HardLore's Day in Chicago with HARMS WAY, THE KILLER & HOLD MY OWN

Summary

HardLore Podcast Episode Summary: "Day in Chicago with HARMS WAY, THE KILLER & HOLD MY OWN"

Release Date: July 31, 2025

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Introduction: A Day Exploring Chicago's Hardcore Scene

Hosted by Colin Young and Bo Lueders, the episode takes listeners on an immersive journey through Chicago's vibrant hardcore, punk, and metal scenes. The hosts meet with notable guests Shane Merrill from The Killer and Eli from Hold My Own, delving deep into the history, evolution, and personal anecdotes that shape the local music landscape.

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Reconnecting with Chicago Hardcore: An Interview with Shane Merrill (00:40 – 09:10)

Shane Merrill reminisces about the early days of Chicago hardcore in the mid-90s, highlighting the prominence of vegan straight-edge bands like Earth Crisis.

Shane Merrill (02:14): "When I first got into it, there was definitely way more vegan, straight edge people."

Bo shares a nostalgic clip of Shane enjoying Firestorm Bowl, underscoring the deep roots and longevity of the scene.

Evolution of the Scene: Shane discusses how venues like the Knights of Columbus Hall became central hubs for hardcore shows, transitioning from small basement gigs to hosting national acts.

Shane Merrill (07:13): "I was definitely just doing it for fun. And then I realized that I could maybe do it for my career."

He credits mentors like Jim Grimes for facilitating connections with national tours, emphasizing the DIY spirit that fueled Chicago's hardcore growth.

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The Killer's Journey and Influences (14:00 – 21:19)

Bo and Shane delve into The Killer's origins, from their first shows at local venues to their influential records.

Bo (15:10): "The Killer was the band that made me realize that danger is fun."

Shane highlights the importance of drummer Remus, who played a pivotal role beyond just rhythm, acting as an arranger and cohesive force within the band.

Shane Merrill (20:00): "Remus was the one that holds everything together."

The discussion transitions to their second LP, "Better Judge by 12," praised for its nuanced and intelligent approach to hardcore.

Chris Mills (20:24): "It's so much more than like heavy hardcore. It's probably so intelligent."

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Memorable Shows and Venue Highlights (22:20 – 33:01)

Shane recounts unforgettable moments from tours and local shows, including a harrowing incident in Dallas where quick thinking ensured they got paid despite initial setbacks.

Shane Merrill (22:25): "Someone was going to be able to pay us. Luke called his dad, and five minutes later, his dad rolled up with cash."

The hosts explore iconic Chicago venues like Reggie's and the Fireside Bowl, sharing stories of legendary performances by bands like Entombed, Hate, and L7.

Shane Merrill (83:26): "One of my favorites... Entombed, Hatred, and Bloodlet did a tour and they played here."

Bo vividly describes the atmosphere of these venues during peak times, illustrating the close-knit community and high-energy performances that define Chicago's hardcore scene.

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The Rumble Festival: Past and Present (11:35 – 13:43)

Shane discusses the inception of the Rumble Festival, originally conceived as a fest in December 1997 featuring a diverse lineup. Despite challenges like police shutdowns, the festival evolved into an annual staple at the Knights of Columbus Hall.

Shane Merrill (11:35): "The first fest we did was me, Jim, and Ed Fektorovich... It was really cool."

Bo and Chris reflect on the festival's growth into a premier event, attracting national acts and fostering a sense of community among attendees.

Shane Merrill (13:29): "We've kept it purposely niche and boutique, but... last year was a great vibe."

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Insights from Hold My Own: Evolution and Community (34:00 – 53:33)

Eli from Hold My Own shares his personal journey into hardcore, influenced by family and skateboarding, leading to his role in the band. He emphasizes the surge of new local bands and the thriving energy in Chicago's current scene.

Eli (36:40): "Every show is pretty much sold out. On a Monday show, a show will get sold out."

The conversation highlights the importance of community participation and the responsibility of seasoned members to nurture new talent.

Chris Mills (26:43): "It's up to us to keep them coming. Be nice."

Eli expresses optimism for the future, noting the diversity and passion of emerging bands like Exit Service, Augment, and Absent Soul.

Eli (41:31): "They're just kids who fucking love this shit."

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Iconic Venues and the Lasting Legacy of the Fireside Bowl (57:00 – 100:34)

The hosts and Shane take a virtual tour of the Fireside Bowl, sharing its historical significance and legendary performances. They recount stories of bands like AFI, Madball, and Ringworm, highlighting the venue's role in shaping Chicago's hardcore identity.

Shane Merrill (82:34): "We had Entombed Hatred and Bloodlet... that was a cool show."

Bo and Chris engage in playful banter while exploring the venue, capturing the nostalgia and enduring impact of the Fireside Bowl on the local scene.

Bo (85:29): "We got all of the Bootlegs. That's sick."

Shane notes the challenges of reviving such iconic spaces but remains hopeful for their legacy.

Shane Merrill (88:49): "I wouldn't count on it... he's not really a music guy."

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Closing Reflections and Community Engagement (100:34 – End)

As the day winds down, the hosts emphasize the importance of community, participation, and preserving the hardcore spirit. They encourage listeners to support local venues, attend shows, and contribute in any way possible to keep the scene alive and thriving.

Chris (53:14): "The participation, the reaction is what makes something special."

The episode concludes with heartfelt acknowledgments, promoting local businesses like Mad Vintage and reinforcing the message of unity and passion within Chicago's hardcore community.

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Notable Quotes:

• Shane Merrill (02:14): "When I first got into it, there was definitely way more vegan, straight edge people."
• Bo (15:10): "The Killer was the band that made me realize that danger is fun."
• Chris Mills (20:24): "It's so much more than like heavy hardcore. It's probably so intelligent."
• Shane Merrill (22:25): "Luke called his dad, and five minutes later, his dad rolled up with cash."
• Eli (36:40): "Every show is pretty much sold out. On a Monday show, a show will get sold out."
• Chris Mills (26:43): "It's up to us to keep them coming. Be nice."
• Bo (85:29): "We got all of the Bootlegs. That's sick."
• Chris (53:14): "The participation, the reaction is what makes something special."

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Conclusion

"Day in Chicago with HARMS WAY, THE KILLER & HOLD MY OWN" offers an in-depth exploration of Chicago's hardcore scene, blending historical insights with personal stories. The episode celebrates the enduring legacy of iconic venues, the emergence of new talent, and the unwavering community spirit that keeps the hardcore ethos alive. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the scene, this episode provides a rich and engaging narrative of what makes Chicago's hardcore music culture uniquely powerful.

Transcript

[Bo]

If only there was some kind of recreational exhibition of sport we could all participate in.

[Chris]

That's right, Mother. It is the legendary Fireside Bowl. Can't believe we're finally doing something big in Chicago.

[Bo]

In Chicago. I live here, by the way. And what do you feel like doing today?

[Chris]

I just want to have a nice day all around Chicago. I want to do what you would do. Hello. Welcome. It's Hard Lore time. How you doing, Bo?

[Bo]

I'm doing really good. I was thinking maybe we could see if anybody's around and talk to us and kind of go to some places that we like.

[Chris]

That's a great idea. We're in Chicago. We're going to do a bunch of stuff. I want to see a day in Beau's life in the city that he's from, see if we can run into anybody. Oh, my God.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, my God.

[Chris]

It's Shane Merrill from the club. Holy shit. Perfect.

[Bo]

Boss Mike, ready to go?

[Chris]

Hello, sir. How you doing?

[Shane Merrill]

Good to see you guys.

[Bo]

You got a minute?

[Chris]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Bo]

Wow. Maybe we grab a cop and let's go get. This is Electric Mud. This is an establishment I frequent damn near every day.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Bo]

And they serve dark matter. They got four different kinds of cold brew.

[Chris]

Let's try all four. Let's.

[Bo]

Let's do the flight. Let's go.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, yeah. So, Shane. Yes, sir?

[Chris]

Talk to us about how Chicago hardcore has evolved from when you first got into it to now.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, when I first got into it, there was definitely way more vegan, straight edge people.

[Chris]

Interesting.

[Shane Merrill]

I came in, in, like, 95, 96, when Earth Crisis was really peaking.

[Bo]

Yeah. There's a great clip that I have of Shady enjoying Fireside or Fire Storm. Here it is at the Fireside.

[Chris]

The Firestorm Bowl.

[Bo]

At the Firestorm Bowl. Where are you from originally?

[Shane Merrill]

Arlington Heights.

[Bo]

Okay. I was born in Arlington.

[Chris]

Oh, beautiful.

[Bo]

See that?

[Shane Merrill]

I wasn't actually born there, but I lived there since I was, like, 12 years old.

[Bo]

Gotcha.

[Shane Merrill]

That's where I grew up. High school, all that.

[Bo]

Is that the Knights of Columbus?

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, that was it, basically.

[Chris]

I played there.

[Shane Merrill]

Did you?

[Chris]

Yes. We played with the Killer on my birthday.

[Shane Merrill]

What band?

[Chris]

Twitching Tongues are.

[Shane Merrill]

The Twitching Tongues. Tongues played there.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Chris]

Yeah. I pitted harder than anybody for the Killer, man. And I was. I was like. I was offended on your behalf, you know?

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah. You know, it comes and goes. It depends on the show. It depends on the vibe for anybody.

[Bo]

Playing, watching along at home. You often talk about the Cobalt. Yeah, the Knights of Columbus was kind of our Cobalt. It was the suburban venue that had shows all the time, whether they were only hardcore or metalcore or sometimes metal, sometimes pop punk, There was always, always happening there.

[Chris]

It was a great spot.

[Bo]

It was awesome.

[Chris]

Good floor. Good for dancing.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah, it was big enough.

[Shane Merrill]

I mean, how. I first did a show there was, like, Baxter with Tim Macares band before Rise against that. They were always trying to play. And, like, we were in a show at his mom's basement, and I was like, man, I wish we could put something bigger together. And one of them was like, there's a Knights of Columbus hall. You should just rent it out and do a show. He had the suggestion. Jay, their bass player, and I did it, and I just never looked back. I just kept doing it from that. So thanks to those guys for giving me the idea, you know.

[Bo]

When did you start booking shows?

[Shane Merrill]

Like, 97, so really?

[Chris]

So just a couple years in May.

[Shane Merrill]

97. I was.

[Chris]

Never looked back.

[Shane Merrill]

I was 18 at the time. Holy hell, yeah.

[Chris]

Were you vegan? Straight edge?

[Shane Merrill]

I was for a little while.

[Bo]

Really? Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

I can say, admittedly, that it was more of a peer pressure thing that got me to do it when I was 18 or 19 years old. But I was vegan and straight edge for a couple of years, and then just straight edge for a couple more years after that, so.

[Chris]

Earth Crisis was so good.

[Bo]

You're like.

[Shane Merrill]

It was. That was part of it. Yeah, that was part of it.

[Bo]

They're on to something interesting.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, it was definitely part of it.

[Chris]

Do you recall your first band?

[Shane Merrill]

The first band I ever played in?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah. It was a death metal band called Scorch.

[Chris]

Very sick in high school.

[Bo]

What was the vibe in high school?

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, it was like, you know, we. We. I think we listened to the first Six Feet under record and we're like, if they can do it, we can do it. You know, easy, easy. Just caveman riffs kind of thing, you know? And they did it, had a couple of demos, and that was it. So.

[Bo]

Yeah. Were you in Synacrosis?

[Shane Merrill]

Yes. You were? Yeah, that was me and Luke and Remus and. And sometimes Remus kind of floated in and out of the band, but it.

[Chris]

Was 3, 3, 4, 3/5 of the killer.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, that was like the killer precursor. Like the killer Pretty. It pretty much morphed into the killer from that Cynicalsis was just way more metal.

[Bo]

Do you recall a story about Luke fighting a keyboard, maybe at the House of Blue?

[Shane Merrill]

Breaking a keyboard? Well, actually, I. Actually, I broke the keyboard. We were both about to get blamed for it, and we got the hell.

[Chris]

Out Of There and then Luke. History has shown that Luke took the fall.

[Bo]

Yeah, apparently.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah. We were opening for Cradle of Filth and Sick.

[Chris]

Was it their keyboard, really?

[Shane Merrill]

They had so much backlined on the stage. Like, God Forbid was on it too. And somebody else, and God Forbid in the other band, too. They were like, we don't even know how we're gonna fit. Because Cradle of Filth had so much gear on the stage and then we had to play in front of everybody. So, like, if I moved, I was going to bump into something.

[Chris]

Yeah, that sucks.

[Shane Merrill]

And I bumped right into one of their keyboards that fell over in the middle of our set. And I was like, that didn't sound very good. We just kept playing. And then, like, backstage, about 10 minutes later, we heard them say, One house broke our keyboard.

[Chris]

Someone our reboard, pretty much.

[Shane Merrill]

And me and Luke were just like, let's get the hell out of here.

[Chris]

That's what we did.

[Bo]

It fell over and went, yeah. So, Shane, you kind of. You have been the. The North Star for my generations coming.

[Chris]

When did you first meet?

[Bo]

God, I don't know. Early, early 2000s.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, it's got to be at least. I was gonna say at least 20 years.

[Chris]

Can you tell me about your first impressions of. Of little Bo?

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, they were such cute kids, all of them.

[Bo]

Were. Were we ever on time?

[Shane Merrill]

Were you ever on time?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, God, I can't remember, dude. I can't.

[Bo]

One time at Nights of Columbus, you were on time. I was. I was so late that I walked in with my guitar while the entire band was set up and, like. Like, literally, like, waiting for me to plug in. We were so bad. Me and Chris were so.

[Shane Merrill]

I mean, that sounds like Tim Remus. That's been a lot of killer shows that we've been waiting for. Tim Remus and the drums were all set up and he'll walk in, like, right before we play. Like, we just played a couple weeks ago, and Tim said, what time do we go on? I said, we go on around 10. He goes, See you at 9:55.

[Chris]

Oh, my God. Can't imagine.

[Bo]

Did you. I don't know how to word this. Was it intentional that you became, like, kind of the guy for shows?

[Shane Merrill]

I mean, when I first started doing it, I was definitely just doing it for fun. And then I think maybe within the first year of doing it and the first year of going to college, I realized that I could maybe do it for my career, you know, and that really interested me. So I switched to Columbia College and started doing the arts and entertainment program there and about six months into it realized that most of the stuff they were teaching me I already knew. So then I got offered a job at Jam Productions here in Chicago and the rest was history.

[Chris]

So was there a hole to be filled in terms of the booking of Chicago?

[Bo]

Oh yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

I mean not, not in terms of hardcore because Jim Grimes was doing it and like he. I just became somebody that was helping him facilitate stuff at first and I learned a lot from him. And then he kind of gradually lost interest in doing shows and then I gradually did more and more. But he was definitely, he was definitely the conduit that was getting me like, you know, national tours when I was a 19 year old kid and didn't know anybody. And he would say, hey, you want to do this one King Down Brothers Keeper show at your Knights of Columbus Hall? Yeah, you know, that's kind of how it started.

[Chris]

Was there a specific single show you can remember booking that was kind of the catalyst or were in the turning point of when you knew you were on the right path?

[Shane Merrill]

I don't know if there was one that I knew I was on the right path, but I feel like I gained a little bit more respect from like the booking agents and stuff. When I did In Flames, that was like the first big metal. I was only doing hardcore shows and Tim Boer had In Flames and it was their first US tour and we did that at the Knights of Columbus Hall.

[Chris]

Damn.

[Shane Merrill]

And once I did that, it, things kind of changed.

[Chris]

Because you were like, oh, I could just do anything.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, well, I was always, you know, half hardcore and half metal. I was metal first. And like that was like, whoa. In Flames, like it's a totally different level, you know what I mean? And they definitely were not aware they were playing a VFW hall and we're not super stoked about it. I remember the tour manager realizing how green I was and really helping me out that way.

[Chris]

Oh, that's huge.

[Bo]

Yeah, we interviewed them. Really? Two of them, really briefly. Never aired it at a Furnace festival. Yeah, we didn't air it. And they were really cool.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, they weren't, they weren't dicks at all. They were just like, wow, this is not what we were expecting. We're not in Europe anymore.

[Bo]

Occasionally you would have the stage out at the nights. Did you have the stage for that? Yeah, it's like a little like a.

[Shane Merrill]

Little like maybe 18 inch type of thing. 12. 12 inches. 18 inches. Like we would put it as a little bit and like, okay, you can jump up and Barely not hit the ceiling.

[Chris]

That'll work.

[Bo]

Yeah. Okay. The drop ceiling.

[Chris]

Never saw that.

[Bo]

Yeah, it was. It was rare.

[Chris]

I want to hear more about.

[Bo]

Just.

[Chris]

How you watch the community grow. People like Bo and James and Chris come in and. And start. Start these bands and like a whole second wave of Chicago hardcore starting.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, second, you know, third, fourth waves now. You know, like, it's. It's cool. Like, the older I get, the more I am excited about seeing like, young kids come around. And like, I kind of. I'm kind of like comfortable. I was talking to Brandon from Big Boy about this at the rumble. Like, I'm. I'm comfortable kind of being like the. The old guy that kind of helps foster everything and kind of sticks around and helps everything grow. And like, I love that role, you know?

[Bo]

Yeah, we.

[Shane Merrill]

That's a cool place to be.

[Bo]

Yeah, the best finding that.

[Shane Merrill]

I mean, it's crazy. Like we're. We're all elder states. But now, even though, like, you guys were always the young kids to us.

[Chris]

You know, I was the youngest person in the room till like a year ago in my mind.

[Bo]

Yeah. Right, right, right. Let's talk about. So back in the day, it was the heist. It was the great Arlington heist. Because it was at the Knights Club. Yeah, sometimes it was in one time. It was in Hammond.

[Shane Merrill]

Yes.

[Bo]

One time or a couple times it was at the Sportsplex in Darien, which I talked about a couple times.

[Shane Merrill]

Yes.

[Bo]

You had that particular Sportsplex year was like black. I saw blacklisted for the first time. Internal Affairs, Marauder. Marauder was Saab the last time they played here. When did we. Because I don't remember. The very first. I think the first heist I had strep throat and I couldn't go. Chris went, got me the blood and blood out demo. Nice. But he went kind of reported. I was like, dude, next year you gotta go kind of thing. When did the fest thing start to click? Because festivally popular now, but back.

[Shane Merrill]

The first fest we did was me, Jim and a dude named Ed Fektorovich who was really tight with the race trader guys and knew tons of Indian emo bands. We put our heads together and did a fest in December 97 that had like all out war, Earth Mover. Get up kids. Braid.

[Chris]

Jeez.

[Bo]

Whoa.

[Shane Merrill]

It was all over the place.

[Bo]

Was that well received? It was.

[Shane Merrill]

It was really cool. Like we did it at a place called the Odom right here in Chicago that's not there anymore. And cops shut it down halfway through. And then we fireside saved us, and we moved it to Fireside for the rest of the weekend. But that was the first one. And I tried to always do something every year, and it. I don't know, it became the heist a few years after that. Just stupid, like, play on words. Yeah. But I think by 98, we were doing it at Knights of Columbus.

[Chris]

And by 98.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, I think just the 97, we did it at Odom. And then we had the problems with the cops shutting it down and everything, so we did it. I believe, 98, we started doing it at Knights of Columbus.

[Chris]

So what was. What was American hardcore mental punk fest culture like before that? Like, what were the ones that you saw that made you think you could do something like that?

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, gosh, yeah.

[Bo]

Were there others?

[Shane Merrill]

I mean, the only. I mean, there wasn't really anything here in the Midwest. I mean, it was definitely before.

[Chris]

So how does word get back about these fests around the country that makes you think I could do that or we should do that?

[Shane Merrill]

Honestly, it's probably because every year in high school, me and my buddies would drive the Milwaukee Metal Fest. Oh, why?

[Bo]

Okay.

[Shane Merrill]

You know, and I just probably thought I could do some sort of mini version of that. You know what I mean? That's probably it. Because this is like before these hardcore, before posi numbers, before any of that, you know, so.

[Bo]

Which is crazy to think about this.

[Chris]

And you're still going with. It has evolved into what the Rumble is now.

[Shane Merrill]

The Rumble is.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

And. And, you know, we've. We've kept it kind of, you know, purposely kind of niche and boutique, you know, but, yeah, it's. It's. This last year was. Was great. And it was. It was a great vibe.

[Chris]

Beautiful.

[Bo]

All reports, by the way, from everyone from, like, our California friends, Detroit people, everything. They had a great time. Yeah. I feel like this year was really.

[Shane Merrill]

You can. You can feel when people are enjoying it, and I feel like everybody was just super satisfied and happy and that's all we can ask for.

[Chris]

Absolutely.

[Bo]

What you talk about booking E Town for the first time that they played.

[Chris]

Here in, like, you love etown.

[Shane Merrill]

I love E Town, so.

[Chris]

Me too.

[Shane Merrill]

It was a full circle moment to have them at the Rumble because it had been so long since they've been here.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

And back in the day, the shows with them here were really rough. Like, they were playing in an era where that style was not really that loved here, you know?

[Chris]

Totally.

[Shane Merrill]

So it was nice to see them get the respect they deserve and have a really great crowd at a Show in Chicago, which beautiful. I mean, they killed. It was awesome.

[Bo]

It was good.

[Chris]

I want to get into the Killer.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

What does the Killer mean to you?

[Bo]

I mean, I. I say it often, but there's like, that meme of the Father, Son, holy spirit, and I. I like to think that it's holy. It's the Killer. Us and Nachos are kind of the bands of. Of my era, my peers, who I see as my generation. The Killer were the band that made me realize heavy doesn't equal horror. Like, they're not mutually exclusive. There's different things. And the Killer was the band that made me realize that Danger is fun.

[Chris]

Oh, yeah.

[Bo]

And especially when it's, like, consensual.

[Chris]

Mutual Danger is the sickest thing.

[Bo]

This thing together. The Killer did a crazy thing. I knew the episode. Welcome to Chicago. Would you call it an ep or is it the demo?

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, same thing. Both. It was a demo that somebody put out.

[Bo]

Yeah. Okay.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Bo]

So I knew that, but I hadn't. I hadn't graduated yet into into, like, J.

[Chris]

By 12.

[Bo]

I just had. No, I hadn't graduated yet into, like, going to every local show I had, probably. You remember the Sportsplex show with Standard Fight and Steve Kane's old band, Adani's old band?

[Shane Merrill]

Not really, but I remember tons of shows there.

[Bo]

Yeah. So that was, like my second show. And then the. An Every Time I Die, Fireside Show, Suicide File in Hokan.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, yeah.

[Bo]

That was like my third show. And then I was truly hooked. And that's when I would have found the killer, probably because the organized crime comp.

[Chris]

Those were awesome.

[Bo]

Those were. Did Clint.

[Shane Merrill]

Clint doesn't get enough respect and appreciation for everything that he's done, not only for Chicago, but just for every. Everywhere.

[Chris]

I ordered from that web store all the time.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah. And I mean, Clint also, he worked at Victory at. At the time and would, like, help bands out. He would print stuff. He would. He would take care of people. He did organize crime. He put out. I think every band in Chicago has probably done something. Unorganized crime.

[Shane Merrill]

I would think so, yeah.

[Bo]

Including both of ours.

[Shane Merrill]

What's that?

[Bo]

Including both of ours.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Bo]

And then there was this comp. And it was before our. My. Any of my bands were really doing anything, but it was literally like, the Killer was on there, Sidewalk was on there, Plan of Attack was on there. All the bands that were, you know, and they did a thing. The Killer did a thing where they put out the lp, the first lp. And then you guys went on, like, a Tour. You, like, went away for a while for like a song and then came back and they did their record release at the Knights of Columbus. And it was the scariest thing. I think you covered Slayer. It was.

[Eli]

Oh, yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

We had Jim come up and sing Mandatory Suicide with us.

[Bo]

It was so.

[Shane Merrill]

Looks like the whole thing. Looks like anybody have somebody else sing that I ain't going to learn.

[Bo]

Was just so, like Fever Pitch. Everyone was so excited. This was like our band, you know what I mean?

[Shane Merrill]

And yes, the whole thing. But it got shut off in the middle of it because Luke got into it with some.

[Chris]

Per usual.

[Shane Merrill]

But yes, the intention was the whole thing.

[Chris]

Tell me about the early days of the Killer from the demo to better judge by 12.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, man. It seems like such a long time ago, but, I mean, I think my favorite memory from that era was the one longer than a five, six day thing that we did on the road.

[Bo]

We.

[Shane Merrill]

We went out with Blood and Blood out and Bloody Sunday and we did like a three or so week run and we went to the west coast and that was like the only time we really ever did that.

[Bo]

That.

[Shane Merrill]

That stands at the top of my list as far as memories go.

[Bo]

We just experiences.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah. Not such great shows.

[Bo]

It's. It'll. It'll be fun.

[Shane Merrill]

Such great shows and, you know, just. That was like summer of 2003, and that was the only time I was really out on the road.

[Chris]

Was that before that was the album.

[Shane Merrill]

2003 or 2004, I think. I think Better judge it was out. I think it was.

[Bo]

Did you play in Southern California?

[Shane Merrill]

We did.

[Bo]

We played.

[Shane Merrill]

Showcase theater. That makes Jason face down.

[Chris]

Yeah. And like, I. E. Like Inland Empire kids are still flying the flag for the Killer to this day.

[Shane Merrill]

That's amazing. That's amazing.

[Bo]

This is. This is not an exaggeration. The first time I went to. Well, you live there too, so to. To the Young house in the Valley. There was a killer tape on the counter, like by the sink. Yeah. And I just. I remember washing my hands being like, okay. You know.

[Chris]

Okay, they made it.

[Bo]

Yeah. Also, dude, there's so many dominoes with the Killer. The Killer. It was also like, oh, I should check out Sepultur. Oh, wow. The influence of Sepultura was there.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Bo]

They would play. They would cover songs sometimes. And coming from such a punk and youth crew and I didn't. I would have known to check out.

[Chris]

They're really your gateway to all things.

[Bo]

Hard, all things heavy. True. Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

I mean, we. We came from different backgrounds. You came from more Punk. I came from more metal, but that's where we met, is in our country. And there's so examples of that all over the place, you know what I mean?

[Chris]

Can you tell me about writing that first killer record and. And the memories you have.

[Shane Merrill]

And it was me and the other guitar player, Mark, who's not in the band anymore. Most of those songs was either one of us coming up with most of it and then the other one adding something. And then Remus has to get so much credit.

[Bo]

Oh, my God.

[Chris]

He's not.

[Shane Merrill]

He's not just a drummer. He's like an arranger. Like, there's so many times where he'd be like, that's cool, but do the riff just slightly different, do it this way instead. He would kind of hum out. I'd be like, that's perfect.

[Bo]

You know, everybody needs that.

[Shane Merrill]

He was. He was way more than just a drummer. He's the only person, I would say that we, the band could not exist without, you know, the second. I mean, now we're established, we all have to be in there, but like, he's the one that like holds everything together.

[Chris]

The second lp, you can really tell it's a drummer. It's a drum record.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris]

And I. I instantly connected with that record.

[Shane Merrill]

That, that record I think we knew was going to be a little bit tougher sell to people, but that was. That was definitely myself and to a greater extent, Tim being like, let's just do exactly what we want. Yeah.

[Chris]

It's incredible. If you have not listened to the first killer lp, obviously iconic Chicago hardcore. Second one is like nuanced, scientifically written. It's. It's so much more than like heavy hardcore. It's probably so intelligent.

[Shane Merrill]

It's probably not the best idea for today's day and ages attention span, but.

[Chris]

For sure, I mean, there's many five minute songs, people will ask, it's like.

[Shane Merrill]

Why don't you play more songs from that? It's like, well, we play two and that's our set because like people pay 20 minutes. That's these days.

[Bo]

You know what I mean?

[Shane Merrill]

So. But yeah, I'm very proud of that record because it's a little bit different and we just kind of did our own thing on it.

[Chris]

So can you tell me about your experiences having Andrew Morrissey in the band?

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, man, I miss Andrew.

[Chris]

Me too.

[Shane Merrill]

I miss Andrew. I. Yeah, so many fun experiences with him. For whatever reason, the bass player in the band has always been the one that gets tased real bad. Probably because it keeps changing the Bass player is the only thing that hasn't been totally steady. We've had four different bass players.

[Bo]

Who's the first one?

[Shane Merrill]

Jesse.

[Bo]

Jesse from Milwaukee.

[Shane Merrill]

Jesse start from Milwaukee. And then, then there was Jay from Hugh Corrupts and stuff and Suburban Refugee and all those bands. And then Andrew and now Dave, but. Right, Andrew. I miss him. I miss him a lot.

[Chris]

That's family.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, he's family to me too, even though I haven't talked to him in a lot of years now.

[Bo]

But he is one of.

[Chris]

He's busy.

[Bo]

He's one of those people you just pick right up where you left off.

[Chris]

Are there any wild show stories that come to mind from the, the first killer LP era that, that you can legally talk about? Maybe.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, there's. There, I, I, that tour. That tour. There was a couple things.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Shane Merrill]

There was a show in Dallas where didn't do very well and the guy wasn't going to be able to pay us. And I just remember Luke walking off with the guy, having a, seem like calm conversation with the guy for about a minute. Watch Luke walk back. Watch the guy walk right to the phone. There was. This is still pay phone era. He's using the phone. And I was like, hey, Luke, would you tell the guy? He's like, I told him he better find the money. And he said, I'm gonna go call my dad. So he's on the phone calling his dad. Five minutes later, his dad rolls up to the front of the show, rolls down his window, gives the kid a bunch of cash, and that's how we got paid. We weren't talking a lot of money. You're talking like 600 for 3 dads.

[Bo]

Yeah, right, right.

[Chris]

But still, many such cases in that.

[Shane Merrill]

Time, you know, that's one of like the chill ones. I can.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, the kid understood. He understood many walks. The walk to the ATM was kind of commonplace for, for a long time.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, I, I did a lot of walk.

[Chris]

Lot of walk.

[Bo]

You've done a few of those yourself? Oh, yeah. Would you say, are you a gambler? Oh, yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

Would you say you can't be a professional concert promoter unless you like to gamble?

[Bo]

It is gambling, isn't it?

[Shane Merrill]

It is absolutely gambling.

[Bo]

It's like sports betting. This team's coming through this.

[Shane Merrill]

I wish I had odds before I booked a show, though, that I could find out if it was an underdog or not.

[Chris]

You know what I mean? You ever book Underdog?

[Bo]

Did you book that underdog show at the Fireside?

[Shane Merrill]

I think. Didn't the only time. They were on Burning Fight, weren't they?

[Bo]

They were on Burning Fight.

[Shane Merrill]

I don't know if they played ERA other than that.

[Bo]

In Chicago, there is a video of them playing fireside, but it's weird. They seem either brand new or they're playing a show that no one gives a shit about.

[Shane Merrill]

It could have been either.

[Bo]

Could have been either.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Could have been both.

[Bo]

Could have been both.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah. I vaguely think they might have played, but I can't.

[Chris]

I can't.

[Shane Merrill]

The only thing I really remember is that Burning Fight show, which. You look back on that lineup now, it's like, how the fuck did that even happen? That was such a legendary weekend.

[Chris]

But how do you. How do you look at Chicago hardcore now? What are your thoughts and feelings on. On what it has become?

[Shane Merrill]

I think it's great. I think I've never seen so many young, excited kids. And, you know, there's so many good young bands. There's a. Like, the Hispanic car core scene in Chicago has really taken over lately. And it's great bands like cdos, K and Augment and Exit Service, there's so many of them. And these kids come to every show.

[Chris]

Unbelievable.

[Shane Merrill]

And I mean, CBOs played it. The first band on Friday, the first band of the festival, and there was like, you know, 80 kids pitting for them.

[Bo]

All right. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool.

[Chris]

Yeah, they.

[Bo]

There were people because they would play samples and stuff in between, whether it was a speech or, like, music, you know, sampled music playing. There were people walking around Cobra Lounge, like, stopping and, like, just filming because it was, like, what?

[Chris]

Infectious.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah. What's going on? Yeah, but, yeah, I think. I think hardcore is in really good hands because I think the, you know, the people that these young kids are learning from all really care, and the kids really care, too, so it's a good mix.

[Bo]

It is weird to. I walk into a show now, like, I go to the Rumble, and I know 20 people.

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, yeah, me too.

[Bo]

And it's the same thing. That number is getting lesser and lesser.

[Shane Merrill]

Absolutely.

[Bo]

As we get older and older. And I decided at this last one.

[Shane Merrill]

Particularly, you knew more people Thursday night, though, when the Killer played.

[Bo]

That's very true.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, it's funny. It's like the Killer plays like, okay, I'm going to be in a room full of people I know night. And then the next day, like a current hardcore show. I know nobody.

[Bo]

Yeah. I mean, but I decided that's a good thing.

[Chris]

That's a great thing.

[Bo]

That's like an important.

[Shane Merrill]

It means the. It Means the scene is. Is thriving. Yeah. Without those of us that used to be around all the time.

[Chris]

And it's up to us to not look at that as. I don't know anybody, so I'm not going to talk to anybody. It's. It's our responsibility to. To nurture all these people. And you guys do a great job of that. But the young people coming are what this is ultimately for you. You know, this is. It's a young. It's a young person's game. We want you here. We want you to thrive. We want you to enjoy yourselves. So it's up to us to keep them coming. Be nice.

[Bo]

What's your all time favorite venue here?

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, man.

[Bo]

We'll say to work with and to play. They can be two different answers.

[Shane Merrill]

Okay. To work with is definitely Reggie's.

[Bo]

Reggie's. You've been booking there for a while.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, yeah. And the owner, Robbie, is like family to me. We've known each other since I was working at his record store in the suburbs when I was a teenager, all.

[Bo]

The way up until he does that Algonquin store, Record Breakers. That's where I bought south of Heaven. Oh, no. My first.

[Shane Merrill]

Wow.

[Bo]

Hell yeah. Yeah.

[Chris]

I don't know if I Have I played Reggie.

[Bo]

I don't think so.

[Shane Merrill]

I don't think so.

[Bo]

Maybe. I don't know.

[Shane Merrill]

Reggie, Maybe.

[Bo]

I don't think so.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Played the Double Door. I played the Sub T. I've played the Metro. Damn. I'm playing.

[Shane Merrill]

Well, that's my favorite place to work with.

[Chris]

Play the Knights of Columbus.

[Bo]

Fireside probably, though, as far as shows. Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

It's gotta be. It was such a. But it's got to be Fireside. Just too many great memories there.

[Chris]

I never got to go in there.

[Bo]

Yeah. Maybe we could do something about that.

[Eli]

I don't know.

[Chris]

Could you tell me, Shane, before we wrap this up, could you tell me your top four parkour records of all time?

[Shane Merrill]

I'm gonna go with Damnation. Misericordia for sure.

[Bo]

Damnation.

[Chris]

Dark Horse. Pick.

[Shane Merrill]

But the reason I picked that instead of no More Dreams is because you've got good live versions of most of the songs on no More Dreams that aren't on this.

[Bo]

Sure.

[Shane Merrill]

As long as I have Hangman and no More Dreams with Good Life, then I'm gonna go Miseracordia.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Chris]

They were over in Chicago.

[Bo]

Damnation and Earth Mover are two bands that I don't really hear about elsewhere that were so over. Over in Chicago.

[Shane Merrill]

Best wishes.

[Chris]

Great pick.

[Bo]

So the one you. I Have to keep interrupting because he's reminding me.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

You booked one of my all time favorite shows ever at the Sub T. JJ Chromags, Marauder, Death Threat, the Killer, Left Hand Path and then our band Convicted last show at the Subtee.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, I got hurt at that show. I accidentally marched into some kid with that was in a wheelchair in the pit.

[Bo]

Oh no.

[Chris]

Like the chair got you.

[Shane Merrill]

Like the chair got me. Yeah.

[Chris]

That's what karmic reform.

[Shane Merrill]

I didn't know he was in there. I felt terrible.

[Bo]

But I remember seeing Shane Pitt first time in my life. Probably known him over 10 years at that time. And as he's walking out I heard him say only for best wishes songs.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, crushed. I was up in the balcony and I heard Crush of Demonic. I heard the. I was like I gotta get that.

[Bo]

Okay. So sorry.

[Shane Merrill]

Master Killer.

[Bo]

Master Killer number three.

[Chris]

Great picture. Per usual.

[Bo]

Ah, stellar.

[Shane Merrill]

One and a fourth.

[Chris]

Yeah, you can take your time. It's. It'll be the fourth one's always the trickiest.

[Bo]

Yeah, it is.

[Shane Merrill]

There's so many I could pick.

[Chris]

There are.

[Bo]

Some people can make a career out of that.

[Shane Merrill]

I guess I'll go. I think there's about 30 records I could say. But the first one of the 30 that's coming off my head. So I'll take it. Born to Land Hard.

[Chris]

Unbelievable pick. Per usual. Shane.

[Bo]

Shane Merrill. Anything you want to tell people at home? Probably. Probably get a. A good amount of people from Chicago watching. Probably not a ton of people from Chicago watching, meaning lots of people who aren't from Chicago. Is there anything you want to tell people about coming here, playing here? Rumble in here?

[Shane Merrill]

Well, I don't know. Just apologies for our weather in the summer.

[Chris]

That's brutal.

[Shane Merrill]

But don't let that stop you from coming here. I don't know. Shows are. Shows are. You come here any night, you probably have two or three options. So you have lots of stuff going on to. To keep you busy.

[Chris]

I don't know.

[Shane Merrill]

I feel I'm drawing a blank.

[Bo]

Let me riff out, man. I. I feel as though there's less excuse and less reason than ever to skip Chicago because all tides are pretty high right now. Yeah, all scenes around us are pretty high.

[Shane Merrill]

It's. It's always been harder for the coast fans to get here.

[Bo]

Right.

[Shane Merrill]

You know, it's. I think that kids here at least I like to think that they appreciate that. It's. It's more of a struggle for bands to get here. So I think kids appreciate it more when they come.

[Chris]

I think I Also just listed six different venues I've played in Chicago, so there's no real excuse.

[Shane Merrill]

Yes.

[Chris]

And they're. And only one of them is closed now, so come on out. You're gonna have one of the best shows of your life.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, and I think we. We kind of embrace that, like, you know, Second City, you know, we. We embrace that underdog role.

[Bo]

Like. Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

You know, we're going up against LA and New York, you know, but we can hold our own. You know, that's kind of the Chicago mentality.

[Chris]

You probably got more Michelin stars than. Than LA and New York, so that's.

[Shane Merrill]

No doubt about that.

[Chris]

You're fine.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, no doubt about that. Yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah. Where do you like to eat, Shane?

[Shane Merrill]

Lately we've been into this Middle Eastern place called Crave Kebab.

[Bo]

Where's that?

[Shane Merrill]

It's in a. It's in a loop, but they'll. They'll grow up here.

[Bo]

Nice.

[Chris]

I've been known to crave kebab.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, There's a couple around here that, like, Falafel Grill over on.

[Bo]

That place is awesome.

[Shane Merrill]

That's pretty good. But this Crave Kebab knocks it out of the.

[Chris]

So that's your. You love Middle Eastern food right now.

[Bo]

You gotta go to Europe.

[Shane Merrill]

That's the phase right now.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

Falafel sandwich and Jerusalem salad and all that. That's crazy right now.

[Bo]

Do you eat meat?

[Shane Merrill]

I do, but very rarely with Middle Eastern food. I like the vegetarian stuff. Awesome.

[Bo]

Very nice.

[Chris]

Very nice. Well, boys, I think we. I think it's time for stop number two.

[Bo]

Yeah, we'll take a walk, huh?

[Chris]

Yeah. Shane, thank you so much for joining us.

[Shane Merrill]

Hey, good to see you guys.

[Chris]

Have an incredible day.

[Shane Merrill]

Fancy bumping into you guys.

[Bo]

Maybe we'll run into you again later on.

[Chris]

Hey, that sounds nice. That'd be great. Where are we right now, Bo?

[Bo]

This is Milwaukee Avenue in Wicker park, which has been my neighborhood for the last 12, 13 years, and pretty much.

[Chris]

Where every show I've ever played in Chicago is, save for one or two.

[Bo]

Spots and where you're even staying right now.

[Chris]

Yeah, I love this is. This is like my home base in Chicago every time I'm here.

[Bo]

For those of you who might not know, it's kind of Williamsburg, Echo Park, Silver Lake, you know, it's our Brooklyn.

[Chris]

Cool spot.

[Bo]

The cool place, you know, And. And it is cool.

[Chris]

Come on through, sir.

[Bo]

Thank you, sir. You know, it's a bustling, buzzing city. There's lots of stuff, but there's lots of stores, lots of Food. Lots of coffee.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Lots of history. Lots of.

[Chris]

And you can get some good jeans down at. At. Over at Mid Blend. Yeah, you can get good coffee here.

[Bo]

Pretty nice.

[Chris]

But we want to eat a nice meal.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

What do you recommend? Somebody walking around Wicker Park? I want to eat something kind of quick, but yummy. And I want to be satiated for many, many hours.

[Bo]

You know, there's a new burger place that opened up that I have not shut up about in about three months.

[Chris]

I can go for damn chance.

[Bo]

Okay, how's that sound?

[Chris]

I think there's a damn chance that I will eat that.

[Bo]

I think so.

[Chris]

Let's do it. Well, this looks sublime. I'm so hungry. I can't wait to dig in. Yeah. I mean, if only we had somebody here to join us for this.

[Bo]

It does choose a little. A little light. Dude.

[Chris Mills]

What's going on?

[Chris]

From Hold My Own.

[Bo]

You eat here?

[Chris Mills]

I do all the time. This is actually my first time here, but it's so crazy to see you guys.

[Chris]

Thanks for joining us.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Bo]

So what we have here.

[Chris]

And you're miked up.

[Bo]

Unbelievable. Mic up, slated ready to go.

[Chris]

Yeah. Tell me about this palm.

[Bo]

We have a Double Smash burger. They have a proprietary sauce. They have Beast Mode fries, which are kind of animals, kind of animal style, you know. Now, what the. What the burger has on it is pickles, tamed jalapenos, which are less spicy jalapenos. So you get more of a flavor and a crunch, less of overall heat, but the heat's still there. The burger sauce, two patties and some cheese.

[Shane Merrill]

A really tasty bun.

[Chris]

May I?

[Bo]

Yeah. I of course, get mine without the sauce on, and I get it on the side. I like to dip. I like to control my sauce. You do? I do. I control it.

[Chris]

You do eat it.

[Bo]

Sometimes I. I have to be in the mood. I'm gonna. Today, I think you should really dig in. All right. Dig in, please. All right. Isn't that nice? The tame jalapenos, I think, are kind of a highlight.

[Chris Mills]

That is amazing, honestly.

[Bo]

Get it in here.

[Shane Merrill]

Tighten.

[Chris Mills]

It's good. This is good.

[Chris]

I'm gonna need some napkins.

[Bo]

I'll get you. I got you on chip.

[Chris]

When did you get into hardcore music?

[Chris Mills]

I would say I don't know how many years exactly. Ago? I think probably now, 15 years ago, maybe. I was in eighth grade of middle school. Seventh grade, eighth grade. My brother got me into hardcore also.

[Chris]

In Hold My Own.

[Bo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Mills]

We play in a band together now after all these years for the first time which is, you know, a great full circle moment. And yeah, man, like he shown me so many bands from the Get Go, Mad Ball Terror, you know, a lot of niche, like beat down bands like Tyrant. So a bunch of like random like that built upon frustration. You know, before that, you know, I got into skateboarding. Skateboarding was like a huge thing in my life. I always told my friends I would never, I would never quit skateboarding and start in a band. And I did. I ended up doing it after a few years and I still skate sometimes, but you know, being a band, you know, for some reason at that time when I was young, you know, seemed more appealing to me. So I would say skateboarding.

[Chris]

Have you been a Chicagoland guy the whole time?

[Chris Mills]

Yeah, I have never lived anywhere else in my time of being into music.

[Chris]

Do you want to?

[Chris Mills]

Honestly, I've thought about it, but no, like I, you know, I've grown my whole life here in Chicago and just like I could never imagine leaving it. So no, I think I would stay here forever.

[Bo]

Yeah, I feel the same way. So where we're eating, speaking of skateboarding was actually co founded by Neen Williams, pro skater and a Michelin star chef. Oh, yeah. So the lore behind this place, I want to. I did want to tell this. There's a. A place called Sushi by Scratch, which started, I think in Austin and. And no. Yeah, so they have a location here. It's in the basement of the first Notre Dame Chance. The whole thing about Notre Damn Chance is they don't have hours, a phone number.

[Shane Merrill]

Is this where Sparky works?

[Chris]

You know Sparky?

[Bo]

Oh, Brian. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris]

This is where he works.

[Bo]

He works with Sushi by Scratch. Yeah.

[Chris]

He was also an Alpha Omega.

[Bo]

I know him. And he never even brought that up. He's in New York now.

[Chris]

We picked the right. He picked the right place.

[Bo]

Yeah. When you go to the. The Sushi by Scratch, it's an omakase. It's eight seats, 10 seats. Yeah. When you leave, you go through this burger bar. You have to like put in a code. It's like a speaking seat. Oh, when you leave, they tell you get some burgers. They're pretty good. That was the place it was impossible to get into. This exists now on Milwaukee. You can come in anytime and get some delicious beast fry. How are we feeling? Pretty good, right?

[Chris]

I mean this with utmost respect. You know, the Denny's seasoned fry. This is kind of like an elevated Denny's season fry mixed with the in and out animal style.

[Bo]

I love the Denny season fry.

[Chris]

This is the best thing I got.

[Bo]

These fries are also cooked in beef towels, so maybe. Maybe Jenny's is onto something.

[Chris]

I don't know anything about that. I don't know anything that RFK is doing. I want to know anything that he's doing, but big towels.

[Shane Merrill]

All right, I guess.

[Chris]

Tell me about some early Chicago hardcore memories for you.

[Chris Mills]

I would say weekend nachos at Albion House, Harm's Way at Beat Kitchen.

[Chris]

I'll play that too.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, you did with Code.

[Chris Mills]

Yes.

[Bo]

Played a lot of places here.

[Chris Mills]

One of my earlier bands played that show with you guys. Twitching Toms.

[Bo]

Which bed? Bitter Thoughts. A. Bitter Thoughts.

[Chris Mills]

Yeah, Yeah, I remember that. That was awesome.

[Bo]

How many bands are you in right now?

[Chris Mills]

I guess like 8, 7, 6. But not all of them. Not all of them do things.

[Chris]

Yeah, I know. Oh, I know.

[Chris Mills]

So, you know, I would say Home My Own is one of the main ones. I've. You know, I would say I'm an unofficial member of Endit. I'm so, like, I'm definitely playing with them a lot and just wanted to say the new record, I heard it and it's absolutely incredible. I know it's been talked about. It's awesome.

[Chris]

LP's gonna change the world.

[Bo]

The riffs are up.

[Chris Mills]

I've been spending the last three weeks learning them and my brain is mush right now.

[Bo]

He's kind of our Martin. Yeah. As like, you pick up. You seem to be able to pick up songs really quickly.

[Chris Mills]

Yeah, I think I would like to say so. I think I have this knack of playing for bands that I've literally never practiced with. I've never practiced with End It Once in my life.

[Chris]

I mean, that's an incredible skill.

[Chris Mills]

I've played like 50 shows with them, which is awesome.

[Bo]

Really? Yeah.

[Chris]

I always liked you. This is not your first time on our show, by the way.

[Bo]

No. Yes. No, no, no, it's not. I think ldb. Fya was it, FYI.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Chris Mills]

Hell yeah.

[Chris]

So welcome back.

[Chris Mills]

Thank you. I'm hyped to be here. Thank you.

[Chris]

How is Chicago hardcore changed from when you first got into now? Being a guy who's a mainstay in.

[Chris Mills]

A bunch of bands, it is so much expense. Exponentially better than when I got here. At the time that I was getting into it, there was not many people coming to shows. Granted, people are moshing very hard.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Chris Mills]

And it was fun. And I almost, you know, sometimes miss that in some. Some instances. And it'll happen still. But now there's like so many new Bands, like every day, like I. I turn a corner and there's a new band of new kids starting. Like every show is pretty much sold out. On a Monday show, a show will get sold out. It's just local bands, which is insane.

[Bo]

What are some new local bands you want to put?

[Chris]

Let's try out some bands.

[Chris Mills]

My favorite younger ones right now are these bands called Exit Service Augment, Absent Soul, and Face Hand. I mean, some of these bands are bands that don't even have demos out yet.

[Bo]

That's awesome.

[Chris Mills]

But they're just like kids who fucking love this shit.

[Bo]

How old do you think they are? I.

[Chris Mills]

They all range from. I would say probably like 19, 24 or some.

[Bo]

Like. That's beautiful.

[Chris]

You know what we need.

[Chris Mills]

So, like, that's awesome. I feel like when I was getting into it, like there was just like not as many of that. Not much of that happening.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

You know, I think between like 2010 and maybe Covid. Yeah, like that. 2018, like kind of that. That period. It's kind of the doldrums. We've talked about this before. Overall, everything was kind of low. Tide was out, you know, it's. That was the kind of the point in time where a lot of people maybe were here for college. They moved away. Sure. Or grew up and moved away.

[Chris Mills]

Absolutely. Whatever it is.

[Bo]

And now the youth are getting back. Things are happening. I would say.

[Chris]

There's always going to be touring bands. You know, the scene. Main. Overall, mainstays will always exist. Your scene is only as strong as your local. Only shows, you know. So if you're packing out rooms on a Monday night with only local bands, you've done it. So Chicago, an incredible place right now.

[Bo]

Yeah. You like records?

[Chris Mills]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Bo]

You collect records?

[Chris Mills]

I'm on and off about it, yeah.

[Chris]

You've made a few?

[Chris Mills]

I made a few. So that I feel like that makes me like them, I guess.

[Shane Merrill]

Where can we check some out?

[Bo]

There's a local spot around here. It's kind of remediated. It's called Reckless Records right across the street. Let's go. Should we go?

[Chris]

Here we are at Reckless Records. Tell me about this place, guys. How long you been coming here?

[Bo]

This was kind of. It was crazy. They moved the entire record store. It used to be further down Milwaukee. It was the only place I knew in the city when I first moved here to go stuff. There are others now, but this is. Such as Meteor Gems, such as Record Breakers, Signal, which is my personal favorite. There's two locations of Signal, both good.

[Chris]

We're just putting up. We're putting over the classic.

[Bo]

We're putting over the classic. It would be like going to LA and. And not stopping at Amoeba or something like that. Or Tower back in the day.

[Shane Merrill]

Sure.

[Chris]

You've been coming here for a while.

[Chris Mills]

Yeah, since middle school. My friends and I would take the train from Aurora, the metro train, and we'd spend a day out here. And then this was definitely a spot that we'd come to. And it's.

[Bo]

It's definitely a place that's going to have all the current records. We got Turnstile out on the. You know, the posters and stuff. They're gonna have the wall.

[Chris]

I love the wall.

[Bo]

Lots of crazy stuff on the wall.

[Chris]

We talk about the wall and the wall is like a general record store thing where they're not going to put the gold, the gold mine.

[Bo]

The.

[Chris]

The first pressings, the test presses, the tour pressings in the racks. They're going to have a nice little wall somewhere in the store. This is like Universal Worldwide. Kind of.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Where the. The more expensive rare will be there waiting for you. And we also. What's cool is like Discogs. I got a shout out Discogs real quick. For better or worse. You can look up any record store stock.

[Bo]

That's right.

[Chris]

And see what they have and either plan to pick it up or just order it online.

[Bo]

Yeah. Dirty little secret is most record stores, their inventory system is just their discox store.

[Chris]

So you can check it from home right now. What do they got?

[Bo]

What do they got? Trying to think of some stuff that I've gotten here. Yeah.

[Chris]

Anything you remember getting from Reckless that is pivotal to you.

[Chris Mills]

Yes. A maximum penalty. I'm forgetting the name of the cd.

[Chris]

Cd.

[Bo]

Yes.

[Chris]

What's on it? Is it two teenage girls?

[Chris Mills]

Could you love me, brother?

[Chris]

Super life.

[Bo]

Super Life. Super life. Super Life. Right.

[Chris]

That's a legit like in terms of hardcore songs and bands with melody. That's a like. I don't listen to that song one time. That's a 5 to 10 repeat listens in a row type song. Masterpiece.

[Bo]

Absolutely unbelievable.

[Chris]

I don't even got super life here.

[Chris Mills]

Yes.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Chris Mills]

Topic. But end it. I don't know if I should say this. Maybe not. I don't know.

[Chris]

No, you should.

[Bo]

You should. And if we have to cut it, we will. But go ahead. No, no.

[Chris]

It's already out there, I think. Or the information's out there.

[Chris Mills]

Okay. It's out there.

[Bo]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Mills]

Maybe it is. They're doing a could you love me cover on the God. On the record. It's amazing.

[Bo]

That's pretty.

[Shane Merrill]

That's perfect.

[Bo]

Full circle, right?

[Chris Mills]

Yeah.

[Chris]

It's perfect song for them.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And like, that song's not on streaming.

[Bo]

Aha.

[Chris]

It'll be the best version on streaming.

[Chris Mills]

Absolutely.

[Bo]

Other reasons I like Reckless. There's movies, there's tapes, there's vinyl, there's CDs, there's magazines.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Bo]

There's soundtracks and jazz. It's not all metal hardcore and stuff.

[Chris]

Very interesting.

[Bo]

Very well rounded. There's a Corn first pressing that's been on the wall for like two years now that I think is really funny. Nobody wants.

[Chris]

Nobody want that.

[Bo]

I think the most recent thing that I got, I got all of the Bjork Re issues.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Bo]

From here.

[Chris]

Very cool.

[Bo]

They got some stuff.

[Chris]

I got a question for you.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And you can take your time with us. Yeah. It's really important. Could you tell me your top four hardcore records of all time?

[Chris Mills]

Of all time. 25 to life. Keeping It Real EP.

[Chris]

Incredible answer.

[Chris Mills]

Yo. I mean, the guitar tones.

[Chris]

You will, dude.

[Eli]

Keep it real.

[Chris]

Strength or unity? Undeniable hardcore.

[Bo]

Absolutely.

[Chris Mills]

I would say that it's one of my favorite records in hardcore of all time because, you know, the guitar work is insane. There's like crazy dive bombs and guitar scratches. All the tones are awesome. You know, Colin's been a champion.

[Bo]

Hell, yeah.

[Chris Mills]

You know, years.

[Chris]

What can you do?

[Chris Mills]

I mean, say what you will about Rick, you know, he. He sucks. And he will, you know, talk me actively on Instagram to this day for. Even though one time I bailed his ass out in Chicago, he came here with no members and I played and learned all the songs and found members. So you.

[Bo]

Number two.

[Chris Mills]

I will say the killer. Not all who are lost.

[Bo]

Dude. That has. Dude, that's like the only one of that that I think they play. Yeah.

[Chris]

Typically, they played God Forgot for me.

[Bo]

Aha.

[Chris]

I was pitting my little ass off. Insane. Tell me about this record.

[Chris Mills]

It's just got crazy mosh parts to me, and it's just like dark. It's like.

[Bo]

It's weird.

[Chris Mills]

It's very weird.

[Chris]

It's very musical record. Very drum driven.

[Chris Mills]

The drums are insane.

[Chris]

Insane, dude.

[Bo]

All the. Yeah.

[Chris Mills]

Remus is an insane drummer.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris Mills]

Not to take away from better judged by 12 because it's obviously a classic. But I would say, you know, I. I've spent more time in my life probably listening to that record.

[Chris]

Yeah, me too.

[Chris Mills]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

That's my. That's my killer.

[Bo]

That's your killer? That's awesome. Hell, yeah. What I hope some of the takeaway is for those of you is like how important. It's not just me who loves the killer.

[Chris]

Chicago.

[Bo]

Chicago needs the killer. They're a very important band. Who's your number three?

[Chris Mills]

Absolutely. I'll go with Mad Ball.

[Bo]

Hold it down. Oh, you know was that 2000 defined.

[Chris]

The next 25 years of hardcore?

[Bo]

Wow.

[Chris Mills]

Absolutely, man. It's just a lot of amazing songs on there. Beto who played in 25 to Life Track guitars on this record.

[Chris]

Matt Henderson's last record was that.

[Bo]

I think so.

[Chris Mills]

Sounds about right.

[Bo]

His New York Hardcore EP was next and he wasn't on it.

[Chris]

Shout out Matt for the show.

[Chris Mills]

Yeah, man. Like that two combination right there.

[Chris]

You're unstoppable.

[Chris Mills]

I don't know what could be better.

[Chris]

The record is relentless.

[Bo]

Oh yeah. You say the first two songs, that.

[Chris Mills]

Combo or the two guitars.

[Chris]

It'S insane. It's a perfect hardcore.

[Bo]

So I've said many times that Can't Stop, Won't Stop is a perfect hardcore song. It's perfect start to finish. I love when there are songs a lot like we gotta know in a world Peace. You can't hear the one end without a hold it down starting after Can't Stop, Won't Stop. I love that because it just becomes like in the Silas, like what are they going to play next? Yeah. And it's perfect. So I love that. Great answer. Hell yeah.

[Chris]

One more.

[Chris Mills]

I think right now, you know, this answer is always changing. So I think right now I'm really into Death Threat Piece of Security. You know that will.

[Chris]

Unbelievable.

[Chris Mills]

You know, it's just. It's one of those records I know every lyric to and it's just the best vocal performance in hardcore. I think so.

[Chris]

And it's a. You can. He enunciates every single word. He means everything he's saying. And you know that the riffs are unique. You got Jamie push button on the kit.

[Bo]

Yep.

[Chris]

Timeless, iconic performance. He still hits every single one of them notes live. It's beautiful. What a band.

[Bo]

Oh, absolutely.

[Chris Mills]

Yeah. Yeah, dude. Third. Yeah. And like I can picture moments in my life when I was younger and I was listening to that, getting hardcore like, I don't know, people that were older than me were like, yo, Death Threat's the band. You know, like they played one of the rumbles like earlier on and when I went and.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris Mills]

I just love that band, man.

[Chris]

Great answer.

[Bo]

Great answer.

[Chris]

Unbelievable.

[Bo]

Strong.

[Chris Mills]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris]

What do you hope for the young people in Chicago Hardcore now to take away from what's Happening now or to move forward with. What do you, what, what do you want hardcore to be?

[Chris Mills]

You know, just like having fun and being yourself and putting in, you know, your, your effort, whatever it is, you know, everyone has that special thing that they're good at and there's so much to, you know, contribute to the scene. And I think just like doing it in a positive manner, I think is the best way. You know, there's a lot of bullshit hardcore, you know, a lot of, you know, whatever. But like at the end of the day, we're all here for the same reason. There's no reason why, you know, everyone should be, you know, friends and hanging out and just doing heart loving hardcore, you know, So I want to see less fucking bullshit. Just one scene. I know it's corny, but like, you know, when it's happening in Chicago, you know, punk bands are playing with hardcore bands, death metal bands are playing with hardcore bands. So what can, what more can ask for you?

[Bo]

It's all one thing.

[Chris]

Take off the costumes. Yeah, well, yeah, Start a zine book shows. Start a band.

[Bo]

This is a.

[Chris]

For the love of God, play drums.

[Bo]

This is a really important topic. Back in the day, people were writing songs for other people, writing lyrics for other people, designing stuff for other people. You might not be able to. To write riffs. You can contribute in other ways. You know what I mean?

[Chris]

And you absolutely can.

[Bo]

And you absolutely can. I promise you you can.

[Chris]

If you're cool enough and you have a. And you know, if you're just a good person and you stick around long enough, it'll pay off.

[Bo]

You can. But the point is everyone can contribute if they want to. You have something you can do no matter what.

[Chris]

Dude, the biggest contribution you can make in hardcore is showing up and participating.

[Bo]

Participation.

[Chris]

Because God knows the when. When people say this band's set was so crazy at this or that their set was so amazing, it's because of the participation a lot of the time.

[Bo]

Yeah, they're not.

[Chris]

Performance is secondary.

[Bo]

They're not Dillinger, you know, it's like no band is blowing fire.

[Chris]

Yeah, we don't need fireballs. We don't.

[Bo]

We need the crowd.

[Chris]

You don't need to climb the rafters to have the best set ever. You can, you absolutely can and you will probably should.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

But the, the participation, the reaction is what makes something special. And that's all you. So please keep doing it.

[Bo]

Beautiful shot. Yeah.

[Chris]

Let's look around.

[Bo]

Let's do it.

[Chris Mills]

Three inches of blood. Skateboarding got me this bit.

[Bo]

So these Are all the seven inches? I love a seven inch. Yeah, you know, they have shoes and stuff, but they also have a 7 inch wall. Oh, and they have stuff. This is where I got all the misfits. Bootloots. That's sick. Because I'm never gonna get a real one.

[Chris]

Sure.

[Bo]

Like. Or all of them. At least I got all the bootlegs. Hell yeah.

[Chris]

Together as one. The homie Ian. My inner good.

[Bo]

Yeah. He got more. He got cool move. Oh, no. Okay, I don't get.

[Chris]

So.

[Bo]

What you say? Okay.

[Chris]

All right. That is ends our time with an. Thank you so much for. Well, unless we may see you later.

[Bo]

I mean we might. You're free today, right? Yeah. Okay. Maybe we'll run in.

[Shane Merrill]

I don't know.

[Bo]

We'll see.

[Chris]

You can see action on tour tomorrow, wherever you are. He'll be there.

[Bo]

Just look him up.

[Chris]

Putting on for the Chicagoland as always.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah, brother.

[Chris]

Congrats on the. The baby.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah. Congratulations.

[Chris]

Thank you.

[Bo]

Thank you, papa. All right.

[Chris Mills]

Thank you, guys.

[Bo]

Beautiful. Yeah. You go somewhere else.

[Chris]

All right, Sounds good.

[Bo]

Do you know what I want?

[Chris]

What?

[Bo]

Little sweet treat, I think. Yeah.

[Chris]

Pardon this interruption. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.

[Bo]

Boy, is it ever.

[Chris]

That's M A D D vintage dot com. Every band we talk about on this show, damn near every week you can find 20, 30, 40 years old sitting, waiting for you on mad vintage.com.

[Bo]

He'S got everything from punk, hardcore metal, hip hop, wrestling, movie stuff.

[Chris]

That's right.

[Bo]

He's got it all.

[Chris]

And listen, some of these shirts have survived for so long in single owner households, if you let us buy them, we're going to cut them up and do God knows what to them.

[Bo]

Look at this.

[Chris]

So you need to save these shirts. They're sitting waiting for you to be saved on maddvintage.com mad ball, agnostic front, anything else that people from Mad Ball and Agnostic Front were in you can find on madventures.com so please act fast. But if you use code hardler15, you're going to get 15% off.

[Bo]

And that might not sound like a lot go on that site. That's going to add up for you.

[Chris]

It's going to add up. Okay? So quit around. Okay.

[Bo]

And also keep in mind that if you catch Luke, Mr. Mad Vintage at any fests that are happening. He was at Tie Down. He was at the Rumble. He was at that Helferia fest just now. He's looking to buy, he's looking to sell, he's looking to trade. Talk to Him. Reach out to him through the Instagram. You never know, just send them a message.

[Chris]

He's a very nice guy. He's got good stuff. So what are we doing here?

[Bo]

This is Margie's Candy. It's a old ass ice cream shop that I go to all the time.

[Chris]

Oh my God.

[Eli]

What's up guys?

[Chris]

Chris Mills from Harm's Way.

[Bo]

This is my guy. This is my best friend, my drummer to you. Good to see you. Oh, so good. You're at your, your usual four, four o'? Clock?

[Eli]

Yeah, it's about the time I roll up, so.

[Chris]

Well, let's go in and get something sweet.

[Bo]

Sounds great.

[Eli]

Let's go check it out.

[Chris]

So this is like a Chicago mainstay.

[Bo]

This is an ice creamery that has been open 1921.

[Chris]

That you don't see things like that in America a lot.

[Bo]

It's a little crazy. You can tell by a thing happens when a place is like old where it's like that booth fits and then a new booth is added and there are different styles. Doesn't matter. That's kind of the vibe again.

[Chris]

That makes sense.

[Bo]

It's old.

[Chris]

You come here a lot?

[Eli]

Been a few times.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Eli]

You know, I feel like when we were younger, yeah, this was like the.

[Chris]

Spot, you know, I mean this is like I see from the dishes alone that it's like an iconic kids place maybe.

[Bo]

Yeah, it was just like an iconic place in general after like five, six. There's gonna be a line down the street, straight up down the street all summer. Yeah.

[Chris]

Really?

[Bo]

It's crazy. They're open all year long, but for obvious reasons, the summer is.

[Chris]

Because it is, it's been blazing. Well, you don't want to touch my leg like that.

[Eli]

I was really tight in here.

[Chris]

I was comfortable. Chris, tell me about finding purple music in Chicago as a young child.

[Eli]

Well, I had, I had another brother who introduced me to punk and hardcore like a pretty young age. I remember, you know, kind of getting into like Green Day and like Blink and just kind of like the entry point band.

[Bo]

Sure, sure.

[Eli]

You know, and I think the minute he saw me vibing with that stuff, he was kind of like, oh, hey, like here's a, here's, here's, here's Fugazi. You know, here's.

[Chris]

Was Shane like friends with your brother and stuff?

[Eli]

No, no, it was. My brother wasn't like as involved with like the scene, so to speak, you know, and he was probably a little bit older than, than Shane. He was more of like, like a punkhead.

[Bo]

Yeah. Mohawk no.

[Eli]

One time he dyed his hair.

[Bo]

Bleach. I remember he shaved his head.

[Eli]

He shaved his head a lot. Yeah.

[Bo]

Didn't he take you to your first show? He did. Which was.

[Eli]

Which was just down the street from here at the Congress Theater. Fugazi in shellac.

[Chris]

That's a sick first show.

[Bo]

Pretty crazy.

[Eli]

12, 13, I think I was going into eighth grade.

[Chris]

That's awesome.

[Bo]

So for those of you who don't know, I have talked about him many times before, but Chris is my old head. He's only a couple months old, but he is how I found this music.

[Shane Merrill]

And we've.

[Bo]

I would say we very much kind of got involved locally together.

[Eli]

Absolutely.

[Chris]

You've been in bands together the whole time?

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Chris]

You've been going shows together? Did you go to. You went to school together?

[Eli]

Yes.

[Bo]

What's that like?

[Eli]

Yeah. Well, I mean, we. We, like, really didn't become homies till high school.

[Bo]

Right.

[Chris]

Tell me about that.

[Bo]

Yes. Shane, what was. What was Young Bow like?

[Chris]

Tell me as much as you can about. But. But both of you, you know.

[Eli]

Well, I mean, there's some pretty funny, like, stories of us prior to actually becoming.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Oh, beef. Right.

[Bo]

In, like, the middle school kind of. Yeah. So Chris and I lived kind of. We were separated by this pond in our town in Roseau.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Bo]

He was a grade older than me, so I became friends with all my friends in, like, fifth and sixth grade. So he's in middle school. He's older than us, obviously. Me and this. Me and these two guys. One also named Chris, we were walking behind. He and Chris had some beef over something. I don't remember what it was.

[Chris]

Chris remembers what?

[Bo]

I have no idea. I don't remember why, man.

[Eli]

I have no idea.

[Bo]

But we were actually. We're across this pond on a path, and we know Chris's house in, like, the. His back patio faces this pond. Yeah. And the other Chris, who I'm with was like, I'm going to moon him. And mooned Chris's house. Chris Mills, my beloved. Here we go. Perfect. Perfect timing. Thank you so much.

[Chris]

Those are big scoops.

[Bo]

Oh, go.

[Shane Merrill]

Thank you so much.

[Bo]

Thank you. Perfect timing.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Chris Mills, my beloved, happened to be on his computer, looked out because he saw three kids walking by this pond. And it's like a football field, probably a distance. Like, it's. It's a.

[Chris]

But that's your pond in your mind.

[Eli]

My pond? Goose Lake Park.

[Bo]

Goose Lake park runs outside and starts like, I'm gonna kick your ass across the pile.

[Chris]

Wow.

[Bo]

And what's Funny is like, you know, the meme of like the dogs barking, then the gate closes and they just chill. Yeah, they need that.

[Chris]

Was it like that?

[Bo]

Like nobody, nobody wanted to fight.

[Eli]

I wasn't fighting anybody. And also I turned around, I went back in, started playing Starcraft.

[Chris]

Well, you just didn't want to see his ass in that moment.

[Bo]

Well, yeah, it was. There was disrespect.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Won't be disgraced. Disgraceful. You would be disgraced, basically. And also the other Chris was like huge.

[Eli]

Oh yeah.

[Bo]

Much bigger than Chris Menzaro was big.

[Eli]

Bigger than I am right now as a really.

[Bo]

Oh yeah.

[Chris]

Thank you so much.

[Bo]

Thank you. This looks fantastic. So then ironically, me and the other guy. Me and the other guy who I was with at the pond, we made a song making fun of this guy. And that was the first. Yeah.

[Chris]

Now why.

[Shane Merrill]

It was just like, why'd you fall.

[Chris]

Out with Chris, man? He might be watching.

[Bo]

Because this. Chris was into punk and Brian and I were into skating. We wanted to be in the punk.

[Chris]

So other Chris was just out there basically assaulting people with his ass.

[Bo]

You do that all the time. You assault people with your ass? Hourly. Oh, hourly. Damn near hourly.

[Chris]

That's a different sense though. Different sense being offended. Okay.

[Bo]

Yeah, so we. We wrote like a funny song and somehow he heard it.

[Eli]

It was like.

[Bo]

I don't even know how that happens in 1999.

[Eli]

Yeah, it was like a, you know, like a late night sleepover. Like 3am Got the giggles. Delirious.

[Chris]

PP haha is making a song.

[Eli]

That was it.

[Chris]

What's better than that?

[Bo]

So the kids. I don't know if we should say his last name, but his last. His name is Manaro. And the song was called Manara God. And it was like one of us drumming on like a. A magazine and then someone playing shitty guitarist. And Chris Manora God is back to Cal. And like that was the song. It was.

[Chris]

That was YouTube today.

[Bo]

That was YouTube today. That Was. That was our. Our literal project.

[Chris]

What are the bands and shows that kept you coming back early?

[Eli]

Well, you know, what's interesting is like we grew up in like a suburb, right. And it was, you know, kind of isolated from the city, you know, but we were playing like, we were like. We're in punk bands playing non. Not punk shows, essentially. Right. Like in our suburb, it's like if you just played in a band, you played shows together.

[Chris]

Sure.

[Eli]

Sort of thing, you know. So honestly, like, you know, fast forward to probably sophomore year. Well, I mean, actually, you know, we were going to shows in the city freshman year and stuff like that. But, like, we weren't really, like, involved in, like, the Chicago hardcore scene or like, the dupage county hardcore scene until probably, like, middle midway through high school.

[Chris]

Did you want to be, dude?

[Eli]

Oh, yeah, absolutely, dude. I mean, it was. It was finding the Chicago hardcore.net message board that essentially opened up the doors for us to connect with other people, connect with other, like, hardcore bands, you know?

[Bo]

So in addition to Chris and I being bandmates and lifelong lovers, we also work together in many places, including Subway. Same Subway. Talk about. Talk about Ashok today, actually. Remember how he used to park at the back of the parking lot and watch you? Oh, yeah. Isn't that crazy? Because Anut's last name is the same as Chabra.

[Chris]

No relation.

[Bo]

No relation.

[Eli]

Thank God.

[Bo]

Chris and I worked at the daycare, the Park District, together as well. Chris set up a show, and this show is actually insane because every single bake band that played had more than one member in it of people who would go on to be, like, our bandmates and close friends.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Wow. It was nuts. It was plan of attack. Sidewalk. Our band. Double Crossed.

[Eli]

Too sweet.

[Bo]

Too sweet. Gozerian.

[Chris]

Sick name. No, no, Go.

[Eli]

Zarian didn't play. Winner Kills all.

[Bo]

Winter Kills All. So it was like Drew played drums. So, like, everyone in nachos played in a band. James was there.

[Chris]

Wow.

[Bo]

We played. It was. It's actually like a crazy first dominoes moment. Yeah. You know?

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Chris]

So did you. Did you all know each other at this time, or is this kind of where you are?

[Bo]

We were the new kids.

[Eli]

We were the new kids. And basically, like, I had become friends with John Caution on the Chicago hardcore.net message board.

[Chris]

Was he a little back then, too?

[Bo]

Oh, yeah. The biggest little.

[Eli]

But amazing, too. Just, like, so welcoming at that point, you know, he was just like, I love John. Yeah. Just, you know, wanting to get people involved and like I said to reach out to him, like, hey, like, I work at this. I work at this park district, and, you know, one Friday a month, they allow us to throw shows. Like, I'm thinking about throwing together.

[Bo]

Incredible, dude. Some of the happiest times of my life.

[Eli]

Yeah, Legit.

[Bo]

We're working there.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Bo]

All of our. Our entire band work there. Uhhuh. So imagine that. Watching kids. Like, we're responsible for children.

[Chris]

That's pretty.

[Bo]

We're barely 16, 17. Yeah. So still around. Yeah. So it's the Bloomingdale Park District.

[Eli]

We know Park District, and, like, we would do shows in. Literally in the gymnasium and sounded like. Sounded terrible. And so I should say as John, I was like, hey, would you guys want to like he was in a band called Sidewalk. And I can't remember if he was still playing drums and Plan of Attack at that point or if he had quit.

[Bo]

I know he wasn't because he was heckling Bill while they were playing.

[Eli]

Funny. Yeah, yeah, right. Cuz Sidewalk was kind of his band directly after Plan Attack.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Eli]

So I think Hofacker was playing drums for Planet Attack at that point. And essentially he helped me like get bands together to play and help me put the show together. And it was. It was crazy.

[Bo]

Like there was legitimately a couple hundred people in Roselle, which is like.

[Eli]

And it was. Yeah, dude, I remember, Remember it was. They had the gymnasium split in half and like one half gymnasium was the show.

[Bo]

Right.

[Eli]

The other half they just had the basketball courts open. And on the other side, you know, James playing basketball, Rick playing basketball.

[Bo]

Yep.

[Eli]

Luke playing basketball, Charlie. Like just all our later friends and scary friends.

[Chris]

So the Killer. The killer shows up to this show.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Wow.

[Bo]

Dude, it rolls off 100. And you want to know the most beautiful thing about this? Imagine it was the first day I had my license. I got my license that day. Borrowed my dad's Toyota Celica that day, drove to the show. We played the show. It was snowy out. Where else do you eat after this phenomenal show but the Lake Street Portillo's. Yeah, the entire show.

[Eli]

The entire show is there.

[Bo]

Went to this Portillo's that's really walking.

[Chris]

You never forget Foreman.

[Bo]

Yeah. Truly a Corman.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Chris]

So how long after this until har starts? Six, seven years.

[Eli]

No, two. Probably two years.

[Bo]

Yeah. 2006 is when technically the first the demo came out.

[Eli]

Yeah. This is probably 04.

[Bo]

Yeah. That was 03. It was 03.

[Eli]

03.

[Bo]

Beginning of 03.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Bo]

So probably Few in the Proud started shortly thereafter. And then Harm's Way kind of came out of that, out of necessity. But we like back in the day, I would have put money down that Few in the Proud was going to be the band, like make it.

[Chris]

It's always how it works.

[Bo]

You know what I mean?

[Eli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bo]

And then we started doing Everybody Switched but me on instruments. Cuz Chris was playing guitar. If you were proud Chris. Chris is one of those guitar players. One of those drummers who can also play guitar. Yeah. Who can just like. Because you're thinking of the drum part, you could write.

[Chris]

Might as well.

[Bo]

You know what I mean?

[Eli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bo]

And so when we switched and we just Started writing stuff for Harm's Way because we wanted James to sing. We thought that would be kind of a novelty.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Bo]

And that was it. Yeah.

[Eli]

No intention of really doing anything more than writing the demo and laughing at James.

[Chris]

You know what's better?

[Bo]

The first show was at DePaul University, which is a venue. I don't talk about that much on the show, but it's a literal university and in these two classrooms, they would have shows. It was like some student for four years was. Did shows. And those were probably my favorite shows in.

[Chris]

In your life ever.

[Bo]

Or for young person.

[Eli]

There was just some. His historical shows that happened there, like.

[Bo]

And it was just fun.

[Chris]

Did you book many other shows other.

[Eli]

Than that was like my one and only show.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Chris]

I mean, so you went out on top.

[Eli]

I went on top.

[Bo]

Truly.

[Chris]

What's up?

[Bo]

Yeah. Oh, where was I going with the DePaul thing?

[Eli]

Harm's way's first show.

[Bo]

Harm's Way's first show. First note. James crushed a microphone. He broke it into pieces. And I'm not making that up. Everyone saw it and we just like started and it just went. Just crumbled. Pieces crumpled. A 58.

[Chris]

How I was. Was it a true 58?

[Bo]

I don't remember.

[Chris]

Might have been more of a 48.

[Bo]

It was in pieces, I'll tell you. Wow. Yeah, you sucked that down.

[Chris]

What do you mean?

[Bo]

Pretty good, right?

[Chris]

Yeah, I like it. That's.

[Eli]

I mean, it's a classic.

[Chris]

I would come here knowing them. Oh, tell me about how Chicago heard hardcore has changed since you've gotten into it.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Eli]

I think it was interesting. When I first started going to shows, there was, I won't say like division, but there was like a lot of different scenes, I would say, you know, like, there was like, shows happening in the suburbs, in DuPage, and shows happen in the city, and then there was like shows happening in like the far south side, like the. More the thrash core. South core stuff, you know, and. Yeah, and I would say, like, over time there's been a lot more of.

[Chris]

It's one united thing.

[Eli]

Yeah, I've noticed that it seems that way at least. Like, you know, I think there's still like a. There's obviously still more DIY spaces that are in existence, for sure, stuff like that. But like, it felt way more divided at one point where, like now you see a lot more. I say mixed build stuff totally kind of happening and whatnot, you know.

[Chris]

Do you think it's in a better place now?

[Eli]

It seems so. I mean, like, I can't believe how big shows are now.

[Bo]

Have Heart played here to seven people. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So it just like Chicago can't.

[Chris]

I mean, it can be tough.

[Bo]

Absolutely. It can be tough for us.

[Chris]

Tough to get over.

[Eli]

There was a. Yeah, there was like a while there when I played that have Heart show at this other band I was in called Expired Youth at that time. And there was like a. There. There was a time when like bands that were blowing up on the coasts that were super hype just would come through Chicago and it would be a dud.

[Chris]

Wow.

[Eli]

Right. And like Chicago felt really kind of insular at that time too. And prideful in that sense. Yeah. And there was like a. This Midwest chip on your shoulder kind of mentality. Right. But you know, now it's just like, I. I don't know.

[Chris]

Everything's good.

[Eli]

Everything is good. Everybody's having fun.

[Chris]

There's a lot of great local band.

[Bo]

A.B. we. We were talking earlier about how when you and I walk into a show, now we don't know we know five people, it's pretty crazy, but it's a good crazy. That's an important, A healthy thing for any community is that you and I are somehow now some of the oldest people in the room.

[Eli]

Yeah, it's kind of.

[Shane Merrill]

It's crazy.

[Chris]

It's kind of crazy.

[Bo]

Best. It is for the best. Yeah, absolutely.

[Chris]

It's for them. Can you tell me, Chris, and you can think about this. Take your time. Take that bite. You're gonna want. You're gonna want that bite.

[Bo]

Dude. The marshmallow was really good actually.

[Chris]

Oh, good, good, good. It's like a fluff.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Speaking of fluff, can you tell me your top four parkour records of all time?

[Eli]

Okay, I'd probably go. Marauder Master Killer.

[Chris]

Pretty good.

[Eli]

Chromag's Age of Coral.

[Chris]

Pretty good.

[Eli]

Use it today. We're not in the salon. And then I'm gonna throw like an.

[Bo]

Oddball one fourth one always is.

[Eli]

But this is like a record that's very sentimental to me and kind of going back to my first show and like, what kind of got me into this in a lot of ways. And probably Fugazi's repeater.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Eli]

You know, and you know, some might argue like, hey, like, is that a hardcore record? Is it not? I would argue 100 is because the ethos of that band is 100 the most punk. Yeah, absolutely.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Eli]

And that was just like an entry point for me to just like think.

[Bo]

About.

[Eli]

Punk and hardcore in like not a very one dimensional way, you know, And Just, you know, made this music feel so much bigger to me than just the sound.

[Chris]

Beautiful.

[Bo]

Right?

[Eli]

So I have to go with those four great answers.

[Shane Merrill]

Good answers.

[Bo]

I mean, three out of four. Is this my friend or what? Yeah.

[Chris]

Honestly, can you tell me before we wrap this up, maybe a couple good young Bo stories, Young Chris stories.

[Bo]

Feel free.

[Chris]

Just guys at shows growing together.

[Bo]

Because, because like I truly. While you think, let me explain. I tried truly mean that, like spoons flying. All of the stories you guys that I've told on the show are mostly the fireside thing. When I was like punishing Wes, Chris was there. Yeah, you and I remember you and I borrowed Jared.

[Eli]

Yeah, dude. I just, I was just with Naraj yesterday and I mentioned that story because I was like, you know, like, I don't really know Jared, but Jared's one of my favorite drummers of all time. And actually he is responsible for us getting home from the fireside. When we saw True Suicide File in.

[Bo]

American Nightmare Garage played in Suicide File.

[Chris]

And didn't you call him Jason Alexander?

[Bo]

I did. I said oh, like, like the, like George and Chris was like embarrassing him in front of his favorite drummer. But I was also. I literally was 15. Yeah.

[Chris]

And that's.

[Bo]

Used his phone to call my dad and he came and picked us up.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's HC dude. Thank you, Jared. Give me some other ones. Give me, give me a young bow.

[Eli]

Young bow. And Chris and, and, and Chris. I mean dude, we. We got.

[Chris]

Think about it.

[Eli]

We got into a lot of.

[Chris]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bo]

Trouble.

[Eli]

I always think about like the stupid we did like specifically me like getting tattooed at family and losing your car key. So Chris got children.

[Bo]

Was it your first tattoo or your second tattoo?

[Eli]

First or second?

[Bo]

Chris and I have matching butt tattoos. Cuz our first band double cross. We all got DC on our butts. Well, Chris is getting his second tattoo at family tattoo. Friends of the show shout out Lee. I. He got. He was done. I started getting tattoo. I think I got the fiend skull. Wow. And he borrowed my car keys to go. To go to my car and he. To get something. He came back. I said hey, can I have my keys? And he was like lost, just gone, gone, Never, never found. So we had to call James. James drove from Naperville.

[Eli]

Dude.

[Bo]

So pick us up crazy. To go to my dad's in Streamwood to then come back to the city.

[Eli]

Which was like 35 miles from like the city.

[Bo]

Sure. Drive. Is it like round trip? James probably was like three hours for. He just did it because he's the man, but that was crazy. Trying to think of. Dude, do you remember, like, okay, we played the Kingston show on our. On the first Harm's Way tour. We played. We showed up Kingston, New York. Ah. We. Well, actually, first Katie, K80, the homie haunted house. Colin stayed at K80s house in Nashville.

[Chris]

First tour.

[Eli]

This is the haunted story, right? The haunted house.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah, dude. We were gonna go there. We were gonna stay with her in Brooklyn one time.

[Chris]

Don't shoot.

[Bo]

Fell asleep on us. We all slept in a parking garage in the van.

[Shane Merrill]

Nice.

[Bo]

Then we drove. We played the show where these kids, like, thought they had something set up. They didn't. It ended up being an open mic. We played three short songs and got the out of there.

[Chris]

Smart.

[Bo]

And I drove. We're supposed to be going to Syracuse. And I drove basically to Canada. Yep. First tour. Yep. First real tour. Yep.

[Eli]

Ended up near Montreal.

[Bo]

Near Montreal because I started seeing signs that says American money accepted.

[Eli]

And I was like, wait, what do you mean?

[Chris]

How many hours from that were Syracuse? Like five.

[Bo]

Like, I think. I think from the way it was, like three. I drove three hours out of it. This is pre. Gps. Pre. We were on map plus. Yeah.

[Chris]

Printed.

[Bo]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. The first. I think our first three tours were all printed. Dude. Our.

[Eli]

We had a binder.

[Bo]

We had a binder. Played our first two tours, played the Lions, then in Brockton.

[Chris]

Nice.

[Bo]

Met. Met young Coa. Wow.

[Eli]

We stayed at. Stayed at that house.

[Bo]

The Animal house. Yeah.

[Eli]

Our singer slept on a. Like a bench press.

[Bo]

Like a weight.

[Shane Merrill]

Convicted.

[Bo]

This was few in the proud. Which Convicted came from.

[Chris]

Okay. Who was in f. Proud.

[Bo]

F. Proud was us, too. James on bass. James, first band. Great bass player. Actually.

[Chris]

I believe that he's a great, great writer.

[Bo]

Perfect style. You can jump with that mother. Caution played drums. And then this guy, Bernie Caution plays drums. Caution's a great drummer. Really. Very good drummer.

[Chris]

What an interesting guy.

[Bo]

Great drummer, very talented.

[Eli]

Big, big influence on my early drumming.

[Chris]

Who are your biggest drumming influences?

[Bo]

Good question.

[Chris]

I know Remus is a big one.

[Eli]

I love Remus. Love Remus. Jared Alexander. Just to bring him. Bring them back. You know, we talked about our friend Drew. Like, if we're talking local guys like our friend. Our friend Drew, who played. Who later played a few in the proud. And we can now check.

[Chris]

There's three great drummers in Moscows.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Eli]

Yes.

[Bo]

Well, at least two. At least two. Yeah.

[Chris]

You know you're dissing your brother, Hunter.

[Bo]

My brother will be fine.

[Chris]

He's still Byron. Looters on stuff, on everything.

[Bo]

That's so on Facebook.

[Chris]

Really?

[Bo]

Yes.

[Chris]

Okay. That's not even a bit anymore. That's. That's.

[Bo]

I mean it's been Dysphoria. It's been like 12 years.

[Chris]

Name dysphoria. This was fantastic.

[Bo]

Yeah. I'm trying to think. There was one more. Oh, a fun tidbit about that Jared Alexander. Fireside Story. We were just literally just talking to him and mentioned that we liked Roto and he was like, new record's really good. I just finished drumming on it. You guys are going to like.

[Chris]

It was that Haymaker.

[Shane Merrill]

Haymaker.

[Bo]

Yeah. So it was that we. That early on.

[Chris]

Good job, Jared.

[Bo]

Very good.

[Shane Merrill]

J.

[Eli]

He doesn't.

[Bo]

He.

[Eli]

I remember him being in the music video.

[Bo]

That's right. The X Flashes.

[Chris]

Damn.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Couple. Couple people we know in the music video for Haymaker. Yeah.

[Chris]

In the Never Back down video or something.

[Bo]

No, it's for myself. I think Dre's in it for sure.

[Chris]

But there's a lot of LA dudes he was pitting. Wow. Beautiful stuff. This was incredible.

[Bo]

Tasty, right? Yeah.

[Chris]

Now I think we got to work off all these calories.

[Bo]

Yeah. If only there was some kind of recreational exhibition of sport we could all participate in as.

[Chris]

As a full group.

[Bo]

Let out, see what everybody else is doing.

[Chris]

That's right, motherfuckers. It is the legendary Fireside Bowl.

[Bo]

We figured what better way to cap off a perfect day than chuck a couple balls down the lanes, huh?

[Chris]

And I'm. This is maybe the most iconic Chicago hardcore venue of all time, bar none. And I've never been here.

[Bo]

Never been inside.

[Chris]

Never been inside. Let's check it out.

[Bo]

Let's check it out. After you. Ah. Now, keep in mind, this is old. This is classic. This is Americana.

[Chris]

I wonder if anybody's here.

[Bo]

Yeah, there's always somebody hanging out. You know, I can't really predict necess.

[Chris]

Are you kidding me?

[Bo]

Is that Chris, Shane. And on. Who just pulled a 7 4?

[Chris]

Guys.

[Bo]

Boys. Again.

[Chris]

Again.

[Bo]

What the hell?

[Chris]

Incredible day.

[Bo]

Wow. This is crazy.

[Chris]

Where you are currently standing and where are you are currently watching us from your point of view is the point of view of every artist that ever played the Fireside Bowl. Cuz you are currently on the very stage where every single band plays.

[Bo]

Sure is.

[Chris]

Tell me about.

[Bo]

Yeah, Shane, come here.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Tell me about the Fireside Bowl. Tell me about booking stuff here, seeing shows here.

[Bo]

How.

[Chris]

How was this the most iconic venue?

[Shane Merrill]

The first year or two, there was no stage and you just were on the floor right here. Then things started to get a little crazy. So they they built this stage which still stands here, and now it's like where they house all the bowling balls, but this is still the exact same.

[Eli]

So.

[Chris]

David Havoc.

[Bo]

Yeah. Bowling balls.

[Shane Merrill]

Well, there was no bowling balls in the stage, but yeah, but now. Yeah, baby.

[Bo]

Havoc. Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

A lot of times. Afi. A lot of those.

[Chris]

Yeah. What are some legendary gigs you booked here or went to?

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, one of my favorites I always talk about is Entombed Hatred and Bloodlet did a tour and they played here. Entombed was on to Ride, shooting Speak the Truth and Hate had just come out with. And Bloodlet open that. Yeah, that was a. That was a cool show.

[Chris]

And this is the stage. So if you back up, this is the pov.

[Shane Merrill]

Yep.

[Chris]

Was this the same floor?

[Bo]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

Yep. So same tiles and everything.

[Chris]

This is the pit.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah, this is it. But it would be so packed, you know, depending on the show.

[Chris]

Was this open?

[Bo]

Yeah, but they would split it. They would put like a. A gate almost.

[Shane Merrill]

It's like that orange construction fence that you see at, like, festivals and stuff. That was all right. Right where the wood could get damaged. That's where it started.

[Chris]

What would technically the capacity be.

[Bo]

Legal.

[Chris]

Or what we actually fit what you did?

[Bo]

Well, they don't do it anymore, so I think the statute's up.

[Shane Merrill]

Legal capacity was 179.

[Chris]

Holy hell.

[Shane Merrill]

We had some shows, L7 Melvin Slapstick, where there was 800 people in there.

[Bo]

800 people. So you're talking people all the way.

[Shane Merrill]

Back and in some cases even on the lanes. That happened a couple times early on. And then the owner's like, no more of that. But it did happen a couple times.

[Chris]

Why this place is still open. It's still an active bowling alley. Why can't shows happen here?

[Shane Merrill]

Because the owner just got tired of it. He's not really a music guy.

[Chris]

And it's the same owner to this day.

[Shane Merrill]

Same owner? Yes. I think if he was maybe 10 or 15 years older, I might have had a chance to work something out with him. But he's not ready to retire yet.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Chris and I played our first band, Double Cross, played here. One of our crowning achievements. I remember Double Cross right when the door was closed and we got in.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, I remember.

[Bo]

I think it was the last hardcore show here. Who else played? Comeback Kid, Champion, Allegiance and Allegiance and Double Cross Open, but somebody didn't.

[Shane Merrill]

That's got to be one of the.

[Eli]

Last ones here, I want to say. Maybe Champion had to drop for some reason or another.

[Bo]

Or maybe just come back. No Comeback could Definitely play.

[Eli]

I think it was champion.

[Bo]

I think. I think you're right. Those.

[Eli]

Us. Maybe one.

[Bo]

One more.

[Shane Merrill]

Okay, one more.

[Bo]

Yeah, that's it. But it was our best show. The pictures were sick. You know, we made it on a couple shirts.

[Shane Merrill]

Earth Crisis. Any. Any Earth Crisis show. Like on the Gomorrah's tour. There was a couple here. Those were awesome. Strife here was amazing. There's a lot of good ones. A lot of good ones.

[Bo]

Underdog. I saw the Killer here with blood and blood out.

[Chris]

How many times did the Killer play?

[Shane Merrill]

We didn't play her that often because when we started it, it was like, really?

[Chris]

Really.

[Shane Merrill]

So maybe a couple times.

[Chris]

2005 show stop.

[Shane Merrill]

Would you say 04 or 05? But we were only a couple years old at the time, so, I mean, we did play a few shows here.

[Eli]

I want to say I saw you guys with All Out War and Young.

[Bo]

Horat here, maybe, I think.

[Eli]

Does that sound about right?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

And 25 wife played that show.

[Bo]

How many times did Ringworm play?

[Shane Merrill]

That is a good question.

[Bo]

Dang.

[Shane Merrill]

I missed that.

[Chris]

You'll see it first Pit Wipeout since 2004.

[Shane Merrill]

Played here a bunch before I was in the picture. 94. 95. And then they went away for a while and came back. But definitely, like, on Bertha's Pain and stuff. They played here a lot. Yeah.

[Chris]

How many bands showed up thinking this was bull? Was maybe a. A euphemism.

[Shane Merrill]

Napal death.

[Bo]

Oh.

[Shane Merrill]

The rest of the band walks in first. I was at the door. That's pretty much exactly what he said. They were all witnessing it as they walked in. But most of the band was like. I could tell on their face. They weren't stoked.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

Barney walks in and he just ghosted.

[Bo]

Oh. If you a boat at it.

[Shane Merrill]

All right.

[Chris]

All right.

[Bo]

Was totally into it.

[Chris]

The King, man.

[Shane Merrill]

Few Corrupts open that show. And I'll never forget. He's like, this is for my new friends. He corrupts.

[Bo]

Wow. One of the best moments I have. We have seen AFI and he shouts out the fire every time.

[Shane Merrill]

That's.

[Bo]

That's.

[Chris]

That's pretty cool.

[Shane Merrill]

He had some legendary shows here for sure.

[Bo]

Yeah. One of the.

[Eli]

The first time I saw AFI on the AR Drowning tour at the Metro before they played Days of the Phoenix. Davey shouts out the fireside.

[Bo]

Yeah, because that's. That's. This is their feet.

[Chris]

This is it. Yeah.

[Bo]

It's beautiful thing.

[Shane Merrill]

This is your feet one time, right?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

I got to go one Madball played here once. And Freddy goes. Y' all try to Front like this as a club. This is a bowling alley.

[Chris]

Sounds like he's not wrong, you know.

[Bo]

Colin, it's your frame, buddy.

[Chris]

Oh, is it? Let's see.

[Bo]

Throw, throw. A real clean one. The last one. See?

[Chris]

Oh, a real clean one.

[Bo]

Real clean one. All eyes. Oh, wow. He's done that in places you wouldn't.

[Chris]

Don't do it.

[Bo]

Excellent.

[Shane Merrill]

Well done.

[Bo]

I've never done that before.

[Chris]

I've gotten a gutterball with bumpers.

[Bo]

So, Shane, do you think there's ever a possibility of a show happening here again?

[Shane Merrill]

I wouldn't count on it. I mean, I think if. If Jimmy wants to retire one day and sell the place, that's your best chance. As long as he's around. Probably not. He's just not. He's a good friend of mine. I still hang out with him. I go to. I go to football game with him once a year. Good dude, but he's not into this.

[Bo]

Gotcha. Well, is he aware of the significance?

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, he's aware, okay. Yeah, he's aware. It's just not really his thing, you know?

[Bo]

Got it. He. He.

[Shane Merrill]

The only reason he let me do that fundraiser last year is because he gets along with me. You know, he's like, you're the only person I would do this for.

[Bo]

Like, okay, thank you.

[Chris]

Venues come and go.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Chris]

You know, it's. It's the people and the community that makes hardcore what it is. It's the friendships you make in middle school and high school that you carry on with you forever. Or on a grueling tour in Europe.

[Eli]

In Europe, where you're threading. Being threatened by some prestige athletic.

[Chris]

That's right. That'll happen.

[Eli]

But hardcore, you got mills.

[Chris]

I always got mills. You kidding me? Parkour is the best thing in the world. And, you know, it's great that some people got to enjoy it in a bowling alley. I wish I could have done that. Yeah, but we can't have everything. Just like Bo can't bowl. He can do. He has plenty of skills. Bowling isn't one of them. Is it your frame? No, Shane's. Let me see if I can throw me a winger.

[Bo]

Would you watch him? Watch him.

[Chris]

Get this. Split real quick.

[Bo]

Clean this up. Ah, that'll happen.

[Shane Merrill]

But that was the worst gutterball ever.

[Bo]

Why were the bathrooms so bad back in the day? Do you remember that?

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, they were really bad.

[Bo]

They were disgusting. Yeah, yeah.

[Chris]

But every iconic bathroom, that's a rite of passage. You need to have an unpoopable bathroom.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, I think it was a Combination of the fact that it's right there, right in the middle of the sweaty floor. So like, I think a lot of that nastiness just kind of pushed into it, but makes sense. Yeah, it was nasty.

[Eli]

What would you say your fire sign was?

[Chris]

The cobalt.

[Eli]

The cobalt.

[Chris]

100%.

[Bo]

Which we've also played, which is cool.

[Chris]

I think most people think Showcase is the like is the California hardcore venue that's gone.

[Eli]

Where was the showcase?

[Chris]

Corona.

[Bo]

Corona.

[Shane Merrill]

Hours from Corona.

[Bo]

Me? Yeah. What.

[Shane Merrill]

What is that? Like Orange county or.

[Chris]

That's IE Inland Empire.

[Bo]

That's where Steven's from.

[Chris]

Past Pomona.

[Eli]

It's far.

[Chris]

That's.

[Bo]

That's.

[Chris]

But Egypt from me. Incredible venue. Iconic, timeless shows there. But mine was the Cobalt. And most shows were bad.

[Bo]

Right.

[Chris]

But I didn't know that cuz I was having the time of my life. Bad is relative.

[Eli]

You saw us there, right?

[Chris]

Oh yeah. With nachos.

[Eli]

With Nachos. That was our first time and our first west coast tour.

[Bo]

We didn't get paid.

[Chris]

That's awesome. And that tracks the crusties from my. From my high school who like, I did not. I barely knew, you know, like, we were basically different walks of life. Loved Harm's Way.

[Bo]

Really? Yeah.

[Chris]

You guys were over.

[Bo]

We're over. It's interesting the change we had because none of us were that caution kind of.

[Chris]

But in prison was.

[Eli]

Oh yeah, we liked crust, but we definitely weren't cross.

[Chris]

And then reality approaches was.

[Shane Merrill]

There's.

[Chris]

There's. There's kickback parts.

[Bo]

That was the sea change.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

And then no Gods was the real.

[Chris]

No Gods was.

[Bo]

That was when it was just me, Chris and James.

[Chris]

Dude, I will never forget. What was the first single off no.

[Bo]

Gods on no Gods.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Fantasy. Fantasy. I could not believe with the sample.

[Chris]

And then I probably discovered the killer from there. Of like, what? Like, okay, they're from Chicago. Who else is from Chicago? And then my ass was split in two and it never recovers, as you've seen.

[Bo]

Speaking of splitting two, Chris. All right. What would Zuma say?

[Chris]

Some.

[Shane Merrill]

I want to see some crazy.

[Chris]

Oh, look at that.

[Chris Mills]

Oh, come on.

[Bo]

I will say we were here recently for. For your thing. Being back here for the first time after a while is really weird.

[Shane Merrill]

It is.

[Chris]

Does it feel unnatural?

[Bo]

I mean, I think I went to four, including the one we played. I think I went to five shows here. Oh, ever, Ever.

[Chris]

But they were pivotal moments in your life.

[Bo]

Yeah, that. That a n. One that we were talking about was really something.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Bo]

You went to a couple shows here without me? I Know.

[Eli]

Yes, but I mean, I actually like played here with.

[Bo]

Oh, with Eli.

[Eli]

With Eli.

[Bo]

Chris was in kind of a metal core band.

[Chris]

What was it called?

[Eli]

It's called Eli.

[Shane Merrill]

I remember that.

[Bo]

Everlasting impression.

[Chris]

Oh, that's cool.

[Bo]

Hila. We.

[Eli]

We somehow got a show offer here.

[Chris]

Now watch this drive.

[Bo]

Won't get fooled again. Ah, you wanna, you wanna try to hit the middle, but kind of. Oh, I'm sorry, my bad.

[Chris]

That won't be necessary.

[Bo]

Did you ever come to any shows here? I didn't. Just, just, just missed it. He's 31, so he's just.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, just when you were like really young, when you started coming to shows, you're like 14, 13.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

That would have put you just a couple years away from it. Yeah.

[Chris]

Strike, strike, strike.

[Bo]

Did bands ever try to like bowl?

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, there was an occasional show where the lanes would be open. If it was like an indie rock show or something.

[Bo]

Sure.

[Shane Merrill]

They expected like 50 or so people, they'd have the lanes open.

[Chris]

Can other people get in or just.

[Bo]

All right, mother.

[Chris]

No, see, that sounds like a difficult arrangement to make with a bullion.

[Shane Merrill]

If. Well, they could get in if it was one of those shows.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, but usually if it was a show, there was just somebody at the door and you paid or you wouldn't get in.

[Bo]

How much were shows here?

[Shane Merrill]

Average show, 5 to $7 usually. If it was a. If it was a real hoity toity show, it might be 10 or 12 bucks.

[Chris]

Oh, Napalos.

[Shane Merrill]

That was probably. That was an all day thing. That was probably 15.

[Chris]

Oh yeah, big money.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

That was like Napalm Depth and Soylent Green.

[Bo]

You kidding me?

[Chris]

That's crazy.

[Bo]

You kidding me?

[Eli]

Did you say when in tune play here?

[Shane Merrill]

It was when Wolverine Blues was on After Ride.

[Chris]

Shoot Straight, Death and Roll Record.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

And that was when Satisfaction had been out for a little bit and it was like fire then. So the hate free pit at that show was scary.

[Chris]

Back to the back wall at all lanes. No lane is safe.

[Bo]

We're a community of bowlers. Merch would be back there.

[Chris]

There's not a single hint.

[Bo]

No.

[Chris]

In here of hardcore venue.

[Bo]

It is crazy that the stage is still here, here. Yeah.

[Chris]

Cuz why? That just means they're holding out for something, you know.

[Bo]

There he goes. There we go.

[Eli]

Something almost is the owner of this.

[Bo]

Place now, he's only about 55 maybe.

[Shane Merrill]

So you know, he was a young guy when this was all going on. You know, this place has been in his family. His father opened it like 50s or something like that.

[Chris]

So do you know who the first person to book a show here was?

[Bo]

Yeah. How did that start?

[Shane Merrill]

Brian Peterson. Brian Peterson was the architect of this place. He still is around as a company called MP Shows and still does shows here in Chicago. But he was the one that started it. He basically just walked in here and said, can I do shows here? I want to rent the room out and do shows. And Jim was like, I could use the money. Sure. You know.

[Chris]

Do you remember what it costs to use?

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah, it's like 150 bucks, maybe, I think.

[Bo]

Which, like, even today, if that's four or 500, is like, yeah.

[Chris]

And. And if I'm.

[Shane Merrill]

What was his name?

[Chris]

Brian.

[Shane Merrill]

Brian, yeah.

[Chris]

If I'm Brian, I'm like, deal, let's go. Give me the room. Yeah, let me. I'll do it for a year.

[Shane Merrill]

Come on. That's what it was. And I mean, there would be some days where there was like three shows. There'd be like a 2pm show, a 6pm show, and then a 10pm show, and it would be like, what, a hardcore show, a pop pump show, and then some, like, weird indie rock, like, dismemberment plan type thing, you know. It was all over the place.

[Bo]

Oh, oh. Rob the Twice again. Who would you say was the biggest act at the time that played here?

[Shane Merrill]

Like, when they actually played?

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, man.

[Shane Merrill]

I mean, from a Chicago perspective, when that slapstick last show happened, that was.

[Bo]

Was that happened here? Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

That was ridiculous.

[Chris]

My Chemical Romance played here, right?

[Shane Merrill]

They played here.

[Bo]

They did play here. They were on this. A tour that we're always talking about.

[Shane Merrill]

They were big at the time.

[Bo]

They didn't play that show. So our show was Hope con, suicide, P, Eid, and L7 was insane, too.

[Shane Merrill]

That was really insane. Like, there were so many people on the street that couldn't get in. It was. That was crazy. That had to be up there, too.

[Chris]

We must stop these terrorist killers. Now watch this drive W.

[Bo]

Oh. Oh, wait, there it is.

[Chris]

All right. If this chorus doesn't make you hit a strike. Yeah, it ain't happening.

[Bo]

You know what the crazy thing is? I really tried.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Bo]

I was really like, here we go.

[Chris]

Yeah. I'm keeping my wrist straight. I'm doing physical geometry every time thinking, like, maybe now I'll get it. This whole bowling thing, I can't believe.

[Bo]

How difficult it is.

[Chris]

It's crazy.

[Bo]

I've never been good.

[Shane Merrill]

I only seen this happen one time. But there was one time at a show where the singer of a band Jumped off the stage and ran and dove head first. Head burst into the pins. Do I make a guess as to who that was? Seth, button them for me.

[Chris]

Really?

[Shane Merrill]

He first he set a 311 shirt on fire on stage and then just dropped it and let it burn.

[Chris]

And we're like, dude, oh my God.

[Shane Merrill]

Then he jumps off the stage and just runs and dives head first into the. The owner was not happy.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Bo]

Dillinger did flame. Fire breathing in here, right?

[Shane Merrill]

Oh, Zer hurt somebody really bad during that show. They like, they. They were doing all the fire and. And then is Ben. Is that the guitar player?

[Bo]

I'm not sure.

[Shane Merrill]

He whipped his guitar around and it like the neck caught some chick in the face.

[Bo]

She was all bloody. Oh, no. Yeah.

[Chris]

Did people watch from like right here?

[Bo]

Yeah. Yes.

[Chris]

So this is a good sage potato spot.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah. People watch from there.

[Bo]

Yeah. So the total length of time the show has happened here was like 12 years.

[Shane Merrill]

11 or 12 years, I think. I want to say he did the first show in 94. So, yeah, about that. Those places are kind of before my time, but I think even the people that are a little older than you would say fireside too.

[Eli]

And was crowbar one of them too, or Crowbar.

[Bo]

Did you get that, Steven?

[Shane Merrill]

You talking about Crowbar the club or.

[Bo]

Crowbar the bad Club? It said colon.

[Shane Merrill]

Warm and nightclub.

[Eli]

Yeah.

[Shane Merrill]

Yeah. I don't think they did show maybe at one point.

[Bo]

Yes.

[Chris]

Please go to ball. Please go to ball. Yes. Yes.

[Bo]

Yay.

[Chris]

Done. This is hard. Laura at the Fireside Bowl, Chicago, Illinois. Thank you all so much.

[Bo]

Thank you guys so much for today.

[Chris]

Thank you for being here. Shane, if you don't sink this.

[Shane Merrill]

If you get this turkey.

[Chris Mills]

Oh, my God.

[Chris]

No way.

[Bo]

No way. So close.

[Chris]

That's all the time we have here today. Thank you all for watching. Thank you guys for joining us today. Chicago hardcore. It's the second home to me. It's the first home to boat. It's. We love it so much. Thank you all for having us. Thank you all for watching Chicagoland. If you're watching, keep it up forever and any last words.

[Bo]

I love it here. It's the best city on earth. Best city in the entire world. And I'm so happy to call it home. Thank you guys. Yeah, thanks for coming. Chris, get up in here. Get this final shot. You guys are the best. Thank you for taking times out of your days to meet with us. Yeah, thank you.

[Chris]

Bye.