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- [00:00]
A
Can you do an American accent?
- [00:01]
B
No, not at all. Not at all.
- [00:03]
A
When I imitate Brits, it's this very. Hello from the uk. It's like that. Hello, guv'nor. Is that Hungarian or it's very like Jason Statham like. Alright, here's a thing.
- [00:17]
B
Oh, those are the sorts of films you watch, is it?
- [00:18]
A
Yeah.
- [00:19]
B
Okay.
- [00:19]
A
Have you seen the accent challenge on TikTok? An American person will say a word or phrase and then their British friend will say the same word or phrase.
- [00:25]
B
Yogurt. Yogurts. Great.
- [00:28]
A
Okay. Banana.
- [00:31]
B
It's a banana. Okay.
- [00:33]
A
Zebra.
- [00:34]
B
It's a zebra.
- [00:35]
A
Vitamin water.
- [00:37]
B
Vitamin water.
- [00:38]
A
No taxation without representation.
- [00:40]
B
No taxation without representation.
- [00:42]
A
My man. Down with the monarchy.
- [00:47]
B
No, man.
- [00:48]
A
I gotta go back to Hebrew airport. I just wanna hear what it sounds like. I'm not gonna take you out of context.
- [00:54]
B
God save the king.
- [00:56]
A
God save the King. Insane. What an insane thing to say. The British are known for a lot of things. Paparazzi, royals, and of course, bloodthirsty empires. But did you know there are also British people who aren't terrible? Some of them are pretty cool people, like London Mayor Sadiq Khan. Sadiq Khan is the first Muslim to ever be elected mayor of a major Western capital, taking over for adult sized little rascal Boris Johnson in 2016. And even though Mayor Khan has gotten a lot of hate, like an entire Reddit.com's worth of it, Londoners actually seem to kind of like him. He was recently elected to a historic third term and remains a popular Muslim mayor in a country where being Muslim is maybe the least popular thing other than smiling. Or maybe flavor. So I sat down with Mayor Khan to talk about why you should visit London, why you shouldn't visit Southport, especially if you're Muslim, and to tackle perhaps the most important question in the world today. What exactly is a Piers Morgan?
- [01:58]
B
Hurry, right away.
- [01:59]
A
No delay.
- [02:00]
B
Stop there.
- [02:02]
A
Make your daddy. This episode is brought to you by Kolkata chai. Want a healthier morning habit? Put down the coffee and drink chai. I only drink the best Kolkata chai. You can get it right now at Kolkatachai co. Oh, and you should probably exercise. I heard that works too. This feels pretty London y, doesn't it?
- [02:21]
B
This is. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.
- [02:23]
A
Do you feel at home?
- [02:24]
B
Well, except your accents are a bit. You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [02:27]
A
Mayor Khan, great.
- [02:29]
B
Thanks for having me, man.
- [02:30]
A
Pleasure.
- [02:30]
B
Good to be here. Good to be here.
- [02:31]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [02:31]
B
Great to be in the second greatest city in the world.
- [02:34]
A
Okay, okay, okay. He's coming in With a jab, folks.
- [02:37]
B
Big fan. Good to meet you.
- [02:37]
A
Oh, thank you. So I'll be honest. The title Mayor Khan does not feel very British. It feels actually a little casual. Feels very American. I want to run what? I think a few appropriate titles for you could be.
- [02:51]
B
Bit nervous now.
- [02:53]
A
Archbishop of Sewage and Harry Potter tours.
- [02:57]
B
Okay, okay, I'm warming. I'm warming up. I'm warming up.
- [03:00]
A
Okay. Lord Protector of our Lady, Dua Lipa.
- [03:05]
B
Oh, I like that. I like that. She's great. Londoner, by the way. Londoner, by the way.
- [03:10]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [03:10]
B
Child of immigrants. Great story.
- [03:12]
A
Yeah, amazing story. Chief conversation changer when Prince Andrew comes up.
- [03:18]
B
Ouch. I think we better move on because I may not be allowed back in the country.
- [03:23]
A
Okay, so two of these are working for you.
- [03:24]
B
Great. Yeah, great. Two of them are great.
- [03:27]
A
How would you describe on LinkedIn what your day to day job is? Because I've tried to discern it through your Instagram, but just looking at your IG reels, everything that you're doing in grid. Respectfully, Mayor, you, your full time job, it looks like you have to be Muslim, Mr. Rogers. One day you're at the pride parade, the other day you're at a gurdwara, then you're at a synagogue and you're just like, hey, yeah, I'm here. I just want to let you know I'm cool with all of you guys. We love being a multiracial city.
- [03:55]
B
Spot on, spot on. And it's important to bust those myths about our religion because, you know, people have got prejudices and stereotypes and we gotta bust those. And if I can do that doing a job I love, that's fine.
- [04:05]
A
The level of pressure you have to.
- [04:06]
B
Carry is then the next time I could be, you know, meeting the fire service about what they need in relation to investment in firefighters, fire appliances, fire stations and so forth. We've got to make sure the tubes are on time. The buses that. We've got a new, great new line in London called the Elizabeth Line. I think the finest railway line in the world. So make sure that's running on time. Working well.
- [04:25]
A
I just came back from London.
- [04:26]
B
Oh, great.
- [04:26]
A
And I love it as a city.
- [04:27]
B
Great.
- [04:27]
A
I actually think it's an amazing city.
- [04:29]
B
Bless you. Thank you. Family or just you who went?
- [04:32]
A
Family. Me and my wife went.
- [04:33]
B
She had a great time.
- [04:34]
A
We had an amazing time.
- [04:34]
B
Did you spend lots of money?
- [04:35]
A
Did I spend money?
- [04:36]
B
Lots of money.
- [04:37]
A
Oh, Marikon, we're gonna get into it.
- [04:39]
B
Good man.
- [04:41]
A
No, no, I have a lot of things I Loved. I have a lot of critiques, and I have some pitches. We're gonna get to that later. But first, something that I'm trying to.
- [04:48]
B
Encourage tourists to learn. So please be positive.
- [04:50]
A
No, I was just. I was just there. It was in grid. It was in grid. I was. I was plugging the city. London Fashion Week. I was there. I was adding to the gdp. Okay. I believe going back to the UK is really important for Americans, because I feel like Britain, London and the politics of that city and of that country oftentimes can be indicative of what is to come or what could happen in the United States. One of the biggest stories of this past summer in England were the race riots. For more than a week, riots breaking out in city after city. Cars torched in northeast England. This hotel used to house asylum seekers, set ablaze. The immediate trigger, the murder last week of three young girls in a horrific stabbing spree. The scale of the riots was unlike anything I had seen before. Over a thousand people were arrested. Mosques were attacked and vandalized. That story this past summer was this very chilling reminder of maybe the progress we thought is being made is not being made.
- [05:49]
B
Well, thank you for raising a really important issue. So let's distinguish London from the rest of the country, because where the awful, tragic murders happened was in Southport in the northwest of England. And it's a tragic story, but it shows. There are a number of lessons from this story that if we get time, I'd like to discuss. Sure.
- [06:05]
A
Yes, Right now.
- [06:06]
B
So one is three children. Six were both parents. Six, eight and nine were killed. Eight other children were seriously injured. Two adults were seriously injured. Now, a lie was spread very quickly on social media that the person responsible was a Muslim. The person responsible was an asylum seeker, actually, by the way, somebody born in Cardiff in Wales, not a Muslim. But that's almost irrelevant. So this lie is put out on social media and it spread like wildfire, including by the owner of one of the social media companies. What happens then is there's inverted commons. They protest takes place in Southport, in that area, and that turns into a riot where literally places of worship where Muslims worship, mosques are targeted. Hostels housed in asylum seekers are set on fire. Police are attacked, cars are stopped. To look inside. Is a person inside a white family or an Asian mushroom family? So it's very serious what happened in parts of England. You're spotted More than 1,000 arrests are made, 800 people charged. It took place over a number of days.
- [07:19]
A
A thousand people. This is in London?
- [07:21]
B
No, no, across the country. Not in London, across the country.
- [07:24]
A
But protests were happening in London.
- [07:26]
B
So in London you had thousands of people turning up to show solidarity to Muslims and to minority communities. So in fact, Londoners weren't involved in the riots. And the. I don't like calling them protests because they were riots. Londoners weren't involved in the disturbances around the country. They were in London. You saw the antidote to the hatred. Thousands coming out in diverse communities showing solidarity with Muslims and with asylum seekers and with refugees. Now, there are a number of lessons from this horrible story this summer. One is how social media is used to spread lies, misinformation, disinformation. Two, how the far right will hijack a tragedy for their own cause. Three, how you blame the other for any ills in society, the murder by Welshmen of these three girls and others. But fourth, though, actually that diversity is a strength, not a weakness, because the riots took place across the country, ironically, in those parts of the country where there's the least diversity, in those parts of the country, like London, where there's the most diversity, no rights, because people know that the Asian guy's not the boogeyman, the Muslims are not the bogeyman, the asylum seeker, the refugee is not the boogeyman because they're your neighbor, they're your friend, they're your colleague. But in those parts of the country, people are prejudging and leads to violence.
- [08:49]
A
Do you think it's because it's more rural in those parts of the country?
- [08:52]
B
Yeah. Listen, I think one of the things we've got to do is understand that whether it's America or the UK and other parts of the globe, there are people, decent people, with genuine concerns, genuine fears. They can't get decent healthcare, they can't get the kid into a good school, they can't buy affordable housing. My profession of politicians should be addressing those concerns, responding to the concerns. What some people do in my profession is play on those concerns, play on your fears. And it's the oldest trick in the book, right to blame the other. And I see it when I speak to friends here in America as well, that progressives should be addressing people's concerns, responding to them, rather than allowing right wing politicians and others to play on people's fears. And that's what leads to rights. It's really important.
- [09:43]
A
One of the things that I struggle with being an American and being Muslim American is you see so much progress that is possible. Obviously you see the success of many Muslim Americans and I see the success of your rise in the UK and in London, when you see riots like that, is it deeply disconcerting? Do you say, oh, wow, we've made so much progress in certain ways and then in many ways, fundamentally this country will not change?
- [10:07]
B
I think this is a conundrum, right? Because on the one hand, we want to celebrate the progress we've made. When my parents first arrived in the uk, they were confronted with signs saying no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. And by blacks, they meant people like us, right? People of color. Within one generation, a son of a migrant, son of an immigrant is voted by London to be the mayor of the greatest city. Not just any minority, but a Muslim in the current climate shows the progress we made. But on the other hand, what breaks my heart is my daughters who didn't experience some of the racism that I experienced. My parents were scared because of images on tv, because of riots taking place, cars being stopped to check whether somebody's Asian or white. Right. That is heartbreaking for me as a dad, sure. But it shows actually. We must never be complacent and it's complacency that's the issue. So if you and I were talking 10 years ago, and you know, 20, 30, 20, 30 years ago, when I was, you know, young, much younger, I'd be talking to you about my frustration about the lack of progress, the speed. Now I'm worried about regression, things going backwards. And I see it, you know, in America with, you know, 2008, with the election, President Obama, we thought the world's problems were solved. Right. It's going to be a post racial era.
- [11:22]
A
Sure.
- [11:23]
B
And look where that got us.
- [11:24]
A
This episode is brought to you by. Kolkata chai. Gentler caffeine, low sugar and bold flavor. That's the promise of chai. I'm talking about the rich, authentic flavors of masala chai made with organically sourced tea and hand milled spices. Started by 2Real Brothers in 2019. This chai is the real deal. If you don't believe me, this is the only chai we serve in my house. Grab the best chai in the game at Colecottachai Co. One of the things that I'm seeing specifically with progressive politics is I do think there was a regression back to the middle or the old guard. There were a few moments, I don't know if you saw this, where Vice President Harris had to take a little swig of the Republican Red Bull. You gotta take a little slice of the conservative cake to make yourself palatable to the other side. We have the most lethal army in the world. Right. I Think what it's signaling is, hey, for us to resonate with the country at large, we actually have to regress to some more conservative positions and values. Do you agree with that?
- [12:25]
B
No. Yes and no. No, I don't. But I understand the method what you're alluding to, but let me explain why. I'm not necessarily sure that's fair. Sure. If you did a event, you did a rectangle, right? Yeah. You got Democrats here who will vote Democrats no matter what.
- [12:41]
A
Yeah.
- [12:41]
B
Right. You've got Republicans here who will vote Republicans no matter what. Right. Then you've got people in the middle who we call them floating voters, but then they can switch. Right. One of your jobs as a politician is to reassure them they can vote for you, reassure them that any prejudices they've got are ill founded and at the same time try and persuade some Republicans to try and come over to you as well. And you work on the basis that your core vote will stay with you. And so to win an election, particularly with the electoral college and the swing states and so forth, I can understand why Vice President Harris is seeking to reassure them that she's not stereotypical Democratic, inverted commons, legally livered liberal, all the rest of it. Sure. Right.
- [13:24]
A
When you look at that middle post Brexit, what do you think those middle policy positions are specifically for you and the uk?
- [13:30]
B
And this is a fascinating conversation because I think what happens is you see the middle, if you're not careful, can move. So this is why it's so profound. That conversation is the middle. What do I mean by that? So I think what's happened across the globe in the last 10 years, and Brexit is a really good example, is you've seen a rise of nativist populist movements across the globe. France, Germany, Netherlands, usa, uk. Nigel Farage, Brazil, Argentina. And what's happened is progressives have failed to make the argument, have failed to be good teachers to explain the consequences of various things.
- [14:07]
A
Yes.
- [14:07]
B
And as a consequence that center middle has moved to the right in some countries, not in all countries and stuff. And that middle is needed to win an election. And then when you win an election a good leader will bring that centre to where you want it to do. So I would hope the Londoners centre, because I've been the mayor for the last eight years, is different from where it was when the previous guy was. Does that make sense? Was the mayor?
- [14:34]
A
Yeah, the Overton window. You're shifting the political Overton window spot on spot.
- [14:38]
B
And that's what I think good leaders do. Right. Because you win the election and then you try and as a teacher, as a governor, as a legislator, try and move people with you. And that's what I hope I've done over the last eight and a half years. But you're right, Brexit was a challenge for us because what Brexit did was, I think it was one on the back of lies, it was one on the back of misinformation, it was one on the back of blaming the other. There was a poster they used during the campaign, which is remarkable. They use the phrase breaking point and it was a photograph of brown skinned people. Okay. Because what they were saying was, if we stay in the eu, Turkey's coming.
- [15:20]
A
Turkey.
- [15:20]
B
Turkey will join the eu.
- [15:21]
A
Got it.
- [15:22]
B
All these brown people will come into the uk. And so it was a lie. Turkey's not going to join the European Union and all the rest of it stuff.
- [15:30]
A
But just so I understand, why would it be bad if Turkey joined the eu?
- [15:33]
B
Exactly. Well, that's my point. It played on people's fears about breaking. We're at breaking point, right? We can't take any more migrants. And if we do, it's okay for the French and Germans to come, but not Turkey, because Muslims, brown skin, so forth, so forth. Istanbul, core city, Cappadocia, great city, great.
- [15:48]
A
City, Blue Mosque, Very Instagram friend.
- [15:50]
B
One half in Asia, one half in Europe. How great is that? Right?
- [15:53]
A
Yeah.
- [15:53]
B
How great is that? Yeah, but it played on people's fears. And that's my point about. You gotta try and say, listen, this is a lie.
- [16:00]
A
That's what. Well, I mean, this is. You're kind of buttoning what I was not articulating well two or three questions ago, which is I felt progress per what we're talking about. Your parents, my parents, moves one way and there's these reminders that the car actually is in neutral and might be in reverse. And those are painful moments.
- [16:16]
B
Yes.
- [16:17]
A
And for me, I have to go, oh, wait, maybe that Overton window isn't shifting over here. Maybe I have to. Or if you're in politics, you have to convey certain positions that I thought we were behind.
- [16:30]
B
No, I think your concerns are legitimate. I think your criticism is fair. We must always be vigilant. You must not assume it's mission accomplished. When you assume it's mission accomplished, that's when the bad guys.
- [16:45]
A
Oh, brother.
- [16:46]
B
You see what I mean? We've got to be vigilant. We've got to carry on being teachers.
- [16:49]
A
Hey, brother, I know when to not celebrate early. Listen, you're on the top of your game right now. I'm throwing you some tough questions, and I don't envy the position you're in. The subtext of being in your chair oftentimes, in my chair is that we get asked tough questions all the time. We have to get it right. We're gonna play a game on Hasan. Minhaj doesn't know. This is a game that I love.
- [17:11]
B
Yeah, I got it.
- [17:12]
A
It's called let's keep our job. I'm gonna ask you a series of questions, and I want you to answer it in such a way that you keep your job.
- [17:20]
B
Got it?
- [17:20]
A
Got it, Got it. This is a fastball, multiple choice. Do you condemn Islamic extremism? A, somewhat. B, very much indeed. C, unequivocally.
- [17:31]
B
Extremism is extremism, and it's not Islamic. You can be motivated by Islamist ideology, by extremism. Extremism.
- [17:40]
A
You're supposed to say, see? Unequivocally. Number two, how do we transform Islam into a culture of peace? Ronny Chang gave me this question.
- [17:49]
B
Is that the question?
- [17:50]
A
That was the question.
- [17:51]
B
Islam is a religion of peace.
- [17:54]
A
Lost your job. Is the Bear a comedy?
- [17:57]
B
I love the Bear. No. What's that all about? Best comedy at the Emmys. What's that all about?
- [18:02]
A
So it's not a comedy. You just said it's great. What's that all about? This was the most. That was the most politician.
- [18:08]
B
I don't even know.
- [18:12]
A
The reason why I'm asking you this is because I found that the English press can be pretty nasty.
- [18:18]
B
No. Yeah, Newsflash. Hassan Minhaj has on his podcast told us the British press can be nasty.
- [18:25]
A
What is your relationship with the press? With the British press?
- [18:28]
B
It depends who you mean. Do you mean editors, journalists? They're readers I'm talking about.
- [18:31]
A
Okay. For you specifically, you've had multiple interviews with Piers Morgan. In the middle of one of these interviews, he asked you, what is a woman?
- [18:38]
B
What is a woman? Mr. Mayor?
- [18:40]
A
Now, that's incredibly bizarre and strange, but here's where it gets crazier. Mayor Khan, he's asked many different people this question randomly in the middle of the interview.
- [18:53]
B
What is a woman? What's a woman? What is a woman? What is a woman? Out of interest, what is a woman? What is a woman? What is a woman? If I asked you what a woman is, what would you say?
- [19:01]
A
So, Mr. Mayor, my question is, what is a Piers Morgan? What's going on there?
- [19:07]
B
So the American audience don't know what you're talking about, do they? No. Yeah, yeah.
- [19:13]
A
I'm just watching on YouTube and I'm like, what? What is going on here? He's carved out this weird subgroup of being anti trans, but also pro Palestine. So my question is, is he an asshole or is he the greatest journalist of our generation?
- [19:32]
B
What was that thing about keeping your job? But here's a serious point.
- [19:37]
A
Yeah, what is it? I genuinely, when I watch the show, I'm like, is this what the news is in the uk? Is this what the press is?
- [19:44]
B
I've seen some American press, by the way, and some of your personalities. So we have a competition about.
- [19:48]
A
Sure, sure.
- [19:49]
B
But here's a serious point, which is one of my jobs is to use mediums that people watch and view. And, you know, whether people like it or not, you know, Piers Morgan is watched by a lot of people in London, across the UK and across the globe. And if I get a chance to explain my point of view, it's really important to use that media because I've got to accept that medium. I've got to accept that there are some people I want to reach who are watching a Piers Morgan YouTube video or watching some of the programs others present. I don't want to reach those people. I don't want to speak to an echo chamber. I don't want to speak to people who are already on side. I want to speak to people who may not be on side to try and explain to them where I'm coming from, if for no other reason, and.
- [20:36]
A
If that's where the country is. I'm just saying his booking is insane. He'll just be like, coming up next, I'll be interviewing Andrew Tate and the stalker from Baby Reindeer. Then I'll be talking to the Mayor of London. I mean, sure, if that's where the middle is, that's where the middle is. I'm just truly fascinated. Since you became mayor in 2016, you've had six prime ministers. Mayor Khan.
- [20:58]
B
Now, without looking at your question, can you name them?
- [21:01]
A
No, but I did look up the fact that they willingly left. No one stormed Parliament. American politicians hold out power till the very end. Right now, as we're speaking, 11 members of Congress that are older than Joe Biden are running for reelection. What is this thing that British leaders have that American leaders don't?
- [21:25]
B
Well, firstly, I think it's really important to know when it's time to go. But actually, both of our countries are the most progressive democracies there are across the globe, actually. Yes. And actually, what I'd like to reflect on is how actually The US system worked in the end because Trump was a one term president. Very unusual in American democracies. But actually the capital riots didn't succeed and those responsible were brought to book. Except for President Trump, by the way. And that shows your separation of powers, the judiciary, the executive and the legislature, that there are tensions. Of course there are. We know what's happening with Roe vs Wade, but it works pretty well. And the same goes in the United Kingdom. Our Constitution is unwritten, but it works pretty well. We in this July had a change of government for the first time in 14 years. The previous prime minister didn't try and stay in. Right. He realized, he read the results and he left voluntarily and stuff. Because those are the rules of the game. The rules of the game work when people abide by the rules of the game. And the key thing is if you don't abide by the rules of the game, there is action and consequences for doing so. I know five officers lost their life in Washington, or six officers, sorry, but there are consequences for the rioters, right? And in the end, the riots weren't a successful insurrection, they were a failed riot. And so actually the system works.
- [22:47]
A
But this stepping down also, I feel when they have this kind of. They walk into the street and they.
- [22:51]
B
Do the press conference, ours is very different for yours, I'll leave the same day. So literally, you literally, the results come in at 10:00, 10:00pm, right? The next morning you're out. Whether you're the finance Secretary, the Prime Minister, we are out. You have this two month grace period where you can pardon people and, you know, start a war.
- [23:09]
A
Yeah, but I think there's something very unique. The answer I think I was looking for was both. You know, you're saying, yes, we listen to the rules, but I think there's two things that you guys have specific shame and a lack of ambition.
- [23:19]
B
I've come here to make friends with Americans, right. And you know, Hassan is just teeing them up for me to, you know, you know, alienate people and lose friends. I'm here to build bridges, man.
- [23:29]
A
All right, fine. Let's end with something fine. You want to, you want to promote London to do business and whatever. Okay, listen, I'll admit, pass it on.
- [23:36]
B
A great holiday in London. Please come to London.
- [23:38]
A
Yeah.
- [23:38]
B
If you're a business person invested in London, if you're a tourist, come to London. If you're a student, come to London. If you're a stand up comic, a comedian, and you're funny, come to London.
- [23:50]
A
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