JJ Redick On The Future of The NBA

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know - "JJ Redick On The Future of The NBA"

Episode Overview In the August 5, 2024 episode of "Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know," Hasan Minhaj engages in an in-depth conversation with two-time Peabody Award-winning comedian and NBA analyst, JJ Redick. The episode delves into various facets of basketball, including the evolution of NBA strategies, the impact of international players, critiques of sports media, and the intricacies of NBA officiating. Minhaj and Redick navigate through technical basketball analyses, personal anecdotes, and broader discussions about the sport's future.

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1. Critique of Sports Media and ESPN

The conversation opens with a strong critique of contemporary sports media, particularly targeting ESPN and personalities like Stephen A. Smith. Minhaj expresses his disdain for the sensationalism and lack of substantive analysis prevalent in sports broadcasting.

• Hasan Minhaj ([00:30]): "Try watching ESPN. First Take feels like I'm living inside Stephen A. Smith's demented fever dream."

Redick echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the chaotic nature of current sports media and the degradation of authentic sports analysis.

• JJ Redick ([01:35]): "Y'all look like trash."

2. JJ Redick's Role and Promotion to Lakers Coach

The episode transitions to celebrating JJ Redick’s accomplishments in sports broadcasting and his unexpected promotion to head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers.

• Hasan Minhaj ([02:15]): "JJ Redick has been dominating the sports podcast scene for years."

Redick humorously navigates the anticipation and surprise surrounding his new role, highlighting the excitement within the NBA community.

• JJ Redick ([02:50]): "Welcome to the most coveted interview of the NBA offseason."

3. Evolution of NBA Strategies: The Five-Out Offense

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the evolution of NBA offensive strategies, particularly the adoption of the five-out system. Minhaj and Redick dissect its effectiveness in maximizing spacing and versatility on the court.

• Hasan Minhaj ([06:01]): "Sometimes it's nice to have a leafy green salad, you know what I mean?"

• JJ Redick ([07:21]): "Five out opens up multiple different offensive schemes. It's not just get the ball and go bing, bing, bing and score."

They analyze specific plays, player movements, and how coaches implement these strategies to adapt to modern basketball's demands.

4. Deep Dive into Specific NBA Plays and Player Analysis

The hosts delve into detailed analyses of iconic NBA plays, evaluating player decisions, positioning, and execution. Minhaj breaks down LeBron James' game-winning shot against the Chicago Bulls in 2015, highlighting the nuances that drive his frustration with certain plays.

• Hasan Minhaj ([15:19]): "The initial body position you are taught... it's an insane shot by LeBron."

Redick complements this by discussing the importance of synergy between players like Jokic and Gordon, emphasizing the need for complementary skill sets.

• JJ Redick ([26:37]): "There's still synergy between your players that is beautiful."

5. International Influence and Player Development in the NBA

The conversation shifts to the impact of globalization on the NBA, comparing the development pathways of international players like Luka Doncic and Ricky Rubio with American counterparts involved in AAU basketball.

• Hasan Minhaj ([30:22]): "Player development within the US has become... putting people in game-like environments and then drilling that."

Redick critiques the American AAU system for its lack of continuity and emphasizes the benefits of international training programs that foster teamwork and in-game adaptability.

• JJ Redick ([32:50]): "Once that becomes ingrained in your brain, then it becomes a habit."

6. Criticism of NBA's Last Two Minutes Report (L2M)

A contentious topic arises around the NBA's Last Two Minutes (L2M) report, which reviews referees' decisions in the game's final moments without implementing corrections. Both hosts express frustration over its ineffectiveness and its role in eroding trust among fans, coaches, and players.

• Hasan Minhaj ([34:52]): "They should get rid of it. Our refs don't deserve that."

• JJ Redick ([35:09]): "They're getting it wrong like this, it's gonna end up like American democracy."

They argue that the L2M report fails to address the core issues of officiating accuracy and transparency, comparing its impact to detrimental effects seen in other institutional trust frameworks.

7. The Future of the NBA and Emerging Stars

Concluding the episode, Minhaj and Redick speculate on the future trajectory of the NBA, discussing potential shifts back to big man dominance with players like Giannis Antetokounmpo and the emergence of new talents who could redefine the league's landscape.

• Hasan Minhaj ([28:25]): "Ant could be that guy. He's got a personality. He's funny as fuck. He's competitive."

Redick emphasizes the importance of evolving player skills and the necessity for the league to adapt to maintain its global appeal and competitive integrity.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Hasan Minhaj [00:30]: "Try watching ESPN. First Take feels like I'm living inside Stephen A. Smith's demented fever dream."

• JJ Redick [01:35]: "Y'all look like trash."

• Hasan Minhaj [06:01]: "Sometimes it's nice to have a leafy green salad, you know what I mean?"

• JJ Redick [07:21]: "Five out opens up multiple different offensive schemes. It's not just get the ball and go bing, bing, bing and score."

• Hasan Minhaj [15:19]: "The initial body position you are taught... it's an insane shot by LeBron."

• JJ Redick [26:37]: "There's still synergy between your players that is beautiful."

• Hasan Minhaj [30:22]: "Player development within the US has become... putting people in game-like environments and then drilling that."

• JJ Redick [35:09]: "They're getting it wrong like this, it's gonna end up like American democracy."

• Hasan Minhaj [28:25]: "Ant could be that guy. He's got a personality. He's funny as fuck. He's competitive."

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Conclusion

This episode of "Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know" offers a comprehensive exploration of modern basketball's challenges and transformations. Through candid dialogue and expert analysis, Hasan Minhaj and JJ Redick shed light on the intricacies of NBA strategies, the influence of international talent, and the systemic issues within sports media and officiating. Their discussion not only critiques existing paradigms but also envisions potential pathways for the future of the NBA, making it a must-listen for basketball enthusiasts seeking deeper insights into the game.

Transcript

[A]

I'm not at all surprised that there's intelligent people who watch basketball and who are like really enjoying this. For instance, like the slot cut like I think we did a very good job of explaining why it's effective is because that X guy on the backside as the low man goes over, he repositions his body. And you're taught at an early age in basketball you got to see ball and man, he can know well, that's X guy. Now he's next layer what is the offense. We know the only way he's now say we have a non shoot and you're getting bored. I don't know what I'm talking about. No, no, it's fine.

[B]

No, I'm actually, you know what actually was happening between us right now midway through your speech, I was like, I can't believe he believes in me this much. You're actually, it's so, it's actually so deeply humming. So you're like as you know, on a slot cut, I'm like, I blow left handed. Layups at 24 hour fitness warning.

[A]

The following episode contains basketball commentary by a casual observer, Hasan Minhaj, which some viewers may find troubling. Compelling them to fill the comment section with vitriol about what a fucking moron he is. Viewer discretion is advised.

[B]

Hi there.

[A]

Welcome to Hasa.

[B]

Minhaj doesn't know I hate sports media. Oh, you think cable news sucks? Try watching espn. First take it feels like I'm living inside of Stephen A. Smith's demented fever dream.

[A]

The New York Knicks are trash.

[B]

Y'all look like trash. His very first move as the executive was to sign Lamar Odom, who was on crack. But then a new kind of sportscaster emerged. Dare I say a breath of fresh air. A 15 year NBA vet who also happened to be a brilliant NBA analyst, JJ Redick. For the past three years, JJ has been an antidote to the chaos.

[A]

I'm gonna educate you for a second cause I have a basic understanding of NBA rules. I'm not trying to scare you, I'm trying to debate you. I'm trying to point out how erroneous you are. Sometimes I don't know whether to believe that you believe what you're saying.

[B]

And he hasn't just been limited to espn. JJ has been dominating the sports podcast scene for years. First with Old man and the Three and then with Mind the Game, co hosted by arguably the greatest living basketball player, LeBron James. Yes, LeBron James is one of the fucking modern goats. He's been dominating basketball for the past 20 years and you still hate on him. He's been dominating since I had a fucking Nokia brick and I was playing Snake in high school, so shut the fuck up. In June of 2024, JJ reached the pinnacle of sports broadcasting when he called this year's NBA finals. But then, just a few days after the season ending, JJ Got the promotion of a lifetime. Welcome back. We had breaking news here on NBA today. The Los Angeles Lakers have agreed to a four year contract with JJ Redick to make him the franchise's next coach. Sources told espn. This is the most coveted interview of the NBA offseason. And I, Hasan Minhaj, a die hard Sacramento Kings, got it. Now, technically, this interview happened right before the Lakers announcement, but I knew he was gonna get the job. No, you didn't. Yes, I did, Hasan. We didn't know that. I fucking knew. Have you learned nothing? Shut up. I'm trying to build anticipation for the episode.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

Before we get to the episode, let's take care of some business. This episode is sponsored by ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com Hussin ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire. No. I believe life is about moments. When you have a friend that is having a moment, it is a beautiful thing to watch. This is the fucking. It is an inflection moment.

[A]

What a way to start.

[B]

And what's beautiful about it is life is oftentimes linear. So it's like this y equals 2x, y equals 1.5x. But there are moments where life becomes exponential and it becomes a Y equals X squared. Oh, shit, we're really moving here. Two years ago, you're doing the Old man and the Three with Tommy. You're doing an episode with Lil Yachty. And I'm watching this episode and I go, boy, oh boy, are the kids just playing with watercolors? I don't know the take, I don't know the tone, I don't know the direction of what the fuck you're doing.

[A]

We need this DNA, like this, you.

[B]

Know, evidence and shit.

[A]

And that shit was. And then they come back and he's dead.

[B]

That's pretty fucked up.

[A]

And a black dude is like old as fucking dirt.

[B]

But you're trying something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And to see where you guys have come to now with Old man and the Three and Mind the pod. This is a beautiful moment. As we walked in, I could tell your head was in nine different places. There are 50 tabs open in your browser.

[A]

What has happened, particularly in the Last three or four months has felt like this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it just all happened very fast.

[B]

I hate sports media. It's abject chaos. You, to me, in my opinion, came on this show and when I watched you, it felt like I was having a honey crisp apple after eating Doritos and Oreos all day.

[A]

It's so funny you say that, because I think there are times when I feel like this is not just indicative of sports media. I think this is indicative of politics. I think it's indicative of reality television. People like candy and that's okay. Sometimes, though, it's nice to have. You said a honey crisp apple. Sometimes I think it's like, it's nice to have a leafy green salad, you know what I mean?

[B]

Right.

[A]

With a bunch of just really highly dense, nutritious toppings. And that's okay, too. Again, I don't think it's either or. I think you can be entertained and you can like some of the debate shows and sports media. You can like the personalities. Like, I think Stephen A. Is one of the most talented people that I've ever been around, and he's super intelligent.

[B]

Megawatt talent.

[A]

There's a performance art to it, and it's beautiful at times, right? And this is not just. This is not a comment mentor to him at all. I think at times it becomes toxic, right? It's like, oh, hold on. There's too much sugar in the system. Right?

[B]

For those of you that haven't seen Mind the Game, essentially, it's no drama, no shiny floor, no debates about who the goat is. This is straight up basketball math proofs. It is C span basketball math proofs for the NBA.

[A]

Okay, JJ, you're gonna come to the ball. You're four for five, right? Yeah. Okay, so X5 or the five man's gonna screen you, bring you to the ball. Okay. At the same time, the three man's gonna set a cross screen for me. Go underneath.

[B]

When did you think that casuals like myself would have an appreciation for this level of sober NBA X's and O's.

[A]

I don't think the whole show is sober. I think there's some fun to it. There's. No, no, there's. You guys have seen my greatest moment ever on a podcast was when LeBron tried to cap and say that he didn't watch highlights on YouTube. Like, sometimes there's like, old clips of me that I watch or come across my timeline on social. Yeah, hold on, bro. It's okay. I see the clip sometimes. Oh, no, no. I don't just go online and look up LeBron James highlights. We all watch our own highlights on YouTube. LeBron.

[B]

Here's a compliment of the show. One guy wrote, this podcast is, quote, making me realize how little I actually know about basketball. Another person wrote, this is the only podcast I listen to at regular speed.

[A]

Oh, interesting, interesting.

[B]

Like, the level of detail and analysis is not for the faint of heart. When did you think that, hey, the everyday weekend warrior or fan of NBA basketball could really get into the X's and O's?

[A]

Let's look at it this way. There's sort of the big picture and that's like paying attention to what people say over and over and over again. And then there's these little moments where you're like, huh, that worked. So the big thing is you hear this all like, I'm so sick of just the constant discourse or arguing that happens over and over again. And so you're just, you're paying attention to it. And then there's these like, oh, so we did a Tyrese Haliburton the first time we ever had him in person, right? Like, we randomly thought of this one play that had come up that we both had seen in an Atlanta Hawks game. Yeah, Atlanta ran a crazy.

[B]

I don't know if they meant to, but I think they did because I think Quinn's a genius.

[A]

But, oh, I saw it. They cleared out the corner and we just like geeked out on it and like, we put the social clip up and people loved it. I was like, ah, interesting. This is what people want. This is what is happening on the court. Let's break it down for you so that the next time you watch a game, you say, oh, I understand why that player got a slot cut. I understand why when Luka came off the pick and roll and he snaked it back to his right hand, he had a wide open layup because Derek Lively set a gore tot screen. Right? That's all it is.

[B]

It's kind of mind blowing that you have the greatest living basketball player and 15 year NBA role player JJ Redick teaming up to make this amazing podcast. I'm not saying this is a sneak diss. I'm actually saying this is actually quite brilliant. I'm not. I'm not roasting.

[A]

I'm not roasting.

[B]

I wasn't breaking eye contact as I was saying that. But how has this idea been sitting there all along? We're 39 and 38 respectively. Like, we've watched basketball our entire lives. And the way it's been Covered how has this idea been sitting there all along and never been done? And is this an audition tape for.

[A]

A coaching job to suggest that I somehow have some grand plan and strategize and am moving chess pieces around in my own life? I don't operate that way. I can't operate that way. It's just not. You walked in my office today. Right. Do you know the 19 tasks that I have to do today?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The 17 things I have to prepare for in the next seven days, not just today. And I'm trying to manage all of that. Do you think I have time to think? Six months from now, a year from. No, dude. That's not how I live my life. Got it. I don't.

[B]

I have something to. I have a complaint. Mind the Game is one of the greatest basketball podcasts in history. You're doing the podcast. These are your words with LeBron James. When I look at the execution of the podcast. What the fuck is going on with the dry erase board? It is you. With lbj, you'll have a dry erase board and a Kleenex. It's like watching someone drive a Bugatti with state of the art gps. And then JJ Redick is passenger side giving directions with the printout from MapQuest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We want to gift you something that's going to be pretty groundbreaking for Mind the Game. Tyler, bring it in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This app called Playbook Create plays basketball. So jj, use the pen. This is an iPad.

[A]

And this is a ball.

[B]

That's a basketball.

[A]

This little thing that looks like a basketball is a ball.

[B]

Yeah. And this is an iPad.

[A]

Can I still draw my X's and O's?

[B]

Go for it.

[A]

So we're gonna say that's an offensive player being guarded by a defensive player.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's the screener. This guy's gonna come set this, right?

[B]

Yeah. What the fuck? Okay, then you can clear. Hit clear. Congratulations.

[A]

Now, is there a way your podcast. Is there a way to record as I draw?

[B]

Yes, you can screen record your podcast. Jj, do you know what just happened? The Indian guy had to come in and do it for you. Your podcast. I'm not kidding. You got 30% better.

[A]

I would say this. There's certainly some people and it's not me that their job security is threatened right now.

[B]

Jason Gallagher, I'm coming for you.

[A]

This is. This is an absolute game changer. I'm very excited about this. It just got 30% better. It just got 30% better.

[B]

You know what sucks? A few weeks after I gave him this amazing Gift.

[A]

This happened for the time being and hopefully it's a very, very long time. I am excommunicated from the content space, so there would be no podcast.

[B]

God damn it. You do something nice for someone and then they decide to change careers at the last minute. Okay, look, J.J. may not be able to use his iPad for podcasting, but he can use it for NBA coaching. And unlike many of you out there, I actually think JJ will be an amazing head coach. Because coaching at the professional level isn't about screaming about what should have happened, you Monday morning quarterbacking hack. It is about drawing up the right play at the right time. It's about high level discernment under pressure. And that is what the next part of this interview is all about. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology identifies top talent for your roles quickly and starts showing you qualified people as soon as you post your job. And with all that time I save on hiring, I can spend time on my true passion, looking up celebrities, ages and net worth online. Whoa. The guy from the bear's 47. I could have sworn he looks 46. Try it for free at this exclusive web address. Ziprecruiter.com Hassan ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire. I'm busy. For all of us sports fans at home, playoffs and the finals are really about key decisions, key moments, and making the right plays down the stretch. So we're going to play a game. It's called replay roulette. We're going to go back to some iconic playoff and finals performances. And I want you to draw up with this new piece of technology called the iPad and Apple pencil what should or shouldn't have happened.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So put the abacus away. We're gonna use this. LeBron game winner, Chicago 2015.

[A]

Yeah. This play drives me crazy.

[B]

Thank you. So bulls are up 2, 1. Keep in mind, they're about to go up 3, 1. Then LeBron does this. And why does this drive you so crazy?

[A]

All right, so here's the deal. You've got 1.5 seconds, okay? So you've got time for a catch and shoot. That's what you have time for, correct? You see this alignment, right? You got a clear side for LeBron. Very likely one of J.R. smith and Kyrie Irving are going to come off Tristan Thompson. Could be a stagger for Kyrie. Could be just a straight pin down for J.R. smith. You see the alignment with LeBron ISO versus Jimmy right. You see that? Tristan Thompson's a non shooter. Joe Kim Noah should be right underneath the basket. Or maybe the charge circle. Somewhere between the dots and the charge circle, Derrick Rose should be on the body. And whoever I think it's Tony Snell is guarding, J.R. smith should be on the high side, preventing him from coming off the script. It's called top block and we talked about it in one of the episodes. Jimmy's body position isn't great. This is what drives me crazy about the play, is just the initial body position you are taught. And even late game at times. You are taught what Todd Gibson is doing. You are taught you're guarding the inbounder. You're taught 1, 1000, 2 1000, protect the basket and then get out to whoever goes to the corner. It's an insane shot by LeBron. So if you're going to track LeBron, you need body position better from Tony Snell and Derrick Rose. And you need Joe Kim Noah to drop a little bit further to protect because Taj Gibson, if he's going to track LeBron, he's no longer the protector. On 1, 1000, 2, 1000. James for the win. It's good. LeBron James at the buzzer.

[B]

Let's go to the Kawhisha in Toronto. I'm sorry that you had to be a part of this.

[A]

Defended by Simmons. Is this the dagger? There's, you know, there's a lot of emotions that happens as the ball starts rolling around the rim. I think what's important to understand about great players is MJ, LeBron, Kawhi, you can scheme the fuck out of them. They're great players and they're going to make ridiculous shots. The one thing I noticed, I've always noticed on this play. Go rewind it to where Kyle Lowry, when he cuts off here, watch Joel. Watch Joel track it right there.

[B]

Boom.

[A]

All right, so now Joel is on the other side of Siakam. Watch the angle he takes trying to double team Kawhi. When he goes to double team Kawhi, that angle right there. Yeah, right. He opens up. So if he starts initially Siakam here, Joel was here. Kawhi is going this way. If he just starts like here, he's probably in a better position to cut Kawhi off. Ben is in pursuit and it's such a weird angle. And it's by the way, like, again, you're taught to track. If you're the big. That little split cut off the top, you're taught to track that. He tracks it, he gets A little bit out of position because he went to track it. So it's just a weird angle that he takes. The other. The other thing that kind of happens is he almost. He almost like cuts off Ben. So Ben's pursuit gets blocked a little bit by Joel and then Ben sort of stops. Like, this is an insane shot. He's shooting on the move, kind of behind the backboard, right over a seven foot guy. And it goes in.

[B]

It clanks and.

[A]

Right. My question to you, who's the ball handler here? He played college ball, basketball. How'd that make you feel?

[B]

Incredible. Now, in my Instagram comments, Michael B. Jordan wrote, I should have kicked it to Ray Allen for the four point play. I decided to take bird in hand. Why don't you play that so you can just see me hit that 3 inch vertical. Left handed layup? Yes. My knees are knocking like I'm a baby bird. Let's not talk about that. Let's talk about the focus it takes to make that layup. And then me slapping the floor. Is that appropriate or inappropriate?

[A]

People get so obsessed with the floor slapping just because a few Duke players did it at some point.

[B]

It was also a high school basketball thing.

[A]

Did you do it in high school?

[B]

Of course. Blue Devil basketball.

[A]

Davis High School.

[B]

Davis High.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Up to 10th grade. I didn't play.

[A]

Up to 10th grade. Up to 10th grade.

[B]

Why is that funny?

[A]

It's just hilarious.

[B]

It's not that I didn't try.

[A]

I believe you.

[B]

We don't even need the last play. Fine, let's do the. Actually, let's do the last play. It's going to give him a. Chuck.

[A]

Retired, but it was time to go.

[B]

He's a competitive spirit. Hasan Minhaj.

[A]

Inside. David Wilson.

[B]

This. This is etched in amber in the blockchain on Getty Images forever. Two questions. Number one, Is this a foul?

[A]

No.

[B]

You kidding me?

[A]

This is not a foul.

[B]

Do you know how hard you have to hit me for that much hair gel to move?

[A]

Do you have no right hand?

[B]

I do have a right hand.

[A]

Like a right hand floater.

[B]

I have a right hand layup.

[A]

Like you should have gone to the right hand floater on that one. Just be honest. That's where you messed up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's not a foul.

[A]

That's not a foul.

[B]

Dude, look at her hip. Look at. She's all up in my body. Are you kidding me? The game has changed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Five out is now the new normal.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Five out for the viewers at home is five players on offense playing beyond the three point line. This is 24 hour fitness weekend Warrior basketball. This is what I do with my homies. It's me, a bunch of friends from middle school, a random dude in khakis and dress pants and fucking dress shoes letting it fly at the LA Fitness over the weekend. This is now the game. What do you think of this as a style of basketball theory?

[A]

Yeah, I think it's a little more, it's a little more nuanced than just saying it's, you know, fight out. Right. And every team is different. Again, you in the NBA, you want to maximize spacing. That's what it comes down to. So for the Denver Nuggets, they want to score in the paint. So when they go five out, it's to get to the paint. And what they rely on is let's say the ball goes here, now Jokic has it here, right? We're just going to cut. This could be a pin down, this could be a rip screen. That's Aaron Gordon going to the basket. I think when people say, oh, we just spaced five out and people think it's like this guy going to his bag every single time and jacking a three, that's not what it is. Five out is just a way to maximize spacing so that whatever your particular team likes to do and wants to do and can do well. Got it. You can run different actions out of five out.

[B]

So you're actually saying five out opens up multiple different offensive schemes. It's not just get the ball and go bing, bing, bing and score.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In between the legs. Copy. Let's go through the evolution of the NBA. I have a theory. Clearly spreading the floor this way and launching from deep. It's been working. And the warriors were a huge example of that. You talked about this on the pod with LeBron. You guys gave flowers to my kings. Even in the early 2000s, you're like they actually were some of the first teams that did that. But I have this theory. 50s to the late 70s, you have the big man dominated league. You got Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbard. 80s to early 2000s, that's the evolution of the mid range game. Plus back to the basket centers. So you got your bird, Jordan, Kobe's, Shaq, Hakeem Ewings, that's how you won championships. You then get drafted into the NBA and you played through, I call it the early aughts Wardell era, which was you got a chance to play with the last pure point guard, in my opinion, Chris Paul. And then you got to see teams really win, running and gunning and shooting from 40ft and beyond. The NBA is a copycat league. Is that safe to say, yeah, we all steal.

[A]

We all steal.

[B]

Could one argue that the Wemby, Giannis and Joker era could lead to a reversion to big man basketball? Meaning the moment Joker and the Nuggets rally off maybe another championship or two, all of a sudden there may be a move where, hey, let's start drafting for bigs and building around that. Or it becomes a new style of game akin to what we saw in the mid 20th century.

[A]

I don't think we're ever necessarily going back there, but there is a little bit of a chicken and egg thing. So like in the 90s, let's say when you would have basically three out, two in, you'd throw the ball down here, this guy would have it and everybody just kind of stood around and you'd wait for the double team and then you'd play out of rotation. Like that's essentially what it was. There wasn't analytics back then and we don't have the data. You know, we don't have, we have some play by play tracking going back to 96, 97, but we don't have like the tracking era which started in 2013, 2014. And so what we've confined is that the volume of post ups across the board has decreased and there are very few teams because it's literally a few players whose efficiency has sort of gone up. Right? It's Jokic, it's Embiid ad, it's guys like that, right?

[B]

But could you imagine a Shaq playing in this era? You have a five hour an Orlando Magic, 1992 Shaq.

[A]

Yeah, but every great player would be great in any era. Like I really believe that, particularly like in the modern NBA. That is Magic, Larry and on like those guys, they changed the game.

[B]

But specifically with a big like that, with that type of stuff.

[A]

Well, here's the thing, like Jokic, let's say it's a different scenario. Let's say Aaron Gordon doesn't exist, right? And it's just four shooters around him. Like then you're just kind of playing out a rotation. What makes Jokic really dangerous in this area is that Aaron Gordon is down here and can catch vertical threats. So like you still need synergy between your players. We brought this up this week. It's like the 4, 5 thing. In an era of everybody shoots threes, most teams play essentially two wings at the three and the four spot, right? And they Switch everything one through four, and then you have your five. Right. This little four, five, like, synergy between Gordon and Jokic is beautiful. Think about Giannis. You brought up Giannis name. Well, part of the reason that the Bucks have been good for so long is because they got Brook Lopez. And Brook Lopez has evolved his game to have a skill set that complements Giannis. Giannis wants to get here. Brook Lopez is perfectly comfortable spacing to 27ft. So, yeah, I think. And you're seeing with Minnesota. You're seeing with Minnesota, like, the reason.

[B]

That works is Rudy, and you have.

[A]

Kat who can space. Right. So it's. You still need skill sets that complement each other. Yes.

[B]

Let's pivot to 20, 24 Olympics, because I want to talk about international game. So, clearly, globalization over the past three decades has been great for the NBA. Some of the best players are immigrants. Has America's downfall domestically in the rise of green card assassins globally been a benefit to the NBA as a whole?

[A]

It's been a benefit to the game, for sure.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

It's been a benefit to the game. There's no question on that.

[B]

It's a weird theory because I'm basically saying bringing basketball to the world made America relatively worse at it. It's kind of like how. Yeah, some of the best movies are coming out of South Korea now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're doing culture and movies better than us.

[A]

Well, I think in general, global is like, oh, there's something beyond just us. Right. There's something beyond us. I think the game is better because it's better globally, if that makes sense in terms of the NBA, as we sort of get to the end point of this LeBron, Steph, Kevin Durant, Kawhi era. These guys are all older, and they're still playing at elite level. But as we get to the end of that, there needs to. For the league, There needs to probably be an American player who takes the throne. I think Jokic doesn't want it. Right. He doesn't want to be the face. I don't know if Luka does or not, you know, because of how Giannis plays, maybe. And just, like, bullying people, it's like, I don't like how he plays. You know, it's like, people. There's got to be something about the player that captures people.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, Wemby could be that guy.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Ant could be that guy.

[A]

Ant could be that guy. There's. There's got. And people always talk about Ant being the next Face, and it's like, yeah, he's got a personality. He's funny as fuck. He's competitive. Like, he's got, he's got everything. He's awesome.

[B]

Right? I could have went to the mlb. I love your confidence. What positions did you play?

[A]

I played pitcher, shortstop, third base, and center field.

[B]

Those are the prime positions that what.

[A]

I'm trying to tell you. Yeah, you were the best player on your team. Now we talking. But like Magic, Larry, Kobe, A.I. jordan, LeBron, Steph, they all had different personalities. You don't have to have one personality to be the face of the NBA.

[B]

Correct. One of the things that I find interesting though is the sheer volume of international players that become top tier, tier one NBA players in a criticism. Obviously you have your two sons that play basketball, Kai and Knox. We talk about AAU and the complaints people have around aau. Aw, man. These kids are playing on travel teams. That's why they suck. They're getting hurt. As LeBron said, they're obsessed with having a bag, not learning skill sets. But then you have international players like Luca who started playing when he was 16 years old, Ricky Rubio who started playing when he was 14 years old. So they play pro earlier, which means the financial incentives are the same too. They're getting a bag of cash, just like the American players that are exploring nil or going to the draft early. And yet the outcome is different. Why?

[A]

Well, some of them, some of them weren't getting paid. Some of them were, you know, were playing for a professional club or practicing for a professional club or playing junior, but then ended up going to college. Like Franz Wagner is a great example. Right, right. So they were professional, but they weren't getting paid. Right. This is not like an answer where it's like one thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think it's a very complicated thing. And look, I think let's start with the culture around AAU in America. I think it's important to note that one of the problems that arises from it is a lack of continuity. So you have kids who play. I mean, dude, we had this. It's insane to say this. We had this at 9 and 10 years old this year where there were multiple kids we played against that played for multiple travel teams, and so there's no continuity. Part of basketball is learning how to play with others. The guys coming to the league now are more skilled than ever. Right. They, they, they can desel into a Euro offhand finish. They can shoot a step back three. Step back threes were not a thing. They were not a thing when I got in the NBA. Now Every guard needs to have a step back. Three, they can shoot from longer distances. Right. The bag is deeper than ever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Are they better basketball players is the question? Because there's more to basketball than just having a bag. The point about player development within the US player development to me now has become and the NBA teams that do it right, do it. The best player development is about putting people in game like environments and then drilling that versus drilling how to get to your bag.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

I had a coach tell me this year, I was asking, I was like, this player, he's gotten better in pick and roll. He's like, yeah, we have pick and roll study hall. We'll sit there and we'll watch one specific player that does one specific thing really well in pick and roll and then we'll go out on the court and recreate that environment so that he works on those reads.

[B]

So it sounds like in addition to gelling as a team though, one of the things that takes someone like a Ricky Rubio and the reason why this blows me away is he was 14 years old, I was an eighth grader. So I'm chugging Mountain Dew playing Golden Guy. Ricky Rubio's in Spain, traveling across Europe, just smoking unfiltereds and visiting brothels and just hooping with grizzled, hairy chested Eastern European men. Just playing the game in game situations. And so do you feel like because there's so much team hopping, you'll never get into a groove the way a Luca did or a Ricky Rubio did because they had to squat up with the team for a year at a time, but they're also practicing with the team.

[A]

Correct. And that's the problem with jumping from team to team is you're not having the practice time, you're not knowing your teammates tendencies and like you're not going to play with the same group your whole life. But once you sort of get the database in your brain of, okay, like when this guy drives to his right hand and gets stuck on the baseline, which happens three times a game, I know to relocate behind him, right. Once that becomes ingrained in your brain, then it becomes a habit, then you start doing it, right? But if I don't ever play with that kid, if I play with that kid on the weekend on Saturday and then the next weekend I go to somebody else. And now my point guard's a lefty, right? Now he's a lefty and he's shifting, he can get to the middle. I may never see that again, right? You got kids now that are playing for three different AAU teams, two different high school teams, then transferring a new high school the next year. Like, and everybody says, oh, it's the parents, it's the kid, it's the, it's like, no, it's, it's, it's the whole system. It's the whole system. And everybody now is incentivized to take advantage of these kids. It's not the player's fault. You think I was making good decisions at 16 years old, 17 years old, I'm not making good decisions. I got lucky.

[B]

In case you know even less about basketball than me, I want to set up the next question about the NBA's last two minute report, aka the L2M. The day after a close game, the NBA releases its official L2M report, which summarizes every correct and incorrect call the refs made in the final two minutes of the game. But, and this is a big but, they don't go back and correct the mistakes. They just admit the mistake and then nothing happens. Which is fucking insane. It's like if you doordash chick fil a they mess up your order and then instead of fixing it, they bring you the correct order, hold it up to your face and only let you smell it. Who benefits from this? Refs hate it, coaches hate it and players fucking hate it.

[A]

It's bull. They should get rid of it. Our refs don't deserve that. They get discredits what the referees are doing for 48 minutes. If that's the case, you might as well give a 48 minute report. It helps no one. Maybe make the referee's day, but worse don't help us.

[B]

I also feel like L2M and replay these things are destroying trust in the institutions. Clearly this playoffs there have been some replays. Just with the Knicks Sixers series alone. Take that maxi travel where they see replay. The dudes straight up in like their gray ref Nike dry fits are walking over, looking at the monitor and still calling it long. I feel like replay in L2M is what social media did to democracy. We thought citizen journalism would fix the problem. It has only made it worse. What's going on? Why is this happening? Do you agree?

[A]

That's a great point. It's a good comparison because people are.

[B]

Getting more disenfranchised and actually angrier.

[A]

There's always been a human element to the sport. Referees are a big part of our sport and they're graded just like all of us. Like they're, they're scrutinized internally I'm saying, like, if I have a good game or a bad game, I've got to then go watch the film the next day with the team and we've got to talk about it and we've got to fix the problems. Like, they're getting that within the referees association.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So there's always been that human element. Technology has made it where the eyeballs and the magnifying glass on them has, I think, made it harder. As far as the last two minute report, I hate it. I don't think we should do it. I don't need. And there's sometimes where, like, the league will come out and they'll be like, that was the correct call. And we're like, no, we all watched the replay 17 times. It was not the correct call.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, what does the last two minute report do? I just. We can all see what happened. Like, you know, the maxi. You brought up the travel. But like, hey, what about game two, when his jersey gets held on the inbound play, Right. That should be foul.

[B]

There's multiple of.

[A]

And then they come out of the last two. Like, Josh Hart fouled Maxey. Well, no shit. I didn't need you to do that. Like, the intent there is for transparency. I think the intent is correct. But, like, does it solve any problem? No. Does it make anybody feel any better? I think 76ers fans woke up the next day and were like, lee got.

[B]

It right this time.

[A]

They got it right this time.

[B]

Justice is served. Like, there's no actually going back and fixing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's. It's. I don't know. I thought.

[A]

I like. I know it slows the game down at times. I like replays within the game. I think. I think it's fair to have replays. I think there's some stuff. And I'm. Again, I have nothing to do with the rules committee, but, like, there's some stuff where we see it. We see something happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a replay and they're reviewing the replay for something else. And it's blatantly obvious that this one thing happened. But that thing is not reviewable. Like, can we tweak some of that stuff? I don't know, dude.

[B]

They keep getting it wrong like this, it's gonna end up like American democracy. Someone's gonna storm the Capitol. Buddy, I just wanna say, I don't know what the future holds for you, but I just wanna say I'm so proud of you. Thank you. It's an honor to know you. I'm so glad I had the opportunity to emotionally guilt you into having dinner at my house with my wife. This is it is beautiful to see your ascent and no matter what the future holds, on behalf of NBA fans and basketball fans around the world, thank you for giving us this gift of your expertise, your knowledge in deep, ethical, caring work. I appreciate you so much.

[A]

Appreciate you man.

[B]

Like seriously, thank you. I'm truly happy for JJ and I wish him all the best in this brand new role. Except of course when he plays the Sacramento Kings, in which case I will curse him and his entire family for generations to come. Until next time, I'm Hasa Minhaj and I doesn't know Are you hiring? What type of position do you need to fill? Well, whether you need to hire a civil engineer in New York, a nurse in Nebraska, an attorney in Colorado, or even a mascot in Michigan, you need ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter finds qualified candidates fast for all kinds of roles and right now you can try it for [e-mail] Huston ZipRecruiter lets you connect with top candidates quickly and you can even use their pre written Invite to Apply message to personally reach out to your favorite candidates and encourage them to apply sooner. Now personally, I also like to reach out to my least favorite candidate and invite them to go to hell. Hey Scott, Go to hell. Love Hassan from accounting to zoologists, ZipRecruiter makes hiring faster and easier. 4 to 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at this exclusive web address. Ziprecruiter.com Husson Again, that's ziprecruiter.com Ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire I'm busy Scott and I told you to go to hell.