it.

[Zoe Saldana]

So we went on our date first.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. And then we went on our date. Okay, So I would say we were, like, very off the bat. You felt like you felt, like, open, giggly, like, making jokes. And so then I was like, okay, cool, cool, cool. Fun, fun, fun. And then you, right off the bat, were, like, confident, and it felt like. Like this. Yeah, it felt like. Like this confident. That was like, more of, like, a quiet confidence. So you both, like, had a different energy where I was like, Instantly locked in on, like, funny. We're gonna laugh, we're gonna chat, and you're gonna tell great stories. And then you also, like, we funny chatted. But, like, I was more locked in because your. Your sort of vibe, like, made me more at ease. And so you were like, yeah. You were like, yeah, and I'm also here. And I was like. And actually you are. And that's so fun. And you had different takes on things than I thought you would, which.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Oh, really?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah, so, like, so, like, I laughed at stuff that I didn't think I would laugh at. You know what I mean? So, like, you. You kept talking about how you liked that you were sisters.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, famously. Kendall went on pretty gay and was like, george, I are kind of sisters. There's nothing wrong with wanting to fuck your sister.

[Zoe Saldana]

That was so funny because it was like that I did like, you surprised me with, like, those sorts of takes and like, your thing on bowls, like, you were very, like, you were, like, quietly confident and surprising. And then I feel like you, right off the bat, were like, I was a lesbian when I was 4 years old. And I was like, okay, and I'm in you, like, and that's fun too.

[Katherine McCafferty]

That's so funny. No, well, people always say they're like. Well, we get asked all the time. Like, I was at the lung doctor the other day. They were like sisters. And we usually are like, I don't.

[Zoe Saldana]

Get that at all.

[Katherine McCafferty]

It's funny. Cuz then I think Jordan sometimes panics and says, I know we look alike. And I'm like, no, we don't.

[Zoe Saldana]

We don't really look. Have bangs. Like, there's nothing there.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Jordan glasses. I mean, it's just completely different. But I was like, I. Sometimes I'm like, they're like, oh, I'm so sorry. Then people get, I'm so sorry. We ask that. And I'm always like, no. In a way, I do feel like we' sisters. I grew up with sisters. And I know, but I think if I had a husband, I'd be like, he's kind of like my brother in a perverted way. Because I'm like, yeah, we're not biologically related. I don't know.

[Jordan Myrick]

There's.

[Zoe Saldana]

There's.

[Katherine McCafferty]

There's a shows. What is it? The Fosters. They date their adopted siblings. I'm just saying that's not good.

[Zoe Saldana]

Look, I vote against that.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I'm not pro it, but I'm just saying it's not illegal.

[Jordan Myrick]

She's saying there's an ABC family show where they've done it. She's not for it.

[Katherine McCafferty]

So I'm just saying that sometimes I'm like, yeah, but sisters. Every night for bed, I braid Jordan's hair and we chit chat and we giggle and I'm like, like, look.

[Zoe Saldana]

And that's sister.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And then sometimes we do some unsister like things. And that is. We're not sisters and we're doing that.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Nothing wrong with that, sister.

[Zoe Saldana]

And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Jordan Myrick]

Amen to that.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. So that was sort of the. The vibe, the different. Because you guys do bring a different energy. You're both very fun though, and giggly.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Would you gone on second date in real life? Like, okay, are these types of people, these energies?

[Zoe Saldana]

I would go on a second date with both of you.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Wow.

[Zoe Saldana]

Because both were great first dates. Like, I felt like I could be myself.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And that's like.

[Zoe Saldana]

That's sort of the litmus test of being like, oh, no. I have to like totally dive into their energy. Which sometimes you do have to do. But then you know that we're not gonna go somewhere.

[Jordan Myrick]

Sure.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yes, I will. I will say I miss first dates specifically because. And I feel like you're probably similar. I did feel like I was good at first.

[Jordan Myrick]

Oh, yeah.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Because you're just like it. Not the same thing every time, but the same type of thing every time.

[Jordan Myrick]

You have any level. Level of charisma. You probably kind of like first date.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Like, I got my eight stories that people just get a kick out of.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely. And you're like. And I can carry this because I like being with me.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. Like, and I think it feels like a performance A little bit.

[Katherine McCafferty]

A little bit.

[Jordan Myrick]

So I think that's a nice buffer in between finding out if you really like this person or not to be able to. I think you know you're joking a little. But I think it's like a very true thing to say. Like, I like me and I could just be with me. And I think there is truth to that. Like, great. If we go out on a date and it's not good. Like, I had a good time with myself.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah. Plus there's rules. And you like rules. I feel like first dates, it's like I know generally what is allowed and what's not allowed.

[Zoe Saldana]

Exactly. Although I will say I've been totally wowed on a first date. Not in a great way, but in sort of. Yeah. Sort of in like a. I didn't think that that was allowed on a first date. Not like. Not like physically upsetting things. But, like, the content of what they were talking about where, like, I went on a date with somebody who is a very interesting person. However, I didn't learn that until, like, a few hours later.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Sure.

[Zoe Saldana]

Because, of course, I just stayed and was like, I think we'll get to the bottom of something that, like, should have been said on a first date, but somehow hasn't come up. But, like, they immediately went deep into, like, how do you like to date? What kind of person are you in a relationship? Like, if you come over, are you messy? And I was like, I'm sorry, I don't know your middle name. Like, why are we. Why do I suddenly know how you're gonna be my wife? Which was also, like, like, said, like, well, if I was your wife. And I'm like, you don't even know if I want to get married.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah, like, absolutely.

[Zoe Saldana]

What are we do. This was. I'm on my first drink.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yes.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Well.

[Jordan Myrick]

And people have different barometers for what they think is weird. I remember one time someone I dated for a while telling me, like, well into the relationship. Like, I thought it was so weird how much you talked about your parents on our first date. But to me, I was like, I.

[Zoe Saldana]

Talk about my mom a lot.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah, Well, I was like, I. To me, I don't think I talked about my parents very much, and I don't think I talked about them in a weird way. I'm just, like, like, relatively close to my parents and, like, like them a decent amount. So to me, it's very normal to be like, oh, yes, I like my parents. So here's a story about me and my parents. But to some other people, they're like, whoa. Like, talking about your family is very intimate. So on a first date, to bring up family is like, totally. So I think it's like, the big takeaway from this episode, I feel like, is you're gonna have to just be you on your first date.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. Sorry.

[Jordan Myrick]

Because if you're not, they'll find out later on, and they always find. And it won't work out well.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Cause even with the people who are intense, like that person you're talking about, it's like, they. It's good they ultimately did that on that date because you were able to be like, no.

[Zoe Saldana]

Well, we did go on a second.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Date, and you guys are married now.

[Zoe Saldana]

And now we are married. No, I usually give people a second date, though, because I'm like, maybe they were nervous. Yeah, maybe they were nervous.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Well, you wear a lot of cute clothes, so I Feel like.

[Zoe Saldana]

And I have a lot of cute clothes.

[Katherine McCafferty]

When you got. Well, for me, I was like, I got two shirts I like. So I gotta be really specific with what I'm doing. I feel like you're probably like, another night out on the town.

[Jordan Myrick]

My little dress.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Of course.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely not. No. Yeah, right, right.

[Jordan Myrick]

Buy lots of little dresses.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. Buy lots of little dresses. Go on lots of dates.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yeah. Katherine, thank you so much for being here today.

[Zoe Saldana]

Thank you for having me. This was such a delight.

[Katherine McCafferty]

I know we have to have you just over to our house to.

[Zoe Saldana]

I would love that. And then we can gossip. Wait, will you guys tell me if I was good on a first date?

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yes.

[Jordan Myrick]

We had so much fun. My only complaint about your show is that the chairs should be thrown in a pile and set on fire.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay, so we literally.

[Jordan Myrick]

Kendall and I both, like, We're Kendall and I. Keep in mind. Okay, so I'm an adult size large. Kendall's like a medium. We're so bad. These chairs, like, awful fit in the chair.

[Zoe Saldana]

No, they're awful chairs.

[Jordan Myrick]

I have to be polite because Catherine, that was like, our first time meeting, we had never met.

[Zoe Saldana]

Who's like, literally like a Anna Garcia, who's just like a sprite, you know, was like, these two chairs.

[Jordan Myrick]

You used her thin privilege in that moment for good instead of evil. Because when I watched that episode, I wanted to say something about the chairs. And then I was like, all the comments will be, hey, if you don't fit in the chairs, why don't you end your own life? Is what. If I had said it, that's what.

[Zoe Saldana]

All would have been.

[Jordan Myrick]

So I was like. When Anna said it, I was like, thank you, Anna. I.

[Zoe Saldana]

We got new chairs, and they are. They are better chairs. And I was like, we have to measure the chairs, you guys, because also those chairs. Chairs are incredibly uncomfortable for me to sit in. And.

[Katherine McCafferty]

And they were high up, so it was like, you're dangling off the entire state building. I'm on the edge. And also, my feet aren't touching the ground. I was going to get.

[Zoe Saldana]

So we got new ones, but they still, like, smaller.

[Jordan Myrick]

We can.

[Zoe Saldana]

They're smaller everywhere, but there are still stools, and stools are, like, hard to sit in. But we like the bar setup, so. So we're still. I think season four. We're still gonna, like, play around with the chairs. Because, I mean, the ones that we got, they fit. Like, people can actually sit in them. But Anna still is like, I hate these tools. And I was like, okay, you are now the stool master.

[Jordan Myrick]

And I love that. Bring her in as a consultant.

[Zoe Saldana]

Sit on all the different.

[Jordan Myrick]

Everyone will like. That was my only problem with our date other than that I found you incredibly charming. I had a great time. I thought your questions were fun. Fun. I mean, I thought we got into some real good, deep topics that ended up getting us on England. Yahoo.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah. Yeah. Somehow, like, the scissoring was, like, really controversial.

[Jordan Myrick]

I got put on a list that was, like, 10 celebrities who's spoken out about scissoring.

[Zoe Saldana]

Literally.

[Jordan Myrick]

Like, me and Drew Barrymore. And, like, it was crazy.

[Katherine McCafferty]

It was a take again.

[Zoe Saldana]

And that.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Just.

[Jordan Myrick]

Just that it's real. Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

And people are scissors and all Scissors do. Yeah, yeah. And that people. That most of the time, we're scissoring, like, or people get confused about, like, tripping and scissoring. But, like, people think scissoring is this and it's.

[Jordan Myrick]

And it's more like that.

[Katherine McCafferty]

But then what? People say, that's tripping, but what's the difference?

[Zoe Saldana]

No, but. Okay, so you. Crotch to crotch is scissoring, right? Just like this. But your crotches are. Your crotches are still touching. Tripping is leg. It's like the lesbian.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Completely different.

[Jordan Myrick]

Different. But you could also. Hey, you know what? There's a world in which somebody's out there doing this, and I respect them, too. All right? I respect you. You're seen. And we respect you. Okay, Gay people.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Because I'm like, if we did cowgirl, I wouldn't go, was your. You're sitting on her back.

[Zoe Saldana]

In the community, people. People are saying, like, there's no scissors. And I'm like, stop doing that.

[Jordan Myrick]

Stop it. That just means you don't want to scissor. And that's your right. Once again, we respect you. That's your right. But lay off my thing.

[Zoe Saldana]

Lay off my thing.

[Katherine McCafferty]

On our date, though, I was like. I literally said. I was like, yeah. I got nervous. So when you were like, oh, I'm not mysterious, I was like, I actually think that's not true. Because I do. I feel like on the date, I was like, if we were on a real first date, I would have been, like, intimidated, being like, I don't know.

[Zoe Saldana]

I can't tell. First date, I wouldn't be like that. I think that I'm like that because I'm confident. It's. I get to hold little cards, you know? Like, it's. It's very much like, oh, yeah, come, like, sit with me.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Versus a first date. You're walking into, like, a neutral space.

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes. Absolutely. Wow. Well, okay, Catherine, tell everyone where they can find you.

[Zoe Saldana]

You can find me online. I'm at Catherine underscore McKenzie half. Or if you want to subscribe to the Patreon, that's going to be pretty gay. Patreon.com incredible.

[Jordan Myrick]

Well, as always, thank you so much for listening, subscribing to the Patreon, watching us on YouTube, anything, it all helps. As always, this is an independently made and produced podcast, so we appreciate your support more than you could ever imagine.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Thank you so much for being here. And thank you so much, Katherine, for being here.

[Zoe Saldana]

Thank you. Can I just say that I have a live show?

[Jordan Myrick]

Yes.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay. I have a live show in Los Angeles on June 22 at Dynasty Typewriter and I keep forgetting to plug it up.

[Jordan Myrick]

We love Catherine. We love Dynasty Typewriter. So go out to that.

[Katherine McCafferty]

Yes. Thank you so much.

[Zoe Saldana]

Have a great week. Bye.

[Kendall Landriff]

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