Is “Longevity” a Grift? - with Dr. Sanjay Gupta

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “Is Longevity a Grift?” with Dr. Sanjay Gupta

Podcast: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know
Host: Hasan Minhaj (186k Films)
Guest: Dr. Sanjay Gupta
Date: May 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Hasan Minhaj Doesn’t Know explores the cultural phenomenon of longevity—whether our obsession with living longer is legitimate science or just a trending grift. Hasan Minhaj, with his signature wit and curiosity, sits down with Dr. Sanjay Gupta (neurosurgeon and CNN’s chief medical correspondent) to debunk myths, scrutinize longevity products, and deliver evidence-based guidance on healthy living. The conversation balances humor with depth, tackling everything from testosterone supplements and celebrity wellness trends to the dangers of misinformation and the real foundations for living well.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Longevity Hype: Legit or Grift?

• Product Proliferation: From powders and full-body scans to blood transfusions, the wellness industry is targeting our desire for longer lives.
• Historical Obsession: Humanity’s quest for longevity is old (“story of the holy grail”), but today it’s “packaged in weird powders, serums, and vampire blood transfusions” often by questionable figures.
• Dr. Gupta’s Skepticism: Admits much of the industry skirts real scientific scrutiny because “it’s very hard to collect the data here… in a way, they're not beholden to the data.”
  • Notable Quote: “They can sell you products, they can make these crazy claims, a lot of which are… pretty outrageous.” (Dr. Gupta, 06:56)

2. Science vs. Social Media—Distinguishing Effective Health Practice

• Algorithmic Feed: Minhaj jokes his social feed shows longevity because he’s “eating Chunky Monkey at 2:00 in the morning.”
• Normalization of Enhancement: Widespread use of testosterone and growth hormone—not always medically necessary—raises long-term safety concerns.
• Dr. Gupta Warns: “A lot of young men are megadosing on steroids, but the problem 10, 20, 30 years from now might be something that they don’t have to think about because they’re getting those short term benefits.” (09:10)

3. Evidence-Based Foundations for a Healthier, Longer Life

A rapid-fire, no-nonsense rundown of what actually works:

• Basic Pillars:
  • Exercise: Aim for at least 30 minutes a day of moderate to vigorous activity; ideal HR zone ~126-130 bpm. (17:01)
  • Diet: Minimize processed food—a useful definition: “If you couldn’t make this in your own kitchen…it’s processed.” (18:53)
  • Supplements: Dr. Gupta personally only takes metformin (originally for diabetes, but has “hallmarks of aging” benefits) and creatine (best-studied for muscle/bone). (19:29)
  • Sleep: 7-9 hours per night is vital for optimal mood and performance. (24:27)
  • No Smoking: “Tobacco has no redeeming qualities.” (26:00)
  • Social Connection: Strong social ties dramatically correlate with long, healthy lives—digital “followers” don’t count. (26:39)
• Mental Health: Reading books and engaging with humans/screens-free projects builds attention and resilience. (58:30)

4. Myth-Busting: Medical Misinformation Lightning Round

• “The flu shot gives you the flu.” - False (45:47)
• “Raw milk is good for you.” - False (46:14)
• “Wi-Fi causes cancer.” – No cause and effect found yet (46:28)
• “A juice cleanse will detoxify your body.” - False (46:57)
• “Inserting garlic cloves in your nostrils relieves congestion.” – Probably (but not recommended) (47:19)
• “You should take this thing they also give to horses.” (re: ivermectin) - No, False (47:32)
• On ‘toxins’ and detox: The liver does the real detoxifying; massages and trendy cleanses aren’t comparable (48:18).

5. How Medical Misinformation Spreads

• YouTube & AI: There’s great and terrible health content online, and it can be “really challenging” for the average person to distinguish.
• “If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.” (38:23)
• AI Medical Advice: Useful cautiously, but “do what they call human in the loop”—use AI as a tool, not a solo source (41:29).

6. The Tech, Politics & Marketing of Health

• GLP-1 Drugs (Ozempic, Manjaro): They’re “pretty legit” for weight loss/diabetes, but long-term, society-wide effects still unknown. (12:57)
• D2C Pharma Ads: Minhaj and Gupta agree it’s bizarre and problematic for TV ads to tell patients to ask doctors about drugs they may not need or even understand. (54:42)
• Plastics & Microplastics: The widespread presence of microplastics is increasingly seen as a serious (and poorly addressed) health threat. (49:08)

7. The Blue Zones (Japan/Okinawa) & Lessons on Aging

• Okinawan lifestyle: Bakes regular movement and lack of retirement into daily life; staying purposefully busy extends healthspan. (35:06)
• Retirement Paradox: “When people retire… they actually are less likely to do those things” they promised (e.g. exercise, better diet). (35:32)
• Oldest-Old Stories: Viral stories of centenarians who drink Coke or whiskey are fun but not data-based models; “for the vast majority, the actual broad data shows” otherwise. (33:16)

8. Aging, Brain Health, and Society

• Screen Use and Cognitive Decline: Brain “rot” from overstimulation isn’t dementia, but share symptoms (memory, attention, sleep, focus).
• Crosswords: Helpful, but “if you do a lot of crossword puzzles, you’ll probably get really good at doing crossword puzzles” (60:14)
• Presidents, Age, and Public Perception: Calls for standardized cognitive testing; distinguishes between “dementia” and “disinhibition.”
• Political language matters: “Demented” vs. “dementia”—the former is pejorative, not clinical. (62:05)
• Celebrity/Old Age Culture: Individual meaning matters most—don’t judge whether late-life activity is “sad” or “abuse” without knowing the person’s own perspective. (66:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“No, look, the title of the show is ‘Hasan Minhaj Doesn’t Know.’ But there are two things that I know for sure. Whatever the next Nolan movie is, it will be worth watching in the actual movie theaters. And two, we will all die.”
— Hasan Minhaj (01:58)

“The two things I take are metformin and creatine… but again, is it going to help me live longer? I’d have to die for that to really be able to answer that question.”
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta (19:29)

“If you couldn’t make this [food] in your own kitchen… it’s more of a chemistry experiment than a cooking experiment at that point.”
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta (18:53)

“Tobacco has no redeeming qualities. It’s not providing anything. All it is, is providing potential illness.”
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta (26:00)

“Having Instagram followers… it’s so ephemeral. You can be so dependent on a negative comment from somebody who you don’t even know.”
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta (27:15)

“If something seems too good to be true, it’s probably too good to be true.”
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta (38:23)

“Your liver does a phenomenally good job of detoxifying your body.”
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta (48:32)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Longevity’s cultural boom & skepticism: 02:16–06:56
• Supplements and testosterone trends: 08:03–10:48
• Anti-aging drugs (metformin, GLP-1s, creatine): 11:24–22:27
• Quick tips for living longer: Exercise, diet, sleep: 17:00–26:00
• The problem with processed foods: 18:30–19:29
• Measuring “real” wellness & social connection: 26:39–28:18
• Medical misinformation myth-busting: 45:21–49:14
• AI & online medical advice: 39:00–44:56
• Okinawa, Japan, and healthy aging: 35:06–37:22
• Microplastics and real toxins: 49:08–51:29
• Presidential cognition & public figures: 60:26–64:49
• Aging celebrities and finding meaning: 65:28–68:25

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Final Thoughts

Dr. Gupta’s biggest lessons are steadfast and accessible—consistent exercise, real food, regular sleep, real-world relationships, and skepticism of too-good-to-be-true solutions. The episode highlights not only the pitfalls of the longevity industry’s flash and flare, but also our culture’s tendency to bypass the basics in search of quick fixes. The lasting message: the mundane, evidence-based choices matter most, even if they’re not marketable or viral.

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Transcript

[A]

Lemonade. Breaking news Spirit Airlines has officially gone down in operations. No flights crashed. Now, I'll be honest, this is not how I expected Spirit to go out. I was expecting more final destination vibes. But I read about the Spirit debacle on Ground News, which is today's sponsor and our favorite independent news source here at hmdk. Ground News is a platform that shows a breakdown of publications reporting on a story, their typical factuality, and which way they tend to lean politically. It's not about eliminating bias, you guys. We've all got them. It's just trying to make the news more transparent. Now this story gets even wilder. Voice actor Hunter Peterson launched a campaign called let's Buy Spirit to purchase the airline using a fan ownership model like the Green Bay packers. Within hours, 36,000 people pledged nearly $23 million, crashing Peterson's servers. I mean, it has been so interesting to read articles on this, knowing that they're typical political leanings. One conservative publication called the movement a joke, while a more liberal publication labeled it as a genius idea. The more centrist publications are all asking what I am? Is this even possible? Go to groundnews.com hustan to get 40% off the vantage plan, the same one that we use here at HMDK. That's groundnews.com Hussan hey there, it's Hasan. Before this podcast continues, I'm going to need you to fill out 37 forms about your listening history. I'll wait. Nah, I'm just kidding. I mean, that would be ridiculous to make you do that. And yet you do do that every time you need healthcare. But the new Amazon Health AI is different. It can connect your health history to offer personalized care so you can get help fast. Amazon Health AI Healthcare just got less painful.

[B]

Three years ago, I asked the most

[A]

unthinkable and crazy question possible.

[B]

Are we the first generation that won't die?

[A]

No. Look, the title of the show is Hasan Minhaj doesn't know. But there are two things that I know for sure. Number one, whatever the next Nolan movie is, it will be worth watching in the actual movie theaters. And two, we will all die. But everywhere I look, I am being bombarded with products and services promising me longevity.

[B]

What's the answer to longevity? It isn't a secret ingredient.

[A]

My husband wants to live to 100 years. So he's doing where wellness meets longevity.

[B]

Prolong longevity and well being with the fast so your body doesn't just look

[A]

younger, it feels adding decades to your life. Begin your journey to atroversal I'll be honest, when I hit 40 last year, I started listening supplements hit me. Red light therapy, of course. Cold plunges? Hell no. Now, on one hand, this feels like a totally normal thing for people to want. Healing, strength, youth. It is literally the story of the holy grail. But on the other hand, it's all being packaged in weird powders, in serums, in full body scans, in straight up vampire blood transfusions sold to us by guys who either hung out with Jeffrey Epstein or look like raw chicken.

[B]

I am the healthiest person on planet Earth.

[A]

So is this whole longevity thing a grift? This is real insurance, by the way.

[B]

Insurance for your own health and your longevity.

[A]

I sat down to talk about it with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, the only TV doctor that I trust. One, because he's an actual doctor. I mean, he's literally a practicing neurosurgeon. And two, because I spend a lot of time in airports and they always have on cnn.

[B]

You've sometimes heard some really hyperbolic things as well. Obviously he's not Gonna Live to 200.

[A]

We had an in depth evidence based conversation about how to increase your lifespan. The Oura ring, They're the CIA, right?

[B]

Yeah, I don't wear one.

[A]

Some ways to shorten your lifespan, if that's what you're into. Raw milk is good for you.

[B]

Raw milk's bad for you. It has all kinds of bacteria. We figured this out a long time ago. This is like an example of de evolution of society.

[A]

And whether there's such thing is too old.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Okay. There are three things that I know for sure.

[B]

So. Hurry right away, no delay. Make your daddy glad you have had such a bad.

[A]

Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe.

[B]

By the way, I have a little bit of a bad back, just so.

[A]

Really? And you want me to diagnose this right now?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I thought since. Since you know everything.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't know anything.

[B]

I feel like you know more than you say.

[A]

You know what?

[B]

Well,

[A]

many would disagree. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much for joining us on the show.

[B]

Awesome. Thank you.

[A]

Mr. Gupta, is it true I read in an interview, this was a 2015 Playboy interview, that you never kill bugs? Is that true?

[B]

That is true. That's true. I think maybe because I'm a doctor, I don't know, I err on the side of life.

[A]

Spiders, you're cool with them?

[B]

I don't like them, to be clear. But that doesn't mean I'm going to kill Them though, either.

[A]

So you're going to do the whole thing where you take the cup?

[B]

Yeah, take the cup. Exactly. Piece of paper, slide it out. I do this with. There was a wasp in our house.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so you're a pacifist when it comes to bugs.

[B]

Yeah. Most things in life, I never feel good about it afterwards. It's not even in the moment.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's more about how you feel.

[A]

How you feel.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Because you feel like a huge giant crushing this tiny little thing.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm. Look, I'm not naive to the idea that it probably has no sensation, but

[A]

still, that's crazy because in my mind they for sure feel it.

[B]

You think so?

[A]

Oh, when I squash that ant, they're like. But I still go for it. Let's move on to something that is more within your domain of expertise. Let's talk about longevity. It's having a moment. Why is that?

[B]

I think it's been having a moment for a while. I think people have long been interested in this, you know, going back to, you know, Blue Zone days. I think the idea that there are, there are places around the world where people live extraordinarily long, healthy and happy lives are those things that we could do here as well. In the United States, for example, I think, you know, social media and the sharing of content has made it more of a moment now. I think that a lot of people have entered the industry to profit off of it, quite quite frankly.

[A]

I'm Tony Robbins, co founder of Fountain Life.

[B]

This is real insurance, by the way.

[A]

Insurance for your own health and your longevity.

[B]

For a lot of people who are longevity doctors who spend decades studying this stuff, it's really hard study. I mean, because fundamentally you're asking a question, will this person live longer? And you don't really know until these people start to die. Did they actually live longer than they otherwise would have? Did they live longer than people who didn't do the things. It's very hard to collect the data here and I think a lot of people sort of entered the field because of that. In a way, they're not beholden to the data. Yeah, they can sell you products, they can make these crazy claims, a lot of which are, you know, pretty outrageous.

[A]

Has it always been that in the decades that you've been covering health and wellness, or is it the fact that it is being served up in my algorithm because I'm eating chunky monkey at 2:00 clock in the morning?

[B]

I think it's a lot of the Latter, I think it's always been there. I mean, the idea really for centuries, probably the idea that mankind wanted to sort of say, look, how do we push the limits of lifespan? I think more recently people have started to really talk more about it in terms of health span. But I think it's really. I think you are being fed a lot of this content, maybe based on your interests, maybe based on your habits, whatever it might be. Now, there's something that people monetize, and I think as a result of that monetization, that has created an entire industry around, around longevity and wellness and things like that. Some of those products may be great, some of them may be terrible. The problem is, I think for the audience, they have a very hard time distinguishing between the two.

[A]

Why does it feel like there's just two wild extremes when it comes to talking about getting old? Either I look like Joe Biden or I look like those tech oligarchs who are trying to never die, but they still look terrible. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah, I think that for a lot of people, they are probably using substances to try and promote how they look.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know whether it's actually increasing their longevity. So I'll tell you. For example, for, for men, I think the use of, of testosterone and human growth hormone and things like that has gone way up. For men who are deficient, it makes sense. But I think these are people who are either not deficient or they're mega dosing. So I think it may make people's appearance different, their muscle mass, their bone density and things like that. But I think if the fundamental question still is, is this going to help me live longer? I don't think we know, and I think we may be really surprised ultimately when the answer comes back, because it could be the opposite. It could be that it actually shortened our lives. I mean, many of these substances are associated with all kinds of toxicity in the body and things like that. So someone who lives a natural life free of those sorts of substances may live a very long life, even if they don't look as good in the, in the short term, at least as someone who's, who's taken those substances.

[A]

Does it concern you when you see a bunch of teenagers or men in their young twenties taking trt?

[B]

Absolutely. Take me through your mindset. When you're like, okay, I want to take trt, it's like sort of like a cheat code is how I thought about it. It's like, why would I not do this? That if I could accelerate my progress in the gym. Yeah. With a simple pharmaceutical intervention, then of course I'm gonna do it. I mean, this is a, this is a problem, I think, and I think it's become very normalized. I mean, you have people, I mean, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Talks about the fact that he's taking testosterone. I think he's 70 or 71 years old. I mean, he's pretty ripped. I think a lot of that probably has to do with those substances. I'm on an anti aging protocol from my doctor that includes testostero replacement. And I think that then becomes normalized for people. Most people, the vast majority, 90% plus, don't need this stuff. And I think, you know, as a doctor, I've always sort of said, look, I think my, my role is probably to say, let's make sure this isn't harming you. If you come to me and say I'm taking this stuff and I feel that it's helping me, I'm not going to be the guy to say it's not helping you. If you think it's helping you, then it's helping you. I think the person's, Their truth comes first. But I do think we have an OBLIG to inform people if it's harming them. So taking high doses of testosterone, for example, could be toxic to your heart, could cause problems, if not now in life than later in life. So potentially shortening your life later on. So young men who are taking this mega dosing on a lot of these steroids, the problem 10, 20, 30 years from now might be something that they don't think about, they don't have to think about because they're getting those short term benefits. Are you going to be infertile?

[A]

Do you worry about having children?

[B]

So right now I am infertile, but I'm not able to have a kid right now. But if I wanted to, there's a protocol I can put in place that be immediately good again.

[A]

Why are you infertile right now?

[B]

So it's just like a negative feedback loop when you're not needing to produce testosterone anymore because your body realizes, okay, we're getting it from an exhaust. You're not producing any testosterone naturally.

[A]

No. Well, for a lot of people, they want to feel better now. Right. And I've been hearing this since the 90s. Hey, the secret for me. Fen phen. I'm hearing it now. Hey, the secret for me. Ozempic. No, no, scratch that. The secret for me. Manjaro. Way better.

[B]

Yeah. So I think what you're asking is a fundamental question. And frankly, I've been doing this for 25 years and I think that what you're hitting on has been, I think one of the biggest challenges, the idea that if I talk to you about the basics and I say if you, you know, if you habit stack, if you sleep right, if you exercise, if you, if your diet is a certain diet, if you have connections in your life, all those things are kind of boring. You know, they're not the most exciting things to make stories around. And, and what I'm fundamentally saying is, look, if you live a healthy life, then eventually nothing will happen to you, meaning you're not going to get these diseases. It's not a particularly inspiring story. I think what we've started to do more, and I, and I really, truly believe this, is to remind people that they will feel good now with those habits. So this isn't just about preventing disease. A quarter century from now, you will feel better now. You will be a better husband, a better brother, a better friend, a better colleague. All those things. Now you'll wake up with more of a spring in your step. Having said that, I think, you know, when you talk about things like Manjaro or Ozempic. Yeah, some of these things do have a lot of data around them. You know, these are, these were some of these early GLPs. They've been around in Denmark, for example, since the early 2000.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So some of them have, you know, 20 year plus date on them. You know, we've started to learn about them in the last few years.

[A]

Hang on. So, Dr. Gupta, are you saying are GLP1s legit or is it going to be like sports gambling where there's going to be a huge class action lawsuit in years to come and probably a killer documentary series?

[B]

I think they're pretty legit. I mean, that's the headline. You need to wait long term in order to have that data. I mean, that's just the reality. If someone says, hey, what is this going to do to society or to people 30, 40 years from now to really honestly, authentically answer that question, you'd have to wait that period of time. But a couple of things to keep in mind. If you look at most substances, if they're going to have significant side effects, most of those side effects occur within the first couple, three months. Okay, that's a little bit of a data point that I think is interesting. If, if the, if these substances aren't causing significant problems in that time period, the chance of them causing some problem 20, 30 years down the road is less. Not, not zero, but. But it's less. And I think that's, that's an important data point with the GLPs. If you look at international data, you have decades plus long data, not, not in the same size of population like we see now. Obviously you got millions and millions of people taking it. But I got to tell you, Hassan, I was pretty blown away by how well these, these worked. When I look at the studies now, like, I have a terrible family history of heart disease.

[A]

Same South Asians.

[B]

I mean, we really are more dramatically affected by these things. And the way I always explain to people is that oftentimes it's the same diseases that are occurring in South Asians as other demographics. Ours just occur earlier.

[A]

Why is that?

[B]

I don't know. It's really interesting because I thought it was purely lifestyle sort of things. You know, my dad has three brothers, for example, he moved to the United States. Three brothers are in India. You know, very similar genetics. And yet my dad was the one who developed heart disease at age 47. And his brothers, who are in their 70s, 80s now, they're fine. They don't have these problems. Was it the Indian diet? Was it the lifestyle in India versus the United States, the Western sort of lifestyle? I don't know. But across the board, even in India now there was this large study called the CARS study. And they're seeing some of these diseases that we just didn't think about as much, you know, a quarter century ago, starting to happen and happen in young people.

[A]

My mom was telling me that South Asian men, biologically, we have smaller veins. Is that true?

[B]

Arteries?

[A]

Is that true or is my mom just trolling me?

[B]

No, no, your mom's right. Moms are always right. Awesome. You remember that?

[A]

Well, there's a difference between are they emotionally right or factually right? So my mom is always emotionally right and I always take your side. Mom, I want you to know that when I'm in the room with you. That being said, she's factually right this time. She's factually right as well.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, so it's the, it's the blood vessels called the coronary blood vessels. Those are the blood vessels that provide blood to the heart.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Those are the ones that can develop plaques and develop blockages and things like that. So if they're smaller, then they're more likely to develop those, those plaques and things earlier. So that could be part of the timeline. Why 10 years earlier? It's not like other people don't have those plaques, but in a bigger blood vessel, they may not. They may not feel it.

[A]

So we're two cute brown boys. Are you telling me that we're.

[B]

I think there's things we can do about it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think there's things we can do about it, but I think we. We kind of have to work harder than everyone else. Like my dad having heart disease at 47. I'm 57 now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when I was. When I was getting around his age was something I thought about a lot.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because I thought, look, he was not. He was never overweight or anything. He was actually pretty active.

[A]

Did he thing that all Indian men have, which is the ET Body.

[B]

ET body.

[A]

You know, et. Steven Spielberg's et. Big tummy, long arms, skinny.

[B]

I think the arms were normal length.

[A]

The fingers were pretty long, I think.

[B]

Also. Also normal. A little bit. A little bit of a tummy.

[A]

You think ET's fingers were more normal?

[B]

I thought we were talking about my dad.

[A]

Okay. But was he skinny with a tummy like this?

[B]

He had a little bit of a tummy, but he was pretty active, but Developed diabetes. Late 30s. Type 2 diabetes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which was. Surprised everybody because typically you think of that with obesity, but again, I think this goes back to the South Asian thing. Maybe he was. He would have developed it eventually, but he just developed it much earlier.

[A]

Well, one of the things that I wanted to zoom out with you on is it's imperative that everybody approaches the basics and tries to accomplish that for a healthier, happier life. Now, you wrote a book almost 20 years ago. I hate to break it to you, people don't really read books. So what we're going to do is a visual recap.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But it's called Chasing Life. Now, since then, products and services offering you longevity have exploded. But let's just go through the basics of how to improve your life per the book that you wrote. Okay, now give me the basic things everybody can do to live longer. You start with exercise. How many hours a week we talking?

[B]

I'm an exerciser, so I try and do an hour a day. I think if you look at the recommendations, Overall, you know, 30 minutes a day at least. You know, pretty intense, you know, medium to vigorous exercise.

[A]

What are you talking about? Heart rate rise. Give me a number.

[B]

When I get on my peloton, for example, I'm measuring my zone. Zones, which, you know, a lot of people do that, you know, 130, 126 is sort of my. My zone for, I think what is the most Ideal for cardiovascular benefit. Not super high. You know, zone five, I think is 160 beats per minute. So lower than that typically, but pretty consistent for, you know, 45 minutes to an hour.

[A]

Okay. So my screen time is about six and a half hours a day when I'm looking at social media. And that gets my heart rate up to at least 130, 140, depending on if I'm on truth social media, I may get up to 150, 160. Does that count? No. Okay.

[B]

Cardiorespiratory fitness. You know, this is a really interesting thing. You can get your heart rate up in all sorts of different ways.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But what we're talking about here is cardiorespiratory fitness. Actually getting your heart, your lungs, everything moving synchronously so and moving that blood through the body. That's more than just heart rate alone.

[A]

The second component you talked about was having a balanced diet. Cut processed foods, sugar, refined carbs.

[B]

It's amazing. 20 years ago I said that, I mean, and here we are. And now 90% of an average teenager's diet is processed food.

[A]

So explain that to people. What is processed food? Processed, because you have to understand this is gonna go on the Internet where people think the Artemis 2 mission was fake. Clearly. Define what is processed food. I'm having a power bar, a protein bar. Is that processed?

[B]

Yeah, most likely. Okay, most likely. I don't know what you. Here's how I define it, because I think it is actually a little bit of a difficult definition. If you couldn't make this in your own kitchen, like if you went out to the grocery store and bought all the ingredients you could buy, could you then make the product that you're about to eat? If you can't, that means it's processed. That means it's more of a chemistry experiment than a cooking experiment at that point. It's not food at all, really. It's a chemistry experiment. You know, the idea. Can you even pronounce the. The ingredients in the particular product? If you can't, you're most likely dealing with a processed food.

[A]

And how do you make sense of that? Do you take supplements?

[B]

I take two things now, and this has been fairly recent, and I think about these things a lot. I'll just preface by saying that this. None of these were willy nilly sort of decisions. But again, keeping in mind significant family history of heart disease. I do want to live a long time, and I want to live a healthy life a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the two things I've been taking are metformin and creatine. Metformin, I think, has a lot of data around it. It's been around for a long time.

[A]

Heart statin, right?

[B]

No, Metformin is actually originally started as a diabetes drug to, to regulate blood sugar. But what they have found with metformin is fascinating is that there's all these, what they call hallmarks of aging, like you, you, you are of a certain age based on revolutions of planets. But you know, for a lot of scientists, they will say your age is based on how much cellular senescence, you poor performing cells you have in your body, cells that aren't really doing much for you, what the status of your immunity is, your mitochondrial function. There's seven to nine hallmarks of aging. So people say, hey, look, I can actually say this is what your age is scientifically based on measuring these things.

[A]

How do you find that out?

[B]

I mean, there's blood tests, there's, there's, you can, part of it is genetic. There's, there's all sorts of different things. There's a guy here in New York, Nails Berzalai, who I think has been one of the sort of real pioneers here. He's the guy that actually said to me, amazingly, metformin, which is a generic drug, super cheap, you know, pennies on the dollar, PE for a bucket of it, I should say you can address most, if not all of those hallmarks of aging. So it helps with blood sugar control, it helps with the cellular senescence, it helps with what is known as telomere length, which is the length of your chromosomes, you know, the ends of your chromosomes, all these things. So I thought it was, I thought it was worth it. It's hard to, to know, you know, how well it's actually working. Again, is it going to help me live longer? I'd have to die for that to really be able to answer that question. Right. And then, and then with creatine, I think creatine is the most studied supplement out there. It's really interesting. Obviously, things like vitamin D, they get a lot of studies. But creatine, there's a lot of studies on it, and I think a lot of it came out of the, the fitness community. And, and I think for people who do exercise regularly, it seems to help, it seems to help with muscle mass and bone density and things like that.

[A]

Is it true that it also helps with mental cognition?

[B]

We don't know yet.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This has been the hypothesis.

[A]

So this is really wild. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, because I'll tell you something. About creatine. It was really popular in the late 90s and early 2000s with a lot of high school bullies. Now we're talking about people who put me in headlocks or titty twisters. Do you know what titty twisters are?

[B]

I'm sorry, by the way.

[A]

Yeah. And when it's on raw skin. That's brutal.

[B]

Raw skin.

[A]

Raw skin. Like undershirt off and. Yep, you got that right there. They were on creatine in my mind, when they would do that, do that to me. And sometimes it would break skin, sometimes it wouldn't. I would go, you know what? Your kidneys are going to fail. And I will wait for that day and best believe I will celebrate. Then I come to find out I'm having this conversation with you in 2026, and you're telling me it helps with muscle mass? It's one of the best supplements you

[B]

could take, I think the most studied for sure.

[A]

So here I am. Not taking it for 30 years. Did I up?

[B]

Well, I mean, you did what you thought was best, and I'm sure the titty twisters did not help your thinking about creatine. By the way, did they tell you that I am on creatine and that's why I'm doing this, or how did you put those two things?

[A]

Well, a bunch of those guys would open up those black tubs from GNC.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And that's at the time again, this

[B]

is 13, 14 years old.

[A]

We're 13, 14 years old. Getting after a big dog.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

See, I mean, what you're trying to tell a lot of people, which is like, here's how you have an active, healthy life. Here's how you live a better life. But what you don't understand a lot of young men want to be is they want to be Bron. They want to be him.

[B]

I hear you.

[A]

They want to be the big dog.

[B]

Yeah. And then they can do the titty twister to brown boys like you.

[A]

Sure. Or to any boy.

[B]

Right. But I'm sure it felt very personal.

[A]

It felt extremely personal.

[B]

I mean, how could it not?

[A]

How could it not? Right, Right.

[B]

Yeah. The. The. The creatine, I, I still. I still stand by it. I don't. I don't know that you up necessarily. And. And I. I just started taking it over the last couple of years, so it wasn't like I was somebody who said 30 years ago, this is for me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I did wait for a lot of that data to come out. And, And. And also, I think. I think it does help if you are someone who exercises. If you're someone who really pushes yourself to the limit, it's fascinating the way that it works. You're basically you, you're using creatine to help fuel your cells and specifically fuel something known as the mitochondria, which are the energy sort of part of the cell for most people, daily life. You're not going to exhaust your mitochondria, you're fine. But if you do start to exercise intensely, if you're doing things intensely, creatine gets turned into something known as phosphocreatine, which acts like a good reservoir, I should say, for those cells. So it can help, you know, sort of fill the, fill the gap if you're really starting to run out of energy or something like that. And that's where I think it helps me.

[A]

Let's talk about sleep. How much sleep should you be getting?

[B]

Seven to nine hours.

[A]

Seven to nine hours?

[B]

Yeah. Seven to nine hours.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

You know, I'm starting to get there, I'm starting to get to that point

[A]

now where you need the full nine.

[B]

I don't get to nine, but I'm getting at least seven.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, for a long time I didn't do that. You know, I think for, for a lot of people, maybe yourself included, I, I felt like I could power through that. And what was interesting is that, you know, sleep deprivation for me weirdly enhanced my mood. Like I actually, you know, that punch drunk sort of feeling that you get when you're not, when you're not sleeping enough. I'm not advocating for this. When I get good sleep, I, I just, everything about my performance is better. So in terms of being efficient in life, if I get that amount of sleep, I'm going to actually perform better versus trying to sleep less and, and do more throughout the day. I just, I'm just not going to be as efficient.

[A]

The aura ring, they're the CIA, right?

[B]

Yeah. I don't wear one. I don't wear one.

[A]

Neither do I.

[B]

Do you wear anything to, to track yourself? Just the wedding. Me too.

[A]

Yeah. Married to my wife. And the game.

[B]

And the game.

[A]

You know what it is, by the way? What's up?

[B]

Kidding about the OURA ring. It's not a CIA till now.

[A]

Well, what do you think about it?

[B]

I wear, I wear an apple watch when I exercise because I do like to get that sort of data. My wife wears an OURA ring. She loves it. I just feel like it doesn't do any. Like I Need to tell the time. I, you know, I want it to have more than one function.

[A]

So no smoking now. Did you hear that the UK just banned smoking?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For everyone born after 2008. Do you think we should go that far in the United States?

[B]

I think it has no. No redeeming qualities. And there are very few things that you can say in society that have absolutely no redeeming qualities. Like even food, even the food that we were talking about, the processed food, does provide calories. You know, it does provide something. And, you know, we have a food system that's sort of broken in this regard, that that kind of food is so much cheaper, so much more accessible. You can go to McDonald's and, you know, for family of five, 30, 40 bucks, you can feed them good food is expensive. Tobacco has no redeeming qualities. It's not providing anything. All. All it is is providing potential illness. I'm not a fan of bands, but I think highly educated choice, I think is important.

[A]

Last component, strong social ties. Now I have over 2 million Instagram followers.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Does that count?

[B]

I don't know. Do you think it does?

[A]

I feel connected to a lot of people do.

[B]

I mean, but those Instagram followers, um. This is hard.

[A]

This is a tough question, Doctor, because on one level, the clout makes me feel good and it fills a hole inside of me that I can't quite quantify. But on the other hand, literally anybody can ruin my day.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you gotta live with the good and the bad. Heavy lies in front of clout.

[B]

I think it's so ephemeral.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Having Instagram follow, I mean, I think it's great you have a lot of follow. Yeah. Obviously a lot of people want to follow your work. I think that's great. I think the fact that you can be so dependent on a negative comment from somebody who you don't even know, who may have no interest in benefiting you or harming you, but then says something that makes you feel bad.

[A]

What are the true health benefits of human connection?

[B]

Well, epidemiologically, meaning, if you look at big societies and, and say, hey, look, what do these societies have in common where people are super happy and super healthy? You do find that they're. They're really connected. They have a lot of. Lot of social connection that's sort of baked into society. The way that they live, the way that they move around. They're not living in isol sort of homes. When they go to the store, they do things like, here in New York, you're going to Run into people we know biologically more than we did before in terms of what hormones are released in the body. Oxytocin. That's released. When you have strong social connections, that oxytocin can help grow new brain cells. And I think everything starts with the brain in terms of your likelihood of exercising that day. Making.

[A]

So you're telling me running into people at the grocery store will actually release oxytocin and not trigger anxiety? Because for. I do also have dread of, like, I may walk into this la pen deri here in New York City, and if I see Ronny Chang, I'm gonna be pissed.

[B]

I've heard you. You and have him have beef. You're going on tour together.

[A]

We go on tour to fight.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

We go on tour to fight.

[B]

People like watching it.

[A]

It's a debate to the death.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, we live in America. Do people like watching it? People love it, Right? I mean, you're on stage, you draw blood. Yeah. You're on cnn. You know how it works. You know how the panel works.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, gosh. I don't do many of those panels, though you may have noticed.

[A]

Occasionally they'll pull you into the cupboard sometimes and you gotta put. You gotta put them up in a six and a half minute block before we go down.

[B]

No titty twisters here, I'm telling you.

[A]

Yeah, they're the psychological ones, though.

[B]

The psychological. Yeah. Hold still. I promise this won't hurt.

[A]

Oh, hey there. I was just making some delightful small talk with my employee, Austin. For doing what you love to do, there is nothing better than being surrounded by people who love it as much as you. And if you own your own business, like me, you want to hire employees who love what they do too to boost the overall success of your business, plus make it a pretty great place to work. But how do you find passionate employees who are a good fit for all of your roles? ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try it for [e-mail] ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology finds top talent fast and starts showing your job to qualified candidates immediately. It saves you time and money that you can't afford to waste. So you can hire experienced people right now who are excited about what they do with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself. Go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. It's ZipRecruiter.com Hussin Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com hussin ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire oh shit.

[B]

You know why I love summer? All those plans we made. They finally make it out of the group chat. Seems like there's more time to fit everyone in. Whatever you've got in store this summer, capturing those memories is a must. That's why I love the iPhone 17 Pro I picked up from AT&T. Its center stage front camera auto adjusts a frame to fit everyone into group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone.

[A]

No awkward cropping or asking strangers to take it. Just the perfect group selfie every time. And ATT makes sharing those moments with everyone easy because you gotta share the pic or it didn't happen.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right now at, at and t ask

[B]

how you iPhone 17 Pro on them

[A]

with eligible iPhone trade ins any condition

[B]

requires trade in of iPhone 15+ or higher. Excludes iPhone 16e and 17e.

[A]

Requires eligible plan Terms and restrictions apply. Subject to change. Visit att.com iPhone or visit an ATT store for details.

[B]

Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I. I can't stop scratching my downtown. Mm, yeah. But I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown.

[A]

Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful. Let's talk about this. This is an interesting phenomenon where we always turn to old people for the secrets of how to live longer. Every few months there's this story. Hey, meet this woman. She lived to be 108. But usually their lives and their tips are crazy. A flossy.

[B]

The people on TV want to know what the secret is to being able to live so long. I don't know. I don't fight it. You can nap many times as I can. No, I've got no secrets at all. Well, I just avoid dying, do everything wrong.

[A]

Drink regular Coke.

[B]

Don't drink diet Coke. The doctor put me on Little Hennessy in 1972 because I had poor circulation. I like Jameson. Irish whiskey. It's spaghetti.

[A]

I like spaghetti red sauce.

[B]

You're drinking Dr. Pepper right now. That stuff is good. It's got sugar in it. Two doctors have told me that if I drink it, I will die. But they died first. Are you excited for your party? Not one bit.

[A]

So should we take advice from them?

[B]

Those are great stories to tell, and I think that's why they get so much attention. You know, they're the contrarians to everything else. They're the ones who made it despite all those things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's a great story to tell, and I think for a lot of people who want some validation that, hey, I'm going to be okay, despite drinking a lot of Diet Coke or. Or smoking even, or whatever it might be, those are the stories that they turn to. But that's not what, you know, the actual broad data shows. Yeah.

[A]

What would you tell people? They're watching TV and they see Warren Buffett eats McDonald's and Dairy Queen every day. The President of the United States is chugging diet soda and eating McDonald's on the regular. They're never gonna die. That's actually my theory. They're gonna live to be 118. So what do you tell people at home that are in their 40s and 50s that are like, you're telling me I can't have a PBR and Shake Shack? Let me go hard in the paint like Warren?

[B]

Sometimes. Sometimes, Occasionally. The problem is, again, for the vast majority of people, but Buffett's at the

[A]

drive through every day.

[B]

I know he is. But, you know, think about some of these people that we're talking about. They also have a lot of other advantages that most people don't have. Okay, they're getting a lot of healthcare. They're getting, you know, probably regularly tested. They may be taking a lot of medications. Is that the life you want to lead? You know, could you potentially, through the modern healthcare system, live a really, really terrible life in terms of your activities and your diet and things like that and still live a long time? Yeah, you could, potentially, but you're not going to feel good, and you're probably going to end up on a lot of meds, probably need operations, all that sort of stuff.

[A]

One of the things that you've covered in your work and in some of the docu series that you've done is you've gone in deep on the secrets of Japan. Now, people in Japan, famously, have been known to live longer. What did you learn from the Japanese about living longer?

[B]

There was. There was a lot of. A lot of things that I think formulated my thinking mostly from the Okinawans, this. This island off the coast of Japan. And a lot of it had to do with the things that we're talking about. You know, the regular activity, not just going to the gym for an hour a day, but just. Just the regular activity, you know, you human. Humans weren't meant to either sit or lie for 23 hours and then get up and go to the gym for an hour. They just bake these things into their lifestyle. But I think one of the big ones was they don't really retire. And there's not even a word for retirement in Okinawa, which I thought was really interesting. There was these studies that came out that found when people retire and they talk about all these things they want to do when they retire, I'm going to exercise more when I retire. I'm going to get my life in order when I retire. They find that despite the fact that they have more time, they actually are less likely to do those things. So actually staying active, even in a job, still makes you more likely to engage in healthier behaviors. Doesn't. Doesn't work for everybody, but. But I do think it's interesting. When you start to just give yourself unlimited time to do things, you become far less likely to do those things. To put yourself on the clock, either through a job or something else, makes you more likely to engage in behavior. So they. They don't retire. They.

[A]

They keep really active throughout after 75, besides WhatsApp, a lot of them are still working.

[B]

They're still working.

[A]

Doing what, though? Because we have the Internet. Have you seen boomers on the Internet?

[B]

I know, I know. By the way you talked about your screen time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The screen time for people over the age of 60 is close to like, some 10 hours plus now, on average, which is. Which is nuts.

[A]

Which is insane. We're going to get to that in a minute. But I have a theory. I've been thinking about this for years. I was like, what is it about the Japanese that make them live so long? Is it. It how active they are? Is it the anime? I have a theory. Maybe people in Japan are living longer because of this show. Let's take a look.

[B]

What are we watching here?

[A]

That's a prank show.

[B]

Where do they electrocute them or do they.

[A]

That is someone getting shot, but it's fake.

[B]

Fake, yeah.

[A]

Now, is that the secret to living longer, which is shorten one person's lifespan, the person who's terrified so that everybody else can laugh and live longer? No.

[B]

No, it's not okay. I mean, the idea of being terrified like that, thinking you're about to die, does that lead to a longer life?

[A]

No. I mean, that guy's got to go. So, you know, he's been sacrificed because he thought he was part of a bank shooting or an office shooting. Okay.

[B]

Is that what was going on there?

[A]

That's what was happening.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I. How do you. How did you find that?

[A]

I mean, I told you, I'm on. I have six and a half hours of screen time a day. Now. Let's talk about this, which is because I am on the Internet looking for the answer. There are so many people on YouTube giving medical advice, and this is tough because some of them are actually doctors.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do I make sense of this? Because Maryland. Good. YouTube bad. How do I know if the person that I am subscribed to is giving me good advice or if they're just a bad faith grifter?

[B]

This is really challenging nowadays. And there's great content out there on YouTube and there's terrible content.

[A]

Are you serious?

[B]

I'm serious. There's really good content there and there's terrible content. I think the problem is the average consumer has a really hard time distinguishing between the two. You know, basic rules apply. If something seems too good to be true, it's probably too good to be true. I think if you're not seeing it validated elsewhere, like if you see it on one YouTube channel and that's it, and you're not hearing about it elsewhere, it's probably something that someone is just making money off of, off of you. You know, you're the product at that point, you're being sold something. There's no regulation around it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, look at CNN and, you know, you hear what's going on with CNN and this administration and all that and being called fake news. Gutless losers. I say that to CNN because I watch it. I have no choice. I got to watch that garbage. It's all garbage. It's all fake news. If people were to come, spend a day inside CNN and just say, okay, just talk me through this. Here's the story idea over here. Between story idea and story going on the air, show me all the various steps that occurred to make it actually happen. The number of people who weighed in, the amount of fact checking, the amount of reviewing of the scripts, getting. Getting people from standards and practices involved, all that sort of stuff. There's a whole process. I mean, that is how you arrive, I think, at the. The most vetted, validated sort of form of content that doesn't happen in a lot of places. Again, it's not to suggest that what you see on YouTube is necessarily going to be problematic all the time, but it doesn't go through the same process.

[A]

Have you heard about people turning to Google Gemini for healthcare advice?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And Claude and ChatGPT and all kinds of stuff.

[A]

How do you feel about this?

[B]

My general thinking on these sorts of things, this is happening. So I think, you know, the idea of sort of trying to pretend that it's not going to happen is probably not a good approach. Claude now has a program where you can load up your entire medical record and. And basically have it summarize, you know, your entire life's worth the medical record. Summarize this in a paragraph or a page for me. Give me the best sort of plan going forward based on everything that's out there in terms of supplements, in terms of medications. I shouldn't walk 10,000 steps. I should walk 11,000 steps. Like, what is the ideal way to live for me? I think these AI platforms can start to get there. They do make errors. You know, everyone talks about the errors. Humans make errors as well. So, you know, I think it's a little bit, you know, you get a little bit of the same risk there. I think the concerns about privacy are real. Although, I'll tell you, I have three. Three kids, three girls, 21, 19 and 17. And when I talk to them about things like that, like, would you load all of your medical records onto Claude? Wouldn't you worry that that could potentially violate your privacy or somebody might get a hold of that? The premium that we played placed on privacy. I did. They just don't seem to place the same premium on privacy. Like, dad, why would anyone care about my medical record? Like, what are they going to do with that? It's. It's a very different sort of environment. So I think it's happening. If you wanted to load your medical records onto Claude and say, optimize my life, make my life as optimized as

[A]

possible, but what if it gets it wrong?

[B]

It can get it wrong. It can get. And so I think you have to validate, just like you probably would with a doctor. You may want to, you know, do what they call human in the loop. So, you know, trust you. You keep a human involved somehow. So you trust what you're hearing, but then you verify it. Hey, this is what it told me. It told me that I should take 5 grams of creatine a day. Does that make sense?

[A]

How does that feel for you? Got it.

[B]

Do that with your doctor, that kind of thing.

[A]

I mean, I don't know if this is an indictment on the individual or the system at large. I'll give you an example. So my shoulder's been clicking. And I'm not just doing this because I have a Doctor here, I don't know what's going on. And I would go see my doctor and I'm just doing the cough test and he's like, look, I'm here to just focus on the cough thing. Turn right and cough. And we haven't gotten to this. So I go to Google Gemini and. And I come to find out it's called shoulder subluxination.

[B]

Shoulder subluxation.

[A]

That's what I've been trying to say. I haven't been able to talk to a doctor, so thank you for pronouncing it for me.

[B]

You're welcome, yes. AI should have told you that though,

[A]

how to pronounce it. Yeah, I was in the back of an Uber and I just don't want to like have it do that while someone's driving me to a comedy gig. I say that to say, isn't that sad that I couldn't get it from the human medical field because I'd have to book an appointment and he's going to get me to a specialist. And I'm like, you know what? Gemini's just scraped every kind of Reddit thread and WebMD thread there is totally. Hey, you have shoulder sublimated submarine.

[B]

Exactly. The idea that it would open up every Reddit thread, like, you know, when you look at an AI platform, does it open up everything? Are you basically taking the totality of society and saying, give me the best thing, whether it be peer reviewed papers, whether it be a Reddit stream, things on social media, and give me the best answer here? This is a big debate, I think right now with regard to AI and health care. There are certain platforms. One of them is called open evidence, for example. It will just use peer reviewed data. If you're going there, you're basically getting a sort of a summary of thousands and thousands of journals in this case about your shoulder. If you look at some platforms, they're giving you the whole world in terms of what people might think is making your shoulder click. And people have varying opinions on which is better. Some people say, look, look, I just want peer reviewed stuff, but that moves slow. Something happened with shoulder subluxation over here in a small clinic in Taiwan. I want to know about that. What are they doing for Taiwan, you know, that sort of thing. Right, exactly. So I think that this is a big debate. A lot of people are using a lot of doctors. I think more than 50% of doctors and nurses are using open evidence now. They'll use it in the office and they will use it for their own personal health care. And things like that. I think that that's, that is where we are headed. And so for you, that's probably what I would recommend. The second point you're making about access, this is a huge problem, Hasan. I mean, I think the idea that there are people who simply can't get access to healthcare. I just did a story about people who live in rural areas in eastern Colorado. There's not a single licensed cancer doctor. Half of the state. There's no people to treat cancer. It's remarkable.

[A]

In Colorado.

[B]

Eastern Colorado, wow. We live a lot of miles away from anything when people are that sick. It is horrible, the travel. If Dr. Hoyer and his team wasn't available down here, I would not have made the trips to Colorado Springs or Denver. Like, what are they to do? You know, folks, right now you have doctors who are basically driving from Colorado Springs 400 miles, seeing a bunch of rural clinics and taking care of patients. Those people are going to go to AI.

[A]

Yeah. And I want to piggyback off this idea because I'm sure you deal with this paradox now, which is we have so much information, literally every peer reviewed medical journal you could ever think of in PDF form that's available to be scraped by every AI platform there is, and yet people are still misinformed. So because I have the Dr. Sanjay Gupta here in a chair across from me, can we do just a quick medical misinformation for our audience?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, great. I'm gonna list some health claims that I've seen online and you tell me whether it's true or false.

[B]

Okay. You just want one word answer. Sure.

[A]

And if you feel like it needs more, then by all means. But I just want to let you know people are watching this while they're on the train with one AirPod in and. Or while they're in the bathroom taking a shit, avoiding their family. I just want to let you know that that is 100% the truth and that's where people are. And I'm not here to impose judgment. I'm meeting the audience where they are. The flu shot gives you the flu.

[B]

No. False.

[A]

But isn't it a dead virus?

[B]

Dead virus. So it can't give you the flu.

[A]

So when people say that you get a little bit sick after, is that true?

[B]

The body responds to the shot. You feel inflammation, you may have a sore arm. As a result, it can't give you the flu because it's not the flu virus. It's, it's, it's a dead virus. It's just basically designed to Induce your immune response. This is, this has been a myth since I've been a reporter 25 years.

[A]

Raw milk is good for you.

[B]

Raw milk's bad for you.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

It has all kinds of bacteria. It could potentially make you sick. That's why we pasteurize things. This is like an example of devolution of society. We figured this out a long time ago. I saved a lot of lives as a result of that.

[A]

Does WI fi cause cancer?

[B]

There's no cause and effect there. There is some concern about what is called non ionizing radiation. We know ionizing radiation cause cancer. That's too many X rays, microwaves, things like that. Non ionizing radiation. Putting a phone close to your ear, earbuds. There's no, there's not been cause and effect sort of findings. We don't know. So I think jury's out a little bit on that still, but no cause and effect.

[A]

Measles isn't as bad as a measles vaccine.

[B]

False.

[A]

A juice cleanse will detoxify your body.

[B]

False.

[A]

Raw potato juice helps strep throat.

[B]

I hadn't even heard that one.

[A]

I thought I saw a tick tock on it. I I Raw potato juice will cure strep throat.

[B]

I no, I don't, I don't even know where that comes from.

[A]

You should leave a comment on that video. I don't even know.

[B]

Doesn't know.

[A]

Inserting garlic cloves into your nostrils relieves congestion.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

It does make you look insane, though.

[B]

It does. I'm not saying it's good for you, but would it actually relieve congestion? I think there's other much safer ways.

[A]

How about this one? You should take this thing. They also give it to horses.

[B]

No. False. This is the one I can't figure out. Like why? Why did that happen? Maybe. Do you know?

[A]

If you want my short answer, I can give it to you right now. Every institution has failed us. Education is crumbling. There is no such thing as true healthcare for all Americans. There are a number of pedophiles that don't go to jail. But for some reason I have to pay a parking ticket. One that I know and love. Seems to be lying to. Maybe the answer is somewhere else.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

Look, look, I, I don't understand. I, I don't get. I. What I'm empathizing with is I understand people's frustration and lack of access to institutions that should take care of them.

[B]

Them.

[A]

And when that is in a vacuum, people will go to many different places for relief.

[B]

I totally Agree with that. But those places they're going are taking advantage of them in some way.

[A]

Okay, so sometimes I'll go in for a sports massage and someone will say, this removes toxins. What are toxins? And aren't they bullshit?

[B]

I think what they're often referring to are sort of byproducts from the food that we eat, the environmental exposures. Our cells, you know, when they metabolize, they give off these byproducts. Your liver does a phenomenally good job of detoxifying your body. So, you know, might these things help a little bit? Perhaps. But to give context, we're talking maybe 100 to 1.

[A]

Right, but what specifically are toxins? I mean, it's. It's literally from the. The outside world. Like the air that I'm breathing and the food that I'm eating.

[B]

Yeah, a lot of it's from this, from environmental exposures. But also your. When your cells metabolize, when your cells divide, they do give off these byproducts as well, which your body is constantly flushing out.

[A]

Okay, and the liver, our liver and the human liver is probably the most effective way to detoxify.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

Okay, got it. Because for the longest time, I just understood it as bad vibes.

[B]

No, they're actual things. It's something that can harm the cells of your body, typically.

[A]

And are you telling me the liver does the best job at detoxifying? Better than what, anything you can get at Trader Joe's Erewhon. Or some random dude who's trying to get me to. To go to his massage parlor?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Hey, out of curiosity, if we're talking about toxins, why isn't there more work on those larger systemic environmental factors? Meaning polluted air, polluted water?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wouldn't that be a more efficacious way to remove both toxins and bad vibes?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. On the toxins and microplastics. But there is this contention, though, with just living in a society where you want things to be super easy. Plastics, for example, make things super easy. And yet they. They are toxifying our bodies. We have a really hard time getting rid of those things. So it's, it's, it's convenience over, over health. Now that we're seeing what plastics actually do to the body. You're finding plastics in your blood vessels, they're finding plastics in the brain. Microplastics and nanoplastics. Some people have said microplastics in the body are as big a risk factor for heart disease as cholesterol. So, you know, I Think we're starting to become increasingly aware of it, but it's taken a long time.

[A]

I saw on an Instagram thread that I have enough microplastics in my brain that's the size of a credit card. Is that true?

[B]

We do carry a lot of plastics in our body. Maybe a credit card's worth in our entire body. I think that's what I've seen.

[A]

Okay. We've known this for years, though, intuitively, like when I drink out of a plastic crystal geyser bottle, I know it doesn't taste like water. It kind of tastes like water that was microwaved inside of a Ziploc bag.

[B]

Really? Did you microwave it?

[A]

No. You had the water tastes plasticky.

[B]

There's a lot of plastics in all these products. I think we are going to move away from that. I mean, I'm starting to use products like even things that we know are not going to give off plastics that are going to be much more durable, more expensive.

[A]

How do we get ahead of this? Because every time I get a new pan or I get a new Stanley, then a few weeks later, I see Sanjay Gupta on CNN telling me breaking news that's also killing you. So what do I do?

[B]

I think for now, if you can avoid plastics, that's probably the biggest thing you can do and should do.

[A]

As much as we make fun of RFK junior On this show.

[B]

Hey, everybody. These are my two ravens. I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice from me.

[A]

There's a couple things that we actually agree with him on. Are there things that you agree with him on? Because I have two.

[B]

It's hard to find those things because the one thing I think I did agree with him on for a long time was the potential harms of. Of glyphosate, which is Roundup. You know, it's a pesticide. I think he did incredible work on that. And, you know, these various cancer organizations declare this a possible or probable carcinogen. And yet, you know, he is in favor, apparently, of making it more available. Now, the president has said this is a national security issue to. To make sure we have plenty of glyphosate in the. In the. In our agriculture. And rfk, who campaigned on this, made his entire career on this, was up there, I think, supporting the president. So I think it's increasingly hard to find things that I agree with him on.

[A]

Well, there's one thing that he said is he has been a huge advocate of cutting sugar and processed food. How bad is sugar and processed food to Our health.

[B]

It's terrible. There's no question. I think processed.

[A]

You define terrible. Like, I'm having a can of Pepsi with two delicious slices of New York City pizza.

[B]

Right? For a young person who basically lives their entire life eating that sort of food, we know that it's probably going to be associated with all sorts of chronic diseases, autoimmune disease, and probably a shorter lifespan. And you're right. That is probably one area, I think, of widespread agreement. I think everyone agrees with this, and people have been talking about this for a long time. I think the real question is what's going to be done about it? How is that actually going to be addressed? And I haven't really seen any movement in this regard.

[A]

There's another thing that I agree with him on and yeah, I get it. I've dunked on him before on the show. I'll probably dunk on him again. But there is another thing that I agree with him on, which is banning D2C pharmaceutical ads. Let's take a look. Do you have metastatic breast cancer? Unfolding more of your story may be possible with Trucap. Trucap is taken with filvestrin for people with HR positive herd with abnormal PIK3CA

[B]

AKT1 or PTEN genes and progression on

[A]

or after hormone therapy. In fact, trucap fulvestrant may give you twice as much time without your cancer

[B]

growing or spreading than Fulvestrant alone. If you have metastatic breast cancer, ask

[A]

your doctor if trucat plus fulvestrant is right for you. What the hell is happening here? You started nodding to this ad. I'm watching this as a civilian being like, what the is if you have metastatic cancer? Find out if true cap is right for. I have to watch an ad on cnn. Tell me if I need to get this drug. If I have metastatic cancer, shouldn't my doctor be telling me you should get this drug? Yeah, why do I have to watch Stanley Tucci searching for Italy? Stick around for the ad break. See this ad go. Let me call my doctor to find out if true cap is right for me.

[B]

Yeah, it does seem pretty backwards. For sure. You should be getting this from your doctor in the first place.

[A]

So how do you feel about this, just philosophically at large because this is CNN's revenue.

[B]

Well, I was nodding because I didn't understand a lot of what they were talking about either. They were talking about specific gene mutations, like, you know, those gene mutations that they're talking about. I. I was really surprised that they Put that in.

[A]

So you don't understand what that is?

[B]

No, I think.

[A]

Austin, play it again. We have a doctor here. Let's try to make sense of this. Okay, so she's wistfully thinking and looking out into the distance. Now all of a sudden, her journal has come to life. Okay, so far, positive pixie through the AKT1 P10KG. I don't know what.

[B]

I didn't know what all those gene mutations were.

[A]

You don't know what those are?

[B]

No.

[A]

Well, now she's walking into the movie theater and now she's camping.

[B]

I just find it interesting. I find it interesting that they put all that in a television ad for the lay public.

[A]

Here's the crazy part. It just ended the commercial with ask your doctor. I asked a doctor and he's like, I have no idea.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I just watched.

[B]

Presumably if. And it's a very targeted group. It's people with metastatic breast cancer. They should go to their doctor first.

[A]

And by the way, I just want to give you just a fun fact. We cut out 90 seconds. I wondered because of side effect warnings, right?

[B]

I wondered where the side effect warnings were.

[A]

Side effects, including high blood sugar, diarrhea, and skin reactions, are common with True cat and maybe severe.

[B]

Your doctor will monitor your blood sugar.

[A]

Tell your doctor right away if you increase thirst, increase urinary weight loss, diarrhea, fever, rash, eyes or mouth confusion, low vision, or difficulty breathing. These are not all the possible side effects of True Cap TRUCAP can harm an unborn baby. Untreated high blood sugar can lead to treatment in the hospital or death. Picture this. You're finally taking time to clean out your gutters. Not fun, but hey, good for you. Your elbows deep in soggy leaves. And then suddenly, the smoke alarm starts blaring from inside. Smoke pours out the window. What do you do? ADTs do it yourself systems are built for those moments in your life where when everything turns on a dime, they're affordable, easy to set up, and the ADT app keeps you in control 24. 7. From virtually anywhere, tackle your to do list knowing that your home is protected. When every second Counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT ASAP. Praised as Hulu's fresh spin on crime comedy by Variety, Deli boys returns on May 28th. Philly's favorite corner store, Criminal Family, is back. The Darbiz is booming, but their money needs laundering asap. Enter Max Sugar, Casino king and Lucky, Auntie's newest toxic situationship played by Fred Armisen. More money, more problems and more guest stars including Andrew Reynolds, Kumail Nanjiani and Lilly Singh. The all new season of the Hulu original series Deli Boys premieres May 28th. Streaming now on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundled subscribers. Terms apply

[B]

now.

[A]

I dunk on boomers all the time who don't understand the Internet, but there's also a lot of young kids on the Internet. Now. This is just a hot take. Is brain rot essentially just dementia for young people?

[B]

No, but it has a lot of the same symptoms. Dementia is a real thing. I mean, these are. These are. This is a pathology in the brain. People who have problems with sustained attention due to, you know, doom scrolling on the Internet and stuff like that, they can have many of those same symptoms.

[A]

What are the symptoms?

[B]

Memory loss, inability to pay attention to things, inability to focus, you know, difficulties with sleep, difficulties forming relationships. All sorts of things which can have a lot of overlap with dementia. So similar symptoms, different causes.

[A]

Other than watching less cnn, what is something people can do to increase their attention and keep their brain healthy?

[B]

Read books. Spend time with other humans. Work on projects that are not on a screen the way that we used to live 20, 30 years ago probably be a pretty good example. Before a lot of these screens became so ubiquitous, we had a lot more sustained attention at that time.

[A]

Read books. That's tough. That's tough because I have some younger cousins who saw the trailer for the Odyssey, Christopher Nolan's. And my cousin texted me and he's like, bro, I can't wait to see how this ends. And I had to tell him, it's a book. You can look it up right now. You can see how the Odyssey ends. It's written by Homer and the ending is available right now.

[B]

I've got to think that this isn't a linear trajectory towards more and more of what you're describing. I've got to believe that. Otherwise, I think we're doomed. I mean, we're just not going to be able to pay attention to anything long enough to actually get anything done. At some point, I think there's going to be a. A sort of correction, if you will. I. I have to hope so.

[A]

Well, how do you feel about it in relation to your daughters? You have three amazing daughters. Are. Are they pretty sharp or is the brain applesauce at this point?

[B]

No, I think. I think they're. They're pretty sharp. But look, I think they have the same issues that I think a lot of other people. Three teenage girls The. The idea that they're. They're spending way too much time on screens, what that's doing to their brains, their ability to. To just pay attention to things. Their mom and I have tried to do a lot to correct that. It's tough. They have this fear of being isolated if they're not connecting with people. I think the pandemic worsened that for them. At that time, social media was one of the only ways they stayed connected, at least for several months or a year. So not surprising.

[A]

Can I ask you this? Do crossword puzzles help, or is that just propaganda from big crossword?

[B]

I think crossword puzzles can help, but I think if you do a lot of crossword puzzles, you'll probably get really good at doing crossword puzzles. If you're trying to make your brain sharper, that it's memory, it's processing speed, it's all these different things.

[A]

What you're talking about is this idea of mental fitness. You've written about mental fitness in 2024, after that first Trump versus Biden debate, you got up in there and you wrote on CNN that President Biden should, quote, undergo detailed cognitive and neurological testing. God damn.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I didn't know you carried a gun on you because you. Maryland, emptied the clip on Joseph Robinette Biden. There was a drumbeat of coverage for years talking about Biden's age and mental capacity. Why hasn't the media brought the same heat for Donald Trump?

[B]

I think they have. I mean, we've been talking about it with Donald Trump for some time, going back to even, you know, first term. So it's been out there for a while. I think the idea of advocating for testing, this is something that's been a big debate overall, I think, for presidential candidates. When it came to physical fitness, when it came to mental fitness,

[A]

you know,

[B]

the idea that someone would go through basic cognitive testing to have that job. So something Nikki Haley talked about. I fundamentally agree with that. As a brain scientist, maybe. Maybe President Biden would have done those tests and people would have actually been surprised because his debate performance did not reveal that that night. But keep in mind, the next day after that debate, he got up for an hour and a half and did a press conference. No notes on everything that was happening. From a foreign policy standpoint, look, I

[A]

wouldn't have picked Vice President Trump to

[B]

be vice president, but I think she was not qualified to be president. So let's start there.

[A]

When it comes to President Biden, they talk about dementia. But then when it comes to President Trump, they say he's demented. Is there a difference? Aren't they equally bad from a medical perspective?

[B]

Yeah. It's interesting. I hadn't really thought about the language that much, but just the term demented, like the dementors from Harry Potter. It's a pejorative term.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, most, most neuroscientists don't really use that term. They talk about something specific.

[A]

Okay, so be specific when you see his full on all caps truth social posts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Happy Easter. We're gonna bomb Iran. Allahu Akbar. What's your assessment of that as a medical professional?

[B]

I think someone who's become disinhibited more than diminished.

[A]

What does disinhibited mean?

[B]

You've lost your ability to inhibit, self regulate, use judgment in terms of how you transmit a message or talk to someone.

[A]

So he's combining too many ideas into a soup that seems dementia ish, but

[B]

more demented stream of consciousness flight of ideas. I think a lot of that comes back to just being. People may have all these ideas, but then you formulate it into a message that's coherent in some way. If you're disinhibited, you're just basically putting, putting it all out there. So I still think this is probably more disinhibition, but it's really hard. I mean, the testing that I was referring to in that, in that article, it's extensive testing. These are hard things to know just by looking at one debate performance or certainly one social post to really understand what's going on. But it's, but it's smacks of disinhibition, of not regulating yourself.

[A]

When he says, I got checked out by my doctor and he says, I'm in great shape.

[B]

Donald Trump's very, very large a brain.

[A]

What do you think of that?

[B]

Well, so he had a screening test for, for a type of dementia. It's called the Montreal Cognitive Assessment. Like you'll go, person, woman, man, camera, tv. So they say, could you repeat that? So I said, yeah. So it's person, woman, man, camera, tv. It's just a screening test. It's not a diagnostic test of any sort. It is, you know, it's pretty commonly used. And apparently he's taken it twice or three times now and said he scored 100% or got a perfect score each time. It's just checking, basically screening for that one specific thing, not diagnosing or eliminating other things.

[A]

Okay. With respect to President Trump and your professional medical opinion, dude's crazy though, right?

[B]

It's really hard for, I think Anybody, doctors included, to look at somebody on a screen and make an assessment about them. People can be very strategic in how they behave. So you're looking at it, you're saying, he's crazy. Maybe it's a strategy. I don't know. That's why you do detailed testing and figure out, is someone actually not thinking clearly?

[A]

So hypothetically, you were his physician and you had, let's say, an hour or two to screen him. What are the things that you would take him through to find out? Are you just nuts and awesome one, or are you actually exhibiting forms of dementia?

[B]

I went through some of this testing myself when I was working on a documentary. And it's hours of testing, and it's everything from looking at memory to looking at processing speed, trying to measure empathy, looking at all these things in terms of your thinking patterns over time. It's pretty exhaustive to sort of do that. And even for neurologists, they have a hard time ultimately making a conclusion as to whether or not someone truly has dementia. There's no specific biomarker or something like a cholesterol test to say this person is actually that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you have to look at them over time.

[A]

Doctor, let's just take it out of the realm of politics, because I don't want to mess up your bag, and I don't want you to end up on the gutters of YouTube like me. I want to talk to you about how we treat old people in American society. So I want to play a clip for you. And this is from the legendary Frankie Valli.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So how should I feel about this? Is this elder abuse? Is this sad? Is this for the fans? Is he having a great time?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or is that Al Pacino on his own back?

[B]

I think the third question you asked is probably the most relevant, is what does he feel about it? Is this for him? Does he feel honored by this in some way? Does he feel like he's just been made to do this and act like a puppet on stage in some way? It's a tough one.

[A]

I mean, you saw Jimmy Carter's 100th birthday, right? You saw the photos. Yeah, it's fucked up, right?

[B]

Yeah, it was sad. That was sad. I mean, and, you know, you see him come out, he's obviously not communicating anymore. He's not. You know, he's had these terrible diagnoses. He had a head injury, cancer, obviously, all that. I think someone like him, I think the idea that. That this could feel like it's honoring him in some way, that the Fans are responding to that. I mean, I think you have to have lines, but I think those lines are probably different for everybody. What was the reaction overall? I mean, the reviews and stuff? Did people sort of share your sentiment to this performance? Yeah.

[A]

Dr. Gupta, with all due respect, Gen Z now uses this as a meme to make fun of boomers. That's why I'm asking you, as a medical professional, as we live longer, what does a productive, healthy life look like?

[B]

I think if you feel like you still have meaning, if you're deriving meaning from your work, I mean, healthy enough. I mean, obviously, we all age, we're gonna become less. Less able to do the things that we used to do in. But, you know, to get up on stage, he's obviously not singing, but, you know, the idea that he'd still be up there.

[A]

He was singing.

[B]

Was he singing? Yeah, he was, but that wasn't his voice in the back.

[A]

He was singing. Right, right.

[B]

Assisting.

[A]

Assist.

[B]

Assisting. Like, you know, I think about my own parents.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and they're in their 80s, and they love to still get up and do things. And I think it gives them so much meaning in their lives. It helps be an antidote for the isolation, the lack of meaning that I think comes to a lot of people near the end of their lives. So I think you have to have lines, but I think for every, Every, every individual, those lines are going to be different.

[A]

Got it. Final thoughts? Anything you want to leave us with?

[B]

No, you know, I. I think 25 years now, I've been doing this job. I think it's interesting. I thought. I thought one of the things we were going to talk about was just sort of, you know, being Indian and South Asian on television.

[A]

I mean, you did the most Indian thing, which was medical advice.

[B]

Yeah, right. I think. But, you know, when I started doing this, Apu from the Simpsons was the guy on television.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I think 25 years later, like, what are the attitudes towards South Asians on screen? How has that changed? Will it continue to change? What does it mean for our kids?

[A]

We've made progress, haven't we?

[B]

I think we have.

[A]

I mean, Zoran Mamdani is president, and every week the New York Post says he did 9, 11. So who says we haven't made strides? Am I right, brother?

[B]

I think despite those things, seriously, we have made strides. I mean.

[A]

Yeah, it's beautiful. It is a beautiful thing. Yeah. I think the world your kids live in, my children live in, it's gonna be great. Brown boys are up. It's Brown boy. Summer, obviously you're taking care of your body. You look phenomenal. May God please make me look like you in 20 years. Dr. Sundry, thank you so much for being a part of this show. What an honor. Thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Have you subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet? You can listen completely ad free and get access to exclusive bonus content you want. You won't hear anywhere else. Like my discussion with Malala on how therapy changed her life. Or my convo with Mel Robbins on how her let them theory applies to parenting. Tap subscribe on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to sign up on any app that's lemonadapremium.com.