HBR IdeaCast: Wikipedia Cofounder Jimmy Wales on How to Build Trust

Date: November 4, 2025
Host: Alison Beard (B)
Guest: Jimmy Wales (C), Wikipedia cofounder and author of The Seven Rules of Trust

Episode Overview

This episode explores how to build trust within organizations and online communities, featuring insights from Jimmy Wales, the cofounder of Wikipedia. Wales discusses Wikipedia’s approach to fostering trust among contributors and users, shares stories about the encyclopedia’s evolution, and offers practical advice for leaders drawn from his new book, The Seven Rules of Trust: A Blueprint for Building Things That Last. The conversation is rich with actionable ideas for business leaders facing skepticism both internally and externally, and examines the broader implications of crowdsourced platforms in the age of AI and social media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Decline—and Importance—of Trust

• Contemporary Trust Issues: Trust across business, journalism, politics, and society at large has markedly declined in the last 20 years (04:11).
• Wales argues that “unless you can build a real foundation of trust with your staff, your customers, your partners…everything else [will be] a lot harder, a lot more expensive, and generally not very successful.” (03:33)

2. Wikipedia’s Surprising Path to Trustworthiness

• In Wikipedia's early days, skepticism was rampant about whether a crowdsourced platform could ever be trusted as an authority. Wales recounts:

  “I'm not sure I did know, but I hypothesized…we were going to have a lot of work to do to figure out…what are the rules that will give rise to better quality.” (06:28)

• Core principles established early—such as neutrality and sourcing—became the "bedrock" of the platform.
• Wales reveals his simple faith in community:

  “You can edit this page. I trust you’ll do something good and make it better and don’t do anything bad, please don’t be rude and annoying. And by and large that works.” (06:58)

3. The Generosity of Online Communities

• Wales discusses why people contribute to Wikipedia for free, citing examples from Reddit and his personal experiences with helpful strangers online.
• He highlights the positive aspects still present on the internet despite the toxicity of social media:

  “We can also find places online where people are incredibly generous with their time. That’s true on Reddit…We see that spirit in Wikipedia all the time.” (08:20)

• Editing Wikipedia brings together communities around shared interests—no matter how niche:

  “I didn’t know there were that many people who are interested in locomotives from the 1930s, but here we are, we found each other.” (10:02)

4. The Nonprofit Model as a Trust Signal

• Wikipedia became a nonprofit to avoid commercial pressures that could compromise neutrality and objectivity.

  “I don’t want to have ads in Wikipedia…What does that have to do with making an encyclopedia?” (10:36)

• Decision-making and governance are community-oriented, with half of the board elected by contributors.

5. The Seven Rules of Trust

1. Make It Personal

• Focus on individual users and their experience, rather than just aggregate metrics.

  “If you lose sight…of that individual customer…you may make mistakes that undermine the long-term health of the business.” (12:19)

• Example: Clickbait may drive traffic but erodes long-term trust.

2. Purpose

• Wikipedia's concise purpose ("free encyclopedia for everyone in their own language") serves as a clarifying touchstone for all decisions.

  “If we didn’t have a purpose that we understood, we could be all over the map.” (15:14)

• Staying focused prevents mission drift, unlike companies chasing fads unrelated to their core identity.

3–5. Assuming the Best, Civility, and Positive Environment

• Trust and civility are embedded in Wikipedia’s culture.

  “People are generally very nice… We prefer environments that are collaborative, cooperative, supportive, thoughtful, reasonable.” (18:57)

• Disagreements can be handled with civility, leading to stronger communities.

6. Independence

• Wales urges caution regarding organizational positions on political/social issues unless directly relevant:

  “I’m not that interested in such and such a fast food restaurant's view on whatever, like I don’t care. It’s probably more likely to annoy me...” (20:19)

• Exception: Intervening is necessary when volunteer safety or freedom of expression is at stake.

7. Transparency

• Wikipedia’s transparency is evident in public logs where every editorial decision is visible.

  “If you want to rebuild trust, you have to say, yeah, you know what, we got this really wrong.” (23:47)

Meta-Rule: Walk the Walk

• Genuine change requires following up apologies or admissions with concrete action:

  “If you just issue a statement saying, 'Oh, yeah, we screwed up'...and you go right back to doing what you did before, that's not going to help trust.” (24:13)

6. Trust Decisions in Business Contexts

• Navigating gray areas (e.g., retailers selling Pride or religious T-shirts) requires transparency and reliability rather than simply appeasing the majority:

  “Being transparent and being reliable and sort of doing what's expected helps to build trust.” (22:58)

7. The Impact of AI and Crowdsourcing

• Current AI tools often surface Wikipedia more frequently, but with less click-through traffic; Wales isn’t concerned for Wikipedia’s relevance because it offers verified information, not just quick answers.
• Wales is excited by the potential for AI to summarize lengthy discussions, increasing transparency:

  “Maybe AI could give a decent summary… That would help us to be more transparent.” (26:57)

8. Social Media vs. Wikipedia: Rules Matter

• Social media platforms failed to adopt guardrails similar to Wikipedia’s and face much harder moderation problems.

  “We have a purpose, which is to build an encyclopedia. And we’ve always said…Wikipedia is not a wide open free speech forum.” (28:21)

• Social media’s general “what’s on your mind” box leads to structural challenges not present for Wikipedia.

9. Optimism for the Internet

• Despite challenges, Wales remains enthusiastic about the positive community and learning opportunities the internet still offers:

  “That to me is still just as magical as it ever was.” (29:46)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On community generosity:
  “People do enjoy interacting in a pleasant and intellectual way with other people…if you extend that hand of trust to people and say, ‘hey, come on, let's do something great together’, a lot of people are like, yeah…I mean, that sounds a lot better than what I was going to do, which was yell at people on Twitter.” (09:39) – Jimmy Wales

• On focus and resisting scope creep:
  “Somebody once said in the early days…maybe we should offer free webmail accounts…But actually, no, because, like, what does that have to do with making an encyclopedia?” (15:14) – Jimmy Wales

• On apologizing and repairing trust:
  “You can rebuild trust. You just have to do the right thing.” (24:41) – Jimmy Wales (crediting Frances Frei)

• On optimism for the internet:
  “Just the fact that you’re able to learn anything you want to know and meet people from all around the world…is still just as magical as it ever was.” (29:46) – Jimmy Wales

Important Timestamps

• 03:18 — Jimmy Wales joins the conversation
• 04:11 — On the decline of trust in society
• 06:28 — Why Wales thought a crowdsourced encyclopedia could work
• 07:58 — The generosity of online communities
• 10:36 — Why Wikipedia chose the nonprofit model
• 12:19 — First principle: Make it personal
• 15:14 — Second principle: Purpose
• 18:57 — On civility and positive organizational culture
• 20:19 — Staying independent and the limits of organizational advocacy
• 22:58 — Navigating trust in consumer-facing decisions
• 23:47 — Transparency and crisis communication
• 25:08 — Effects of AI on information, relevance of Wikipedia
• 28:21 — Distinctions between Wikipedia and social media platforms
• 29:46 — Wales’ enduring optimism about the internet’s potential

Structure of the Conversation

• Introductions and context setting (00:55–03:18)
• The challenge and importance of organizational trust (03:18–05:50)
• How Wikipedia built trust (05:50–07:47)
• The motivation for user-generated contributions (07:47–10:29)
• The role of Wikipedia’s nonprofit model (10:29–12:05)
• The seven rules of trust, with deep dives into each principle (12:05–25:08)
• Trust dilemmas in today’s business landscape (25:08–23:29)
• Wikipedia’s approach to transparency and learning from mistakes (23:29–25:08)
• AI’s effect on Wikipedia and information sharing (25:08–27:53)
• Crowdsourcing: Wikipedia vs. social platforms (27:53–29:43)
• Closing thoughts on optimism and the internet (29:43–30:33)

Final Takeaway

Jimmy Wales provides a compelling blueprint for how organizations—from global knowledge platforms to everyday businesses—can intentionally build and sustain trust. He emphasizes clarity of purpose, transparency, respect, and genuinely putting users and contributors first. While the digital world continues to face challenges around misinformation and toxicity, Wales’ cautious optimism and enduring faith in human goodwill offer hope—and a pragmatic roadmap—for leaders aiming to create organizations, and internet spaces, that truly last.