Nick Hexum: 311, Opening for Fugazi, Bad Brains Influence & Selling 10+ Million Albums

Summary

HardLore Podcast: Nick Hexum (311)

Episode: Nick Hexum: 311, Opening for Fugazi, Bad Brains Influence & Selling 10+ Million Albums
Released: March 12, 2026
Hosted by Colin Young & Bo Lueders (Knotfest)

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Episode Overview

This episode of HardLore welcomes Nick Hexum, frontman of the multi-platinum band 311, as the hosts dive deep into his journey from Omaha roots to alternative rock stardom. The discussion traverses topics such as early punk influences, Backstage tales of opening for legends like Fugazi, studio stories, friendship and band longevity, run-ins with music industry myths, and the philosophy that 311 has carried for nearly four decades. The tone is warm, nostalgiac, and marked by genuine curiosity from the hosts, resulting in stories and insights that span cultural lore and personal growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Omaha Origins, Surf Culture, and Early Influences

• Discovery of West Coast Culture: Nick shares his early fascination with the Beach Boys, surf culture, and time spent traveling with family, sparking a lifelong love for “the beach and building sandcastles.” Hearing Bob Marley was transformative, leading him west. (02:54)
• Proud of Omaha Roots: Despite their California sound, Nick emphatically claims “we're very proud of our Omaha roots,” noting the unique, non-jaded energy of hometown crowds that powered their early days. (04:45)
• Opening for Fugazi—The First Show: 311’s first gig—after almost being called “Fish Hippos”—was opening for Fugazi in Omaha. “The place went buck wild.” (05:45, 04:45)

Punk Foundations & Eclectic Tastes

• Punk Genesis: Nick’s gateway was The Clash via a friend’s older brother (“the #1 for me”), but his palette quickly grew to incorporate LA punk, Minor Threat, Bad Brains, funk, and heavy music. “I have always just tried to be super eclectic and just follow the muse.” (06:38, 06:51)
• First Performance: School talent show as a Clash tribute, including “Police and Thieves” and a forced encore with “Should I Stay Or Should I Go.” The music teacher unplugged their amps mid-performance—a proto-punk rite of passage. (08:00)

Naming 311 & Debunking Myths

• 311's Name: Named after Omaha’s police code for indecent exposure, with an added nod to Gen X’s affinity for mysterious, numeric band names. (06:16)
• Racist Rumor: Addressed the hurtful rumor that “311” stood for “KKK” (K is the 11th letter); Nick calls it “an interesting sociological thing” that people believe salacious rumors without checking facts—so much so, their high school banned 311 shirts. (10:09; 11:07)

Building the Band & Grassroots Growth

• From Unity to 311: Initial bands called Unity and The Eds (named after their “character” drummer, Ed). Early gig success (“winning these battle of the bands”) convinced Nick the crowd connection mattered most. (11:45, 12:08)
• Crowd Energy & Advice: Encourages musicians to focus on “getting people to lose their inhibitions and move their bodies”—linking the power of live music to the primal, tribal human experience. (13:57, 13:08)
• DIY Days: “We were huge partiers at the time… didn’t realize until after [opening for Fugazi] that was a pretty big faux pas to be loudly drinking at a Fugazi show.” The band learns Fugazi’s ethos/index—$5 shows, anti-merch values, getting booked via local scene calls. (15:08-15:47)

DIY Recordings & Major Label Leap

• Early Releases: Funded their debut record “Dammit!” via student loans; self-released tapes and CDs on 'What Have You' Records. Omaha Sessions compiles rarer pre-label tracks. (16:35, 17:26, 21:53)
• Breakthrough: Sold records so prolifically in Omaha that a local store said “you’re our number one selling album,” beating U2, Madonna, Michael Jackson. Nick “fluffed” metrics to label reps—a DIY hustle. (18:33)
• Signed to Capricorn, Produced by Eddie Offord: Legendary prog producer (Yes, ELP), also worked with John Lennon—imparted audio lessons and confidence. (19:38, 20:12)

Creative Philosophy, Band Dynamics, & Longevity

• Harmonies & Roles: Nick (baritone) sought higher harmonies, leading to Essay’s addition; “just two dedicated vocalists worked out.” (25:18)
• Friendship First: The band's stability (since 1992) owes to “respecting democracy,” knowing “you have to be ready to not get your way.” (26:49, 27:24)
• Amber's Origin: Almost didn’t make the record; “Our producer was like: bro, the hook… you gotta put out Amber.” Emphasizes valuing collaboration: “you’re better together than you could be separately.” (27:56, 28:30)
• Band Tragedy: After their RV fire, the band bonded even deeper: “All we need is the songs in our head and each other.” They borrowed gear and played the next night, even with injuries. (30:18-30:54)

Studio Processes, Influences, and Sound Evolution

• Producer Insights: Ron St. Germain (Bad Brains, Tool, Living Colour) brought “super high energy,” encouraged capturing live energy on tape, and opposed the era’s jadedness. (31:46, 32:37)
• Heavy Riffs: Nick credits Helmet, Bad Brains “Quickness,” and Chad’s metal background (Kiss, Iron Maiden) for their hard side; incorporated single-note and harmonized riffs. (37:10, 37:35)
• Transistor—Left Turn: Cites conscious risk-taking and backlash for not repeating Blue Album’s formula; incorporated dub, dancehall, and trip-hop into a sprawling 21-track record. “We want to make sure that we’re challenging ourselves and our fans.” (49:22, 50:58)

Chart Success & Scene Impact

• First MTV Break: “Down” video became a ‘buzz clip’—MTV played it hourly, transforming the band’s touring life (“everything took off super fast at that time”). (39:51, 40:01)
• Warped Tour, Cross-Scene Ties: Played with punk/hardcore bands (H2O, Pennywise, NOFX, Blink), and fused those influences. Nick shouts out his love for NOFX’s harmonies and the community’s inclusive spirit. (44:48-45:17)

Homages, Sampling & Music Lore

• I'll Be Here Awhile: Direct homage to Bad Brains’ "I & I Survive": “I wanted to do an ad-lib and nobody’s better at ad-libbing than HR.” Pushes back at critics by calling it “an homage…if you’re a punk rocker, you knew where that came from.” (73:40-74:16, 74:57)
• Referencing Other Artists: Defends intertextuality: “We’re standing on the shoulders of giants… it’s a quote, like I’m giving props…” (77:17)
• Creative Sampling: Used dancehall sample CDs and vintage samplers for sounds like the “boing” on "Come Original"; also used samples on “Beautiful Disaster.” (66:09, 67:06)

Adapting to the Industry & DIY Spirit

• Coping with Criticism: Nick tunes out negative press, focusing on fans and the example of bands like Led Zeppelin (“they said Led Zeppelin sucked too… we’re just keep making music for the fans”). Anticipated the collapse of the CD business by focusing on touring. (67:40-69:18)
• Founding the Hive Studio: Built their own recording hub in LA after renting phases—saving on huge studio costs and securing their creative autonomy. Outfitted with a rare Amec 9098i mixing board once owned by R. Kelly—now saged and blessed! (69:31-73:09)
• Transition to Independent Label (SKP/Escapee): The band's own platform for self-releasing music, reflecting industry changes and direct artist control. (108:32)

2000s-Present: Later Records, Innovation & Workflow

• Sound System, Bob Rock, and Evolution: Incorporated lessons from producers like Bob Rock (“sixth band member,” “helped us with our interpersonal kind of thing”), with all members pursuing advanced studio techniques and chordal explorations. (99:33, 101:21)
• Track-by-Track Process: Example—“Come Original” drew on a trip to Jamaica and immersion in dancehall culture; “Amber” stemmed partly from a bandmate’s earlier riff. (62:14, 79:26)
• Live Streaming During COVID-19: “Live from the Hive” and album-stream events kept them connected during the pandemic. (105:45-106:51)
• Songwriting Philosophy: Songwriting remains focused on “the fun of making music” over chasing trends or past hits. “A writer writes,” referencing Rick Rubin’s advice on courage and persistence. (92:05)

Band Life, Health, and Modern Practice

• Fitness & Diet: Nick discusses the importance of movement (“people moving their bodies in rhythm… releases oxytocin”), daily workouts, and a broad, balanced diet—formerly keto and vegan, now “a little bit of everything.” (111:48, 114:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Artistic Homage:
  “If you’re a punk rocker, you knew where that came from. It’s an homage.” — Nick Hexum on referencing Bad Brains in “I’ll Be Here Awhile” (74:57)
• On Band Longevity:
  “You have to be ready to not get your way, to be flexible, to respect democracy... friendship first and then the fun of making music, and then it turns into a business. But friendship supersedes.” (27:24-29:51)
• On Negative Press:
  “We had examples, like, they said Led Zeppelin sucked too. So, like, they don’t know shit. We're just keep making music straight for the fans.” (68:12)
• On Creative Philosophy:
  “We're standing on the shoulders of giants.” (77:19)
• On Adapting to Change:
  “The best thing an artist can do is just follow their curiosity.” (110:16)
• RV Fire Aftermath:
  “All we need is the songs in our head and each other, and none of this stuff really matters.” (30:18)
• On Live Shows:
  “The most important thing is to do a great live show. The CDs and everything came secondary, which was fortunate for us.” (68:12)
• On “Amber”:
  “Well, I kind of like it, but it was very out of step with everything we had done up to that point. It’s much softer and mellower.” (27:56)
• On Sampling:
  “We kind of put [the boing sample] low in the mix because we wanted the real instruments to be first.” (66:46)

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Important Timestamps

• 311’s Omaha roots & Beach Boys influence: 02:54
• First gig opening for Fugazi / band name origin: 04:45–06:16
• Band myth: what 311 means: 10:01–11:07
• Punk genesis/Clash inspiration: 06:38–08:27
• Starting from DIY roots: 16:35–18:33
• Working with Ron St. Germain: 31:46–32:37
• RV burns up/band resilience: 30:18–30:54
• Transistor backlash and creative risk: 49:22–50:58
• Breakthrough era & “Down” video: 39:51–40:01
• Homage to Bad Brains in “I’ll Be Here Awhile”: 74:13–74:57
• On music journalism and criticism: 67:17–69:18
• Adapting through COVID-19: 105:45–106:51
• SKP label & industry modernity: 108:32
• Ending: Nick’s four fave punk/hardcore albums: 118:08–120:11

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Nick Hexum’s Top 4 Punk/Hardcore Records

1. Fugazi – 13 Songs (“Waiting Room”)
2. The Clash – London Calling
3. Bad Brains – Quickness or I Against I (“Quickness actually has better production…” – 119:11)
4. Descendents – Milo Goes to College (“Just good songwriting, but it’s super punk.” – 119:31)

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Final Reflections

This episode is a compelling oral history of 311 from the man who lived it, brimming with tales of music scenes, perseverance, experimentation, and a “follow your curiosity” ethos. Nick Hexum’s openness, thoughtful asides, and the hosts’ deep-dive questions make this not only a chronicle of a band’s journey, but a guide for artists navigating their own paths—whether on major labels, indie studios, or streaming platforms.

“We love our fans. We’re so grateful to get to do this for yet another year, as we're about to turn 36. Many people don’t get to be 36, let alone many bands.” — Nick Hexum (120:40)

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Transcript

[Bo]

I'll be here a while. You just sing a Bad Brains part.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

At the end of the song.

[Nick Hexum]

And this is from I and I Survive. I wanted to do an ad lib, and nobody's better at ad living than hr.

[Bo]

This is the connection that people might wonder.

[Nick Hexum]

I remember a guy on a message board saying, I hate that song. I'll be here while. Because he rips off Bad Brains. I was like, no, I was giving it props. Like, if you're a punk rocker, you knew where that came from. That's like your. It's an homage.

[Host]

Hello. Welcome. It's hard Lore time. How you doing, Bo?

[Bo]

I'm doing really good.

[Host]

Where are we? Deep in the valley, as we should be. As I always like to be. We're here for a very special reason, a very special occasion on a very special day. Well said as it is, March 11th or March 12th or wherever you're. Whenever you're watching this. We've got an unbelievable guest on this show today, everyone. We've got the highest grossing artist we've ever had on this show. It's a. A fact. Alternative rock pioneer, genuine household name. Founder and vocalist of one of the first bands that either of us were probably ever coherently aware of at all.

[Bo]

Yep.

[Host]

Founder and. Did I say founder of.

[Bo]

That's okay.

[Host]

Nick hexum of 311.

[Nick Hexum]

Hey. Happy 311 day.

[Bo]

Yeah. All right.

[Host]

Thank you. Thank you for spending it with us.

[Bo]

Yeah, we. We really appreciate it.

[Host]

What an honor.

[Nick Hexum]

Super cool.

[Bo]

How are you doing? Great. It's beautiful.

[Nick Hexum]

But we're not in the valley. We're in the Santa Monica. Santa Monica Mountains preserve. Just disappointing.

[Host]

I didn't want to dox you.

[Nick Hexum]

I'm always talking about Topanga.

[Host]

Okay. Topanga, to me, is an extension of the Valley. You know, what's the area?

[Nick Hexum]

It does go. The road goes through the valley, and they call it Topanga Mall, which is like, nowhere near actual Topanga, but whatever.

[Host]

And maybe it was named after the gal from Boy Meets World. Let's address the elephant on the beach here. That is what a shocking revelation it is. Every time somebody. Like I'm sure you experience all the time. Every time somebody finds out that 311 is from Omaha, it's probably like a. What do you mean? Type thing. And you've been getting it your whole life.

[Bo]

Would have said Long Beach.

[Host]

Let's.

[Bo]

Let's. No problem.

[Host]

Let's walk us back to young Nick in Omaha discovering music. How did that sound, that attitude, that style make its way to you?

[Nick Hexum]

Well, I liked the Beach Boys, this the, you know, the west coast surf culture type of thing. It fascinated me. And I was very lucky that me and my sister got to take a lot of trips with my grandparents all around the Caribbean, Hawaii. So I just love being at the beach and building sandcastles and it just kind of was. Drew me out there. And then hearing Bob Marley just elevated me to a different place in more ways than one elevation. And so we all came out here. You know, I came out here first in 88 when I was 17. And then after floundering around the Sunset Strip for a little bit, we're trying to find some guys to make a band with. I realized that my homies from Omaha were my best collaborators and Omahomies, if you will. Yeah. Went back to Omaha in 1990 and started 311. Then we all came out together in 92. But I have to say we're very proud of our Omaha roots.

[Bo]

We have both toured, We've played Omaha a lot, especially being from Chicago. That's some. That's kind of the first stop going west after maybe Quad Cities. And we have heard stories of like, oh yeah, when like 311 are around or if 311 crew. Crew, yeah, they come to the bar, it's like ah, like you know, lords of the city kind of thing. So I've. Once I discovered it, I never forgot it, but it was still shocking nonetheless when I did realize that you guys were true Midwestern familiar.

[Host]

Yeah, big time.

[Nick Hexum]

And Omaha was a great, like a lot of touring bands tell us like Omaha crowds, man, they, they just give you so much like they're not, they're not jaded. And we've had that where it's a little harder to get LA crowds whipped into a frenzy because they like see so many shows all the time and blah, blah, blah. But in, in Omaha they give you that energy. So we had that launching pad from the start. Like our first gig was opening for Fugazi, of all people. And just the place went buck wild.

[Bo]

He printed that out.

[Host]

Let's talk about it. Check it out. Walk me through it.

[Nick Hexum]

Okay. See where it says Fish Hippos. That was. So what happened was we were called Unity. Me and Tim and Chad had a band and then we got back to Omaha at different times. Like, Chad had been jamming with Peanut and they came up with the name Fish Hippos. And then he, I, you don't have

[Host]

to hold the fire.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, I called him and just to say what's up? And he was like, dude, we got a Gig opening for Fugazi. And I was like, that sounds awesome. He was like, why don't you come back and sing? And I said, okay, but can we change the name from Fish Hippos? And so then we, we talked about it and Peanut was like, well, I did a talent show under the name 311. And I was like, I love it. Just a number. And then he said, well, it's also the police code for indecent exposure.

[Bo]

Read that.

[Nick Hexum]

I was like, I still love it. Let's do that. But I really liked is kind of like that Gen X mystery of just like having a number and totally.

[Host]

Were you a Fugazi guy or a Minor Threat guy?

[Nick Hexum]

Oh, yeah.

[Bo]

Okay, we'll get there.

[Host]

Take me there. Let's take me there.

[Bo]

You want to go?

[Host]

Let's go back to Tell me that your roots in punk music, how'd you find it?

[Nick Hexum]

My buddy Joe Brady's older brother Mark had a great punk collection. And so this was. I heard the Clash from him and it just blew my mind.

[Host]

Those are your guys, right?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, that is like my, my number one and. But also like the, the OG punk from, you know, from England, but then also the next generation of LA punk and like you said, minor Threat and bad brains and. But I love heavy music too. Pass me. I. I have always just tried to be super eclectic and just follow the muse as we were talking about before, wherever it leads. But yeah, definitely punk was huge for me when I heard it was the Clash's first album, the self titled one that was a green album in America and a black album in England. And. And the first performance I ever did was a school talent show. And when we were called A tribute to the Clash and we did, we were slated to do two Clash songs, Police and Thieves, which was actually a cover. And then a song called Protex Blue, which I found out later was about condoms. And then we basically kind of had a mutiny that we had our friends start chanting encore, encore. And then we ripped into Should I Stay or Should I Go? Oh yeah. And gotta give the people what they want, you know. And then the music teacher ran out and unplugged our amps so all you could hear was the drums.

[Host]

But that's best case scenario for Proto Punk guys, you know, you did it. You started the revolution.

[Nick Hexum]

That's right.

[Host]

Amazing. So aside from the Clash and early punk, I had also read that some big first steps for you were Margaritaville, first song on guitar and Rapper's Delight. And I think when you combine those three ideas it's like, there. There's 3:11. Wow.

[Bo]

Yeah, no kidding.

[Host]

Kind of crazy.

[Nick Hexum]

Oh, and the entertainer, of course, obviously. Little ragtime piano. You gotta know my piano here, though, I. I don't play much piano. My. My oldest daughter, Echo, is incredible at piano, but, yeah, I just like to be all over the place. But after the Clash, then maybe the Chili Peppers, Jane's Addiction, Fishbone, which, you know, those were happening in la, so that was, like, a big draw to come out and, like, go to Club Scream and see Jane's Addiction and meet the Chili Peppers at their show in the Palace. And it was. It was very exciting time, like, to have, like, funk combined with punk rock energy.

[Host]

Grew up punk listening to funk.

[Nick Hexum]

There you go.

[Host]

I gotcha. I'm with you. He knows his I'm with you.

[Bo]

So the name was changed. Indecent Exposure was the police code in Omaha for it. Were you aware of the rumor of what 311 stood for?

[Nick Hexum]

Of course you were. No, please tell me.

[Bo]

Oh, really? Of course. Of course you were. For the.

[Nick Hexum]

Anyone watching?

[Host]

Which one?

[Bo]

Yeah, right. The k is the 11th letter in the Alphabet. And the thought was like, oh, they're like. But it's the same thing.

[Nick Hexum]

Three K's.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

We have nothing. We were the opposite of the K.4K, but. And there was my friend's band called the 88. They ran into the same thing because HH.

[Bo]

Of course.

[Nick Hexum]

And, yeah, it was. It's hard to believe when such a ridiculous rumor comes up, but there's something about something so salacious and controversial that makes people believe it the first time they hear it. So it's actually an interesting sociological thing. It really is that people wouldn't. That some people would believe it before really even looking into it. And that the craziest part is that our high school, Me and Tim and Chad went to west side High in Omaha, and they actually banned 311 shirts because they believed it.

[Host]

Oh, my God.

[Bo]

Oh, my God.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And. And my brother was at that high school at the time, and he was like, I'm not taking my shirt off, because this is bullshit.

[Bo]

Yeah. And.

[Nick Hexum]

And then the. The story actually made it into Rolling Stone. And that was our, like, our first kind of mention of getting really, like, into the. The conversation in that context.

[Host]

Awesome.

[Bo]

Yeah. Great. Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

Right. But I guess, you know, they say all press is good press, but. Yeah.

[Host]

So let's go back a little bit. So tell me about the ED's, because that was how some of you first met each other, right?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. So me and. And Tim had a band called, called the Eds because our drummer was named Ed and he was just a real character. And so we called ourselves the Eds.

[Bo]

Just one of them though.

[Nick Hexum]

And we were playing the. The alternative of the time was. Was college rock. It was like REM and the Smiths and the Cure and kind of this like jangle rock. But we, we did it with a little bit more energy, a little bit more, some punk in there. And then we started doing originals and we were like winning these battle of the bands and you know, we. So from the success of that in high school, I was like, this is doable, you know, if you're able to get a crowd going, that is, that's the most important thing. And I've. I've often said it in a very dated way that like some of the best. I've said this forever. Some of the best musicians in the world are playing at a bar at the Holiday Inn, you know what I mean? And it's now they don't, they don't have music at Holiday Inns anymore. But when I started out they probably did. So that's where that expression has been around.

[Host]

I mean that's the best chess players are on the street on Hollywood and Highland ever, you know. Yeah, can't beat those guys.

[Nick Hexum]

So. But the differentiation of being able to work a crowd into really losing their inhibitions. It's like whether it's a metal show or a punk show or a hip hop show, people moving their bodies together is a. Is a continuation of the tribal dance that has been integral to the human experience for about 50,000 years. You know what I mean? Like they say drums have gone back maybe a hundred thousand years and melodic instruments started coming in about 50 and singing. So it's just, it's like a very important thing. When I talk to people, people who ask me for advice, I'm like, show your instruments some love every day, but take every gig and work on getting people to lose their inhibitions and move their bodies.

[Bo]

We say this all the time. Coming from a more punk and hardcore world, we get asked all the time, how do we tour, how do we start this? And it's just, you gotta show up, you just gotta go start your thing,

[Host]

play it another way and open and

[Nick Hexum]

lead by example to lose your inhibitions. Because nobody. Like, if you're just standing there, like that was always the thing. We would just. We probably were pretty sloppy in the early days, but we would just go

[Host]

off and going off playing isn't performing, you know, right eventually you're performing.

[Bo]

No one, no one wants to go to a show and see the record, exactly how it's performed, how it's recorded. They want to see something. How was Fugazi at that show?

[Nick Hexum]

Super nice. I mean like they're so diy. First of all, you were not. They never charged more than five dollars for a show. The five dollar tickets. What. That was literally the price. It's probably on the flyers. They didn't have merch because they didn't believe in it for some reason. So then people started making it. This is not a Fugazi T shirt. Trade shirt.

[Bo]

Yeah, good.

[Host]

Which there are beliefs that they made those, but we'll have to confirm or deny with Mr. Ian at some point.

[Nick Hexum]

But the thing was they were super nice because they just called ahead like a local punker in Omaha and said, can you get some local bands to open for us? And Peanut somehow got wind of it and got us that gig. So it was super diy. We were huge partiers at the time. So we were sitting there drinking 40 ouncers and I didn't realize until after that that was a pretty big faux pas to be like loudly drinking at a Fugazi show. Because they're straight edge. But they didn't say anything.

[Host]

Who knows? I don't know that they were still straight edge by that time, you know.

[Bo]

I understand though.

[Host]

Yeah. That's kind of you to even think

[Bo]

that, you know, being coming from two straight edge guys ourselves. We understand. But I don't think, I don't think any of them would have really cared. So I think you were fine.

[Nick Hexum]

They were super gracious and complimentary and it was awesome. And now I would be right at home with that situation. But it was, you know, we were, we were pretty hard partiers back then. That's awesome.

[Bo]

Was it a lot, A lot of people?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

It always blows my mind how that band operated that way and was able to draw.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Host]

So you go to LA by yourself, you're seeing Jane's Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers, you go home, reunite with the boys, 311 is formally born. What's next? The, the Dammit record is that. That's first.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. So I, I took a, A, a student loan to fund our first record, which was probably illegal.

[Host]

FAFSA records.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And we, we made a cassette out of that and started selling at the shows. And then our second record and I called the label. I was basically like the one employee of the label. It was called what have you Records which is part of that what have you means like, whatever. It's just that Gen X kind of humor. Then we made a CD, which was like a huge deal in 1991 to actually get a CD, because there was no CD burners or anything. So it was like, we've got a cd and that was called Unity.

[Host]

And you still play some of these songs.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, a lot of those songs kind of got revamped to make it onto our major label debut, which was music. And then we made another tape, which was more of an EP called Hydroponic. And then, like, we just. We played these new music Mondays at the Ranch bowl, which was all ages shows, and we sold it out. I mean, it would be just crazy. Moshing stage, diving clothes off, like just a wild, wild scene. And. And then we were selling lots of tapes and CDs to the extent that Homer's Records was the. Like, the main cool record store downtown. And the guy told us, like, you're our number one selling album right now. I was like, do you mean like, local? He's like, no, it's ahead of you two and Madonna and Michael Jackson, which were, you know, big in 91. And so I was able to take that and send it to some labels. And I did a lot of bullshitting, a lot of like, you know, you

[Bo]

fluff the numbers a little bit.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. Or be like. I'd read a name in Rolling Stone, like, this guy loved it. Yeah. So. And so from Capitol Record, I'm in talks with Doug Morris at Capitol. Like, just complete bullshit, but you know what I mean, it was kind of Machiavellian. Like, I just kind of felt like I knew we had something good to offer and so started getting some. A tiny bit of label interest. But then we're like, we got. We got to go out to la and. And I don't know if it was necessary. The truth is, is that we flew. They. Once we got a label interested, they wanted to see us live. And I like, well, you need to see us in front of the Omaha crowd. Because we hadn't had a big, you know, following and no following in LA at that time. So we flew back to do like, a showcase. And they were like, this is the real deal. And so we got signed to Capricorn Records. Part of that was Eddie offered, the legendary Prague rock producer who had done, like, Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Yes and yes. And he had worked with John Lennon. And so he was just like this classic English studio guy. Kind of a gentleman, kind of a wild man. Part like Ozzy Osbourne and part like this mad scientist. And so he kind of took us under his wing. And part of the. The deal was like, well, if Eddie produces your. Your album, then, like, all systems go. Let's. Let's go. And so we.

[Host]

Did he have much influence on, like, the time signatures and more progressive things you were doing?

[Nick Hexum]

I mean, I think he helped. I know. Remember that. He helped me see where I was rushing because a lot of, like, punk rock energy is pushing the beat. And he was like, you're ahead, you're ahead, you're ahead. Like, slow down and, like, listen to the drummer. And so there was some things about performance, but a lot of it was he was just a. A very, like, a big engineer. Like, he would brought in all this gear with effects and. And he actually really taught Chad especially. Especially about miking and eqing and compression and. And so we just like. It was like a crash course. Perfect. And. Yeah. And then. Then music came out and we went on the road, and then our RV burned up.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

Feel free to ask me to elaborate on it.

[Host]

Yeah, but. But the whole band. You said the whole band moved to la. The whole band specifically moved to Van Nuys, right?

[Nick Hexum]

Yes.

[Host]

What? Do you remember the Cross Streets?

[Nick Hexum]

It was Bessemer. It was basically Sunny Slope in Bessemer. It was, like, near Woodman and kind of near the college there.

[Host]

Valley College.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah, I voted there. Wow. Okay, so the whole band's in Van Nuys.

[Nick Hexum]

Yes.

[Host]

Respect music. Let's talk about music. Do you consider, Damn it. And Unity like, super canon to the 311 discography? They're not on streaming really, Right.

[Nick Hexum]

No. So what we did is it's not on streaming, but we did make a CD called Omaha Sessions, which was kind of like the best of the. Those first three independent albums.

[Bo]

I see.

[Nick Hexum]

So. But kind of need to be put on Streaming.

[Bo]

Can't hurt.

[Host]

Hey, 311 is just around the corner.

[Bo]

Pardon me. Oh, beautiful.

[Nick Hexum]

It's the Elevation.

[Bo]

So music is probably most people's first exposure, I would say, to 3:11.

[Host]

Right.

[Nick Hexum]

Well, the thing is, is that. Because we did the weird thing of naming our third album 311, people assumed. And that was the record that really blew up with. With Down. So only a lot of people's like, your. Your first album is amazing. I'm like, do you mean. They're like, you know, the blue one, 3:11. No, that's actually our third album. You mean go. But we were building up a pretty good grassroots following, and that was the. That's why we named the second album that because it was like, that was all about our philosophy. Like, we knew that what we were doing with the rap, rock and the reggae, and there was no radio format that was. Would even consider that at the time.

[Host]

But do youo Right did get some MTV airplay for the first time.

[Nick Hexum]

Like, on the show. 120 minutes. Like, it. It played like twice.

[Host]

Okay. It wasn't like a.

[Nick Hexum]

And it got some airplay on. On K Rock. And I remember we were sitting by the. The little pool in our little house in. In Van Nuys. And it came on. On kroc. And they were like, believe it or not, this band is from Nebraska. We need to move to Nebraska. This is how music. So it was. It was like this really cool.

[Host]

That's awesome.

[Bo]

Interesting. The big radio station in Chicago for alternative stuff was Q101, which was a Kroc, you know, satellite station or whatever. 311 was inescapable in my memory of my childhood. I was born in 87, so especially by mid-90s, that was inescapable. Especially. Especially these first three. First three records from Music Onward.

[Host]

As of 1992, when SA joined the band. Spooky Apparition.

[Bo]

Right?

[Nick Hexum]

He's had a few. At one point, he was like, I'm Scribe. Annihilator.

[Bo]

Whoa.

[Nick Hexum]

Is that your favorite apparition? But the. The truth was, is that when I had moved out here and I worked and I was a waiter, and in the kitchens, they were all the. The cooks were all saying, what's up, SA? And so. And being that he's Hispanic, I was like, what's up, Sa? And wow. Just stuck.

[Host]

Wow.

[Bo]

Fascinating.

[Host]

That's some hard lore.

[Bo]

Yeah. When did you guys. You two specifically.

[Nick Hexum]

And SA just means man.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Bo]

When did you two figure. A lot of bands. Alice in Chains, who's another harmony type band.

[Host]

Kenny and Kenny and Pete, Kenny and

[Bo]

Peter from Typo, have a specific type of harmony, like a specific relative. I don't know what it is on the piano. When did you guys figure out that you could have. That you had this harmony that became so, like, a signature style?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, I mean, I. I have more of a baritone range. I like. I always like to sing along with, like, Jim Morrison or Sinatra, you know, like, lower vocals. And so I knew I, like, I needed somebody to sing a little higher. And. And then Essay had just first, like. I think he was doing guest spots with us from our very first gig. Like, we. Right about now, we'd like to bring out Essay to come out.

[Host]

Oh, he was already. SA yeah.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And and then as time went on, we have had him start singing. Singing harmonies. And it just kind of evolved that, you know, like I said, Beach Boys. I've always loved harmonies. The Beatles, like, so it's just like the third above. Yeah. That just. But sometimes we'll, like, cross, like. And do you. Right there's like. We'll actually cross. Like, I'll go a little higher and you go lower just to create that interesting thing of that. You're used to it staying in parallel, but then when it crosses, it. Sounds cool.

[Bo]

So early on, you knew you had that in the repertoire.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, it's great. Tim and Chad are both good, good singers too, but they're too focused on their playing. So just two dedicated vocalists just worked out.

[Host]

You've been the same unit of people since 1992, which. That doesn't happen.

[Bo]

Damn near impossible.

[Host]

What is the dynamic, like, within 3:11 today?

[Bo]

What's the secret?

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. Please get off me. Don't touch me.

[Nick Hexum]

A lot of touching. No, I think that you have to be ready to not get your way to be flexible to respect democracy. You know, you might have to be go down to Rock, paper, scissors, but most of the time, it never even comes to a vote. That's a kind of a bit of a. A failure of discussion when you can't just talk it out.

[Bo]

I agree.

[Nick Hexum]

And I think for me, it's about not putting unnecessary skin in the game. If it's, like, not something I'm passionate about, just like, yeah, whatever you guys want to do is cool. And there's certain things that are important to me that, like if it's a song that is a little weird, but I really love it, then the guys will. Okay, obviously Nick really wants to do this.

[Host]

And is there one that comes to mind that you were like, please, guys, just trust me. I'm going to fight for this. And then ended up being a banger.

[Nick Hexum]

Well, I mean, I really like when. When I wrote Amber, it was just like, oh, yeah, I got this song too, but I don't know if it's right for us. And. And then our producer, Ron St. Germain was like, bro, the hook. He usually. The hook. The hook you got to put out Amber. And I was like, well, I kind of like it, but it was very out of step with everything we had done up to that point. It's much like softer and mellower. So when there was a song on Mosaic called Places that the Mind Goes that I was like, I really love this song. Can we please do it? And everyone was Cool. But I think that I like the Morrissey lyric. Fame, fame, fatal fame. It can play hideous tricks on the brain. But then he goes on to say, but still, I'd rather be famous than righteous or holy any day. But it just. The tricks on the brain. The tricks on the brain, like it. It can mess. A lot of artists will think that maybe that they're the reason you have to value your collaborators and really know that you're better together than you could be separately. And I mean, I just honestly believe that we stumbled onto something really special and that it was. It wasn't like a studio creation of any, like, producer. Like, here you and this guy get together. It was just very natural. Through friendship. Or it's just like friendship first and then the fun of making music, and then it turns into a business. But the friendship supersedes. Needs to be at the core of it.

[Bo]

And of course, where we are in this timeline, too. Just the fun and thrill of success and like, hey, this is working like we're doing it.

[Nick Hexum]

I'm sure.

[Bo]

And then also all the hard times that are going to come with that too. Be what it is. Like your RV burning up before this all happened. Those are bonding moments that kind of cauterize everything and. And will make those relationships. Because it's like, hey, man, at least our RV isn't burning. Yeah, you know, you can always kind of fall back to that memory, so.

[Nick Hexum]

No, it's true. Like, after all our stuff burned up, I remember seeing the guys. All we need is the songs in our head and each other, and none of this stuff really matters. And we borrowed equipment and played a gig the very next night.

[Bo]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Nick Hexum]

Even though my hair was burned up, like, I literally jumped flames to. To escape with my life. Like, it was this sheet of flames. And I was like, there was only one door. So I jumped through it. And then I put my hand in my head. It was just ash and it just all broke. Fell all over the place.

[Host]

So the hair's looking great. Yeah. Hey, I made it. Fire be damned.

[Nick Hexum]

I had burns on my arm. Oh, my God. And then we were standing there in the burning hot Missouri sun in July with burns on us. But yeah, we just. We just kept. We borrowed equipment and just kept going.

[Host]

So there was no, like, the RV's. The band's done.

[Nick Hexum]

Not even for a second. I love it.

[Bo]

I love that.

[Host]

Love it.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Host]

So here we go. 311 self titled breakthrough phenomenon. Over 3 million copies. Soldiers. Produced by a man named Ron Sarah Gemarane, as you brought up earlier, who was at some point the front of house guy at CBGB's and also the producer of Bad Brains, Eye against Eye and quickness.

[Nick Hexum]

Yep. Two very, very important albums. And he worked with Tool and Fishbone and Living Color. So it was this really important music to me. And. And he had been the house guy at Electric Ladyland. So he had a lot of stories, crazy stories about like, he was in the Broadway production of Hair, which he said was just like a. Basically like a big long orgy because it was all this like free love, like, you know, hippie vibes on stage and backstage. So he had a lot of really interesting stories and super high energy. Guy, like, always wore leather pants and was like jumping off the. Jumping around the control room of like, with excitement, so.

[Host]

Which is very affirming as the. The people making the music.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, yeah. And that's like. I think around that album is when I started dropping mention of being excitable because I didn't. I didn't like being. I didn't like the jadedness of, like, people like their. They're too cool. Like, I'm like, if you're. It's being honest and saying what you. What you like is very important. Because there was a bit of a thing in the 90s of people saying, like, everything sucks. And like, I'm like, that's. That's a you problem. You know what I mean? So Seattle mentioned you problem.

[Host]

Seattle.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And it was actually a very prosperous time. Like, there's no more Soviet Union and we're not going to get bombed. You know what I mean? Because I grew up in Omaha of them saying, like, well, because we're here by SAC Air Force base, if there's a nuclear war, don't worry, we'll be completely obliterated, so we won't have to deal. And I'm like, don't worry. But so the 90s, there was no, you know, it was a peaceful and prosperous time. So we were trying to be a bit of a antidote to sort of some of the downerism that was going on. But I believe in being fully saying every part of your experience. And if you're in pain, it's definitely good to put that in your music. But it also became something that people would kind of hide behind in a

[Bo]

way and just kind of feedback.

[Nick Hexum]

Feedback. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah, sure. I gotcha.

[Bo]

I was. I was at Tower Records with my mom. Yeah, no, I was having a great time.

[Host]

Great day.

[Bo]

You reached me.

[Host]

Yeah, you got this was Were I against eye and quickness? Like, are those things you. You go, oh, he did these. Let's. Let's go with this guy.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. I was like, these are the best produced albums that I've heard, like, at the time. So can we please get him? And when he was like, excited to work with us, we're like, it was a match made in heaven. We had really, by that time, put in our 10,000 hours of gig after gig after gig. Like we on Grassroots. We moved out of our little Van Nuys house and lived on the road. We didn't have a home. We put. Had a little storage unit with our meager possessions. But mostly, you know, we just lived on the road and lived on the bus and would go out for. For months at a time. So that's when we really honed our chops. And then when we went to go make the.

[Host]

So you were very ready for.

[Nick Hexum]

We were so ready.

[Host]

And right. In terms of writing, it was that. How. How involved was Ron. How much was written before the session actually began.

[Nick Hexum]

So we've worked with some producers that are. Will really get it. Like with. With Bob Rock, he'll. He'll get a guitar and be like, okay, now what's this chord? All right, how about. How about try a different chord and. And maybe on the bridge, you. You do this lift here where you do go to the major two. Like Rolling Stones like to. You want to try that? And that's a different type of producer that we hadn't been used to before. Bob Rock was a very cool learning experience. The previous producers we had were a little more focused on engineering and just okay, but. But Ron was. He was like, here's how you're going to capture the energy. Get in a room and do it like you do at a gig. So the Blue Album was played live in the studio. Everybody played at the same time. And then we went back and overdubbed vocals and guitar solos. And we were also just starting to get really into the studio trickery with scratches and samples and you guys.

[Bo]

808.

[Host]

You got toys.

[Bo]

You got toys in there.

[Host]

There's a couple toys I'm excited to bring up later that I want to know about.

[Bo]

Was this digital or tape?

[Nick Hexum]

Tape.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

We stayed. We. We stayed on tape longer than most. It was with Bob Rock on the uplifter album in 07 or something that we. He was like, you can get a good analog sound onto Pro Tools. And before that, we'd stayed on tape kind of longer than most bands.

[Host]

So we. We're of the belief that everything musically comes from somewhere. And I've always been so curious about, like, the heavy elements of 3:11. I saw you mention Helmet as an influence.

[Bo]

Oh, I can see that.

[Host]

Are there any other kind of, like, the stuff like, where is that coming from?

[Nick Hexum]

Yes, Helmet was. And also the riffs in, you know, the opening to Quickness. It's so badass. So that was something like the single note riffs that was. It was just really happening at the time. And. And other, like, kind of lesser known artists, like 247 Spies was doing it. And, you know, the Living Color, the Cult of Personalities riff, like riffers. Yeah, the single note riffs were very happening in the early 90s. And. And then we. We kind of did our own spin on it. And then on our first album, the song Hydroponic was like, let's. It was. It was Chad's writing that it was like, taking heaviness. Like, his background was more on the metal side with, like, Kiss. Kiss changed his life when he was a little kid. And so, like, those big, open, spacious riffs like that. And. And then, you know, we had some Grateful Dead influence from. From Tim and Peanut liked, like, you know, Iron Maiden and more of, like that traditional metal. And so it was the big harmonized

[Bo]

leads and one of the bass players, one of the best bass players in the middle ever. Steve Harris.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bo]

Unreal.

[Nick Hexum]

We used to check in under assumed names. You can't do that anymore. And I think. I think Peanut used Steve Harris.

[Bo]

That's awesome.

[Host]

That's awesome.

[Bo]

That's great.

[Host]

So is this a kind of thing where you finish tracking this record, you listen to the master back for the first time, and you. You know what you've got?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. I felt like down was super exciting. Although the label at the time was pushing us more towards a song that had singing throughout, like, Don't Stay Home all mixed up, which did pretty well.

[Bo]

Which did pretty well. But Down.

[Nick Hexum]

So it went. It went Don't Stay Home first, which did a. Okay. Got on MTV a little bit.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

And then All Mixed up, did a little better. And then down, which was crazy.

[Bo]

Which was number one.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, yeah. And it was a buzz clip, which was a big deal on mtv. Buzz clip means this is the song that everyone's buzzing about, so. And they played it once an hour. Wow. So it was. Everything took off super fast at that time. And I remember people saying, like, now that you guys got this buzz clip, there's all these kids at your show. And I'm like, good. Yeah, there's there's something special about when you're that age, what a band can mean to you. You're not just the plasticity of your brain and so forth. You're. You'll never be affected like you are that you're into in your teen years.

[Bo]

There's something inherently punk rock about that attitude, too, because that.

[Nick Hexum]

It's not elitist.

[Bo]

No. And it's. It's a young person's thing.

[Host]

And I was that kid.

[Bo]

And we were all.

[Host]

Yeah, I will never forget the down video. And I will never Forget the first 150 Pokemon. And that's a fact.

[Nick Hexum]

That's true.

[Host]

So the down is the down video entering the stratosphere, kind of the I made it, we made it moment.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. There was a few I made it moments was going on David Letterman, like. Because I used to stay up, like, David Letterman used to be on really late after Johnny Carson and I. So I'd stay up late night. He was just, like, so sarcastic and snarky and stuff. He got softer as he went along. But. So I was a huge David Letterman fan. So.

[Bo]

Be on card. Yeah, you throw one if you want. Like, David.

[Nick Hexum]

Oh, right. And then you gotta make a breaking sound.

[Bo]

Yeah. Okay. Ready, Stephen? Thank you, Steven.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And then opening for Kiss, which was somewhat terrifying because they're, like, known to have some of the most. You know, we. We did get booed a little bit, but they said we got booed a lot less than some of the other bands that they had open at Madison's.

[Host]

Them and Slayer.

[Bo]

They have an army and a navy. You know what I mean? So it's tough. What are 311 heads?

[Host]

All right.

[Bo]

What are 3 11. 311 heads called.

[Nick Hexum]

We got excitables or the 311 nation.

[Bo]

311 nation's pretty good.

[Host]

It's good.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. Excitables. The Hive is kind of another that

[Host]

has a couple meanings for you guys, right?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And then it became our studio, but it just came out of a. There was. In the. In like 94. There was some rap lyrics about this is the go for self era. And. And then after that, I was like, no, this is 95. We go for the hive. Like, we. And then it became a lyric in that song. It became the name of our studio. And I like it.

[Host]

I love it. Do you think the down video is the first music video that you remember?

[Bo]

Madonna. Madonna, for sure.

[Host]

Madonna was the first.

[Bo]

And then Down. Yeah.

[Host]

I was so young that.

[Bo]

That he's a little younger than me. I'm 38. He's a bit younger.

[Host]

The lyric hearing you say or essay says, a dream of juice. I was young enough where that meant something to me because, you know, we were like, me too, man.

[Bo]

He gets.

[Host]

I can't wait to have my juice in the morning.

[Nick Hexum]

There we go.

[Host]

Turn it up.

[Bo]

Juicy Juice, you know?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Bo]

This was a big. I. I remember thinking you were the same guy when I was young. It was the same person singing both parts, you know, Big moment for the spooky apparition.

[Nick Hexum]

This is.

[Host]

Oh, he's pretty. He's the diverse.

[Bo]

Pretty crazy.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, his. He's a better rapper, so, like, giving him the verses in. In down and like, I just. But I knew that hook that. Yeah, the. The chorus was like super strong and a lot. And the. The riffs, which I. I do have to credit, like a Helmet influence.

[Bo]

You can. With the harmonic thing. Absolutely.

[Nick Hexum]

Wow. And there's some Soundgarden influence in there, you know, but with Chad's beats, with more of a hip hop sensibility, it created something.

[Bo]

And the tightest piccolo snare.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, yeah. I. I actually. I was like, he's kind of lowered it. I was like, yeah, cranking back up a little bit like the old days.

[Host]

Yeah, it's in the tiny desk. I feel like he cranked that sucker. Are you still keeping track of, like, other than Helmet and, you know, Bad Brains? Are you. Are you keeping track of, like, contemporary punk and hardcore at this time during that era?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Host]

Mid-90s.

[Nick Hexum]

Well, we went on the Warp tour, so getting to see, you know, H2O and blink before Travis.

[Bo]

Yeah. Really?

[Nick Hexum]

Pennywise, no effects.

[Host]

You're a big no effects guy, right?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, yeah, that. Like, the way they had a higher music, like the harmonies on Punk and Drublic was like, okay, this is.

[Host]

They came original right here. You know, what are you going to do?

[Nick Hexum]

They sure did.

[Bo]

I thought you were asking me. And I was like, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Like, does hate breed come across your desk at some point? You're like, yeah, this is hard.

[Nick Hexum]

No, I had too far. Yeah, I mean, I probably like it. I think you would just. Certain things just get lobbed over my fence. I love Lamb of God. That's like five, baby. Workout 5B.

[Host]

That's right. Pardon this interruption. We hate to get you all mixed up while listening to this incredible episode, but we gotta tell you about one quick thing.

[Bo]

Who do we got? Colin.

[Host]

This episode is brought to you by Braindead. It is safe to say there is no brand more directly aligned with both the identity of this show and that comes original more than brain dead.

[Bo]

That's right. We've done multiple live events there. We did the green room interview and commentary stuff there. They're always involved directly with fests and shows and screenings and Sound and Fury and all the things that we all love.

[Host]

Not only do they make some of our favorite denim and apparel, but they do incredible collabs with the likes of Morbid Angel, Godzilla, Brody King and even Cannibal Corpse, which you can pick up right [e-mail] Like Bo said, we've been doing our annual Sound and Fury live pre show there for three years now and we're working on the next one as we speak. So go to studios.wearebraindead.com check out the calendar, see what's playing this month. Whenever you're watching this. At the end of this month, on March 29, there is a special free screening of the Fly with exclusive merch. It's first come, first serve, so it's bound to be a beautiful disaster and you know, maybe we'll see you there. Back to the episode. So touring on the self titled your world changes now.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Host]

The RVs are no more certainly it's bus time. Like going when does 311 go to Europe for the first time? What's that like?

[Nick Hexum]

Oh yeah, we played, I think we played Glastonbury.

[Host]

Big one.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

On maybe it was 94. So on the grassroots tour. Wow. Yeah. But they were not ready for us. It was not. It didn't.

[Host]

A year later though, they were tied eyed out dancing.

[Nick Hexum]

But I don't know, I honestly, I have a bit of regret that we didn't spend enough time overseas, you know, connecting with those people. We, we became a little bit spoiled by how good things were in the States. So.

[Host]

Sure.

[Nick Hexum]

But we've been putting in, you know, we went to Europe last year and we just got back from South America and Central America.

[Bo]

I bet that was lit.

[Nick Hexum]

It was insane. Like the, the crowds were. It was, it was like a truly 90s vibe of like the energy that was coming back.

[Bo]

I love that.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Makes me really happy to hear you really do.

[Host]

Got to come to Brazil.

[Bo]

It also I want you to know as, as people who have toured Europe many times and struggled in Europe many times, it makes me feel good to know that 311, the 311 did two. You know that it was like. Yeah, they weren't really ready for us.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Nick Hexum]

We. And, and I remember as we were hitting, really hitting our, our kind of second wind around Amber we still were on Sony at the time and our manager played the video for Amber to a. In a meeting of the label in Europe and they were like, it's very California.

[Host]

Like I do not get it.

[Bo]

I cannot relate to this.

[Host]

It's quite laid back. Yeah, I can see that. So now you have the impossible task of following up this massive success and you do that by Putting out a 21 song, 68 minute would be double LP transistor. What happened there? Great, like bold, awesome decision, but an interesting one.

[Nick Hexum]

And I. Whenever we talk about Transistor, I kind of want to remind people that there was. There was a significant bash, lack backlash of people saying 311 sucks now because we weren't doing the. An album full of riff rock like they were used to on the Blue album. So it was. The label was definitely disappointed by how Transistor was received and it was a pretty big. We just felt like we don't want to just keep repeating our. You know, we. We want to make sure that we're challenging ourselves and our fans to make sure we're putting creativity first. And there was a lot of new influences coming in of like dub reggae and trip hop from England and dance hall reggae and like just kind of all over the place. And you know, Tim with his, you know, jam band cool licks and stuff like that. So we where the Blue album was like, let's just make a killer album. That's for that. Every song is going to be great live Energy, energy. And this album was like we're not. Let's not even worry about how it's going to be live. Let's just like go with the trippiness, the psychedelia, the you know, studio filigree and just it's.

[Bo]

It's title almost, you know, like it makes sense. And then we're gonna. Okay. You know.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

But that being said, beautiful disaster.

[Host]

Yeah. What's that?

[Bo]

I better be disappointed about that is Sony. I'm losing my mind on the way here. Listen to that song.

[Host]

And that was first song written for the album.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And I'd been listening to a lot of no Effects punk and Drublic. Yeah. So it really. And then we'd also been touring with the urge from St. Louis and they would have these really cool intros, these horn like three part horn intros. And I was like, we could do that on guitar. And then it came out, you know, that sort of like Thin Lizzy like harmonizing guitar thing that was like influenced by that kind of like ska bands that had these like Horn intros and stuff like that.

[Bo]

I love that you did that instead of bringing in horn. So cool.

[Host]

And as the only credited writer on this song. Does that feel good? You proud? Particularly proud of this one.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. My mom loves the song Beautiful Disaster. It really.

[Host]

Look at us.

[Nick Hexum]

It just. It really paints a picture, I guess. And then because I didn't want it to just be like, negative, like, I can't care. I do. I don't. Whatever. Like, I don't, you know, that you're. You're torn of like somebody that, you know, that is not like, really good for you. But, you know, you're attracted to the carefree attitude and, you know, it's beautiful, you know.

[Bo]

And I have a couple questions about this. The very first note that's palm muted on this song, there's an undertone. And I noticed you do it live too, because you intro the song live, right? Like, you start the song off.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

And it's like. And then it goes. Single string. What is that?

[Nick Hexum]

So I wanted to have some feedback. So I actually had a. I split the signal and had an extra rack mount amp that had a Rocktron one, a one 12 inch in a cabinet that I would point at the guitar to make it feedback. That would just make the give. Give the riffs more energy. So. And I would just hit the guitar. And then also during the sort of the vamp, that kind of outro that happened after the chorus going. Yeah. And then if you. When you have a speaker pointed at the guitar at the time, it makes those harmonics really, really ring out.

[Host]

That first note.

[Bo]

I'm talking about the actual first note. It sounds like you're barring two and two, let's say. Because. Is it two? Oh, yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

It was a little sloppy.

[Bo]

That's all that you do it live, which I. Which I like. I appreciate you're doing the thing.

[Nick Hexum]

You know what I mean? Yeah. I try and just have the same approach because I like.

[Bo]

I love that you also do a thing in this. And I would kind of want to find the first time a band did this, you do what we call. There's a band called Marauder that we love. They do the marauder chord. But there's. It's like when you would play a power chord on the. On the A.

[Host]

The fully barred power.

[Bo]

But then you. You also match the root to the E string and you go. You do that big fat bar chord.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. So that we knew that lower frequencies made it more heavy. So what A lot of people don't know that the octave or Pedal is all over all those albums and we still. It's still a big part of what we do today. But we didn't really want to be like another seven string guitar band. So we would do a lot of inversions that made it so, you know, when if you're playing like a C chord, you're also playing the G below it to give it that real dense kind of inverted fifth that made it heavy. And to us without having. Was still just all standard tuning.

[Host]

Just E standard. Yeah, sometimes it sounds like G sharp, you know.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. It was just by finding those overtones of the inversions crazy.

[Bo]

And. And lastly, you play the second guitar in this, like with the. The lead part and the intro part. Had you done that prior or was this kind of your first like. Well, for this song I need to play the guitar to the duel.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, that. I think that was the first dual lead thing. And growing up in Omaha, we heard so many bands do that kind of thing and like Kansas and you know, all these like classic rock kind of bands that had a lot of like the dual lead kind of thing, but nobody else was doing it. An alternative that. That I remember. So that was kind of a bit of a breakthrough and that we. We've kept with us ever since.

[Host]

Beautiful disaster with 21 tracks, some things are bound to get lost somewhere. Is there. Even though the record did go platinum so, you know, success. Is there a song you wish was a single or got more love from Transistor?

[Nick Hexum]

Well, I just one thing about the approach of it is that the same way that the Clash did a triple album of Sandinista and then they. They put on there that it was only supposed to cost like 8.99 to force. So you were giving tons of bang for your buck. Was we. We had that same approach to say we're just going to be restrained by how much the CD will hold.

[Bo]

Yeah. The literal data.

[Nick Hexum]

Fill it up. And the label was like, you cannot fit another song on here. So we actually wrote 30 songs for that album and cut nine of them to. To be on that. And we were just like, anything goes. Just say yes to everything. And I think the other guys were really coming into their stride as writers at the time. You know, with Sa writing music for the first. You know, the instrument side of things for the first time. And Peanut and Tim and. And before that had been more me and Chad. Um. And. But what was your question? Like anything.

[Host]

A song in particular that you kind of wish got more praise.

[Nick Hexum]

I. I don't know this. The closer stealing Happy Hours is just a really nice, like, we. We play it live a fair amount. There's kind of sleepers mixed in there kind of throughout and then. But there was, I don't know, only a couple bangers, like, what was I thinking? And Beautiful Disaster. Oh, and like Galaxy. But definitely was. Had the most percentage of like, clean guitar, softer songs, but than any of our albums.

[Host]

So at this point, is every 311 show just a sea of people by this time?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Host]

And so what constitutes a good show and a bad show?

[Nick Hexum]

Well, let's see. On the Transist tour we called it, we had Incubus and Sugar Ray opening and then we moved into arenas and amphitheaters kind of the first time as. As a headliner. And yeah, I remember a lot of good shows, but I also kind of started to feel a feeling of pressure and that's when I would get in and out of phases of like, doing too many drugs and then cleaning up my act and back and forth until like, finally getting cleaned up. But it was. It was. It was an exciting time. But I do remember a feeling of pressure there. Before that we had just been like, hungry. Like, we're going to make our mark in the world. Like, we're going to make people pay attention and we're just going to. And then. Oh, now everyone's actually paying attention.

[Host]

Like, now what?

[Nick Hexum]

It was like a shift. Yeah.

[Host]

Sound system recorded in 1999. Was Y2K at all a concern to 311?

[Nick Hexum]

So we took. We were really burned out after the Transist tour and we took 98 off, except for the first month we were. We did the Australian Warped Tour. But February through December was off. So we. We really needed a break because we had been at it. And so we all like, got houses and settled down. We all lived in like, Laurel Canyon within a mile of each other.

[Bo]

What hobby did you get into? Sure you got into something.

[Nick Hexum]

I did some surfing for the first time. I got dogs decorating a house and, you know, learning to be a grown up was.

[Bo]

That was your year to learn.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, we'll get there. And then. And then, yeah, then we got into the studio for sound system and then we were like, all right, we're kind of ready to. To rock a little harder again after there. I love that transistor is, you know, embraced now. But that, like I said, there was a bit of a backlash of people saying 311's gone soft, they suck now. So we kind of. Then the pendulum was swinging back towards, like, the heavy riffs and The Paul Muting opening of like Freeze Time and. And then I remember we were like Hugh Padjim, like, he's. This is a super successful producer with like the Police and XTC and Phil Collins. And then when he got there, he was kind of like, I just want you to know I really don't work on the songs. I'm just going to like record them really good for you. And I was like, oh, I thought you were going to help me with like Every Breath youh Take, part two.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Nick Hexum]

But I, you know, it was a cool.

[Host]

Which is kind of what you were used to with. With Ron in a way, right? Other than the energy.

[Nick Hexum]

Exactly. It was. It was another. More of an engineer focused producer. So it was cool. But I. But I did. I always wanted help and you know, input from. So that's why, like I said, working with with Bob Rock was really cool because he like the biggest bag of tricks.

[Host]

There's a song on one of the Bob Rock records I can't wait to talk about. But before then, we have got to come original.

[Nick Hexum]

Oh my God.

[Host]

My God, dude. This fucking banger. Tell me about writing come original.

[Nick Hexum]

So part of the writing of that was me and Sa and our buddy Brian Ling going down to jamaica in. In 98 to infiltrate like the. The dance hall scene. And like, we went because Native Wayne, who. You hear his voice going cam original on the. He was like. He is kind of the world's leading reggae impresario. I just saw him about a month ago to do a benefit song for the Jamaica. Just got worked over in the Hurricane last year. But so he had us come down and stay at his condo and told us like where to go in Montego Bay and St. Ann's and Ocho Rios. And like, he was like, okay, so like, the real reggae places are down here. And like, you can go if you want. I think you'll be fine. And we went down and we were like the only white people there. And like these massive walls of speakers just. And we were just like grooving and dancing and mixing with the locals and buying people Red Stripes. And so came back from that and like that dance hall was really in us. Like the clubs, the cool clubs at the time were playing like, you know, Beanie man and Shakademus and pliers and like these. This really cool dance hall music. And then. But to do like rock riff combined with the dancehall rhythm that we were into from the club scene and the dance hall, that was. That was a unique blend. And then I Had heard Peanut do this like sick bass line. I was like, we can do that for the rap sections of. You know, we'll have a dance hall. Yeah, he's slapping.

[Host]

Slapping that thing.

[Nick Hexum]

He's beating that thing. So yeah, he co wrote that with me. But it's almost like a.

[Host]

It's like off time with that.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

The guitar is playing the reggaeton beat, but the drums are just four.

[Bo]

Four.

[Host]

It's awesome.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And reggaeton was actually not even a term. And reggaeton came after that when Hispanic people started into the dance hall rhythms. But yeah, that's now Bad Bunny died at the Super Bowl. That's basically going back to that same. Those the roots of Jamaica, but.

[Host]

And then no effects. And Black Eyed Peas got a shout out in the song.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And Ronnie Size. Because I was. The early drum and bass was a thing. I was like, this is like EDM with more. And EDM was not it term back then. I was like, this is like techno, but it rocks with this. So that was an influence. Yeah, we're just talking about originality and. And just creative freedom. That's what that song.

[Bo]

So your message was all.

[Host]

All.

[Bo]

All you entertainers, you got to do something original like this.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

That was basically.

[Host]

Where did the term come from? Is that something you overheard in Jamaica?

[Bo]

Maybe?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, I would.

[Host]

I mean I heard it and I was like, he's right.

[Bo]

He's right. I do.

[Host]

Who this is. Who played the.

[Bo]

He's gonna do it. It's gonna kill me. And I'm sorry.

[Host]

Who played the boing on Come original. You get the best boingest in the world. That one.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, that was. That would have been the dancehall sample CD that I had that I put into my Rack Mount Akai sampler that was made by Sly and Robbie, who. I think one of them just passed away and. Yeah. And that they had a sample CD with all those same reggae song dancehall sounds from like Murder She Wrote and like those hits. So I was like, it's all over. Just dropped in. We kind of put it low in the mix because we wanted the real instruments to be first.

[Host]

But wow, luckily not too low.

[Bo]

So there were there.

[Host]

Because I've been for years.

[Bo]

Well, because also we.

[Nick Hexum]

We didn't talk about it, but never stop boinging.

[Host]

Thank you.

[Bo]

There's a triangle in Beautiful Disaster. Also the ding.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

And it's kind of. It's kind of reggaeton in itself because of where it is in the placement. Is that sample two or was somebody playing?

[Nick Hexum]

That's actually from that same cd. So I would just assign all these different sounds to different keys and then just be like,

[Bo]

wow, cool.

[Host]

That's awesome.

[Bo]

Very cool.

[Host]

So I think music journalism has. Has grown in general, but I think it's become more and more retrospectively kind to 311. And I'm learning a lot. I learned a lot through just researching for this episode how unkind it could be at times. And I'm wondering when that was something that you learned to tune out.

[Nick Hexum]

I think that we didn't have a lot of expectations to be immediately embraced. Like, here's the next big thing. You know, we just. I just didn't feel like, you know, coming out of Omaha that that was likely. So we just kind of presumed that it was. It wasn't going to be like an easy.

[Host]

But you're selling out amphitheaters, you're selling millions of records. So it's like, are you just seeing that peripheral and being like, that doesn't matter because this is.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And we had these other examples of, like, them. They said Led Zeppelin sucked too. So, like, they don't know shit. So we're just keep making music straight for the fans and also taking sort of a business model from jam bands of being like, the most important thing is to do a great live show. And the CDs and everything came secondary, which fortunate was fortunate for us because then the CD business completely collapsed, which was. I remember during Sound System, when we. Sound system came out online, like a week before it actually came out. And our manager was like, it's here. And I can't get them to take it down because it's just a bunch of fucking kids. And they're telling me, like, enough of you and delete and kick me off the message board. So we were like, okay, you know, we're a live band first anyway. We're going to tour every summer. And so we had kind of luckily preempted the whole collapse of the recorded music business.

[Bo]

You were kind of. You were preppers. Inadvertent preppers.

[Nick Hexum]

Do stay prepping.

[Bo]

Yeah, totally.

[Host]

You got your beans and rice and oats. So now. Now it's time to open the hive.

[Bo]

What.

[Host]

What inspires you guys to make your own studio in the Valley?

[Nick Hexum]

I mean, we just knew that, like, it was $1,000 a day to get, like, a nice studio. So why do that?

[Bo]

And that's 90s money too.

[Nick Hexum]

Yes.

[Host]

That's like a half a million dollars.

[Nick Hexum]

Yes.

[Host]

A month.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. So I just did some digging and to see that there was like, this Great studio that had. Had, you know, Stevie Wonder in it and stuff that was available for rent. So the first hive.

[Host]

There's two hives.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. The first hive was for. For only for sound system that we rented. And then we. We put our own gear in there and we had like. We didn't buy tape machines at that point. I think that we. We went and recorded drums at a regular studio, but it was only like a couple. No, no, no. We recorded drums there too. Maybe we did bring in a tape machine. But anyway. And then I was like, well, why are we renting this? Because there's this other studio over here for sale and that has, you know, our current hive, which has had a really nice remodel lately, was like this kind of hot spot for new wave in the 80s. You know, they had like Supertramp and Devo and Missing Persons and all this, like, cool new wave had been recorded there. But when we bought it, we bought it from the Sherry Lewis and Lamb Chop estate. Like she had filmed her puppet shows there, the TV show.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Nick Hexum]

In the 80s. And then she passed away. I'm not exactly sure when, but. And then we bought it. We bought it from her estate and then that's been a permanent hive since the From Chaos album.

[Host]

Let's talk about it.

[Nick Hexum]

So, yeah, I guess that's like 26 years in. We've had it. Wow.

[Bo]

Did you. When you acquired it, did you remodel it and make it your own or did you kind of. Was it kind of pre. Furnished and ready to rock or.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, when we. When we first got it, we recorded there for a couple albums with it as is. And it. It had that like real 70s, like, ski lodge look of like all this, like just bare wood everywhere and. But that gave us like the amber drum sound and stuff. But then it started to kind of fall apart. So we've. We did a remodel there before the Uplifter album, and then now we just did another one.

[Bo]

How fun is it to build out a studio when you have the means to do kind of whatever you want? That has to be the coolest thing in the world.

[Nick Hexum]

It is. And then because Ron St. Germain is such a gearhead, he was telling us, he was like, he doesn't care for ssl. He doesn't like those boards. He's a Neve guy. The warm analog sound. And he was like, the very best board in the world is the Amec 9098i. And it has the. It's made by Rupert Neve. It has the Neve Sound, but the full recallability of a more modern board, but the classic sound. And he was like, they only made 10 of them. There's one in Chicago at R. Kelly Studio. He's selling it.

[Bo]

I wonder why.

[Nick Hexum]

And it was around the time of his first canceling, but he kind of recovered from that one. But anyway, he sold. He sold us his mixing board. And did you sage it? Yes, we saged it.

[Bo]

We.

[Nick Hexum]

We had it blessed. And that is. And now that's the one. There's only five of them in the entire world in operation and only one in California. And it's ours. Some engineers say it's the best mixing board that there is. Wow.

[Bo]

I believe Will Yip has one of them. I believe Contra Hockey.

[Host]

That's unbelievable.

[Bo]

Pennsylvania has another one.

[Host]

So it's from Chaos. From Chaos. First record in the hive.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Host]

Couple bangers on this one.

[Bo]

We got to talk about one.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Bo]

I'll be here a while. Beautiful song. Love the fact that it's double time and not halftime. You know what I mean? Because if it was, I'll be totally different.

[Nick Hexum]

Just be another ballad.

[Bo]

Yeah, another ballad. But it's got energy. You can literally like moon stomp to it. Like you can dance to it. The radio stations do this thing that drives me insane where they kind of fade out the end of a song and start talking over it and do their. And it drives me nuts. I knew this fact once, but I forgot about it. You just sing a Bad Brains part.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

At the end of the song.

[Nick Hexum]

And this is from I and I Survive.

[Bo]

Absolutely. Which is a Rock for Light song, which is my favorite record by them. This is relatively late. Not late, but, you know, relatively into your career as a band. Like this is something you would almost expect early, you know.

[Host]

But now it's safe.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. But you're doing it and you're wearing an influence on your sleeve, which is something we greatly appreciate as people who love to know the stories and just blah, blah. I just, I realized when we were doing this research that the key is the same and it's kind of a two chord song, you know. And it's the same as I survived. So I'm just wondering how it happened.

[Nick Hexum]

It just like it just needed to be said. And I was like, I it. I wanted to do an ad lib. Ad lib. And nobody's better at ad libbing than hr you know what I mean?

[Host]

Screeched it.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And he just. The way he plays with melody and that really his vocal influence comes from me and you hear a lot of Horace Andy, who's like the great dub reggae singer from the King Tubby days. And then he was in. In Massive Attack for a while and has that really strong vibrato that you can hear HR and so there's just like a family tree going that. I heard it from HR And I was like, oh, he got that from Horace Andy. But the funny thing about that song is that I've had so many people go, 3:11. Aren't you that ska band? I'm like, yeah. On one song, on I'll Be Here A While, we're kind of a ska band. But like.

[Bo]

But no horns.

[Host]

No horns. It's okay to be a. The one time ska band if it's like a perfect ska song, which this is. And then the Bad Brains toss in at the end, you're fine. So all the credibility in the world.

[Bo]

So again, like I told you, when, when we do stuff like this, when

[Host]

we fly out, we.

[Bo]

We deep dive, you know, we just listen to everything. And I was at the airport on my way here the other day, and this, this one came on and let it play through because I had a layover, you know, and. And it wasn't. There wasn't some disc jockey talking over it. And I like, I had like that moment, you know, where I just. I was like, oh, here it is. Yeah, this is the connection that people might wonder.

[Host]

Fugazi for a show.

[Bo]

Fugazi for a show.

[Host]

Bad Brains riff on the thing doing the same noises.

[Nick Hexum]

And I'm glad you guys have a positive look on that because I've like, I dropped a little lyric. I remember a guy on a message board saying, I hate that song. I'll be here while. Because he rips off Bad Brains. I was like, no, I was giving it props. Like, if you're a punk rocker, you knew where that came from. It's an homage. And the same thing in the song Hive, I drop a classic lyric from the song It Takes Two by Rob Bass and DJ Eazy. Rock and Rolling Stone was like, that's appropriation. I was like, no, it's a quote. It's like I'm giving props to the old school lyric. Just like. But whatever.

[Host]

Everything comes from somewhere.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. We're standing on the shoulders of giants

[Bo]

and you're being told by people who don't make music that it's bad. And that's the ultimate. Like, I don't care what you have to say because. More. Nine times out of ten, you talk to the original creator of some Song that got covered and was made different or made their own. They love it. They all love it.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, but you really have to. Artists are sensitive and developing some kind of a bit of a thick skin is. Is like a skill that you have to develop in order to not go too crazy. Like, as Turnstile was coming up, I was talking to Brendan a lot. And I know that them coming from such a hardcore scene that there's. There's purists that would get mad that, hey, you've got keyboards in now. What's going on? And he had just such a great attitude and that, like, man, opinions are gonna just vary so widely that you just have to, like, roll with it and let it go, because it is possible that you take it to heart and then you go drive yourself crazy. And I've heard stories of people, like, Googling themselves over and over to see what people are saying about themselves. And that's like, don't do it. That's like anxiety mental institution causing. If you let you know your need for approval, take you to that kind of place.

[Bo]

And at the end of the day, you guys, Turnstile, they'll be here a while.

[Host]

Yeah, sure. Oh, very good. Very good. Another little song on this record called Amber turned out to be the biggest one, huh?

[Bo]

The one.

[Host]

And like you said earlier, he was like, yeah, I got this other one,

[Bo]

I guess, which is like, that's lagrange ZZ Top, you know, that's like, what's the. The Peter Chris song? The ballad.

[Nick Hexum]

Oh, Beth, that's the best.

[Bo]

You know, and it's like, yeah, I have this one. And it ends up being one of the biggest songs. You know, I would imagine presenting this as a. I also have this. You were surprised.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, I think it was. I mean, I think the true family tree of that song came from Tim making the song Champagne first, which had that guitar. And Tim was actually here today recording some teewa. And then. So then when I came up with the Amber thing, it was basically like the Son of Champagne.

[Bo]

Did you come up with that riff?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Does he resign?

[Nick Hexum]

I actually. I played it on keyboard.

[Host]

Oh, okay.

[Bo]

Does he resent you for having to play that every night? Because that's not.

[Host]

That's so smooth.

[Bo]

One of those chili pepper riffs where you can't. It's clean.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

And it's kind of. Or police. It's kind of a message in a

[Host]

bottle where it's like, there's no gain that.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Host]

That can save you.

[Bo]

You can't hide behind it, you know?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, No, I I think we all enjoy playing the classics just because we know what they mean to people now,

[Bo]

like, do they take you to that time, too?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And we're there to be of service, so it's not only about our enjoyment. We're there to facilitate this, the collective experience, the live show. And when I go to a show, I want to hear classics that have meant a ton to me and. But you don't want to only do the classics either. So that's why we make a fresh set list every night to be like, you know, throwing little bones. Yeah.

[Bo]

Fascinating.

[Host]

I watched a video of your Warped Tour set last year, and it's Banger,

[Bo]

Banger, banger, banger, banger, banger.

[Host]

Deep cut.

[Nick Hexum]

Banger, banger, banger, banger.

[Host]

That's how you do it. Reward the real ones, you know?

[Bo]

Are you asking the rainstorm to take you away from the north or, like, as a.

[Nick Hexum]

You've got the lyrics all wrong.

[Bo]

Okay, please enlighten me.

[Nick Hexum]

Brainstorm, brainstorm. Take me away from the norm. Please, brain, Take me into a new place.

[Bo]

Oh, now I get it.

[Nick Hexum]

So I'm asking.

[Host]

You were looking at it.

[Nick Hexum]

I'm asking the muse to lead me.

[Bo]

I'm a very nautical.

[Host]

You were Tolkien.

[Bo]

I'm nautical in my senses, you know, so I'm.

[Host]

Let the rain take.

[Bo]

I'm at sea, you know. What can I say? That's fascinating.

[Nick Hexum]

Wow. Layers.

[Host]

So, yeah. Amber. Amber. Number one song, I guess. I got this one.

[Nick Hexum]

It's a very weird road map of a song because it goes like. It starts with riff and then vamp and then like 16 bars of ad libbing and then a chorus and then a verse and then a chorus and then like a dub breakdown and then a guitar solo and then another solo and then a bridge and then another verse.

[Host]

Structural madness.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, it's. It was. It's completely outside of the box. So that's why. I don't know, really. It was a very slow burn. Like, it took a long time to get going. And then it was. It really hit its peak, like a couple years. I. I think our. Our ticket sales, like, as far as attendance really, like around 05 through 07 was. 04 through 07 was. That's when. Besides, Amber was playing a lot. And then Love Song came in and the whole 51st date soundtrack. So it was just Adam, Happy accident, just, like, letting things happen.

[Bo]

Music video as well for Amber was. I remember seeing it often. Often.

[Nick Hexum]

Often, yeah. It was by the Malloy brothers, who were like, surfer guys are like super surfer guys, I think they managed Jack Johnson or something, and they. They were like, we love this song. We're just gonna do our thing with. From making surf videos in Hawaii, but we did it down on a. This, like. And those shacks on the beach, basically. There was this really weird little surf community that had been there forever, but the city had finally evicted them. And so it was just about to be demolished when we shot that music video.

[Host]

So now it's immortalized.

[Bo]

Yeah, you got it. Wow.

[Host]

So you mentioned lovesong. Let's get into it.

[Bo]

Yeah, I'll talk about that.

[Host]

Is this a cover? You record for the sake of recording a cover, or is this just.

[Nick Hexum]

Not at all. It was because Adam Sandler loved the song Amber. And then he said, for my movie set in Hawaii with Drew Barrymore, 50 First Dates, I want to do. Have the whole album, the whole movie, have the Sound of Amber, but I want to do covers of romantic,'80s classic alternative songs done in a reggae style. Genius. So, yeah, it was like this cool vision that I have to give him all the credit for. And like I said, me and Tim's band played. We played like, seven or eight Cure songs. But it was the earlier stuff, you know, the, like, in between days and earlier pornography stuff. Yeah. Head on the Door and then. But this was deconstruction. That was. I actually wasn't that familiar with Love Song disintegration. Disintegration, yes. Yeah. And so. But he suggests. He was like, you. You could do a great cover of Love Song. And I was like, okay. And I just. At that point, I had. Let's see, we were on tour with Incubus again, and I decided to get my own bus so I could bring my dogs with me and. And also have a recording studio now, at the time.

[Bo]

Yeah, like.

[Nick Hexum]

Like, this is. This is how I want to spend my money is Spring for my own bus. And I took out the bunks. And at that time, to have a decent recording studio, you. You still needed a lot of gear, rack mounts of the, you know, big. Big Mac.

[Host]

Now you just need a Universal audio console.

[Nick Hexum]

Exactly, exactly. But at the time. So I modified a bus. So I was like. And we were on tour when I got the call about Love Song. And I was like, let me see what I can do. And I just. And then we. We did that. Well, we did. We made the whole Love Song that you hear. It was all done on tour. We recorded the drums at a sound check in a club. I think it was the Electric Factory in Philly.

[Host]

Whoa.

[Bo]

Played there many times.

[Nick Hexum]

Nice. And Then and did all the overdubs in the bus. And then he also. I was like, I love this idea. How about Lips Like Sugar, the Echo and the Bunnyman song? How about Stop the World and Melt with youh? And he was like, great, great, great. And so I ended up producing four more songs for that soundtrack and getting Seal to sing Lips Like Sugar and Jason Mraz to sing Stop the World and Melt with youh and Dryden from Ant Farm to sing Friday I'm in Love. And so it was like. And that all happened on this, like, long tour that we were on.

[Host]

Productive tour.

[Nick Hexum]

Yes.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Nick Hexum]

So it was like. That was the most time that I've ever been part of, like, the Music Machine. Cause, like, going to the premiere and like, they 311 was all over that movie. Like, not. Not just those two songs that I mentioned, but, like, Rub a dub off of. From off of Transistor was. Was in the movie in different. You know, so it was. It was a pretty cool time to be in the Zeitgeist.

[Host]

Was that your first interaction with Adam Sandler?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, yeah. Again, that guy Brian Ling, who we went to. Brian Ling had made a lot of cool connections. He. He was friends with Adam Sandler, and he was also friends with Shaq to be in our video. And then Shaq came and performed a song with us at the Weenie Roast right after the Lakers won the championship song. We did a song that we did with him because he was like. He was doing a rap record and he was like, I want to do a rock song. And ling was like, 3:11. Those are your boys. So we made this song called Psycho, which is like a rock song. And so we played it live at the Weenie Roast, and the place went absolutely apeshit. It was nuts.

[Host]

Unbelievable.

[Bo]

I want to play Psycho. That's amazing.

[Host]

Evolver would be next up. What comes to mind from that era for you?

[Nick Hexum]

Really getting into deep diving on the Beatles, learning tons of Beatles songs, reading books about the Beatles, exploring Abbey Road and Revolver, and just, you know, I. Only dumb people try and compare themselves to the Beatles, But I was trying to absorb the masters as much as possible during that time. So you'll hear a lot of the harmonies getting bigger. Also the ELO kind of, you know, harmonies with, like, singing the very highest falsetto that you can possibly do. Yeah, yeah. Doing songs like Same Mistake Twice. And that had that kind of more crazy vocal production in there. And then the song Creatures for a while. Often Evolver. To me, that was like a big. To have a song that Rocks that hard. That isn't one of your super oldies. That was like a big kind of accomplishment. And that's still like one of the closers that we.

[Bo]

Oh, nice.

[Host]

Yeah. Because you mentioned Beatles ELO and all these advanced new techniques you're learning late into your career. But this song is like heavy dang,

[Nick Hexum]

da da da da. Heavy chorus, these little key changes, these modulations that to me sounded a little beatly, but combined with like a. It's the same tempo as down, because down was probably the song that made people go the most nuts. So instead of. I was like, it's that.

[Host]

So the intention here is the energy is.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, a lot of it. Yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah, I see.

[Host]

How do your songwriting goals change and evolve 10 years later? Setting out to make. Are you setting out to make, you know, a couple more songs that you're psyched to play live or is it just, hey, let's write another killer record?

[Nick Hexum]

Well, I keep my expectations low because I know that it's just something that I enjoy so much to. To make music and, you know, whether it becomes as important as our other music, I. That I don't know. And you keep your expectations low because, you know, we've been. We're coming on our 36 year anniversary, so it's. You know, some artists just say it's not even worth it. People aren't even checking out our new stuff. But I know that it's something that I enjoy so much and that the band enjoys. And then also to get into, you know, exploring, like really, you know, this kind of Americana stuff that I. I did last year, that was just like going into really the dark caves of my psyche to talk about stuff that I didn't really want to talk about. But I knew that it was cathartic for me. And also other people had been through similar stuff, whether it was, you know, my brother passing away or, you know, addiction and, you know, different. Different things that I felt like I. I hadn't talked about yet. So it was a lot of fun for me to. To make that music. And even if it doesn't really,

[Bo]

you

[Nick Hexum]

know, catch on a lot doesn't matter. I just, I. That's what Rick Rubin spoke says is like, you got to have courage to keep doing frequent releases and not, you know, live. Live and die by how. How they're received. You know, you know, a writer writes and so. But we always. We're also performers too. So it's like, you know, a lot of artists at our phase of career might just become. I'm a Song and dance, man. You know what I mean? I just. I go out and play the oldies, and that's a big part of what we do. But then also to keep that creativity going is, you know, I. I still can get really excited about other people's new music as well as my own. And. And the. And my collaborators in the band, like, it's.

[Host]

Those are your guys.

[Nick Hexum]

It's all still there. We.

[Bo]

I mean, we listen to stuff that comes out all the time, whether it's from underground music or more mainstream music or whatever. We're constantly checking out new music and going back or revisiting a band and revisiting or seeing their new record, I should say, and finding a song that

[Host]

connects with you, it's the best.

[Bo]

Feels so good. So there's no reason to ever stop. The newest Alice in Chains record is unbelievable. Like. Like Jerry still got it. You never know.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, Jerry's so talented. I just listened to Nothing Shocking in its entirety today. And that just brought me back. I was like, this is so weird and so cool. There nothing like this before Jane's Addiction, you know, beautiful.

[Host]

You did a greatest hits record after this, which pre streaming is like a huge deal like that. This went num. This hit number seven on the Billboard 200. And you can just check that out with playlists now. Everybody's got a greatest hit playlist. But yeah.

[Bo]

What.

[Host]

How. What's the approach like for that? How involved are you in that? And is this something you care about at the time?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, I mean, we definitely had input on which songs to include. Like, the song beyond the Gray sky wasn't a hit, but in our world it was because it was very important moment for us to play live to, you know, to talk about, you know, people who we've lost and talk about getting through depression and the story about losing a friend to suicide. And so. So, like, that's on the greatest hits, but it wasn't a greatest hit at all. But. So, yeah, we. We definitely had input on there. And then, you know, we did the obligatory two new songs to. To include. And we worked with David Kahn, who, you know, he had done like Sublime and Sugar Ray and Paul McCartney and some cool people. So I actually learned a ton from him on those.

[Host]

So Don't Tread on Me would be next opening song, title track. Is this a live staple now? It should be.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. We. It. It hadn't been, but we. Last year we started playing it.

[Host]

Great song. Pretty often the decision to do that kind of like you. You talked about this earlier with you and essays, harmonies, how sometimes it's the. It's just there. But then you cross that bridge. There's like that dissonant harmony that you go into the. Ah. Where it's like the brain doesn't expect you to go there when you're listening to this song. Was that a deliberate thing or.

[Nick Hexum]

I just felt just. It just came out naturally.

[Bo]

Wow. We were talking in. In the car, like, no, they. There's a reason. What a crazy choice they had to do it this way.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. I remember that we actually had a big fight with our label at that point that led to us parting ways with them because they were like, you don't have a single on this. You know, you guys need to go back into the studio. And I was like, I think this is. This album is as good as it's gonna get. And I think there are some really good songs on there. I understand that it's a little. Not formulaic and maybe not what you want. And then that song came out, and it actually tied for number one with a Nine Inch Nails song. So I kind of had the last laugh. But they were so mad. I don't understand that. We didn't want to shelve it. We were like, we want to get this out in time for summer tour. We think it's a good album. I don't know. Maybe they were right that the record as a whole could have been stronger. But there's. There's some cool songs on there. Yeah.

[Host]

100% the state of music by 2005. Now that you're living through the Napster fiasco, Torrance, how. How hard does that hit 311? Is that some. Is that something that you and your peers in the industry are all worried about and talking about?

[Nick Hexum]

I think the sketchy time was a little. Yeah. 0607, I was definitely downloading stuff.

[Host]

By 2000, 2005, I was online.

[Nick Hexum]

I mean, the problem was they had overcharged so much for music. Like, when you're charging $18 for a CD and then a kid's like, or I can just have a 50 cent blank CD and download these songs. Like, you know, I think people that didn't usually steal were like, it's too expensive. I'm. I'm just gonna.

[Host]

I need my music.

[Nick Hexum]

I need my music. And the. And. And also, you know, thinking, well, these guys are rock stars. You know, they're. They don't need the money. I need this. You know, So I. Which I. Which I understood. And like I said, we had more just focused on the Touring world more. Anyway, and then. Yeah, and then we. We made Uplifter with. With Bob Rock. And that was just like a really cool learning experience from.

[Host]

And had you heard St. Anger when you hired Bob Rock for Uplifter or seen Some Kind of Monster?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, definitely saw Some kind of Monster and was. And had been into Metallica, black albums.

[Host]

So you as an. As an artist and as somebody who worked with Bob Rock or was about to work with Bob Rock, how did Some Kind of Monster resonate with you?

[Bo]

Oh, we've never been able to ask that before.

[Host]

It is like one of the most egoless pieces of art ever made, I would say.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. No, I mean, it was really revealing to. For them to. It was pretty triggering for me to see the tension in those band meetings, and for them to put that all out there was pretty damn courageous. And then Bob would share a lot of the sort of psychological tools that he learned. If I would say, that's kind of Boring part. He was like, that's a very triggering word for you to call somebody's work boring. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Wow.

[Nick Hexum]

Or if I would say, well, this part right here gets a little boring. He was like, let's try. Try a different word from that. And so he helped us with our interpersonal kind of thing.

[Host]

He learned a lot from. What's the therapist's name?

[Bo]

I forget his name.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, the guy from.

[Host]

That guy. Sweaters 40, 000amonth.

[Bo]

He plays. There's something that's crazy about that documentary. Obviously we won't talk about it that long, but, like, they had Hawaiian Shirt Day in the studio. Never mentioned in the documentary. So you'll have these fights and they're all just wearing Hawaiian gear. No reason. And it's just never once mentioned. That's kind of the craziest part.

[Host]

Did you guys have Hawaiian Shirt Day on Uplifter?

[Nick Hexum]

No, that came up over the past decade on Fridays on tour.

[Host]

Oh, really good Hawaiian shirts. There's a song on Universal Pulse called Sunset in July.

[Bo]

He can't believe this.

[Host]

I cannot believe this song. And to me. So you mentioned Morrissey earlier. Why don't you find out for yourself? Saints are mad. Sunset in July. Was that subconscious or is that conscious? Are you just discovering this now?

[Nick Hexum]

No, I can acknowledge what he's saying. And, yeah, he's just got away with melodies.

[Host]

He's unfortunately the greatest of all time, you know?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, unfortunately.

[Host]

Yes, it is what it is. We just talked about it. Maybe not the best guy, maybe the worst guy. No less than 1,000 bangers yeah. So these records with Bob Rock, he is not a sit back and engineer type producer. Right. So did you enjoy that process?

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, like it was. He was a sixth band member. Like we all had our little stations and he had his station with his pedals and his amp and his guitar and he would be in there with us and we, we definitely welcomed it. And he brought so much gear with him, like these weird pedals and had Tim, you know, getting into the whammy pedal, which, you know, like Tom Morello and some others have used and Tim used on that album. And then we would have keyboard days where we would. He and I spent like three days at the end of the album. We would just go through each song and just add some pads or a shaker or some different Boeing. Pardon me.

[Host]

Boing.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, Boings.

[Bo]

Well, that was the God of boings.

[Host]

Yeah, we're going analog. Boing. Now we got Bob Rock on the. On the helm.

[Bo]

It's true. Was this song pre written before you started working with Bob Rock?

[Nick Hexum]

Which one?

[Host]

Sunset in July.

[Nick Hexum]

Sunset? Well, you know, no, because we. Uplifter was our first record with Bob Rock and then Universal Pulse was our second and that was on there. So. Yeah, it was. We had already worked with him and. But then I.

[Bo]

What I'm wondering is if that. That big G was Bob Rock's C, right? You know, his, his chord progression sensibility or if it was something you had already had.

[Nick Hexum]

I don't remember.

[Bo]

Cuz this guy, he can't believe a G major.

[Host]

I love a G major, but I think that was a C. No, no.

[Nick Hexum]

All right.

[Host]

Well, no.

[Bo]

Is it G? Is it G? G?

[Host]

Stereolithic and mosaic.

[Nick Hexum]

I mean, the song's in F. Well,

[Host]

Stereolithic and mosaic. Walk me through them. This is, this is where all the Hive. The Hive has been ground zero since 2000. Well, that's a crazy sense. The Hive has not been ground 0 since 2001. The Hive has been the home of the recording since 2001. Now how does. How does the process change here? Bob's out of the picture here.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And then we're back with Scotch, who did Transistor and has been our live sound guy for a long time.

[Bo]

That's cool.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. Wow. And we met him on our very first LA recording experience when we as being Eddie Offered's assistant. So he's like, you know, our same age. We've known him for 35 years. And you know, I think that Universal Pulse is only eight songs. And then we kind of started to. There was a little Bit of lack of cohesion as far as like where we should be going. So after that we. We kind of took a bit of a break and then we got back into like whatever. Like the. The attitude that we had on Transistor, which was like just. Just throw and go and see what happens. And so I think there's a bit of a. An attitude similarity between transistor and. And stereolithic. Interesting because getting more into the weirdness and. And then following that up with Mosaic where then I felt like that was kind of like our sound system period, where we're starting to get a little bit more momentum and break. Have some breakthroughs of doing these kind of epic songs that were like long songs. We're getting into like the classical. Having some classical chord changes in there. And I started working with it a couple different guitar teachers and really filling in my knowledge of technique and scales and modes and how Bach made his chord changes and stuff like that. So I don't know, that's some stuff that come to mind. But I'm jumping ahead, keeping Grow.

[Host]

We're just growing and growing and growing. That's what it's all about. Voyager, you would put out and then Covid happened.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Host]

What. What was that experience like? And then how did you use that time off?

[Bo]

We're sitting.

[Host]

Yeah, I guess we are.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. Built a studio and the, you know, we really like, we. We have a fairly busy touring schedule. But then like. So now what are we going to do? So I have to give real props to our. Our road crew is because they figure out how to do live streaming. And then we had Live from the Hive sessions and we did a 3:11 mark 3:11 day show where we played Transistor in its entirety on. On March 11th. And then like once a month stream different albums. So as a way to stay connected to our fans and let our, you know, the fans have their own party in front of the couch.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

Dancing around.

[Host]

People needed it.

[Bo]

Very, very resourceful as a band that Doomsday prepped for streaming. Ironically, Doomsday puts you in a position where it's like, oh, we can't play.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, all right, we'll figure it out.

[Bo]

Yeah, technology. Because if that happened in the 90s,

[Host]

I guess, yeah, records will be good.

[Bo]

Just can't win.

[Host]

So in with. In hardcore and punk, after Covid there was this enormous boom and like we're still seeing it to an extent. Like Turnstile just won two Grammys, you know. Was. Did you notice it the same in. In 311 world, was there a Big boom in sales and people like numbers out of lockdown.

[Bo]

I gotta see 311.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, well I. What I know is that there was pent up desire for touring but every band was doing it. So we had to like are the normal buses that we use were not available. So we were in like these broke down buses that had like. That was not working because there was such a crazy demand and like every roadie was busy and fortunately we've got a really loyal crew. But it was, it was different for a while and. But better. No, not better. There was still just a lot of tension over just in, in the air with the country with people upset about lockdowns and masks and different things like that.

[Host]

So still going, still the residual energy still flowing hatefully. Full Bloom would be your most recent record released by your own company, skp, which is very cool. I would love to talk about skp, explain that to the world. What you've done here.

[Nick Hexum]

So, so much of what a label used to do has changed. You got to think about the barrier to entry of when we first started a. You had to have a recording studio and then you. Most people, you'd hire a producer. There's tape, there's getting that duplicated and then physically getting those to stores and then there's brick and mortar stores. All that is completely different. Now you've got, you know, like Billie Eilish never set foot in a regular recording studio until she was already like, you know, everywhere. So the traditional what a label does has totally changed. And so having like a portal where you can get your distribution but then also to see the different metrics of what's working and what's not working and kind of self service your own music. It's just we saw an opportunity there and helping people become major label. SKPS escapee Escaping.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Host]

You just essayed all over. Unbelievable.

[Bo]

Wow, that's good.

[Nick Hexum]

God damn this guy. My wife came up with it.

[Bo]

Genius.

[Host]

She's good.

[Bo]

You should marry us.

[Host]

You should build her studio. Is there anything Nick, now however many Years you said, 36 years into 311, is there anything you feel you haven't achieved yet artistically that you would like to.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah, like I. I always find new things that make me curious. That's the best thing an artist can do is just follow their curiosity. Absolutely. Last year I was into very personal, kind of Americana and you know, did a side project. I do have this demo of a song that goes through a lot of different sections. Like I'm taking that whole journey with. Through different movements Thing kind of further. And that excites me. And I'm also kind of fascinated with jazz from the 40s of when, you know, there was jazz had, like, hit songs before rock and roll. There was. There was a kind of a. A glory era that I've been getting really into. And, you know, Chet Baker and Billie Holiday and Dinah Washington and Sarah Vaughn and stuff like that. That interests me right now. So. But then I also, at the same time, like energetic music to, like, when I exercise, I have different playlists for different activities. Like. Like a house tempo is good for jumping rope or being on the elliptical. And then I have like a 150bpm playlist that is good for when I'm running.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

So I've kind of been kicking around the idea of, like, what if I make music specifically for. Because people moving their body in rhythm, it releases oxytocin. That's why you get a high from a great concert. It's not just because the music is good. It's because of the shared energy field that's going with people. It's the same reason why they have at boot camp. You march is because of this, the bonding that you get. People feel a real high from rhythmic moving. Whether it's like, dance is the number one best thing that you can do to improve your. To fight depression. It's clinically proven to be better than any prescription medication or anything like that. So I know I'm, like, getting all over the place.

[Bo]

No, no, no. I see the vision. I see what you're saying.

[Host]

My next note here is you're so vascular and jacked. What is your physical? You just mentioned how important movement is for what you do, what you preach, everything. What's your physical regimen like at home and on tour?

[Nick Hexum]

So I just finished a really good book called Dopamine Nation, and she talks about how the avoidance of pain will cause you more pain. Like, you need to experience some discomfort because the homeostasis of the pain and pleasure thing. So what I try and do is start my day with hard things, which include a vigorous workout, both cardio and strength, and then maybe like a cold plunge, because, like, after that, I don't have any aches and pains. And then I feel, like, alive and ready to attack the day.

[Host]

Seven days a week?

[Nick Hexum]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Host]

How long?

[Bo]

What's the playlist for?

[Nick Hexum]

Not super long. So that's the thing is, like, people, you've. You got your goals and stuff you want to do during the day. And if you like, I've found ways that I can get it down to like 25, 30 minutes. And to get that. Okay, now I'm ready for my day. I'd get that done between 8:15 and 8:45, right after the kids leave for school.

[Bo]

What's the. Do you have, like, a good 65 bpm? Heavy weightlifting playlist?

[Host]

A lot of crowbar.

[Bo]

Crowbar in there.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. I definitely put on Pantera when I'm

[Host]

ready to like, another band that loves helmet.

[Nick Hexum]

True. Very true.

[Host]

Wow. The other thing that obviously very important that goes along with that is diet.

[Bo]

I was just gonna ask. Yeah, what's that?

[Host]

How do you. What diet needs to be done to be that vascular?

[Nick Hexum]

It's more about the frequency of revving my engine every day. I had, you know, I was known as the keto guy for a while that like.

[Bo]

Yeah, us too. Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

And then. But I.

[Bo]

2018, I wouldn't look at a carb straight up.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. No. I went for like a year without having sugar or bread. But I find I have more energy now when I eat full spectrum. And I was needing. I know they say you're supposed to get into, like, fat adapted and stuff and then have lots of energy, but it didn't really work for me. And I. I was vegan for a little while, but I was just eating so much, even though it was like, I couldn't get full. So now I'm kind of just back to just a traditional diet of a little bit of everything and try and stay away from the bad stuff. But it's more about frequently revving your engine.

[Bo]

Love it.

[Host]

Now, when do you partake in the bad stuff? Tell me, what do you like when

[Bo]

you get a bad brain? So it's good.

[Nick Hexum]

I love a five Guys burger with every last thing that they have on there. I make my own homemade pizza that is like this just combo with. And I make it like thin and crispy but piled with stuff, but like a really good crust to it, you know? And it's Girl Scout cookie season.

[Bo]

Oh, my God. Have you tried the Explore mores?

[Nick Hexum]

I just had them for the first time last night.

[Host]

Don't tell me what this is, dude.

[Bo]

It's like Rocky road in a cookie form. Yes. They are incredible.

[Host]

I need this revolution. I've been needing to explore less.

[Bo]

You can order them online, like from them, and they'll deliver it.

[Nick Hexum]

I actually tweet. I think it was on threads that I put a leak to my daughter's. If you need some, get them through my daughter's Girl Scout.

[Bo]

That's embezzlement. Man, how dare you?

[Nick Hexum]

It's for a good cause.

[Bo]

They do good.

[Nick Hexum]

They're cleaning up the beach and doing stuff like that.

[Bo]

Okay, but that. Those are incredible. I, I, I, I can't wait to go home and get some more.

[Host]

I need no further information on what they are. You just went five guys. Your instinct was five guys there.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. Which I like it better than in and out, really? Or Shake Shack?

[Host]

I mean, it's obviously.

[Bo]

I like Shake Shack.

[Host]

I like it too, but it's too modern.

[Bo]

Dude, it's very modern. It's like a club.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Host]

Come on, man.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

But wow, five guys over in and out.

[Bo]

Now, what about back in the day 311 in that. Are that roughing it to RV? Where are you guys stopping?

[Nick Hexum]

I mean, I would always make sure there was like, cereal to go with us on the.

[Host]

One of the fattest things in Ankony is a bolster.

[Bo]

It's crazy, but what about any fast food that, like, the band collectively was like, oh, they have that pull over. We gotta go.

[Nick Hexum]

I think it was just a little bit of everything. We were kind of early to get really, like, into good sushi. Like when I had dried sushi for the first time straight out of Omaha in 1988, and they showed me, like, and now you do the ginger between the bites and you mix the wasabi. Like, it was all so new. I was like, this is incredible.

[Bo]

It's the most exotic thing. Yeah, totally.

[Host]

It gets me every time to say, I'm fired up. I can't wait to eat some later.

[Bo]

Yeah, we're going to eat some.

[Host]

Which now we're gonna do.

[Nick Hexum]

Smash it.

[Bo]

I want that.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Bo]

I want that.

[Host]

We have one final question for you. The people have all been dying to know. I've been dying to know.

[Bo]

We've.

[Host]

We've dropped some Easter eggs throughout the episode, but we want to know your four favorite punk slash hardcore records of all time.

[Nick Hexum]

Well, I really do love fugazi. 13 songs with waiting Room on there. I would say that the. The Clash's London Calling was for me, like when the musicality and the. And the punk rock energy, you know, was just hit this, like apex.

[Bo]

There's a deep cut on there that I'll wake up with. Death or Glory. The chorus, I'll wake up with that in my head. And it. It's a week before it goes away.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Can't believe that song.

[Nick Hexum]

Yeah. And then either of those Bad Brains albums of Quickness or I against I were super important. I would say that that quickness Actually has better production because the. I don't know.

[Host]

There's a little Mackie from the Craw Mags on drums on that one, too.

[Nick Hexum]

That's right. That's right.

[Bo]

He's a quickness guy.

[Host]

I like them both.

[Bo]

I know, but. But I like doing this. He's more of a quickness. He hates.

[Host]

I can sign.

[Bo]

I'm more of an eye against eye guy.

[Nick Hexum]

Okay. I think.

[Host]

I guess I is better.

[Bo]

No, he loves quickness. He never shuts up.

[Host]

Okay, great answer. Great answer.

[Bo]

Good answer.

[Nick Hexum]

Okay, so that's three. And then fourth one is always the hardest. It is more of a deeper cut would be like the Descendants, like Milo Goes to College, Something from back then that, like, was like. This is, like, really cool. Like this. The songwriting, it's just. It's good songwriting, even, but it's. It's, like, super punk. And I don't know if that's great.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah, Absolutely.

[Host]

It's a common one.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Nick Hexum]

Is it?

[Bo]

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[Host]

Nick Hexum, we did it.

[Nick Hexum]

This is fantastic.

[Host]

What an incredible chat. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[Nick Hexum]

I told so many stories that I had never told before, never even thought of. Perfect.

[Bo]

All for 311 day.

[Host]

That's what we want. Happy 311 day to all. Happy 311 day to us for getting to share this beautiful experience. Nick, we cannot thank you enough.

[Nick Hexum]

This was fun.

[Host]

It really was. If you have any parting words to leave the people with, I'm sure they'd love to hear.

[Nick Hexum]

We love our fans. We're so grateful to get to do this for yet another year as we're about to turn 36.

[Host]

Many people don't get to be 36, you know, let alone many bands. Okay. So that's a beautiful thing. Thank you so much. Thank you all for watching. We love you so much. See you next week.

[Nick Hexum]

Bye.

[Host]

This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.