Oz the Mentalist Breaks Hasan’s Brain

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Oz the Mentalist Breaks Hasan’s Brain

Podcast: Hasan Minhaj Doesn’t Know
Host: Hasan Minhaj (186k Films)
Guest: Oz Pearlman (“Oz the Mentalist”)
Date: April 15, 2026

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Overview

This episode features the acclaimed mentalist and magician Oz Pearlman, who sits down with comedian Hasan Minhaj shortly before hosting the White House Correspondents’ Dinner—where Donald Trump is expected to appear. The main theme centers on the craft of mentalism: its relationship to magic, the psychology behind it, its applications in daily life, and the profound effects it can have on audiences. Hasan gets his mind (and emotions) thoroughly scrambled by Oz’s mind-reading feats, all while exploring how the art of deception, performance, and memory applies far beyond the stage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Oz Pearlman’s Magic and Mentalism Career

• Oz’s Early Days: Got his start doing magic as a Michigan college student, making instructional DVDs before streaming existed ([04:08]).
• The Network Effect in Magic: Early career built magic “clout”—but only among magicians, which Oz describes humorously as “clout with teenage guys. Not what you’re looking for.” ([04:19])
• Key Product: His "Born to Perform Card Magic" DVD was foundational for a generation of magicians ([06:12]).

2. Magic, Mentalism, and the Teenage Boy Psyche

• Why Teen Boys: Both Hasan and Oz discuss why magic/mentalism attracts self-conscious teens—it's dopamine for affirmation, a way to cope with family trauma, and a tool for attention ([07:04]):

  “How do I appeal to girls?...Have her pick a card...dopamine...” —Oz ([07:08]) “I think this allowed me to get lost. This was my way...of constantly avoiding talking about stuff that was heavy.” —Oz ([07:08])

3. The Mechanics and Psychology of Mentalism

• Mentalism Explained:

  • Magic of the mind; almost always rooted in “learnable, repeatable skill...science” not the supernatural ([12:13]).
  • “My job is crafting memories...Knowing how to get inside your mind and know where to make the edit points.” —Oz ([09:44])
  • Mentalism as “reverse engineering of the mind,” designing the trick around what he wants the audience to remember ([14:09])
  • Mind control? “A form of mind control because I am the dominant person in every relationship (on stage).” ([14:40])

• Memory and Mis/Direction:

  • The success of a trick lies in managing what people remember, editing their experience in real-time ([09:03]).
  • Insight for comedians: “The beginning and the ending are more important than the middle...How you leave. If your last joke sucks, the special sucked.” ([09:30])

4. Comparing Magic, Mentalism, and Comedy

• Interactive Performance:

  • Oz asserts mentalism is “cheating” compared to standup, as it’s far more interactive and leaves less chance for the audience to dislike it ([17:02]).
  • “Comedy is subjective...there’s at least 25% of the audience that doesn’t necessarily like your comedy. Magic—everyone likes that feeling.” ([17:29])

• Dealing with Skeptics and Egos:

  • With “sociopaths”/alpha types: “I let them see behind the curtain...but only showed them step A; B, C, D are in the back pocket.” ([15:31])

5. Mentalism in the Real World

• Influence on Powerful People:

  • Discusses mentalism as a sort of “mental bank heist”—not everyone can pull it off ([11:41]).
  • Tips for the White House Correspondents’ Dinner (Trump’s first since 2011): “Me against you is not a fair match...what you do is cheating.” ([17:02])

• Everyday Applications:

  • How to get kids to eat veggies: use misdirection and agency—let them choose between options rather than giving orders ([23:18]).
  • In interviews: “My resume said ‘professional magician’...that’s up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, in Contra.” ([24:04])
  • Confidence: The importance of entering a room and “immediately approach[ing] the person you want to talk to” ([31:05])

6. Self-Esteem, Performance, and Validation

• Insecurity and Esteem:
  • “A lot of performers have a mix where we’re insecure but we have very high self-esteem.” —Oz ([31:08])
  • Hasan: “I have high self-esteem...and zero self-worth. Those two things are constantly having a tug of war.” ([31:41])
  • Contrasting with Elon Musk: “Elon Musk has all café; there’s no leche. He is fully believing every tweet.” —Hasan ([32:07])

7. Reading Body Language

• Body Language Exercises:
  • Hasan demonstrates postures; Oz explains their meaning:
    • Manspreading—“I don’t give a crap about anybody around me.” ([33:29])
    • Arms behind head—“Conveyor of extreme confidence or extreme disinterest.” ([33:47])
    • Arms crossed—“Skeptical and on guard. Closed off.” ([34:35])
    • Fake smile—“Pretending I like you but actually hate you.” ([34:54])
  • Open palms: triggers trust (“I trust you already.” —Oz ([35:16]))

8. The Big “Freak Show” Rant

• Hasan’s AGT Beef:
  • Hasan argues there should be a separate “America’s Got Freaks,” since variety performers like magicians/mentalists are shoehorned between singers on AGT ([37:32]).

9. Oz’s Signature Mind Reading Feats

• Live Mind Reading:
  • Oz astounds Hasan on air by deducing he’s thinking about a high school friend (“Pernell Davis”) using only subtle cues ([42:04]-[44:28]).
  • Repeats similar feat with show producer Tyler, naming “Aaron Hodges” ([49:01]-[49:51]).
  • Correctly deduces a third participant’s (Annie) friend’s birthday and name (“Windham”) using only indirect questioning and analysis ([50:18]-[53:20]).
  • Each trick is performed with on-air verification, with Hasan and others left “fried.”

    “This is like the craziest…I don’t even know anyone on planet Earth with the name Pernell.” —Hasan ([44:23])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

The Artistry of Mentalism

• “My job is crafting memories...knowing how to get inside your mind and know where to make the edit points…That’s by design.” —Oz Pearlman ([09:44])

• “Reverse engineering of the mind...I attack a problem from the end backwards.” —Oz ([14:12])

Validation, Performance, and Self-Doubt

• “A lot of performers have a mix where we’re insecure but we have very high self-esteem.” —Oz ([31:08])

• “If audiences think we suck, we suck...You could say you’re the best person ever. If the audience disagrees, they’re right. You’re wrong.” —Oz ([32:49])

Magic as Life Skill

• “Everybody should have two or three magic tricks in life...it’s an instant way to connect with other people.” —Oz ([29:21])

Standout Mind-Reading Moments

• “What’s his name?”
  “Purnell Davis.”
  —Hasan, after Oz’s shocking feat ([44:21])

• “Aaron Hodges.”
  —Tyler, another successful guess ([49:40])

Comedy & Magic Crossover

• “What you do is cheating...I open before you, it’s rough for you...I use the audience in the show.” —Oz ([17:02])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Oz’s Origin Story, Magic DVDs & Card Tricks: [03:16] – [06:49]
• Psyche of Magic in Adolescent Boys: [06:49] – [08:09]
• Mentalism Mechanics & Memory Editing: [09:02] – [10:31]
• Mind Control & Audience Power Dynamics: [14:42] – [16:00]
• White House Correspondents’ Dinner & Trump Strategy: [16:17] – [21:39]
• Applying Mind Reading to Parenting & Interviews: [22:24] – [25:20]
• Magic as Social/Professional Tool: [29:15] – [31:05]
• Body Language Parlor Game: [33:09] – [35:59]
• America’s Got Talent / Freak Show Rant: [37:13] – [38:25]
• The Purnell Davis Reveal: [42:04] – [44:23]
• Tyler’s Mind Reading Segment: [46:52] – [49:51]
• Bonus Mind Reading with Annie/Windham: [50:18] – [53:20]

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Tone & Style

The tone is electric, playful, and honest—Hasan’s comic skepticism often giving way to genuine awe as Oz deploys his craft. Both men riff on their own insecurities, the perils of performance, and the curious overlap between showmanship, psychology, and human connection. The episode is as much “mindgames and amazement” as it is “therapy and vulnerability.”

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Conclusion

By episode’s end, Hasan’s brain—and emotions—are entirely “broken” by Oz Pearlman’s abilities, and listeners are left with both practical insight into the psychology of mentalism and a firsthand sense of why audiences remain transfixed by the art. Whether you’re a performer, parent, or just fascinated by the intersection of perception and reality, this episode stands out as a crash course in both deception and human nature.

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Transcript

[Hasan Minhaj]

Lemonade. Harvey Weinstein is complaining about Rikers. That's right. The supervillain of the MeToo movement is upset because he got punched in the face by a fellow inmate. And Harvey is correct. Hitting is wrong. Even in prison. It is awful to be touched without consent. Anyways, I read about this story on Ground News, which is Today's sponsor and HMDK's favorite independent news platform. Ground News shows a breakdown of publications reporting on a story in in which way they lean politically, whether it's right, left, or center. Now, it's not about eliminating bias. We all have biases. But Ground News helps you be a more conscientious consumer of the pageant of pain unfolding around us. Now, you may think, yeah, duh, CNN is slightly left, Fox is right. Why do I need this? Well, not everything is about America, folks. Ground News sources, articles from all over the world. For example, There are currently 97 articles talking about Weinstein and Rikers. And a lot of the publications are international. Now, I know the Globo in Brazil leans right and Le Monde in France leans left. And I'm keeping that in mind when I read their coverage. So go to groundnews.com husan to subscribe and get 40% off the unlimited access vantage plan, which breaks down to just five bucks a month with my discount. Stay aware and go to groundnews.com hasan today I'm open and down for everything. What the is long is it is not involving anything that is satanic.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's a witch. That is Wiccan cultish. Or ghosts. I respect ghosts.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But I do not with the undead,

[Oz Pearlman]

so I'm fine with that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, got it.

[Oz Pearlman]

You know, I watch the hard hitting questions you ask like Alex Honnold when he takes dumps. And I. I need that same level of question for me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, good.

[Oz Pearlman]

Where do I take dumps during mentalism shows? I'm not allowed to tell you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Mentalist Oz Perlman has been blowing minds across the country for years. And by the end of this interview, I was convinced I was talking to a wizard. I have no idea, none, how he got in my head and learned what he did. How are you doing this emotional pap smear on me now? If you haven't heard of Oz yet, you will soon because he's about to tackle his toughest challenge yet. He is getting inside the clenched fist of fire ants that is the brain of Donald Trump. Oze is hosting this year's White House Correspondents dinner, which Trump is attending for the first time since Seth Meyers publicly humiliated him in 2011 and possibly set off a chain of events that end civilization. So, as a former White House correspondence dinner host, I gave O some tips on how to handle the gig. You're dealing with C SPAN camera operators, so. These people are geriatric.

[Oz Pearlman]

I know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I tried to get him to tell me the secret behind David Copperfield's greatest trick.

[Oz Pearlman]

He's not actually flying.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Fine. He's floating. And, yes, he read my mind. What the. Oh, my God. But you know what? I have a little trick of my own. I can disappear. Ladies and gentlemen, it's O. Pearlman.

[Oz Pearlman]

Thank you. Big fan. I'm a big fan.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I told you that we had our meet Cute. We met at the ESPYs.

[Oz Pearlman]

We did. Backstage. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Years ago.

[Oz Pearlman]

I stalked you down. I saw you, and I'm like, I know. I've watched all the specials.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That was really cool of you, dude.

[Oz Pearlman]

I am a comedy aficionado. Like, truly. I am just somebody who couldn't hack it as a comedian. And I found this other lane that's very lucrative.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Did you do stand up?

[Oz Pearlman]

I never did stand up, but there's a lot of stand up in my act.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Totally.

[Oz Pearlman]

You'd be shocked that I'm probably more funny than I am amazing in my show. That's what people say to me, and it's the biggest compliment ever.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have been grinding it out doing this for a very long time. One of my favorite top highlighted comments in your 60 minutes interview is, I went to high school with those.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And he's been doing these types of magic tricks since we were in high school. I'm so glad to see he's doing well.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah, that's true. I wonder who that was. I should know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You should know. I think I thought you would know.

[Oz Pearlman]

I probably do know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. You started out teaching magic and releasing DVDs that taught people.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yo. Shout out to Tyler.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Shout out to Tyler.

[Oz Pearlman]

We have a fan in the house who's like, I bought your videos. So I have. I have a very weird form of fame that was called magic Fame.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Oz Pearlman]

I was famous amongst other magicians. It's not a real fame. There's not. It's not clout. It's like, clout with teenage guys. Not what you're looking for. But I started. How much of a story do you want? I can give a tldr. I went to University of Michigan.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do the whole thing, Go blue.

[Oz Pearlman]

And I was always working magic tricks on the side. I worked at a restaurant on campus. Everybody knew me. I was like, the Magician in Ann Arbor, Michigan. They opened a magic store. And this is dating myself in the early 2000s. There was no streaming video yet. Netflix sent you DVDs in red envelopes. I got it for the Gen Zs. I got to set the tone here. This is dial up modems. This is how you and I lived. Sure. So, so these two guys, Ajar and Maxwell, buddies of mine, they started this company in an apartment on campus. And I went to their place. Cause somebody told me there's a magic store. And I'm like, there's no way there's a magic store in this town that I don't know about. That's impossible. It's like my territory. Right. So I went there. They're making videos that are really short to watch and show you perform a trick. Because the way you would buy magic tricks, magicians don't sell their soul to the undead or devils. They pay money. It's economy, baby. They buy tricks and you go to a store, usually brick and mortar, and you watch the trick performed. You go, oh my God, how much that cost? 50 bucks. 50 bucks. Guy takes you another room, teaches you where no one sees how to do the trick. Then you go home and practice a bunch. That's the way it's been handed down. Books and videos as well. I'm breaking, you know, the fourth wall here.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Oz Pearlman]

So these guys changed the game because Internet was getting fast enough they could put videos up online. So they saw me do my stuff and like, dude, this guy's good.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

And I started doing their demo videos. Their growth was a hockey stick. Just every month was double, double, double. So it's like insane growth. They moved to Vegas. I started going out to Vegas for like two day trips. And all you do is just go on the strip and do magic tricks till 3, 4, 5 in the morning. Like all nighters with drunk people. You can still see these videos?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Oz Pearlman]

So what Tyler saw was these videos that I would do. Demo videos.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

And then I put out a video called Born to Perform Card Magic. Born to Perform Card Magic is the equivalent of Britney Spears first album for magicians. If you meet anyone age, we could timestamp it, but like 30 to 48.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Who is a magician who did card tricks? 100%. They have this video. So every magician in the world knew who I was at that time.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

I got paid the princely sum of $1,000 for that video. I'm not hating. It blew me up. It's like the record deals. You get early days. The way the backstreet Boys got screwed by Lou Perlman. Not the same Perlman, but that happened. But that blew me up. So I traveled the world teaching magic.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is it about mentalism? Magic in teenage boys.

[Oz Pearlman]

Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That is such apt fodder and territory. Why does it mean so much to hormonal teenage men?

[Oz Pearlman]

So, one, I'm a nerdy loser at age 13.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Don't say that.

[Oz Pearlman]

I was. You got to see pictures. You got to see pictures.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Don't say that.

[Oz Pearlman]

Two, how do I appeal to girls? Oof. Wow. Do I go up there with strong game? Not really at that point in my life. Okay, but do I go up there, have her pick a card? Card jumps to the top, card changes color. Card appears in my shoe. Oh, my God, you're amazing. Ding, ding, ding. Dopamine. There's definitely something there with teenagers and why dudes are not getting into magic in their 20s. I think that's true. The second is you want to get Freudian with it. For a lot of the magicians I know the same as comedians. They use it to feel pain. So my folks got divorced right around that age, and it was a really bad divorce. It was not like a amicable at all. Hated each other. Kids were wet, like, really bad. So I think this allowed me to get lost. This was my way of, one, cheering up my family. Oh, look at me. And, like, constantly avoiding talking about stuff that was heavy. You know, that avoidance. Just what else are you going to do? And second, I have an obsessive personality, like, very obsessive, where if I do something, I don't get into it. 80 or 90%. It's all I do, all I think about all the time.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It became your life.

[Oz Pearlman]

It was my life.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. Tyler taught me a trick, and I'm going to do it on you. And I want everyone watching this and here in this studio to participate. Oz.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I want you to think of a number between one and ten.

[Oz Pearlman]

I have it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. Double it.

[Oz Pearlman]

Done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Add eight.

[Oz Pearlman]

Done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Divided by two.

[Oz Pearlman]

Done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Subtract the original number that I asked you to pick at the beginning.

[Oz Pearlman]

Done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Is your number.

[Oz Pearlman]

Heavy? It's four. Bring it in. We need to bring you to the next level on that trick.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So Ty told me how that works.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's basically a math trick.

[Oz Pearlman]

It's a math trick.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

Trick like that needs time, misdirection. So what you want to do is you want to distance the method from the reveal. So if you had done that trick and said, remember that number, we're going to come back to it later. Then I would have had less time to remember the methodology. And later on, you said, remember that you had a number and you could muddy the waters of how the number was selected. Remember earlier, you thought of a number. You. You did all this. Addition, subtraction. You made up anything you wanted. You chose where you would go. Look at me. Think of that number. Now. See, memory is malleable.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

The same way that a good comedy. When you do a great special, the beginning and the ending are more important than the middle. The structure. It has to be, because that's what people remember the most. How you leave. Let's say you kill it. Kill it, kill it. And your last joke sucks. Special sucked.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Totally.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah. So mentalism is the same thing. It's a structured act where people remember what I want them to remember. My job is crafting memories. And I don't. People think I mean that in a very wishy washy, like, new age way. I'm being 100% serious. I have spent years learning how to get inside your mind and know where to make the edit points. I edit the video. That's the story you tell about my show later. That's my skill. That's what differentiates me from the other people that do what I do more effectively. Knowing how to get inside your head in that way and. And know what you will say to the next person about me. That's not by chance. That's by design.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why are you doing this? Why are you giving away the magic?

[Oz Pearlman]

Because I think that that is something you can do in your whole life. It's a skill. Even if I quit mentalism today, if I quit mentalism, that same skill would apply to everything I do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Is this a level of confidence that you have where you're basically telling your haters and losers, quite frankly, to be like, hey, you can watch me right now. You won't be able to do what I'm doing.

[Oz Pearlman]

Oh, yeah, that's. That's 100% true. Yeah, but I'm not. Some people will, and I'm not opposed to it. But as of this point, I think that most people haven't viewed it the same way as I have. Like, it's the Mr. Miyagi version. Like, right now, you're just seeing the wax on, wax off. That's the work that went into thinking bigger. Right. Like, the comedians that have changed the game, in my opinion, are ones whose specials tackle tough topics and they create something funny around it. Like, anyone could just do a hacky TSA joke. Right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Oz Pearlman]

But how do you Do a joke about. I mean, I don't want to. Like Andrew Scholz recently, Life, that was an incredible special. Yeah, it's great. And you've experienced that, like, ivf, like things that are really awful situations for most people.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

How do you take something horrible and make it funny? That's your gift. Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And we're finding a new. A new way to look at it.

[Oz Pearlman]

A new way to look at it, but a way to look at it through the lens of funny. Because funny takes the edge off of things in life. There's nothing that can't be written a joke about. I don't care what it is. That's. That is it oxymoron. People say you can't joke about that. Yeah, you can. You. You could joke about anything.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Oz Pearlman]

It's just a matter of what's funny.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're essentially pulling off, like a mental bank heist.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Everybody can't get away with the bank heist. The key is, how do you get away with it? How do you. How do you get in and out of the premise, Ocean's Eleven style? And there are some people that are tactical assassins that can complete the said mission and then, yeah, everybody can't do it. Some novices are going to get, you know, smoked out midway through the premise, or they're not going to be able to pull off the heist. But that's the, that's the joy of it.

[Oz Pearlman]

What story they tell matters far more than what I actually do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So what is the difference between magic and mentalism?

[Oz Pearlman]

You get paid more. That's a joke. But that's actually true. No. So mentalism is magic of the mind. So it's a form of magic. If you are a plastic surgeon, you had to first be a doctor.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

There's very, very few mentalists who didn't start out as magicians. It's pre med. Before you go to medical school, before you become a plastic surgeon.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, don't. Please don't remind me. I. I did it and I didn't pass. Don't, don't. Let's not do.

[Oz Pearlman]

This is like how I described me as the plastic surgeon. My profession when I quit my job to my Jewish mother, she's like, you're leaving Wall Street o to go be what, a magician?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

As many references to doctors as possible. So mentalist is not supernatural or psychic. I do not claim to have supernatural or psychic powers. It's very important. I say that all the time because people believe that no matter what I say. And it's not Meant to be unethical or disingenuous. Everything I'm doing is a learnable, repeatable skill rooted in science. There's an explanation very important. Psychics can't do repeatable. Tell me my. You can't. They can't just do stuff at a mo. And they can't teach you how to be a psychic. I could teach you to be a mentalist and do the trick 10 times. It would work every time within. Within boundaries. But what I'm telling you and what I'm presenting is an illusion. So if the way that you interpret the way I did it, you is based on body language or based on tells, or based on the fact that I moved you in a certain direction. I don't necessarily tell you how I'm doing the trick. I lead you in directions that I wanna lead you. Yes, some of which are true, some of which are false, but they're almost always rooted in honesty. Everything I'm doing is almost always actually the way I'm doing it. But different levels. Like it might be 20% body language here, 30% influence, 40%. I influenced your choice through a different way. Some of them will be 80% one and 20% the other. But you in your mind will think a different way because I'm guiding you. I'm trying to like, kind of like cheese with the mouse. I'm that cheese at the end of the puzzle and I'm moving you around in that way. So you always deflecting from the real method.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You've called it, quote, reverse engineering of the mind.

[Oz Pearlman]

That's 100% the truth. I went to school for engineering, and I think my engineering training has been absolutely pivotal in what I do because I attack a problem from the end backwards. So I decide what do I want people to remember and talk about at the end of this trick? What's going to be the thing everyone says at the end? What's the memory? And then I go back to the beginning, create the premise, and then fill in the blanks in between. I have tools that I just have this tool, this tool, this tool to know how to do the trick.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So is it basically mind control?

[Oz Pearlman]

It's a form of mind control because I am the dominant person in every relationship. As soon as our power dynamic starts that I'm performing, I take charge. If I don't take charge and I'm not in charge, then inherently my job becomes difficult or I become very submissive. Allow you to think you're in charge, which is just the same way a heckler gets Diffused is you give them their moment. Hecklers just want attention. Almost always give them the attention, guide them in that direction, and then overwhelm. So at a certain point, I'll feel like you're in on it. Certain people that I've worked with, they're skeptical. They're alpha. They're some of the wealthiest, most successful people in the world. Sure. They're not used to being told what to do. They tell others what to do. So I have to create a premise where they feel like they're in charge, but all of the things they're asking me to do are within the box of what I wanted.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's the premise that you use with sociopaths like that?

[Oz Pearlman]

So I stroke their ego, right? I tell them how they're so great. I let them see behind the curtain. I go, I know you're smart. You know how this trick works? Let me show you this one works. And then they know and they're, oh, but I only showed them step A, B, C and D are still in the back pocket. Right. The big guns are waiting. Right. So they feel like they've been let in, that we're now buds. Right. And so that's what you do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you have a desired outcome, A desired emotion where you're like, I need to turn this no into a yes or I want this to be the final outcome. Got it? Is that true?

[Oz Pearlman]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have this incredible talent. You can turn turn no's into yeses. Let me just. I'll just say it right now. Oh, why are you wasting this incredible talent on noobs like me? Why aren't you sitting down with the most powerful people on planet Earth, like the UN Security Council or diplomats or world leaders and going like, let me.

[Oz Pearlman]

We're about to, my friend. You and I are joining the same club. You are already an esteemed White House corpse. Did I jump, like, six things ahead?

[Hasan Minhaj]

You jump six things ahead. But I have some WCD advice for

[Oz Pearlman]

you, host, and I am joining the illustrious list with you. Frank Sinatra, Conan o', Brien, Leno.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

And so speaking of world leaders, President Donald Trump, I don't know if you heard, that guy is going to be there for the first time in his presidency. So big deal. Me, I am ready.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Is there an outcome that you want? Is there an essay you want to share?

[Oz Pearlman]

So I have, like, escalating levels of goals. One of the goals is for the room to have an incredible experience. Sure. That's actually, in my opinion, far and away the easiest. That's what I do. That's my core competency. I do corporate events. Rooms that seem cold. I warm them up.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah. Hilton Ballroom. That's Madison Square Garden for you.

[Oz Pearlman]

Fully. Also. It's not fair. Me against you is not a fair match. Like, not a fair fight. Like, if you do a set and I do a set. We're not even on the same level. Like, I am just. You're not engaging the audience. It's not. You're fighting. It's cheating. It's like as if what you do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What you do is cheating. Is what you do.

[Oz Pearlman]

Blows you out of the water. It's like if a comedian.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Thank you for saying that.

[Oz Pearlman]

I open before you. It's rough for you. And I tell you that from. From experience, because I'm with the audience, I go out in the audience and I use them in the show. It's so much more interactive.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

That it's almost akin to some comedians I've seen. Like, Big J Okerson, when I've seen him at the Cellar and just does the crowd and then somebody comes up who does long form. You're dead in the water compared to some act like that. Like, it just. It's not fair. Right. So I don't worry about it because you've got to capture people with comedy. Comedy is very subjective. You could be the best comedian in the world. There's at least 25% of the audience that doesn't necessarily like your comedy. Right. Just. That's a fact.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Music. Totally.

[Oz Pearlman]

Everyone. Everyone likes this feeling. Oh, everyone likes that. Everyone. I don't care. If you say you hate magic, people will say, I hate magic. But I like what you do. Because what I do appeals to smarter people. Because it doesn't feel like magic. There's no trick. Like, where's the box? Where's the fake deck of cards? There isn't one. How are you doing this?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

So even if you hate me, which is a great. I love that emotion. You are very caught up in it. Sure. The haters tend to be the best ones. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

The haters tend to be the ones who become mentalists because you're like, I want to learn to do it. Yeah. And you also have.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You win in both outcomes if you're someone like me who's just like, I love magic.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Great. You got me. And then if you're. You're someone who despises O's.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I can't stand this guy.

[Oz Pearlman]

It's weird how there are some. You have.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have the ultimate punchline, which is like, well, how'd I do that?

[Oz Pearlman]

Right. I don't really care if I did it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Which gets you. But. But it's at least intriguing and stays intriguing. Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah. Because my job is not to fool people. That. That's a side effect of the.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So. So you. So you've. You've laid out the baseline on a base level. I want to rock the room. And I want to rock the room. Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Is probably my lowest priority. Priority number two, more eyeballs. The tv. Like, who's watching on tv, sure. Is probably slightly more important, but they go hand in hand. But as you know, production is critical. And in a show that's interactive of the audience, if a camera misses a reaction, everyone in the room feels it. It might be on imag, but everyone at home watching on CNN and Fox News go, whatever. So it's very difficult because we have to block things out effectively. And my show is frenetic and. And random people throwing around Frisbees, people hitting beach balls. Because if you don't do that well, you might have set it up with Wolf Blitzer. The Wolf man might be on the payroll, baby. I'm not. I'll pay people. I have no moral compass. So we need to know that anyone out there. And how do we know it's. It's not fake? Because it's done at random and their reactions are genuine. It's so hard to fake a genuine, authentic reaction. Yeah. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean. I mean, Oz, I just want to. I don't want to get ahead of you. And trust me. And this is coming from someone who's very bold and interrupts his guests. And you're coming in with a lot of energy. I just want to stop you real quick. You're dealing with C SPAN camera operators. So these people are geriatric.

[Oz Pearlman]

I know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

They're going to say, like, hey, I was. Whatever you want to do, I can keep up with you. They're not going to be able to.

[Oz Pearlman]

I'm just letting you know, slow down the flow 100%. We're going to try to block it out. I have some thoughts on this. We're going to do a longer rehearsal than normal, but I assume 90% of it will be messed up. And I'll just sit there and just try not to stew.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hey, you setting that as your expectation, brother, you've already won.

[Oz Pearlman]

And then last but not least, the number one thing by far.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Is my interaction with President djt. That's gonna be. That's what everyone's coming for. That's the fight. That's the main. The undercard is everything else. That is the question. The man that I don't think anyone can fully read in the world.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Can I get inside his head?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you have this vision where you're like, look, world peace, humility, dignity, honor. Chill out. Stop tweeting. If you plant those five, I'm telling you.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The world would be a significantly better place.

[Oz Pearlman]

That would be. I guess maybe I should go deeper. I've got one mission at hand that I'm focused on at the beginning.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's a rare opportunity. In addition to. Whoa, Wolf.

[Oz Pearlman]

World peace is a tough one at the moment, but, yeah, that would be good.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Even just as a general. Everyone chill out.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We don't have to tweet. You don't have to put that on. Truth Social. Huge.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah, Huge.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm just. I'm pitching this to you as a performer. Both. I'm a comedic performer, but just. Just something to think about.

[Oz Pearlman]

I don't know if he can be influenced, really. No, but that's your whole. But my influence is much more subtle. You're like doing the movie Inception where you put a thought all the way in. You go deeper, deeper, deeper. Like four dreams deep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

I'm at dream one.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

For real right now. If the water starts coming in, Leonardo DiCaprio pops out and he's back in the real world. You need three or four dreams deep to start getting that level.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, got it. You're talking about what my goal is to get at the substrate and core of what it means to be human.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yes. Or.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Or.

[Oz Pearlman]

Or not trying to change major characteristic traits.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

I'm trying to instill one thought.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

Your book.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Read. Read your mind. Gives people practical advice to use mind reading.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

To help them succeed.

[Oz Pearlman]

Not really mind reading. I wouldn't say that, because it's the book. The first line of the book is, I can't really read minds. I read people. So mind reading is not real. I'm not really reading people's minds.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're reading body language.

[Oz Pearlman]

That's some of it. That's not all of it. By any means. There's a lot more involved.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'll take you through some scenarios. You tell me, because I need help with this.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How do I get my kids to do what I want?

[Oz Pearlman]

It's a very good question and one that I'm struggling with as well. As a father of five.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Five.

[Oz Pearlman]

And I think at different ages, there's different things I can tell you. One thing to do is, in a power struggle, you will always lose Against a toddler. Because the moment that they realize they have power over you and that they can say no and that they're in charge of you, that is a better drug than anything. Right. So the same way that a magician misdirects your attention, they make you look at the wrong place at the right time.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

So you look at this hand while this hand is doing something sneaky.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Damn it.

[Oz Pearlman]

So with your children, if your job, your core mission, let's say in this moment, is to get them to eat vegetables. Right? They have to eat vegetables. They don't like eating vegetables.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Oz Pearlman]

So what do we do in that case? First, we have to make it more fun. The cheerful fun silly is better. Same way that giggly silly. The next up is creating choices. So now they're in charge, not you are. You go, you get to pick which one you eat first, and you lay out four things. You go, I want this one. Don't you dare eat this one. Reverse psychology works exceedingly well with kids up to a certain age. My two and a half year old, if I say to her, don't you eat it? Don't you. I'm going to eat it. She'll eat it right away.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

So that works really well, giving people a bunch of choices that they get to choose within so they feel like they had agency when they didn't. When in the end, you were fine with them eating any of the four things.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What are some tips and tricks for, say, job interviews?

[Oz Pearlman]

I cheated in interviews because on my resume, and this is, Everyone should do this. My resume said, professional magician for nine years.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Great.

[Oz Pearlman]

Do you have any idea what a cheat code that is? That's up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, and contra.

[Hasan Minhaj]

A, B, a, C, a, b, B.

[Oz Pearlman]

There's nobody ever that reads that resume and doesn't look up at you like this and go, professional magician.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Can you do a trick? And I would always say, you know what? Let's keep talking. And at the end of the interview, if we have time, I'd love to show you one thing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, if we have time.

[Oz Pearlman]

There you change the power dynamic of me being your dancing monkey who dances on command to more of, I'm in charge now. If we have time, I'll do something. So now I've kept you on the hook where the whole time we're in foreplay mode. This whole interview's waiting for the good stuff. Right. And so at the end, I'm now not doing one thing. I'm doing 1, 2, 3. Just bangers, greatest Hits. Boom, boom, boom. I'm Journey. Don't stop believing at the end. Yeah, yeah. We go at most of my interviews, anywhere from 5 to 12 minutes over the next person's interview.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Oz Pearlman]

When we walk out, I already have the job.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You got a Goldman look after me. Thank you. Good night. Fully.

[Oz Pearlman]

I was, like, just doing, like, a dap handshake with Merrill lynch as I got the. The internship. As I walked out the door.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Like, they're like, I don't care what this guy could do. He could do magic tricks all day in the office.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

Why would we not hire?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Spring is here, folks. Well, she's been a little flaky. So instead of oscillating between heat and ac, we've been opening our windows on the warmer days. We love the fresh air. It's great. But unfortunately, it is also starting to bring in some nefarious critters. Not the kids next door. I'm talking about bugs. Those tiny, shiny imbeciles are trying to take over my home and ruin my marriage. You put your wife between you and one spider and suddenly you don't care about her safety? Thankfully, we have found today's sponsor, Pesti. Pesti is a do it yourself pest control treatment customized to your location, bugs, and climate. They mail you a kit with custom pesticide instructions and everything else you need, like gloves and a sprayer. You can complete the instructions in less than 10 minutes, and you can start as low as 35 bucks a treatment. Plus, Pesti is kid and pet friendly. The pesticides they ship have been used in hospitals and schools all over the country. With the DIY kit, there's no strangers in your house to protect your wife from. Because I would. I can be really scary. If I want to get bugs out of your house with Pesti, go to pesti.comhussin for an extra 10% off your order. That's P-E-S-T-I e.comhusin for an extra 10% off. I've said before that I am an Internet bad boy. And no, it's not because I post videos of me threatening Ronny Chieng or because I pose in tough fits on the COVID of Esquire. It's because I refuse to be limited by my IP address. That's right. I use NordVPN, which is today's sponsor, thanks to our sponsors. You can go to NordVPN.com Hasan Minhaj for an exclusive deal today. To be for real, I'm not really a bad boy. Okay. I like to think I possess a lot of virtues, but patience is not one of them. Which is why NORDVPN is imperative. Now I am able to share large files with no hassle. Thanks to hundreds of secure P2P servers. NordVPN gives me an ultra fast connection while protecting my data. I don't have to sacrifice speed for security. But most importantly now I don't have to wait for Love Island UK to hit the United States. I can watch in real time and text my British bestie Riz Ahmed all about the drama. Go to nordvpn.com Hasan Minhaj to get a huge discount on a plan of your choice. And you will get four extra months for free. Plus Nord has a 30 day money back guarantee. So if you don't like it, no harm, no foul. Now you can be bad people on the Internet too. That's not what I meant. Tyler. Can you just cut around that? Because I don't mean bad be bad. On the Internet you can cut out bad people. Yeah. Thank you. Let's walk through my typical morning. I wake up in a cold sweat to my son prodding me with a machete. Fake, of course, but still very jarring. School prep is absolute chaos. I just make sure I get the kids food in their belly. And then I make sure I get enough coffee. Hello, triple espresso. Then I drop the kids off at school and I head straight to the office. There I immediately go into interview prep. We'll test the video cues, we'll do last looks. And then I am in the chair with this week's guest. On occasion, this. This is when I'll feel my mind start to slip a bit. I'll keep mispronouncing a word or my vibe will just be off. And that's when I realize it's 2:30pm And I've only had coffee. Your boy needs to eat. We need the fuel. But with a schedule like mine, I don't have the time to prep. And fast food would just make me feel a whole lot worse. And that is where Huel, today's sponsor, comes in. That's Huel. H U E L I've started grabbing a Black edition, ready to drink on my way out the door. It's a complete meal. You got 35 grams of protein, 7 grams of fiber, 27 essential vitamins and minerals. Minerals. No artificial sweeteners and it's under five bucks. Then on days when I want something different, I use the Black Edition powder. I'll blend it with a little ice and milk for a smoothie vibe or I'll just shake it up with water. The powder has the same nutrition plus a bigger protein boost. 40 grams. Huels my insurance policy against burnout. Check out Huel today and get an exclusive 15% off online with my code [e-mail] SL Huss 15 new customers only him.

[Oz Pearlman]

The next step is everybody should learn three magic tricks.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Like your four trick done.

[Oz Pearlman]

That one's not the best because it was a little too long. But you can buy gimmicks. Penguin magic.com you can buy a beginner magic trick that's impromptu that you could have with you at a moment's notice. Everywhere, everywhere, anywhere you go, you're ready to go with a piece of paper or a box of matches that is like super Superman just being able to. Clark Kent rips off the cape and he's ready to go. Everybody should have two or three magic tricks in life. I've told this to everyone.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Is it sad or awesome that as a 40 year old man that's a professional comedian that I'm like, yeah, let me do that.

[Oz Pearlman]

You should do that. I mean, I wouldn't say have a fake ear. Like in the 40 year old version where they like you had to bring a fake ear. You want to avoid bringing a fake ear. But you want to seem like it's impromptu and you want to seem because it's an instant way to connect with other people. So that, that's one thing I would tell you. Now let's say you don't have any of those ready.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Muhammad Ali could do magic, right?

[Oz Pearlman]

He would do magic always give it away in 60 minutes. He like showed you. I'm not gonna say what it is. Watch. Ever. But he immediately showed you how the trick was done, which magicians were fuming about.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why?

[Oz Pearlman]

Because we don't really like for you to tell us how the tricks are done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But wasn't that endearing though? Because he's the champ and then he's

[Oz Pearlman]

kind of endearing, you can't really do anything about it because he'll knock you out. But in job interview that what I've seen is that you're drawn to somebody who's very interested in the role. Now they can BS you a certain level, but your energy and matching energy is such a big thing now. I'm not talking like reiki energy. I mean the tone of your voice, the way your body language conveys the fact that you're sitting forward. You're very, very interested in what's going on. People can Detect nervous energy. If you walk into a room, you sit there awkwardly with a drink, waiting for your time to go talk to someone. That lack of confidence eats away at you. If you walk in, immediately walk to the person you want to talk to and immediately approach them. That confidence is contagious. It's like, man, do you see that guy? He's just like.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So when you read my energy, do you think I have high self esteem or low self esteem?

[Oz Pearlman]

I mean, I think a lot of performers have a mix where we're insecure, but we have very high self esteem.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's right. That's both.

[Oz Pearlman]

You have very high self esteem.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no. I.

[Oz Pearlman]

That's. You're insecure at a certain point because you have to perform to generate the esteem, but you have very high self esteem.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You really think so?

[Oz Pearlman]

I believe that at your core, you know, you're damn good at what you do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Be honest with you, Ellis. This is the first thing you've gotten wrong today.

[Oz Pearlman]

You genuinely don't think you're good at what you do. You know, you can be humble, but you know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no. This, what I suffer with is basically a cafe con leche.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Which is a 50 50, which is, yes, I have high self esteem. And then also you're insecure at the same time. Zero self worth.

[Oz Pearlman]

Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And those two things are constantly having a tug of war.

[Oz Pearlman]

But people that are great at what they do always have that. So I've seen people that are in my industry who will tell me, I killed it. This show is unbelievable. It's 10 out of 10, you know, even higher. And they'll say that about every show. And to me, I'm jealous of that in a certain way.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, I want to just disagree. Elon Musk has all cafe. There's no leche. He is fully believing every tweet.

[Oz Pearlman]

There's no part of him that says, I made a mistake ever. Behind closed doors, when you're by yourself, there's no imposter syndrome. There's just like, I'm the fucking man. Pardon my French.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Maybe you're right. Maybe. Maybe after the fact, things do hurt his feelings. But I think he operates very much from a. Like this one's going in.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Whether it's going to or not. Meaning, like, I'm gonna revolutionize.

[Oz Pearlman]

He's not a performer, so he's not drawing his self worth from others that can give it to him. You and I, if audiences think we suck, we suck.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's bad.

[Oz Pearlman]

No, but no, no. Yeah, we suck.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We do Suck.

[Oz Pearlman]

You could say you're the best person ever. If the audience disagrees, they're right. You're wrong.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Correct.

[Oz Pearlman]

That's. It's literally. The proof is in the pudding. Right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

In live performance. Especially in live performance. Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Well, live performance on Netflix numbers, like everything, is a measure of quantifiable data as to how good you are at what you do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes. In. In chapter 11, you talk about how reading people is about reading body language.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm going to give you a series of kind of body language, and you tell me what. What. I'm showcasing you.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay. What.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is my body language saying? Okay. What's this say?

[Oz Pearlman]

I would call that man spreading.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yep. But what am I saying?

[Oz Pearlman]

That's saying I don't give a crap about anybody around me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, that's right.

[Oz Pearlman]

That's.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's astronomy.

[Oz Pearlman]

I hate everybody here. And. And I'm literally going to impose on everyone else's space.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, here we go. What's this one?

[Oz Pearlman]

This has two meanings. This can sometimes be a conveyor of extreme confidence where the person is that open that they don't mind just letting it all hang out. Other times, I think that this is a situation where they really don't care about what you're saying whatsoever.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Two things that I was signaling here. I want you to compliment my triceps.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay. But you're wearing a very thick sweater.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The other one. This is what my son does when we start reading Diary of a Wimpy Kid. And he's really into it.

[Oz Pearlman]

Nice.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We'll be reading it in bed and he'll kick back. He'll give me the full kickback factor, and I'm like, oh, he's locked into fiction. So that's what I was saying. It's actually not disinterest. I've seen him.

[Oz Pearlman]

I would be an adult.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, got it.

[Oz Pearlman]

For an adult. You gotta qualify it for kids. That's different. Kids have a different barometer.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's this one?

[Oz Pearlman]

Skeptical. Skeptical and on guard. Closed off body language.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. So for this one, when I'm a comedian performing this means next comic.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah, this is bad.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, this is bad for me. How about this one?

[Oz Pearlman]

I'm pretending I like you, but I actually hate you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So I'm a psychopath.

[Oz Pearlman]

It's pretty dead on.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Or I'm a real estate agent. You've written that seeing your palms makes people trust you. Just.

[Oz Pearlman]

I trust you already.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you're telling me if I walk up and just go.

[Oz Pearlman]

I think having your hands in your pockets is hardwired. Into our brains that you can't really see what somebody's doing. So if you're walking over, I do think it's very useful to use your hands in emoting.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You mean like, may I have your daughter's hand in marriage?

[Oz Pearlman]

You could do that. I wouldn't. Keep your hands there while there.

[Hasan Minhaj]

While you're doing it, may I have your daughters hand in marriage.

[Oz Pearlman]

Did you do this exact thing before you got married?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I did smile.

[Oz Pearlman]

But did you put your hands out

[Hasan Minhaj]

emotionally? I did, yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

But you did the psychopath smile at the same time?

[Hasan Minhaj]

No. I did. I mean, almost.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay, it works.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And for what it's worth, it is. This is my natural smile.

[Oz Pearlman]

You're two kids deep. It worked.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It did work. I want to reach out to all the aspiring magicians out there, and this is why the show's so important and serious in doing the necessary work that really matters in society. There's a lot of magicians that are inspired by you. Tyler is one who's inspired by you. And there's countless other young, young men with some form, and some women are

[Oz Pearlman]

getting into it, and I'm all about

[Hasan Minhaj]

that, and I love that. But we all have some wound inside of us that we're filling with penguin magic or stand up comedy. Now, I want to make a delineation here because you keep dunking on magic and you keep dunking on mentalism, and

[Oz Pearlman]

I don't think you should dunking in a bad way.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Dunking in a bad way.

[Oz Pearlman]

How come?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, you keep saying I wasn't. You're not able to get dates. And it's not. Let me just say this.

[Oz Pearlman]

I didn't mean it as like a losery thing. I just. I would say that at the beginning, I loved it for the love of the game.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

But if you said to me, were there other benefits from it in terms of it lets you shine? Yeah. And I got attention. And that's one of those drugs that's very, very addictive.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you believe you got your big break on America's Got Talent? That was one of the first big breaks that you got.

[Oz Pearlman]

Biggest break. Break. It's like it's the single biggest moment of my career that then everything else stacked on top. But if you just look at it like, which thing did the first big bump and then the other bumps go from there. But that was the biggest because it changed my trajectory. Let me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let me just say this. And I have a beef with agt. And look, Howie Mandel, if you want to fire shots at me, fine.

[Oz Pearlman]

Wow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm right here.

[Oz Pearlman]

Wow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I have a huge beef with agt because here's the problem. It's America's Got Talent. Now here's the thing with talent, okay? There are talent shows and there are freak shows. Oz, me and you, mentalist slash magician, comedian, clowns, we are part of the freak show. But for you to do your particular freak thing on a talent show, that's for singers, okay? You have to follow a singer. You have to follow Kelly Clarkson. You have to follow Jennifer Hudson. They already have, by the way, talent shows, right? That's American Idol. That's the voice. They have talent. So I think there needs to be two different types of shows. The talent show, the freak show, and you, my brother, would win the freak show.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah, I don't mind.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's just a rant.

[Oz Pearlman]

I don't mind.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. So my pitch. And you can. You can see the cart. America's got freaks. That's my pitch.

[Oz Pearlman]

America's got freaks. Agf. You could do it. They've tried.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You mind ruining a magic trick for me?

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay, okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So I previously had Alex Honnold on the show. I showed him this magic trick. Yeah. So let's. And I know you're not supposed to do this, but just real quick. I showed him this David Copperfield trick and Alex said, this isn't magic. But here's my thing. We have this on a wide. Now watch. They're gonna go to a medium real quick. Bam. Okay? I mean, he is flying over the Grand Canyon here. Now watch when they do this. You see the wind through his hair. Alex told me this isn't magic.

[Oz Pearlman]

What do you mean it isn't magic?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean, I don't know what to believe. That's a witch. That is Wiccan. That is what we talked about. What is she doing? I don't.

[Oz Pearlman]

Singing, bro.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't know what the fuck she's doing.

[Oz Pearlman]

Is there sound with this? I've never seen.

[Hasan Minhaj]

There is sound, but we don't want to play it because otherwise the video get demonetized. Yeah, but Alex said he's not flying.

[Oz Pearlman]

Well, yeah, I don't.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is he doing?

[Oz Pearlman]

I mean, the term is a levitation. But how he did that. There's. To me, there's only a few ways, right? There's not. There's. It's. You can work backwards. How could he do that? He's not actually flying.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So fine, he's floating.

[Oz Pearlman]

Floating, Flying. Whatever you want to call it. But gravity still exists. So gravity would pull him down. Unless something was holding him up or. I don't know if that's a camera trick. I don't know if it is or isn't. I don't. Again, I can't speak to that. What I do is very different because that has a wonder to it but has nothing to do with me. Mine is guessing things. Mine is more like, let's do this. Yeah, Right. I walked in here.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

We talked a little bit about families. We talked about how we had met before. So there is history, everyone that watching this right now. I need to set the tone, I need to give the disclaimers.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Oz Pearlman]

We met at the ESPYs a couple years ago.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Imagine you had a time machine. Have a time machine? Yes. Okay. Close your eyes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

And you rewind back in your life and you see pivotal moments. Maybe the day one of your children's born. The day you got married. Yeah. The day you held your palms out to your father in law, very weirdly, with a smile and said, please, can I take your daughter's hand? And he looked at you because you look crazy and almost said, no. And you keep going back. And at some point I ask you to freeze. You go back in time and you look into the face directly of somebody that you have not thought of before today, in years. You don't know why, what reason or why, but you're seeing this person in your mind at this very moment. Open your eyes. If I were to poll everybody on your team.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

And say, who do you think Hasan thought of? Do you think any of them will get it right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

100%? No.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay, the next question is Scott, who's

[Hasan Minhaj]

off camera, our producer.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Definitely doesn't know.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay. So the next question is, does this exist anywhere? Could I have gone on Facebook or social media, found this out?

[Hasan Minhaj]

No way.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay. Is this written on one of your cards here?

[Hasan Minhaj]

It is not.

[Oz Pearlman]

Right. It's not on your phone anywhere. It's not written down here. It's nowhere.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's not in the smoke anywhere.

[Oz Pearlman]

There's nowhere Right now, this is a thought that formulated in your brain and that's the only place it exists in the world.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay. Think of the first name. Think of the last name.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

And I want you to count how many letters are in his first name. But not to yourself and not out loud. Simply to yourself.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Felt long. It felt like a longer name. It felt to me like you counted it. My gut says you count it once, but with the wavering, it feels like you double just to check. More often than not, when people do the Double count.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

It's always a longer name. You don't pick a guy named Bob or Bill and double count.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right, right.

[Oz Pearlman]

But when a name is longer, especially with duplicate letters. Duplicate letters make our brain. They're very difficult because they combine. It's like a mirror image. So if you were to think of a girl named Annette, that's a brutal name because you're like, double N, double N, double T, double T. It's a killer. It's a killer. So certain names like that, think of any letter in the first name. Out of those, it's seven letters long, isn't it? That's when I just figured out seven letters, isn't it?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Yeah. And now think of any letter in his first name. Okay, you got one? Of course. I think that when you saw the name, just like shooting a bow and arrow, you shot a letter in the middle. Was it in the middle? No. It's not a letter in the middle?

[Hasan Minhaj]

No.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Stay with that letter.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

Is there. Where are the cameras? Is there a camera? You can't see it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

There's a camera here.

[Oz Pearlman]

I hold the camera here. If I hold the camera here, they'll be able to see it. Is that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right back there? Can you guys see what he's doing?

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay. Wasn't the first letter you thought of, was it?

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, it is. It is.

[Oz Pearlman]

So I just. See, I always don't like when people do the first letter because it feels like it might give away the name. Once you have seven letters, you might think you could do the rest of it. And then I thought to myself, this is. You know what you would never have done an easy name. You wouldn't have done it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I read this for sure now because

[Oz Pearlman]

you said, I'm going to get this guy. So a theory that people say when I do this, lots of them, is that I don't write it. Right now that I write it after you say it, That's. That's. If you look at the comments, people go, he didn't really write it. He's. I don't know what the trick is. They're welcome. But this is written. They've seen it. I can't change my mind.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

It's a piece of paper.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's a piece of paper. It's a marker. Yeah, yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Tell us all you know where you are.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're outdoors at times.

[Oz Pearlman]

No, with him. Right. When you thought about it, you were outdoors.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

And do you know what your reference earlier was in your mind this whole time? When you said to me something you said don't dunk on Magic Swish. You made it. You and him used to play basketball together, didn't you?

[Hasan Minhaj]

What the fuck? Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

What's his name?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Purnell Davis.

[Oz Pearlman]

Purnell.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What the fuck? Are you kidding me,

[Oz Pearlman]

bro?

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is like the craziest. I don't even know anyone on planet Earth with the name Pernell. Bro. Pernell, wherever you are, bro, this is fucking crazy. Picture this. You're finally taking time to clean out your gutters. Not fun, but hey, good for you. Your elbows deep in soggy leaves. And then suddenly the smoke alarm starts blaring from inside. Smoke pours out the window. What do you do? ADTs do it yourself Systems are built for those moments in your life when everything turns on a dime. They're affordable, easy to set up, and the ADT plus app keeps you in control 24. 7 from virtually anywhere, tackle your to do list knowing that your home is protected. When every second Counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT ASAP.

[Oz Pearlman]

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[Hasan Minhaj]

You have to incept world peace into Donald Trump's mind. Are you cra. You guessed Pernell Davis?

[Oz Pearlman]

I didn't get the last name, but yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Respect international law in the Geneva Convention. You have to. You've got fucking Purnell Pernell, bro. I miss you.

[Oz Pearlman]

Comment in the video. Purnell, get in here. Tell them it's real. We've been playing the long game. I was playing Pernell Davis at basketball before you even were. We have time for one more. Should we get one or two people in here? Your brain is fried. I can't do you anymore. You're cooked. Who else should we get in here?

[Hasan Minhaj]

How did you do that?

[Oz Pearlman]

Should we get Tyler in here? Get Tyler.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Tyler, get in here right now.

[Oz Pearlman]

Tyler, get in here.

[Hasan Minhaj]

God, bro. Pernell, what's up now? I miss you, bro. We used to play basketball in high school.

[Oz Pearlman]

Do we see Tyler?

[Hasan Minhaj]

But how did you Guess what we. Oh, my God.

[Oz Pearlman]

Can we see Tyler? We have a 360cam here. We have a 360 and we have.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He got Pernell.

[Oz Pearlman]

Tyler.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes?

[Oz Pearlman]

If I asked you right this second, to think of somebody from your childhood the same way he did, and I guessed it. Do you know what that would be? It wouldn't be any better. It actually is worse when you do the same thing twice. The audience sees it. As you went down, you kind of plateaued. I can't plateau. So you consciously decided to pick Pernell. You consciously made a choice? Yes. Tyler's is meant to be spontaneous. Tyler, I like to give a scenario. You walk in the room, you didn't know you'd get called in here. We thought we might do something with some of the staff. And I said, let's get some people involved. But, Tyler, I ask you to imagine you walked in and you are all of a sudden absolutely embarrassed because your phone in your pocket rings. You ready for this? Play this out. And you go. You feel it. And you're like, oh, crap. Oh, crap, I'm on camera. And you grab the phone, you look at it, and you silence it. And when you look down, you see the name of someone calling you that is utterly and completely unexpected. The shock on your face registers clear as day. This person is picked completely at random. And you go, why are they calling me right now? Can you picture not just their name, but do you know in your mind what this person looks like? Yeah. All right. Do you call this person by their first name, their last name, or a nickname? First name. I don't think it's a family member, is it? It didn't feel like a family member because a family member would be slightly more expected. Do you see what I'm saying? Just the phrasing. If his mom called him, he'd be like, well, I expect mom to call Tyler looks like a good guy. Well manicured beard. Think of the first name and pick any letter in the first name. Pick one to yourself. There it is. You got it. Now you pick the first letter. He saw that. He didn't pick the first letter. Did you? No way. No way. Nobody doubles up like that. They're like, get it right this time. You read from left to right. Your eyes go left to right. You did linger on the last letter, but I can't decide if it was the lingering of debating or selection. I don't think you end up with the last letter. Did you?

[Hasan Minhaj]

R?

[Oz Pearlman]

Are you the letter R?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Are you just playing along? Are you being for real right now?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Come on, bro. He's you. You brought him.

[Oz Pearlman]

I brought him into the game. I brought him into the game. Definitely female. We know it's a female. And Then she comes in. She comes to the room. Think of the last name. Think of an interesting letter. And the last name. Just think of an interesting letter. Next letter. G. You just thought of a G, didn't you? See, I'm on fire right now. I'm on fire.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, my God.

[Oz Pearlman]

Pernell. I only got the first name, but this one. I think I'm going last name, too. I don't think you spoke to a while. I think it work related, but not direct. It was like somebody you worked with through someone else. Come look at who this is. Do you see that?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Do you know who it is?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you know who this person?

[Oz Pearlman]

Do you know her? Tell us all. What's her first and last name? Aaron Hodges. Aaron Hodges.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What the. What the. Dude, this is crazy. This die. Master Shifu, do you want to do one on Annie?

[Oz Pearlman]

What time is it? Because I'm gonna get massacred by my children if I don't get. Okay, I have two minutes. Two minutes. Two minutes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Bring home with it. Bring it home.

[Oz Pearlman]

When's your birthday? July 4th. Oh, wow, what a fun one. Dual celebration. So red, white, and blue cake, right? Red, white, and blue cake. Here, picture this. How many people would you invite to your next birthday? Was a big milestone. Give me a number right now. Say it. Make up a number. How many people are you inviting and how many attend? All of them are going to attend because you're amazing. Trick question. How many people are going to be there?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's say like 30.

[Oz Pearlman]

30. Okay. 30 is okay. Maybe Tyler didn't make the cut. Let's be real. So you're with 30 people in the room. Or maybe it's outdoors because 4th of July, so it's really pretty. Maybe you have sparklers as the candles, but you don't want to usurp Fourth of July. I'm getting sidetracked. Candles on the birthday cake. You're saying hi to everybody. I always like to create a story, right? I could just say, think of someone, but that's not as exciting, right? Then you blow out the candles. Everyone smiles. And I always like to say, you look around at the people you care about, the people you love. Those are the moments that count. And right then, when you turn to your left, somebody smiles at you. They wish you a happy birthday, Annie. Right as you turn to the right, you don't even see them. They tap you on the shoulder. You see who it is, right? As they give you a big hug, you look them right in the eyes. Can you see this person right now in your eyes?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Oz Pearlman]

Okay. If they had a birthday, would you be at their birthday? Yes. Have you been to their birthday before? Not a while. Ooh, this is being shot in April, not in a while. So birthday. She would have invited. Right? So hear me out. Couldn't have been. Couldn't have been April, March or February, maybe not January. We're narrowing it down. Watch this. August, September, October, November, December. Person. You're thinking I was born in September, aren't they? Yes. One out of 12, but not bad. Do you know their actual birthday or you're not sure? You think you kind of know? I think I know. Okay. Yeah. How sure are you? Nobody knows birthdays anymore. It's like Facebook. 85. 85% sure that you think you know the birthday. Yes. September, Beginning, middle, end. Think about it a little bit. Think about it a little bit. 85%. I think you actually know it. And you're right. Normally when people think they're not right, I'm like, they're off by a day or two. I think you got it. I think you got it. Hassan.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What?

[Oz Pearlman]

I'm at the casino. I'm playing the win soon.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

Imagine I'm at the casino. And you know what they do? Bam. Bam. They deal two cards. Yes. the blackjack table. Sure. And I get. Nice. And a 10. 21. 21's his birthday.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Oz Pearlman]

It's got a weird name. Weird name. Weird name. Right? It's like, is there any way I could have. We never met before I got here today? Ever in our lives. I don't think we get it. It's. Starts with an N. No, the ends in the middle. There is an N in the middle. No, no. It's like a. My God. Do you hear what I said? Did you hear what I said earlier? I'm. I'm starting a residency in Vegas. Yes. At the Win at the Wynn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Oz Pearlman]

Her friend's name is Windham.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How are you doing this?

[Oz Pearlman]

I gotta go. I gotta go. I'm taking my kids to rock climbing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How are you doing? This emotional pap smear on me like it's. You're looking into my soul. This is crazy. O's Pearlman, ladies and gentlemen. That was awesome, man. Come on. Talk about a full circle. You did great.

[Oz Pearlman]

Nice.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I can't wait to see you again. Thank you.