95: The Pros and Cons of Being a LATE Bloomer feat. Ash Perez

Summary

Happy Wife Happy Life – Episode 95: The Pros and Cons of Being a LATE Bloomer feat. Ash Perez

Main Theme / Purpose

In this episode, hosts Kendahl Landreth and Jordan Myrick sit down with comedian, writer, and online creator Ash Perez to explore the nuances of “late blooming” in queer relationships and self-discovery. Together, they share personal stories, dissect queer culture, and tackle questions about coming out later in life, transitioning, gender expression, breakups, intimacy, and what it means to find yourself at your own pace.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Introducing Ash Perez: Queer Comedy, Trans Journeys, and Sapphic Rom-Coms

• [01:21] Ash introduces himself as a former Buzzfeed creator, member of the Try Guys, and a soon-to-be audio rom-com writer:

  "We invented [Buzzfeed Violet] because we were all side characters in movies, and we were like, we should be the main characters." – Ash Perez

• Ash talks about coming out as trans (transitioning at 31), his experiences as a “practicing lesbian” and joining the Try Guys.
• Discusses his upcoming immersive sapphic audio rom-com with Jenna Malone, launching on Trans Day of Visibility (March 31).

2. The Yearning That Defines Queer Experience

• [03:34] Ash and the hosts bond over the “DNA-level yearning” in queer women’s lives:

  "It’s so part of our DNA to yearn. Because that’s all we had." – Ash Perez

• Exploration of “yearning” in relationships—how queer people often get through emotional closeness and longing, sometimes without reciprocation or possibility.

3. Gender, Sexuality, and Open Discourse in Queer Communities

• [04:33]–[12:21] In a candid conversation, the hosts discuss:
  • Wrestling and close-proximity bonding among queer boys (and how testosterone changes attraction).
  • The “trans man to gay man pipeline” and spectrum of attraction post-transition.
  • Frustrations with TikTok lesbian discourse—especially arguments over “male lesbians”—and the importance of in-person conversations.
• Memorable Quote:

  "You don’t get to die on every hill. The reason they call it a hill to die on is so that, when you put your foot down, people will listen... If everything is your hill to die on, it’s like a fart in the wind." – Ash Perez [06:53]

4. The Complexity of Labels, Community, and Cisnormativity

• [09:23] Kendahl raises the hot take:

  "If a trans man wants to still identify as a lesbian, I’m fine with that. Like, it doesn’t affect me at all. ...So many other people are invalidating us, if someone is identifying ... in a way that doesn’t immediately make sense to you, that doesn’t inherently make it wrong." – Kendahl Landreth

• Discussion on the Internet's relative acceptance of femme non-binary folks versus trans men or masc nonbinary people.

5. Double Coming-Outs & Navigating “Queer Adolescence” as an Adult

• [14:06] Ash reflects on coming out and transitioning later in life:

  "It’s a specifically queer experience to come out a second time and to have a queer adolescence... And then again as a trans person." – Ash Perez

• Talks about going through “literal adolescence” again (acne, hormone changes, puberty) in his 30s.

6. The Impact of the Patriarchy—For Everyone

• [15:36] Ash and the hosts explore how male privilege and patriarchy harm both women and men, and the universal need for space to discuss masculinities.

7. Coming Out Stories: Late Bloomer vs. Early Bloomer Journeys

• [17:22]–[22:07] Stories about coming out, being a late bloomer vs. finding identity early, and how queer spaces and societal norms shaped their experiences.
  • Kendahl: Late-blooming in a conservative town, only realizing her queerness through YouTube.
  • Jordan: Out and self-assured from a young age—always a bit of an “old soul.”
  • Ash: From knowing early, but censoring himself due to cultural/religious norms.

8. Late Bloomers and the Emotional Rollercoaster of Starting “Late”

• [28:02], [29:03] Ash shares how autism and love of structure meant embracing rules, but breaking out and exploring his sexuality took more time.
  • “Honestly, can I tell you, I've also recently been diagnosed with autism, which puts this whole other layer...” – Ash [28:12]
• Discussion about how the pandemic created safe spaces for people to come out or transition later.

9. Dating as a Late Bloomer: Pros, Cons & Community

• [35:05] On the challenges of being a “baby gay” or late bloomer:

  "If you ever meet someone that you’re like, you're hot, why are you funny? Why do you have a personality? ...Ugly kid. Fat kid. Weird kid. Neurodivergent in some way. Absolutely. Those are my favorite people." – Ash

• The unfair expectation of having experience before anyone will date you:

  "It's like when you try and get a job out of college and they're like, you need five years experience."

10. Generational Differences, Lesbian Culture, and Spaces

• [32:29]–[34:34] The changing face of queer spaces:
  • Lesbian bars disappearing, but bookstores and alternative community spaces rising.
  • Newer generations of trans men often embrace gay male spaces and culture, sometimes skipping the steps/layers older late bloomers went through.

11. Reflection: When Do You “Bloom”?

• [38:46] When did you find yourself? Hosts and Ash compare timelines, with some only recently feeling fully themselves—and others (Jordan) feeling she’s always had the same essence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Yearning & Queer Culture

"It’s so part of our DNA to yearn. Because that’s all we had." – Ash Perez [03:34]

On Online Discourse Fatigue

"I'm tired of lesbian discourse on TikTok. I think we need to be having more person to person, real life discourse and not like a 15 year old from Idaho... being like, 'male lesbians can't exist.' I'm like, shut up." – Kendahl Landreth [06:09]

On Labels and Acceptance

"If a trans man wants to still identify as a lesbian, I'm fine with that. Like, it doesn't affect me at all. ...So many other people are invalidating us, if someone is identifying ... in a way that doesn't immediately make sense to you, that doesn't inherently make it wrong." – Kendahl Landreth [09:23]

On Embarrassing Late Blooming

"It's so embarrassing. And I think at 16 it's like I wouldn't even think about it. But I did that at 20. ...So embarrassing." – Kendahl Landreth (on being messy after a first breakup as a late bloomer) [62:01]

On Sexual Intimacy & Dysphoria

"All relationships are just about communication. Sex, good sex, is about communication. ...The idea that two bodies meld into each other and immediately know what the other wants ... we're not aliens in Pandora." – Ash Perez [55:18]

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Important Listener Q&A Segments

Approaching Dating as a Late Bloomer / New Queer

• [50:27] Listener Q: How do I start dating as a queer person with no experience?
  • Ash: “You’re not behind. It’s okay to be new to things... Dating is statistics. The more you put yourself out there, the more you learn what you like and what you don’t like.”
  • Hosts echo: Most queer people start dating later, or don’t have typical “dating” experience. The therapy part—knowing yourself—is the hardest and you’ve already done it.

Navigating Intimacy and Dysphoria During Transition

• [55:18] Listener Q: How to handle intimacy, dysphoria, and sex while transitioning?
  • Ash: “All relationships are just about communication. ...Good sex is about communication. ...It's always okay to debrief.”
  • Jordan: Everyone has something about their body they feel weird about; trans experience is unique but relatable.

Processing a First Breakup in Adulthood

• [61:37] Listener Q: How do you move through a first real breakup as an adult?
  • “You just have to go, I’m going to be embarrassed about this later…almost got fired from my job because I was crying at work…So embarrassing. And there’s nothing wrong with it.” – Kendahl Landreth
  • Ash: "You have every right to that experience just as much as a cis straight person does, just because you weren't allowed to societally have it."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:21] – Ash’s introduction, background, and upcoming queer audio rom-com
• [03:34] – The importance of “yearning” in queer romance and media
• [04:33]–[12:21] – Gender, transition, and online lesbian discourse
• [14:06] – Double coming-outs and queer adolescence
• [17:22]–[22:07] – Coming out stories: late vs. early bloomers
• [28:02], [29:03] – Autism, rules, and the comfort of structure for late bloomers
• [35:05] – The “ugly/weird/fat kid to hot, interesting adult” pipeline
• [41:11] – Childhood confidence, being oneself, and family role models
• [50:27] – Listener question: Dating for the first time, queer or late in life
• [55:18] – Listener question: Navigating intimacy and body confidence while transitioning
• [61:37] – Listener question: Surviving heartbreak and your first adult breakup
• [68:42] – Ash’s “lean into whimsy” ritual and wisdom card “gifts” for hosts
• [71:24]–[74:11] – Throuple Bracket segment; Ash pitches himself as the best “third”

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Summary of Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, the tone is warm, open, irreverent, and deeply personal, with all three embracing vulnerability and humor. Ash brings a witty, honest perspective on transition, intersectionality, and queer late-bloomer identity. The hosts match with empathy, sharp observations, and a “deeply in love but not experts” energy. The conversation centers on self-acceptance, embracing difference, and building community—while also sharing plenty of laughs and resonant “you're not alone” moments.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "We invented [Buzzfeed Violet] because we were all side characters in movies, and we were like, we should be the main characters." – Ash [01:21]
• "It’s so part of our DNA to yearn. Because that’s all we had." – Ash [03:34]
• "You don’t get to die on every hill... If everything is your hill to die on, it’s like a fart in the wind." – Ash [06:53]
• "If a trans man wants to still identify as a lesbian, I’m fine with that. ...That doesn’t inherently make it wrong." – Kendahl [09:23]
• "The idea that two bodies meld into each other and immediately know what the other wants ...we’re not aliens in Pandora." – Ash [55:18]
• "You just have to go, I’m going to be embarrassed about this later." – Kendahl [62:01]
• "What makes you different or weird, that’s your strength." – Card drawn by Ash (at the close) [70:01]

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Conclusion

This episode is an affirming, hilarious, and insightful look into what it means to find yourself, embrace change, and create queer community and culture at any age. Whether you’re a late bloomer or a lifelong overachiever, Kendahl, Jordan, and Ash make space for reflection, reassurance, and a few laughs at the beautifully winding path that is the queer experience.

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For More from Ash Perez

• Ash’s website: ashperez.com
• Forthcoming audio rom-com "Speak Now" (out March 31; pre-order link in episode bio)

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Next episode: Stay tuned for more special guests, and the evolving “Throuple Bracket”!

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Happy Wife, Happy Life. We're your hosts.

[B]

I'm Kendall Landriff.

[A]

And I'm Jordan Myrick.

[B]

And we are two incredibly unqualified but.

[A]

Deeply in love comedians who are here to help you with all things relationships. And on today's episode, we're talking Dating as a Late Bloomer with Ash Perez. Hi.

[C]

Ash.

[A]

Thanks so much for being here.

[C]

Wow. I love. I both love that energy, and it's a little terrifying when you both turn at the same time like machines. It's like, get out a little bit.

[A]

Absolutely, yeah.

[B]

Hi.

[C]

Hi.

[A]

We are scary.

[B]

I will listen to other podcasts. I'm not a huge podcast listener, but I've started in the new year kind of listening to a couple, and I find that all their intros are much less twins from the Shining than ours. Well, ours is a little scary.

[C]

Me and my friend have a podcast, and it's a little bit. We have a thing that we say every time, but yours is, like, so.

[A]

Intense, and it's long.

[C]

Yeah, Goes on. It's impressive.

[A]

You know, we're very intense as people, I would say. So I think it matches, and I think you either love it like some of our fans, or you hate it like my dad. My dad hates it.

[B]

We like to assert dominance with our guests, and I do think the long memorized intro does that.

[A]

I think it's important. Now, you said you had a podcast, obviously. I'm sure everyone listening to this already knows who you are, knows what you do. But for anyone who lives under a rock and doesn't.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you want to tell people, like, where you're from, what you do, what your deal is?

[C]

Yeah. My name is Ash Perez, formerly Ashley Perez. Most people know me, I think, from Buzzfeed. I started a channel called Buzzfeed Violet with some of the OGs of Internet comedy. Quinta Brunson, Sarah Rubin, Ella Male Nishenko. And it was all. It literally was. We invented it because we were all side characters in movies, and we were like, we should be the main characters. And then from there, I accidentally got into television writing and acting, and then have recently transitioned into being blonde.

[A]

And that must have been really hard to do that publicly.

[C]

I think, you know, it's a very anti blonde agenda right now.

[A]

It is.

[C]

So it's like, you know, people want you to be who you are and not, like, fake and not blonde. Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And like, we're causing so many troubles, the blonde. So. But like, I transitioned, and then I recently joined the Try Guys cast. I guess that was like two years ago now. I'm a try guy now and I have a show called New Guy Tries.

[A]

That's incredible.

[C]

I love that. And wait, I have one more thing. I found out that you love Sapphic rom com or Sapphic books. I have a Sapphic Rom com audio original coming out.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And Jenna Malone is in it. And Aria and Mandy from the L Word. And as a big fan of rom coms, I'm so stoked for everyone to hear. It comes out in March.

[B]

I'm going to devour.

[A]

What day in March?

[C]

Trans day of visibility on accident. March 31. Wow. You will both be getting copies. And it's.

[A]

Please do.

[C]

It's a pure audio original. So I wrote it for audio. The format is like fully immersive. It's kind of like a. Like a play slash. But it's so. Even though it's audio, I get embarrassed. I have to like, cover my eyes because it's so much yearning.

[A]

Loves to your.

[B]

I just do a five whole podcast episode about yearning. Yes. Where it was just these two authors talking about, like, the best yearning and what makes a good yearning. And a lot of historical. Historical romances have just these like, he crawled across the ocean. That's really impressive.

[A]

Crawled across the ocean.

[C]

Huge.

[B]

But I love yearning. Need a lot of yearning.

[C]

I think specifically for queers and like, for lesbians. You know, as a practicing lesbian for most of my life, it's so part of our DNA to yearn. Because that's all we had. That's all we had. And there's a lot more socially acceptable experiences where you're in close proximity to a best friend and you can yearn and it's like, you know, and it feels like ammonite all the time.

[A]

Absolutely. I feel like we were just talking about this the other night with one of our friends where it's like when you're younger and you're queer, you do. And not like. I feel like with queer guys, it's like wrestling. That's the big thing that they do when they're younger.

[B]

Which I did not realize was so common. But I've started asking my. Because I remember the first gay man who told me, oh, I used to wrestle with my crush. I was like, there's no way that's true. That's insane. And I've asked more people and they're like, yeah, my best friend and I used to wrestle constantly naked.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So like Greek. We're going like back into.

[A]

Yeah. And that's how they justify it.

[C]

Yeah. They're like rivalry.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Just like sport. That's why sports are so important. So as someone who has now been on testosterone and feels what it feels like in my body, I guarantee you the reason that most men say no homo is because it makes you homo. Like, I was 90% into women and now post transition, I'm way more into men than I ever have been. And I'm like, oh, I think it's the testosterone making me horny for men.

[A]

Wow. We were talking about this before we left the house.

[C]

I love that.

[A]

No, we were because. Well, because we were talking about people we know who, you know, kind of the classic, like you at some point are like, maybe high femme. Then you're like, oh, I'm a lesbian.

[C]

Then you're like, hey, mamas to trans man pipeline.

[A]

Yes. There's like a lot of like layers to it. But then a lot of people, once they identify as trans or non binary or things like that, then they're much more like open on the gender spectrum. And I think so much of it too is also like how you see yourself within a relationship. Because I, having done it and not wanting to do it again, would not be in a heterosexual relationship. But as someone who identifies like along the gender non conforming scale. I could see myself being a gay man in a gay male relationship way before I could see myself being like a CIS woman in a heterosexual relationship.

[C]

Absolutely. Because as the further away from heteronormativity you can get, the more there has to be conversation about what your relationship looks like.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

I agree. I want to bring up something controversial, but I don't want to get all of us in trouble.

[C]

Okay, tell me the controversy, what is it?

[B]

Well, just say no.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, okay. I'm just tired of lesbian discourse on Tick Tock. I'm tired of it. I don't want to see it anymore.

[B]

You want to have more right now?

[A]

I want to have more. Well, I think we should be having it in person. That's what I'm saying. I think we need to be having more person to person, real life discourse and not like a 15 year old from Idaho.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Being like male lesbians can't exist or whatever. I'm like, shut up. Like we have to be having person to person discourse because it's so much more.

[B]

I think most real Internet that I see opinions on the Internet, I. What I really want to say is like to grasp them by the shoulders and be like, do you really care about this thing you're talking about? Does it really matter to you? And I think the answer is usually no.

[C]

Somebody told me early on in my career, you don't get to die on every hill.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And that was so important for me as a writer, as a creative, and as a person, because it's true. The reason they call it a hill to die on is so that when you put your foot down, people will listen and be like, damn, this is really important to this person. I wonder what. What perspective they're bringing that makes this so vital versus if everything is your hill die on. It's like a fart in the wind. Yeah.

[A]

You're the boy who cried wolf, right? It's like everything is at a 10.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So nothing's at a 10.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I also think the discord, like, yeah, a lot of the TikTok. I mean, it's great because I love that. It's. It's basically just I realized last night when I was super high that TikTok is just what we had in Twitter. But because we couldn't write it anymore, people have to say it. But the problem is it is not an easy way to reply. Like, with Twitter, it had, you know, pre evil Twitter, it had more of a kind of discourse and like, pre evil algorithm. So I agree. What's the thing that you would. What's the hot take of lesbian discourse that you want?

[B]

Your head. You just don't want to have it.

[A]

Well, I don't want to have it. And I think everyone should stop talking about male lesbians. I think if someone wants to identify, and this is the thing that bothers me whenever I see someone, everyone's always talking about male lesbians. And I'm like, I really, as an adult myself, have not encountered that very often. And anytime even.

[C]

Not really. Yeah.

[A]

And anytime I've ever even seen or heard about it online, it's always like a trans man or someone who's trans masc who identified as a lesbian for all their life. And I'm just like, yeah, I don't know. I guess this, to me, doesn't feel like the thing to be mad about. If a trans man wants to still identify as a lesbian, I'm fine with that. Like, it doesn't affect me at all. And I'm like, do whatever you want. And I think it's super harmful to be so caught up in the logistics of these categories that are designed to actually create community and help you find your people. And I think people get into like, well, it's invalidating then to the trans man. It's invalidating to the lesbian community. I'M like, let it go. Like, if there are so many other people treating us poorly and invalidating us constantly, if someone is identifying along the sexuality and gender spectrum in a way that doesn't immediately make sense to me, to you, to whoever, that doesn't inherently make it wrong. And I think we need to be more open to that. And I think also this is a really hot take.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[A]

I think that we are very, very accepting on the Internet.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

To non binary people who were assigned femme at birth who present extremely femme. I do not think we pay that same thoughtfulness forward to other people. For example, like people male at birth.

[C]

Yes. Who.

[A]

Who present as like traditionally male or whatever, who identify as non binary or. I think we're very accepting of people who are bisexual especially, who once again, are like femme women who have never been with another woman or non binary people who have only ever been with a man. I think we're very accepting to that group kind of at large on the Internet, which I think is wonderful. I don't think we shouldn't be.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'm like, if we're okay with that, why are we so upset by like a male lesbian? I don't know. I just think there's like, still a lot of transphobia and a lot of heteronormativity, like, baked into a lot of this discourse that a lot of people don't even realize they're having.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, you don't like this because this person is identifying with like, maleness or masculinity or whatever in some sense. And you're like, well, I'm a lesbian, so I hate that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, that's still centering men. Like if you just hate men and male things, because. Yes, that's still centering men. And like the whole point of being a lesbian is like decentering men.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

What do we think? Am I going to get canceled?

[C]

No, I don't think so. I mean, we won't let that happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No, not with this energy. I. I think as somebody who has, like, lived through this now and has. It is such a mind to, you know, I didn't start transitioning until I was 31. So to be socially raised as a woman and then to be culturally a lesbian and then to immediately get privilege and the more unlike, you know, trans women, because testosterone is so strong, it. The benefit to trans men is that often over time, you become more and more passing without surgical intervention.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Whereas trans women tend to need surgical Intervention. And so part of the privilege of that is that you get male privilege, but then you also get male ire. Like, I. I know I'm trans because I would have never wanted to be a man. Like, I wouldn't have chosen that. Like, what I loved, the only thing that saved me was feminism and equality. And I was always so upset about having that a body meant that you had to act a certain way or be a certain way. And it just seems so unfair. And I realize now it's because I was in the wrong body. But I'm learning on the other side for men, too. You know, men need just as much space to dismantle and discuss what their masculinity means to them.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So the problem I think that we have is that patriarchy has caused so much harm, but individual men don't have room to talk about these things. And then when somebody says they're a male lesbian because people feel like it's CIS men encroaching on them. But, no, it's actually often a trans man who has been culturally a lesbian for decades now, trying to understand, like, I'm not talking about my maleness in the, like, CIS patriarchal way. I'm trying to figure out a new maleness, new way.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, so I totally agree with you because I'm culturally. I think it's in the way, too, that, like, if you're raised Catholic or Jewish. I was raised Seventh Day Adventist. It's like, I'm always going to be sda, even though I don't practice it because I was culturally that. And I'm culturally going to be a lesbian.

[A]

Yeah. Well, in the lesbian culture and community is so strong. There's so, like, much to it. It's a very rich community that I think to just have it completely ripped away from you the second you kind of start trying something new or experiencing something different or having different feelings, like. Yeah. I'm like, I never meet a man like John who's like, I'm a male lesbian.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? John? John, do you identify as a male lesbian?

[C]

No, I do not.

[A]

Okay. See, he was thinking about it for a second.

[C]

Like, do I?

[A]

No.

[B]

I couldn't see him moving to the mic, and I thought he was just sitting in silence. And I was like, this is about to be the worst moment of my life.

[C]

About John's, like, he's about to say.

[A]

Been wanting to tell you guys something. Yeah. Now, okay. Speaking of what you said a second ago, you didn't transition until you were 31 years old.

[C]

36 now.

[A]

You're 36?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That must have been.

[B]

What did you say? A hoot and a holler.

[C]

A hoot and a holler and a lot. Yeah, it was. It was a complete mind fuck. It was like a. And I think it's the same. So I'm going through. It's a specifically queer experience to come out a second time and to have a queer adolescence or to come out and. And then have a queer adolescence. To do it again as a trans person and come out again and have another literal adolescence. I have acne on my face. I have. I'm going through puberty. Like, it's. It really is a mind fuck. But I'm. I'm realizing now, like, I think people are just scared of trans people because it's so unknown. It's like trans people are experiencing this thing that is impossible for even us to describe. Like, I cannot tell you what it feels like to go from being. I mean, you guys know, every woman has felt her whole life afraid that you're going to get raped or murdered if you're just walking or existing or if you don't say the right thing to a man or if you look the wrong way or. I used to go traveling with a fake engagement ring or get in an Uber so a man wouldn't talk. And now these same dudes are like, what's up, my brother? How's it going? Like, and. And I'm in on this whole other culture that is also sad to me because I can. I've started to, like, break through. It was really. I was afraid of it. And now I've started to realize that a lot of men are existing on this surface of. They want to go past that, too. And they. They're just people. They just want to talk.

[A]

Well, the patriarchy hurts all of us. I think it's something that people are just now starting to talk about in terms of Internet discourse, of being like, we have to stop the cycle. And men are part of the cycle.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So they have to have space to, like, talk about it and break it down, too, which I think is true to me sometimes. It kind of reminds me of how, like, really conservative people are. Like, we can't have abortion, but we also can't have, like, accessible access to birth control, but we also can't teach sex education in school.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, okay, so you don't want to do anything to stop the problem, but you want to be upset that, like, teen moms exist.

[B]

It's like, no, they're not upset. Their teen moms exist. They want the teen moms.

[C]

Yeah. Isn't it crazy? The best birth control. The show. The show, yeah. Actually, 100 does that.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

Study wise. Yeah. Like, dropped down the teen pregnancy rate more than anything. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because it was. I mean, it's a horror show.

[A]

It was scary. You saw the way that Ryan treated Macy and you said, never me.

[C]

It wasn't. It wasn't Gilmore Girls.

[A]

No.

[C]

We thought it was going to be Gilmore Girls. You have a little, like, Rory running.

[A]

Mother, daughter. Like, no, not at all.

[B]

Too. It's like, I think people just want. Which this is not new information, but everyone wants just things in a box. Even, like, I know for me, coming out as a lesbian at 18, I always felt a level of privilege because it was like, well, God, I came out in the most perfect way. People expect you to come out. I didn't date any men. And then everyone was like, why? And then at 18, I was like, I'm gay. And everyone was like, incredible. And I never went away from that. And it was very simple. And I think I see even for you, like, you date, you dated men. And I saw you be like, you coming out as a lesbian was much more. There's a lot more questions. I don't know if I can't speak if it was hard on you, but I think there was a lot more like, I don't know, we'll see, you know, than.

[C]

Than I. Yeah.

[A]

It was certainly confusing my parents, who are very accepting and very liberal, but still, they were like, what? And I think a big thing that my mom had to grapple with was being like. But it makes me sad to think that you were so unhappy that whole time.

[B]

I think my mom. That too. Yeah.

[A]

Doing things didn't want to do and whatever. And I was like. It wasn't really like that, though.

[C]

It was like, you know, finding myself. Yeah.

[A]

It was like trying stuff out. And, like, a lot of the men I dated did, in fact, look like lesbians.

[C]

Oh. Yeah.

[A]

Which I feel like is a canon event. And I also didn't have, like, good relationships with men in general. You know what I mean? I dated a lot of people that, like, were extremely emotionally unavailable, that, like, kind of didn't like me. And I didn't always like them, but.

[C]

I was like, let me tell you, they didn't like themselves.

[A]

100. And you know what? I didn't always like myself. So I think it was a lot of things where it was, like, feeling it out. So that was a big thing that it took for me explaining to my mom as someone who I had identified as bisexual since I. As early as can be. I like all through middle school and high school and yes, I had always been known. I had always like you're just like a little bisexual. Yes.

[C]

Where did you grow up?

[B]

Florida. Well, I grew up Miami, Florida.

[A]

I'm originally from New Orleans and then I grew up in the Miami Fort Lauderdale area which is also extremely gay. Most of my friends, most of most of my parents friends were gay men. Are gay men growing up. So I grew up around a lot of gay people.

[C]

I think I around lesbian though.

[A]

Well, it's rare and I think especially so I'm 32 and I think now we're in more of a phase where it's kind of like it feels like everyone's gay. But even when I was growing up, it was like I grew up around so many gay men in such gay places. But my parents had one friend that was a lesbian. They just weren't as prevalent and no one was bisexual. Pansexuality did not exist. It just was like a different time, even though it wasn't that long ago.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think that you know, there were layers to it of that where it was like I knew I was attracted to women in but. And to date who. And then I started college. I went to NYU for acting incredibly gay. Once again, very few queer women. There were two lesbians in my program. They started dating each other the first day of school. Yeah, for the count on that one. I said okay. I guess I missed that train then. There were like a ton of men around, so I was like, well, I.

[C]

Don'T hate this lady boy or lady girl. Lady bird. Sorry.

[A]

Lady girl. Lady bird. Yeah.

[C]

Not lady boy or lady girl. That'll get me in trouble. Lady bird. Boys, yes, absolutely. That are theater boys who are like.

[A]

Do improv and would never think to challenge me. It's wild.

[B]

We. I mean I. I apologize for repeating myself. I've already said this. But I. Where I grew up, it was like being gay wasn't even a thought in your head. Like where I grew up. And I always think about crazy cuz.

[A]

It was northern California. It's not like you grew up in.

[B]

Like real southern up there.

[C]

I was in southern California and I also grew up nobody. I tried to tell my parents I were gay, I was gay. And they were like, no, you're not. That's just like a thing that people think. Where are you? San Diego.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah, it was But I was really Christian.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I was not. And I didn't grow up in a primarily Christian. I mean, there were Christians, but it wasn't, like, a big Christian area. It was just, like, conservative, and it was small. And so there were just no gay people. I mean, now I go back and it's wild. There's, like, all these lesbians there, and part of me is like, do I come back and have a renaissance here with my wife?

[A]

I was about to say, excuse me.

[B]

With my wife, and be like, oh, there's gay people here now. But it was so. And I always think about my English teacher in middle school. And I hesitate to say this, so I'll just Clarify. I'm not 100% this woman is gay. She may not be at all, but she played rugby. She had a pixie cut, she dressed like a lesbian. She was so cool. She was an English teacher. It just.

[C]

I think we all had one of those.

[B]

And no one ever was, like, joking about her being gay. Like, we all just were like, her husband. I'm sure she has a husband.

[A]

Well, didn't you go to school with a kid whose name was, like, Michael Gay or something?

[B]

Yes, my. My middle school boyfriend. His last name was Gay. No one ever commented on it.

[A]

That's crazy, because it was just like.

[B]

That we did not think about being gay. It was not. Like, I always, like, was it closet.

[C]

Bad then, or was it also.

[B]

It was like.

[C]

Because for me, it was just like, you knew you weren't supposed to be.

[B]

But no, I think I. In high school, like, I have a diary entry. I wish I could find this journal. It's a journal that I wrote one page of my sophomore year of high school, and it just says, I'm gay at the top. Dated. Never wrote anything else in that journal. But I just needed to get it off my chest, I guess. And I then started having these. Oh, I need to be closeted.

[C]

And I.

[B]

But I think also it was more like, you just. You knew. You waited till college, but before that.

[C]

Yes, because that's when you experiment. I loved. I was like, oh, wait, women experiment in college. So I was like, that's gonna be my bag. Yes.

[B]

I was like, I don't even mind. Wait, I got a lot going on. What am I gonna date? And there's no other lesbians who are out, so what am I gonna do? But before that was. I didn't feel that closeted. I think looking back, I look back at all these moments, and I go, oh, I was so closeted. And I see get into it. But be made me a late bloomer. And how I struggled later in life because I didn't get any of these experiences that like you'll talk about. But I didn't feel this like I'm trapped. Cuz I was like I just didn't think about being gay. I didn't think of that as a thing. I was just like, oh, I'm not into men yet. I always thought I'm just not in a men.

[A]

Kendall's dad took her to dinner and was like, okay, you can tell me. And she was like, tell you what? And he was like, you can tell me you're gay. I'm fine with it. And she was like what are you talking about? And she like didn't even think she was like, am I gay?

[B]

And that was always incredible. In my. He's the. He was the best. And my house there was always this argument because my dad would be like Kendall's gay. And my mom would be like stop. Which is appreciated to be clear because I think she was like she's clearly not ready to talk about it if she is. But he. But even with that voice in my ear I still was just like. Because I just didn't even know what that means. And I, I think the, the when I started to realize I was gay was only because of YouTube. Was only because of going on YouTube and seeing these lesbian creators and Hannah Hart and being like, oh. And I had. And even like I had all this Hannah Hart merch I would wear. No one ever. My school was like, oh, you're gay. You're obsessed with a gay woman. Like you're gay. It was just so you could be almost out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you just didn't say you were gay because everyone was so oblivious to it.

[A]

Well, I think one scary thing too is being like, maybe I'm wrong because like how embarrassing would it be if you were like I'm gay. And then like a year later had to be like no, I'm not. So I think you're like, oh, I have to experiment a little bit before.

[B]

I to confirm do the big announcement.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I always that it's. It seems like we had the three completely different experiences. Which is interesting. You usually don't have like queer people tend to land in one or the other. But like I knew the first person I ever had a crush on was a girl. And I knew immediately I wasn't supposed to talk about it because I was a girl. And then the weirder thing that I've realized in Hindsight. I had dreams all the time that I was a little boy and I would get found out and that I was. But. But I thought in my mind, the way I was trying to justify it was, oh, I want to be a boy so I can date girls. And it's like, oh, no, I was just in the wrong body.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Well, because sexuality and gender are so conflated in heteronormativity and in, like, popular culture that kind of like you said earlier, it's like, once you start breaking down things, you're like, ooh, what's what?

[C]

My mom and I started. Had to. My mom is very accepting now. And it was really funny because we were. She's like, well, anak. Anaq means child in Tagalog. She's like, I just don't understand. Because you were bisexual before, but now you're trans. I'm like, aha. Teaching moment. I was like, mom, so there's sexuality and there's gender. And I was like, I am still bisexual. I was like, I actually wasn't as bisexual before, but I am more now, but I'm a man, and I'm a trans man. And then we played this game where she would have to say, I would give her a person like Neil Patrick Harris, and she'd have to be like, CIS gay man. And it was so fun.

[B]

I love her.

[A]

Everyone should be playing that with their parents, I think.

[C]

And she was like, I'm gonna play this with my friends.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Margaritas, you.

[A]

And now you have to make a card game that you can sell that actually monetize such a funny idea.

[B]

You could name it something quippy like, my kids. My kids woke or something like that. And it could just be cards to test. Cause that is funny. It's a good gag gift.

[C]

And it actually was helpful because I realized, even for me, like, I think we forget once we've gone through that experience how foreign it was to us at some point. Which I think the other thing about, like, all this online discourse is, like, we need to be compassionate with each other. Of, like, we didn't all come out of the womb knowing all these fucking terms. I didn't. I couldn't articulate that I was a trans man and I had a trans sibling. Like, I. Again, the same thing where you're like, my dad asked me if I was gay, and I didn't say yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's like my sibling came out, and everyone's like, oh, did you know then? And I was like, no, right. You know, like, it is a Completely personal experience. And it's okay. Like, I think words are so powerful too, because they can mean so much, but they can also mean nothing. The more you get to know yourself, the less the words. The words that other people call you mean.

[B]

Yes. Well, and it's also so dependent on. I, like, I. I have a lot of family in the deep south, the Bible Belt. And I do feel compassion sometimes because I'm like, if you saw the way these people grew up, you would understand why they're saying some things. They're saying because it is so different. And my therapist was telling me a while ago about how she specializes in gender, and she was like, I've had a lot of Mormon clients because they come to me being like, I think I'm a trans man or I'm non binary or whatever. And after years of working together, either that is true or it's not. Because their version of a woman, it just reminds me kind of what you were talking about earlier. Like, what they know is to be a woman is so not who they.

[A]

Are and is so in relation to CIS men.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And sexuality. So it's like, oh, actually, no, girl, you're like a bull.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, but sometimes it's like, oh, no, you are a trans man, but you want to be feminine. Yeah.

[A]

Or sometimes it's even like, you want a job.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, you're a straight woman.

[C]

Straight woman with something we call agency.

[A]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

And they're like, I get like top surgery. And the therapist, like, I mean, may, but let's take a step back.

[C]

It's like, first you need to watch Mona Lisa smile and be like, do you really relate to any of these women? There's like a gay one, there's an oppressed one, like a whole. You have to deconstruct that first.

[A]

But.

[B]

So you were a late bloomer, you.

[C]

Would say, oh, I was absolutely a late bloomer. I didn't start dating until I was 25.

[A]

Wait, so you weren't slaying puss in college like you thought you would be?

[B]

Damn, that's rough.

[C]

Listen, I was in a sorority. I was surrounded by it. But yeah, that's how much my journey took me. And honestly, can I tell you, I've also recently been diagnosed with autism, which puts this whole other layer of what I now understand is how I was relating to the world. With autism, I like to have rules of how things are supposed to go. So when I was in a sorority, I actually felt so at peace, even though it was the complete opposite A lot of rules, how I look. Because there were rules, not just about how we interacted as friends, but what kind of what women look like, how you dress, how you would dress each other, how you got ready. There was so much ritual that was like, so, you know, I was still the fucking gay one, basically, even though I wasn't gay. I was wearing, like, you know, vests and the whole thing. Beanies. But at the same time, I had this framework to fit into.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And that was so reassuring. I think the scarier part is when you start to go and question something on the other side of your spectrum. You don't know where you're gonna land, and it. You don't want to be judged in the middle. I think that's why so many people came out during the pandemic, especially as trans, because it was insular. We're alone. You can do these things.

[A]

They, like, don't have to go to work every day and be like, and today I'm trying a skirt or whatever.

[C]

What's with your hair?

[A]

Yeah, like, absolutely. You couldn't fly to see your family for Thanksgiving. You just kind of can do whatever in your own apartment. I think that's a really smart insight that I've never thought about, but I think that's 100% true. I do want to know, is there anyone from your sorority that also has changed how they identify anywhere on the spectrum?

[C]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I have a lot of queer sisters.

[B]

Because you said in the sorority, it was a lot of people were slaying puss.

[A]

No, I said that, but then you.

[B]

Said there was a lot of that going on.

[C]

No, I just said I was around a lot of puss.

[B]

I see. I thought you were around. I was like, sisters.

[A]

Okay, sorry.

[C]

We.

[A]

I'm an only child, and I wasn't in a sorority, so I don't get sisters in general.

[C]

But.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that, like. Because that's one thing that's fun to me now is when I see people that I, like, went to high school with that now are out, that, like, weren't out in high school, and we're.

[C]

Like, yeah, well, this is where the yearning comes a. That's. That's the most fun experience. When you go back and you knew qu. And you're like, yeah, Spider man meme.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

But then.

[C]

And the other experience. I think this is gonna sound so dumb, emotionally. I was laying puss. Like, I was everybody's.

[A]

You're right. That does sound really fucking stupid. No.

[C]

I'm pretty lesbian, though. I'm talking about yearning. Everybody's boyfriend, of course. Out kissing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, everybody was like, oh, yeah, that. And honestly, my audiobook that I wrote is very much about that experience in my life of. I can't tell you how many best friends I've had who have at some point said to me, I wish you were a boy. Which, by the way, I need to be like, guess what?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, seven years ago.

[C]

Yeah, there's definitely a movie in there somewhere.

[A]

Yes, absolutely.

[C]

Guess what? But I always felt like a boyfriend, a significant other to all of these people, and I knew that I was significant. And the painful part came from not getting to have that public display of affection.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that public, like, even just holding hands and stuff. And that's why I even think. I don't know if it's just so much of my idea of, like, the happily ever after is the Pride and Prejudice. One kiss. Heated rivalry is wild for me to watch. Gay men are on this whole different fucking level. First of all, they're outside queer women. The other hard part for me is, like, now that I'm queer and. And male, but I'm trans, I have gay CIS male friends who are like, hey, let's go out. Let's be in the club. And I'm like, I don't know how to be in the club.

[A]

They're built different. Gay men are built different. And I grew up. You can't apply exclusively around gay men. Most of my best friends to this day are gay men. They are in every way built different.

[C]

They. I don't know if it's because their shorts are so short and tight that it just, like, squeezes all the energy.

[A]

Cutting off the circulation. Yeah. They're built completely different. And it's scary to me, even if.

[C]

Your family had had lesbians in Miami that were. They're not gonna be out. They're, like, inside. One of my friends, one of my best friends, Amanda, was like, I want to have a lesbian club called Apartment. And it's an apartment, but it's a.

[A]

Club, but more couch. But it's like, a lot of couches.

[C]

A lot of talking, decompression tv.

[B]

People are realizing it's like, you just have to do. Because I know you're desperate to have these lesbian bars. I know we want the lesbian bars because there are, of course, lesbians who want that. But I think now I'm seeing a huge influx of, like, lesbian bookstores. And they're blowing up.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. Because that's what the lesbians are doing.

[A]

Their home sandwich shop.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. I want a lesbian trinket trove. Come on. Yes, please.

[A]

Come on.

[C]

Or like a craft exchange. Yes.

[A]

Oh, yeah. A clothing swap.

[B]

We can't try to be like them.

[C]

The same is happening with trans men. There's like a lot of move. The younger trans men are like real hot and real, like. Like I had to be a judge at. Not had to. I got to be a judge. I got to be a judge at a pole dancing. Like a trans man pole dancing thing. And they told me that it started at 10 and it ended at 2 3rd or it ended at 4, but I only had to stay till. And I.

[A]

So they're skewing. They're skewing cis gay man.

[C]

And I was like, where's the trans man knitting? Or where's the trans man? Like, let's watch super cuts of Supergirl.

[A]

But it's because they're coming out so young, so they don't have to out before.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

They become trans men so they don't have that experience now. They're just like so early perceived as.

[C]

As men, men.

[A]

And a lot of them as gay men or queer men. It's like they're just going. They're going full pedals. The metal gay man. And I love that for them. But it is very different.

[C]

Some of them are very. You can see them. I. I can see the younger trans men who are just. Who transition and are immediately attractive and feel. And I'm happy for them because they feel good in their body. Sure. But they become little shitheads, of course. Because that's what happens when you're hot early. And this is whether you're cis. Whatever. Late bloomers do not like. I think anyone who's a late bloomer has. If you. If you ever meet someone that you're like, you're hot, why are you funny? Why do you have a personality? Why do you. Whatever you're like, like, what were you liking?

[A]

Ugly kid.

[C]

Yeah, ugly kid.

[A]

Fat kid.

[C]

Fat kid. Ugly kid. Weird kid.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Like, talk too much. Neurodivergent in some way. Absolutely. Like, those are my favorite people. And I think late bloomers don't get enough. It's really scary when you're a late bloomer to try and get into the dating world. Because especially in the beginning when I was like a baby gay, there's so many women who are like, I won't date a baby gay.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And then you're like, how am I gonna get my. It's like when you try and get a job out of college and they're like, you need five years experience. Experience. You're like, how am I gonna get that?

[A]

Like being a pilot, you're like, I gotta clock into hours. You know, I can't fly a plane until I've done enough hours.

[C]

Yes. Because, you know, kind of teaching hours or something.

[B]

No, that's a good game. You see, now we start, we have a game and then a college we could start.

[C]

Yeah, I love it. Is it. I'm. I'm down for 2026 to be the cult year. I think that's joining a cult. No, no, no, I think we're starting.

[A]

Starting a cult.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, you and I are starting a cult.

[C]

I'll join it.

[B]

I'm much more of a joiner, much more of a follower.

[C]

But actually you kind of the brains. You came up with the idea. Thank you.

[B]

But see, it's easy to take it from me. I would have immediately forgotten.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, oh, I guess I did. Yeah.

[C]

Happy life. Happy life.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I'm like grateful that I was a late bloomer. I think I. Because I was a really late bloomer and I value it a lot. I think there's of course, moments when I'll see these lesbians going to prom.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Where I'm like, knife to the heart a little bit. Where I'm like, I'm so happy with that. Like, I immediately am sobbing.

[C]

But.

[B]

But I think it gave me so much time to invest in. I always say that I was like having sex with improv basically in high school. Like, that's who I dated. Like the amount all my sexual energy went into my improv team. And it was scary. And people were like, calm down.

[C]

That's the theater kid energy. That's horny as fuck.

[B]

Yes. And I cared. I cared so much. And I was like making. I was horrible in school, but I would make like these films for my classes show. And it's. It's like that was cuz I was not, like, I was not dating. I was not thinking about dating. I had so much brain energy. And I think it was the biggest transition for me was like when my friends stopped playing Pretend. That was like really hard on me as a kid.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Because I was like 15 and I would be like, let's play. I remember I always wanted to play Hunger Games, which first of all, I'm like, I think I was trying to wrestle one of my friends to the ground or something. Like, why did I want to play that? But I was like, let's play Hunger Games. And they all started kind of being like, no. Like, you're giving hand jobs. Yeah.

[C]

Yes. I related episodes where they're not. They can't play. Play with the toys anymore. And it's like, what are we supposed to do?

[B]

And I think I found.

[C]

Which I think is interesting, become an actor.

[B]

So many. I mean, literally. And so many queer people I know now. And I haven't. I've yet to start this journey, but. Oh, it's on the horizon of like LARPing and cosplay and all of this stuff. That is what part of us. But maybe it's because we were allowed to like, indulge in that later that we still are like, yeah, playing pretend. It's not a part of childhood. It could be a part of your entire life. And so I really valued. I'm glad that I wasn't sucking and fucking in high school because it gave me so much time to be like, who am I and what do I love? And I'm creative. And then now I can. It took what, five years to figure it out. I had a couple. Five years of really embarrassing dating.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Where I was clearly new to it. Did some pretty embarrassing things sexually. But then it's like, hey, we. It's over now.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And, hey, you were sucking. And in high school, there was nothing wrong with you either. Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We're here and we're proud. Okay. We got a lot of fucking. I was in elementary school. Yeah.

[C]

Because you were bisexual.

[A]

Starting extremely early. Yeah.

[C]

12 year old.

[A]

Yes. So I was ultimately sucking and at a very young age.

[C]

I went to seven Alley and AJ concerts in my junior and senior year. And I.

[A]

And I respect that.

[C]

Yeah. And I ran the message boards.

[A]

I love that. I respect that. But I, you know, I also, in a different way, got to find out a lot about myself. So, you know, if you were also sucking early, that's okay.

[C]

What age did you. Did y' all bloom at? Can I ask? What do you think?

[B]

I think this year. Yeah.

[C]

I literally think this year.

[B]

Seriously, I really do. I think this was my year. I think I. This last year, like an adult. I was like, okay, yes. I feel like. Feel like confident in who I am. I've. I'm. This is the type of, I think even things around. I mean, my style. I got a breast reduction and then was like, oh.

[A]

I really.

[B]

When I came out my breast reduction. No, I really got close. I was. I was like deciding between doing like full top surgery. I basically, I asked for which Jordan thinks this is gross when I say this. Asked for a whisper of a Breast.

[C]

I love it.

[B]

And he gave it to me.

[C]

Funny. Yeah.

[A]

And after whisper of a breast, it just feels weird saying it to a doctor.

[B]

It was the most.

[C]

The best way I could. Just. That's the way that, you know, your doctor's creative.

[B]

Sure. Yes.

[A]

An artist.

[C]

You're like, I'm not telling you cc's. I want to whisper. Yeah, I know exactly what that is.

[B]

And when I. I feel like when I recovered and went on my first outing to that bar where New Girl was filmed at, I remember where it was. I remember being like, this is it. Like, this is who I am. I feel so. And I don't know why. I think it just initiated a domino effect of other things that me feel good. But I think I used to identify as like, an extrovert, and now I've slowly been just become.

[A]

Really extrovert how.

[B]

Many people I talk to. And yeah, I feel like this year is my bl. My big bloom year. I lost my virginity at 19, but.

[C]

I thought you were, say, this year, you guys, this morning, we waited a.

[A]

Really long time just to make sure it was right. I.

[C]

And how. Wait, how old are you?

[B]

I'm 26.

[C]

26. Okay.

[A]

I bloomed very young. I got my period when I was 10. I was 5, 6, 5, 7, maybe starting in the first grade. I was a giant. And I've always been exactly like this.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I dress very. So I mean, obviously things get like, you know, tailored and refined and whatnot. But the. I've had a lot of the same interests my whole life. I've dressed similarly my whole life. I've had bangs my whole life minus, like one year in, like 2021.

[B]

Think about is you've had the same interest because I think I look at pictures of you when you were 12, and it's. It's just you refined now. It's like, that's so you still versus. I feel like I've gone through 90 people that I've been over the years, and then I finally feel like, oh, this is it. But I feel like that's a great way to think of it.

[A]

Well, I just feel like I looked so much older than I was all of my adolescence, which I think really informs the way people treat you and what's expected of you and things like that.

[C]

You said you're an only.

[A]

I'm an only child.

[C]

So you learned to talk to adults.

[A]

Yes. So I was around a lot of adults, a lot of gay men.

[B]

That'll.

[A]

That'll give you a lot of drag attitude. Yeah, you'd see, like, a lot of my favorite movies. The Birdcage, essentially, my favorite movie since I was a child has been Crybaby, which is a John Waters movie. Like, I've always loved that movie. And one of the first movies I remember seeing was Rocky Horror Picture show at a gay Halloween party that I was certainly the only child at on South Beach. So it just like. Yeah, I feel like those things informed me very early on. But I think also. Also, like, my parents are very much themselves and have been the way that they are since the dawn of time. So I think I also saw that modeled for me a lot and was kind of just like, oh, yeah, this.

[C]

Is like, you know, when did you bloom, though? When did you. Because, like, that's puberty of. You were 10, but when did you feel. Did you immediately from the time you were 10, feel like I'm myself kind of. Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing, because when I think about it, there's. And once again, many different iterations and lots of different, like, things and ups and downs. Like, times where I'm like, well, actually, maybe I'm totally different or maybe I'm not. But in general, I think I've felt very secure in who I was my whole life. I mean, I've told this story before, but as an example, I, when I was younger, got bullied, and kids would call me Shamu. And one day a teacher was like, I'm going to tell them to stop doing that, because that's really mean. And I was like, why is it mean? And she was like, well, they're saying that because you're fat. And I was like, I thought they were saying that because I'm extremely good at swimming. So I've always been very confident. That is so in myself.

[C]

That is just so smart energy.

[A]

I've just always been very like, this is the way I'm.

[B]

But you still have the same friends. You have a lot of the same friends from when you were in high school. You have a lot of new friends, of course. But I think that's telling because it's.

[C]

Like, you still your essence.

[B]

You connect to the same people still.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You feel like you had a double bloom.

[C]

Oh, I. Yeah. Triple. Yes. My fur. And they coincided with my coming out. My. When I was 23, I came out on National Coming Out Day to my friends at BuzzFeed.

[B]

Some reason I thought you're gonna say national TV. And I was like, what was that?

[C]

I went on Ellen, why were you.

[A]

Like, I'm coming out on National Coming Out Day or Was it a coincidence?

[C]

No, it. Well, I had been thinking about it, and then it was National Coming Out Day, and they were both. One was gay and one was bi. And I was like, this is as good. But it was the fact that I felt the need. That's why I love Nashville Coming Out Day. And I. And it will always have a place in my heart because I think, again, you forget how scary it is. And so every year before I came out, seeing people support National Coming Out Day made me feel like. And people in my life who weren't directly supporting me made me feel like there was a place or a world I could come out to. And so when I came out to my friends, it was so funny, because one of my friends, Heaven, was just like, yeah, I mean, I assume everybody's gay until they tell me otherwise.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

But it was so nonchalant. And that was the beginning of my bloom. Like, my coinciding of. You know, that was a good year's BuzzFeed, like, 2012 to 2016, where, like, we were just on the Internet and. And getting to know ourselves and, like, making all this content. And there was one part of that that was real or. But then now I can see how much the gender was still a part of it, and I still wasn't. I just didn't feel like I was good at being a woman. It was just drag. Like, now I know it's drag. Like, I was really good at doing drag, basically, and not that. And the weirder thing, I think now.

[A]

Is to look back.

[C]

I hated myself. I hated the way I looked. I hated so much about me. And now I look back and I'm objectively like, oh, I was so cute.

[A]

Extremely. Yeah.

[C]

I was so pretty and so cute. And I would like.

[B]

But does it feel like you're looking at, like, your niece? Like, it's just like a. Oh, you look cute.

[A]

Beautiful. Yeah.

[C]

But that's where I'm like, oh, it was not objective. Yes. It was subjective. And I also didn't understand when people are like, but you look great. And I'm like, no, no, I don't feel great.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So that's kind of the, like. So my second bloom was after coming out. I would say it's been about two years since I've been on testosterone now, and I'm starting to really, like, feel in my body. And even, like, it's changed. First you have the fat displacement that changes, and you don't have hips as much anymore. And then your shoulder's broad. Mine shoulders have always been broad. But then something that was, was like really affirming was. Even now as I'm gaining weight, gaining weight as a man, it's in different parts of my body and I'm like, oh, I can age in this body and look different. Like I'm also accepting now that my body is changing in that it's aging, but it's a different process. So like I, I also feel like the last two years has been my second bloom. But it's this year. This energy. Energy.

[B]

No, it's this year.

[C]

It's this year.

[A]

It's this year.

[C]

It's the year of the horse.

[B]

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[A]

Right, let's get into some questions. Our listeners wrote in they want to know things from you. Okay, this person says I'm about to turn 30 and have never dated for a long time. I was completely closed off to the idea of dating, relationships, etc. After a lot of and self growth I realized that I'm not only open to the idea of dating and having a relationship but that I'm also queer. My question is basically how should I start to approach the start of dating and meeting new people when I not only don't have experience in queer dating but also experience in just dating in general? I can't help but feeling I'm behind everyone else.

[C]

Oh, I love this. I love you, whoever you are. I really do. The A, you're not behind. It's okay to be. To be new to things. It's okay to be new to things. Maybe this is my Mr. Rogers moment. It's okay to be new. New to things. And it's okay to. What you've been doing is the right thing. Getting to know yourself, getting to know what it is about you that you love. And you should be proud of yourself that you've even arrived at this point, that you now see this as something that you want and you think of it like anything else. Like, if you were swimming, you wouldn't go to the Olympics immediately. You would, like, learn to paddle. You would learn to not freak out in certain situations. And I think a big thing that I had to realize about dating is that dating is statistics. Like, the more you put yourself out there, the more you learn what you like and what you don't like. The idea. Something that really destroyed, I think, a lot of early dating experiences for me was the. This because of all the yearning and all the, you know, I had this very be all end all that. Everything had to be perfect, and it had to lead somewhere. And there's so many people that I wish I had dated for just a few months casually.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And not been, like, heartbroken by or so dramatic over. And just like, it's okay to like someone a little and be like, actually, I don't. This isn't great for me. And the thing is, if you're honest, they'll probably be honest back and be like, I'm not feeling it either. But some of those people will end up being your friends.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Like, that's the great thing about queerness. A lot of these people are gonna end up being your friends.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And if you heard, I think some of them might end badly. But I think that's something I constantly am saying to my friends where it's like, but what if I. I don't want to hurt their feelings. I don't want to this. And it's like, it's not a big deal. Like, my feelings, I've been made sad by many people. I don't hold it against them in dating especially. But I think being queer, it's kind of convenient. Convenient to start dating at 30 and then realize you're queer because I think you're in a really big group of people who are similarly like, oh, I'm kind of dating for the first time too. Yeah, because in the grand scheme of things, it's like, I don't know. What you've done in therapy is already. The hard work that most people are behind on learning to like, kiss and date etiquette is like, look it up on tick tock the night before. It's not going to take you that long to figure it out.

[C]

That is so true. It's like learning all the, the what actually makes a relationship work is all the therapy stuff and all the getting to know yourself and learning how to communicate with someone else, that's really what makes a relationship work. All the other stuff is just like the icing on top. I would say logistically, a way to get into it is like, just be yourself and do the things that you love and you'll find people who are similar. Like, I love people who I, I think really you either have to meet online or in some kind of group thing. Like, yeah, you know, even with work, we're not all in the same building very much anymore. But like, I know tons of people who have like joined rock climbing groups or joined like, you know, just be yourself and then. But be open to the idea and.

[B]

There'S a group for everything now. I really find I really want to join some type of group this year because I'm like, I'll go to these, like, these lesbian bookstores and they'll be like, like, oh, we have a fantasy Sapphic fantasy book club.

[A]

I'm like, it's an hour long circle jerk every Wednesday night. It's a beautiful experience.

[C]

It's wild.

[B]

I'm like, they got a group for everything. You could get a group for literally anything that's so specific. And then it's not only are you with people where it's like, oh, we generally like being active. It's like, it's so specific.

[C]

You can info dump and not feel weird. You're just with your people.

[A]

I also think it's really important to remember that just because you haven't dated or been out as a queer person or maybe had a lot of sexual experiences doesn't mean you don't have like the fattest, juiciest snatch in all of America. So I think that's something important to remember.

[B]

Well, I also think, honestly, I have. Weirdly, I feel like in the last year talked to so many people in their 30s who are like, I've never dated someone. Like, I've never been in, I've, you know, gone on days, but I've never been with someone. And I think each of those people feel like they are the only person on earth like that. And they're like, I've, I'm. I'm an anomaly. Like, this is insane. And it really is.

[A]

They all need to get in a Facebook group together.

[C]

Yeah, well, I think a lot of.

[B]

Them of like really advancing careers and really other things. Not that you have to, to be in that scenario, but I think a lot of people, it's like, hey, you pick and choose. It's a lot of what 2026 is going to be. It's like you can't have it all. You got to pick and choose. You can't be beating yourself up because you don't have everything. If you want to start dating, maybe you have to take less time for this or this. And you know, it all takes time.

[C]

Some of us were married to improv when we were children.

[B]

It was more than married.

[A]

A child who was ride of improv driven relationship. Okay, this person wants to know and they preface it by saying, sorry if it's too forward, but they want to know. How do you handle intimacy while transitioning? Especially assuming there's any amount of dysphoria.

[C]

Oh yeah, that's good. This is another. I mean, really all relationships are just about communication. Sex, good sex is about communication. The idea that two bodies meld into each other and immediately know what the other wants just by feeling. It's like, we're not aliens in Pandora. Like, you don't attach to someone's tentacles and like get their thoughts. That'd be cool. But wait a minute. Like, I think good sex, especially when transitioning around and when there's dysphoria, is just talking and talking leading up to it. I think a lot of the times you kind of have to have like a safe word for in that moment, like, oh, that doesn't feel great or whatever. But you don't need to talk about it right away too, because there's nothing that's going to like ruin the vibe. But I think afterward it's always okay to bring up like, and this is probably the lesbian in me. It's always okay to debrief.

[A]

You gotta have a debrief.

[C]

You gotta like. But it's, I think it's totally okay sexually in the same way that like, that we do anything to be like.

[A]

Hey, how was that for you?

[C]

Did you like when I called your body part this, do you want me to call it someone, something else? And like someone who loves you is going to be open to that and.

[B]

View it as like, even if in the moment it's like, oh, don't do that, do this. Taking it as, like, an exciting thing of like, oh, now I know that instead of like, oh, my God, I've done bad.

[A]

Sorry, sorry. Yeah. I also think on the other side of that, obviously, I haven't transitioned, but I am someone who's been many different weights over the course of my life. So my body has looked different at a lot of points. And I'm just saying that because I think that everyone has something that they're thinking about with their own body. Everyone has things they like, don't like, things that are going to make them feel good or bad that maybe they already know or realize in that moment. And I think something that could potentially maybe feel freeing is that while the trans experience is unique, it's not totally isolated to trans people in. In the way of, like, maybe not 100% feeling certain of your body or how it's going to move through intimacy.

[C]

That's a good point.

[A]

In that moment, that's.

[C]

Everybody has to learn how to have good sex. It's not just because you're weird and you're trans and you have to, oh, here's this other thing that I have to learn. Like, yeah, I think a lot of transitioning once I got away from that, of like, oh, this is just an experience I get to have. And it's. There are similar human experiences. It's not specifically just me being trans. And honestly, me being trans and being open about it opens up the space for CIS people to talk about this stuff. It's like, yeah, yeah, like, that total sex is about preferences. Also, like, you know, if. Imagine how. What it would be like if Prince William could just be like, yeah, I like to be pegged.

[A]

We'd be in a different world.

[B]

Well, and it's so specific. I was listening to this podcast the other day about micro tropes in romance novels.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[B]

And I was loving it because it was like, talking about how, you know, tropes are. So we've. Especially now when you read any advertisement for a book, it's like tropes, the only one bed, and this and this, and they become so. So, like, that's how you decide what books to read. But micro tropes are kind of what the tropes used to be, which is like, just a weird thing that, like, you go, oh, I really like that. And they can be. And I was actually thinking when you were talking about your glasses, because one of them, the woman, was like, I like when characters wear dark glasses, and it's like, cool.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Or like, I like when people eat ice cream together. And it's just a thing that when you're reading or you're watching a play or a movie, and you. You're like, ooh, that, like, really kind of, like, did it for me for some reason.

[A]

And again, a lot of times, you're not born knowing that you're not born being like, ooh, like, when I watch this thing, it's gonna, like, get me just right. But you have to experience it over time. And I think all of, like, what we're talking about is just to say that, like, everybody is doing that. And obviously it's specific and sometimes can be harder because of the trans experience. But at the same time, it's like your partner also might be feeling.

[C]

Like.

[A]

They don't know about their body or they're confused or they're having thoughts that maybe they haven't had before or, like, whatever, like, once again, all over a spectrum. So I think that can be a great way to relate to other people rather than letting it feel like something that isolates you and you don't know.

[B]

Because it's like, how could you know these things about someone else? And I literally never. I guess this would be a micro trope I enjoyed.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I will never forget when I watched season two of Bridgerton.

[C]

You watched and.

[B]

And Jonathan Bailey sniffs his love interest.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Huh.

[B]

And I, for some reason, was like, my brain has changed after watching. I'm.

[A]

We heard a lot about that during that time. We heard a lot about the scene.

[B]

I'm not a viewer of heterosexual.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Media.

[B]

To be honest.

[C]

Well, I mean that we. Jonathan Bailey brings a certain.

[A]

To all of us.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, it's very different. And I'm, like, waiting for Jordan to sniff me like that. And I'm not.

[A]

It's not the same. I already know what you smell like. We're wearing the same perfume. That's what's hard, you know, mean, I. What.

[B]

He's not sniffing to know what she smells like.

[C]

He's.

[B]

It's something animalistic.

[C]

It's the hand thing in Pride and Prejudice. It's. It's all those micro. I love that. I just saw an interview with Rosalia where she was talking about. She's like, I don't like men's feet, but I like women's feet. And she's like, but I love when men wear socks in their house to answer the door because. How cute is that? How cute. That's. Sure.

[A]

It's a big why. But Absolutely. I completely get what she's saying.

[C]

Yeah. I've been telling my. It's been interesting with my girlfriend who has been predominantly in heterosexual relationships with CIS men, teaching her about what's sexy to gay people. Or I'm like, she wears, if she wears sweatpants or like starts looking real gay. I'm like so into it. And she's like this. Yeah. Like she's always, I'm like, oh, your bun looks great right now. And she's like, what? Like. And I'm like, no. Because it's not just this, this heterosexual patriarchal version of like, you know, Rachel Lee Cook comes down the stairs wearing a skin tight dress. It's like, no, put on the overalls.

[B]

Why do I keep seeking out books about mechanics? Like it's the same. It's like, I don't want to. I want to watch you ready to use your hands.

[C]

Okay. I want to join whatever book club you're going to.

[B]

It's just me.

[C]

It'll just be the two of us.

[A]

I think you guys would have a lot of fun doing that. This person wants advice on your first breakup as a late bloomer. They say they're 25 and recently had their first relationship.

[B]

Embarrassing thing I ever went through.

[A]

Yeah, it lasted a bit under a year and they were really seeing a future with this person. They think it's overall a good thing that they broke up, but they miss being in a relationship and they miss the future that they were imagining. They don't know how to process the breakup without acting like a teenager since they're an adult and they want to know how to let themselves feel the feelings while being a mature adult job.

[B]

You just have to go, I'm going to be embarrassed about this later. I remember my mom, that was her main fear, she always tells me was like, I you because you hadn't dated anyone in high school and I just knew you were going to go off to college and you're going to date someone and you're going to get your heart broken and you're going to be stuck in New York City across the country for me and you were going to be a wreck. And it's like that's exactly what happened. And I was almost got fired from my job because I was crying at work. I was drunk calling my ex. I mean it's literally horrible. Like 50 times like police, like horrible. So embarrassing. And I think at 16 it's like I wouldn't even think about it. But I did that at 20. Yes, I. So embarrassing.

[A]

And there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with getting a large blizzard and sitting in the Dairy Queen parking lot and listening to Transatlanticism by Death Cab for Cutie on repeat and crying so hard that, like, children are telling their parents that you're crying in the car. There's nothing wrong with that. Everyone's done it at some point. Do you know what I mean? Literally everyone's done it.

[C]

No, I think that is so true of, like, straight people. CIS people. The thing that I get jealous of sometimes is that they got to do this when they were 15, 16 and be embarrassing and write poems and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, yeah, you're writing poems as a 30 year old, but that's fine. Like, it's okay. You have every right to that experience just as much as a CIS straight person does, just because you weren't allowed to societally have it. Like the thing that you were saying earlier about playing pretend that I think continues with this, is that we didn't get to act out even just saying who you had a crush on.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Or even pretend to have a crush on the person you actually had a crush on. Even our celebrity crushes. Yeah. Even a celebrity crush.

[B]

My pillowcase had Andrew Garfield's face on it.

[C]

Yeah. Josh Hartnett, like, all over. But it's like, really? I wanted to be like, I love Kate Beckinsale in. In Pearl harbor, but I couldn't say that.

[A]

Thought you were gonna say underworld. Pearl harbor is a very funny one.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I was way into, too into Pearl harbor and my parents are like, are you okay? Yeah. And it's like just a rom com to me. It's like Titanic. It's not a horrifying event. It's just a rom com.

[B]

Well, I think it too, like, even I always got things that embarrass it. Not much embarrasses me from when I was a teenager because I'm like, when I was a teenager, who cares? But I talked like Miranda Sings for like two years straight. Like, I'm not even kidding. It was like, that's like the worst thing I've ever heard in my life.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then before that, in elementary, going into middle school, I had this like, squirrel Persona I would play. Horrifying.

[A]

And what was the squirrel's name?

[B]

Nutty, of course, wasn't even that creative. I just, I kept it simple. But I think as I grew up, because I. I feel so disconnected from who that person was, like, what was happening. But I think I felt so, like, not in my body at all. And so, like, well, I can't. Like, even if it's subconscious, you're like, I know that you can't know me too well. So let me just.

[C]

Like, I'll be a squirrel.

[B]

I'll be a squirrel instead. He was a gay Nutty.

[A]

Sure. For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It wasn't me, but this isn't me.

[C]

It's nutty.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And he's crazy.

[B]

He's not a nutty. But it's like, you're so. And I like, look. And I have a friend, one of my friends, Fallon, who knew me in my Miranda Sings era. I think it's so funny when we talk now because I'm just like. I mean, very sweet that she's still friends with me because that was a horrifying thing to witness.

[C]

But I almost.

[B]

I'm like, was someone like, hey, you're having, I think, a mental breakdown or something, But I just really couldn't show who I was. And I think it just. It just reminded me of that going into, like, playing pretend and just being like, well, I have to pretend everything. So where does that line get drawn? And I'll just be a squirrel.

[C]

And I think good friends see that and allow you. It's nice to have friends over a long period of time who. You can ask that or. I, like, I found that I'm so much harder on myself than people were on me where I'm like, God, was it so embarrassing to be around? And they're like, no, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, no. I have the same affection for you that, I mean, yeah, maybe you were a little more.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But, like, so was I. I was 20.

[A]

I was 18.

[C]

I was. And it's like, oh, yeah. I forget that, like, you can also have compassion for yourself. Yes. So wait, there was one part that I wanted to answer of that they said, how do I process the feelings without seeming like.

[A]

Seeming like a teenage. Like, as an adult, he still has to have a job. My impulse is to say, a nice thing about being an adult is you can also lie. Like, if you're crying at work and someone's like, why are you crying? You can be like, my parents went into bankruptcy and now they're both going to have to move into me, and I'm going to be financially responsible for both my parents. And then they'll just be like, whoa, that's hard. Let me know if you need anything. Versus being like, I went on three dates with this girl and her hair smelled like apricots. And I'll Never see her again. It's like you're, you know, your boss.

[C]

Had a magical moment.

[A]

Be like too much. But, you know, you could share a real world adult thing that's just fake and that's fine. Also just.

[C]

I recently just rewatched Bridget Jones's Diary and this is probably the most perfect for a late bloomer. Bridget. Doesn't she just watch it and do what she does?

[B]

Yeah, she nails it.

[A]

Bridget.

[B]

God, we have the same interest in media.

[C]

Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. We have to be in a book.

[B]

Connect on that.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. Because I think also go hard now with it because then you can just be chill after, like have a year of being embarrassing. And I've said this before, but I. It really changed my life when I was going through my first breakup. That was so dramatic. We'd been together maybe three months and they the whole time kept telling me, well, after I'm done with this, I'll marry a man. And I didn't. I still was like, we'll get married and have children together. But I literally felt like I was dying. And I remember my friend being like, that's because your body's never experienced this. So it like literally is like, thinks you're dying. It's like you, your body is processing it like a death. And that's what it felt like. I have never. And I love Jordan more than anything in the world, but I do not think if Jordan cheated on me, yeah, I would cry the way I did on my first breakup of someone. It was like on the road.

[C]

Literally.

[B]

Just so dramatic and like. But then my next breakup, I remember I was so much more into this person.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We had been together so much longer. It was so much more serious. And I had the most normal cries and then I moved on. And it was because you had to just go through it. Breakfast, feel, stifle it. Cuz then you're going to do it a bunch.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I think this has been a wonderful episode. If I made two on horns, we had. I can't really.

[B]

For dinner.

[A]

I would love for dinner. Yeah, we got.

[C]

Can I give you guys my little gift? So my 2026, I did the like 13 magical nights thing. Did you guys see that? There was this witch from Glasgow who was like, on the night of the solstice, you write 13 intentions, burn one every night. And then on January 2nd, you. You get like, the universe takes care of the rest. And this is the one the universe wants you to focus on.

[B]

But you don't know what?

[C]

You don't know which one you're burning. So my last one. Oh, that got me chills. I know you can still do it. The one that I did was that I got. Was lean into whimsy. And I feel like I'm returning to myself and to my whimsical self. So this is a very me but graduated thing. So pick one of these, and the universe will take. Tell you something that you need to know.

[B]

I love them together.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Your crazy ideas.

[B]

I'm so horny for stuff like this. This is like my everything.

[C]

Okay. Shall we open them to. So you put your thumb right here and then you press it open. It's so satisfying. I love perforated paper.

[B]

I know this is going to be the type of thing I can't figure out.

[C]

Oh, push there. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Oh, I like mine.

[C]

Yeah, me too. What'd you get? Who wants to go first?

[A]

Never be limited by other people's imagination.

[B]

What does that mean?

[A]

Like, I'm gonna sit with it. I'm gonna find out.

[C]

Oh, I think it's like you. Other people are gonna try and put limits on you Set your own point. The limit does not exist.

[A]

I think this is good for me because I think, you know, I've been putting a lot of creative and professional eggs in a lot of different baskets, and not all those baskets are my own basket. I think it's time to put some eggs in my own basket.

[C]

Love it.

[B]

Okay, what's this?

[C]

I have what makes you different or weird. That's your strength, Meryl Streep.

[B]

How do I get involved in being on one of these cars? Seriously?

[A]

I want my clothes.

[B]

That's amazing. And I feel like gives into your whimsy kind of goes into that.

[A]

That's beautiful.

[B]

Mine is never say no to yourself.

[A]

Okay. She doesn't have a problem with that. I'll tell you that right now.

[C]

The universe is killing.

[A]

She's going to make me buy her a horse after we leave here. I can't say no to myself.

[C]

I mean, trust your creator.

[B]

And I can keep this.

[A]

This is fun.

[C]

I can keep.

[A]

This is so sweet. Thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you all for me having.

[A]

Well, of course. Okay, well, let the people know where they can find you, because they're gonna want more of you after this.

[C]

Yes. Okay, let's see. The most easy way to go is I have a website, ashperez.com that has links to all of it. But the biggest thing I'm excited about is please. March 31st, my first audiobook called Speak now is coming out. What would you do for a second chance at your first love?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

When did you start writing this?

[C]

Like, two and a half years ago. It's my dream. I've always wanted, since I got into Hollywood. I always said I wanted to be the queer Nora Ephro, and I kind of dropped that along the way because I thought that rom coms weren't serious. Like, people didn't take them seriously. But I take them seriously.

[B]

I take them very seriously.

[C]

So, yeah.

[A]

Great. And we'll be reposting that when it comes out. So we'll be reminding everyone when it comes out, so you can go buy it. It sounds incredible. We're going to be listening to it. I simply can't wait.

[B]

Can we preorder it or is it.

[C]

Something you can pre order it? That's okay.

[A]

We'll share it with this episode.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Pre order.

[A]

Perfect. So it'll be in the bio of all this. You can go pre order it. And I do have to let everyone at home. And also, you know that we're doing a new thing season where it involves you. We're doing a bracket.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Where we are determining who will be our ultimate third in our imaginary throuple. So every single guest on the podcast gets added to the bracket.

[C]

But can I, like, plead my case? Sure. Yes.

[B]

Please.

[C]

Okay, here's.

[B]

But we're taking it really seriously. We're taking into account our lifestyle, taking big.

[C]

Yes. No, I know.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I know.

[A]

We're listening.

[C]

All right. I feel like I need to appeal separately and then to the group.

[A]

Good.

[C]

We have shared interests. Like, we. Kendall and I have enough shared interests that, like, we can, like, do book club stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But then intellectually, I feel like I understand you, Jordan, and I. I also love people with opinions that just want to tell me their opinions. And. And I love to. To think about that stuff and challenge it. So I think even this conversation is, like, intellectually, you know, remember, again, emotionally, a boyfriend is. Is my vibe. But also, I'm getting stronger. I can physically lift things.

[A]

That's good.

[C]

Yeah. That I couldn't afford. And I. I will fully do bugs, trash, any of those kind of man things.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

That you need. But I. But I am not a cyst man, so I will not, not ever impose that. No.

[A]

Can you build?

[C]

I'm starting. I'm not the most crafty, but you.

[B]

Could take a class.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And you would.

[C]

And I would. I would.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's good for y'.

[B]

All.

[C]

Yeah. That's yeah. And also, if you ever just want to go somewhere but not be bothered, but also not be bothered by me, I can just be the man next to you so that people don't bother you.

[B]

Oh, my God. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, this. That's nice. You didn't.

[B]

I. I was already thinking, because I knew that we were doing the segment. I was like, I think it would be very compatible. Yes.

[A]

And I like the fact that you just wanted to pitch yourself. I think that's extremely confident.

[B]

We would like.

[A]

Confident. Charming.

[C]

We both.

[A]

Yeah. We do have animal.

[B]

Do you have an animal?

[C]

I have three cats.

[B]

Okay. That's. That. We do have to take that into cat. Our dog does not like, but she's.

[C]

Old, so the thing is, I can also be whatever. I think a good third should be what the primary couple needs so I don't have to live and move in and my cats take your space. I can.

[B]

You just take the trash out.

[A]

Leave.

[B]

No more sh.

[C]

I can be the emotional and physical husband who comes over, does what you guys need, and then when it's time to go, then I leave.

[A]

I like that. This is very compelling and it's going to be hard to beat. Ultimately, you're the very first person on the bracket, which is super exciting. We will be making a digital version of this bracket, so be able to check it anytime. Ashes first. We have not yet announced our next guest. So you don't know who you're up against.

[C]

My God.

[A]

But I'm excited. I think this is going to. I think this is going to be good.

[C]

Can you bring us back when we get to the top? And then I think we might have. We'll have to have the guest because I would like the chance to debate against someone else.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe kind of like a shirtless fight or something. I don't know. A wrestle.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, we'll figure something out.

[C]

Exactly. Okay. That gives me workout goals.

[A]

Perfect.

[C]

Is there anything you guys are looking for in a partner?

[A]

You.

[C]

You. Yeah.

[B]

Truly. I think we're always like, you know, a third. What we've always said is a third. Whenever we've had friends who have thirds who describe the benefits of it, we go. I can. Yes, I see what you're saying, what you're putting down. My problem is always like, where's the time? And like I said, I'm very introverted, so I'm already like, what am I not Another person into my house. But I do love a family unit. I've always had roommates. We don't have roommates anymore. But we did For a long time. And I loved having roommates that kind of just you walk in, you say, oh, hi. You know, tell them about your day. When you're up for chatting is like perfect. But I feel like I don't want. Your personality to me is very calming. Like your presence is very calming. I didn't feel like I had to like this. Felt like we were just chatting. It's very comfort.

[C]

You want emotional maturity. If you're adding a third, nobody has time for more fighting and more discussing. So it's just kind of like, like, hey, what's going on? What do you need? What do I need? What are we getting out of this?

[B]

Yeah. And I've always said if I ever had a child, that's when I would be like, we should get a third. But then people are like, that's just a nanny. But I'm like, when people are have three parents to one kid, I say that.

[A]

I think it's good.

[C]

That sounds great. Forever. I think that's when you go full rhombus. Yes.

[A]

There's eight of you. You're raising one child. I agree with that as well.

[B]

Thank you all so much for listening and thank you so much for being here. Truly such a delight. If you are listening on anywhere you get your podcast, please make sure to rate and review us. It really helps us out. Follow us on Instagram. What's the other one? TikTok YouTube media that you can comment down below. We're so excited for this new season. Second episode was such a treat. We have so many more guests.

[A]

Really exciting. And we have a bunch of new stuff on our Patreon. So go join our Patreon.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Thank you all so much.

[C]

Bye bye. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host and endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.