HBR IdeaCast: Lessons in Leading Through Crisis From Jacinda Ardern

Date: June 10, 2025
Host: Alison Beard (Harvard Business Review)
Guest: Jacinda Ardern, former Prime Minister of New Zealand

Overview

This episode features a conversation with Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand’s former Prime Minister, renowned for her leadership during a historic period of continual crises—including biosecurity threats, terrorist attacks, and the COVID-19 pandemic. Drawing from her newly released memoir, "A Different Kind of Power," Ardern shares hard-learned lessons in crisis management, decision-making under uncertainty, building trust through authenticity, sustaining resilience, and advocating empathetic leadership. The discussion is rich with actionable insights for business and political leaders navigating today’s VUCA (volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous) world.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Learning to Lead Through Crisis

• Trial by Fire in Early Crises

  • Ardern describes her initiation into crisis leadership through a major biosecurity threat (mycoplasma bovis):

    “The major take home for me was making a decision in a really uncertain environment where there wasn’t a template.” (03:15)

  • Her approach: convene affected communities, gather diverse expert perspectives, and look globally for precedents—even when none existed.

• The Path of Least Regret

  • She explains her logic behind choosing bold action:

    “If we choose a path no one else is traveling and we fail, we simply end up in the place that many others are in.” (04:15)

  • This same mindset would inform her decision-making during the pandemic.

2. Decision-Making Under Uncertainty

• Embracing Imposter Syndrome as a Strength

  • Ardern reframes self-doubt as a driver for preparation and thoroughness:

    “This notion of imposter syndrome... actually drove me towards an approach that I think helped me in decision making.” (04:43)

  • She balanced committing to decisions with transparency around the available choices and information gaps.

• Transparency as a Trust-Building Tool

  • She emphasizes:

    “Sharing openly not just the decision that we'd made, but the choices that we had and sharing that openly... really helped with then enacting the decision because we needed people to be on board.” (05:40)

3. Confidence, Criticism, and Empathy in Leadership

• Self-Doubt and Decisiveness

  • Contrary to stereotypes, Ardern found self-questioning made her a better leader:

    “Often I think there's an assumption that if you doubt yourself... you won't be decisive. Actually, I found the reverse to be true.” (06:10)

• Coping with Criticism & Political ‘Blood Sport’

  • Politics was often a “difficult experience” due to her thin skin, but:

    “Being thin skinned, or... emotional. Actually isn't that just empathy and isn't that a character trait that we want more of in leadership?” (07:02)

  • Learning to distinguish between constructive criticism and political attacks enabled her to compartmentalize and learn.

4. Empathetic Leadership in National Tragedy

• Christchurch Mass Shooting: Rapid, Decisive Action
  • Ardern credits public sentiment and parliamentary unity for swift gun law reform:

    “119 of the 120 members of parliament voted in favour of that legislation... we were simply channeling the sentiment.” (09:05)

5. Managing Multiple Priorities and Preventing Burnout

• Solving Crises & Policy Issues in Tandem

  • Ardern recounts using crisis as an opportunity to address underlying policy challenges, creating “win-win” solutions, such as jobs programs that also tackled climate adaptation and child poverty. (10:00-11:32)

• Resilience Strategies: Family, Team Support, and Sleep

  • Maintaining small reserved periods for family, and fiercely protecting sleep, were resilience levers:

    “Decision makers...need to be much more protective of sleep because it is a decision making tool and without it I think we're the poorer for it.” (12:50)

6. Building Confidence and Trust in Unpredictable Times

• Confidence Through Openness
  • Ardern challenges the traditional leadership model of always projecting certainty:

    “Being open about our knowledge gaps, sharing with people everything that we knew and everything we didn’t know, I think became a tool to build trust and confidence.” (13:24)

7. Negotiation and Consensus Building

• Domestic Policy: From Blame to Shared Purpose

  • On climate policy:

    “Blame took us nowhere... when we found that starting point, that really opened up the conversation, well, if we agree that, then what do we do next?” (14:46)

  • Effective negotiation began with understanding stakeholder history and interests, followed by co-designing solutions.

• International Negotiation: Prioritizing National Interests

  • She tailored her approach based on understanding counterparts’ frames of reference:

    “What is sitting in front of you at that point is how do I advocate best for my country...” (16:16)

8. Business Leadership and Policy Certainty

• Advice to Business Leaders:
  • Ardern’s guidance amid policy uncertainty:

    "If you operate at the highest bar that you can anticipate being set, then actually you're creating a level of certainty for yourself..." (20:06)

  • She encourages leaders to preemptively meet or exceed likely regulatory standards—creating certainty and building reputation, not just compliance.

9. Personal Leadership Journey and Motivations

• Origins of Social Consciousness

  • Her childhood in a struggling forestry community revealed social inequities:

    “There’s something about the simplicity of the way that a child views the world... I saw kids that didn’t have food to eat at school. Or didn’t have shoes in the winter. And that didn’t feel right to me.” (22:25)

• Role Models and Making Peace with Authenticity

  • She benefited from a lineage of female leaders but felt compelled to find her own way:

    “I thought my character would [be a barrier]... I didn’t always see imposter syndrome because people don’t often talk about that...” (23:38)

  • Ardern resolved to “stay human,” even if it compromised perceptions of political toughness. (26:09)

• Becoming Prime Minister: Reluctance to Responsibility

  • Initially refused the Labour leadership, but her sense of responsibility outweighed self-doubt:

    “At that point, whatever questions I had immediately flipped into, this is now my responsibility, and I am not gonna let people down.” (27:00)

• Stepping Down: A Responsible Transition

  • Her departure was motivated by honest self-assessment of her “reserves” and commitment to hand over before capacity diminished:

    “All of the traits that I valued so much in leadership... I could feel them waning... the duty I had was to go.” (28:20)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “If we choose a path no one else is traveling and we fail, we simply end up in the place that many others are in.” — Jacinda Ardern (04:15)
• “Often I think there’s an assumption that if you doubt yourself... you won't be decisive. Actually, I found the reverse to be true.” — Jacinda Ardern (06:10)
• “Being thin skinned, or... emotional. Actually isn't that just empathy and isn't that a character trait that we want more of in leadership?” — Jacinda Ardern (07:02)
• “119 of the 120 members of parliament voted in favour of that legislation... we were simply channeling the sentiment.” — Jacinda Ardern (09:05)
• “Decision makers... need to be much more protective of sleep because it is a decision making tool and without it I think we're the poorer for it.” — Jacinda Ardern (12:50)
• “Being open about our knowledge gaps... became a tool to build trust and confidence.” — Jacinda Ardern (13:24)
• “Blame took us nowhere... when we found that starting point, that really opened up the conversation.” — Jacinda Ardern (14:46)
• “If you operate at the highest bar that you can anticipate being set, then actually you're creating a level of certainty for yourself...” — Jacinda Ardern (20:06)
• “I was gonna stay human, yeah.” — Jacinda Ardern (26:10)
• “Whatever questions I had immediately flipped into, this is now my responsibility.” — Jacinda Ardern (27:00)
• “The duty I had was to go.” — Jacinda Ardern (28:20)

Memorable Moments & Emotional Highlights

• The swift passage of gun control legislation following national tragedy (09:05)
• Ardern’s candid admission of her “thin skin” and why she embraced empathy as a strength (07:02)
• The pivot from self-doubt to assuming the highest office out of responsibility (27:00)
• Her honest rationale for stepping down—not from burnout, but out of respect for the job and the people depending on her (28:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:04 – Early crisis management lessons
• 04:43 – Turning imposter syndrome into a leadership tool
• 06:10 – Confidence, doubt, and preparation
• 07:02 – Empathy vs. political toughness
• 09:05 – Christchurch shooting and rapid legislative response
• 10:00 – Managing policy and crisis together (“win-wins”)
• 12:50 – Avoiding burnout: family, sleep, and support
• 13:24 – Trust through transparency
• 14:46 – Consensus building and negotiation
• 16:16 – International leadership negotiation
• 20:06 – Navigating business uncertainty and climate policy
• 22:25 – Personal motivations and social consciousness
• 26:10 – Commitment to authenticity (“staying human”)
• 27:00 – Taking leadership: from reluctance to responsibility
• 28:20 – Responsible leadership transition and stepping down

Summary

Jacinda Ardern’s leadership journey provides a masterclass in crisis management, empathy, and authenticity—qualities increasingly vital to modern leadership. Her candid reflections challenge traditional paradigms about confidence, encourage radical transparency, and underscore the power of acting with responsibility and humanity in the highest offices. Her advice to business leaders: anticipate high standards, collaborate authentically, and build trust through openness—even, and especially, in times of uncertainty.