Elizabeth Warren On Biden’s Age and Dems 2024 Messaging

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know
Episode: Elizabeth Warren On Biden’s Age and Dems 2024 Messaging
Release Date: July 8, 2024

In this engaging episode of Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know, award-winning comedian Hasan Minhaj sits down with Senator Elizabeth Warren to delve into pressing political issues surrounding the 2024 election. Their conversation navigates through topics such as President Biden’s age, Democratic Party messaging strategies, congressional stock ownership, and the importance of governance over showmanship. The dialogue is infused with humor, sharp insights, and candid reflections, making complex political discourse accessible and entertaining.

---

1. Setting the Stage: The State of the 2024 Election (00:00 - 03:03)

Hasan Minhaj opens the conversation by addressing voter concerns heading into the 2024 election:

"With the 2024 election just months away, the Dems are in big trouble. And it's prompted some tough questions from voters like, how old is too old to be President? How dumb is too dumb to be a democracy?"
(00:32)

He introduces Senator Elizabeth Warren as the ideal guest to tackle these issues, highlighting her intellectual prowess and dedication to governance.

2. Scrutinizing Democratic Messaging (03:03 - 10:53)

Minhaj critiques the Democratic Party’s struggle with effective messaging compared to Republican counterparts, particularly Donald Trump’s knack for catchy slogans.

"Donald J. Trump came down the escalator doing the prom wave... Why, after 10 years, have the Democrats been unable to out message Donald J. Trump?"
(10:42)

Elizabeth Warren counters by emphasizing the substance over style, arguing that while messaging is important, the tangible impact of policies holds more weight:

"I understand catchphrases matter, but half of America has lost access to a constitutional right to have access to abortion... Democracy has to be about the function, not the show."
(08:52 - 09:47)

3. Governance vs. Showmanship (10:53 - 14:47)

The discussion shifts to the balance between effective governance and the performative aspects of politics. Minhaj suggests that in the digital age, perception may overshadow actual policy outcomes.

"When it comes to any piece of legislation, I would argue in the digital age, messaging is actually more important than governing."
(10:42)

Warren reinforces the importance of policy impact, highlighting achievements such as reducing insulin costs and canceling student loan debt.

"Donald Trump... he accomplished two things... Joe Biden has been president for three years... delivering for young people."
(05:09 - 06:42)

4. Enhancing Democratic Engagement and Representation (14:47 - 19:00)

Minhaj and Warren discuss the demographic representation in government, focusing on age diversity. Minhaj questions whether the current age spectrum in Congress reflects America’s median age of 39.

"The median age of this country is 39. Some of our members of government are over double my age."
(18:58 - 19:00)

Elizabeth Warren agrees on the necessity for diverse perspectives, including age diversity, to ensure that governance remains dynamic and representative.

"I think you are right that we do need a diversity of perspectives, and that includes age."
(19:16)

5. Tackling Congressional Stock Ownership and Financial Ethics (19:00 - 23:14)

The conversation turns to the ethical concerns surrounding stock trading by members of Congress. Minhaj pokes fun at the incongruity of lawmakers profiting from stock trades while serving the public.

"When you see a colleague like Bob Menendez out here collecting rubies, gold coins, like he's a freaking pirate, how do you feel about this?"
(20:23)

Elizabeth Warren expresses a deep sense of betrayal and advocates for stringent measures to prevent conflicts of interest:

"If you want to be in public service, in my view, you don't buy stock, you don't sell stock, you don't own stock... you live on that salary, and that's what you get."
(20:54 - 21:43)

She highlights her efforts in co-sponsoring bipartisan legislation to ban congressional stock ownership, underscoring the need for ethical integrity in governance.

6. Philosophical Reflections on Leadership and Moral Integrity (23:14 - 26:29)

Minhaj poses a philosophical question about the moral challenges of leadership, especially in high-stakes roles like the presidency.

"How can a progressive president keep their heart pure when they have to wield the threat of force? Because I believe the paradox of the presidency is how do you scale empathy."
(23:14 - 24:44)

Elizabeth Warren acknowledges the ethical dilemmas inherent in political decision-making, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a moral compass even when faced with tough choices:

"I have to vote more than once on bills... there's some really awful pieces to it. I want somebody who at their heart, won't go there."
(25:26 - 26:29)

7. Light-Hearted Moments and Closing Fun (26:29 - 31:27)

The episode concludes with a playful segment where Minhaj quizzes Warren on bankruptcy law, drawing parallels between her reputation as a tough professor and their friendly banter.

"If someone did not come correct when they came to class, you were like J.K. Simmons in Whiplash."
(28:27)

Elizabeth Warren participates in the fun, demonstrating her quick wit and rapport with Minhaj.

8. Final Thoughts and Takeaways (31:08 - End)

Closing the episode, Hasan Minhaj reiterates the importance of effective communication in politics while acknowledging the substantial policy impacts discussed.

"Remember, go to directfile.irs.gov to file your taxes for free. And to be clear, Anil Kapoor does not have an OnlyFans page. But he should."
(30:47 - 31:19)

Elizabeth Warren leaves listeners with a message of perseverance and the significance of making informed political choices.

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Key Quotes:

• Hasan Minhaj (00:32): "How old is too old to be President? How dumb is too dumb to be a democracy?"

• Elizabeth Warren (09:47): "We may not be the best at messaging, and I don't pretend to be one of the people who comes up with the cute catchphrase, but it really is the case. The stuff touches people's lives."

• Hasan Minhaj (10:42): "When it comes to any piece of legislation, I would argue in the digital age, messaging is actually more important than governing."

• Elizabeth Warren (20:54): "If you want to be in public service, in my view, you don't buy stock, you don't sell stock, you don't own stock, you don't take side gigs. We're done."

• Hasan Minhaj (23:14): "How can a progressive president keep their heart pure when they have to wield the threat of force? Because I believe the paradox of the presidency is how do you scale empathy."

---

Conclusion:

This episode of Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know offers a compelling blend of humor and serious political discourse. Senator Elizabeth Warren provides insightful perspectives on the challenges facing the Democratic Party, the ethical responsibilities of public officials, and the importance of genuine governance over mere messaging. Minhaj’s witty interrogation coupled with Warren’s thoughtful responses create a balanced and enlightening conversation for listeners keen on understanding the intricacies of American politics as we approach the 2024 elections.

Transcript

[Hasan Minhaj]

One of the benefits of President Biden being the President is that we don't have to argue about whether or not he can drive. I'm actually kind of glad that you did not become president. The presidency opens a lot of those, let's call them, those Puff Daddy doors where you're just like, shit's about to go wild here. Do you want to see Mitch McConnell's whale tale? You'd be like, well, his pants are sagging. Is America too dumb for democr?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Outrageous.

[Hasan Minhaj]

With the 2024 election just months away, the Dems are in big trouble. And it's prompted some tough questions from voters like, how old is too old to be President? How dumb is too dumb to be a democracy? And how the fuck are members of Congress still allowed to trade stock? I thought the best person to answer these tough questions would be someone who ran for president, is relatively old, and isn't dumb or corrupt. I'm talking about Senator Elizabeth Warren. Back in April, I sat down with Senator Warren at her beautiful home in Cambridge, Massachusetts, to speak with her about the current moment we're living through. Meet her dog and drop a deuce in her downstairs bathroom.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Hurry. Right away. Nobody laid down.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Senator Warren, thank you so much for having us. So happy to be here, here in your wonderful sunroom. Senator Warren, are you familiar with House of Highlights?

[Elizabeth Warren]

No.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, so House of Highlights is like an Instagram account that is dedicated to like NBA highlights of my favorite NBA players crossing people up, just yakking on people. Senator Warren, I see you as an intellectual athlete.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Ah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Especially when you are cooking people in those Senate hearings. When you're just dunking on bankers and putting your nuts in the mouth of Equifax. In Wells Fargo, you are going ham. So we put together a little highlight reel of you yakking on all these bankers and other politicians. Why don't you give it a look?

[Elizabeth Warren]

A billionaire who calls women fat broads and horse faced lesbians. And no, I'm not talking about Donald Trump. I'm talking about Mayor Bloomberg. It's gutless leadership. Did you have your eyes sewaged closed? It was, how many billions of dollars do you have to launder for drug lords before somebody says we're shutting you down? Let me just stop you right there, Mr. Secretary.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're not letting me finish.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, I'm not. You know, I don't understand why anybody goes to all the trouble of running for President of the United States just to talk about what we really can't do and shouldn't fight for. I don't deserve it. They all deserve that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

When you are roasting that ass, what is the pregame ritual? Are you taking HGH deca sauce or you just doing that all natty?

[Elizabeth Warren]

You know, I'm just doing it all, Nadia.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Really?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, totally. I don't even do coffee.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No caffeine.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I don't do coffee.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So it's just the thrill of taking down late stage capitalism, you know, because it deserves it.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Those guys deserved every bit of what they got and more. I look at that and just think, gee, I wonder if there's anything more I could have done to him, you know, like pick them back up and hit him again. Because these are the guys who have figured out how to not just get rich. Fine, want to get rich, but how to get so rich and to do it by cheating other people. You do it by inventing something great. Good for you. You do it by figuring out a more efficient way to run something good for you. You have some innovation nobody had good for you. But you get rich by opening fake accounts for customers and then ruining their credit rating so you could make a few more bucks by damn. You deserve everything I give them and more.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's zoom out. Okay, we are in the midst of the 2024 election cycle. We have begun. Here's why. We drove up to Massachusetts to sit down with you today, Senator Warren. All of the smartest people I know, our Elizabeth Warren stands. Okay. It's usually kind of like an npr, tote bag, granola eating, Lisa Simpson type character. Okay? And it makes sense that you are the senator from Massachusetts. It's the most educated state in the country. But America is not Massachusetts. America is Tampa. My question to you is, is America too dumb for democracy?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Outrageous. No, it's not, Senator Warren. No, it is not.

[Hasan Minhaj]

12 million more people voted for Trump in 2020 than voted for him in 2016.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I understand that. I don't. I can't explain it, but I understand that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But Senator Warren, when you're kicking back a few Michelob Ultras, which I know is your favorite thing.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yes, it is.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have to be doom scrolling and being like, fuck, these people are fucking bronze.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Absolutely not. So let me put it this way. I think what's going to happen is we're going to get down to a sharper contrast. Who is Donald Trump and who is Joe Biden? And for the first time in, like forever, we have two people running for president, both of whom have been president for a period of time. So we don't have to listen to their airy promises. We can actually see what they did. So Donald Trump, president for four years, and he accomplished two things. One is that he got an extremist Supreme Court that has overturned Roe versus Wade, and now 20 states in America have largely banned access to abortion. It's moving into ivf. Terrible, terrible. And the second thing he did is he got through a giant tax break that was mostly, mostly sucked up by millionaires, billionaires, and giant corporations. So that's what he's going to have to stand on. However many fireworks he wants to throw off or how much smoke and mirrors. Those are the two things he stood for. Joe Biden has been president for three years, a little over. And what has he gotten done during that period? It's things that touch people. So we're now at $35 insulin. You know anybody who has diabetes now? There you go. Seniors have access to $35. Insulin. Don't have to pay more. He's canceled student loan debt for 4 million Americans. And it's adding up more and more. Tens of thousands every month are getting their student loan infrastructure bill. Biggest infrastructure package in history.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So, Senator Warren, what you're talking about is governance.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And believe it or not, you and I, we're totally in agreement on so many things. Politically, you and I probably have a similar vision for what we want in terms of domestic policy, student loan debt, climate change, cease fire, foreign policy. We are pretty much in alignment in all of those things.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Good.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But the difference where there is a huge frustration with young progressives is in messaging. And Senator Warren, this is what I think. I think America is too dumb for democracy, but smart enough for wrestling. Wrestling and politics is all about messaging. What you talked about there is all valid. But the frustration has been messaging. Every character that's in wrestling has a catchphrase. And as you know, DJT has incredible catchphrases. Build the wall, Stop the steal China virus. Democrats are horrible at catchphrases. They're the equivalent of WWF's Dean Douglas. Do you know who Dean Douglas is? So this was Dean Douglas. He would walk around with the green paddle, and as a character, he lasted for a measly two years in the wwf. He was the policy wonk of wrestling. His catchphrase was class dismissed. Here's my question for the Democratic Party.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Mm.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is Biden's catchphrase for 2024?

[Elizabeth Warren]

I care.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Come on, about what, though?

[Elizabeth Warren]

But he does.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You need a noun at the end to build the wall. On his website, it just says finish the job. But. But what's. What's the job because I've left public restrooms and I'm like, I just finished the job.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So here's the deal. We may not be the best at messaging, and I don't pretend to be one of the people who comes up with the cute catchphrase, but it really is the case. The stuff touches people's lives.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, 100%.

[Elizabeth Warren]

But I want to push back on this. I understand catchphrases matter, but half of America has lost access to a constitutional right to have access to abortion. It's been taken away from them. And here's the deal. Somewhere around 70% of America still wants that right. And when people start to organize, they actually make something happen. So about a year and a half ago, Kansas, the state legislature says, this is it. We're going to ban abortion. Nobody's going to get abortion. It's just horrible. And people in Kansas get together and they say, wait, we don't have to put up with this. They didn't have a catchphrase. They didn't have anything except each other. But they cared about an issue. They cared about governance. And ultimately, that's how democracy has to work. It has to be about the function, not the show.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I think it's both. I really do think it's both. And let me give you an example. Okay, Infrastructure bill. I know Trump would go in and he'd hit that stage and he'd be like, these potholes. Fuck the potholes. And be like, I fucking hate these potholes. And it should have been just. He would run the bill and he'd just call it, fill the holes. And you'd be like, yeah, we should fill these potholes. When it comes to any piece of legislation, I would argue in the digital age, messaging is actually more important than governing. What people think you do is actually more important than what you actually do. Ten years ago, Donald J. Trump came down the escalator doing the prom wave, right? And he just descended from hell. Why, after 10 years, have the Democrats been unable to out message Donald J. Trump?

[Elizabeth Warren]

We do substance. He does message. And I get it. Message is important. If you're going to ask me to argue with you about it, I'm not.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I think that message is important, but I gotta say this.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Help us. Message better. Help. Help. Absolutely.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm gonna pitch.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I'm here. I'm ready, I'm ready.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Great. Because I came prepped. Okay, let me give you a messaging example that hits close to home. So you are promoting the new IRS free file website, direct file.gov, direct file.gov being piloted in 12 states, right?

[Elizabeth Warren]

This is where people can go.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Warren]

To file their taxes directly with the government. They don't have to spend nine hours and 150 bucks like most people do across the country to pay TurboTax. Instead, they can do this directly with the federal government. Federal government works for you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Love that.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Good.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Small problem. Okay, Senator Warren.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Even Direct File sounds confusing. Let me just give you some pitches for better URLs that are way better than direct file.gov.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay? Direct file.gov where anybody could go right now, choose are eligible and file and file for free. Save your money. Don't pay TurboTax.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do not pay TurboTax. Okay, anybody watching this, do not pay TurboTax. You can go to direct file.gov yeah. Direct file.irs.gov direct file.irs.gov this is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm talking about. This is the messaging failure. Let's get right to it. These are four pictures. You give me a thumbs up or thumbs down. Okay? I work for your staff. I'm trying to make it work for the American people.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I always do my taxes at the last minute. I'm so sorry, Professor Warren, but how about we go with, oh, fuck, I gotta do my taxes.irs.gov not quite.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Not quite.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, how about this one for the cheapskates? Hey, I bootlegged turbotax.gov.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I think we still need to work on that. I don't think we need to do that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, how about Abbot Gov? Everybody loves that shit. Yeah, people love Abbott Elementary. All right, I'm telling you, this next one is really going to win. I'm going to be for any the youth vote. Ceasefire.gov.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, there we go.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And not temporary humanitarian aid. Pause.gov.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I'M talking.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no, no. For real this time. Ceasefire.gov. yeah, you'll win Michigan with that.

[Elizabeth Warren]

There we go.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you know what a thirst trap is? Okay, so a thirst trap is when you're at home, sometimes you're laying in bed. Instead of, like, leaning over and kissing your beloved, you're scrolling through the Instagram discovery page. And then I'll see Anil Kapoor's Instagram and he'll be shirtless and he'll be like, look at my body transformation. Click here to see more. Okay, I'll see more. And then it'll take me to his OnlyFan page. And then I'll be like, all right, 50 bucks a month. I get to see more exclusive content I think for direct file.gov, the government should have governmental thirst traps on your Instagram page, on other senatorial Instagram pages. So you might be lying in bed and it'll be like, hey, do you wanna see Chuck Grassley in a wet tank top, pull a cork out of a wine bottle and be like, well, I haven't seen that. And then you click on that and then it takes you to directfile.gov and you're like, well, my pants are down and I gotta do my taxes.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, it's a thought. It's a thought.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, It'll just be, you know, do you want to see Mitt Romney hold a plank for a whole minute? I'd be like, that'd be kind of hot.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I did that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you want to see Mitch McConnell's whale tail? You'd be like, well, his pants are sagging. And then now I'm in. I'm not.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I hear you. I hear you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

There is never underestimate the moral depravity and ratchetry of the American public.

[Elizabeth Warren]

But the key is people understand direct file.irs data secure. You will save money. And you know what? That's a good thing. And think what you can do with the money you saved.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You can go to Anil Kapoor's onlyfans.

[Elizabeth Warren]

There you go.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's only 50 bucks a month for exclusive content.

[Elizabeth Warren]

There you go. Going to directfile.irs.gov would give you at least two and a half months.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, let's pivot away from messaging. Let's talk about what millennial voters and Gen Z voters can look forward to.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

One of the things that I think is the most amazing part of your career, you have clearly defined what too rich is in this country. You identified the billionaire class. What is too old. What is the billionaire class for age when it comes to the age of our politicians and members of Congress and Senate?

[Elizabeth Warren]

So I think there is a too old, but I don't think it's measured in age. I mean, years. I think it's measured in do. I think that laws and government should be all about protecting those who've already got it, or it should be. We made it. But you gotta put a big chunk into investing in the future so that the next person who comes along can make it in the next person and the next person. And to me, when I sit in the Senate, that's where I see the division.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It is about merit and it's about mental acuity. Not all 70 fives are created equal.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm 38.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Not all 25s are created equal.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Bingo. You, you're 74. You are sharp as attack. You're acute. You can yak on mofos in these Senate hearings. It's all there. My dad is 72 and can't plug in a router.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, now call more.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Furthermore, I'm 38 and I have the mental acuity of a 10 year old. I don't know the difference between a W2 and a W9. I don't know how many dependents to even list. When I file my taxes, I see it as an emotional dependent thing. So I'll just go 9 to 10. Even though that's not true. Let's talk about the mental acute 74 year olds. There's you. Okay. There's Martin Scorsese.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Good.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's it.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Now, come on, Senator Warren.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Chuck Grassley's 90 years old. I think if you stay in the Senate or the House after, let's say age 70, your age should be the percent that you pay in income tax. So Chuck Grassley's 90%. He should pay a 90% federal income tax.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Did you know, actually, there was a time in America back in the 1950s and 60s where the marginal tax rate was 90% on millionaires? Did you know that?

[Hasan Minhaj]

There was also something you said about like the 70s, the 80s. It was also during Reagan. It was at something.

[Elizabeth Warren]

70S. Yeah. So much, much higher. That's right. That's right. Yeah. There's been a race to. How much can we give away to the people who are already rich?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'll give you this, okay? One of the benefits of President Biden being the president is that we don't have to argue about whether or not he can drive. We don't have to fight with him over the driver's license. No one has to go. Let me drive home. This is. If I saw him driving, I'd call the cops.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Now, look, I know you want to have fun here, but I just got to tell you this. I talk to the man, okay? And the man is sharp. The man knows what he's talking about. He does the job. I think people ask about age. They've got every right. Look, voters can ask about anything they want. They can make any decisions based on anything they want. That's the deal. It's a sharpness and a pointedness about what he is trying to accomplish. And to me, I get it. It's like messaging. You can have other issues you want to look at, but the heart of it is what does he deliver? And he is delivering. He's delivering for young people. He's delivering for people who are trying to build a future. And he's doing it in a real and tangible way. And I think that matters. And that's why I'll get out there and fight for him.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Congress is now more representative of the public. What I mean by that, there's more women than ever that have now taken positions in government. There are more minorities in the House and the Senate than ever before.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Never before.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Should that be reflected in age as well. The median age of this country is 39. Some of our members of government are over double my age. I mean, I think Chuck Grassley's kids have probably retired at this point. He's not even legislating at this point. He's haunting.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So I think you are right that we do need a diversity of perspectives, and that includes age.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And I want folks my age to actually think you can go into government.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Exactly.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Versus getting a job at Goldman or versus getting banking.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You've got it exactly right. And that really is the point. You can come in now. You can come in young. Look at Maxwell Frost. Right. People who have just come in who are very young. We're bringing people into the Senate now who are still in their 30s. Right. Starting this process through. But that's the thing. It doesn't happen if you don't come and do it. So I'm excited to be able to support people who are young. Our mayor of Boston, Michelle Wu, was my student, and she is in her 30s, and she is running and doing a fabulous job running one of America's premier cities. We can spot those places. There aren't as many as there should be, but the only way there'll be more is if people get out and say, you know what? I'm going to give it a try. I'm going to throw my feet in there and I'm going to make it happen.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, let's talk about congressional stock ownership.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. You have been very passionate about punishing financial crimes. I mean, we had the dunk montage that we just saw. How do you feel? This is just a feeling question. When you see a colleague like Bob Menendez out here collecting rubies, gold coins, like he's a freaking pirate, how do you feel about this? Or when members of Congress are making more from stock trading than they are from their government salary.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How do you feel about that?

[Elizabeth Warren]

I feel betrayed.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I feel like there is a difference between public service, which means you just don't do that, and people who want to get out and maximize their wealth. Okay, fine. You want to take a job where you can get paid huge amounts of money, that's fine. But that is not public service. You make the decision that you are in one place or the other. It's not a vow of poverty. Senators get paid well. Representatives get paid well. Some people do it after they've had careers, after they've saved money. But at the end of the day, if you want to be in public service, in my view, you don't buy stock, you don't sell stock, you don't own stock, you don't take side gigs. We're done. You live on that salary, and that's what you get. Period.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you don't hold any private stock?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Nope. Nope.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No Fang, no Netflix, no Apple, no. No Google.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I have some money in an index fund, a mutual fund, which means you can't affect it. Not yet. Exactly. I'm done. I'm done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Got it. And by the way, to give you credit, you co sponsored the bipartisan ban on congressional stock ownership.

[Elizabeth Warren]

That's. And I was just going to say it ought to be the law. It's not just a question of, oh, I want to be more moral than everyone else. No, I want that to be the law.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, when I read that act, by the way, I was like, ban on congressional stock ownership. Act, like, that's almost like, ban on owning exotic animals. How is this even allowed?

[Elizabeth Warren]

How is this even a thing? That is exactly the right question. How is it even allowed that someone can sit on a committee in Congress, get inside information and go trade stocks?

[Hasan Minhaj]

So what's it like battling your own team on this issue?

[Elizabeth Warren]

It's tough, but you don't get what you don't fight for. And my view on this one is we need to do this. And if there are Democrats who are opposed to it, it doesn't change the fact that we still need to do it. There are Republicans. I want to say on this one, I've had some bipartisan success. There are some Republicans who are in favor of doing this. But the answer should be, same rule for all of us. No stock trading, no stock buying, no stock selling. If you want to have some money in the stock market, put it in an index fund where you can have no influence over it, and we're done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

As we turn the corner here, I want to end with a philosophical question, okay? Because you're also, as I know you're a spiritual person. I'm a spiritual person. I do believe in God. I try to be the best person I could possibly be. I want to see the pearly gates. There are many ways to climb up that mountain. But one of the things I thought deeply about is, and I want to say it you, I'm actually kind of glad that you did not become President because I don't know how President Elizabeth Warren could have been able to stay Elizabeth Warren. And what I mean by that is I don't know if the president can be a good person. Person wanting to be president means you have to be willing to deport people, assassinate people, fund military juntas, overthrow governments. You have to be cool with dropping a nuclear weapon on a civilian population if it comes to that. How can a progressive president keep their heart pure when they have to wield the threat of force? Because I believe the paradox of the presidency is how do you scale empathy?

[Elizabeth Warren]

It's a hard question and I take it seriously.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And by the way, there's no right or wrong. It really is a philosophical question.

[Elizabeth Warren]

And I take it seriously even in the more limited role as a senator because it's a position of responsibility. I have to vote more than once on bills that have mashed things together that have things in it I hate and things in it I love. And how do you vote? Do you vote against the things you hate or do you vote in favor of the things you love? Because they're going to move together. You're either going to get both or you're going to get none. So the same conflict is there all the time.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And it's the scale of it though, Senator, I'll give you an example just with my own Indian wedding and you know this. Oh, okay. With my wedding, I had to cut people out. I had to be pro Muslim banned. There was a lot of stuff I had to do to accomplish the Bina and Hasan wedding. And I felt like shit and I had to do it. Now scale that for a country of 300 plus million people. It's going to get ugly.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, but listen to your last line. You talked about what you did and notice how you ended it. You said, and it felt like shit, at least that means there's a moral center in there somewhere where you knew the difference. And I feel better when I know that someone is making decisions that even if they're hard and I don't agree with every part of them and there's some really awful pieces to it. I want somebody who at their heart, won't go there. Really feels. Yeah, won't go there.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's interesting because as you climb that mountain, I feel like show business and politics is the same thing. You keep climbing, but you get to that part of the mountain and you're like, puffy's here and I'm not gonna go to the room with him. You get to that point, the presidency opens a lot of those, let's call them, those Puff Daddy doors, where you're just like, shit's about to go wild here. Every president in my lifetime goes into office a sociopath and then leaves a war criminal. And then on the back end of it, they just end up painting or podcasting. What's the benefit to your soul? To your soul? Because we get one ride, we get one merry go round.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah. But the merry go round has got to be, think you did your best.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm sorry, there's no right. There's no right answer.

[Elizabeth Warren]

There's no way. When the question became, would I run for the Senate? I didn't have any ambition to be in politics, but I asked myself the question, the one that actually put it to me right at the end. Remember, I'd been in Washington. I'd set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau for President Obama. I come back, I'm going back to teaching, and people say, oh, you should run for Senate against this Republican, had the scene, who was very popular. And the question I ask myself is, how would I feel if I didn't try? And not trying is not okay. If you think the fight is important, you don't get to back up and say, you know what, it could cost me a lot to do this. I could make a lot of mistakes. I could get things wrong. I could have a lot of painful moments in this, but damn, there are some things you have to say. I'm just going to try anyway. And I think that's what happens in elected office.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you're built for the smoke. Yeah, I'm not.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yes, you are.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, I'm really not. Let's end with something fun.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay? Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Senator Warren, your reputation as an enforcer wasn't just in the Senate. It started way back at Harvard. You have a reputation of being a hard nosed professor. If someone did not come correct when they came to class, you were like J.K. simmons and Whiplash. You would roast them. You were a professor of bankruptcy law.

[Elizabeth Warren]

That's right. Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you remind me a little bit of this teacher that we had at Davis High. Her name was Mrs. Moldenhauer. She taught calculus BC.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Whoa.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. So she was a super tough teacher. And if you were in her class, kids would wear these T shirts that say, I survived Moldy. And I'm gonna see if you really are the Mrs. Moldy of bankruptcy law. Okay, so this is a bankruptcy law qu. Question one.

[Elizabeth Warren]

All right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Which courts handle bankruptcy cases? State courts or federal courts?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Federal courts.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That is correct. Here's a question I got wrong on Celebrity Jeopardy. Okay, now for context, this brought tremendous shame to me and my family.

[Elizabeth Warren]

What would you like to wager with your father watching?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's go 7,000. Okay.

[Elizabeth Warren]

A true daily double. Wow. Here's your clue.

[Hasan Minhaj]

A chapter no one ever wants to read. This one is often called a reorganization. Bankruptcy. Like J.C. penney in 2020.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Chapter 11.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Ah, you didn't say it as a question.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You did not say chapter 11 is what?

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, it's. What is chapter 11?

[Elizabeth Warren]

What's chapter 11? What is chapter 11?

[Hasan Minhaj]

That was the daily double. I bet everything.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, God.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you just went bankrupt?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Dare I say, do you go chapter 11? Chapter 7. Did you have to liquidate or was that chapter 11?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Chapter 7 would be liquidation. Chapter 11, you get to reorganize.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, so you just got Chapter seven.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I did. I did. I wiped out this Hypothetical Jeopardy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Question. All right, if you were my professor, what grade would you give me for this interview?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Hmm. Well, I would say there was creativity shown.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Warren]

A little concern about some of the details that were not in the material that was covered in the course. But I think right there at the end, you pulled it out with an A. Great. You bet.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Great. Senator Warren, thank you so much. This was so much fun.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Thank you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Thank you. I really enjoyed my conversation with Senator Elizabeth Warren. Now Remember, go to directfile.irs.gov to file your taxes for free. And to be clear, Anil Kapoor does not have an Onlyfans page. But he should. Wow. Only 67. Until next time. I'm Hassa Minhaj, and I doesn't know.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Hurry right away. No delay Stopping.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Make your daddy glad to have had.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Such a land failure, sweetheart. Possible.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Fine.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Be proud.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Our boys in line.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Over. Hurry right away. No delay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Stop.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Dave.