Mel Robbins Literally Loves You

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hasan Minhaj Doesn’t Know – Episode: "Mel Robbins Literally Loves You"

Host: Hasan Minhaj (with cameo host Bert Kreischer)
Guest: Mel Robbins
Date: October 15, 2025
Run Time: ~67min (excluding ads and intro/outro)

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Episode Overview

This episode features renowned self-help guru Mel Robbins in a candid, energetic conversation. They discuss Mel’s latest book Let Them, her famously controversial habit of ending every podcast with “I love you,” and deep-dive into the psychology of boundaries, change, and how to deal with difficult family and social dynamics. The tone is irreverent, thoughtful, and relatable—true to the show's mission of accessible, curious, and sometimes absurd inquiry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Controversy of "I Love You" ([01:32] – [05:16])

• Topic: Why does Mel Robbins end every podcast with "I love you"? Why is this controversial?
• Major Insights:
  • Mel’s simple “I love you” sign-off has sparked debate online.
    • "That one sentence and those three words, I love you, has been a lightning rod." – Mel Robbins [02:02]
  • Her view of love: admiration and consideration, not endorsement.
  • It is possible—and necessary—to extend love as an act of seeing, considering, and encouraging others, not condoning actions.
    • "If you know your friend likes oat milk, and you get their coffee, that’s admiration and consideration. That’s an act of love." – Mel Robbins [04:13]
  • Inspiration came from a school administrator and Mr. Rogers, both of whom used public declarations of love to counteract widespread discouragement and foster hope.

2. The Power and Purpose of "Let Them" ([11:46] – [16:01])

• Topic: What is the “Let Them” Theory?
• Major Insights:
  • “Let them” is about relinquishing the exhausting illusion of control over others.
    • "If you stop trying to control and change other people and let them be who they are, suddenly you will have so much more time and energy, peace and power in your life." – Mel Robbins [11:50]
  • Rooted in Stoicism, Buddhism, radical acceptance, and the Serenity Prayer.
  • Core lesson: Stop wasting energy on the uncontrollable—namely, the actions and beliefs of others.

3. Setting Boundaries vs. Disconnection ([13:00] – [15:41])

• Topic: The misconception that “let them” is about emotional detachment.
• Major Insights:
  • Letting go is not cutting off; it’s about regaining your own energy and perspective.
    • "Your power has always been and will forever be in managing you. There’s only three things in life you can control: what you think, what you do, and what you do with your emotions." – Mel Robbins [14:13]
  • The balance is “let them—and let me”—set boundaries, then decide who you want to be and how you respond.

4. Why Is Letting Go So Hard? ([16:01] – [18:18])

• Topic: Control as a human survival instinct.
• Major Insights:
  • People get rattled when they feel out of control. Pushing others to change creates tension and resistance.
  • Attempting to control others often escalates their need to control themselves, leading to conflict.

5. Coping When Loved Ones Won’t Change ([18:18] – [25:03])

• Topic: How to apply “let them” when someone you love is making bad choices.
• Major Insights:
  • Pressure from loved ones often increases resistance to change ("Judgy and opinionated—even when it’s from love—backfires." [19:11])
  • People only change for themselves and when their pain of staying the same outweighs the discomfort of change.
    • “In order to change, a human being has to be willing to do the thing that’s hard now. And the only way that you’re willing to do the thing that’s hard now, is that when staying the same becomes harder.” – Mel Robbins [23:22]
  • Backing off, offering empathy, and giving space is more effective than pushing.

6. Mourning When Loved Ones Don’t Change ([25:11] – [29:43])

• Topic: Grieving and accepting the reality that others may not change, even when it hurts.
• Major Insights:
  • Giving someone "the dignity of their own experience" is not writing them off; it is the opposite of controlling or shaming.
  • When behavior is entrenched (e.g., hoarding), judgment or force escalates resistance; acceptance creates more space for possible self-motivation.

7. Navigating Everyday Annoyances & Relationships ([31:39] – [37:44])

• Practical Scenarios:
  • Messy partners, loud strangers, repeated bad habits.
• Major Insights:
  • You control your response—sometimes speak up, sometimes self-protect, always align with your values and energy.
  • Open-ended questions and honest dialogue (“Tell me why this matters to you”) succeed where nagging fails.
    • “When he explained how my behavior impacted him at a deeper level, it triggered in me...I didn’t think the boxes were that big of a deal.” – Mel Robbins (on her husband) [36:49]

8. The "ABC Loop" for Better Conversations ([42:09] – [43:58])

• A: Apologize for judgment or pressure and ask how someone feels.
• B: Back off and create space for their own friction and motivation.
• C: Congratulate or notice small efforts and model behavior (don't “coach”).
  • “You have to A, ask open ended questions and apologize. B, back the hell off and let them.” – Mel Robbins [47:04]
• Change is a long game; influence comes from acceptance, positive encouragement, and patience.

9. The "Let Me" Half ([44:23] – [45:56])

• Let Me = Take action and decide thoughtfully on YOUR next move.
  • “Let me is where you take your power back and you align [what you] do next with your values.” – Mel Robbins [44:39]
• Only letting go can feel isolating; “let me” brings strategy, connection, and hopefulness back.

10. Family, the Holidays, and Political Differences ([54:26] – [62:27])

• Common Listener Dilemmas: Thanksgiving table with clashing egos, political opinions, and generational divide.
• Mel’s Framework:
  • Decide why you’re engaging—with family or anyone—then manage your energy and expectations.
  • Let them have their frame of reference and beliefs; don’t brace for impact, expect it.
  • Influence is only possible when someone has emotional “space” to take in new ideas (i.e., not feeling judged).
    • “You can love somebody and be diabolically opposed to the fact that they have been spoon fed all of these lies...Two things can be true at once.” – Mel Robbins [57:25]
  • Sometimes, addressing offensive views means using empathy and open-ended questions, even if it’s hard.

11. Life Coach Lightning Round ([62:45] – [64:53])

• Q: How do I stop overthinking?
  • A: “Take the action. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Do it.” – Mel Robbins [62:48]
• Q: How do I stop doom scrolling?
  • A: “Put your fucking phone down.” – Mel Robbins [62:52]
• Q: What’s one habit to start today?
  • A: “Don’t sleep with your phone.” – Mel Robbins [62:56]
• Q: Can you forgive and still be angry?
  • A: “No. Because forgiving somebody requires you to stop wishing things were different.” – Mel Robbins [63:37]
• Q: When is it okay to quit?
  • A: “If you’re no longer willing to put in the work, quit. If you’re no longer excited by why you’re doing something, learn and pivot.” – Mel Robbins [65:07]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The hardest working kid is the kid who's failing. Do you know how hard it is to sit in a classroom and not do well?" – Mel Robbins [00:14]
• "I love you, that I love you, that I love you, that I love you." (satirizing her catchphrase) – Mel Robbins [01:46]
• "Your power has always been and will forever be in managing you." – Mel Robbins [14:13]
• "Let them does not mean you're allowing anything to happen. Let them is you forcing yourself to recognize what's happening." – Mel Robbins [20:04]
• “People only change when they're ready to change for themselves. They will not change for you.” – Mel Robbins [22:30]
• “You have to give your father the dignity of his own experience.” – Mel Robbins [25:42]
• “Let them. And let me.” – Mel Robbins [44:42]
• “Two things can be true at once. You can love somebody and think they're a fucking moron.” – Mel Robbins [57:25]
• “Take the action. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Do it.” – Mel Robbins [62:48]
• “Put your fucking phone down.” – Mel Robbins [62:52]
• “You can't forgive someone if you're still holding on to that bargaining that you do.” – Mel Robbins [63:47]
• “Let them.” (Billboard advice) – Mel Robbins [63:07]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Controversy over “I love you”: [01:32] – [05:16]
• Definition and origins of “Let Them”: [11:46] – [15:41]
• Boundaries and “Let Me”: [44:23] – [45:56]
• Navigating family/holiday conflict: [54:26] – [62:27]
• Lightning Round: [62:45] – [66:09]

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Tone & Style

• The episode blends earnest self-help with irreverent, relatable humor (e.g., riffing on hoarder moms saving VHS tapes, “nihilistic sociopath” jokes, and Indian Larry David impressions).
• Mel Robbins is empathetic, direct, research-driven, and funny, quick to call out “judgment,” and insists on the humanity behind every struggle.
• The guest/host dynamic is playful and intellectually honest.

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Closing Thoughts

For anyone grappling with difficult personal dynamics, this episode distills Mel Robbins’ philosophy: You can’t change other people, only yourself—and that’s where real power comes from. The “let them / let me” framework is both simple and radically empowering, especially when facing family drama, interpersonal frustrations, or the universal pain of wanting better for those we love. Mel roots her advice in science and lived experience, making this episode engaging, validating, and actionable for all listeners.

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For more on Mel Robbins, check out her podcast, her book Let Them, or her viral videos. For more episodes, visit Lemonada Media.

Transcript

[Bert Kreischer]

Lemonade.

[Mel Robbins]

Who's the hardest working kid in a classroom?

[Bert Kreischer]

Generally? Probably the Chinese or Indian kid.

[Mel Robbins]

If you're saying that because they're getting A's, you're wrong. The hardest working kid is the kid who's failing. Do you know how hard it is to sit in a classroom and not do well?

[Bert Kreischer]

I mean, Mel, respectfully, I've gotten some D's and F's and I let it happen. Mel Robbins is one of the biggest self help gurus on planet Earth. Her podcast is a Smash hit. Her YouTube videos have been viewed over a billion times. And Oprah called her latest book, quote, by far one of the best self help books I have ever read. I am the prime target for the daddy didn't hug me industrial complex. And I love me some Mel Robbins. She tells you exactly what to do in both short form content and long form content. And sometimes adults need that, including me. So I sat down with Mel for a big conversation about her latest book, the number one New York Times bestseller, let Them. We talked about setting boundaries, how I supposedly can't change my parents. And we also discussed the biggest, most shocking controversy of her career, her supposed love of everyone. Does that include Satan? You're about to find out.

[Mel Robbins]

Hurry. Right away. No delay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Stop.

[Mel Robbins]

Babe, make your daddy glad. You have had such a laugh.

[Bert Kreischer]

You've been involved in controversy and one of your biggest controversies involves three words.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay?

[Bert Kreischer]

Do you know what those three words are?

[Mel Robbins]

I love you. Is that it? Yeah, yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

You end every podcast by saying I love you.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. As your friend, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you. I love you, that I love you, that I love you, that I love you.

[Bert Kreischer]

It caused quite the hullabaloo on the interweb. Well, you had to put out a statement. You had to. You clarified why you end your podcast with I love you.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. That one sentence and those three words, I love you has been a lightning rod. And. And for me, it's kind of mind blowing that it's controversial.

[Bert Kreischer]

What's going on here?

[Mel Robbins]

What do you mean what's going on here?

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, what's going on here?

[Mel Robbins]

Why are people so freaked out about the words I love you? Why? Why is. See, here's what I think is bananas.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

What is love? I mean, how do you define love? Am I putting you on the spot?

[Bert Kreischer]

No, no, no. I mean, we can go there, but let's go there. I think it is a deep understanding and yearning and acceptance of another person.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Either somewhat romantically or not even romantically, but you Care for them deeply in your heart.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

I think it's consideration and admiration.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

I think when you admire something about somebody else and when you have them in mind, that's consideration. That's an act of love.

[Bert Kreischer]

You are an incredibly popular author and podcast host around the world. Let's game theory this out. Let's say these people are listening to your podcast. Do you love them?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

Charlie Sheen, you love them.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And here's why. The reason why, when you say, I.

[Bert Kreischer]

Love you, I love you, Charlie Sheen.

[Mel Robbins]

When you say that.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

You're not endorsing something.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure.

[Mel Robbins]

If somebody is taking the time. Time that they don't have, of course, to listen to a podcast whose entire mission is to help you do better and to help you be better in your life, whatever that means for you.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right. Kim Jong Un. AirPods in.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay. So if you have that intention. Right. I. In my definition of love, which is I admire something about you. I admire that you are longtime fugitive.

[Bert Kreischer]

And rebel leader of the Lord's Resistance Army. We admire him that he is taking time to grow.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And I have you in mind. It doesn't mean I'm endorsing anything that you're doing.

[Bert Kreischer]

The ghost of Osama bin Laden.

[Mel Robbins]

Like, I don't know what you want.

[Bert Kreischer]

Me to admit to here from the other realm. AirPods in.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. Well, look, Satan, this is what I say. Now. Hold on a second.

[Bert Kreischer]

AirPods Max on.

[Mel Robbins]

Hold on a second.

[Bert Kreischer]

Listening to the Melrose.

[Mel Robbins]

Hold on a second. One of the reasons why I don't give a. Like, I don't. You're not gonna rattle me on this. Cause here's the thing. I think one of the reasons why most people that are like, what the hell is this voice? You don't even know me. You're not hearing it enough in your life. You don't feel it. Yeah. You don't talk to yourself in a way where you admire and consider yourself. See, an act of love to me is holding the door for a stranger. An act of love to me is if you know your friend likes oat milk, then you get their coffee with oat milk, and you don't even need to ask them because you know, that's admiring something about somebody's health and having them in mind. It is the simplest thing in the world, and most of us do not experience a feeling of being considered or being admired for caring enough about yourself to want to do better. Right. And, you know, I was inspired BY this from Mr. Rogers, who I always felt like he was talking to Me on tv, growing up.

[Bert Kreischer]

The friends who know you love you cheerfully. I do, too.

[Mel Robbins]

But I remember about. It must have been like 15 years ago. I was at the Pennsylvania Women's Conference. Okay. And there was a woman, and I'm. I'm not going to remember her name, but she was a. She had worked in the administration of, like, the Philadelphia school system.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

And she started to do this thing at the end of the day where she would take. Remember the old. All right, everybody, you know, announcement from the Friends of those office. And she would end the day with an announcement.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

That said something to the effect of. And, you know, I expect to see you all back here tomorrow, ready to learn. And in case no one else tells you today, I want to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and your ability to learn. I'll see you tomorrow. You. Yeah. And what she was talking about is that most of the kids that she was serving did not feel loved and were not told that they were loved and were getting messaging from around society and around the neighborhood and from the experiences of their lives that they weren't loved. And that made a huge impression on me. And it shifted how I thought about love from this romantic love or this endorsement of. I love everything that you're doing. No, I love you for holding the door. I love you for taking time to listen to this, because I know you could do a lot of other things. I love you because I know nobody else is telling you that. And I think one of the reasons why there's so much evil and harm and violence and horrible things is because of fear and hatred and because people do not feel loved. And so to me, I will always double down on people's capacity and capability to do better. I don't think that it's ever an issue of somebody's capability to be a better person. I think the single biggest thing that stands in people's way is discouragement and lack of hope. This sense that, why does it matter? Like, nobody cares about me, Nobody loves me. Like, it might work for you, might work for Mel Robbins, but this advice isn't going to work for me, so why bother? And if you.

[Bert Kreischer]

This fast track to nihilism, essentially.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, if you can give somebody hope, because there's not. There's nothing but information out there.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

Like, if you don't know how to. Like, first of all, I think everybody does know how to change your life for the better, and I can prove it to you. Could you make a list right now of 10 things that would make your life worse.

[Bert Kreischer]

10 would make my life worse, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Easily.

[Mel Robbins]

Easily. Yeah, sure. So of course you can make a list of 10 things that would make your life better. Yeah, of course you can.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. I mean, the challenge would be doing them, but.

[Mel Robbins]

Correct. But why don't people do it? There's a number of complicated reasons that have to do with the way your brain is wired, that have to do with past conditioning and patterns and all that kind of stuff. But one of the biggest reasons is this sense that it doesn't matter anyway, this sense of discouragement that it's too far gone, you're too far gone. It's not gonna work. I don't have time. Like, nobody believes in me. I don't believe in me. It's never worked out for me. And so what I am trying to do more than anything else in my work is not only simplify the complicated stuff so that it's accessible to all of us.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right.

[Mel Robbins]

But add in a layer of encouragement and hope so that you'll actually do it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, can I ask you this? Speaking of being loved, you are deeply loved by one of the most powerful people on planet Earth, Oprah.

[Mel Robbins]

I have over the years read probably thousands of books, and this is by far just one of the best self help books I've ever read.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's essentially an American coronation. How does that feel?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, it was an out of body experience to have that happen because I grew up watching her. And I have always looked at her as a North Star of somebody who has tried very hard through her career to really empower people and to simplify information and to give lots of people a platform and a voice. And so it was honestly, like, I am surprised that I could continue to wear the underwear that I was wearing because I could not believe that it was happening. I almost like, you know, lost it.

[Bert Kreischer]

You're saying you almost peed your pants?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And that's okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

I mean, that's a moment I'm sitting.

[Mel Robbins]

There saying to myself, don't say anything. Don't say anything. Don't say anything. Don't say anything. Because it is one thing to meet somebody that you admire. It is a completely different experience when they admire you back.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And the other thing that I am grateful for is that I had always dreamt of a moment where I would meet Oprah and where I would be able to have a conversation with her about whatever it was that I was working on or in some way make an impact, but to meet her at a moment in time where we were more peers and where I wasn't needing anything and to feel as though I could have a conversation with somebody at a level where we were just talking about this thing that I had written with my daughter and the impact that it was making. It was one of the highlights of my life. Because, again, to be admired.

[Bert Kreischer]

Were you simultaneously being like, is this happening or were you just in the moment?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, because. Because. Because what? The. The success of the let them theory book is so multidimensional. Yeah. And there is no doubt in my mind that there is something so much bigger than me going on.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right.

[Mel Robbins]

That they're like, I feel surrounded by ancient wisdom ancestors, people that have had very similar messages in the past, that this is a modern version of very old truths about life.

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, for our listeners who are living underneath a rock, are fans of the show, but have not read your book.

[Mel Robbins]

You don't need to read the book.

[Bert Kreischer]

What is the lethem? I'll tell you what.

[Mel Robbins]

The Let them theory. Super simple.

[Bert Kreischer]

What is the let them theory?

[Mel Robbins]

It's a simple truth about life. If you stop trying to control and change other people and let them be who they are, suddenly you will have so much more time and energy, peace and power in your life. The biggest source of stress in your life is other people. They're very annoying and frustrating and they say things and do things that are hurtful and upsetting. And all of that is true. And how much space they occupy in your mind, how much stress they actually cause you is within your control. And so the let them theory teaches you if you stop trying to control the uncontrollable. And the number one thing you can't control in life is other people. What they say, what they do, what they believe, what they feel, when they change, if they change, you cannot control it. And any psychologist will tell you the more you focus on things you can't control, the more stressed out and out of control you feel.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And modern life is like death by a thousand cuts. From traffic to headlines to the crazy, horrifying things that are going on in the world that are already happening.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

Already happening.

[Bert Kreischer]

Can I tell you why it resonated with me as a comedian? Yes. I mean, the moment I got into the book, I was like, let that. I love this. Write people off. Love that file. Trash. Empty trash. Are you sure? Yes. Emotional arm bar to everyone. Remember the Heisman Trophy. That's me with my heart.

[Mel Robbins]

You are not with your heart. See, this is why you get pissed off when I say I love you. You're like, get away from email, Robbins, you do not love me. This is why I'm gonna make jokes about it and see if you take the bait. And I'm not taking the bait.

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, I had a comedy pitch for you is you can still do the three words. You could say, someone loves you. It may not be me, but someone.

[Mel Robbins]

That's true. That's actually a great thing to say. But here's the thing. It is not file delete. See, this is what people get wrong about. The Let them theory.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's not the HOV Lane denialism. Because I like that.

[Mel Robbins]

No. No, you don't. That's not true. That's not true. You do not like that at all.

[Bert Kreischer]

What do you mean it's not true? There's a part of you that's like, hey, you can't hurt me if I never believed in you in the first place.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, that's true. That's true. However, because you get to choose how much power you give to people. And the problem right now is that you're turning other people into a problem and they don't need to be. And when you get so worked up and stressed out about what people are doing and what they're saying and what's happening now. Da, da, da. You miss one of the most important truths about life. Your power is not in managing them. Your power has always been and will forever be in managing you. There's only three things in life you can control. You can control what you think about something, you can control what you do or don't do, and you can control what you do with the emotions that rise and fall. That's it? That's all you got?

[Bert Kreischer]

So is it a bit of a boundaries thing?

[Mel Robbins]

It's the best boundary in the world. And one of the reasons why this is so resonant is because the principles in the Let them theory have been true since the beginning of time. If you like Stoicism, when you say these four words, let them and let me, you are applying stoicism in modern life. You are applying the Serenity Prayer in modern life. You're applying Buddhism in modern life. You're applying detachment theory, radical acceptance. If you're a fan of Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, the entire thesis of the book about how your power isn't in what's happening out there. It's always in your response to it, right? But if you allow other people's inconsiderate behavior, their expectations, their guilt, their 6:00pm Zoom meetings at 6:00 clock on A Friday. If you allow the headlines to drain your time and drain your energy, you will have no time and energy for yourself, and you'll have no time and energy to be strategic about what you're going to do about what's happening.

[Bert Kreischer]

I get what you're saying intellectually, but why do we as people get so frustrated by the fact that we can't control other people? Like, in my mind, everything you're saying is 100% resonating.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Bert Kreischer]

But in practice, people can put me in a tizzy.

[Mel Robbins]

Of course. And why?

[Bert Kreischer]

Why are we like this? As grown adults, we know this well.

[Mel Robbins]

There's a simple explanation. Your need to feel in control is hardwired as a survival mechanism. So if you really think about it, when you feel like you're in control of your day, you feel safe, you feel happy. And when you wake up, you want to know how work's going to go. You want to know how that conversation is going to go. You want to know what you're going to eat. You want to know. And that's never going to change. But here's the problem. The problem is that if you do something that pisses me off or frustrates me, yes. Now, your behavior or your opinion or your emotional reaction just triggered my need to feel in control. And so I then make a mistake instead of going, okay, well, I can't control you. I'm just going to let you do that and recognize that controlling you isn't where my power is. And I'm going to pull back and I'm going to say, okay, well, let me ask myself, how am I going to respond? Am I going to laugh? Am I going to get rattled? Am I going to get up and leave? Like, I have a lot of control here. If you don't say, let them and let me. What you do instead is you instinctively, I step across the line. And now I try to manage you. Are you okay? Or what if we do this? Or, okay, I'll change my plans or I'll, like, bitch to somebody else about what you're doing. And now I'm all stressed out because your behavior is pissing me off. And then when I go to try to control you, you know what happens now that I'm going? You know, I don't think you should eat that steak. You know, I don't think you should go out tonight. You know, you've already had a second beer. You're like, don't tell me what to do. So now I've bumped up to your need to control Yourself.

[Bert Kreischer]

You know what I've struggled with?

[Mel Robbins]

Tell me.

[Bert Kreischer]

I totally get.

[Mel Robbins]

Is this a joke?

[Bert Kreischer]

No, no, no. It's not a joke. I mean, some of. I mean, the crazy part is that that is the cosmic joke. I'm not even trying to be funny right now. Like, I get very triggered. Not by people in the Internet comment section, not by the headlines. I've gotten pretty good at understanding that that is a hellscape ran by Satan himself. But it's really hard when I genuinely love someone and they won't change. I'll give you an example. My dad has diabetes, and for the life of me, he will not take his insulin.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay?

[Bert Kreischer]

Or he'll forget it at home.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

What do I do? Do I just let him slowly die? I want him to listen to what I'm saying. And so my frustration comes from you're not listening to me. You're not receiving what I'm saying. And my God, man, I'm one of the few people that actually loves you. Real talk. You don't know how mom feels about you. Actually, you do. Take your fucking insulin, bro.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. What does he say? Don't tell me what to do. I don't feel like taking my insulin. I'm a grown ass. You don't think I know I'm supposed to take my insulin? But if I'm moron, you treat me like a moron.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. He'll quickly pivot into what's wrong with me. Or of course he'll talk about, have you considered gas prices?

[Mel Robbins]

Scared? Have you considered that he feels like, why bother? Like this is gonna get me anyway?

[Bert Kreischer]

I'm gonna be honest, you know, I've considered all possibilities, and I think he's just losing his mind. And by the way, could be. Let's live in this channel, because a lot of people feel this way with their parents and with their loved ones. So say your parent has the brain of an NFL quarterback with cte.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay?

[Bert Kreischer]

Essentially, their brain has turned into Joe Biden oatmeal mush.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

But you love them, of course. And you do want things to change, to extend the series that is life. Of course I want Grandma to be here longer.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, of course, of course.

[Bert Kreischer]

But if I listen to the let them theory, I am going to be an active viewer with Spike Lee. Front row seats to your decline. That's heartbreaking for me.

[Mel Robbins]

That's true. So let's talk about what is really good about that.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

And why the let them theory is going to help you. And some fundamental truths about all human beings that Once you accept this is truth, it'll pivot your approach. Because here's the thing, let them does not mean you're allowing anything to happen. Let them is you forcing yourself to recognize what's happening. Big difference. So there's nothing passive about going, well, just let them. Let them. Is the first part because you're in a tension battle with your dad?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Is it working?

[Bert Kreischer]

No.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay. So if it's not working, then anybody who's a rational, you know, smart person would say, okay, if me worrying or me having an opinion about this or me pressuring my dad to change isn't working. Because here's the thing, pressuring someone else to change doesn't motivate people to change. It creates resistance to them changing. So you're part of the problem because you're being judgy. Even though the judgment is coming from a loving place, you're being judgy and opinionated because you're scared. And underneath the fear, you deeply love your dad.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And you know, when we look at people in our lives who are letting themselves go, who are succumbing to addiction, who can't get off the couch and get motivated to find a job, we look at them and we're like, you fucking idiot. Like, it's so obvious what you need to do. And we never take a step back and go, well, maybe there's something deeper going on because they clearly know what they could do, but there's something deeper going on in either their psychology or a sense that it's not gonna help anyway. It's too far gone. And so they're stuck in tension with themselves. And then we come along and we're like, well, you should really study if you want better grades. They're like, no shit, Sherloc, I'm a moron now. And so here's what I want you to. What I want you to understand. And for anybody that's listening or watching right now, for the person that you're frustrated with, I want you to understand, number one, they know. They know what they need to do. And all of the love based judgment and pressure and opinions and support is backfiring.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay?

[Mel Robbins]

So that's number one. Number two, you have to accept the truth that people only change when they're ready to change for themselves. They will not change for you. They will not change for their grandkids. They will not change for anybody but themselves. And number three, and this is a truth. And there's a lot of research from this amazing expert, Dr. K. He goes by the Healthy gamer online. He's a Harvard trained psychiatrist that specializes in gaming addiction. And he says we don't understand our own motivational circuitry. I certainly didn't until he explained this to me. He basically said our brains are wired to move toward what feels easy. That's why we sit on the couch. That's why we scroll on our phone. Even though we don't want to spend six hours a day on our phone. That's why we avoid working on a resume. That's why your dad avoids doing what he needs to do. Whether it's walking after dinner to lower, you know, his. Yep. You know, or taking the insulin or wearing the monitor or doing whatever he needs to do. We default to what's easy in the moment. In order to change, a human being has to be willing to do the thing that's hard now. And the only way that you're willing to do the thing that's hard now is that when staying the same becomes harder than the thing that you're avoiding. You know, when we were researching the Let Them theory book, we talked to 57 world renowned experts. There's an 18 page bibliography. There's resources in the back of the book that are free for you to download. And you know, one of the things that became very, very, very clear as we were researching all of this is that, you know, one of the experts in addiction and sobriety said people only get sober when being drunk is harder than doing the work you've been scared to do.

[Bert Kreischer]

When the pain is bigger than.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's so exponentially bigger than what the work is.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And human beings, like, if you've ever had this experience with your life, most people don't wake up motivated and then feel great. Most people get so frustrated with themselves that there's this negative organizing pain moment where you're like, that's it. I've just had it with myself. I gotta do something.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And you're not doing it because your wife is bitching at you. You do it because you've been bitching at yourself inside. And you finally get so sick of where you're at that you're like, that's it, I'm going to the gym. That's it. I've got to do something here.

[Bert Kreischer]

Can we stay with.

[Mel Robbins]

But I'm teach you how to be more effective.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. There was a thread that you had there where you're telling me, I feel sad. And I think you're right.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

My heart is breaking. And I want to ask you for your devices. How do I process and mourn the idea that someone I love fundamentally won't change. So I can write off that friend from high school. I can write off that old college roommate. I can write off that guy that I shared a job with for four years in my 20s. But it is so heartbreaking to write off someone that you have known your entire life and loved your entire life unconditionally. How do I reconcile?

[Mel Robbins]

You're not writing them off. You're giving your father the dignity of his own experience.

[Bert Kreischer]

I don't know if it's dignity. I'll give you an example. So my mother, she's a hoarder, okay? She still has VHS cassette tapes stacked up.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

In our guest room.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I go, mom, you got to get rid of Dunston checks in on vhs, which is a film that I watched when I was a child. It's about a monkey that checks into a hotel and then causes a rampage. We don't have a VHS player. My children won't watch VHS. I loved that movie in 1993. But I'm 39 years old. We gotta move on. And I tried to throw away Dunston checks in.

[Mel Robbins]

It's the worst thing you could do.

[Bert Kreischer]

You're right. And it was nuclear fucking war, because.

[Mel Robbins]

She'S transferred her own emotional attachment to physical objects. And so it's not a cassette tape. It represents something else, like when somebody has a hoarding issue. And you should talk to a licensed professional about it, because there's a very close connection between depression and OCD and hoarding. And so you're dealing with a mental health issue that is manifesting itself in things. And here's the thing about hoarding. This is so much more common than people believe. This is not that your mom's some sort of freak. Your mom is transferring pain and emotional stuckness to things. And it's a way in keeping things that she feels in control.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes. But I tried to articulate this to her, and I said, mom, you're being buried by these Windows 95 CD ROM drives.

[Mel Robbins]

You want to change?

[Bert Kreischer]

I think so. I think she thinks she does, but I know she's not.

[Mel Robbins]

Here's how you know.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

Watch her behavior, not what she says. So people tell you who they are through their behavior?

[Bert Kreischer]

Because I check her, but then she checks me. So, Mel, check this out. So I go, mom, we don't need to have Windows xp, okay?

[Mel Robbins]

So here's how I'm calling, and then.

[Bert Kreischer]

She'Ll be like, hussin, you gotta call more. And both are. Right? Both People are right. I don't call enough.

[Mel Robbins]

But she's holding onto this stuff because if you don't call enough, the things remind her of you. And I know that's a harsh thing, but here's what I want you to understand.

[Bert Kreischer]

The Windows XP CD ROM drive is reminding her of me.

[Mel Robbins]

It might remind her of a time when you were using. Might remind her of a time when you lived at home. It might remind her of a time when you were younger.

[Bert Kreischer]

Got it.

[Mel Robbins]

And she is not able. And again, I am making Parmesan cheese.

[Bert Kreischer]

Packets that have expired in 1998.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, but do you hear how judgmental you are?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

So if I actually throw out the Parmesan cheese packets.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes. That may kill us.

[Mel Robbins]

No. Let me tell you, I now have to admit to you and me that I'm wrong and bad and that you're right. If she holds onto it, she stays in control. Because your mother has a control right now. And it's not driving her crazy, it's driving you crazy.

[Bert Kreischer]

Dunstan checks in on vhs, but no.

[Mel Robbins]

You keep making jokes, but this is true.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

She's not bothered by this, by the way. This is just how she lives her life. You're the one who's bothered by this. And that's why you have to say, I need to let her. I need to let her live her life. And let me take a step back and take a more loving and accepting approach that this is who my mother is right now. And because the judgment and the jokes are not working, it's actually making her dig in. And here's what you're not understanding. There's no space for her to really admit out loud, this actually isn't working. And it's kind of starting to scare me because she's already under the mom, what's going on? And this is unbelievable. And your dad might be saying things, too. And so he might not be doing his insulin because he feels like he doesn't know what to do with his partner.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And so it's all a manifestation of people trying to control their own environment and their own experience in life. And when you feel judged, you just double down.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, hi, everybody. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not gonna talk about food waste this time. I'm going to talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill. It could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens, because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with the Mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can. But it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and raps and eyes about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks. But the clincher is that you can depend on it. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with Mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[Bert Kreischer]

Let's do a few examples of how you can help me navigate the blue and red wires of let them and then we can transition to let me.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, great. Because there is no let them without let me.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's what I'm saying.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, but.

[Bert Kreischer]

But here's the problem, okay? Is. Is I instantly turn into Indian Larry David because I am in a series of scenes of chaos. Say I have.

[Mel Robbins]

You have to.

[Bert Kreischer]

But. But I have a partner, okay? I have a partner. And hypothetically, let's say this partner walks out of the shower every single day soaking wet.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Just dripping.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Splish. Splashing all over beautiful tile.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

I'll take the train. They'll be an asshole listening to TikToks on full volume.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. I hate that. I hate that. Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

Thank you, Mel.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

Should I just let these people do all this bullshit?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, it depends. Because you're in control. You're in control of your response. And your response is gonna change every single day based on what's going on in your life, based on how activated you are emotionally, based on what you actually think is worth your time and worth your energy. Like I used to. Let's take the example of the train, okay? It drives me insane.

[Bert Kreischer]

Insane.

[Mel Robbins]

Insane. When you are on a plane or in a public space and some idiot is sitting there just blasting the FaceTime or as if we're all like just thrilled in this public space to be hearing your dumb ass. Watching this stuff used to drive me incredibly insane. I would get all agitated and huff and puff and I'd try to signal, you know, and the scowls and that stuff. The person over there.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

Is not even remotely bothered by me. They're just living their life. They're just doing their thing. I get to choose how much that person upsets me. Now, here's what I want you to consider. Your time and your energy is your single most valuable commodity in life.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

If you value it. Why would you allow some idiot that does not understand basic decency and how to be respectful and conscientious in a public space of everybody else?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Why would you allow somebody like that to drain your most precious resources? So here's what you get to choose. On some days, you might calmly act like the parent in a society that needs parenting and get up and walk over and say, oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me. Do you mind wearing a pair of headphones or just turn it down? I'm having a hard time on the phone call over here. Sorry to interrupt. And nine times out of 10, most people are like, oh, sorry, I didn't realize it was so loud. Every once in a while, you might get a dickhead or, like, have some sort of whatever, and they're just, okay, noted. And everybody else is like, oh, noted. Other days that might happen, and you might go, okay, and you take out your own headphones. Other days, you might get up and move to a different seat. It depends on how you want to protect your time and your energy. Let's talk about your partner. Your partner.

[Bert Kreischer]

You have this thing about, I'm the bad partner. I walk out of the shower wet every time.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, great. So what your partner should do, instead of yelling at you and making you wrong, which when your partner yells at you and makes you wrong. So my husband and I, we've had this issue around cardboard boxes. Okay, well, everybody orders all this stuff. You know, cardboard boxes come to your house.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

And my husband is the kind of person that wants you to open the box and then flatten it immediately and then take it to the place where recycling is, which, in our. Where we live, is the garage.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure.

[Mel Robbins]

And he likes it stacked a certain way because. Whatever. I am not the kind of person that opens the box and then takes the stuff out and then flattens the box. I tend to open the box and then leave it. And then I make, like, a nice Tetris pyramid thing next to the door to the garage.

[Bert Kreischer]

Love that.

[Mel Robbins]

Because I'm gonna get to it later because you and I both have adhd, and so we're like, okay, why would I complete the task when I can do the thing in front of me? And since the box flattening is.

[Bert Kreischer]

And by the way, I'm on your side because messes are horizontal, not vertical.

[Mel Robbins]

Correct.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's a stack. That's a pile.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, that's a stack. Like, I'm actually organizing it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. So, respectfully, I think your husband needs to be fine.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, yeah. Chris is out of line. I know, I know he's a death doula and leads men's retreats and is a Buddhist, but he's out of line on this one.

[Bert Kreischer]

Totally wrong.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay. I'm right in this one.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

So. But the thing is, is like your partner, he has said to me, look, could you just flatten the boxes? Cause it's creating a headache.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you told him no. Right.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I said, look, can't I just do it later? And so at first I was like, okay. And then, of course, I don't do it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure.

[Mel Robbins]

Because it's not important to me.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right.

[Mel Robbins]

And I don't really wanna change. And I don't really wanna change for him. And even though I'm like, okay, I keep forgetting to do wasn't until he sat me down and said, you know, I've asked you a couple times about this, and you clearly don't care and you don't respect me. And let me tell you why this matters to me. It matters to me because every time I see the stack of boxes next to the door.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

I feel like you think I'm the maid here. I feel like you don't value my time, and so you're leaving that for me to do. And here's what happened. When he explained how my behavior impacted him at a deeper level, it triggered in me because of my values. I don't want Chris to feel that way. I didn't think the boxes were that big of a deal. The mistake in that moment is, like, what you don't want to do in that moment when somebody takes the time. Like you might take the time with your dad to say, you know, first of all, I want to apologize, dad, Because I can't even imagine how annoying it must be to have me, somebody without diabetes, telling you what to do.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure.

[Mel Robbins]

And I can't imagine how frustrating it must be that I'm laying all this on you. And you've got a lot of other things going on. You're an adult. And so I just want to apologize to you. And here's what I've never done. I've never actually asked you how you feel about how things are going with your health. And what's interesting, when you apologize and then you ask an open ended question, how do you feel about your health, dad, and how things are going, Even if your dad's like, ah, it's fine what you just did by apologizing for the pressure and the judgment and like the barrage is. And then asking an open ended question how you feel about that. And they're like you've just stirred up the friction that they already feel even if they don't speak. Well, I'm actually really frustrated with myself. I'm really overwhelmed with mom's hoarding and like it's just making everything feel unmanageable right now. Yeah, you know, thanks for asking. Like I don't know what to do because everything feels like it's. And then the headlines and then the news is on and I just, the world feels like it's going and I just is you're stirring up this internal friction because people aren't idiots. I choose to believe everybody wants to thrive. I choose to believe that people do well when they can.

[Bert Kreischer]

So say I go, I'm sorry that I'm annoying.

[Mel Robbins]

How can I help you? No, not annoying. I'm sorry I've been judging you.

[Bert Kreischer]

I'm sorry that I've been judging you.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

And how can I help you?

[Mel Robbins]

No, not how can I help you, it's how do you feel about your hoarding, Mom? How do you feel about your current health and the way that your diabetes is going? Dad, none of us ever stop and actually ask somebody that open ended question about like, you know, I remember I had a situation with our son who had massive issues in school. We didn't find out till he was in fourth grade that he had severe dyslexia, dysgraphia, adhd, all kinds of stuff. And we ended up being able to get him into a school in Boston for kids that have language based learning styles. And it was just profoundly helpful. And then he gets into high school and I would hear him upstairs playing Fortnite or whatever he was playing. You hear it on the floor and what the hell is he? He's up there alone. What is going on?

[Bert Kreischer]

He's having the time of his life, of course.

[Mel Robbins]

And I would march upstairs and I would throw open, you got to get off those video games. It's 10 o' clock at night. Have you done your, you know you're not doing well in school. Have you done your. Like he's an idiot. Like, he doesn't know that. Of course he knows that. Playing video games is not going to help him at school. Of Course he knows that he's not doing well at school and he should probably be studying. And then me coming in, I just pile on judgment, right? Because I know better and I'm telling him what to do. And I don't realize that I'm making him double down. Because here's what we don't consider. Who's the hardest working kid in a classroom.

[Bert Kreischer]

Generally? Probably the Chinese or Indian kid.

[Mel Robbins]

If you're saying that because they're getting as you're wrong. The hardest working kid is the kid who's failing. Do you know how hard it is to sit in a classroom and not do well?

[Bert Kreischer]

I mean, Mel, respectfully, I've gotten some D's and F's and I let it happen.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, letting it happen is one thing, but sitting and knowing that you're not doing what you could be doing to your potential and that everybody around looks at you like a loser, even though you got, you know, the hoodie up.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you're mentally, there is, there is something happening upstairs. You are trying to engage with the.

[Mel Robbins]

Material and you actually say to yourself all day long, long, that you're stupid and that you don't care. And the truth is you do care. And if you knew how to do well, you would be doing well. The hardest working friend that you have on their health is the person who's overweight and not taking care of their health. Do you know how hard it is to drag more weight around and to know that you're slowly giving up on yourself? And so start with the presumption that people want to thrive and they either don't know how or they're so discouraged and beaten down and overwhelmed by life that they don't think even the little things are gonna make a difference. And so when you ask your dad that open ended question.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right, right, right.

[Mel Robbins]

You actually open up the truth for him. And this is super important. This is super important because you're not coming from judgment. You're coming from acceptance. Hey, dad, gonna apologize. Hey, mom, gonna apologize. Hey, partner. I'm gonna apologize for hounding you about the shower. It must be super annoying. I don't know why I'm the police around this thing. I haven't even asked you, like, how are you feeling about, like all the water everywhere and how I'm doing and what's this like for you? We don't ever do that. And when you open that up, something magical happens when it comes to motivation. And now this is what I call the ABC loop. A is apologize for judging people and coming at people and thinking, you know better, and then ask, how you feeling about it with our son? I'm like, dude, I'm really sorry I've been so judgy. Like, I haven't even asked you, how do you feel about school? That's all he said.

[Bert Kreischer]

So what did you do with that?

[Mel Robbins]

Let him. Because now what I'm bringing to the surface is his own tension. Of course he wants to do well. And then all you say is something like, well, you know, if there's ever anything I can do, you just let me know, you know? Have you ever thought about what you might want to do about it? That's another, hey, dad, have you thought about what you might want to do about it? Okay, well, if I would imagine you have good ideas about it. And the reason why you ask, have you ever thought about it? All they do is think about it and then talk themselves out of it. I guarantee with your mom, she sees the stacks of vhs, she probably thinks, okay, I should probably do something. And then she's like, I can't. And so when you ask them, you know, I think you probably have some ideas about this. I don't know. Even if they don't say it, you're organizing that friction. Because what have we also learned? A person only changes when they're ready to change for themselves. And you have to have a level of pain and the friction internally. I know I'm giving up on myself. I know there's something better. That is what somebody needs. And then you have to back off.

[Bert Kreischer]

This is a bit of a generational shift because you and I grew up, let's call them in houses, that maybe used strictness as a way to get, let's call them, results. Willingly or unwillingly, you're gonna make your bed. You're gonna get straight A's.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

You're gonna get to class on time.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. Which is why you're now doing it to your parents.

[Bert Kreischer]

Totally.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

But the let them theory is kind of a different way to approach them. Take us through. Let them and then let me.

[Mel Robbins]

Great. Because, you know, a lot of people love the let them part. Because when your friends go out for lunch without you, and then you see that and you're, like, hurt, and you're like, well, let them. You have this superiority. Like, well, I'm better than that. Anyway, there's like this judginess to it. Well, let my mom hoard.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

You're judging, and that helps you detach emotionally. But then what's gonna happen is, if all you ever Say is, well, let my mom hoard and let my dude do this and let my friends do that, and let me.

[Bert Kreischer]

You become a sociopath.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, you basically a nihilistic sociopath. You also feel lonely, and you also start to feel so disconnected from people because you're like, well, you know, I'm gonna let my siblings never reach out. Like, I'm sick of reaching out. And you start to sit with your loneliness, and then you're like, well, now what? And that's where the let me part comes in. Let me is where you take your power back and you align do next with your values. And you also stop yourself from being emotional and reactive, and you get strategic. Let me decide what I'm gonna think about this. Let me decide what I'm gonna do or not do. And so in your case, what I'm gonna not do is judge. What I am gonna do is I'm gonna follow the research and the steps that influence people. See, we're so busy controlling and trying to change people through force and judgment.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

We don't realize the power of influence that most people actually change when you give them space to not feel judged. Like, you want to learn how to love people. Learn how to let people be who they are and who they're not. Learn how to love people as they are.

[Bert Kreischer]

You genuinely believe people change? That they don't just die stubborn.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, hold on a second. This is the research. This isn't my theory. If you look at all the research from Dr. Tara Swart over at King's College London, who studies the science of influence, it's incredible. I'll give you an ex. Like, you have to think it's your idea. Have you ever noticed that when you stop hounding somebody, all of a sudden, next thing you know, they're going to the gym and they're doing. They're working on their resume, and they're getting a different job because you've given them the space of feeling accepted as they are. So all the pressure from you is gone, and now they have to deal with the pressure of themselves.

[Bert Kreischer]

Mel, we only have 30 minutes left, but I'm only halfway through. What should we do?

[Mel Robbins]

Whatever you want. Let them. This is your show.

[Bert Kreischer]

So we can cook.

[Mel Robbins]

You can do whatever you want. What does cook mean?

[Bert Kreischer]

We can go a little bit longer. We can get.

[Mel Robbins]

I don't care what we do. Keep going.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, great. Okay, great. Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

I don't know what. Like, I'm just in this with you, and so. But so let me get to the other part, because this is really. I'm going to show you what you have to do. You have to A, ask open ended questions and apologize. B, back the hell off and let them. Let them. Because you've stirred this friction and if there's now no judgment.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

The person doesn't have anything to push against except for themselves. And because we know that every human being has to get to a point where, where they're at is more painful than just doing the thing, throwing out the VHS thing, asking for a little bit of help, taking the insulin. And see if you is, is literally model the change you want to see. Yes, just model it. If you want your dad to take good care of himself, just model taking good care of you if you see him doing anything. Hey dad, I notice you're wearing your monitor. That's pretty cool. Like, how's that going?

[Bert Kreischer]

Right? Positive encouragement.

[Mel Robbins]

Positive encouragement. And I'll give you an example of why this works. And this is all from all this research around how human beings change. A, they only change when they're ready to change for themselves. B, they have to get annoyed with themselves enough and to think it's their idea. And the only way that's gonna happen is if you create this acceptance. See, people think, let them's about cutting people out. Let them actually brings you closer to people you care about because you're forcing yourself to love people as they are instead of judging them. And so it takes usually three to six months of backing off and just being positive and asking open ended questions and congratulating small things. Not like, oh, see, you went for the run. No, just like, hey, cool, you know, dad, you look great. You know how you're doing. Here's the example. Let's say that you and I are working in the same office.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

And we're, you know, laptops and pounding away. And every day at lunch you get up, close your laptop, you go out for a walk.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay?

[Mel Robbins]

That's it. I watch you do this day in and day out. And when you come back, hey, Mel, you look refreshed, you have a smile on your face. Maybe once or twice you ask me, I'm like, oh, I can't, I can't. About a month will go by and all of a sudden look up one day and I'll look out the window and I'll be like, you know, so nice. I think I'm gonna go for a walk. Now here's the interesting part. I don't credit you. I think it was my idea. Right, but it was your influence without judgment or Pressure that actually created the conditions.

[Bert Kreischer]

Got it.

[Mel Robbins]

For me to feel drawn to do that thing. Because you may. This is marketing, by the way.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, but this is gonna, you know what this is requiring is a long lead, which is requiring a lot of patience.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. Well, the time's gonna pass regardless. Regardless. And so you get to choose whether you're gonna keep doing what you're doing, which isn't working and it's stressing you out, or you're gonna look at the fundamental principles that we're talking about that we all know are true. And that's the other reason why the let them theory is spread is because I'm just reminding you of what you know to be true. And I'm giving you a tool to use, especially in those moments where you're stressed out or pissed off or frustrated or sad. Like I feel that too. And the thing that's also very difficult when our parents get older is they become more of who they are. And what they need is more acceptance rather than judgment. Because I don't think anybody gets older and knows that you're in the last chapter of your life and they're all excited about it. There's a lot of fear there and a lot of things that people don't talk about.

[Bert Kreischer]

Right.

[Mel Robbins]

And it expresses itself in kind of ways that people don't realize. And I think the more that you can let them have the dignity of their experience and love them through it and create the conditions based on the research not mine, the research of these world renowned experts that are all cited in this book. And you use the approaches that work based on research versus allowing your very valid emotions to dictate it, in the moment, you will be more effective and loving in your relationships.

[Bert Kreischer]

Can I just say this, Mel? I think that research in regards to humanity's desire to change and a human being's desire to change, I think that's in reference to women. I think every heterosexual dad probably goes on his dying deathbed, the last thought that he has was, I was fucking right.

[Mel Robbins]

No, not true. That's not true.

[Bert Kreischer]

I think so.

[Mel Robbins]

I don't think that's true. I think the research on this is very clear. Whether you look at Dr. Carl Pillemer at Cornell who has done the Legacy project, which all he does is talk to 80 and 90 year olds, or you look at the Harvard Study of Adult Development, the largest longitudinal study. Dr. Robert Waldinger at Harvard is the fourth director of that study now. Yeah, it's all the same thing. When people get to the end of their life. You want to be surrounded by people that love you and that you love, and you want to look back. And most people don't want to look back and be like, I made a billion dollars. They want to look back and say, I was a good friend. I was a good boss. I used the time that I had in a way that made me proud of myself. I allowed myself to be myself. Sure, that's what you want. You know, there's an interesting guy that you should talk to named Dr. Todd Rose that I just interviewed for my podcast. He was a professor at the Harvard School of Education, and now he runs the largest. He has the largest private data set on what people actually want out of life and how they define success. And it's a nonpartisan think tank that he runs. And so there's this very interesting thing that I think is important to talk about, which is especially in the world today. He, for example, has asked people in this study to privately define what success means by taking 60 different things that you could say. Success is sure. And you have to rank them in order so you don't have to go, it's this or that. You have to go, oh, the top, all the way, one to 60. And out of however many hundreds of thousands of people, all different races and ages and political affiliations and religions, of the top 10 things that people say would make for a successful life when they fill this out privately, eight of them are exactly the same. And the overwhelming majority of people, when they privately say, what does success mean to me? They say, spending my life doing something that is meaningful to me, that makes a difference with other people. Now, here's where it gets interesting. When you ask the same person to now take the same list of 60 factors and say, okay, now I want you to rank what you think other people think success means. We go money and fame and all this other stuff. And so we live under this illusion that other people want something different than what you want for your family and for yourself. Now, we may disagree policy wise on how to get there, but I choose to believe that your dad wants the same things you want, that your mom wants the same things that you want, that your partner does, that your friends do. And yet we live under this delusion that people are somehow fundamentally different than you are. And that's why we judge.

[Bert Kreischer]

Well, this episode's coming out during the holiday season. Thanksgiving is the time where everyone needs Mel Robbins guidance. Okay, okay, Help me navigate this Thanksgiving Day rabbit hole. I'll give you the situation, and then help me direct Emotional traffic.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Because I basically asked all of the people here at the office, hey, what's gonna happen during Thanksgiving? And we combined kind of what everyone is going through.

[Mel Robbins]

Awesome.

[Bert Kreischer]

This is the Thanksgiving dinner stress test. Wrath Thanksgiving dinner time table.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Dad is at the head of the table. Dad loves Donald Trump. The President has inevitably done something crazy that day, that week, dare I say that hour. And he's popping off on Truth Social and dad is loving it. Simultaneously, your brother is coming out. You are accepting of your brother because it is your brother and we're blood and it is so deep. And I love you for who you are. But dad believes God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. And you're like, dad, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Bert Kreischer]

Simultaneously, your dad wants something from you. He just recently remarried a 21 year old Hungarian woman.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

And he wants you to accept your Hungarian stepmom. You can't do that because you're twice her age. Okay, but before we start dinner, he wants to hold a moment of silence for Charlie Kirk. You then look over to your sister who wants to talk, but she hasn't taken her meds in three months and she wants to talk about gut health. Help me navigate emotional traffic here.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, well, the first thing you should ask yourself is, what do you actually value and why?

[Bert Kreischer]

I mean, the first thing is I'm asking myself, how did I get here and why do I value these lunatics?

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, well, that's an important consideration because it's very important that you understand who you are.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

What you value and why. And for a lot of us, even though we are related to people that are very challenging, whether it's their opinions or whether it's their behavior or whether it's the person that they're with, we still value family. And we still see the value in trying to maintain a relationship with our family. I am a person like that. I really, for me personally, I value having relationships with my family. And look, I think everybody has challenging members in their family. Oftentimes I feel like the reason why we have families is it teaches you how to love people you hate sometimes. And so the question becomes, are you going? Because you feel the next book.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's the next book.

[Mel Robbins]

What do you mean?

[Bert Kreischer]

How to deal with Family. You gotta love people you hate.

[Mel Robbins]

You do.

[Bert Kreischer]

What a brilliant title.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, you do. And so here's the thing I want you to understand. Why are you going?

[Bert Kreischer]

I love them.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, but see, this gets back to the original joke. What? You love Satan, you love that. See, two things can be true at once.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

You can love somebody and think they're a fucking moron.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh my God.

[Mel Robbins]

You can love somebody and be diabolically opposed to the fact that they have been spoon fed all of these lies and crap from the 5% over here and the 5% over here that are screaming at each other. I feel like we live in a moment in society where our politics and our media are like abusive parents screaming at each other and we're all like the kids under the covers upstairs. Like, just make it stop.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Mel Robbins]

And so, first of all, you're going because you recognize that these people have always been like this. They've always been in your life. They've always had opinions that have been offensive. And the only way that you are going to ever actually get through to your dad or be able to have a conversation is to practice having it and that even though you disagree with him, that there are certain times where it's important to you to be together.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

You get to decide whether you're driving their bracing.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

For me, I don't do that anymore. You want to know why? Because I say let them. I know what's going to happen, so why am I bracing?

[Bert Kreischer]

So a lot of people will be listening to this on Thanksgiving weekend. And for sure, for sure. Many siblings have decided to go to the fork in the road. Some siblings go, I am not coming home for Thanksgiving. And the other sibling is saying, I will go home and I will have a friendly conversation with my 21 year old stepmother. Svetlana.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. Why are you doing that? See, if you're doing it for them, you're going to resent them. If you're doing it for you because it matters to you, that's you holding onto the power. And I don't want you to walk in and ever think they're changing because people only change when they're ready to change for themselves. I want you to walk in expecting it to be a freak show because then you're not going to be bothered by it. And I want you to remind yourself, you can leave the table anytime you want. You can change the topic anytime you want. You can say, hey, dad, you know, we disagree on that. How about we talk about something else? I'd really rather not hear about that. You know, I came all this way not making him wrong, like we're gonna disagree on things. Or you can also say, you know what? I think it's time that I lean in and I start to understand my dad's frame of reference. Because us Distancing ourselves from one another, even when people are offensive. Us shutting off conversation because we disagree with somebody's opinion, even if it's disgusting and discriminatory. When you think about the psychology of influence, I want you to picture people in your life and their brain. Your dad's brain, if that's the profile, just imagine his brain is full of red liquid. Oh, let's just use it, okay?

[Bert Kreischer]

I don't know what it's full of. It's full, it's sluts, whatever, WhatsApp news articles.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay? It's just like all in. And keep in mind, your dad doesn't know that a quarter of the accounts online are bots. Your dad doesn't understand the implications of Citizens United and how it has eroded our democracy and the spread of misinformation. Your dad is just being fed all of this and he's taking it in.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sure.

[Mel Robbins]

And the more you judge, the more he defends. The only way that you actually get somebody to change their mind is when they think they're changing it for themselves. And the only way somebody is open and this is very challenging to do is if you want to go into the kind of psychological combat around this.

[Bert Kreischer]

Let's scrap at the dinner table, okay?

[Mel Robbins]

Here. No, no, no, no, you're not going to. Because here's what you have to do first. If you imagine somebody's brain, whether it's blue or purple or red or what, filled with their ideas, if it's already full, they have no capacity for new ideas. They have to pour it out first. They have to have a conversation with you. And we're so busy judging each other that we don't do the thing that's harder, which is to come from this notion of frame of reference. What is your frame of. Why do you believe that dead? What is it about what he's doing? And why do you feel that way about immigration? What is it? And you don't do it. Well, that's wrong. Interesting. Could you explain more about that? Interesting. You know, what's happening is you're like, let them, let them, let them, let them. Let. Oh, my God. He's really scary. Why the fuck does he think he's like, literally mind control? I don't even know who this. You're thinking all this. You're like, let them, let them, let them. I want you to imagine all of that's getting poured out. Which. What creates capacity to Let me. Correct.

[Bert Kreischer]

Infiltrate.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, it's not even infiltrate. It's that I agree with this feeling that you have And I think we just kind of disagree about the way to solve that issue.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's, you know.

[Mel Robbins]

Do you see what I'm saying?

[Bert Kreischer]

I totally see what you're saying.

[Mel Robbins]

Do that with our own family members. We will never be able to do this as a society.

[Bert Kreischer]

We're running out of time. So I want to get to things quickly through a game that we called Life Coach Lightning Round. I'm going to ask you a series of very intense questions that are very serious, but you're going to give me life coach advice very quickly.

[Mel Robbins]

Done.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay, here we go. How do I stop overthinking?

[Mel Robbins]

Take the action. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Do it.

[Bert Kreischer]

How do I stop doom scrolling?

[Mel Robbins]

Put your fucking phone down.

[Bert Kreischer]

What's one habit I should start today?

[Mel Robbins]

You should not sleep with your phone.

[Bert Kreischer]

What's a bad piece of advice that too many people follow?

[Mel Robbins]

Calm down.

[Bert Kreischer]

If you got the chance to put up a billboard that millions of people would see, what would you write on it?

[Mel Robbins]

Let them.

[Bert Kreischer]

Mine would be watch Mission Impossible. Ghost Protocol. It's a great fucking movie.

[Mel Robbins]

Was that three?

[Bert Kreischer]

No, no, no. Okay, that was number four.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay. Because I like the dress that Rebecca wore in number three, the yellow one.

[Bert Kreischer]

That was a great dress. Yeah, yeah. With the purple sash. Yeah, that was great. But Ghost Protocol is the Burj Khalifa one where he has the hood and he's.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good one.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. Everyone should see it. And if you've already seen it, watch it again. It holds up on multiple viewings.

[Mel Robbins]

Agreed.

[Bert Kreischer]

Can you forgive someone and still be angry?

[Mel Robbins]

No. Because forgiving somebody requires you to stop wishing things were different.

[Bert Kreischer]

What do you mean?

[Mel Robbins]

You can't forgive someone if you're still holding on to that bargaining that you do. If only in order to truly forgive. You have to stop wishing things were different and accept them as they are. And I wouldn't recommend that you hold on to anger. I would recommend that you hold on to the boundary. Because, you know, people make mistakes. And if people learn from their mistakes and they take responsibility for them, then they're showing you that they're changing. But if somebody apologizes for something and you forgive them by basically saying, okay, I'm gonna stop wishing things were different and I'm going to give you my trust again. If they don't learn from the mistake, then you can still, you know, forgive them. But you take your trust back and you say, okay, I'm gonna let you make the mistake again. But the second time you do it, it's not a mistake. It's a pattern.

[Bert Kreischer]

Got it. How do I know if I need professional help or just a nap?

[Mel Robbins]

You need professional help.

[Bert Kreischer]

Great. This is big for a lot of our young listeners. When is it okay to quit? Or even adults?

[Mel Robbins]

That's a great question.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. When is it okay to quit?

[Mel Robbins]

I think you have to choose. The life is always going to be hard and life is always gonna be unfair. And you have to decide what kind of hard in life do you want? Because continuing and not quitting is hard. Continuing to believe in yourself and work on something and know that, okay, if I'm gonna have to stick with this for 10 years, it's gonna be really hard. But I personally think it is harder to give up on something and then to live with the regret knowing that you quit. And I think you can ask yourself, am I willing to continue doing this for 10 years or have I learned what I needed to learn and I'm no longer willing to put in the work? If you're no longer willing to put in the work, quit. If you're no longer excited by why you're doing something, learn and pivot. That's it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Am I going to be okay?

[Mel Robbins]

I think you already are.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay. I don't feel that way. Mel, this was fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the show.

[Mel Robbins]

Thank you. And I want to tell Satan, I love you and I believe in you.

[Bert Kreischer]

Nicely done. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like Halle Berry on how to be a good partner during menopause or Mehdi Husson on the dumbing down of media clips you won't hear anywhere else. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.

[Mel Robbins]

Com.

[Bert Kreischer]

Don't miss out.