How To Keep Love Alive After 16+ Years — Alyssa Nobriga On Real Intimacy | EP 98

Summary

Podcast Summary: Healing + Human Potential Episode: How To Keep Love Alive After 16+ Years — Alyssa Nobriga On Real Intimacy | EP 98
Release Date: July 22, 2025
Host: Alyssa Nobriga
Guest: Charlie Travers

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Introduction

In Episode 98 of Healing + Human Potential, Alyssa Nobriga engages in a profound conversation with her friend and interviewer, Charlie Travers. The episode delves into the intricacies of maintaining love and intimacy in long-term relationships, drawing from Alyssa’s 16-year marriage with her husband, Emilio. They explore effective communication strategies, emotional safety, conflict resolution, and the continuous nurturing required to keep the spark alive.

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Understanding Communication in Relationships

Alyssa emphasizes the importance of genuine communication, stating, “Most people think they're communicating and they're not” (00:00). She underscores that communication is the foundation of a healthy relationship, essential for creating emotional safety and deepening intimacy.

Key Points:

• Single-Topic Focus: Avoid bringing up multiple issues simultaneously to prevent overwhelming the conversation (01:48).
• Reflective Listening: Mirroring what your partner is saying and understanding the underlying emotions can reduce defensiveness and foster connection (03:19).
• Self-Regulation: It's crucial to manage your own emotions before engaging in difficult conversations. Taking a pause or a short walk can help maintain composure (03:54).

Notable Quote:

“Most people think they're communicating and they're not. And I think that one of the things that dampens a relationship is not knowing how to communicate.” — Alyssa Nobriga (01:48)

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Healthy Conflict Resolution

Alyssa and Charlie discuss strategies to navigate conflicts without escalation. Alyssa shares her approach to handling anger and resentment, advocating for expressing emotions healthily and constructively.

Key Points:

• Express Anger Constructively: Allowing anger without directing it at the partner helps in processing emotions without causing harm (00:00).
• Avoiding “Bed Angry” Mentality: If both partners are dysregulated, continuing the conversation only worsens the situation. Instead, one partner should remain calm to de-escalate (03:54).
• Use of “I” Statements: Taking personal responsibility by using statements like “I feel” instead of “You make me feel” fosters accountability and reduces blame (06:36).

Notable Quote:

“I care about us and I want to make sure that we're moving in a direction that actually is productive.” — Alyssa Nobriga (04:48)

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Emotional Safety and Intimacy

The conversation highlights the significance of emotional safety in fostering deep connections and maintaining intimacy over the years.

Key Points:

• Vulnerability: Sharing fears and insecurities willingly can strengthen the bond, provided the partner responds with compassion (14:29).
• Understanding Triggers: Recognizing and addressing personal triggers, such as feelings of unworthiness, can prevent them from undermining the relationship (20:04).
• Mirroring Needs: Alyssa explains how her and Emilio’s differing needs (e.g., physical intimacy vs. emotional safety) are balanced through open communication and mutual respect (38:31).

Notable Quote:

“We attract each other’s patterns because every person that is in your life is mirroring something back to you.” — Alyssa Nobriga (21:15)

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Maintaining the Spark in Long-Term Relationships

Alyssa shares practical tools and philosophies that have helped sustain her relationship’s vibrancy and intimacy over 16 years.

Key Points:

• Growth Orientation: Continuously evolving as individuals and as a couple keeps the relationship dynamic and prevents stagnation (48:47).
• Shared Values: Identifying and nurturing shared values like connection, love, truth, service, and growth provides a strong foundation (56:58).
• Sexual Intimacy: Open communication about sexual desires and embracing each other’s needs play a crucial role in keeping the physical aspect of the relationship fulfilling (51:07).

Notable Quote:

“The more compassionate we are with our protection and our defense mechanisms, the easier it is.” — Alyssa Nobriga (27:50)

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Navigating Changes and Personal Growth

The episode explores how personal development and healing contribute to the longevity and health of a relationship.

Key Points:

• Personal Healing: Alyssa discusses her journey of embracing her unworthiness and how it paradoxically leads to embodying wholeness (20:18).
• Evolving Together: As individuals grow, their relationships must adapt. Alyssa emphasizes that partners should support each other’s growth rather than attempt to change one another (50:41).
• Handling Misalignment in Values: When core values shift, honest communication and willingness to adapt are necessary to maintain compatibility or gracefully part ways (58:33).

Notable Quote:

“The power is in us, not the other person.” — Alyssa Nobriga (00:00)

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Practical Tools for Relationship Maintenance

Alyssa provides actionable tools and practices for listeners to implement in their own relationships.

Key Points:

• Rupture Rituals: Naming conflicts and owning individual parts of the dispute can help in repairing and moving forward (28:38).
• Growth Activities: Engaging in activities that push personal and relational boundaries, such as retreats or learning new skills together, keeps the relationship fresh (48:47).
• Continuous Communication: Regular, honest conversations about needs, triggers, and desires prevent resentment from building and keep the connection strong (44:22).

Notable Quote:

“When you do the work you've done, you just clearly have. You know, it's just so clear and you love it.” — Charlie Travers (27:12)

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Conclusion

Alyssa Nobriga and Charlie Travers provide a comprehensive exploration of sustaining love and intimacy in long-term relationships. By emphasizing authentic communication, emotional safety, personal growth, and continuous nurturing, they offer valuable insights and practical strategies for listeners aspiring to deepen their connections and keep the spark alive over the years. Their candid discussion serves as a roadmap for building resilient, loving, and fulfilling partnerships.

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Additional Resources

For those interested in further developing their relationship skills, Alyssa recommends engaging in personal development work and couples therapy or coaching to cultivate the necessary tools and support systems for long-term relational success.

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Thank you for listening to Healing + Human Potential. To support the podcast, consider following on Apple or Spotify, and share your reviews to help others discover these transformative conversations.

Transcript

[A]

Most people think they're communicating and they're not. When we are not speaking our truth, that's going to build and be felt. And what kills the spark is blame, criticism, resentment, pushing things down. If you're angry, it just means you care. You can express that anger, not at somebody, but your anger is allowed. Having healthy ways to express that, allowing the energy to come up and out, all of it's welcome. And as you say yes to it, ironically, it softens. In the beginning of this work, you're overly talking to your partner, thinking that they need to change so that you're okay. You're trying to control them. You can't change somebody. They have to want it. The power is in us, not in the other person. When I've really welcomed my unworthiness, finally just felt it fully, it was like, wow, no wonder I didn't feel whole. I wasn't embracing a part of me. And ironically, through unworthiness, I embody wholeness. The very thing that I'm trying to run away from holds the key to what I deeply desire. Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast. Today we're going to do something a little different. So my friend Charlie Travers is interviewing me where we're going to talk about one of the most common challenges in relationship communication. So we're going to explore what healthy communication looks like, the kind that really creates emotional safety, deepens intimacy, and helps you feel truly connected. You'll also learn how to move through conflict without spiraling, how to repair after rupture, and stay grounded during hard conversations so that you can learn to express your needs without blame or shutdown. And then I'll share with you some of the tools that have supported my 16 year relationship with my husband Emilio, and how our earlier patterns shaped the way that we show up to lead and love. It is a good one. I hope you enjoy it.

[B]

Okay, Mrs. Expert, I want to go into communication on this episode. Can you just dive into, first of all, what even is communication? Communication. Why is it so potent and important to a successful relationship?

[A]

I think most people think they're communicating and they're not. And I think that one of the things that dampens a relationship is not knowing how to communicate. So it's the foundation. Safety is the foundation. So is knowing how to communicate. So some I'll share some practical principles just for people to be like, oh, these are some things I can apply or deepen because sometimes we may hear it, but am I really living it? So one thing to note is not to bring up Multiple things at once. Once. So really focus on one topic at a time. So if you're going to communicate about something, stay focused on it. Because it could be like, oh, all the years prior, like, these are all the other things I'm mad at you for. So, like, really stay clear around one thing. Reflecting to the person what you're hearing inside of them isn't necessarily. It's really powerful because it helps drop defense. It helps somebody feel heard. It drops them into their heart. But reflect what you're hearing and then reflect what's happening underneath what they're saying. Okay, so for example, like, if I were really stressed out and Emilio, my husband, is judging me, like, you are really stressed out, that's gonna be even more stressful for me. And I may start to blame him back if I'm unconscious, versus if he's dropping in to say, oh, I can see underneath her stress, she's scared. And he meets me and just creating safety, it's gonna help soften me. And I'm gonna actually lean into him because he's modeling the safety that I wasn't able to create for myself. Being rushed or being busy or whatever, really just being scared as that safety with him inviting that space. I'm going to lean into him. I'm going to create that for myself as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So notice the conversation that's happening under the conversation. And if you can't, you can even just say, let's take a pause. Or what is coming up for you? What are you feeling right now? Or self reflect, what am I feeling right now? So we're not staying in the surface level communication. We're really getting to the heart of what's coming up for both of us. Regulating yourself before relating. So learning how to regulate our own system before being in conversation about something. Sometimes people will say, don't go to bed bed without coming to resolution. I don't believe that. I'm like, go to bed, go to bed angry. If you're both dysregulated, if you want.

[B]

A shitty night's sleep and to have an absolute meltdown, then do that.

[A]

Exactly. It's like if you're continuing the conversation, neither of you are regulated and it's just getting worse. At least one of you has to be resourced. So some part of your prefrontal cortex, at least one of you needs to be on that. Otherwise you're going into defense and battle.

[B]

And the communication, nothing good is going to come from that.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I've direct experience. Experienced.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Convictedly say that. Yeah, Never works.

[A]

No. And so, like, get a good night's sleep. And what I would recommend is saying I'm going to take care of myself and maybe go on a 10 minute walk and I'll come back. I need to make. It's like I care about us and I want to make sure that we're moving in a direction that actually is productive. And I notice that I'm in defense. And then go on a walk, move your body, whatever you need to do to regulate, and then come back to the conversation. But let your partner know when you're going to come back because it could trigger their abandonment stuff. If it's 10 minutes, if it's a day, just let them know when you'll address it again.

[B]

Because a lot of people, I've done this as well from a very unconscious place when I was younger is sulk as well. When you don't quite know how to communicate, they're not reading your mind like you want them to. And so you go into shutdown, which I rarely ever do anymore. I've done it for the first time recently. For the first time in probably a couple of years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's gnarly. And you're like, oh, I'm such a child right now.

[A]

And it was modeled too.

[B]

It was. Exactly. It's just like, well, if you're not getting your needs met, if you're not. He's not understanding you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No matter what you're saying, then it's like, I'm gonna. I'm going to shut down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm going to. It's a manipulative tactic.

[A]

Passive aggressive.

[B]

Passive aggressive. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We don't want to do that.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, and it's being compassionate with ourselves. When we have protector parts like it, it makes sense. And I think one of the things Emilio does really well is he will choose being loving over being right. And if you think about it like when there's. When there's a. When there's a disrupt, like there's a rupture, most of the time, people. The unconscious agreement is whoever can prove that they're right faster wins, you know, so funny. But it's not. It's not even like that. Even if you win, quote unquote, the fight or whatever it may be, you're not actually winning because you are. That's just righteousness. You don't actually feel the connection that you deeply desire, which is your actual.

[B]

Deeper truth is you just want connection. But our egos get in the way and it becomes about being right. Which totally is not what we want.

[A]

That's right. So right doesn't win. Right. And so it's like, oh, can I drop into being loving? And Emilio does this really well, where he will apologize for what's true for him in that moment. So he might say, I'm sorry that you're hurt. He's not saying. Maybe what he said still feels true for him, but he's like, I'm sorry that that hurt you in that. Or I'm sorry that you're reacting that way, or I'm sorry that you're feeling touched by that. But so he'll apologize also very quickly around something that's true for him as a way to create connection. He does that really well.

[B]

Aw, bless him.

[A]

I know I'm. And it softens me every time you listening up, man. Amelia, it is beautiful.

[B]

It's beautiful.

[A]

And I think what he says is that it helps when I. And he says something I do well is not to blame. So taking personal responsibility by using I statements instead of you made me feel this way. It's like when you said that I. The story I made that mean was that I'm not important to you. It's speaking that vulnerable truth. You could also say if you don't know where to go with it. Something that I really love from Gay and Katie Hendricks are microscopic truths where you can say, when you said that I noticed I had butterflies in my stomach, or I noticed I'm nervous to share this with you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So like, the sentence setting is important. Getting that context and permission so that you can really be present if it's a challenging conversation. But even speaking microscopically to let somebody in vulnerably into what your inner experience.

[B]

Exact experience with the sensations and everything.

[A]

And even if you don't know where you're going with it can be really healing and connected. Because really we all want connection more than being right. The other thing that I would say is sharing feedback one at a time. So sometimes if you're hearing feedback from.

[B]

Someone, don't do that. Like bomb. Bomb. Like bombarding.

[A]

Yeah. And it's so sweet. Sweet. It's. It's innocent. It's like a defense. And just to really hear somebody's feedback, digest it. And then when you want to share, give it some space before sharing the next one. Otherwise it's like this match of.

[B]

And it's too much them to take in and actually digest because it's lots coming in at once. That's fast.

[A]

That's right. And so understand, like what's Underneath what they're trying to say, connect with the emotion. Because even if you just mirror that emotion, to say I really get that this is hurting you. I think is really powerful. Speaking I languages, just really taking responsibility. Honestly, that is one of the sexiest things you can do in any relationship.

[B]

Is to give me a little demo.

[A]

Of what you take personal responsibility. It's like I noticed when you said that my. My wound around feeling like you need me came up and so. Or I noticed that I was triggered when you said that because it brought up my stuff around my mom. So I'm sharing. Yes. It was in relationship, but I'm sharing what my experience was with him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So instead of being like you made me feel that I'm like, oh, this is what's up for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I care about you to be vulnerable, to share. And I want to join in this experience. But I'm not making you responsible for the experience.

[B]

Totally. How are you at being needy?

[A]

I have a whole thing around you. Okay. So I grew up with the misunderstanding that I was like the parentified child where I thought that I was responsible for my parents needs. Specifically my mom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that was all my doing. And I've continued to play that out. Becoming a therapist and helping people and not realizing I have choice to either do that or not. Even though if I can help doesn't mean I need to help. So sometimes in the past I've abandoned my own needs to help others. And so part of this about rewiring it is seeing that I do have choice. I don't need to support. They have all their inner resources the same way that my mom had all her inner resources when I was younger. But I wasn't seeing that at the time. So fun dynamic to share. So growing up I saw my. I felt responsible. This is my mom's an angel. And I felt responsible. I have an aversion to needs. Right. And so I quote unquote, marry a man that has no needs. We all have needs. Right. And so. But it felt safer having somebody that didn't express their needs. And so part of the work has been to create space for him to have his needs. And for me it's interesting. Doesn't come up so much with me and Emilio as much anymore. Yes. I attracted somebody from the other side of the pendulum that overly responsible, not responsible at all. But it does show up with me and team where I. I feel like I create dependency on me unconsciously so that I'm needed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do I get for that? I Get to be in control. I get to have a. Which the fear is. Then it won't work out if I'm not a part of it.

[B]

Meaning you might be. You're creating an indispensable role for yourself.

[A]

There's an unconscious belief that the business won't succeed if other people lead it.

[B]

I see.

[A]

And there's more for me to explore for sure. Around that.

[B]

We'll go into it more another time. But I will just touch on this one now. What's your story if you don't provide value? Like how. Who do you be and how do you feel within Alyssa, if you don't actually always bring such high value?

[A]

What's your fear?

[B]

If you.

[A]

I think I'm pretty direct and I think I'm pretty to the point. So I think of it as a way to. It's what I would want somebody to just save time for me. But of course there's some fear and vulnerability underneath it. What do I fear would happen if I didn't provide value? That I wouldn't.

[B]

Would you not be as worthy or.

[A]

Like special comes up. Yeah. That I wouldn't be helpful or special?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

If I'm not helpful, I think I.

[B]

Just want to be special, guys. We all just want to be special.

[A]

And we are special. Yeah. And there's like two parts of it. One part feels like comes from a bit of like this is the way that I give love in the world because I know I can help and I genuinely enjoy it. And the other part feels like it's a strategy for connection and for feeling valuable.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing that.

[A]

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[B]

Do you ever get really exposed in your romantic relationship and you're like full little girl, like messy and ugly cry and oh God.

[A]

Because that's to me, I mean that's the real. That's such depth and rich. So rich to really let somebody in in the depths. I do that with friends and I do that with Emilio. All of the. It feels like such a privilege to have that space and to have him hold that space.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think we know how to navigate it well. That's why with sharing, the communication.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can call them principles. It sets it up for more deep.

[B]

Connection, which is ultimately all that. The whole point of why we're in these relationships is to continually deepen and get to know ourselves through the dynamic and to heal our triggers.

[A]

That's right. And to express greater love and connection. And I'm just thinking about, you know, that's the intention is love and then yet we can get in some kind of a disconnect and have need repair. And then that's oftentimes where protection comes in. We've got defense mechanisms.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So the intention of connection and love can be there, but if we don't feel safe, then all of these protection parts and patterns show up. I think when that comes up, because I think we're all interested in connection, and yet what blocks that connection is part of the conversation. And I know earlier you were talking about how do you keep that spark alive. Yeah.

[B]

That's a whole. I have many questions.

[A]

Okay. But I kind of think that they go together, because in my mind, I'm thinking what kills the spark is really blame, criticism, resentment, pushing things down. In our relationship, we will actively have conversations where we don't let things build. I wasn't going to say clearing conversations because we don't do that as much, but where we will hold space to present something that comes up.

[B]

Yeah. What does that look like for you? Because you're 16 years in. So for people that are new in relationships, there's going to be a lot more heavy lifting at the front end. There's going to be a lot of clearing conversations.

[A]

Well, there's like, the onboarding of any new relationship where it's like, what's important to you? What's important to me?

[B]

What are you saying? Yeah.

[A]

And there's some bumpy parts and some oxytocin. So it's a mixed bag of things. Yeah.

[B]

Mixed bag of nuts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So 16 years in, though, then, what's that like? What does come up for you guys? Or are you just pretty much always happy and sparky?

[A]

There's genuine connection and love in the foundation of that and that bank account. We make sure that it stays full, and if it doesn't, we feed it so that we hold it differently. I think in for a while, Emilio had a tighter frame around it, and when we were neglecting the relationship, he'd wave the flag of like, it needs tending to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And mine was a little wider.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then we flopped. But also connection means something different for us.

[B]

What do you mean when you flopped?

[A]

So then I started holding the frame tighter, and then he was loosening it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But also the ways that he feels love is different than the ways that I feel love. And so there's so many places we're gonna go because I'm like, oh, it opened a bunch of can of worms. I do want to say, and we'll talk back about intimacy and keeping the spark alive and things, but I do want to say that when we have resentment, when we are not speaking our truth, that's going to build and be felt and live parallel lives and then.

[B]

Stunt the connection and the intimacy and the spark 100%.

[A]

And if you don't speak about it, you're going to feel it like kids are going to feel it. If, you know, in the. And when kids are younger, you know, when our kids were younger, it's a lot more challenging. And so I have compassion. But it's really important to keep dating and to keep nurturing that because as the relationship is strong, the kids are going to be a lot stronger. And a lot of the time, it used to be that kids first. For example, I think my parents generation was kids first. And now we're learning. I think more people are saying, oh, the relationship first. And I would say self first and then the relationship and then the family. Because as you're good, your relationship is better and as a relationship is solid, then the kids are reflection of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so making sure that you're tending to yourself, tending to the relationship, nurturing it and understanding what fills your cup and your partner's cup. So not pushing things under, speaking vulnerably and honestly. Right. Not from the defense.

[B]

It's really hard for a lot of people to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're well versed in it. But I do just want to touch on that for a second. For those at home that actually are very new to like high level of communication or wanting to increase and improve it or wanting to. To get more vulnerable, but it's sticky. You've obviously been through that and are on the other side of it right now. But what would you say to those that are just like, I really want to create more connection in my relationships via communication, but it terrifies me because I don't want to get rejected or be too much.

[A]

I would start that exactly saying that. Okay, if you feel safe enough, if this partner or this person, even if it's a friend to say, I notice I get really scared to be vulnerable and I want to hide parts of myself, but I want to lean in to sharing that with you. Are you open to it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, God, what a privilege. I would lean in. Please tell me I'll be like, I love you. Exactly.

[B]

But. And it's so funny how on the receiving end, when someone else does that to me, I just want to bring them in even more. But when it's me doing that, there's a story. And I know many people have this because I've spoken to them about it of like the other way around. Are they going to not find it so cute? But for me, like, give it to me or I want to know. All of you. Give me your tears. Give me your. All of it. And I truly cherish it.

[A]

Yeah, me too.

[B]

But the other way around, it's like, oh, can they hold me in that? Can they actually not turn away when I give all of me?

[A]

Yeah. And then can I not turn away when I presence all of me?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And as I welcome for me, when I've really welcomed my unworthiness, which is a core wound that I just was. I filtered all of life through for a really long time. I wasn't successful enough. I wasn't this enough. There's a lot of comparison. And when I finally stopped running from it and just felt fully, it was like, wow, no wonder I didn't feel whole. I. I wasn't embracing a part of me.

[B]

Well, you were separating aspects of yourself so you couldn't feel whole because you were compartmentalizing.

[A]

Exactly. And ironically, through unworthiness, I embody wholeness. Right. It's like the very thing that I'm trying to run away from holds the key to what I deeply desire.

[B]

I know, it's fascinating.

[A]

And so I just keep coming back to that. But with Emilio, when I first met him, it was really beautiful because I did feel so safe in his presence. And I could share and do it in a. You can bite size it, share little parts. But he was so safe that I got to love myself even more through him loving me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I didn't make that his job or requirement, but it was just a byproduct. It was a byproduct.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And an invitation for me to also learn to love myself the way that I was experiencing him. Love me.

[B]

Yep. I know you didn't put that on Emilio to do that, but it was a byproduct. That does indicate though, that in the safer environments, even though it's a self, it's an inner job and it's our responsibility, it is far easier to heal quicker if we are going to choose a safe partner. No, no, no, no. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's that then.

[A]

Well, because.

[B]

Great, tell me. I'd love to learn.

[A]

Every person that is in your life is mirroring something, a pattern back to you. And so if I start with myself, then I'm not going to make it their job and I'll probably receive it easier. But if I'm saying more people have found God through addiction and challenges than through. Than through. You know, it's like those challenges Are the. And the. The people that.

[B]

The triggers are the treasures, and that's.

[A]

What guides us back. And maybe that person, not being a great example, is teaching me how I can do that for myself, because maybe I've outsourced just other people being there for my needs and them. And that not working is actually the.

[B]

Opportunity for you to then do it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Having said that, my opinion on it, which, again, I love you to disagree. If that's what comes up, is yes. And at the same time, if they're particularly unsafe and we haven't healed the wound, then that's going to perpetuate the wound. How are we supposed to feel safety within ourselves if we're actually being further triggered in a very unsafe environment? Or is that still.

[A]

When you say unsafe?

[B]

Not physically.

[A]

Okay. Or I think of abuse. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I would say remove yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if you remove yourself, perceiving something as unsafe but you're actually safe, it's just not a psychological safety.

[B]

Because I'm talking about. Yes, thank you for the distinction. Physical safety. Yes. All good. And they're not emotionally attuned. Attuned. Or they're freaking out or going into their avoidance.

[A]

Let's unpack this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So if my partner is not emotionally attuned. And I'm saying you need to be emotionally attuned. Yeah. For one, I attracted somebody that wasn't emotionally attuned because that mirrors a part of myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So rather than judging them for not being emotional, it's all ourselves. Then I. Then I would look at where am I not emotionally attuned to myself. And not to say that I. So then I would learn to start being attuned because maybe this was the perfect partner to show me where I'm not providing that to myself as I provide it to myself. Then I will no longer tolerate something that doesn't feel aligned for me because I'm feeling deeper nourishment by myself and I have compassion. Maybe they were never modeled. Maybe they're scared to go there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I don't have to judge them to take care of myself or to say, I'd like to be in relationship where I am mirrored.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. I'm with you on that then. So let's play out another scenario.

[A]

So, like. Yeah. So like somebody. Anything that I'm triggered in somebody else, part of my practice is to say, where is this mirroring to me an aspect of myself? How do I accept that part of me? How do I forgive judgments of that part of me?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I may need to have criticism or like a. An emotional charge about it. I want to express the fear or the judgment, and then I go into really accepting it and forgiving it inside myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I naturally. It shifts on the outside.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. That feels. I have to feel it. That feels. That feels resonant and true. Let's say if they are, I want to just cover. We're not going to be able to cover it all. But a few different examples for people that might be in this situation that I've been in in the past, if they're not at any threat, but the partner is very avoidant, which is perceived as unsafe.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or they don't have the emotional capacity and so they shut down and just off. They just dip.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And you're left feeling unsafe emotionally and totally exposed and unwanted. And that your information is not being received, which isn't your issue.

[A]

And that was probably there before you met that person.

[B]

Yes, definitely.

[A]

And so then it becomes my job to be with the insecurity and the anxiety inside of me because I attracted somebody that was avoidant. Because maybe then I seem too much to them. And that's the perfect mirror so that I can bring that feeling up and finally feel it, finally make friends with it, finally presents it, not indulge, not avoid. Presence it. As I integrate it into my nervous system through presence, I no longer am as triggered because I'm starting to digest all of the past. And then I'm just with what's happening here and now. And I can see compassionately that they're scared the same way I am. Mine is to attach and theirs is to run. And so it's just seeing what's the lesson, what's the opportunity. And you can get a really beautiful coach, therapist, friend to hold space as you're learning to be there for those parts of yourself. And as you do that, either you're in partnership with that same person and they don't get so scared because you're a bit more secure and they lean in a bit more and you start to have that relationship that you were wanting, or you just realize bless them and move on because it's not the type of relationship you want. And I do want to say, if people have kids, you know, I. I don't want, you know, it's not flippant or, you know, because it affects it.

[B]

It's not always as simple as that.

[A]

And. Well, it is that simple. But I know a lot of people, for protection reasons, want to take off, they want to leave. Especially the avoidance and so with kids, people are like, should I stay or should I go? And I would say as long as there's no abuse. If there's a trigger or a pattern coming up, my. The way that I deal with it is to work with what the trigger is directly knowing that as I work the trigger, I'm going to have more clarity and peace. And then from there I'll have an understanding of what's right for me and.

[B]

Whether I want to continue with them and speak to them or leave.

[A]

That's right. And as I change, it's like one person in the dance changes and the whole dance changes. So maybe it calls them forward. But if I don't heal that trigger inside me, I'm gonna take it somewhere else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if their kid is involved, then it's. There's a bit more. I mean I'm proactive. I'd rather do the work now and live freer. Younger and more open hearted and minded. And so using everyday life triggers for our freedom is the name of the game. And proactively do the work.

[B]

I love that about you. I. I just, I say every time but like, thank you for doing the work you've done. You just clearly have. You know, it's just so clear and you love it.

[A]

I know. I obsess about it. I want to share it with more people. And a lot of the times I've thought how do people do it without the tools? And then I realized addiction.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and there's different ways that we self medicate. There's nothing wrong with addiction. Those are the ways we've learned how to. To self medicate. And that's just the result. And so that there are ways to actually feel and question our thinking and start to wake up to a freedom that's already here that we are not awake to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that we can reprogram ways of being and actually create the connection that we really desire.

[B]

We're truly longing for.

[A]

Yeah. And it's in us. It's not in the other person. The power is in us, not the situation.

[B]

That's right. How many books are there? Becoming the one you are, the one you are the what you've been looking for. It's just right there in our faces. But it's so simple, but so not easy.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Especially when we're confronted with all of our defense. But I think in our patterns. But I think the more compassionate we are with our protection and our defense mechanisms, the easier it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so like if, if a rupture happens like, you're in the moment. There's like a little rupture ritual that they can do. So I would say name it, because oftentimes when we're in it, we can't see it. And so it's hard to see the picture when you're in the frame. Right. So. So it's just like, yeah, name it. It brings up the prefrontal cortex. You're no longer from your reptilian brain caught in it. And that could just sound like, oh, we're doing our dance right now. So you're like meta looking above it. You're like, oh, we're doing the thing right now.

[B]

We're in the thing.

[A]

We're in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so just naming it, which takes.

[B]

Some of the power away.

[A]

Right. And then you're seeing it, you're not identified with it, and then own it. And what that. And that can look like, you know what Emilio does really well, which is like owning whatever your part of it was like, I'm sorry, it can sound like this. I don't like the way that I. That I expressed my needs like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you own your part. Whatever part is true for you. It's not saying I did something wrong. It's like, I didn't like the way I talked to you, or I'm sorry that that, that hurt you. So just owning it and then repairing it and it just starting over. It's like, can we try that again? So it's just name it, own it, repair it. It's just really simple. But it's not about if challenges come up, they're going to come up, but do them to grow closer together. Can you actually repair quicker by trying again and keeping your heart open and being compassionate with yourself?

[B]

Which I, I love all of that. And that's easier to do when it's not ridiculously heightened or if you've had done a lot of work or you've got a lot of the tools, or you've a well versed in communication or confident around it. For those that are not, and they are like firing at each other, shouting or incredibly triggered, and they're convinced that they are right and they haven't got to the point yet where they're going to put connection over righteousness, because that's a new concept for them that maybe just are not awareness around it yet. In that context, when your two people are really wound up, then what? Because one person's convinced that you're wrong and the other one's like, you're not.

[A]

In Your patterns, you're in your defenses. And that's what I'm saying. Take space. You need to regulate yourself before you relate.

[B]

Don't even try connecting.

[A]

You can say, I know we're both triggered right now, and I care about our relationship enough to not keep triggering each other. Let's take whatever time you need and come back at another space. Really, if you're angry, it just means you care. Obviously, it also means a boundary has been crossed. But you can express that anger not at somebody, but your anger is allowed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so having healthy ways to express that anger could be through journal writing, could be through hitting a pillow, allowing the energy to come up and out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anger is a feeling. Violence. Violence is a behavior. And your anger, not at somebody. But anger as an energy, as an emotion, just like any other.

[B]

It's very natural.

[A]

It's like tears and laughter, sadness, grief, joy. All of it's welcome. And as you say yes to it, ironically, it softens, it settles.

[B]

Like anything.

[A]

Like everything.

[B]

Speak into it.

[A]

Like everything. Yeah.

[B]

Something you had said a few minutes ago that I wanted to touch on is how not to take it personally when that's happening.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because naturally our egos are immediately offended.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For a lot of people. So what's also a good way of looking at within this communication and, you know, repairing from the rupture of not identifying so heavily with taking it personally and coming together well.

[A]

Okay. This is great, because I have one dynamic that I get triggered by with Emilia, and this is very common with relationships, is power dynamics. Power over, power under. Okay. And so if I. Because I have a pattern of over responsibility, of, like, taking ownership if he's unhappy, my subconscious belief is that I did something wrong.

[B]

I did something wrong.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So then I have the same.

[A]

And so I have to catch that so that I don't unconsciously go into that narrative.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it would benefit him for me to do that, to think I'm the problem, like I did something wrong and it's not. But I know deep down that I can participate and influence Emilio, but I'm not responsible for his experience, his inner experience. So what's helpful is to know each other's patterns. What are your core wounds and what makes you feel loved. So both are important so that you're not unconsciously stepping on a landmine. And you can know. Here's how our puzzle pieces are connecting. So you not feeling in important triggers back to when you didn't feel important with your dad. I happen to be triggering it, but I can hold Space for you as you tend to your little one and make sure that he feels important from you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I can also show up as a loving partner because I am emotionally available and attuned to really love on his little boy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But he needs to learn how to do that inside of himself as well as well. Yeah, exactly. First and then I can meet him in that. Because I have tried to love that little, little one.

[B]

And no matter how much you give that, if it's not come from him, it's just.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah. It's like if someone told me something about my weight or something or anything and I didn't believe it. It doesn't matter. You could thousand of you could say to me like, yeah, you look gorgeous when you're that voluptuous and you're like, you just have to feel it from within. The triggers that you, when you expressed about Emilio, for instance, if there's something coming from a father wound or something from when you were younger, that's still playing out, let's say that that has been, which is most things. Okay, so let's say that you didn't have that trigger when you were younger. Someone didn't have those triggers. They had a very loving experience. The if someone had a very, very healthy, totally loved by their parents, there really wasn't much abandonment going on. There was just a lot of love, a lot of safety, a lot of healthiness and attunement and attunement from the get go. So they don't really have triggers in that department. Now they enter a relationship without any backlog. But now the relationship, the partner is doing X, Y and Z. That's driving that person nuts or isn't really cool or is unsafe or abandons them, then what? Because obviously we're talking from a place of re triggering something that's already there. If the thing is not already there, then what happens? Is it still a thing but it's just not got as much weight or is it doesn't actually make you feel anything because there's no trigger.

[A]

Even if you had the perfect parents, they couldn't be there for all your needs.

[B]

Yeah. And so it's impossible.

[A]

It's impossible. It's based on the child's perception. So even if the parents were very loving and accepting, but they didn't perceive that, then there's a narrative and a story. And this is in my eyes Earth School here to help learn to evolve in love and grow and heal. And so that's part of their curriculum. And so that's how I hold it. At least so. And as a therap former therapist, I'm not working as a therapist anymore. But as people would come in and say I had a great childhood, there was nothing wrong. That's a red flag. You know, our parents are human.

[B]

I've never had anyone say that we are human.

[A]

That's avoidance. And so. And you could have had a really healthy family system. But healthy means I can see my parents flaws and their gifts. It's holding both.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if somebody had a healthier childhood, then whatever got triggered from the past is lighter. There's less weight. The more work we do now to tend to this stuff that has been suppressed, there's a thawing out. So it does dry out. And then it's just the present moment experience. It's not just activating all of our unmet needs that repressed.

[B]

So it still hurts. It's just not got the backlog until it doesn't.

[A]

And then until it doesn't, it doesn't.

[B]

Well, do you think. Do you arrive? I mean, I've asked you this before, but I want to, I want other people to also know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Plus I love asking many times because it's really hopeful for me. Is there a point where something's happening and it literally. And it's not cool, but it does not trigger you. Or let's say Emilio. Let's say Emilio goes out tonight and starts being leaky. Like really flirty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you've done a lot of inner work to come to a safety within yourself. What, how would you. Would you still be activated? Like what would you.

[A]

I might be, but I would allow the activation. So I remember one time years ago when I was getting licensed as a somatic psychotherapist and I was learning about anger and I was like, I don't think I've ever felt my anger. I jumped to sadness underneath it.

[B]

Yeah. That's what I do.

[A]

And because I didn't see anger as safe and I didn't have healthy models of that growing up and I saw more violence and so I learned to really allow anger to come up. For the first time. I felt this surge of energy from my legs all the way up like a wave, a tidal wave. And I just was in presence feeling it and I felt, I was wondering, I was like, no wonder people love this. This is powerful. This is way better than jumping to sadness. And don't get addicted there. Like we go there so but we don't live there. I think some people think of anger because it worked in their family system.

[B]

And serving something or.

[A]

And they're trying to use it to protect by getting control and getting what they want. That wasn't my experience, but just because I know different people are listening. So allowing the anger, I would allow the anger fully and I would speak my boundary. In truth, to say my boundary is that I. To stay in connection with you and not abandon myself. This is what I need. But I'm allowing the feeling of anger. I'm allowing the pain or the hurt or the grief.

[B]

Taking ownership over it. Allowing it, but still communicating what works.

[A]

For me and what doesn't. Yeah, but it's. It's. It's not. Yeah. Through control and manipulation.

[B]

Yeah. Love.

[A]

Yeah. And another one I will share because I know also just the spark alive. And then you're asking me to be a bit more vulnerable about edges that I found in my marriage. And I. Another one came up. So one way that Emilio. And this is. This is stereotypical but common for men. So one of the things that changed the game for me was learning that the way that women feel and value safety, men feel and value physical intimacy. So for women, safety is really important, whereas physical intimacy is really valuable for men. And I didn't hold them in the same way. I used to think, and I think a lot of the times for me, it was like, oh, I want to talk and then touch. And I think sometimes we think, oh, this is the right order. It's like, have the salad and then the main meal. This is the way you do it. But for somebody else, they're like, have the main meal and then the salad. That's the way you do it. You touch and you create that connection that way. So I needed to drop my story of what was right and how you do things.

[B]

That's the big one.

[A]

Really hear what was important and what helps him feel loved. But it's not a binary. Like, I'm now obligated to do it his way or he's obligated to do it my way. It's about finding our desires in the middle.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So maybe it's talk and touch. Maybe it's about finding where our desires meet. So we're not doing it through obligation or binary. Thinking of it needs to be this way or that way. So it's like we can have the salad and the dinner together and just find again what's true for us. But physical intimacy is as important for men typically as safety is for women. As important.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't know that.

[A]

That blew my mind. I Didn't know it either.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that changed the game for me. And it's something that. But you know, we've been together 16 years. I've had my. My sex drive has gone through different waves with thyroid and being. And I had testosterone was like overly sexual. So there's been waves of it. But he genuinely feels loved through physical intimacy. And so there are also different ways that you can, you know, like a more erotic massage where whatever your truth are. Whatever your truth is to meet in the middle and find where it's both a yes for you so you don't have to self abandon and going and like continuing to grow our edges and be honest. And I think that that keeps the spark alive. I think, I think that's what helps. Just having a growth orientation and we've always just done therapy or coaching. I just highly recommend people proactively do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Rather than reactive.

[B]

So you mean like a maintenance and sustainable and prevention rather than when it's too late and then.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. Especially with young kids because the kids needs are, you know, take control. Like I got three under three and so it was just like an initiation. And so really making sure that you have. You're filling that bank account. You're. You're tending to yourself and to. To the relationship so then it doesn't.

[B]

Get pushed on the wall. Yeah, absolutely. I want to go into a little bit more of the keeping it alive and spicy and just a few different things that can work for humans.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Before we go on to that cycling back a little bit with the communication. Wanting to create intimacy through communication. And let's say we're not letting them fully in because we're scared that it's too much. I've had an ongoing inquiry as have a lot of people I've spoken to in how much to let them in. Like how much to share. Are we sharing just enough to solve the issue and to create intimacy. Are we literally giving. I mean, here's my heart on a platter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this is truly all of me. These are my insecurities. Now I'm afraid of this when I share this and just kind of reveal it all. How much to reveal?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had an experience a couple of years ago where I didn't reveal Philly the whole time and he was like give me all of you. And I was very nervous about that. I gave like 80, 90. But you're not having my entire dialogue right now of what's going on until one day I decided it, you know what? A few months In I'm just going to give you everything I'm thinking and feeling right now. Crazy insecurities, all of my wildness complete. And then that was pretty much the beginning of the end.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I have. I'm going to lean in anyway. But there will be a lot of people listening to this that also have the same fear of they've done that and the partner has pulled away. Talk to me about that.

[A]

What is giving? Give me all of. I would get clear with what the definition is because it could sound like dumping your inner experience.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or it could sound like blame or. And so there's a thing. And this is just understanding. What do we mean by giving all of me.

[B]

That's a great question because.

[A]

And I've done this with a friend. So Emilio and I have a. We talk about consciously complaining. So we have a saying. We say, can you hold? So if there's a part of me that is. Wants to be a victim and blame him, for example, I'll ask him. Set and setting is really important. The context is important. So I'll say if we're in an argument, I'll say, can you hold? And that's essentially code word to say, are you in a right place where you can hear my hamming up of my complainer without taking it personal. And that's an advanced skill.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if he says yes, then I'll ham up the one that wants like, you're the worst person in the world. You're making me feel this way. And I make you it to so exaggerated that it's funny that we both start laughing and it takes maybe 60 seconds because we're like, this is ridiculous.

[B]

This is ridiculous.

[A]

But I just want to be allowed. It just wants to be expressed. It doesn't have to take long. But if I'm staying in the story and I'm just drilling and dumping on.

[B]

Someone story really strongly and.

[A]

Or if I don't give context to what I'm doing and get permission, then that can be heavy and it can be a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where I remember one of my girlfriends was like, yeah, share it. I want to feel more of your vulnerability. So I forgot to ask context because that's what I do with Emilio. And then I just went into just blaming and fully sharing. And she's like, oh, damn. And I was like, oh, God, I'm sorry. I forgot that that's what I do with Emilio. Because we already have a prior commitment agreement. Yes. And so it's. It's understanding that these are parts of us from Our past that just want to be seen and allowed and expressed and then like played with. It doesn't have to be heavy, but they just want to come up and out. And honestly, when you just like fully, vulnerably and authentically express doesn't take that long. And then there's laughter is lightness. So. So even naming that it's a part of you, it's not the whole of you. You know, give it a name, a character that helps and then. But getting that permission is really important and it can create intimacy. But also just having knowing your partner's core wound is helpful because then you won't take it as personally.

[B]

Right. When you know it's just them thing.

[A]

It'S like, oh, I triggered that wound that's been in you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do I hold space and love you through this?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just easier when they're not blaming if they are blaming. Ideally there's context to do it in a conscious space.

[B]

Love that. As always, perfect answers. It's ridiculous consistency.

[A]

I just been committed in. And part of this is because I saw my parents. One of the things that they shared with me was that. That you know, that they wish they would have communicated more. Then I started communicating more and I found how to communicate. So it's not to me, it's less about how much, but it's more about how we do it and where it's coming from.

[B]

Quality, not quantity.

[A]

Yeah. And being honest and vulnerable and going to the root of it.

[B]

So the. Just to close that up with the honest and vulnerability and the too much question of like, well, how much is too much Giving all of.

[A]

Of you.

[B]

In that context, when I say giving all of ourselves, I mean revealing the entire thought process of an example would be I'm feeling this right now. I was really unslept. I'd been like awake for 12 days or something with my insomnia. I felt really tender, vulnerable, exposed, insecure and was scared about a bunch of things. And I let him in on that and then I went a layer deeper. And that's the part I mean is usually it would just be that of I'm feeling this. Isn't this the layer behind that was then. Now I'm afraid this is really unattractive and that you're going to leave me. And it was almost like revealing the real time, the entire honesty, not just an aspect or enough for him to understand. It literally felt like I'm giving you all of it in this moment. Is that dumping or is that for me, it felt Like, I'm doing this to really reveal myself and see if you'll stay and also to free myself.

[A]

See, this is a. This is a great distinction. So sometimes we will test our partner to say, is this too much? And will you stay?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so if it's coming from testing them and they can't hold, then you're like, then that was a protection mechanism to be like, good, you're out sooner, because I want somebody that can hold. But just notice where it comes from. Because sometimes it's a defense to be like, oh, is it, Is it too much? And then overshare. But if it's connected and if it's true for you and it's not coming from a defense and you share vulnerably and they don't meet you in that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then that's not your person. Because I know you want somebody that meets you in that. Yeah.

[B]

And holds and loves you in that really vulnerable part. That felt. That was one of the most vulnerable I felt was that piece of. And now I'm really worried this is unattractive.

[A]

Well, helps. Yes. Yes. And again, the medicine is us really embracing that part within ourselves. And we will be mirrored in partnership or we will attract. We won't put up with anything less than we're offering ourselves. So we will attract another relationship. And so I say, when you do feel safe, if it's coming from a clean place, share those vulnerabilities. But just watch that. It's not like a test to be like, can you hold?

[B]

I mean, I think it's a bit of both, honestly. And then often it's got a few different variants, variables in there going on, because that was a test, but it was also like, I want to free myself. You know, I don't want to be. I just want to.

[A]

This is.

[B]

This is where I'm at right now. Like, take it or leave it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Kind of a little bit of a liberation thing, too.

[A]

Yeah. But the real freedom is the way you meet yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, boom, that's. That's the work.

[B]

And then up with the good guys.

[A]

And I think just. Just speaking gender specific. I think that a lot of the times when guys want to be helpful and so when you're sharing something, I think giving context, I just want to be seen and held instead of helped. I think it's going to be really.

[B]

Supportive to give them a frame, framing it and then so they know how to respond.

[A]

Yeah. And this works for kids, too. It's like the same ways that we work within ourselves. Also work with kids. So. Because we all have an inner child. But it's like I really hear that you're scared. So mirroring that deep vulnerability. It's scary to share this with me. You don't even have to know what to say because sometimes people don't know what to say.

[B]

Wouldn't have a clue.

[A]

Yeah. And so then it's just about saying think. It's just joining in that connection of that vulnerability and intimacy. Love. And after that connection happens, maybe something practical wants to happen and be helpful. Or maybe that was all we were looking for is to be met and attuned in that depth.

[B]

Love. That final piece is. Let's go back to keeping the spark alive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You've mentioned a couple of the things that really keep it alive for those that are now like a few years into a relationship or 15 years or even 30 years. Because that. Yeah, let's. Let's go with like even longer. What are your absolutely key that you trust with your life of like guys, these are what really work for me. And I highly recommend you test it out for yourself.

[A]

I would say be in a growth orientation and a learning orientation to keep meeting your partner new because 16 years later, I'm a different person than the woman he married. And so staying awake to who they are in front of you keeps the mystery alive. I love personal development work and I love waking up and growing up. This is Ken Wilbur's frame. So we have shared values and interests, which is part of a. Not like I really recommend people have partners that you have shared values with. But we meet our edges and we know it's important to ourselves and to each other and we speak that. And I think, you know, we just went to a Tantra retreat to just explore edges or. I'll often do things that scare me if it's in the direction of a value. Something that helps me feel more free. Not that people have to do these different things. But it's like, what are your values and how do you keep at your edge? So it keeps it interesting and alive and fun and vulnerable.

[B]

So you keep yourself exciting. Like you're stretching so you're actually like loving on who you are. Of like, wow, I'm really. There's no stagnancy. And they're going to feel that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That bubbly energy.

[A]

And I do know. And I can hear somebody saying, well, I'm growing but my partner's not. And sometimes there are non negotiables that you have that you can speak to your partner and it will Call them forward or you'll evolve beyond them. And that's just nature of it. I know I did a lot of healing work with my mom and directly inside of myself. Not even with my mom, but around my core wounds with my mom. And then I was no longer a match for the relationship that I was in. And it didn't make sense to me at the time, but now I get it and it's okay. Sometimes that transforms and if it's a non negotiable for you, they could evolve with you and you just speak honestly. But it's not like I think in the beginning of. Of some of this work, you're like overly talking to your. Your partner, thinking that they need to change so that you're okay and you want them to grow with, but you're trying to control them. They have to want it. You can't change somebody.

[B]

It has to come from them.

[A]

And so we have to.

[B]

Otherwise it won't last.

[A]

It won't last. They won't feel accepted and we have to actually sit with our discomfort of them being where they are and really face what's actually true. And then actually it does evolve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the next intelligence step arises is whatever that is for us.

[B]

Love spiciness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're comfortable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I know you are sexually. Okay. So keeping the spark alive. We've done that emotionally. Yeah. Keeping the intimacy, the connection deepening. What about sexually keeping the spark alive for people that like the same sex over and over again and they're kind of like, we've done this for 16 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I wanna have a different experience, but I still want to be with you. I love you. You're my companion. But I'm getting kind of bored of that. Just speaking into. For those that are kind of that point.

[A]

Yeah. I would say speak honestly in your relationship about what your desires are, but the way that you do, that's really important. Yeah. Because if you say I'm bored, they're going to feel.

[B]

Coming into.

[A]

You're like, wow, how I. I desire feeling more. More adventure in our sex life. Like, what would do you have like opening the conversation in a way that feels exciting and playful rather than blaming and judgmental.

[B]

Yeah. Or putting them down and making them feel insecure around.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And I think people have different appetites and different desires. I feel incredibly sexually satisfied. And Emilio's much more. He likes edges and those edges keep growing and I'm like, well, I love him. And that feels like there's overlap for me. So I'll keep playing with him in those edges. Sometimes there's. There's healing to do in those edges, and I stay true to myself, so I'm not abandoning myself to please him. So I'll find where my yes meets his yes. Yeah. But, yeah, sometimes it's his healing, and other times it's about me learning to stay true to myself. But I love. I also love freedom. So freedom is on the other side of the edges.

[B]

I wanted to ask you about freedom.

[A]

I'll move towards wherever I feel stuck in service to experiencing greater freedom. And so if sexual expression is more important to Emilio in my eyes than it is to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so then I'll play with him in those worlds because I find where it's a desire and a truth for me.

[B]

And that can look like. You mean if you're opening up or whatever it is you decide to do.

[A]

Yeah. It could look like trying new things on. It could look like we're gonna go to Crazy Horse in Paris, which is a really fun, like, fancy burlesque thing. It could, like playing with learning, like an online course or learning things. It. It'll evolve and grow just the way that we have over the years. But everybody's going to have a different appetite.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But it's about how you communicate it. I think that's the most important part.

[B]

I can only even imagine the you and Emilio have. There's such vibrancy. And I also think this is, like, to do with you doing the inner work with yourselves. Like, it's a lot to do with that because you're so clear. You're a really good place within yourself. And so it's just. It radiates into your. Into your relationship. This does tie into the safety piece we touched on in the other episode. Having freedom and safety at the same time. When you want freedom, for instance, maybe you wanna. Do you wanna go and have a flirt? Like, I don't know what freedom is to you. Like, you want to be whatever it is. Are you making sure that it's run by Emilio first? Like it's within your agreement?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. We've. We've changed our agreement and talked about them over time. And so sometimes I remember there was a woman, a tantra teacher, Nicole de Don, who I went to. To lunch with, and she was like, open your energy. Get turned on by life, and then bring that to your marriage. And Emilio and I were like, back into your body. Yeah. We were like, should we try that? So we tried that. And I remember I sat at lunch with my Girlfriends. And I was like, let me open my energy. And I had a. A table of eight men just turn their heads at the same time. I was like, whoa. And I just felt like there was a. I almost felt like there was a power that I didn't know I had. And I was like, whoa, that's a gun. That's loaded. I don't know how to use it. Yeah. I was like, let me play with that. And I think if it's clean to me, like, I support. There's lots of different expressions of love and intimacy, and I support whatever's true for people. I just. In my marriage, we do integrity, we do agreements, we have honest conversations. And I think a lot of us are intuitive. We can feel when it's off regardless. And there's a healing opportunity in that, without shame and judgment. It's just like, does this work for me or not? So, yeah.

[B]

It's always the subtle things that we feel. It can be the tiniest micro thing in, like. Oh, that was out of integrity.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It was more of an acknowledgment to you of. This makes so much sense as to why you both come across so free and juicy, clean and integrous, but very bubbly and vivacious and. And sexy and, like, overflowing with this love. But yet you cycle it back into the container over and over again. And so. And I really noticed that it's like, you still have this, like, open and warm and. And just so alive. But it makes so much sense to me that the richness is in the union because you keep whatever's coming up instead of directing it into other men or humans. In that way, you keep it safe or not safe, but you keep it for your. That's right.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And so you filled up this dynamic over the years by pouring every little energy leak that could have gone, gone here or here to get that quick fix you actually put back in. And I noticed that so much like, you're one of the most alive couples I've ever seen in my life, especially for 16 years. It's incredible. It feels like you just met, like.

[A]

I mean, I'm turned on and in love with this man.

[B]

No, you exudes out of your entire body.

[A]

And I am in a lot of friendships where there's tantric communities, where there's a lot of different dynamics. And I do think that us. And it's just one expression of. But we. We do channel it back to our. To each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even if there is openness. But there would Be consensual openness. Yes.

[B]

It would always be talked about first if you give that energy. Yeah, I love that. Okay, final thing. Yeah. Shared values. Just because you mentioned values and we didn't really go on to it, I want to talk about shared values quickly because there's the non negotiables and the negotiables, but when people are finding compatibility with each other and they're at the beginning of a relationship or years in, but their values are changing and they're no longer aligning with their initial ones. Can you just speak into that a little bit around your thoughts on values?

[A]

Yeah. My top five values are connection, love, truth, service, and growth.

[B]

Gorgeous.

[A]

So I. Those are north stars for me. Took me a minute to get it because I was like, I love nature. I love friends. I was like, oh, connection and connection to a deeper truth. So I found my top five values and I expressed those in various areas of my life, including my relationship for me haven't changed in a while, actually in the last 15 years since I found them. But it can change and evolve. And I think just having open, honest conversations about what your shared values are, so you nurture that. So I'm more interested. I love growth, and so we play with that sexually, emotionally, physically, all of the spiritually, all of that. Yeah. And so we tend to into that. And that's what partly makes it work. And I do think having shared values is important to make you compatible and to do the work. But it can evolve. And I think if it does, just have honest communication, how you communicate it and be honest and truthful.

[B]

And do you believe that if you have a value that no longer is shared, where one has one value that's different to the other, how do you feel about that?

[A]

I don't think I need all of the same values. Yeah, I don't think you need like all five values. Emilio's is adventure, connection, and love or something. And those are his three. So I have less adventure in mind. I have the adventure with lots of friends. I love having a variety of friends and humans that I drop into. But he has more physical adventure. I can join him in that, but it doesn't need to be my core value. But we both value connection and love. And so we. We meet in the places that we over. And those are super important.

[B]

You meet in the most important ones, which is the main thing. If I'm hearing people say if they are in a relationship, but then they're core ones, there's one that doesn't align. What are your Thoughts on that.

[A]

I would see if there are ways that you could align, if there's a different definition and ways that you can connect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if not, I think, you know.

[B]

It'S probably ain't gonna work.

[A]

Yeah. Or it might be a deeper conversation about, you know, not to just say adventure, but or love. Like what does that actually mean to you and how does that show? Yeah, but it's show up in life. Life will show you and then it'll be a conversation.

[B]

Yeah. Love that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm gonna leave it there. I have endless questions.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And we're gonna, we're gonna do these, so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That was lovely. That's so fun.

[A]

It was lovely.

[B]

I love it. Yeah, it's great.

[A]

Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference. And if you're finding value in this podcast, a cost free way to support us is by following us. It does help us grow and we are, we are so grateful. Leave a review on Apple or Spotify, submit a screenshot of that and upload it to alyssamabriga.com podcast as a thank you gift, we will be sending you one of the most powerful tools that you can use on any area of your life to help you tap into your full potential so that you don't let fear hold you back from really stepping into your dreams. I have so much more magic I want to share with you and I cannot wait to do that soon. But for now, I just want to say thank you so much much for being an example of what it's like to live with an open heart and mind in the world.