Fascist Fashion with Tan France

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know" – Fascist Fashion with Tan France

Podcast: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know
Host: Hussain Najmi (fictional name for Hasan Minhaj in this context)
Guest: Tan France
Release Date: July 8, 2026

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Main Theme:

In this lively and irreverent episode, Hasan Minhaj sits down with fashion icon and TV personality Tan France for a conversation that careens from the fashion choices of world dictators to deeply personal ruminations on racism, representation, and South Asian identity. With signature humor but a willingness to get serious, Tan and Hasan explore how clothes tell stories—good, bad, and sometimes outright fascist. Along the way, they debate the elitism of fashion, reflect on body image taboos, compare UK and US cultures, and share behind-the-scenes moments from their personal and professional journeys.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Dictator Fashion – Sartorial Roast

Segment: 02:21 – 05:00

• Hasan and Tan rate the style of infamous world leaders—Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, Muammar Gaddafi, and Pol Pot—strictly from a fashion sense, not politics.

  • Kim Jong Un:
    • Tan France: “I hate to say, his jackets always fit well ... The other guy's crushing the look.” [02:32]
  • Vladimir Putin:
    • Tan France: “Take away that jacket, and I like that he went for a roll neck. But the jacket is a lot.” [02:54]
    • Notes the excess of fur, suede, exposed zippers, patch pockets, and shearling as "too much."
  • Gaddafi:
    • Hasan Minhaj: “Bad dude. Okay, hot take. Not a great guy ... Style fucking icon. Bam.” [03:09]
    • Tan France (droll): “Are you struggling with sight? Because that outfit's hideous ... It looks so badly made. It looks like it's from Shein.” [03:30]
    • On Gaddafi’s bolder looks: “I'm not mad at the pin. The pin's nice ... The fact that he went for a full ensemble, I'm so impressed with this guy ... He's the boldest man on the planet.” [04:00]
  • Pol Pot:
    • Tan France (laughing): “Bitch stole my look. His hair's done well, the cut of that suit is perfect.” [04:38]
    • The irony of admiring the fit, while both agree he's "not a good dude."

Notable Quote:
Tan France: “I'm so the anti-cool that I don't register what is cool and I don't care. And if I see someone trying to be cool, I just think, you couldn't be less cool to me.” [16:48]

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2. Fashion, Identity & "Cool" – Is Fashion Elitist?

Segment: 07:51 – 17:11

• Tan on growing up in a strict South Asian household in the UK:
  • Forced to code-switch: “They wanted us to live the Asian life at home but be successful in the UK ... When we were out of the house, we called our parents mum and dad. … We wouldn't get work, we wouldn't see success if we were not speaking Queen's English.” [06:51]
• On fashion accessibility:
  • Tan France: “If you can't dress well cheaply, you can't dress well. You have no style. … I want to show you that you should be able to do this, because I felt so excluded as a kid, thinking ... if you haven't got $10,000, you can't look nice. Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.” [10:15–11:03]
  • Shares a story of going to a Netflix event in a $75 Primark suit and no one noticed.
• The meaning of fashion as self-expression:
  • “It’s how I’m communicating to whoever sees me. … Fashion is the easiest, quickest way to express who you are.” [11:09–11:58]
• Debates societal pressures about being “cool”:
  • Hasan jokes about outgrowing the need to be cool; Tan retorts, “Just be okay with being into stamps. ... If you enjoy it, enjoy it. So the answer is I don't know because I don't know what cool is. I think what I do is cool enough for me.” [16:48–17:11]

Notable Quote:
Tan France: “If you can't dress well cheaply, you can't dress well. You have no style.” [10:15]

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3. Race, Representation, and Cultural Contexts

Segment: 05:44 – 07:39, 23:34 – 29:00, 34:41 – 39:08

• Tan’s memoir and experiences with racism in the UK:
  • “I knew from a very young age this isn’t home. Home should be safe. We’re not safe here, so this can’t be our home.” [05:44]
  • Tells stories of childhood violence, and the slur “Paki” being used even after his success on Queer Eye: “What the fuck is this? ... It takes you right back and you feel physically sick.” [28:13]
• Emigration to the US:
  • “Even if they were racist, they didn’t know how to be racist towards me ... I know that sounds really lame to want that, but I’ll take that.” [05:57, repeated 27:08]
  • Finds belonging in Salt Lake City, appreciating the curiosity and lack of prejudice he felt compared to England: “They just see me as a person. … That really made me feel something because I’d never felt that in England.” [29:34]
• Colorism and the BBC documentary "Beauty and the Bleach":
  • “It’s just as bad today as it’s always been. We just did a much better job of hiding it ... it’s still there, we just found a way to hide it.” [24:00]
• South Asian & British media representation:
  • Tan France: “Every time I saw one of those things, I felt such relief, thinking, okay, there is a space for us. ... Your take is very interesting … but I will give you that we did have a couple, and every time I saw them, I just thought, I love that we’re making headway.” [36:04–36:30]

Notable Quotes:
Tan France: “I knew from a very young age this isn’t home. … I will never feel safe [in the UK].” [25:08, 25:23]
Tan France: “Even if they were racist, they didn’t know how to be racist towards me.” [27:08]

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4. Fashion Cycles, Fast Fashion, and Ethics

Segment: 14:11 – 19:46

• On rapidly changing fashion cycles:
  • “It used to be roughly 20 years. It’s going to come back … now it’s 10 years. … We will be encouraged to wear skinny jeans again.” [14:16–14:31]
• Attitude toward “dressing the year you were last cool”:
  • “I don’t mind if you stick with a look, even if it’s the 80s ... If you’re really committing to the bit, I respect that so greatly.” [15:18]
• On the ethics of fast fashion:
  • Tan France: “No, I don't think there's anything you could show people to get them to change their spending when it comes to fashion ... We've almost dehumanized them because they're not us in the West ... If it was my fellow country person, ... I'm more inclined to give you a donation as opposed to that person.” [17:55–19:46]

Notable Quote:
Tan France: “We've almost dehumanized them because they're not us in the West.” [17:55]

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5. UK vs USA: Grocery Stores, Debt, and Brunch

Segment: 40:54 – 46:59

• Supermarket Culture Shock:
  • Tan France: “I just find it so bizarre that you have a cereal aisle ... There's a bread aisle for fake bread. Like, it's not real bread.” [41:33]
  • UK stores are smaller, less selection; family visiting Utah visits grocery stores for the novelty. [42:05]
• On the American obsession with debt:
  • “I was raised in a family where we weren't allowed credit. ... So when I was younger, if I couldn't afford something, I couldn't afford something.” [43:29]
  • Critiques buying luxury items on credit: “If you need it, ... you have had to run up some debt. But when it's for just frivolous stuff...” [44:54]
• Brunch, timing, and meal labels:
  • Tan France (adamant): “Americans wanting to go for brunch at 2 or 3—no, that’s lunch ... That’s ludicrous.” [45:33]
  • Hasan Minhaj (protesting): “Why do we have to have labels about this? In South Asian communities, we eat dinner late. … Some people are like, this is late night. I’m like, this is dinner.” [46:02]
  • Friendly back-and-forth over meal semantics blends humor with cultural difference.

Memorable Moment:
Tan France: “You don't get to decide what you call that meal just because you woke up late!” [46:18]

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6. Grooming Taboo & the South Asian Body

Segment: 46:59 – 50:53

• Body hair and hotel bathroom controversy:
  • Hasan Minhaj: “I recently caught a lot of flack ... about trimming my body hair at hotels. … The same way the United States treats its foreign policy in other countries. I’ll go in there, I’ll fuck some shit up, and then I’ll walk out …” [46:59]
  • Tan France (confesses): “I do exactly the same. I never trim my own body hair in my own home.” [47:39]
  • Both admit to cleaning up, tipping the staff, but blame societal misunderstanding for the shaming: “Whoever’s saying this is wrong, go fuck yourself. … You don’t know what it’s like to deal with the body hair we have.” [49:18]
• Liberation and camaraderie: Both embrace their grooming habits and defend them against the haters—ending with affectionate, tongue-in-cheek affirmations:
  • Tan France: “You’re a chic bitch.” [50:54]
  • Hasan Minhaj: “Thank you. I love you.” [50:57]

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7. Acting, Collaboration, and Media Milestones

Segment: 33:09 – 39:08

• Tan’s move into acting (Delhi Boyz):
  • Hasan Minhaj: “In Delhi Boy Season 1 and 2, dare I say, you are unleashing your internal bag open. You are an absolute lunatic on camera.”
  • Tan France: “I channelled my brother ... He was a real tough guy.” [33:31]
• On South Asian media’s growth:
  • Discussion of UK’s “Goodness Gracious Me,” and contrasts in British and American South Asian representation.
  • Tan France: “Every Asian sat down prime time television. … It was the only show like it and the only one we’d ever seen where we weren’t just ... pushing a stereotype.” [38:21]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dictator fashion hot takes: 02:21 – 05:00
• Tan’s story: Racism in the UK and move to America: 05:44 – 07:39, 23:34 – 29:00
• Is fashion elitist? Style on a budget: 08:13 – 11:03
• Fashion as self-expression and the perils of “cool”: 11:58 – 17:11
• Cycles of fashion & fast fashion ethics: 14:16 – 19:46
• South Asian and British representation in media: 34:41 – 39:08
• UK–US culture clash (grocery stores/debt): 40:54 – 46:59
• Brunch controversy: 45:31 – 46:59
• Body hair taboos and grooming confessions: 46:59 – 50:53

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Notable Quotes

• Tan France: “If you can't dress well cheaply, you can't dress well. You have no style.” [10:15]
• Tan France: “I knew from a very young age this isn't home. Home should be safe. We're not safe here, so this can't be our home.” [05:44, 25:08]
• Tan France: “We've almost dehumanized them because they're not us in the West.” [17:55]
• Tan France: “You don't get to decide what you call that meal just because you woke up late!” [46:18]
• Tan France: “You’re a chic bitch.” [50:54]
• Tan France: “Every Asian sat down prime time television … We all watched [Goodness Gracious Me] at 8 o'clock at night.” [38:21]

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Memorable Moments

• The lighthearted but biting roast of dictator outfits sets the tone for an episode that’s irreverently smart.
• Both Tan and Hasan bond over their South Asian body hair grooming confessions, bringing levity to a rarely-discussed topic.
• Candid discussion of enduring racism in the UK and the unexpected comfort Tan found in Utah, USA.

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Overall Tone and Takeaway

This episode of "Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know" is both playful and profound. Hasan and Tan blend humor, cultural critique, and vulnerability with rapid-fire wit, from the politics of fashion (literal and figurative) to navigating dual identities and breaking industry stereotypes. The result is a rich, relatable, and hilarious take on the intersection of style, identity, and belonging—highlighted by memorable quips and a mutual refusal to ever, ever be “cool” on someone else’s terms.

Transcript

[Tan France]

Lemonade.

[Hussain Najmi]

Lawmakers are fighting to stop the Trump administration's dismantling of a $386 million ocean observatory project. This project has been collecting data on ocean circulation, marine ecosystems, and extreme weather patterns for the last decade. Donald Trump wants to scale back the initiative by 55%, removing many of the system's instruments, leaving coastal communities vulnerable and impacting our ability to monitor El Nino. Just another day in paradise, folks. I read about this farce On Ground News, HMDK's favorite independent news platform. Ground News shows a breakdown of publications reporting on a story in which way each tends to lean politically. It's not about completely eliminating bias. We all have our biases. But Ground News helps us see more of the whole picture, making us more informed consumers of the news. I was not surprised to see that very few right leaning publications were reporting on the story. Dare I say it's because it makes Donald Trump look like a bumbling oaf. But hey, that's just my interpretation. Let's let's cut through the noise together. Go to groundnews.com hussan to subscribe and get 40% off the unlimited Access Vantage plan, which breaks down to just five bucks a month with my discount. That's groundnews.comhusn picture this. You're finally taking time to clean out your gutters. Not fun, but hey, good for you. Your elbow's deep in soggy leaves. And then suddenly the smoke alarm starts blaring from inside. Smoke pours out the window. What do you do? ADTs do it yourself systems are built for those moments in your life when everything turns on a D. They're affordable, easy to set up, and the ADT plus app keeps you in control 24. 7 from virtually anywhere. Tackle your to do list knowing that your home is protected. When every second Counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT ASAP. You get asked about celebrity fashion all the time. You get asked about fashion in regards to heterosexual men. You get asked about fashion on the Runway. One of the things you don't get asked about is the fashion choices of the dictator and despots that shape society. Oh Tan, I'd love your fashion takes on some of the world's greatest despots and dictators. Let's do it. So let's take a look at this first one. This is Kim Jong Un in Xi Jinping.

[Tan France]

My public is going to hate what I'm about to say purely based on what they are wearing, their tutorial choices Dictator fashion. There are their sartorial choices exclusively?

[Hussain Najmi]

Yes.

[Tan France]

Kim Jong, the Supreme Leader. I hate to say his jackets always fit well. He's wearing a military style Nehru jacket in a really good fit. So it skims his body really well. In stark contrast. His is bad. His is not a good look. The other guy's crushing the look.

[Hussain Najmi]

All right, let's look at our next dictator. Let's look at Vladimir Putin.

[Tan France]

The jacket is a lot. Take away that jacket. And I like that he went for a roll neck.

[Hussain Najmi]

Is it the fur and the suede

[Tan France]

and the exposed zipper and the patch pockets and the shearling on the neck and the sleeve. It's everything.

[Hussain Najmi]

There is someone I've been obsessed with ever since the Patriot Act. Yes, I was obsessed with the Libyan dictator, Moammar Gaddafi. Bad dude. Okay, hot take. Not a great guy.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

He shot a civilian airline out of the sky. Not great. That being said, style fucking icon. Bam.

[Tan France]

Are you struggling with sight? Because that outfit's hideous.

[Hussain Najmi]

What are you talking about?

[Tan France]

The outfit's hideous. It looks so badly made. It looks like it's from Shein.

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay.

[Tan France]

How dare you?

[Hussain Najmi]

Let's take a look at. Look two. Bam. Bam.

[Tan France]

Okay, you know what? This is. It is.

[Hussain Najmi]

This is it.

[Tan France]

It's very bold. I'm not mad at the pin. The pin's nice.

[Hussain Najmi]

This is the NAACP Awards meets the UN Security Council.

[Tan France]

The fact that he went for a full ensemble, I'm so impressed with this guy.

[Hussain Najmi]

So are you understanding why I'm so deeply fascinated about his fashion choices?

[Tan France]

He's the boldest man on the planet. I really, really, really like this look.

[Hussain Najmi]

Is it the general thing? Because I know with a lot of Pakistanis, they love the general look.

[Tan France]

I think I like the general look. The jacket fits in a really impressive way. Like, it is so well cut for this man.

[Hussain Najmi]

There's one dictator who I'm pretty sure you're going to connect with sartorially. This is Pol Pot.

[Tan France]

Who?

[Hussain Najmi]

Kind of a genocidal maniac that killed a lot of his own civilians. Bad.

[Tan France]

Bad.

[Hussain Najmi]

Not a good dude.

[Tan France]

But he's wearing my lock. Bitch stole my lock. His hair's done well. The cut of that suit is perfect.

[Hussain Najmi]

I can hear your publicist sweating in the other room, by the way.

[Tan France]

She's fine.

[Hussain Najmi]

If you were a fan of Patriot act, you might remember a behind the scenes video tan France and I made where he queer eyed me and called me out for trying to look cool.

[Tan France]

Do you feel like it makes you look dweeby?

[Hussain Najmi]

I look like a dweeby yeah.

[Tan France]

Who cares?

[Hussain Najmi]

So, yeah, I just.

[Tan France]

Who cares if you look a bit dweeby? What do you mean? Is being cool super important to you?

[Hussain Najmi]

Yes.

[Tan France]

Really? Yeah. Why? Are we too old for that shit?

[Hussain Najmi]

What do you mean? Now I have grown up since then and I've stopped trying to be cool. I'm still cool, but now it's just an accident, I swear. Obviously, Tan France is best known for his fashion taste and amazing British accent. But his life story, which he wrote about in his 2019 memoir, Naturally Tan, it's really fascinating. I mean, he's an openly gay Muslim with Pakistani parents, fled the UK because of extreme racism there, and then moved to Salt Lake City, where he's lived the past two decades. So I sat down with Tan to talk about racism in the uk, which I don't know if you've heard, it's pretty bad.

[Tan France]

I knew from a very young age this isn't home. Home should be safe. We're not safe here, so this can't be our home.

[Hussain Najmi]

And why he chose to flee to America, even though I don't know if you've also heard this, racism is pretty bad here too.

[Tan France]

Even if they were racist, they didn't know how to be racist towards me. And I know that sounds really lame to want that. I. I'll take that. And you thinking I want to fucking call him something. Where the fuck is he from? I don't know how to hurt him as opposed to. I know exactly what to say, you dirty.

[Hussain Najmi]

And then we pivot from racism to some really heavy, important topics like body hair and how our strategy of trimming in hotel bathrooms has made us shunned by society.

[Tan France]

I thought everyone does that. Is it just us?

[Hussain Najmi]

It's us. It's just us. Oh, don't you dare come for us in the comments unless you have visible hair on your knuckles. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, you've been asking the one, the only, Mr. Tan France. Let's go.

[Tan France]

Thank you.

[Hussain Najmi]

So this is going to be so fun. This is. This is. It's just pure fun. Fuck, yeah, Hassan.

[Tan France]

My family were really, really, really, really Asian. Like, like so Asian. And so we were really particular about how everything was done. And. And they didn't want us to be super Asian. They wanted us to live the Asian life at home but be successful in the uk. And I don't know what life is like for Asian Americans, but for us, it was a case of, we want you to be the most Pakistani at home, but when you leave this house, you will speak in a really Perfect English accent. No regional stuff. So I have a. People make fun online a lot of my accent, because it doesn't sound like a Yorkshire accent. It's a very neutral accent. That was by design. So when we were out of the house, we called our parents mum and dad. Right. We didn't call them Abu and Ami. It just was not a thing they really wanted.

[Hussain Najmi]

The moment the door opens, you're like, mom.

[Tan France]

Mom.

[Hussain Najmi]

What?

[Tan France]

Oh, yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay.

[Tan France]

Oh, yeah. They wanted us. I know that that sounds crazy.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

But they knew how England works. We wouldn't get work, we wouldn't see success if we were not speaking Queen's English.

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay.

[Tan France]

I know that sounds nuts, but she was right. I wouldn't be sat here. I wouldn't be. There's no way I'd be on TV if I was like, listen, let's go to the park in it. Like that just. It wouldn't happen. That would not happen.

[Hussain Najmi]

You'd be on man, like Mulbidant. You wouldn't be.

[Tan France]

Exactly. That's exactly it.

[Hussain Najmi]

I want your thoughts on this. A lot of times people say fashion is for rich people. Kind of like when you hear the sentence, we bought this home in all cash. What are your thoughts on the critique that people think that fashion is elitist?

[Tan France]

It depends on your idea of fashion.

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay.

[Tan France]

If you think fashion is just the Runway, then, yeah, absolutely, it's elitist. But if you see fashion as more style than just the hottest trend, I don't think it's elitist. I think I have said this before. I'm going to say it again. If you can't dress well cheaply, you can't dress well. You have no style. If you can't dress well cheaply, if you're relying on. You know how. I don't know if you might. You may also do this. I don't do this. When you work with a stylist, they will say, do you want to wear look 12 from the YSL show? And you're wearing it head to toe. That is. I know it's a stylist job, but they're not having to restyle anything. They're just taking very expensive clothes and wearing them the way that they're shown on the Runway. But if you had a $200 budget and you had a red carpet or an event.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

And if you nail it, I respect that so much more than I ever would. You just pulled a lot of room.

[Hussain Najmi]

Why isn't that a thing? Why isn't that a thing? That the thing you just introduced the idea of, like, this person went on ebay, they pulled the entire look between a garage sale, grailed ebay and thrifting, and it looks incredible. I think that's. That would be such a. Such a. I would love Flex.

[Tan France]

I would have loved.

[Hussain Najmi]

Of taste and discernment.

[Tan France]

I couldn't agree more. I would have loved that. As a kid, watching people on the red carpet thinking you did that yourself, like, you put that together, I'd be so impressed. When I first started on Netflix, I did a few red carpets, and I refused to use their stylist. They give you a stylist budget, and I refused to use a stylist. I was like, I'm going to wear what I want to wear. Do you know what Primark is?

[Hussain Najmi]

I have no idea what you say.

[Tan France]

It's kind of like a. Kind of like a Forever 21 situation.

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay.

[Tan France]

Really inexpensive, fast fashion. I'm not encouraging anyone shop Primark, but it was a really inexpensive suit. And I wanted to see if anyone would know the difference between me and anyone else on the red carpet was on a. In a suit. And so I bought just this nice, simple suit. Not nice suit, simple soup that was about $75, not. Not more than $75. Got it tailored for less than $50, and then went on that red carpet. And I was asked so many times, gosh, where did you get your suit from? Gosh, that's a lovely suit. Where do you get your suit from? And I said, this is a suit that cost me less than all this, cost less than $150. I want to show you that you should be able to do this, because I felt so excluded as a kid, thinking, I want to look nice. I care about clothes, and if you haven't got $10,000, you can't look nice. Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

[Hussain Najmi]

What do people mean when they say fashion is a way to express yourself? What do you mean when you say that?

[Tan France]

It might be something very different for you, and maybe it's just me that feels this way. So I'm not speaking for everybody, okay? But it's the message I try and convey. It's my whole career, which is you can choose to just wear something that doesn't feel like you whatsoever. And I'm not saying this about you, but you could just put all black on and think, I've at least put clothes on. I don't feel anything in these clothes. They don't represent me in any way. But I put clothes on for me, as you can see, I always put a look on Even if somebody else hates it. Doesn't matter. It's how I'm communicating to whoever sees me. I really cared about what I was putting on today. And this is the version of me that I would like to present today, which is I've put together. I feel somewhat comfy, casual. I don't feel so uptight that I think fashion is the easiest, quickest way to express who you are.

[Hussain Najmi]

I think for a lot of straight men.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

When they use fashion as a way to express themselves, they can be made fun of for it by that friends, by their friends, by people at school, work, or even their own spouses.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

I'll give an example.

[Tan France]

Bina made fun of you, didn't she? Yes, she did. Great. What did she say?

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay, so look, I used to own a T shirt from the Simpsons. It was a Bartman T shirt.

[Tan France]

Okay.

[Hussain Najmi]

I thought what I was saying was, hey, I'm telling the world I'm silly. I'm a little irreverent, and I love this TV show.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

What she was saying is, this is embarrassing.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

And many people on the Internet have said this about their spouses that wear comic book T shirts or cartoon T shirts. And to that I say, how dare you? Why is that bad?

[Tan France]

I need you to know that this is the truth when I say I don't mind a slogan. Okay, maybe it depends on the slogan, but I don't mind a slogan team. And I don't mind a comic book strip or whatever it is on your T shirt. A picture on your T shirt. Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

Bartman. It was Bartman.

[Tan France]

Bartman, Bartman, Bartman, Bartman.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah. So there's Bart Simpson. Bartman was a sub storyline within the Simpsons. So again, and I mean this legitimately, it was a way to express myself.

[Tan France]

Yeah. Like you really cared about the Simpsons.

[Hussain Najmi]

I really liked the Simpsons. I really liked the Simpsons during this particular era of the Simpsons and this particular character within that era.

[Tan France]

I'm not mad at it. I. I think Bina was wrong.

[Hussain Najmi]

Why do so many white women want to express themselves through a bindi?

[Tan France]

God, that's such a good question. Especially at Coachella. I don't know. I wonder if when they go to the likes of Coachella, they're thinking, I just want to be free. And so I'm going to cosplay as an Indian girl. Cuz they seem free. But I really want to say, you think our people are free? Have you met our parents? And so I think that they have a misunderstanding of what a bindi is or any kind of South Asian clothing.

[Hussain Najmi]

Sure.

[Tan France]

I think that they see it as a sign of freedom and expression and they are definitely confused.

[Hussain Najmi]

How do you think about fashion cycles? For example, jeans had a flare, then they were baggy, then they were skinny, then they were baggy again. We met. When we first met, jeans were skinny, skinny.

[Tan France]

And now they're already skinny jeans. When I met you, so. So it's usually, I'm sure you know, it's usually 20 years. However, social media has encouraged us to move through fashion cycles much quicker than we used to. So it used to be roughly 20 years. It's going to come back. I think now it's 10 years. It's going to come back. Mark my words, within the next two or three years, we will be encouraged to wear skinny jeans again. I can't imagine I'll. I'll do that. I think once we hit a certain age, we've already done that thing. So we learn our lesson. Yeah, I'm assuming.

[Hussain Najmi]

Hey, do you believe in that theory of that everybody dresses in the last year they were cool. For example, my dad still dresses like it's 1993. Now, I would argue he wasn't cool in 1993, but in Najmi's mind, he was cool in 1993.

[Tan France]

No, actually there is somebody I'm thinking of who still dresses the way they always haven't. But they look amazing. I don't mind if you stick with a look, even if it's the 80s. If you stick with a look because it made you feel good and you're still like working it, it's not just a lazy thing, like you're really committing to the bit. Like if your dad is fully committing to the 90s look. And it's not just. It's just easy. They're my clothes, I can put them on. I respect that so greatly.

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay.

[Tan France]

Do you know Justin Theroux personally? You did a movie with him at one point. Do you know him personally?

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah, I don't know personally.

[Tan France]

He's worn the same style for like 15, 20 years. He still wears a skinny jean, which is so not the trend yet. He still looks wicked. And I just think. Yeah, because that's so you. You're not trying to be anybody else. I appreciate it so much. I really do appreciate it so much.

[Hussain Najmi]

What makes something cool?

[Tan France]

I don't know. And I don't care about cool. I've never tried. I know myself. Actually, here's the thing I do know about myself. I know that I should never try to be cool because I know what my life is. I am a mom. I watch my kids most days. I chose to live in Utah. I chose to not go to fancy events or be seen stumbling out of a nightclub. I live the opposite of a cool life. I watch Golden Girls and 30 Rock most nights. That is my idea of a good time.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

So I'm so the anti cool that I don't register what is cool and I don't care. And if I see someone trying to be cool, I just think, you couldn't be less cool to me. Just be okay with being into stamps. I don't care that you're into stamps. Other than that, that's great. If you enjoy it, enjoy it. So the answer is I don't know because I don't know what cool is. I think what I do is cool enough for me.

[Hussain Najmi]

Can I ask about your opinion about something? Just like this is a macro question.

[Tan France]

Go.

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay, so one of the most popular episodes of Patriot act that was on our show was the episode on Fast fashion.

[Tan France]

Oh, okay.

[Hussain Najmi]

Now the episode on Fast Fashion. This is something that has made people mad since the 90s. This is something that if you mention it to people, they will clearly get upset about it. But it's not going away. Kind of like tax evasion or Woody Allen. These things aren't going away, unfortunately. That being said, people are now more and more aware of its environmental impact, how bad it is for both consumers, labor, all of it. Do you think it will ever change?

[Tan France]

No, I don't think there's anything you could show people to get them to change their spending when it comes to fashion. Why is that my opinion? I hate to always make things about race, but sometimes I think it's just appropriate if we were seeing people, let's say Americans, white Americans, because we see documentaries or whatever, or maybe it's just a post about conditions in certain factories or in certain countries that are producing the clothes that are the fast fashion items that people are purchasing. I think that there's such a disconnect with them thinking, well, they're not even like us. Like, that's. We've almost dehumanized them because they're not us in. In the West. They're not. They're not the Americans. They're not the Brits. I think if a person were to see that this was happening across town from them, it's their own people. It's the people that they know from the grocery store, from school. I think that that might be the thing that could encourage them to change their thinking of it. And feel more compassion for those people. But I think that the thought is always, well, there are people so far away. Those people are so far away. Yes, they may be going through absolute health to make my pair of jeans, but that's not a human. I understand. So it doesn't matter. I wish I could come up with a better answer, but that is, when I boil it down, I think that's the reason why. It's because we don't humanize them enough for the. For it to matter to those people.

[Hussain Najmi]

No, that's. That's a very. Yeah, that's a very real point. The dehumanization of kind of labor that's happening over there. The people that are participating. It don't look like me. I don't know anybody like that.

[Tan France]

Yeah, it's like when there's a. A war or conflict and. And you wouldn't. You're less likely to give money or care about them because they're a different race. You don't care that much about the fact that they're Asians that are going through the South. Asians are going through this. They don't look like you, so why care? But if it was my. It was my fellow country person. If it's a white person in America, they're like, oh, I understand your suffering because I'm the same as you, so I'm more inclined to give you a donation as opposed to that person. Enough.

[Hussain Najmi]

We all know about girl dinner, but have you had dad lunch? The. The main course is the crust of a PB and J your child has just desecrated. Dessert is a melted Tootsie Roll that you found under the car seat in a minivan, which is weird because you've never bought Tootsie Rolls, so what is that in your mouth? Things are getting bleak in my Kia Carnival right now. Now, I forgot to eat. I always would forget to eat. I'd feed the kids. I'd get ready for work, and at some point I would realize, oh, my God, I've done eight straight hours of running on cold brew and straight vibes. Now, these days, those are rare for me. Now, thanks to Huel. That. That's H U E L. Huel. Huel is a lifesaver because it's a complete meal in a bottle. No prep, no thinking, just 27 essential vitamins and minerals, 35 grams of protein, and 7 grams of fiber. Because Huel is a complete meal, I don't need to stress about getting nutrients from the floor of my minivan. My protein and fiber goals have never been reached this easy and it keeps me full for hours. Their Ready to drink bottle is my fave. It's the grab and go option and comes out to under five bucks a meal. For even more protein, try the Black Edition powder. It has four 40 grams per serving. Your scavenging days are over. Huel is the swap you need. Get 15% off your first order today with code [e-mail] Hassan15 that's H A S A N 15 thank you to Huell for partnering and supporting our show.

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[Hussain Najmi]

apply for partnering and supporting our show. One of the things that I think you've been able to do in your more contemporary work is talk about your personal upbringing. So you did this BBC documentary in 2022 called Beauty and the Bleach. There was a lot that you talked about that was really profound. Powerful stuff.

[Tan France]

Thanks

[Hussain Najmi]

you talked about skin bleaching and colorism in it.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

What did you learn while you were making that documentary that told the story of us? What did you learn in that documentary that told the story of our own South Asian identity and the way we see ourselves in culture and society?

[Tan France]

The thing that I, maybe it's not necessarily that I learned, but it just reinforced the fact that I, I, I had hoped that things had moved on somewhat from the 80s and 90s, but what it, it, what it showed me and made very clear it's just as bad today as it. As has always been. We just did a, a much better job of hiding it and making it seem like it wasn't there anymore, because I think, I can't remember if it made it into documentary. I haven't seen the documentary in a long time or if it was just ancillary content. But we did this focus group with people from many different groups within South Asia, and they were mostly women. And it's amazing, it was amazing hearing their stories. They were all young, they were all under, like 25, hearing what they go through today. It's exactly as it was. Just the language changed around it. And so that was, that was the thing that I learned, was that it's still there. We just found a way to hide it a little bit, A bit better.

[Hussain Najmi]

I don't know if you felt this way, but you talk about the racism that you went through growing up in the uk. You told a story about being five years old and getting beaten up.

[Tan France]

Six. Yeah, yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

By adults.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

How did that shape your life and the way you saw yourself in the uk did that on some level as you got older, made you say, I have to leave this place and go to the U.S. yeah.

[Tan France]

I always knew from a very young age, and it was a thing that really pissed my mum off a lot. So you're from an Asian family. You know that we don't typically move away from home. Actually, I want to make this very clear for the. Your audience who are not Asian. British Asians are so different from American Asians. And when we say Asian, sorry, I mean South Asians in England. We don't differentiate. We're just Asian. I think the American Asian experience is a lot more Westernized than the British Asian experience. And you've been to the UK enough to. Yeah, I'm hoping I've noticed that there's actually quite a stark difference between us and you guys. When I was a kid and there was so much violence and animosity towards my family, I knew From a very young age. This isn't home. Like home should be safe. We're not safe here, so this can't be our home. And I used to say to my mum, as soon as I can, I'm going to move from this country. I need to leave this country. I will never feel safe here. You're not safe here.

[Commercial Narrator]

We.

[Tan France]

Why did you bring us here? And obviously, my parents just wanted us to assimilate and just build a life. That's where they had chosen to come to see success. And so for years, I would say, I need to go, I need to go, I need to go. I need to get to America. I think that that might be where I might find peace. Because you didn't have people that look like me on your tv. So I thought, you're not going to know where we're from, so you're not going to know how to be racist to me. And the crazy thing is, Hassan, that's exactly what happened. I came here when I was 17 and no one knew where I was from. I just had this dark skin, and compared to white people, dark skin and a very British accent.

[Hussain Najmi]

Got it.

[Tan France]

Where's he from?

[Hussain Najmi]

So do they think you were just like a vaguely Mediterranean man with a posh British?

[Tan France]

Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. Or just ethnically ambiguous. Some people thought I was Mexican, some people thought I was South American, some people thought I was from the Mediterranean. They just couldn't place me. No one ever thought I was Pakistani. Also, I don't think they knew. Knew what? That. I don't think Americans knew what that was 20 years ago.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

And so actually they do now, because we helped broker a peace deal, apparently. And so other than that, though, they didn't really know what I was. And so I was able to move to a place where even if they were racist, they didn't know how to be racist towards me. And I know that sounds really lame to want that. I'll take that. And you thinking, I want to fucking call him something. Where the fuck is he from? I don't know how to hurt him. As opposed to. I know exactly what to say, you dirty Paki. Why was that?

[Hussain Najmi]

Why is that word so loaded there? It's just a word that's not used in the us, but for a lot of my friends that are South Asian, this, like, word was used as a way to bully and beat them up, basically.

[Tan France]

I can't even tell you what that word still does to me. Somebody called me a packy not too long ago after Queer Eye In England. And I thought, stupidly, I thought, I've reached some kind of success. Whatever your idea of success is. I just thought, I am successful. I was wealthy, I was on a very successful TV show. My life was in a good place. And then I get called a packy from some scum on the street. God, what the fuck is this? How is this possible? That it's still happening and it takes you right back and you feel physically sick? Think sick thinking, oh, my God. No matter what success I see, it doesn't negate the fact that so many of you will just see me as that thing which you find disgusting.

[Hussain Najmi]

Did you eventually find peace and happiness

[Tan France]

here or in America?

[Hussain Najmi]

Yes.

[Tan France]

Yeah, I know that I sound crazy. Let me just say this. I know you probably got.

[Hussain Najmi]

Because you didn't just move to America, you moved to Salt Lake City.

[Tan France]

Okay, let me add to that. Don't say that with such disdain. Um, so I love Salt Lake City.

[Hussain Najmi]

I love Salt Lake City. I think it's very beautiful. But I think it's not based on your problem. I don't know if it's the solve that you're looking for.

[Tan France]

I think you'll find it is. You don't know. I'm gonna tell you. Let me educate all of you who think that think certain things are Salt Lake. Just so you know, I am going to be moving from Salt Lake, but I've been there for 19 years, and if I could stay there for 19

[Hussain Najmi]

years, you'd love it so much you left.

[Tan France]

No, it's my husband's midlife crisis, and he wants us to move. And I'm a good husband, and so I will make my husband happy.

[Hussain Najmi]

Were you guys moving here to New York?

[Tan France]

Yeah. Hey, we're going to see. Inshallah. Inshah, bro. So I, I.

[Hussain Najmi]

You're leaving Salt Lake City to move to Mandanistan.

[Tan France]

Good for you. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. So when I first came to America, I'll try and keep this short for you, I promise. I moved to America. My housemate was from Salt Lake City. He said, do you want to come and check out Salt Lake City? Yes, I'd love to. I'd never heard of it. We don't hear about Utah. Salt Lake in England, obviously. And so I was like, yeah, I'll see what that's all about. I was treated so beautifully that first evening by the wait staff that were there. At the restaurant when I was out, people were just curious, like, hi, how are you? Who are you? Where are you? From because it was so not diverse. 20 years ago I was a very rare thing to see and so I was treated so nicely. But most importantly, I was asked out twice that first night at dinner by two separate women. And I thought, they don't know that I'm Pakistani here. They don't know that I'm seen as a second class citizen in my part of the world. They just see me as a person. And that I know it sounds pathetic, but that really, it really made me feel something because I'd never felt that in England. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to try and stay here. This is my people. Like they want me here. They care for me here. They don't make me feel like I'm less than here. And that has been the case for my entire 19 years. I need you to understand. Utah, yes, may be quite Republican, but Salt Lake is really a balanced community. And also the more so Utah, I'm sure most of you know, is like the Mecca for Mormons. And it's encouraged a culture where even if you think something negative about somebody, you're not going to say, oh, it's very unlikely that you will say it. I've never known it to happen. The crime rate's real low and so

[Hussain Najmi]

even no, I'm on board. I've been assault. Like the thing that I'm really struggling to follow here is that you said you were at a restaurant and two women asked you out.

[Tan France]

Yeah, I wasn't dressed as I normally am. What are you trying to say? What's your point?

[Hussain Najmi]

You don't need to use slurs. I've just never been in a situation in my life where two different women have based on just me sitting at the Isn't that insane Counter have been

[Tan France]

like, I went to a Mormon church.

[Hussain Najmi]

Would you like to go out on a date?

[Tan France]

I went to the Mormon church they call it award for multiple Sundays in a row and every time I got asked out. The girls are a lot more direct in Utah and they are beautiful. Everyone talks about that when they go to Utah. They're like, God, the girls are beautiful. They are. They're really attractive.

[Hussain Najmi]

Why do all of my gay friends have stories like this?

[Tan France]

Don't know. I think you guys are doing it wrong.

[Hussain Najmi]

What are we doing wrong?

[Tan France]

I think that they can just tell that you're threatening us. We're just friendly. I just think it doesn't mean you're not as friendly as we are. Like also the gay diet in Utah is terrible. But I was just friendly and I'D say hi. And I was just treating them nicely. They were like, gosh, I want a guy that's just going to treat me nicely. So you get asked out. I've always found it really easy with women. I've always been asked out more by women than by men.

[Hussain Najmi]

Can I hard pivot a little bit? Yeah. Okay.

[Tan France]

French fries.

[Hussain Najmi]

Look, everyone knows you as a fashion icon. Everybody knows you as one of the kindest people on planet Earth.

[Tan France]

That's very nice.

[Hussain Najmi]

But you're now an actor.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

And in Delhi Boy Season 1 and Season 2, dare I say, you are unleashing your internal bag open. You are a absolute lunatic.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

On camera. Did you channel Ben Kingsley in Sexy Beast for that role?

[Tan France]

No. Though Ben is an absolute icon.

[Hussain Najmi]

No, you're a scary level mob boss.

[Tan France]

I channeled my brother. Yeah. My eldest brother, who is the loony one in my family. He's wonderful. We're very close. I love him very much. But he was a very aggressive teenager and young man. Now he's just a family man. But he was a real tough guy. Constantly had fights, was always bloodied. My mum couldn't stand how difficult he was. He was just a very violent, violent guy and all of his friends were very violent. And so getting ready for deli boys at every challenge, thought, how would my brother do this? This is how my brother would do.

[Hussain Najmi]

You and porno are so great in the show.

[Tan France]

I love working with that woman so much. She was a good friend of mine before the show anyway. But getting to work with somebody you have such great.

[Hussain Najmi]

Isn't she one of the most talented people on planet Earth?

[Tan France]

Love that one.

[Hussain Najmi]

Fucking hilarious. Hilarious badass.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

Charming.

[Tan France]

The most genuine. Yeah. Like just a good egg.

[Hussain Najmi]

She's a scene stealer. I know both you and her are seen.

[Tan France]

Oh, thanks. I Steelers. I loved being in that show with her.

[Hussain Najmi]

So I. I love your perspective on this because you are someone who has

[Tan France]

seen

[Hussain Najmi]

South Asians represented in media. I think my Asian fellow artists in the UK had the ability to see brown people on screen way before I did in the US in a more well rounded way. I'll give you an example. Goodness gracious Me, you had many different types of South Asian comedians, literally satirists, comedians, standup comics. Like there's actually multiple generations and sub genres of comedians and I'd love your thoughts on that. Coming up, as an Asian person in the UK in the 80s, seeing these iconic kind of comedies like Goodness Gracious Me and now here we are in 2026 and you're starring In a South Asian show like Deli Boyz, how does it make you feel?

[Tan France]

You know what hasn't? That is such a fucking mind blowing take.

[Hussain Najmi]

Well, you don't grow up watching Goodness Gracious Me.

[Tan France]

Yeah, I did. I watched it, loved it. No, but to hear someone say you had such representation, where I've always thought, where the fuck's the representation? But the thought that you had less is insane to me.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

Because there were like, two shows. Like, you're right. There was Goodness Gracious, but it was

[Hussain Najmi]

a whole show and the whole cast was brown. It was fucking awesome.

[Tan France]

But we had that once for, like, two seasons, and then it was like, it lasted a year and we never saw it again. Like. But it's. It's fascinating hearing your perspective because I've always thought, where were we? Like, why were we never on tv other than that one show I know we had. Do you know what? Easter's east is, of course a movie. So for anyone who doesn't know Easter's

[Hussain Najmi]

East, Easter's east, bend it like backup. There's. There was a lot that shaped me.

[Tan France]

God, that's. Oh, my God. They're like, your take is so fucking wild.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

If you were to speak to any of the Brit, except other than me, they'd have the same reaction, saying, you think we were well represented. There were like, five or six things within 20 years of my existence in England. Every time I saw one of those things, I felt such relief, thinking, okay, there is a space for us. We do get to be entertainers. Did you grow up on Bollywood? Of course. Okay. Did you like Bollywood? Yes. Okay. I was obsessed with Bollywood, and I loved seeing very creative South Asians. That really did something for me. And I just thought, I know we have it in us. Why aren't we doing more in Western television? The Brits that I know who are Asian, they all speak English. We all spoke English. Why couldn't we be on tv? Because we are just as talented and we speak the language. What's the issue? And so we had, like, as you said, two or three shows out of the hundreds upon hundreds, if not thousands of shows. We had two or three shows. So your take is very interesting, but I will give you that we did have a couple, and every time I saw them, I just thought, I love that we're making headway. However, I need you to remember and cast your mind back. Most of it was pushing against the stereotype or leaning into the stereotype. Did you ever do.

[Hussain Najmi]

It just felt like when I watched the show, it was for me. That's how I felt.

[Tan France]

Yeah. It just felt, goodness gracious me. It was for me, it was for us.

[Hussain Najmi]

It just gave me that feeling.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right.

[Hussain Najmi]

And it was both like whether you're in the group, whether you're out of the group. It was for us. And it, it was a huge inspiration then for my. I then had a sketch group called Goat Face which Asif was in. So it was me, Asif Aristotle of Theris, who went on to go be on snl and Fahim Anwar. And goodness gracious Me was a huge inspiration.

[Commercial Narrator]

Wow.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yes, wow.

[Tan France]

Okay. It was iconic. Like every Asian sat down prime time television. We would all sit down with Asan and Roti. It was about 8 o' clock at night and we would all watch. We always stayed home to watch. That's how big it was, but that's how important it was because it was the only show like it and it was the only one we'd ever seen where we weren't just. It wasn't like bend it like Beckham who just. They really pushed a stereotype. This is how our girls are. We're not allowed. They're not allowed to do this, they're not allowed to do that. They have arranged marriages. You can't be a lesbian. Like, just stereotypical. This is what Asians are. Whereas with Goodness Gracious Me, it was very clear they were in on the joke. Even if it was a stereotype, they were making fun of the fact that this is a stereotype for our people. It felt very different. So goodness gracious me, it's so different from the other things that we had.

[Hussain Najmi]

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[Commercial Narrator]

Introducing Meta Glasses.

[Hussain Najmi]

Hey, Meta, any last minute tables for two tonight?

[Commercial Narrator]

Sure. There's a great Italian restaurant 15 minutes away.

[Hussain Najmi]

Hey, Meta, where's the nearest flower shop?

[Commercial Narrator]

Five minutes away. Straight down Broadway, past the bodega. Their lilies are trending on Instagram.

[Tan France]

Just saying.

[Hussain Najmi]

Hey, Meta, am I forgetting anything else?

[Commercial Narrator]

How about setting a calendar reminder for next year? Meta glasses, available in more than 20 styles.

[Hussain Najmi]

Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember.

[Tan France]

Same drive, different day don't you wish

[Hussain Najmi]

you were getting away?

[Tan France]

Pack your bags and go Come on

[Hussain Najmi]

through Texas, Ohio, Alaska, we're up there too. Comfort Inn, it's calling your name Save on the stain. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song book. [e-mail] In Chapter 16 of your memoir, you go off on these long rants about the difference between the United States

[Tan France]

and the uk Do I? Gosh.

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay. Now can you take us through some of these key differences? You go off about supermarkets and how different they are in the United States versus the United Kingdom. What's your issue with supermarkets?

[Tan France]

No, it's not my issue. I love American supermarkets. I go to the supermarket every day, almost every day. I don't think I've missed a day. Every time I'm home, I will go to the supermarket even when I don't need anything. After 19 years, it's still a really fascinating cultural experience. I just find it so bizarre that you have a cereal aisle. Yeah, there is a cereal aisle.

[Hussain Najmi]

I'm aware.

[Tan France]

There's a bread aisle.

[Hussain Najmi]

There's a bread aisle for freight.

[Tan France]

For fake bread. Like, it's not. Like it's.

[Hussain Najmi]

It's not real bread.

[Tan France]

It's fake bread. Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

There's a bakery for real bread. And I know this. I used to work at Safeway. Not brag, but I was an employee of the Vons.

[Tan France]

Wow.

[Hussain Najmi]

Supermarket chain.

[Tan France]

Wow. Wow.

[Hussain Najmi]

I was fired.

[Commercial Narrator]

Wow.

[Tan France]

Okay, but sounds about right.

[Hussain Najmi]

I work there and I'm aware of how. How crazy people can be.

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

At the grocery store.

[Tan France]

It's fast. American stores are fascinating. Have you ever been to a British grocery store?

[Hussain Najmi]

No.

[Tan France]

If you.

[Hussain Najmi]

Smaller.

[Tan France]

Much smaller. Even if we have massive ones, it's not like we've got a whole aisle of that thing. There's just a lot more selection of other things. And so American grocery stores, they're just everyone that comes here. My family does it also. When my family comes to Utah every day, they want to go just to look at the grocery store because it's so weird.

[Hussain Najmi]

I go to the grocery store and I have an amazing time at supermarkets, mainly because I don't have to work there. I walk in, it's fully air conditioned. I don't have to wear one of those goddamn aprons and they don't call me a courtesy clerk anymore. I go, I'm a free man and you can't tell me to do jack shit. Also, the Safeway brand and the larger parent company, Vons, made you shave. You had to be freshly shaven every day.

[Tan France]

And.

[Hussain Najmi]

And it was fucking up my skin because I had acne. So I stopped doing it and I got fired, so fuck them. Also, number three, they didn't have the new cart technology that could. Now they have robots that bring the carts in. And it's like 108 degrees. In Davis, where I grew up, during the summers, it gets so goddamn hot. And I used have to. I would just get dehydrated.

[Tan France]

Oh, yeah, because people are assholes.

[Hussain Najmi]

They fucking leave their carts in the middle of the goddamn street.

[Tan France]

That's also problem with American grocery stores in England, and I think this is the case in Europe. You have to pay for it, but you get it back when you bring it back. So we don't have that problem there.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah, people are maniacs.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

Let's talk about debt. You had this huge rant about debt.

[Tan France]

Oh, yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

What's your issue with debt? I mean, it's a very American thing.

[Tan France]

Yeah. And I'm very British. Even though I'm now American, I have a real concern with debt in America. You can't. So you guys run on, like, a credit score system.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

And I didn't know what that was. I was raised in a family where we weren't allowed credit. Like, I'm sure, you know. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, a lot of Muslims don't have mortgages. You will do, like, a rent to buy thing. So that was just the culture and religion I was raised in. And so we didn't have debt. Like, you'd have debt to a family member. Like, you loan. Like, we do something called committee, which is, you'll loan each other money or you're all part of, like, this. This pot, but you. You don't owe a bank. Like, it's not.

[Hussain Najmi]

It's not like that where your house is getting foreclosed or there's.

[Tan France]

Yeah, we don't. We don't do that. And so. So when I was younger, I. If I couldn't afford something, I couldn't afford something. Like, up until the time when I became wealthy, when I had my businesses, if I couldn't afford it, I couldn't afford it. So I would watch people, my friends, buy all these things and tell me, God, I've got like 20 grand's worth of credit. Card debt. And I'd be like, oh my God, you'd be sweating. Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

You'd have a full panic attack.

[Tan France]

I don't know how a person functions. Like, how do you live your life knowing that you are in that position because you are buying stuff that you couldn't afford it. Just like if you need it, I absolutely understand.

[Hussain Najmi]

I mean, the whole country runs on that.

[Tan France]

I know, I know, but I. No, but I'm not talking about, well, I needed to pay my gas bill or my rent. That's different. If you need that, of course I understand that you have had to run up some debt. But when it's for just frivolous stuff, like I've had friends who are like, I'm going to buy this new leather jacket. How much is it? $1,000. Don't you have $20,000 debt on your car? Yeah, it's 21. I'll figure it out.

[Hussain Najmi]

It was 21k.

[Tan France]

Oh, yeah. It makes me feel you're being such

[Hussain Najmi]

an uncle about this. Debt is the most American thing.

[Tan France]

But it's a very American thing.

[Hussain Najmi]

It's a very American thing. Or how about this? Brunches that take place afternoon.

[Tan France]

That's not brunch.

[Hussain Najmi]

What are you talking about?

[Tan France]

That's lunch. Americans wanting to go for brunch at 2 or 3. So whenever a friend says, do you want to go for. Or I'll. I'm usually the one who always wants to go for brunch. Do you want to go to brunch? Yeah. Can we do it like two? No, that's lunch. That's lunch. Or liner like that ain't. That's not brunch.

[Hussain Najmi]

No, no, no. It is brunch. Because here's what's happening is I, you're get. You're sleeping in and you're getting up at 11:30.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

Then you're kind of like showering and putting about the house.

[Tan France]

Yeah. At lunchtime, go.

[Hussain Najmi]

Maybe you have like a nice coffee, you have like a little bit of something to drink. But then around 2 o' clock you go, I'm hungry.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

And I haven't eaten yet and I want a meal. That's brunch. 2pm brunch. 1pm brunch. It's a very.

[Tan France]

You don't get to decide what you call that meal. Just because you woke up late.

[Hussain Najmi]

That is. That's just a new name for sleeping in and then eating later.

[Tan France]

That's ludicrous. You would have your breakfast, then your next meal would be your brunch.

[Hussain Najmi]

Why do we have to have labels about this. You know, in. In South Asian communities, we eat dinner late. Some people are like, this is late night. I'm like, this is dinner. We're having dinner at 10:30pm and that's totally normal.

[Tan France]

No, that's a midnight snack.

[Hussain Najmi]

We're gonna have Nahari at 10.30pm you don't know. You might be at your popo's house, you might be at your challah's, you might be at your chachi. No, you can't. We're not gonna have biryani at 10 o'.

[Tan France]

Clock. Why would you rename the meal, have that meal? But why are you calling it something it's not? It's not.

[Hussain Najmi]

Let me end with something that's very important. Very rarely do I get to sit across from a sartorial expert, from a style icon, and from someone who also understands the South Asian body type. I recently caught a lot of flack. And by recently I mean about four years ago, I caught a lot of flack when I made a comment in a GQ interview about trimming my body hair at hotels. I said, I like to trim my body hair at hotels. The same way the United States treats its foreign policy in other countries. I'll go in there, I'll fuck some shit up, and then I'll walk out and act like it was never my problem to begin with. And people in the comment section gave me, fucking hell.

[Tan France]

I'm about to say something really controversial.

[Hussain Najmi]

Go ahead.

[Tan France]

I do exactly the same. I swear to God, I do exactly the same. I never trim my own body hair in my own home.

[Hussain Najmi]

The response I've gotten from my loved ones, wow. Specifically my wife, when I do it at home to keep it tight for her, she's disgusted by it. So I go, you know what? I'm going to take this because I'm not going to. I'm not going to keep this out. I'm not going to let go.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Hussain Najmi]

I'm not going to turn into Saddam Hussein when they captured him.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

I'm going to keep this all groomed and tight.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

But I'm going to take this into the Hampton Inn.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

I'm going to take this to the Best Western.

[Tan France]

Yeah. I'm not going to clock my own trains. Get out of it.

[Hussain Najmi]

But people in the comments are like, this guy's a fucking terrorist. This guy is a menace to society. And I had to respond and say, look, I leave a tip. I go, here's 20 bucks. I'm sorry, is it.

[Tan France]

I Thought everyone does that. Is it just us?

[Hussain Najmi]

It's us. It's just us. But the fact that you do it tan. This is a moment of liberation. I'm telling you, man. I've been living with this for years, thinking that I'm an. Thinking that I'm a menace to society.

[Tan France]

I. Okay, wait. Just to make sure I'm understanding, I think. Clean it up.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yes.

[Tan France]

Like, kinda.

[Hussain Najmi]

Kinda's the. See, that's the word. See, that's the way you're going like that. That's what it is.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

So kind of. So wipe it up.

[Tan France]

Yeah, take.

[Hussain Najmi]

Like, take. And here's what I'll do.

[Tan France]

Wet paper towels.

[Hussain Najmi]

A wet paper towel. Yeah, exactly.

[Tan France]

Wet tissues. Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

So I'll double up a tissue.

[Tan France]

Same.

[Hussain Najmi]

So I'll do dry. Boom. That'll go, by the way, in the flush. Then I'll flush it down in the toilet.

[Tan France]

That's exactly it. Yeah.

[Hussain Najmi]

Then I'll get it wet. And then. But I am not doing a forensic deep dive of every single microbe.

[Tan France]

That's what the cleaners are there for. I don't. Whoever's saying that this is wrong, go fuck yourself. Go. Like, do not come for us. You don't know what it's like to deal with the body hair we have. Get out of it. There's nothing wrong with it. We're cleaning up. We're cleaning up.

[Hussain Najmi]

I started to feel so guilty. There was several moments in my life where I debated, should I go into my backyard and deal with this mess? That. And I literally thought of the neighbors.

[Tan France]

That's exactly it. The answer is no. The answer is absolutely no. Why would. Why would you do it in your own home?

[Hussain Najmi]

Okay, look. The most practical solution that I've gotten is do it in the bathtub. Do it in the bathtub at your home, at the hotel, and then you can turn the bath. But the problem is. Is that the difference? It's. It's hard to do beard without.

[Tan France]

Yeah, yeah. I do it in the shower. I do everything in the shower.

[Hussain Najmi]

I do both.

[Tan France]

Okay?

[Hussain Najmi]

So I'm doing this over a sink.

[Tan France]

Okay.

[Hussain Najmi]

And then I'm doing other parts of the body still.

[Tan France]

You wiping up? It's fine. They're the problem. Not. I know. I know that we're not the problem here. I know, brother. I don't care how many millions of you there are. You're the problem, not us.

[Hussain Najmi]

Thank you.

[Tan France]

There's certain things that I will take the hit on. Not that. Not that I'm a chic bitch. You can call me whatever you want. I'm a chic bitch. There's nothing trashy about me. That's just fine.

[Hussain Najmi]

Am I a chic?

[Tan France]

You're a chic bitch.

[Hussain Najmi]

Thank you.

[Tan France]

Thanks.

[Hussain Najmi]

I love you.

[Tan France]

I love you, mate.

[Hussain Najmi]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

I want to see you more now, though. I want to see you more. Hurry. Right away. No delays.

[Hussain Najmi]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

[Tan France]

Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun. It was if we made $15 bills,

[Hussain Najmi]

but it turns out that's very illegal.

[Tan France]

So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Hussain Najmi]

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[Tan France]

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[Hussain Najmi]

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