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Bo
I'll be here a while. You just sing a Bad Brains part.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
At the end of the song.
Nick Hexum
And this is from I and I Survive. I wanted to do an ad lib, and nobody's better at ad living than hr.
Bo
This is the connection that people might wonder.
Nick Hexum
I remember a guy on a message board saying, I hate that song. I'll be here while. Because he rips off Bad Brains. I was like, no, I was giving it props. Like, if you're a punk rocker, you knew where that came from. That's like your. It's an homage.
Host
Hello. Welcome. It's hard Lore time. How you doing, Bo?
Bo
I'm doing really good.
Host
Where are we? Deep in the valley, as we should be. As I always like to be. We're here for a very special reason, a very special occasion on a very special day. Well said as it is, March 11th or March 12th or wherever you're. Whenever you're watching this. We've got an unbelievable guest on this show today, everyone. We've got the highest grossing artist we've ever had on this show. It's a. A fact. Alternative rock pioneer, genuine household name. Founder and vocalist of one of the first bands that either of us were probably ever coherently aware of at all.
Bo
Yep.
Host
Founder and. Did I say founder of.
Bo
That's okay.
Host
Nick hexum of 311.
Nick Hexum
Hey. Happy 311 day.
Bo
Yeah. All right.
Host
Thank you. Thank you for spending it with us.
Bo
Yeah, we. We really appreciate it.
Host
What an honor.
Nick Hexum
Super cool.
Bo
How are you doing? Great. It's beautiful.
Nick Hexum
But we're not in the valley. We're in the Santa Monica. Santa Monica Mountains preserve. Just disappointing.
Host
I didn't want to dox you.
Nick Hexum
I'm always talking about Topanga.
Host
Okay. Topanga, to me, is an extension of the Valley. You know, what's the area?
Nick Hexum
It does go. The road goes through the valley, and they call it Topanga Mall, which is like, nowhere near actual Topanga, but whatever.
Host
And maybe it was named after the gal from Boy Meets World. Let's address the elephant on the beach here. That is what a shocking revelation it is. Every time somebody. Like I'm sure you experience all the time. Every time somebody finds out that 311 is from Omaha, it's probably like a. What do you mean? Type thing. And you've been getting it your whole life.
Bo
Would have said Long Beach.
Host
Let's.
Bo
Let's. No problem.
Host
Let's walk us back to young Nick in Omaha discovering music. How did that sound, that attitude, that style make its way to you?
Nick Hexum
Well, I liked the Beach Boys, this the, you know, the west coast surf culture type of thing. It fascinated me. And I was very lucky that me and my sister got to take a lot of trips with my grandparents all around the Caribbean, Hawaii. So I just love being at the beach and building sandcastles and it just kind of was. Drew me out there. And then hearing Bob Marley just elevated me to a different place in more ways than one elevation. And so we all came out here. You know, I came out here first in 88 when I was 17. And then after floundering around the Sunset Strip for a little bit, we're trying to find some guys to make a band with. I realized that my homies from Omaha were my best collaborators and Omahomies, if you will. Yeah. Went back to Omaha in 1990 and started 311. Then we all came out together in 92. But I have to say we're very proud of our Omaha roots.
Bo
We have both toured, We've played Omaha a lot, especially being from Chicago. That's some. That's kind of the first stop going west after maybe Quad Cities. And we have heard stories of like, oh yeah, when like 311 are around or if 311 crew. Crew, yeah, they come to the bar, it's like ah, like you know, lords of the city kind of thing. So I've. Once I discovered it, I never forgot it, but it was still shocking nonetheless when I did realize that you guys were true Midwestern familiar.
Host
Yeah, big time.
Nick Hexum
And Omaha was a great, like a lot of touring bands tell us like Omaha crowds, man, they, they just give you so much like they're not, they're not jaded. And we've had that where it's a little harder to get LA crowds whipped into a frenzy because they like see so many shows all the time and blah, blah, blah. But in, in Omaha they give you that energy. So we had that launching pad from the start. Like our first gig was opening for Fugazi, of all people. And just the place went buck wild.
Bo
He printed that out.
Host
Let's talk about it. Check it out. Walk me through it.
Nick Hexum
Okay. See where it says Fish Hippos. That was. So what happened was we were called Unity. Me and Tim and Chad had a band and then we got back to Omaha at different times. Like, Chad had been jamming with Peanut and they came up with the name Fish Hippos. And then he, I, you don't have
Host
to hold the fire.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, I called him and just to say what's up? And he was like, dude, we got a Gig opening for Fugazi. And I was like, that sounds awesome. He was like, why don't you come back and sing? And I said, okay, but can we change the name from Fish Hippos? And so then we, we talked about it and Peanut was like, well, I did a talent show under the name 311. And I was like, I love it. Just a number. And then he said, well, it's also the police code for indecent exposure.
Bo
Read that.
Nick Hexum
I was like, I still love it. Let's do that. But I really liked is kind of like that Gen X mystery of just like having a number and totally.
Host
Were you a Fugazi guy or a Minor Threat guy?
Nick Hexum
Oh, yeah.
Bo
Okay, we'll get there.
Host
Take me there. Let's take me there.
Bo
You want to go?
Host
Let's go back to Tell me that your roots in punk music, how'd you find it?
Nick Hexum
My buddy Joe Brady's older brother Mark had a great punk collection. And so this was. I heard the Clash from him and it just blew my mind.
Host
Those are your guys, right?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, that is like my, my number one and. But also like the, the OG punk from, you know, from England, but then also the next generation of LA punk and like you said, minor Threat and bad brains and. But I love heavy music too. Pass me. I. I have always just tried to be super eclectic and just follow the muse as we were talking about before, wherever it leads. But yeah, definitely punk was huge for me when I heard it was the Clash's first album, the self titled one that was a green album in America and a black album in England. And. And the first performance I ever did was a school talent show. And when we were called A tribute to the Clash and we did, we were slated to do two Clash songs, Police and Thieves, which was actually a cover. And then a song called Protex Blue, which I found out later was about condoms. And then we basically kind of had a mutiny that we had our friends start chanting encore, encore. And then we ripped into Should I Stay or Should I Go? Oh yeah. And gotta give the people what they want, you know. And then the music teacher ran out and unplugged our amps so all you could hear was the drums.
Host
But that's best case scenario for Proto Punk guys, you know, you did it. You started the revolution.
Nick Hexum
That's right.
Host
Amazing. So aside from the Clash and early punk, I had also read that some big first steps for you were Margaritaville, first song on guitar and Rapper's Delight. And I think when you combine those three ideas it's like, there. There's 3:11. Wow.
Bo
Yeah, no kidding.
Host
Kind of crazy.
Nick Hexum
Oh, and the entertainer, of course, obviously. Little ragtime piano. You gotta know my piano here, though, I. I don't play much piano. My. My oldest daughter, Echo, is incredible at piano, but, yeah, I just like to be all over the place. But after the Clash, then maybe the Chili Peppers, Jane's Addiction, Fishbone, which, you know, those were happening in la, so that was, like, a big draw to come out and, like, go to Club Scream and see Jane's Addiction and meet the Chili Peppers at their show in the Palace. And it was. It was very exciting time, like, to have, like, funk combined with punk rock energy.
Host
Grew up punk listening to funk.
Nick Hexum
There you go.
Host
I gotcha. I'm with you. He knows his I'm with you.
Bo
So the name was changed. Indecent Exposure was the police code in Omaha for it. Were you aware of the rumor of what 311 stood for?
Nick Hexum
Of course you were. No, please tell me.
Bo
Oh, really? Of course. Of course you were. For the.
Nick Hexum
Anyone watching?
Host
Which one?
Bo
Yeah, right. The k is the 11th letter in the Alphabet. And the thought was like, oh, they're like. But it's the same thing.
Nick Hexum
Three K's.
Bo
Yeah.
Nick Hexum
We have nothing. We were the opposite of the K.4K, but. And there was my friend's band called the 88. They ran into the same thing because HH.
Bo
Of course.
Nick Hexum
And, yeah, it was. It's hard to believe when such a ridiculous rumor comes up, but there's something about something so salacious and controversial that makes people believe it the first time they hear it. So it's actually an interesting sociological thing. It really is that people wouldn't. That some people would believe it before really even looking into it. And that the craziest part is that our high school, Me and Tim and Chad went to west side High in Omaha, and they actually banned 311 shirts because they believed it.
Host
Oh, my God.
Bo
Oh, my God.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And. And my brother was at that high school at the time, and he was like, I'm not taking my shirt off, because this is bullshit.
Bo
Yeah. And.
Nick Hexum
And then the. The story actually made it into Rolling Stone. And that was our, like, our first kind of mention of getting really, like, into the. The conversation in that context.
Host
Awesome.
Bo
Yeah. Great. Yeah.
Nick Hexum
Right. But I guess, you know, they say all press is good press, but. Yeah.
Host
So let's go back a little bit. So tell me about the ED's, because that was how some of you first met each other, right?
Nick Hexum
Yeah. So me and. And Tim had a band called, called the Eds because our drummer was named Ed and he was just a real character. And so we called ourselves the Eds.
Bo
Just one of them though.
Nick Hexum
And we were playing the. The alternative of the time was. Was college rock. It was like REM and the Smiths and the Cure and kind of this like jangle rock. But we, we did it with a little bit more energy, a little bit more, some punk in there. And then we started doing originals and we were like winning these battle of the bands and you know, we. So from the success of that in high school, I was like, this is doable, you know, if you're able to get a crowd going, that is, that's the most important thing. And I've. I've often said it in a very dated way that like some of the best. I've said this forever. Some of the best musicians in the world are playing at a bar at the Holiday Inn, you know what I mean? And it's now they don't, they don't have music at Holiday Inns anymore. But when I started out they probably did. So that's where that expression has been around.
Host
I mean that's the best chess players are on the street on Hollywood and Highland ever, you know. Yeah, can't beat those guys.
Nick Hexum
So. But the differentiation of being able to work a crowd into really losing their inhibitions. It's like whether it's a metal show or a punk show or a hip hop show, people moving their bodies together is a. Is a continuation of the tribal dance that has been integral to the human experience for about 50,000 years. You know what I mean? Like they say drums have gone back maybe a hundred thousand years and melodic instruments started coming in about 50 and singing. So it's just, it's like a very important thing. When I talk to people, people who ask me for advice, I'm like, show your instruments some love every day, but take every gig and work on getting people to lose their inhibitions and move their bodies.
Bo
We say this all the time. Coming from a more punk and hardcore world, we get asked all the time, how do we tour, how do we start this? And it's just, you gotta show up, you just gotta go start your thing,
Host
play it another way and open and
Nick Hexum
lead by example to lose your inhibitions. Because nobody. Like, if you're just standing there, like that was always the thing. We would just. We probably were pretty sloppy in the early days, but we would just go
Host
off and going off playing isn't performing, you know, right eventually you're performing.
Bo
No one, no one wants to go to a show and see the record, exactly how it's performed, how it's recorded. They want to see something. How was Fugazi at that show?
Nick Hexum
Super nice. I mean like they're so diy. First of all, you were not. They never charged more than five dollars for a show. The five dollar tickets. What. That was literally the price. It's probably on the flyers. They didn't have merch because they didn't believe in it for some reason. So then people started making it. This is not a Fugazi T shirt. Trade shirt.
Bo
Yeah, good.
Host
Which there are beliefs that they made those, but we'll have to confirm or deny with Mr. Ian at some point.
Nick Hexum
But the thing was they were super nice because they just called ahead like a local punker in Omaha and said, can you get some local bands to open for us? And Peanut somehow got wind of it and got us that gig. So it was super diy. We were huge partiers at the time. So we were sitting there drinking 40 ouncers and I didn't realize until after that that was a pretty big faux pas to be like loudly drinking at a Fugazi show. Because they're straight edge. But they didn't say anything.
Host
Who knows? I don't know that they were still straight edge by that time, you know.
Bo
I understand though.
Host
Yeah. That's kind of you to even think
Bo
that, you know, being coming from two straight edge guys ourselves. We understand. But I don't think, I don't think any of them would have really cared. So I think you were fine.
Nick Hexum
They were super gracious and complimentary and it was awesome. And now I would be right at home with that situation. But it was, you know, we were, we were pretty hard partiers back then. That's awesome.
Bo
Was it a lot, A lot of people?
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
It always blows my mind how that band operated that way and was able to draw.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, it's crazy.
Host
So you go to LA by yourself, you're seeing Jane's Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers, you go home, reunite with the boys, 311 is formally born. What's next? The, the Dammit record is that. That's first.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. So I, I took a, A, a student loan to fund our first record, which was probably illegal.
Host
FAFSA records.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And we, we made a cassette out of that and started selling at the shows. And then our second record and I called the label. I was basically like the one employee of the label. It was called what have you Records which is part of that what have you means like, whatever. It's just that Gen X kind of humor. Then we made a CD, which was like a huge deal in 1991 to actually get a CD, because there was no CD burners or anything. So it was like, we've got a cd and that was called Unity.
Host
And you still play some of these songs.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, a lot of those songs kind of got revamped to make it onto our major label debut, which was music. And then we made another tape, which was more of an EP called Hydroponic. And then, like, we just. We played these new music Mondays at the Ranch bowl, which was all ages shows, and we sold it out. I mean, it would be just crazy. Moshing stage, diving clothes off, like just a wild, wild scene. And. And then we were selling lots of tapes and CDs to the extent that Homer's Records was the. Like, the main cool record store downtown. And the guy told us, like, you're our number one selling album right now. I was like, do you mean like, local? He's like, no, it's ahead of you two and Madonna and Michael Jackson, which were, you know, big in 91. And so I was able to take that and send it to some labels. And I did a lot of bullshitting, a lot of like, you know, you
Bo
fluff the numbers a little bit.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. Or be like. I'd read a name in Rolling Stone, like, this guy loved it. Yeah. So. And so from Capitol Record, I'm in talks with Doug Morris at Capitol. Like, just complete bullshit, but you know what I mean, it was kind of Machiavellian. Like, I just kind of felt like I knew we had something good to offer and so started getting some. A tiny bit of label interest. But then we're like, we got. We got to go out to la and. And I don't know if it was necessary. The truth is, is that we flew. They. Once we got a label interested, they wanted to see us live. And I like, well, you need to see us in front of the Omaha crowd. Because we hadn't had a big, you know, following and no following in LA at that time. So we flew back to do like, a showcase. And they were like, this is the real deal. And so we got signed to Capricorn Records. Part of that was Eddie offered, the legendary Prague rock producer who had done, like, Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Yes and yes. And he had worked with John Lennon. And so he was just like this classic English studio guy. Kind of a gentleman, kind of a wild man. Part like Ozzy Osbourne and part like this mad scientist. And so he kind of took us under his wing. And part of the. The deal was like, well, if Eddie produces your. Your album, then, like, all systems go. Let's. Let's go. And so we.
Host
Did he have much influence on, like, the time signatures and more progressive things you were doing?
Nick Hexum
I mean, I think he helped. I know. Remember that. He helped me see where I was rushing because a lot of, like, punk rock energy is pushing the beat. And he was like, you're ahead, you're ahead, you're ahead. Like, slow down and, like, listen to the drummer. And so there was some things about performance, but a lot of it was he was just a. A very, like, a big engineer. Like, he would brought in all this gear with effects and. And he actually really taught Chad especially. Especially about miking and eqing and compression and. And so we just like. It was like a crash course. Perfect. And. Yeah. And then. Then music came out and we went on the road, and then our RV burned up.
Bo
Yeah.
Nick Hexum
Feel free to ask me to elaborate on it.
Host
Yeah, but. But the whole band. You said the whole band moved to la. The whole band specifically moved to Van Nuys, right?
Nick Hexum
Yes.
Host
What? Do you remember the Cross Streets?
Nick Hexum
It was Bessemer. It was basically Sunny Slope in Bessemer. It was, like, near Woodman and kind of near the college there.
Host
Valley College.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Host
Yeah, I voted there. Wow. Okay, so the whole band's in Van Nuys.
Nick Hexum
Yes.
Host
Respect music. Let's talk about music. Do you consider, Damn it. And Unity like, super canon to the 311 discography? They're not on streaming really, Right.
Nick Hexum
No. So what we did is it's not on streaming, but we did make a CD called Omaha Sessions, which was kind of like the best of the. Those first three independent albums.
Bo
I see.
Nick Hexum
So. But kind of need to be put on Streaming.
Bo
Can't hurt.
Host
Hey, 311 is just around the corner.
Bo
Pardon me. Oh, beautiful.
Nick Hexum
It's the Elevation.
Bo
So music is probably most people's first exposure, I would say, to 3:11.
Host
Right.
Nick Hexum
Well, the thing is, is that. Because we did the weird thing of naming our third album 311, people assumed. And that was the record that really blew up with. With Down. So only a lot of people's like, your. Your first album is amazing. I'm like, do you mean. They're like, you know, the blue one, 3:11. No, that's actually our third album. You mean go. But we were building up a pretty good grassroots following, and that was the. That's why we named the second album that because it was like, that was all about our philosophy. Like, we knew that what we were doing with the rap, rock and the reggae, and there was no radio format that was. Would even consider that at the time.
Host
But do youo Right did get some MTV airplay for the first time.
Nick Hexum
Like, on the show. 120 minutes. Like, it. It played like twice.
Host
Okay. It wasn't like a.
Nick Hexum
And it got some airplay on. On K Rock. And I remember we were sitting by the. The little pool in our little house in. In Van Nuys. And it came on. On kroc. And they were like, believe it or not, this band is from Nebraska. We need to move to Nebraska. This is how music. So it was. It was like this really cool.
Host
That's awesome.
Bo
Interesting. The big radio station in Chicago for alternative stuff was Q101, which was a Kroc, you know, satellite station or whatever. 311 was inescapable in my memory of my childhood. I was born in 87, so especially by mid-90s, that was inescapable. Especially. Especially these first three. First three records from Music Onward.
Host
As of 1992, when SA joined the band. Spooky Apparition.
Bo
Right?
Nick Hexum
He's had a few. At one point, he was like, I'm Scribe. Annihilator.
Bo
Whoa.
Nick Hexum
Is that your favorite apparition? But the. The truth was, is that when I had moved out here and I worked and I was a waiter, and in the kitchens, they were all the. The cooks were all saying, what's up, SA? And so. And being that he's Hispanic, I was like, what's up, Sa? And wow. Just stuck.
Host
Wow.
Bo
Fascinating.
Host
That's some hard lore.
Bo
Yeah. When did you guys. You two specifically.
Nick Hexum
And SA just means man.
Host
Yeah.
Bo
When did you two figure. A lot of bands. Alice in Chains, who's another harmony type band.
Host
Kenny and Kenny and Pete, Kenny and
Bo
Peter from Typo, have a specific type of harmony, like a specific relative. I don't know what it is on the piano. When did you guys figure out that you could have. That you had this harmony that became so, like, a signature style?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, I mean, I. I have more of a baritone range. I like. I always like to sing along with, like, Jim Morrison or Sinatra, you know, like, lower vocals. And so I knew I, like, I needed somebody to sing a little higher. And. And then Essay had just first, like. I think he was doing guest spots with us from our very first gig. Like, we. Right about now, we'd like to bring out Essay to come out.
Host
Oh, he was already. SA yeah.
Bo
Wow.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And and then as time went on, we have had him start singing. Singing harmonies. And it just kind of evolved that, you know, like I said, Beach Boys. I've always loved harmonies. The Beatles, like, so it's just like the third above. Yeah. That just. But sometimes we'll, like, cross, like. And do you. Right there's like. We'll actually cross. Like, I'll go a little higher and you go lower just to create that interesting thing of that. You're used to it staying in parallel, but then when it crosses, it. Sounds cool.
Bo
So early on, you knew you had that in the repertoire.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, it's great. Tim and Chad are both good, good singers too, but they're too focused on their playing. So just two dedicated vocalists just worked out.
Host
You've been the same unit of people since 1992, which. That doesn't happen.
Bo
Damn near impossible.
Host
What is the dynamic, like, within 3:11 today?
Bo
What's the secret?
Host
Yeah, yeah. Please get off me. Don't touch me.
Nick Hexum
A lot of touching. No, I think that you have to be ready to not get your way to be flexible to respect democracy. You know, you might have to be go down to Rock, paper, scissors, but most of the time, it never even comes to a vote. That's a kind of a bit of a. A failure of discussion when you can't just talk it out.
Bo
I agree.
Nick Hexum
And I think for me, it's about not putting unnecessary skin in the game. If it's, like, not something I'm passionate about, just like, yeah, whatever you guys want to do is cool. And there's certain things that are important to me that, like if it's a song that is a little weird, but I really love it, then the guys will. Okay, obviously Nick really wants to do this.
Host
And is there one that comes to mind that you were like, please, guys, just trust me. I'm going to fight for this. And then ended up being a banger.
Nick Hexum
Well, I mean, I really like when. When I wrote Amber, it was just like, oh, yeah, I got this song too, but I don't know if it's right for us. And. And then our producer, Ron St. Germain was like, bro, the hook. He usually. The hook. The hook you got to put out Amber. And I was like, well, I kind of like it, but it was very out of step with everything we had done up to that point. It's much like softer and mellower. So when there was a song on Mosaic called Places that the Mind Goes that I was like, I really love this song. Can we please do it? And everyone was Cool. But I think that I like the Morrissey lyric. Fame, fame, fatal fame. It can play hideous tricks on the brain. But then he goes on to say, but still, I'd rather be famous than righteous or holy any day. But it just. The tricks on the brain. The tricks on the brain, like it. It can mess. A lot of artists will think that maybe that they're the reason you have to value your collaborators and really know that you're better together than you could be separately. And I mean, I just honestly believe that we stumbled onto something really special and that it was. It wasn't like a studio creation of any, like, producer. Like, here you and this guy get together. It was just very natural. Through friendship. Or it's just like friendship first and then the fun of making music, and then it turns into a business. But the friendship supersedes. Needs to be at the core of it.
Bo
And of course, where we are in this timeline, too. Just the fun and thrill of success and like, hey, this is working like we're doing it.
Nick Hexum
I'm sure.
Bo
And then also all the hard times that are going to come with that too. Be what it is. Like your RV burning up before this all happened. Those are bonding moments that kind of cauterize everything and. And will make those relationships. Because it's like, hey, man, at least our RV isn't burning. Yeah, you know, you can always kind of fall back to that memory, so.
Nick Hexum
No, it's true. Like, after all our stuff burned up, I remember seeing the guys. All we need is the songs in our head and each other, and none of this stuff really matters. And we borrowed equipment and played a gig the very next night.
Bo
That's what I'm talking about.
Nick Hexum
Even though my hair was burned up, like, I literally jumped flames to. To escape with my life. Like, it was this sheet of flames. And I was like, there was only one door. So I jumped through it. And then I put my hand in my head. It was just ash and it just all broke. Fell all over the place.
Host
So the hair's looking great. Yeah. Hey, I made it. Fire be damned.
Nick Hexum
I had burns on my arm. Oh, my God. And then we were standing there in the burning hot Missouri sun in July with burns on us. But yeah, we just. We just kept. We borrowed equipment and just kept going.
Host
So there was no, like, the RV's. The band's done.
Nick Hexum
Not even for a second. I love it.
Bo
I love that.
Host
Love it.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Host
So here we go. 311 self titled breakthrough phenomenon. Over 3 million copies. Soldiers. Produced by a man named Ron Sarah Gemarane, as you brought up earlier, who was at some point the front of house guy at CBGB's and also the producer of Bad Brains, Eye against Eye and quickness.
Nick Hexum
Yep. Two very, very important albums. And he worked with Tool and Fishbone and Living Color. So it was this really important music to me. And. And he had been the house guy at Electric Ladyland. So he had a lot of stories, crazy stories about like, he was in the Broadway production of Hair, which he said was just like a. Basically like a big long orgy because it was all this like free love, like, you know, hippie vibes on stage and backstage. So he had a lot of really interesting stories and super high energy. Guy, like, always wore leather pants and was like jumping off the. Jumping around the control room of like, with excitement, so.
Host
Which is very affirming as the. The people making the music.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, yeah. And that's like. I think around that album is when I started dropping mention of being excitable because I didn't. I didn't like being. I didn't like the jadedness of, like, people like their. They're too cool. Like, I'm like, if you're. It's being honest and saying what you. What you like is very important. Because there was a bit of a thing in the 90s of people saying, like, everything sucks. And like, I'm like, that's. That's a you problem. You know what I mean? So Seattle mentioned you problem.
Host
Seattle.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And it was actually a very prosperous time. Like, there's no more Soviet Union and we're not going to get bombed. You know what I mean? Because I grew up in Omaha of them saying, like, well, because we're here by SAC Air Force base, if there's a nuclear war, don't worry, we'll be completely obliterated, so we won't have to deal. And I'm like, don't worry. But so the 90s, there was no, you know, it was a peaceful and prosperous time. So we were trying to be a bit of a antidote to sort of some of the downerism that was going on. But I believe in being fully saying every part of your experience. And if you're in pain, it's definitely good to put that in your music. But it also became something that people would kind of hide behind in a
Bo
way and just kind of feedback.
Nick Hexum
Feedback. Yeah.
Host
Yeah, sure. I gotcha.
Bo
I was. I was at Tower Records with my mom. Yeah, no, I was having a great time.
Host
Great day.
Bo
You reached me.
Host
Yeah, you got this was Were I against eye and quickness? Like, are those things you. You go, oh, he did these. Let's. Let's go with this guy.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. I was like, these are the best produced albums that I've heard, like, at the time. So can we please get him? And when he was like, excited to work with us, we're like, it was a match made in heaven. We had really, by that time, put in our 10,000 hours of gig after gig after gig. Like we on Grassroots. We moved out of our little Van Nuys house and lived on the road. We didn't have a home. We put. Had a little storage unit with our meager possessions. But mostly, you know, we just lived on the road and lived on the bus and would go out for. For months at a time. So that's when we really honed our chops. And then when we went to go make the.
Host
So you were very ready for.
Nick Hexum
We were so ready.
Host
And right. In terms of writing, it was that. How. How involved was Ron. How much was written before the session actually began.
Nick Hexum
So we've worked with some producers that are. Will really get it. Like with. With Bob Rock, he'll. He'll get a guitar and be like, okay, now what's this chord? All right, how about. How about try a different chord and. And maybe on the bridge, you. You do this lift here where you do go to the major two. Like Rolling Stones like to. You want to try that? And that's a different type of producer that we hadn't been used to before. Bob Rock was a very cool learning experience. The previous producers we had were a little more focused on engineering and just okay, but. But Ron was. He was like, here's how you're going to capture the energy. Get in a room and do it like you do at a gig. So the Blue Album was played live in the studio. Everybody played at the same time. And then we went back and overdubbed vocals and guitar solos. And we were also just starting to get really into the studio trickery with scratches and samples and you guys.
Bo
808.
Host
You got toys.
Bo
You got toys in there.
Host
There's a couple toys I'm excited to bring up later that I want to know about.
Bo
Was this digital or tape?
Nick Hexum
Tape.
Bo
Yeah.
Nick Hexum
We stayed. We. We stayed on tape longer than most. It was with Bob Rock on the uplifter album in 07 or something that we. He was like, you can get a good analog sound onto Pro Tools. And before that, we'd stayed on tape kind of longer than most bands.
Host
So we. We're of the belief that everything musically comes from somewhere. And I've always been so curious about, like, the heavy elements of 3:11. I saw you mention Helmet as an influence.
Bo
Oh, I can see that.
Host
Are there any other kind of, like, the stuff like, where is that coming from?
Nick Hexum
Yes, Helmet was. And also the riffs in, you know, the opening to Quickness. It's so badass. So that was something like the single note riffs that was. It was just really happening at the time. And. And other, like, kind of lesser known artists, like 247 Spies was doing it. And, you know, the Living Color, the Cult of Personalities riff, like riffers. Yeah, the single note riffs were very happening in the early 90s. And. And then we. We kind of did our own spin on it. And then on our first album, the song Hydroponic was like, let's. It was. It was Chad's writing that it was like, taking heaviness. Like, his background was more on the metal side with, like, Kiss. Kiss changed his life when he was a little kid. And so, like, those big, open, spacious riffs like that. And. And then, you know, we had some Grateful Dead influence from. From Tim and Peanut liked, like, you know, Iron Maiden and more of, like that traditional metal. And so it was the big harmonized
Bo
leads and one of the bass players, one of the best bass players in the middle ever. Steve Harris.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. Yeah.
Bo
Unreal.
Nick Hexum
We used to check in under assumed names. You can't do that anymore. And I think. I think Peanut used Steve Harris.
Bo
That's awesome.
Host
That's awesome.
Bo
That's great.
Host
So is this a kind of thing where you finish tracking this record, you listen to the master back for the first time, and you. You know what you've got?
Nick Hexum
Yeah. I felt like down was super exciting. Although the label at the time was pushing us more towards a song that had singing throughout, like, Don't Stay Home all mixed up, which did pretty well.
Bo
Which did pretty well. But Down.
Nick Hexum
So it went. It went Don't Stay Home first, which did a. Okay. Got on MTV a little bit.
Host
Yeah.
Nick Hexum
And then All Mixed up, did a little better. And then down, which was crazy.
Bo
Which was number one.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, yeah. And it was a buzz clip, which was a big deal on mtv. Buzz clip means this is the song that everyone's buzzing about, so. And they played it once an hour. Wow. So it was. Everything took off super fast at that time. And I remember people saying, like, now that you guys got this buzz clip, there's all these kids at your show. And I'm like, good. Yeah, there's there's something special about when you're that age, what a band can mean to you. You're not just the plasticity of your brain and so forth. You're. You'll never be affected like you are that you're into in your teen years.
Bo
There's something inherently punk rock about that attitude, too, because that.
Nick Hexum
It's not elitist.
Bo
No. And it's. It's a young person's thing.
Host
And I was that kid.
Bo
And we were all.
Host
Yeah, I will never forget the down video. And I will never Forget the first 150 Pokemon. And that's a fact.
Nick Hexum
That's true.
Host
So the down is the down video entering the stratosphere, kind of the I made it, we made it moment.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. There was a few I made it moments was going on David Letterman, like. Because I used to stay up, like, David Letterman used to be on really late after Johnny Carson and I. So I'd stay up late night. He was just, like, so sarcastic and snarky and stuff. He got softer as he went along. But. So I was a huge David Letterman fan. So.
Bo
Be on card. Yeah, you throw one if you want. Like, David.
Nick Hexum
Oh, right. And then you gotta make a breaking sound.
Bo
Yeah. Okay. Ready, Stephen? Thank you, Steven.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And then opening for Kiss, which was somewhat terrifying because they're, like, known to have some of the most. You know, we. We did get booed a little bit, but they said we got booed a lot less than some of the other bands that they had open at Madison's.
Host
Them and Slayer.
Bo
They have an army and a navy. You know what I mean? So it's tough. What are 311 heads?
Host
All right.
Bo
What are 3 11. 311 heads called.
Nick Hexum
We got excitables or the 311 nation.
Bo
311 nation's pretty good.
Host
It's good.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. Excitables. The Hive is kind of another that
Host
has a couple meanings for you guys, right?
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And then it became our studio, but it just came out of a. There was. In the. In like 94. There was some rap lyrics about this is the go for self era. And. And then after that, I was like, no, this is 95. We go for the hive. Like, we. And then it became a lyric in that song. It became the name of our studio. And I like it.
Host
I love it. Do you think the down video is the first music video that you remember?
Bo
Madonna. Madonna, for sure.
Host
Madonna was the first.
Bo
And then Down. Yeah.
Host
I was so young that.
Bo
That he's a little younger than me. I'm 38. He's a bit younger.
Host
The lyric hearing you say or essay says, a dream of juice. I was young enough where that meant something to me because, you know, we were like, me too, man.
Bo
He gets.
Host
I can't wait to have my juice in the morning.
Nick Hexum
There we go.
Host
Turn it up.
Bo
Juicy Juice, you know?
Host
Yeah.
Bo
This was a big. I. I remember thinking you were the same guy when I was young. It was the same person singing both parts, you know, Big moment for the spooky apparition.
Nick Hexum
This is.
Host
Oh, he's pretty. He's the diverse.
Bo
Pretty crazy.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, yeah. I mean, his. He's a better rapper, so, like, giving him the verses in. In down and like, I just. But I knew that hook that. Yeah, the. The chorus was like super strong and a lot. And the. The riffs, which I. I do have to credit, like a Helmet influence.
Bo
You can. With the harmonic thing. Absolutely.
Nick Hexum
Wow. And there's some Soundgarden influence in there, you know, but with Chad's beats, with more of a hip hop sensibility, it created something.
Bo
And the tightest piccolo snare.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, yeah. I. I actually. I was like, he's kind of lowered it. I was like, yeah, cranking back up a little bit like the old days.
Host
Yeah, it's in the tiny desk. I feel like he cranked that sucker. Are you still keeping track of, like, other than Helmet and, you know, Bad Brains? Are you. Are you keeping track of, like, contemporary punk and hardcore at this time during that era?
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Host
Mid-90s.
Nick Hexum
Well, we went on the Warp tour, so getting to see, you know, H2O and blink before Travis.
Bo
Yeah. Really?
Nick Hexum
Pennywise, no effects.
Host
You're a big no effects guy, right?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, yeah, that. Like, the way they had a higher music, like the harmonies on Punk and Drublic was like, okay, this is.
Host
They came original right here. You know, what are you going to do?
Nick Hexum
They sure did.
Bo
I thought you were asking me. And I was like, yeah, yeah.
Host
Like, does hate breed come across your desk at some point? You're like, yeah, this is hard.
Nick Hexum
No, I had too far. Yeah, I mean, I probably like it. I think you would just. Certain things just get lobbed over my fence. I love Lamb of God. That's like five, baby. Workout 5B.
Host
That's right. Pardon this interruption. We hate to get you all mixed up while listening to this incredible episode, but we gotta tell you about one quick thing.
Bo
Who do we got? Colin.
Host
This episode is brought to you by Braindead. It is safe to say there is no brand more directly aligned with both the identity of this show and that comes original more than brain dead.
Bo
That's right. We've done multiple live events there. We did the green room interview and commentary stuff there. They're always involved directly with fests and shows and screenings and Sound and Fury and all the things that we all love.
Host
Not only do they make some of our favorite denim and apparel, but they do incredible collabs with the likes of Morbid Angel, Godzilla, Brody King and even Cannibal Corpse, which you can pick up right now@wearebraindead.com Like Bo said, we've been doing our annual Sound and Fury live pre show there for three years now and we're working on the next one as we speak. So go to studios.wearebraindead.com check out the calendar, see what's playing this month. Whenever you're watching this. At the end of this month, on March 29, there is a special free screening of the Fly with exclusive merch. It's first come, first serve, so it's bound to be a beautiful disaster and you know, maybe we'll see you there. Back to the episode. So touring on the self titled your world changes now.
Bo
Yeah.
Host
The RVs are no more certainly it's bus time. Like going when does 311 go to Europe for the first time? What's that like?
Nick Hexum
Oh yeah, we played, I think we played Glastonbury.
Host
Big one.
Bo
Yeah.
Nick Hexum
On maybe it was 94. So on the grassroots tour. Wow. Yeah. But they were not ready for us. It was not. It didn't.
Host
A year later though, they were tied eyed out dancing.
Nick Hexum
But I don't know, I honestly, I have a bit of regret that we didn't spend enough time overseas, you know, connecting with those people. We, we became a little bit spoiled by how good things were in the States. So.
Host
Sure.
Nick Hexum
But we've been putting in, you know, we went to Europe last year and we just got back from South America and Central America.
Bo
I bet that was lit.
Nick Hexum
It was insane. Like the, the crowds were. It was, it was like a truly 90s vibe of like the energy that was coming back.
Bo
I love that.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
Makes me really happy to hear you really do.
Host
Got to come to Brazil.
Bo
It also I want you to know as, as people who have toured Europe many times and struggled in Europe many times, it makes me feel good to know that 311, the 311 did two. You know that it was like. Yeah, they weren't really ready for us.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
Okay.
Nick Hexum
We. And, and I remember as we were hitting, really hitting our, our kind of second wind around Amber we still were on Sony at the time and our manager played the video for Amber to a. In a meeting of the label in Europe and they were like, it's very California.
Host
Like I do not get it.
Bo
I cannot relate to this.
Host
It's quite laid back. Yeah, I can see that. So now you have the impossible task of following up this massive success and you do that by Putting out a 21 song, 68 minute would be double LP transistor. What happened there? Great, like bold, awesome decision, but an interesting one.
Nick Hexum
And I. Whenever we talk about Transistor, I kind of want to remind people that there was. There was a significant bash, lack backlash of people saying 311 sucks now because we weren't doing the. An album full of riff rock like they were used to on the Blue album. So it was. The label was definitely disappointed by how Transistor was received and it was a pretty big. We just felt like we don't want to just keep repeating our. You know, we. We want to make sure that we're challenging ourselves and our fans to make sure we're putting creativity first. And there was a lot of new influences coming in of like dub reggae and trip hop from England and dance hall reggae and like just kind of all over the place. And you know, Tim with his, you know, jam band cool licks and stuff like that. So we where the Blue album was like, let's just make a killer album. That's for that. Every song is going to be great live Energy, energy. And this album was like we're not. Let's not even worry about how it's going to be live. Let's just like go with the trippiness, the psychedelia, the you know, studio filigree and just it's.
Bo
It's title almost, you know, like it makes sense. And then we're gonna. Okay. You know.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
But that being said, beautiful disaster.
Host
Yeah. What's that?
Bo
I better be disappointed about that is Sony. I'm losing my mind on the way here. Listen to that song.
Host
And that was first song written for the album.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And I'd been listening to a lot of no Effects punk and Drublic. Yeah. So it really. And then we'd also been touring with the urge from St. Louis and they would have these really cool intros, these horn like three part horn intros. And I was like, we could do that on guitar. And then it came out, you know, that sort of like Thin Lizzy like harmonizing guitar thing that was like influenced by that kind of like ska bands that had these like Horn intros and stuff like that.
Bo
I love that you did that instead of bringing in horn. So cool.
Host
And as the only credited writer on this song. Does that feel good? You proud? Particularly proud of this one.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. My mom loves the song Beautiful Disaster. It really.
Host
Look at us.
Nick Hexum
It just. It really paints a picture, I guess. And then because I didn't want it to just be like, negative, like, I can't care. I do. I don't. Whatever. Like, I don't, you know, that you're. You're torn of like somebody that, you know, that is not like, really good for you. But, you know, you're attracted to the carefree attitude and, you know, it's beautiful, you know.
Bo
And I have a couple questions about this. The very first note that's palm muted on this song, there's an undertone. And I noticed you do it live too, because you intro the song live, right? Like, you start the song off.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
And it's like. And then it goes. Single string. What is that?
Nick Hexum
So I wanted to have some feedback. So I actually had a. I split the signal and had an extra rack mount amp that had a Rocktron one, a one 12 inch in a cabinet that I would point at the guitar to make it feedback. That would just make the give. Give the riffs more energy. So. And I would just hit the guitar. And then also during the sort of the vamp, that kind of outro that happened after the chorus going. Yeah. And then if you. When you have a speaker pointed at the guitar at the time, it makes those harmonics really, really ring out.
Host
That first note.
Bo
I'm talking about the actual first note. It sounds like you're barring two and two, let's say. Because. Is it two? Oh, yeah.
Nick Hexum
It was a little sloppy.
Bo
That's all that you do it live, which I. Which I like. I appreciate you're doing the thing.
Nick Hexum
You know what I mean? Yeah. I try and just have the same approach because I like.
Bo
I love that you also do a thing in this. And I would kind of want to find the first time a band did this, you do what we call. There's a band called Marauder that we love. They do the marauder chord. But there's. It's like when you would play a power chord on the. On the A.
Host
The fully barred power.
Bo
But then you. You also match the root to the E string and you go. You do that big fat bar chord.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. So that we knew that lower frequencies made it more heavy. So what A lot of people don't know that the octave or Pedal is all over all those albums and we still. It's still a big part of what we do today. But we didn't really want to be like another seven string guitar band. So we would do a lot of inversions that made it so, you know, when if you're playing like a C chord, you're also playing the G below it to give it that real dense kind of inverted fifth that made it heavy. And to us without having. Was still just all standard tuning.
Host
Just E standard. Yeah, sometimes it sounds like G sharp, you know.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. It was just by finding those overtones of the inversions crazy.
Bo
And. And lastly, you play the second guitar in this, like with the. The lead part and the intro part. Had you done that prior or was this kind of your first like. Well, for this song I need to play the guitar to the duel.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, that. I think that was the first dual lead thing. And growing up in Omaha, we heard so many bands do that kind of thing and like Kansas and you know, all these like classic rock kind of bands that had a lot of like the dual lead kind of thing, but nobody else was doing it. An alternative that. That I remember. So that was kind of a bit of a breakthrough and that we. We've kept with us ever since.
Host
Beautiful disaster with 21 tracks, some things are bound to get lost somewhere. Is there. Even though the record did go platinum so, you know, success. Is there a song you wish was a single or got more love from Transistor?
Nick Hexum
Well, I just one thing about the approach of it is that the same way that the Clash did a triple album of Sandinista and then they. They put on there that it was only supposed to cost like 8.99 to force. So you were giving tons of bang for your buck. Was we. We had that same approach to say we're just going to be restrained by how much the CD will hold.
Bo
Yeah. The literal data.
Nick Hexum
Fill it up. And the label was like, you cannot fit another song on here. So we actually wrote 30 songs for that album and cut nine of them to. To be on that. And we were just like, anything goes. Just say yes to everything. And I think the other guys were really coming into their stride as writers at the time. You know, with Sa writing music for the first. You know, the instrument side of things for the first time. And Peanut and Tim and. And before that had been more me and Chad. Um. And. But what was your question? Like anything.
Host
A song in particular that you kind of wish got more praise.
Nick Hexum
I. I don't know this. The closer stealing Happy Hours is just a really nice, like, we. We play it live a fair amount. There's kind of sleepers mixed in there kind of throughout and then. But there was, I don't know, only a couple bangers, like, what was I thinking? And Beautiful Disaster. Oh, and like Galaxy. But definitely was. Had the most percentage of like, clean guitar, softer songs, but than any of our albums.
Host
So at this point, is every 311 show just a sea of people by this time?
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Host
And so what constitutes a good show and a bad show?
Nick Hexum
Well, let's see. On the Transist tour we called it, we had Incubus and Sugar Ray opening and then we moved into arenas and amphitheaters kind of the first time as. As a headliner. And yeah, I remember a lot of good shows, but I also kind of started to feel a feeling of pressure and that's when I would get in and out of phases of like, doing too many drugs and then cleaning up my act and back and forth until like, finally getting cleaned up. But it was. It was. It was an exciting time. But I do remember a feeling of pressure there. Before that we had just been like, hungry. Like, we're going to make our mark in the world. Like, we're going to make people pay attention and we're just going to. And then. Oh, now everyone's actually paying attention.
Host
Like, now what?
Nick Hexum
It was like a shift. Yeah.
Host
Sound system recorded in 1999. Was Y2K at all a concern to 311?
Nick Hexum
So we took. We were really burned out after the Transist tour and we took 98 off, except for the first month we were. We did the Australian Warped Tour. But February through December was off. So we. We really needed a break because we had been at it. And so we all like, got houses and settled down. We all lived in like, Laurel Canyon within a mile of each other.
Bo
What hobby did you get into? Sure you got into something.
Nick Hexum
I did some surfing for the first time. I got dogs decorating a house and, you know, learning to be a grown up was.
Bo
That was your year to learn.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, we'll get there. And then. And then, yeah, then we got into the studio for sound system and then we were like, all right, we're kind of ready to. To rock a little harder again after there. I love that transistor is, you know, embraced now. But that, like I said, there was a bit of a backlash of people saying 311's gone soft, they suck now. So we kind of. Then the pendulum was swinging back towards, like, the heavy riffs and The Paul Muting opening of like Freeze Time and. And then I remember we were like Hugh Padjim, like, he's. This is a super successful producer with like the Police and XTC and Phil Collins. And then when he got there, he was kind of like, I just want you to know I really don't work on the songs. I'm just going to like record them really good for you. And I was like, oh, I thought you were going to help me with like Every Breath youh Take, part two.
Bo
Yeah, yeah, right.
Nick Hexum
But I, you know, it was a cool.
Host
Which is kind of what you were used to with. With Ron in a way, right? Other than the energy.
Nick Hexum
Exactly. It was. It was another. More of an engineer focused producer. So it was cool. But I. But I did. I always wanted help and you know, input from. So that's why, like I said, working with with Bob Rock was really cool because he like the biggest bag of tricks.
Host
There's a song on one of the Bob Rock records I can't wait to talk about. But before then, we have got to come original.
Nick Hexum
Oh my God.
Host
My God, dude. This fucking banger. Tell me about writing come original.
Nick Hexum
So part of the writing of that was me and Sa and our buddy Brian Ling going down to jamaica in. In 98 to infiltrate like the. The dance hall scene. And like, we went because Native Wayne, who. You hear his voice going cam original on the. He was like. He is kind of the world's leading reggae impresario. I just saw him about a month ago to do a benefit song for the Jamaica. Just got worked over in the Hurricane last year. But so he had us come down and stay at his condo and told us like where to go in Montego Bay and St. Ann's and Ocho Rios. And like, he was like, okay, so like, the real reggae places are down here. And like, you can go if you want. I think you'll be fine. And we went down and we were like the only white people there. And like these massive walls of speakers just. And we were just like grooving and dancing and mixing with the locals and buying people Red Stripes. And so came back from that and like that dance hall was really in us. Like the clubs, the cool clubs at the time were playing like, you know, Beanie man and Shakademus and pliers and like these. This really cool dance hall music. And then. But to do like rock riff combined with the dancehall rhythm that we were into from the club scene and the dance hall, that was. That was a unique blend. And then I Had heard Peanut do this like sick bass line. I was like, we can do that for the rap sections of. You know, we'll have a dance hall. Yeah, he's slapping.
Host
Slapping that thing.
Nick Hexum
He's beating that thing. So yeah, he co wrote that with me. But it's almost like a.
Host
It's like off time with that.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, yeah.
Host
The guitar is playing the reggaeton beat, but the drums are just four.
Bo
Four.
Host
It's awesome.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And reggaeton was actually not even a term. And reggaeton came after that when Hispanic people started into the dance hall rhythms. But yeah, that's now Bad Bunny died at the Super Bowl. That's basically going back to that same. Those the roots of Jamaica, but.
Host
And then no effects. And Black Eyed Peas got a shout out in the song.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And Ronnie Size. Because I was. The early drum and bass was a thing. I was like, this is like EDM with more. And EDM was not it term back then. I was like, this is like techno, but it rocks with this. So that was an influence. Yeah, we're just talking about originality and. And just creative freedom. That's what that song.
Bo
So your message was all.
Host
All.
Bo
All you entertainers, you got to do something original like this.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
That was basically.
Host
Where did the term come from? Is that something you overheard in Jamaica?
Bo
Maybe?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, I would.
Host
I mean I heard it and I was like, he's right.
Bo
He's right. I do.
Host
Who this is. Who played the.
Bo
He's gonna do it. It's gonna kill me. And I'm sorry.
Host
Who played the boing on Come original. You get the best boingest in the world. That one.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, that was. That would have been the dancehall sample CD that I had that I put into my Rack Mount Akai sampler that was made by Sly and Robbie, who. I think one of them just passed away and. Yeah. And that they had a sample CD with all those same reggae song dancehall sounds from like Murder She Wrote and like those hits. So I was like, it's all over. Just dropped in. We kind of put it low in the mix because we wanted the real instruments to be first.
Host
But wow, luckily not too low.
Bo
So there were there.
Host
Because I've been for years.
Bo
Well, because also we.
Nick Hexum
We didn't talk about it, but never stop boinging.
Host
Thank you.
Bo
There's a triangle in Beautiful Disaster. Also the ding.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
And it's kind of. It's kind of reggaeton in itself because of where it is in the placement. Is that sample two or was somebody playing?
Nick Hexum
That's actually from that same cd. So I would just assign all these different sounds to different keys and then just be like,
Bo
wow, cool.
Host
That's awesome.
Bo
Very cool.
Host
So I think music journalism has. Has grown in general, but I think it's become more and more retrospectively kind to 311. And I'm learning a lot. I learned a lot through just researching for this episode how unkind it could be at times. And I'm wondering when that was something that you learned to tune out.
Nick Hexum
I think that we didn't have a lot of expectations to be immediately embraced. Like, here's the next big thing. You know, we just. I just didn't feel like, you know, coming out of Omaha that that was likely. So we just kind of presumed that it was. It wasn't going to be like an easy.
Host
But you're selling out amphitheaters, you're selling millions of records. So it's like, are you just seeing that peripheral and being like, that doesn't matter because this is.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And we had these other examples of, like, them. They said Led Zeppelin sucked too. So, like, they don't know shit. So we're just keep making music straight for the fans and also taking sort of a business model from jam bands of being like, the most important thing is to do a great live show. And the CDs and everything came secondary, which fortunate was fortunate for us because then the CD business completely collapsed, which was. I remember during Sound System, when we. Sound system came out online, like a week before it actually came out. And our manager was like, it's here. And I can't get them to take it down because it's just a bunch of fucking kids. And they're telling me, like, enough of you and delete and kick me off the message board. So we were like, okay, you know, we're a live band first anyway. We're going to tour every summer. And so we had kind of luckily preempted the whole collapse of the recorded music business.
Bo
You were kind of. You were preppers. Inadvertent preppers.
Nick Hexum
Do stay prepping.
Bo
Yeah, totally.
Host
You got your beans and rice and oats. So now. Now it's time to open the hive.
Bo
What.
Host
What inspires you guys to make your own studio in the Valley?
Nick Hexum
I mean, we just knew that, like, it was $1,000 a day to get, like, a nice studio. So why do that?
Bo
And that's 90s money too.
Nick Hexum
Yes.
Host
That's like a half a million dollars.
Nick Hexum
Yes.
Host
A month.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. So I just did some digging and to see that there was like, this Great studio that had. Had, you know, Stevie Wonder in it and stuff that was available for rent. So the first hive.
Host
There's two hives.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. The first hive was for. For only for sound system that we rented. And then we. We put our own gear in there and we had like. We didn't buy tape machines at that point. I think that we. We went and recorded drums at a regular studio, but it was only like a couple. No, no, no. We recorded drums there too. Maybe we did bring in a tape machine. But anyway. And then I was like, well, why are we renting this? Because there's this other studio over here for sale and that has, you know, our current hive, which has had a really nice remodel lately, was like this kind of hot spot for new wave in the 80s. You know, they had like Supertramp and Devo and Missing Persons and all this, like, cool new wave had been recorded there. But when we bought it, we bought it from the Sherry Lewis and Lamb Chop estate. Like she had filmed her puppet shows there, the TV show.
Bo
Wow.
Nick Hexum
In the 80s. And then she passed away. I'm not exactly sure when, but. And then we bought it. We bought it from her estate and then that's been a permanent hive since the From Chaos album.
Host
Let's talk about it.
Nick Hexum
So, yeah, I guess that's like 26 years in. We've had it. Wow.
Bo
Did you. When you acquired it, did you remodel it and make it your own or did you kind of. Was it kind of pre. Furnished and ready to rock or.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, when we. When we first got it, we recorded there for a couple albums with it as is. And it. It had that like real 70s, like, ski lodge look of like all this, like just bare wood everywhere and. But that gave us like the amber drum sound and stuff. But then it started to kind of fall apart. So we've. We did a remodel there before the Uplifter album, and then now we just did another one.
Bo
How fun is it to build out a studio when you have the means to do kind of whatever you want? That has to be the coolest thing in the world.
Nick Hexum
It is. And then because Ron St. Germain is such a gearhead, he was telling us, he was like, he doesn't care for ssl. He doesn't like those boards. He's a Neve guy. The warm analog sound. And he was like, the very best board in the world is the Amec 9098i. And it has the. It's made by Rupert Neve. It has the Neve Sound, but the full recallability of a more modern board, but the classic sound. And he was like, they only made 10 of them. There's one in Chicago at R. Kelly Studio. He's selling it.
Bo
I wonder why.
Nick Hexum
And it was around the time of his first canceling, but he kind of recovered from that one. But anyway, he sold. He sold us his mixing board. And did you sage it? Yes, we saged it.
Bo
We.
Nick Hexum
We had it blessed. And that is. And now that's the one. There's only five of them in the entire world in operation and only one in California. And it's ours. Some engineers say it's the best mixing board that there is. Wow.
Bo
I believe Will Yip has one of them. I believe Contra Hockey.
Host
That's unbelievable.
Bo
Pennsylvania has another one.
Host
So it's from Chaos. From Chaos. First record in the hive.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Host
Couple bangers on this one.
Bo
We got to talk about one.
Host
Oh, yeah.
Bo
I'll be here a while. Beautiful song. Love the fact that it's double time and not halftime. You know what I mean? Because if it was, I'll be totally different.
Nick Hexum
Just be another ballad.
Bo
Yeah, another ballad. But it's got energy. You can literally like moon stomp to it. Like you can dance to it. The radio stations do this thing that drives me insane where they kind of fade out the end of a song and start talking over it and do their. And it drives me nuts. I knew this fact once, but I forgot about it. You just sing a Bad Brains part.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
At the end of the song.
Nick Hexum
And this is from I and I Survive.
Bo
Absolutely. Which is a Rock for Light song, which is my favorite record by them. This is relatively late. Not late, but, you know, relatively into your career as a band. Like this is something you would almost expect early, you know.
Host
But now it's safe.
Bo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. But you're doing it and you're wearing an influence on your sleeve, which is something we greatly appreciate as people who love to know the stories and just blah, blah. I just, I realized when we were doing this research that the key is the same and it's kind of a two chord song, you know. And it's the same as I survived. So I'm just wondering how it happened.
Nick Hexum
It just like it just needed to be said. And I was like, I it. I wanted to do an ad lib. Ad lib. And nobody's better at ad libbing than hr you know what I mean?
Host
Screeched it.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And he just. The way he plays with melody and that really his vocal influence comes from me and you hear a lot of Horace Andy, who's like the great dub reggae singer from the King Tubby days. And then he was in. In Massive Attack for a while and has that really strong vibrato that you can hear HR and so there's just like a family tree going that. I heard it from HR And I was like, oh, he got that from Horace Andy. But the funny thing about that song is that I've had so many people go, 3:11. Aren't you that ska band? I'm like, yeah. On one song, on I'll Be Here A While, we're kind of a ska band. But like.
Bo
But no horns.
Host
No horns. It's okay to be a. The one time ska band if it's like a perfect ska song, which this is. And then the Bad Brains toss in at the end, you're fine. So all the credibility in the world.
Bo
So again, like I told you, when, when we do stuff like this, when
Host
we fly out, we.
Bo
We deep dive, you know, we just listen to everything. And I was at the airport on my way here the other day, and this, this one came on and let it play through because I had a layover, you know, and. And it wasn't. There wasn't some disc jockey talking over it. And I like, I had like that moment, you know, where I just. I was like, oh, here it is. Yeah, this is the connection that people might wonder.
Host
Fugazi for a show.
Bo
Fugazi for a show.
Host
Bad Brains riff on the thing doing the same noises.
Nick Hexum
And I'm glad you guys have a positive look on that because I've like, I dropped a little lyric. I remember a guy on a message board saying, I hate that song. I'll be here while. Because he rips off Bad Brains. I was like, no, I was giving it props. Like, if you're a punk rocker, you knew where that came from. It's an homage. And the same thing in the song Hive, I drop a classic lyric from the song It Takes Two by Rob Bass and DJ Eazy. Rock and Rolling Stone was like, that's appropriation. I was like, no, it's a quote. It's like I'm giving props to the old school lyric. Just like. But whatever.
Host
Everything comes from somewhere.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. We're standing on the shoulders of giants
Bo
and you're being told by people who don't make music that it's bad. And that's the ultimate. Like, I don't care what you have to say because. More. Nine times out of ten, you talk to the original creator of some Song that got covered and was made different or made their own. They love it. They all love it.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, but you really have to. Artists are sensitive and developing some kind of a bit of a thick skin is. Is like a skill that you have to develop in order to not go too crazy. Like, as Turnstile was coming up, I was talking to Brendan a lot. And I know that them coming from such a hardcore scene that there's. There's purists that would get mad that, hey, you've got keyboards in now. What's going on? And he had just such a great attitude and that, like, man, opinions are gonna just vary so widely that you just have to, like, roll with it and let it go, because it is possible that you take it to heart and then you go drive yourself crazy. And I've heard stories of people, like, Googling themselves over and over to see what people are saying about themselves. And that's like, don't do it. That's like anxiety mental institution causing. If you let you know your need for approval, take you to that kind of place.
Bo
And at the end of the day, you guys, Turnstile, they'll be here a while.
Host
Yeah, sure. Oh, very good. Very good. Another little song on this record called Amber turned out to be the biggest one, huh?
Bo
The one.
Host
And like you said earlier, he was like, yeah, I got this other one,
Bo
I guess, which is like, that's lagrange ZZ Top, you know, that's like, what's the. The Peter Chris song? The ballad.
Nick Hexum
Oh, Beth, that's the best.
Bo
You know, and it's like, yeah, I have this one. And it ends up being one of the biggest songs. You know, I would imagine presenting this as a. I also have this. You were surprised.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, I think it was. I mean, I think the true family tree of that song came from Tim making the song Champagne first, which had that guitar. And Tim was actually here today recording some teewa. And then. So then when I came up with the Amber thing, it was basically like the Son of Champagne.
Bo
Did you come up with that riff?
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
Does he resign?
Nick Hexum
I actually. I played it on keyboard.
Host
Oh, okay.
Bo
Does he resent you for having to play that every night? Because that's not.
Host
That's so smooth.
Bo
One of those chili pepper riffs where you can't. It's clean.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
And it's kind of. Or police. It's kind of a message in a
Host
bottle where it's like, there's no gain that.
Bo
Yeah.
Host
That can save you.
Bo
You can't hide behind it, you know?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, No, I I think we all enjoy playing the classics just because we know what they mean to people now,
Bo
like, do they take you to that time, too?
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And we're there to be of service, so it's not only about our enjoyment. We're there to facilitate this, the collective experience, the live show. And when I go to a show, I want to hear classics that have meant a ton to me and. But you don't want to only do the classics either. So that's why we make a fresh set list every night to be like, you know, throwing little bones. Yeah.
Bo
Fascinating.
Host
I watched a video of your Warped Tour set last year, and it's Banger,
Bo
Banger, banger, banger, banger, banger.
Host
Deep cut.
Nick Hexum
Banger, banger, banger, banger.
Host
That's how you do it. Reward the real ones, you know?
Bo
Are you asking the rainstorm to take you away from the north or, like, as a.
Nick Hexum
You've got the lyrics all wrong.
Bo
Okay, please enlighten me.
Nick Hexum
Brainstorm, brainstorm. Take me away from the norm. Please, brain, Take me into a new place.
Bo
Oh, now I get it.
Nick Hexum
So I'm asking.
Host
You were looking at it.
Nick Hexum
I'm asking the muse to lead me.
Bo
I'm a very nautical.
Host
You were Tolkien.
Bo
I'm nautical in my senses, you know, so I'm.
Host
Let the rain take.
Bo
I'm at sea, you know. What can I say? That's fascinating.
Nick Hexum
Wow. Layers.
Host
So, yeah. Amber. Amber. Number one song, I guess. I got this one.
Nick Hexum
It's a very weird road map of a song because it goes like. It starts with riff and then vamp and then like 16 bars of ad libbing and then a chorus and then a verse and then a chorus and then like a dub breakdown and then a guitar solo and then another solo and then a bridge and then another verse.
Host
Structural madness.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, it's. It was. It's completely outside of the box. So that's why. I don't know, really. It was a very slow burn. Like, it took a long time to get going. And then it was. It really hit its peak, like a couple years. I. I think our. Our ticket sales, like, as far as attendance really, like around 05 through 07 was. 04 through 07 was. That's when. Besides, Amber was playing a lot. And then Love Song came in and the whole 51st date soundtrack. So it was just Adam, Happy accident, just, like, letting things happen.
Bo
Music video as well for Amber was. I remember seeing it often. Often.
Nick Hexum
Often, yeah. It was by the Malloy brothers, who were like, surfer guys are like super surfer guys, I think they managed Jack Johnson or something, and they. They were like, we love this song. We're just gonna do our thing with. From making surf videos in Hawaii, but we did it down on a. This, like. And those shacks on the beach, basically. There was this really weird little surf community that had been there forever, but the city had finally evicted them. And so it was just about to be demolished when we shot that music video.
Host
So now it's immortalized.
Bo
Yeah, you got it. Wow.
Host
So you mentioned lovesong. Let's get into it.
Bo
Yeah, I'll talk about that.
Host
Is this a cover? You record for the sake of recording a cover, or is this just.
Nick Hexum
Not at all. It was because Adam Sandler loved the song Amber. And then he said, for my movie set in Hawaii with Drew Barrymore, 50 First Dates, I want to do. Have the whole album, the whole movie, have the Sound of Amber, but I want to do covers of romantic,'80s classic alternative songs done in a reggae style. Genius. So, yeah, it was like this cool vision that I have to give him all the credit for. And like I said, me and Tim's band played. We played like, seven or eight Cure songs. But it was the earlier stuff, you know, the, like, in between days and earlier pornography stuff. Yeah. Head on the Door and then. But this was deconstruction. That was. I actually wasn't that familiar with Love Song disintegration. Disintegration, yes. Yeah. And so. But he suggests. He was like, you. You could do a great cover of Love Song. And I was like, okay. And I just. At that point, I had. Let's see, we were on tour with Incubus again, and I decided to get my own bus so I could bring my dogs with me and. And also have a recording studio now, at the time.
Bo
Yeah, like.
Nick Hexum
Like, this is. This is how I want to spend my money is Spring for my own bus. And I took out the bunks. And at that time, to have a decent recording studio, you. You still needed a lot of gear, rack mounts of the, you know, big. Big Mac.
Host
Now you just need a Universal audio console.
Nick Hexum
Exactly, exactly. But at the time. So I modified a bus. So I was like. And we were on tour when I got the call about Love Song. And I was like, let me see what I can do. And I just. And then we. We did that. Well, we did. We made the whole Love Song that you hear. It was all done on tour. We recorded the drums at a sound check in a club. I think it was the Electric Factory in Philly.
Host
Whoa.
Bo
Played there many times.
Nick Hexum
Nice. And Then and did all the overdubs in the bus. And then he also. I was like, I love this idea. How about Lips Like Sugar, the Echo and the Bunnyman song? How about Stop the World and Melt with youh? And he was like, great, great, great. And so I ended up producing four more songs for that soundtrack and getting Seal to sing Lips Like Sugar and Jason Mraz to sing Stop the World and Melt with youh and Dryden from Ant Farm to sing Friday I'm in Love. And so it was like. And that all happened on this, like, long tour that we were on.
Host
Productive tour.
Nick Hexum
Yes.
Bo
Wow.
Nick Hexum
So it was like. That was the most time that I've ever been part of, like, the Music Machine. Cause, like, going to the premiere and like, they 311 was all over that movie. Like, not. Not just those two songs that I mentioned, but, like, Rub a dub off of. From off of Transistor was. Was in the movie in different. You know, so it was. It was a pretty cool time to be in the Zeitgeist.
Host
Was that your first interaction with Adam Sandler?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, yeah. Again, that guy Brian Ling, who we went to. Brian Ling had made a lot of cool connections. He. He was friends with Adam Sandler, and he was also friends with Shaq to be in our video. And then Shaq came and performed a song with us at the Weenie Roast right after the Lakers won the championship song. We did a song that we did with him because he was like. He was doing a rap record and he was like, I want to do a rock song. And ling was like, 3:11. Those are your boys. So we made this song called Psycho, which is like a rock song. And so we played it live at the Weenie Roast, and the place went absolutely apeshit. It was nuts.
Host
Unbelievable.
Bo
I want to play Psycho. That's amazing.
Host
Evolver would be next up. What comes to mind from that era for you?
Nick Hexum
Really getting into deep diving on the Beatles, learning tons of Beatles songs, reading books about the Beatles, exploring Abbey Road and Revolver, and just, you know, I. Only dumb people try and compare themselves to the Beatles, But I was trying to absorb the masters as much as possible during that time. So you'll hear a lot of the harmonies getting bigger. Also the ELO kind of, you know, harmonies with, like, singing the very highest falsetto that you can possibly do. Yeah, yeah. Doing songs like Same Mistake Twice. And that had that kind of more crazy vocal production in there. And then the song Creatures for a while. Often Evolver. To me, that was like a big. To have a song that Rocks that hard. That isn't one of your super oldies. That was like a big kind of accomplishment. And that's still like one of the closers that we.
Bo
Oh, nice.
Host
Yeah. Because you mentioned Beatles ELO and all these advanced new techniques you're learning late into your career. But this song is like heavy dang,
Nick Hexum
da da da da. Heavy chorus, these little key changes, these modulations that to me sounded a little beatly, but combined with like a. It's the same tempo as down, because down was probably the song that made people go the most nuts. So instead of. I was like, it's that.
Host
So the intention here is the energy is.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, a lot of it. Yeah.
Bo
Yeah, I see.
Host
How do your songwriting goals change and evolve 10 years later? Setting out to make. Are you setting out to make, you know, a couple more songs that you're psyched to play live or is it just, hey, let's write another killer record?
Nick Hexum
Well, I keep my expectations low because I know that it's just something that I enjoy so much to. To make music and, you know, whether it becomes as important as our other music, I. That I don't know. And you keep your expectations low because, you know, we've been. We're coming on our 36 year anniversary, so it's. You know, some artists just say it's not even worth it. People aren't even checking out our new stuff. But I know that it's something that I enjoy so much and that the band enjoys. And then also to get into, you know, exploring, like really, you know, this kind of Americana stuff that I. I did last year, that was just like going into really the dark caves of my psyche to talk about stuff that I didn't really want to talk about. But I knew that it was cathartic for me. And also other people had been through similar stuff, whether it was, you know, my brother passing away or, you know, addiction and, you know, different. Different things that I felt like I. I hadn't talked about yet. So it was a lot of fun for me to. To make that music. And even if it doesn't really,
Bo
you
Nick Hexum
know, catch on a lot doesn't matter. I just, I. That's what Rick Rubin spoke says is like, you got to have courage to keep doing frequent releases and not, you know, live. Live and die by how. How they're received. You know, you know, a writer writes and so. But we always. We're also performers too. So it's like, you know, a lot of artists at our phase of career might just become. I'm a Song and dance, man. You know what I mean? I just. I go out and play the oldies, and that's a big part of what we do. But then also to keep that creativity going is, you know, I. I still can get really excited about other people's new music as well as my own. And. And the. And my collaborators in the band, like, it's.
Host
Those are your guys.
Nick Hexum
It's all still there. We.
Bo
I mean, we listen to stuff that comes out all the time, whether it's from underground music or more mainstream music or whatever. We're constantly checking out new music and going back or revisiting a band and revisiting or seeing their new record, I should say, and finding a song that
Host
connects with you, it's the best.
Bo
Feels so good. So there's no reason to ever stop. The newest Alice in Chains record is unbelievable. Like. Like Jerry still got it. You never know.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, Jerry's so talented. I just listened to Nothing Shocking in its entirety today. And that just brought me back. I was like, this is so weird and so cool. There nothing like this before Jane's Addiction, you know, beautiful.
Host
You did a greatest hits record after this, which pre streaming is like a huge deal like that. This went num. This hit number seven on the Billboard 200. And you can just check that out with playlists now. Everybody's got a greatest hit playlist. But yeah.
Bo
What.
Host
How. What's the approach like for that? How involved are you in that? And is this something you care about at the time?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, I mean, we definitely had input on which songs to include. Like, the song beyond the Gray sky wasn't a hit, but in our world it was because it was very important moment for us to play live to, you know, to talk about, you know, people who we've lost and talk about getting through depression and the story about losing a friend to suicide. And so. So, like, that's on the greatest hits, but it wasn't a greatest hit at all. But. So, yeah, we. We definitely had input on there. And then, you know, we did the obligatory two new songs to. To include. And we worked with David Kahn, who, you know, he had done like Sublime and Sugar Ray and Paul McCartney and some cool people. So I actually learned a ton from him on those.
Host
So Don't Tread on Me would be next opening song, title track. Is this a live staple now? It should be.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. We. It. It hadn't been, but we. Last year we started playing it.
Host
Great song. Pretty often the decision to do that kind of like you. You talked about this earlier with you and essays, harmonies, how sometimes it's the. It's just there. But then you cross that bridge. There's like that dissonant harmony that you go into the. Ah. Where it's like the brain doesn't expect you to go there when you're listening to this song. Was that a deliberate thing or.
Nick Hexum
I just felt just. It just came out naturally.
Bo
Wow. We were talking in. In the car, like, no, they. There's a reason. What a crazy choice they had to do it this way.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. I remember that we actually had a big fight with our label at that point that led to us parting ways with them because they were like, you don't have a single on this. You know, you guys need to go back into the studio. And I was like, I think this is. This album is as good as it's gonna get. And I think there are some really good songs on there. I understand that it's a little. Not formulaic and maybe not what you want. And then that song came out, and it actually tied for number one with a Nine Inch Nails song. So I kind of had the last laugh. But they were so mad. I don't understand that. We didn't want to shelve it. We were like, we want to get this out in time for summer tour. We think it's a good album. I don't know. Maybe they were right that the record as a whole could have been stronger. But there's. There's some cool songs on there. Yeah.
Host
100% the state of music by 2005. Now that you're living through the Napster fiasco, Torrance, how. How hard does that hit 311? Is that some. Is that something that you and your peers in the industry are all worried about and talking about?
Nick Hexum
I think the sketchy time was a little. Yeah. 0607, I was definitely downloading stuff.
Host
By 2000, 2005, I was online.
Nick Hexum
I mean, the problem was they had overcharged so much for music. Like, when you're charging $18 for a CD and then a kid's like, or I can just have a 50 cent blank CD and download these songs. Like, you know, I think people that didn't usually steal were like, it's too expensive. I'm. I'm just gonna.
Host
I need my music.
Nick Hexum
I need my music. And the. And. And also, you know, thinking, well, these guys are rock stars. You know, they're. They don't need the money. I need this. You know, So I. Which I. Which I understood. And like I said, we had more just focused on the Touring world more. Anyway, and then. Yeah, and then we. We made Uplifter with. With Bob Rock. And that was just like a really cool learning experience from.
Host
And had you heard St. Anger when you hired Bob Rock for Uplifter or seen Some Kind of Monster?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, definitely saw Some kind of Monster and was. And had been into Metallica, black albums.
Host
So you as an. As an artist and as somebody who worked with Bob Rock or was about to work with Bob Rock, how did Some Kind of Monster resonate with you?
Bo
Oh, we've never been able to ask that before.
Host
It is like one of the most egoless pieces of art ever made, I would say.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. No, I mean, it was really revealing to. For them to. It was pretty triggering for me to see the tension in those band meetings, and for them to put that all out there was pretty damn courageous. And then Bob would share a lot of the sort of psychological tools that he learned. If I would say, that's kind of Boring part. He was like, that's a very triggering word for you to call somebody's work boring. You know what I mean?
Host
Wow.
Nick Hexum
Or if I would say, well, this part right here gets a little boring. He was like, let's try. Try a different word from that. And so he helped us with our interpersonal kind of thing.
Host
He learned a lot from. What's the therapist's name?
Bo
I forget his name.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, the guy from.
Host
That guy. Sweaters 40, 000amonth.
Bo
He plays. There's something that's crazy about that documentary. Obviously we won't talk about it that long, but, like, they had Hawaiian Shirt Day in the studio. Never mentioned in the documentary. So you'll have these fights and they're all just wearing Hawaiian gear. No reason. And it's just never once mentioned. That's kind of the craziest part.
Host
Did you guys have Hawaiian Shirt Day on Uplifter?
Nick Hexum
No, that came up over the past decade on Fridays on tour.
Host
Oh, really good Hawaiian shirts. There's a song on Universal Pulse called Sunset in July.
Bo
He can't believe this.
Host
I cannot believe this song. And to me. So you mentioned Morrissey earlier. Why don't you find out for yourself? Saints are mad. Sunset in July. Was that subconscious or is that conscious? Are you just discovering this now?
Nick Hexum
No, I can acknowledge what he's saying. And, yeah, he's just got away with melodies.
Host
He's unfortunately the greatest of all time, you know?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, unfortunately.
Host
Yes, it is what it is. We just talked about it. Maybe not the best guy, maybe the worst guy. No less than 1,000 bangers yeah. So these records with Bob Rock, he is not a sit back and engineer type producer. Right. So did you enjoy that process?
Nick Hexum
Yeah, like it was. He was a sixth band member. Like we all had our little stations and he had his station with his pedals and his amp and his guitar and he would be in there with us and we, we definitely welcomed it. And he brought so much gear with him, like these weird pedals and had Tim, you know, getting into the whammy pedal, which, you know, like Tom Morello and some others have used and Tim used on that album. And then we would have keyboard days where we would. He and I spent like three days at the end of the album. We would just go through each song and just add some pads or a shaker or some different Boeing. Pardon me.
Host
Boing.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, Boings.
Bo
Well, that was the God of boings.
Host
Yeah, we're going analog. Boing. Now we got Bob Rock on the. On the helm.
Bo
It's true. Was this song pre written before you started working with Bob Rock?
Nick Hexum
Which one?
Host
Sunset in July.
Nick Hexum
Sunset? Well, you know, no, because we. Uplifter was our first record with Bob Rock and then Universal Pulse was our second and that was on there. So. Yeah, it was. We had already worked with him and. But then I.
Bo
What I'm wondering is if that. That big G was Bob Rock's C, right? You know, his, his chord progression sensibility or if it was something you had already had.
Nick Hexum
I don't remember.
Bo
Cuz this guy, he can't believe a G major.
Host
I love a G major, but I think that was a C. No, no.
Nick Hexum
All right.
Host
Well, no.
Bo
Is it G? Is it G? G?
Host
Stereolithic and mosaic.
Nick Hexum
I mean, the song's in F. Well,
Host
Stereolithic and mosaic. Walk me through them. This is, this is where all the Hive. The Hive has been ground zero since 2000. Well, that's a crazy sense. The Hive has not been ground 0 since 2001. The Hive has been the home of the recording since 2001. Now how does. How does the process change here? Bob's out of the picture here.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And then we're back with Scotch, who did Transistor and has been our live sound guy for a long time.
Bo
That's cool.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. Wow. And we met him on our very first LA recording experience when we as being Eddie Offered's assistant. So he's like, you know, our same age. We've known him for 35 years. And you know, I think that Universal Pulse is only eight songs. And then we kind of started to. There was a little Bit of lack of cohesion as far as like where we should be going. So after that we. We kind of took a bit of a break and then we got back into like whatever. Like the. The attitude that we had on Transistor, which was like just. Just throw and go and see what happens. And so I think there's a bit of a. An attitude similarity between transistor and. And stereolithic. Interesting because getting more into the weirdness and. And then following that up with Mosaic where then I felt like that was kind of like our sound system period, where we're starting to get a little bit more momentum and break. Have some breakthroughs of doing these kind of epic songs that were like long songs. We're getting into like the classical. Having some classical chord changes in there. And I started working with it a couple different guitar teachers and really filling in my knowledge of technique and scales and modes and how Bach made his chord changes and stuff like that. So I don't know, that's some stuff that come to mind. But I'm jumping ahead, keeping Grow.
Host
We're just growing and growing and growing. That's what it's all about. Voyager, you would put out and then Covid happened.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Host
What. What was that experience like? And then how did you use that time off?
Bo
We're sitting.
Host
Yeah, I guess we are.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. Built a studio and the, you know, we really like, we. We have a fairly busy touring schedule. But then like. So now what are we going to do? So I have to give real props to our. Our road crew is because they figure out how to do live streaming. And then we had Live from the Hive sessions and we did a 3:11 mark 3:11 day show where we played Transistor in its entirety on. On March 11th. And then like once a month stream different albums. So as a way to stay connected to our fans and let our, you know, the fans have their own party in front of the couch.
Host
Yeah.
Nick Hexum
Dancing around.
Host
People needed it.
Bo
Very, very resourceful as a band that Doomsday prepped for streaming. Ironically, Doomsday puts you in a position where it's like, oh, we can't play.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, all right, we'll figure it out.
Bo
Yeah, technology. Because if that happened in the 90s,
Host
I guess, yeah, records will be good.
Bo
Just can't win.
Host
So in with. In hardcore and punk, after Covid there was this enormous boom and like we're still seeing it to an extent. Like Turnstile just won two Grammys, you know. Was. Did you notice it the same in. In 311 world, was there a Big boom in sales and people like numbers out of lockdown.
Bo
I gotta see 311.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, well I. What I know is that there was pent up desire for touring but every band was doing it. So we had to like are the normal buses that we use were not available. So we were in like these broke down buses that had like. That was not working because there was such a crazy demand and like every roadie was busy and fortunately we've got a really loyal crew. But it was, it was different for a while and. But better. No, not better. There was still just a lot of tension over just in, in the air with the country with people upset about lockdowns and masks and different things like that.
Host
So still going, still the residual energy still flowing hatefully. Full Bloom would be your most recent record released by your own company, skp, which is very cool. I would love to talk about skp, explain that to the world. What you've done here.
Nick Hexum
So, so much of what a label used to do has changed. You got to think about the barrier to entry of when we first started a. You had to have a recording studio and then you. Most people, you'd hire a producer. There's tape, there's getting that duplicated and then physically getting those to stores and then there's brick and mortar stores. All that is completely different. Now you've got, you know, like Billie Eilish never set foot in a regular recording studio until she was already like, you know, everywhere. So the traditional what a label does has totally changed. And so having like a portal where you can get your distribution but then also to see the different metrics of what's working and what's not working and kind of self service your own music. It's just we saw an opportunity there and helping people become major label. SKPS escapee Escaping.
Bo
Wow.
Host
You just essayed all over. Unbelievable.
Bo
Wow, that's good.
Nick Hexum
God damn this guy. My wife came up with it.
Bo
Genius.
Host
She's good.
Bo
You should marry us.
Host
You should build her studio. Is there anything Nick, now however many Years you said, 36 years into 311, is there anything you feel you haven't achieved yet artistically that you would like to.
Nick Hexum
Yeah, like I. I always find new things that make me curious. That's the best thing an artist can do is just follow their curiosity. Absolutely. Last year I was into very personal, kind of Americana and you know, did a side project. I do have this demo of a song that goes through a lot of different sections. Like I'm taking that whole journey with. Through different movements Thing kind of further. And that excites me. And I'm also kind of fascinated with jazz from the 40s of when, you know, there was jazz had, like, hit songs before rock and roll. There was. There was a kind of a. A glory era that I've been getting really into. And, you know, Chet Baker and Billie Holiday and Dinah Washington and Sarah Vaughn and stuff like that. That interests me right now. So. But then I also, at the same time, like energetic music to, like, when I exercise, I have different playlists for different activities. Like. Like a house tempo is good for jumping rope or being on the elliptical. And then I have like a 150bpm playlist that is good for when I'm running.
Host
Yeah.
Nick Hexum
So I've kind of been kicking around the idea of, like, what if I make music specifically for. Because people moving their body in rhythm, it releases oxytocin. That's why you get a high from a great concert. It's not just because the music is good. It's because of the shared energy field that's going with people. It's the same reason why they have at boot camp. You march is because of this, the bonding that you get. People feel a real high from rhythmic moving. Whether it's like, dance is the number one best thing that you can do to improve your. To fight depression. It's clinically proven to be better than any prescription medication or anything like that. So I know I'm, like, getting all over the place.
Bo
No, no, no. I see the vision. I see what you're saying.
Host
My next note here is you're so vascular and jacked. What is your physical? You just mentioned how important movement is for what you do, what you preach, everything. What's your physical regimen like at home and on tour?
Nick Hexum
So I just finished a really good book called Dopamine Nation, and she talks about how the avoidance of pain will cause you more pain. Like, you need to experience some discomfort because the homeostasis of the pain and pleasure thing. So what I try and do is start my day with hard things, which include a vigorous workout, both cardio and strength, and then maybe like a cold plunge, because, like, after that, I don't have any aches and pains. And then I feel, like, alive and ready to attack the day.
Host
Seven days a week?
Nick Hexum
Pretty much, yeah.
Host
How long?
Bo
What's the playlist for?
Nick Hexum
Not super long. So that's the thing is, like, people, you've. You got your goals and stuff you want to do during the day. And if you like, I've found ways that I can get it down to like 25, 30 minutes. And to get that. Okay, now I'm ready for my day. I'd get that done between 8:15 and 8:45, right after the kids leave for school.
Bo
What's the. Do you have, like, a good 65 bpm? Heavy weightlifting playlist?
Host
A lot of crowbar.
Bo
Crowbar in there.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. I definitely put on Pantera when I'm
Host
ready to like, another band that loves helmet.
Nick Hexum
True. Very true.
Host
Wow. The other thing that obviously very important that goes along with that is diet.
Bo
I was just gonna ask. Yeah, what's that?
Host
How do you. What diet needs to be done to be that vascular?
Nick Hexum
It's more about the frequency of revving my engine every day. I had, you know, I was known as the keto guy for a while that like.
Bo
Yeah, us too. Yeah.
Nick Hexum
And then. But I.
Bo
2018, I wouldn't look at a carb straight up.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. No. I went for like a year without having sugar or bread. But I find I have more energy now when I eat full spectrum. And I was needing. I know they say you're supposed to get into, like, fat adapted and stuff and then have lots of energy, but it didn't really work for me. And I. I was vegan for a little while, but I was just eating so much, even though it was like, I couldn't get full. So now I'm kind of just back to just a traditional diet of a little bit of everything and try and stay away from the bad stuff. But it's more about frequently revving your engine.
Bo
Love it.
Host
Now, when do you partake in the bad stuff? Tell me, what do you like when
Bo
you get a bad brain? So it's good.
Nick Hexum
I love a five Guys burger with every last thing that they have on there. I make my own homemade pizza that is like this just combo with. And I make it like thin and crispy but piled with stuff, but like a really good crust to it, you know? And it's Girl Scout cookie season.
Bo
Oh, my God. Have you tried the Explore mores?
Nick Hexum
I just had them for the first time last night.
Host
Don't tell me what this is, dude.
Bo
It's like Rocky road in a cookie form. Yes. They are incredible.
Host
I need this revolution. I've been needing to explore less.
Bo
You can order them online, like from them, and they'll deliver it.
Nick Hexum
I actually tweet. I think it was on threads that I put a leak to my daughter's. If you need some, get them through my daughter's Girl Scout.
Bo
That's embezzlement. Man, how dare you?
Nick Hexum
It's for a good cause.
Bo
They do good.
Nick Hexum
They're cleaning up the beach and doing stuff like that.
Bo
Okay, but that. Those are incredible. I, I, I, I can't wait to go home and get some more.
Host
I need no further information on what they are. You just went five guys. Your instinct was five guys there.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. Which I like it better than in and out, really? Or Shake Shack?
Host
I mean, it's obviously.
Bo
I like Shake Shack.
Host
I like it too, but it's too modern.
Bo
Dude, it's very modern. It's like a club.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Host
Come on, man.
Bo
Yeah, yeah.
Host
But wow, five guys over in and out.
Bo
Now, what about back in the day 311 in that. Are that roughing it to RV? Where are you guys stopping?
Nick Hexum
I mean, I would always make sure there was like, cereal to go with us on the.
Host
One of the fattest things in Ankony is a bolster.
Bo
It's crazy, but what about any fast food that, like, the band collectively was like, oh, they have that pull over. We gotta go.
Nick Hexum
I think it was just a little bit of everything. We were kind of early to get really, like, into good sushi. Like when I had dried sushi for the first time straight out of Omaha in 1988, and they showed me, like, and now you do the ginger between the bites and you mix the wasabi. Like, it was all so new. I was like, this is incredible.
Bo
It's the most exotic thing. Yeah, totally.
Host
It gets me every time to say, I'm fired up. I can't wait to eat some later.
Bo
Yeah, we're going to eat some.
Host
Which now we're gonna do.
Nick Hexum
Smash it.
Bo
I want that.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Host
Okay.
Bo
I want that.
Host
We have one final question for you. The people have all been dying to know. I've been dying to know.
Bo
We've.
Host
We've dropped some Easter eggs throughout the episode, but we want to know your four favorite punk slash hardcore records of all time.
Nick Hexum
Well, I really do love fugazi. 13 songs with waiting Room on there. I would say that the. The Clash's London Calling was for me, like when the musicality and the. And the punk rock energy, you know, was just hit this, like apex.
Bo
There's a deep cut on there that I'll wake up with. Death or Glory. The chorus, I'll wake up with that in my head. And it. It's a week before it goes away.
Nick Hexum
Yeah.
Bo
Can't believe that song.
Nick Hexum
Yeah. And then either of those Bad Brains albums of Quickness or I against I were super important. I would say that that quickness Actually has better production because the. I don't know.
Host
There's a little Mackie from the Craw Mags on drums on that one, too.
Nick Hexum
That's right. That's right.
Bo
He's a quickness guy.
Host
I like them both.
Bo
I know, but. But I like doing this. He's more of a quickness. He hates.
Host
I can sign.
Bo
I'm more of an eye against eye guy.
Nick Hexum
Okay. I think.
Host
I guess I is better.
Bo
No, he loves quickness. He never shuts up.
Host
Okay, great answer. Great answer.
Bo
Good answer.
Nick Hexum
Okay, so that's three. And then fourth one is always the hardest. It is more of a deeper cut would be like the Descendants, like Milo Goes to College, Something from back then that, like, was like. This is, like, really cool. Like this. The songwriting, it's just. It's good songwriting, even, but it's. It's, like, super punk. And I don't know if that's great.
Bo
Oh, yeah, Absolutely.
Host
It's a common one.
Bo
Yeah.
Nick Hexum
Is it?
Bo
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
Host
Nick Hexum, we did it.
Nick Hexum
This is fantastic.
Host
What an incredible chat. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Nick Hexum
I told so many stories that I had never told before, never even thought of. Perfect.
Bo
All for 311 day.
Host
That's what we want. Happy 311 day to all. Happy 311 day to us for getting to share this beautiful experience. Nick, we cannot thank you enough.
Nick Hexum
This was fun.
Host
It really was. If you have any parting words to leave the people with, I'm sure they'd love to hear.
Nick Hexum
We love our fans. We're so grateful to get to do this for yet another year as we're about to turn 36.
Host
Many people don't get to be 36, you know, let alone many bands. Okay. So that's a beautiful thing. Thank you so much. Thank you all for watching. We love you so much. See you next week.
Nick Hexum
Bye.
Host
This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.
Episode: Nick Hexum: 311, Opening for Fugazi, Bad Brains Influence & Selling 10+ Million Albums
Released: March 12, 2026
Hosted by Colin Young & Bo Lueders (Knotfest)
This episode of HardLore welcomes Nick Hexum, frontman of the multi-platinum band 311, as the hosts dive deep into his journey from Omaha roots to alternative rock stardom. The discussion traverses topics such as early punk influences, Backstage tales of opening for legends like Fugazi, studio stories, friendship and band longevity, run-ins with music industry myths, and the philosophy that 311 has carried for nearly four decades. The tone is warm, nostalgiac, and marked by genuine curiosity from the hosts, resulting in stories and insights that span cultural lore and personal growth.
This episode is a compelling oral history of 311 from the man who lived it, brimming with tales of music scenes, perseverance, experimentation, and a “follow your curiosity” ethos. Nick Hexum’s openness, thoughtful asides, and the hosts’ deep-dive questions make this not only a chronicle of a band’s journey, but a guide for artists navigating their own paths—whether on major labels, indie studios, or streaming platforms.
“We love our fans. We’re so grateful to get to do this for yet another year, as we're about to turn 36. Many people don’t get to be 36, let alone many bands.” — Nick Hexum (120:40)