HardLore: Davey Havok Part 2 – “2003-2025: A HardLore Special”

A Deep-Dive with AFI’s Frontman on Mainstream Breakthrough, Creative Pivots, Industry Betrayal, and the Band’s Enduring Core

Podcast: HardLore
Hosts: Colin Young, Bo Lueders (with frequent interjections from David)
Guest: Davey Havok (AFI)
Date: September 25, 2025

Overview

Part two of the expansive sit-down with Davey Havok explores AFI’s journey from their 2003 mainstream breakthrough (Sing the Sorrow) through a turbulent and experimental two decades, culminating in their upcoming 2025 album Silver Bleeds the Black Sun. Davey gives an unflinchingly candid account of industry challenges, major label debacles, the strain on his voice, creative breakthroughs, moments of utter despair, and the enduring relationships that anchor AFI. Hardcore/punk/alt lore and transparency abound, making this episode essential for both devoted fans and those interested in the evolution of heavy music in the 21st century.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sing the Sorrow: Breakthrough & Trauma

(00:00-07:56)

• Sing the Sorrow was AFI’s commercial peak and the only time Davey had to cancel shows, after severely injuring his voice performing songs beyond his range.
  • “It was our breakthrough to the mainstream. …I damaged myself so badly singing songs out of my range.” (Davey, 00:00)
• Davey recounts label issues prior to recording, being “cruelly held” in limbo, and the struggle of considering a major label move.
  • “We were being cruelly held… We never really wanted a manager or major label prior to that general time.” (Davey, 02:31)
• The choice to sign with DreamWorks is discussed, mostly due to the A&R rep Luke Wood rather than any label prestige (“Shrek” jokes aside).
  • “It actually had to do with the A&R guy, Luke, who I’m still very good friends with…” (Davey, 06:35)
• Jerry Finn produced the record with Butch Vig — Finn’s involvement was crucial despite his background in music the band “really didn’t like.”

2. Breaking to the Mainstream & Single Madness

(11:30-15:17)

• The behind-the-scenes of “The Leaving Song Pt. II” video: brought together hardcore scenes nationally, with a massive Mark Webb budget.
  • “Culture was there. Chicago was there. Salt Lake might have been there...” (Davey, 12:01)
• “Girls Not Gray” was the major label’s chosen single, but “Leaving Song Pt. II” took off organically via radio and Madden 03 inclusion—even if Davey was “conflicted” about being part of the game’s world.
  • “I remember I was conflicted about that... I didn’t like all…” (Davey, 15:26)
• Davey remains obsessed with Loveline, loving the opportunity to connect with that culture.
  • “I love doing Loveline. I did it multiple times. It was really fun.” (Davey, 15:43)

3. The Toll of Success: Voice, Regrets, and Recovery

(17:48-21:29)

• The toll of “Singing the Sorrow”: Davey damaged his voice, requiring vocal surgery and realignment of vocal technique and touring practices.
  • “I had to cancel the last 10 shows… I know I’m going on stage and I’m going to be bad and there’s nothing I can do about it, it’s very, very devastating to me.” (Davey, 17:48)
  • “Mine is very fragile… There’s this great book called ‘The Singer’s Talk’—some of these vocalists don’t do a goddamn thing… I do 45 minutes warm-up, steaming, stretching…” (Davey, 19:41)
• Revelations about the stress and pressure of writing and performing, and the need for boundaries:
  • “You will never see me out doing anything… speaking over music, that’s the worst.” (Davey, 21:01)

4. Decemberunderground: Pressure, Label Hell & “Ms. Murder”

(25:23-34:10)

• Following up a huge record with Decemberunderground became a “dark miserable time.” Over 120 songs were demoed, all met with lukewarm reactions by new label overlords Interscope (post-DreamWorks' acquisition).
  • “We demoed like, 18 songs, and that’s when shit got bad… Butch said, ‘I’m out.’” (Davey, 25:48)
• Jimmy Iovine’s indifference (“Rock is dead!”) and label pressures, including a suggested 50 Cent collab just to get attention.
  • “Collaborating with 50 Cent was suggested to me. … Not against 50 Cent, of course. It's just where the vibe was.” (Davey, 30:56)
• The paradox of mainstream success: “Ms. Murder” is their biggest chart hit, but the darkness of the lyrics completely misunderstood.
  • “That was the number one hit that poses the gentle question, should I just kill myself?” (Davey, 33:32)

5. Crash Love: Sudden Obscurity and the Changing Fanbase

(35:21-47:16)

• Crash Love writing was a return to joy, but its release was a commercial flop. The band couldn’t believe the sharp decline in attention (“12,500 tickets once, but suddenly nobody cares”).
  • “That record, December Underground, sold more the first week than [Crash Love] sold in its entirety.” (Davey, 42:01)
• Social/media changes eroded crowds and connection; reality TV and selfie culture overran music’s cultural center.
  • “Crash Love was…social commentary against that aggrandizing of celebrity and malignant behavior.” (Davey, 47:22)
• A striking anecdote: fans at a signing only wanted photos, not to see the band play.
  • “What are you guys doing here? We’re on tour… ‘Oh, no, it’s okay.’ Because what they wanted was a picture.” (Davey, 46:27)

6. Burials: Hitting Rock Bottom and Rebirth

(48:30-66:31)

• Post-Crash Love, Davey's lowest point personally and professionally, feeling ignored despite believing the band just made its best work.
  • “I wanted to die. … It felt very similar to what was going on with me personally, which was a sudden, unforeseen betrayal…” (Davey, 48:36/49:23)
• How friendship (Jade, “the King,” “the wolves”) and new management revived him. The “King” housed Davey in “the castle” for a creative reset.
  • “He says, move to the castle... All I need from you is to write a record. I don’t need nothing, I’m rich.” (Davey, 55:54)
• Burials channels that misery into art – and ultimately, despite little commercial success, the live show connection returns and crowds begin singing again.
  • “It was the epitome of catharsis for me. … It came back with Burials.” (Davey, 59:39/63:45)
  • “With Burials, it went back.” (Davey, 65:04)

7. Creating in a Declining Guitar World & Enduring Audience

(66:31-72:56)

• The return of passion and connection to an ever-enduring core audience, and what it means when crowds seem smaller but more vital.
  • “We’re playing empty rooms… but the live show...is the juice. That’s what I do this for.” (Davey, 61:34/63:07)
• Commentary on the sociocultural climate: “reality has become mind-altering,” with social media and lies polluting culture.
  • “We now live in a time that is mind-altering…” (Davey, 108:20)
• Davey’s vegan, straight edge circle (the “wolves”) lift him up; the sense of gratitude and love for those fans/friends is clear.

8. Ongoing Evolution of the Band: The Blood Album, Bodies, and Beyond

(68:07-90:07)

• Writing processes for The Blood Album & Bodies: a blend of self-doubt, changing styles, and continual growth.
  • “You guys are not a band that just does it again. There’s always some evolutionary leap.” (Colin, 90:55)
• Jade Puget’s central role and mutual trust in songwriting—a collaborative dynamic built on decades of creative partnership.
  • “Just pure trust… It’s not even a thought.” (Davey, 76:26)
• COVID-era disruption: Davey’s regret that Bodies had to be released without a proper tour, but pride in the record remains.

9. Silver Bleeds the Black Sun (2025): Intentional Mood, Restless Reinvention

(92:48–107:42)

• Arrival at the new album: desire to avoid repeating past work, to create their “moody record,” referencing influences as varied as Heaven Up Here, Swamp Thing, Pornography, and Love and Rockets.
  • “We can’t come with anything expected… I’m thinking heaven up here, Swamp Thing, Porngraphy-ish, maybe some Love and Rockets…” (Davey, 94:25)
• Davey wrote lyrics before hearing full music for the first time ever, reflecting lyrical experimentation and a fresh approach.
  • “This is the first record I’ve ever written where I was able to come to the session with complete songs.” (Davey, 100:23)
• The record is described as having a unifying, abysmal, and edgy mood, and Davey calls it “maybe my favorite thing I’ve ever made.”
  • “I think we did something better than what we set out for… I’m so in love with this record, I’m moved by it as if it’s not me.” (Davey, 104:51/106:14)
• Reflection on the album’s place in the world’s “uncanny, abysmal” climate—Davey’s art as catharsis and connection, particularly for the alienated.
  • “...my hope that I offer a connection for the isolated… that they feel a little bit less alone.” (Davey, 107:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Being Held Back by Labels (02:31)

“We were being cruelly. Cruelly held by. We were legally being held and cruelly held.” — Davey Havok

On “Ms. Murder”’s Hidden Darkness (33:32)

“That was the number one hit that poses the gentle question, should I just kill myself?” — Davey Havok

On Commercial Failure and Fan Disconnection (42:01)

“December Underground sold more the first week than [Crash Love] sold in its entirety.” — Davey Havok

On the Pain of the Drop-Off (61:34)

“We’re playing empty rooms, but the live show... that’s the juice. That’s why I do this.” — Davey Havok

When Punk Legends Become Mentors (81:18)

“You are certainly by far one of my biggest inspirations. [Peter Murphy says] ‘Kneel.’ … I hereby knight thee.” — Davey Havok

On the Need Not to Repeat (94:25)

“We can’t come with anything that is expected… I’m thinking Heaven Up Here, Swamp Thing, Pornography-ish, you know, maybe some Love and Rockets.” —Davey Havok

Record Release Timing & Vibes (111:13)

"The sound of the summer... Luckily, it's coming out in the fall. ... It's a fall record." — Davey Havok

On Art as Survival (107:19)

“…my hope that I offer a connection for the isolated…that they feel a little less alone.” — Davey Havok

Essential Timestamps

• 00:00-07:56 – “Sing the Sorrow” breakthrough and trauma
• 11:30-15:17 – Single selection, video lore, and early-2000s relevance
• 17:48-21:29 – Vocal cord damage, surgery, and the cost of success
• 25:23–34:10 – “Decemberunderground” writing-hell and major label obstacles
• 35:21-47:16 – “Crash Love” flop, “despair faction” disconnection, societal shift
• 48:30–59:40 – Post-failure despair, “Burials” and the King’s intervention
• 63:07–66:31 – Live energy and the mystery of crowd disconnect
• 76:03-77:13 – The elemental trust in Jade Puget, the four-man core
• 81:18–83:06 – Meeting Peter Murphy and being “knighted”
• 92:48-107:42 – Writing Silver Bleeds the Black Sun, forging the band’s moodiest and most unified record yet
• 114:14–116:07 – AFI’s enduring physical art, Run For Cover label love, and the importance of passionate curation

The Band’s Hardcore DNA—Davey’s Four Desert Island Records

(114:34)

• Germs – GI
• Minor Threat – Singles Collection
• Negative Approach – Total Recall
• Black Flag – Everything Went Black
  • “There’s 400 [great ones]... I could do like, the Dead Kennedys record…”

Tone & Style

This episode is an open-hearted conversation peppered with dry humor, punk inside jokes, and genuine vulnerability. Davey’s delivery is earnest, occasionally self-deprecating or embittered when recounting industry misadventures, always deeply grateful for the musicians, fans, and friends who have supported him and the band. The hosts’ tone is reverent but playful, providing both fan-service and sharp, thoughtful questions.

For New Listeners & Longtime Fans

This is the definitive oral history for understanding AFI’s journey from hardcore roots to mainstream icons and back. It demystifies band decisions, reveals the raw cost of creative ambition, and underscores how, despite industry churn and evolving scenes, integrity and friendship matter above all. There’s deep value here for any listener curious about the personal and professional cycles that shape lasting art.

If You Only Listen to Three Segments

• [17:48] – Davey’s account of vocal injury, recovery, and what performing costs him
• [34:10] – Chart-topping “Ms. Murder,” the double-edge of mainstream success, and fan/cultural disconnect
• [92:48] – The new album’s conception, intentionality, and Davey’s reflections on art as connection

Closing Words

“My hope is that I offer a connection for the isolated… that they feel a little bit less alone. I know that sounds trite...but it’s just true.”
— Davey Havok (107:19)

End of episode summary.