A (4:52)

Powerful and. And what supported you in having the courage to let go of an old identity, to follow what's been true for you? Because I really hear this spiral. There's like a coming back, but with new insights.

B (5:03)

Yeah, I think so much of the inspiration really was that journey back to the inner child. And I think that once, you know, in. In the wellness world, there's a lot of kind of like psychology that's interwoven into wellness. A lot of pop psychology. We listen to wellness podcasts and there's therapists on and, you know, we're talking about mental health all the time. And I got really into parts work and internal family systems. Right where you're looking at all these different parts of you. And I realized that in order to. To build my business all these years and help people through herbalism and, and be so diligent about extracting so much usable information from my own struggles and like putting those nuggets out there for people to digest, I had to tap into this part of me that I call the manager who is just on all the time, and she's, you know, well spoken and she's making sure to. To get every single thing and never miss a detail and bullet point everything and make sure that everything is content. And she's very hardworking, but it's also quite exhausting in a way. And I think my inner child part that I had stuffed away so long ago when I kind of gave up that dream of music as a kid, she was just like, begging me to see her and have fun with her and play again. And I think when you ignore that part, it kind of comes out like she can start to rebel a little bit. And that lack of integration of that part of you that just wants to have fun and be creative and play can create its own set of issues until you stop and slow down and witness her. And so the further that I. The more I even became aware that that was a thing that maybe some of the ways that I was reacting or having really stressful moments was because I Was, you know, ignoring certain parts of myself. The more I got curious of like, how old is this part that's upset right now? Oh, that's my inner child. What she needs to be played with. That was kind of the thing that really gave me the courage to do it for her because I realized that I'm so much more whole when I, when I can be sure the manager and still run my company and do the things. But I can also tap into my inner child who really holds so much of my genius because I think for all of us, we were born knowing who we are and what we came here to do. If you look back at home videos of yourself as a child, that person, that like soul is so clear. Like we're like performing as kids or we're this, like we just know who we are and then slowly we put up armor to kind of perform and be who the world wants us to be. So it really is this journey of.

A (7:38)

Remembering and listening to all parts of you because I think a lot of us have learned to stuff those things away because. Or parts of ourselves because we thought it wouldn't be successful or it wouldn't be socially acceptable. Right. And so how do we slow down to listen to the wisdom inside of them? Because sometimes people, even with inner child work, they think they need to always parent the child. And yet there's a lot of wisdom that the child has for the adult. And when we abandon these parts of ourselves, that's what leads to burnout. And yet there's a way that we get to consciously be in leadership where we get all parts of ourselves are welcome on board, not necessarily driving the car, but welcome and integrated to be in our lives and having a place for the man manager, like you're saying in maybe doing quality control before something goes out, but not necessarily making business decisions or decisions for your career. Right.

B (8:27)

I like how you said not necessarily driving the car because I think that is a good metaphor for how I began to notice that these parts were out of sync, is that one or the other was driving in such an extreme that I was like, why is it that sometimes I'm so obsessed with work and so detail oriented to the point where like it's actually kind of annoying to myself and the people around me. And then other times I'm sort of self sabotaging or rebelling or eating a bunch of ice cream and not wanting to do anything and. And it's that it was, I was so not integrated in terms of this family of parts that one or the other was kind of like fighting through and running the show at any one time. So it was almost the search for me of like, I know that this isn't actually me. I'm not this person who wants to necessarily act in extremes like this, but I can see that it's making my life a lot more difficult, like, what needs to be seen here to. To kind of like keep this a little bit more even and level. And once I got curious about that, that's what led me to these answers.

A (9:25)

And I love that perspective because even then getting sick was feedback that something was being ignored inside of you. And so it was just a. A mirror to look deeper and that these parts, not, there's wisdom in all of them, there's nothing wrong with them, but if we listen to them, we don't judge them, we can extract the wisdom. So, for example, even procrastination, a lot of us judge that, but oftentimes we're telling ourselves what we should be doing. And the procrastinator is rebelling because it wants our freedom. And so instead of judging or identifying these parts, it's like, what are you here to teach me? What is important to you? So you can get behind yourself with a strategy that aligns with having all of the things you want, whether that's freedom and success. Right. And so how do I align with a strategy that can welcome both?

B (10:07)

Yeah, it's. That's so wise to never demonize any one part of yourself or any inclination, especially the procrastinator. I think it's so easy to beat ourselves up. But just remembering that, that I'm. I'm wanting to rebel against this or rest right now, even when I'm not supposed to for a reason. Maybe my body actually needs some rest and it just takes a while to build the muscle of self trust to be able to listen to that. Because I think our procrastinator comes out when we're not resting. And we're not resting because we're not trusting that we will get the thing done when it's the right time to, and we will come through for ourselves. And so like, that's one of the mantras that I like to say to myself now when I'm being a little bit too hard on myself is I can't wait to see what I do because I always come through for me. So then you get to be excited about like, oh, actually I can't wait to see how I handle this, because I know I'm going to get it done. But right now I'm Going to rest my eyes for an hour right now. I'm going to go sit by the water. And it's just, it's trusting that you have those signals for a reason.

A (11:04)

That's right. That's right. And I'm curious in terms of, for somebody though that might be at rock bottom, how, what would you say to them to be able to use those hard experiences as an initiation into the next version of themselves or a truer, more authentic version of themselves? You know, there's.

B (11:22)

Have you ever read the Courage to Be Disliked?

A (11:24)

I haven't read it, but it's a.

B (11:25)

Great title, you know, and it's so funny because it's not about that at all. Oh, it's. I've never understood. Well, I guess I do understand in a way, in a roundabout way, but it's this book about sort of codependency in a way, not taking on other people's tasks and owning your own tasks and then also kind of detangling yourself from power struggles with other people by building your self esteem in a way that doesn't place you as superior to other people, but is steeped in self acceptance.

A (11:56)

Yeah.

B (11:56)

So I think when you're at a rock bottom moment, we're told so much that we need to love ourselves out of it, that we just need more self love and more affirmations and all the things. But when you're at your, at your lowest, at your rock bottom and, and maybe some of that is your own doing or it actually is your own self sabotage or whatever, if you're saying those affirmation, affirmations in the mirror, they're gonna feel so like in discord with what's actually happening in your own reality that it might actually make you even a little bit more sick of your own stuff. So I think starting with just radical self acceptance and radical acceptance of the reality in the moment is what gives you the empowerment and like the point at which you can then launch yourself. And if you just say, okay, here's the reality of where I'm at. Yeah, you know what? I kind of did that thing and it was, it was sort of messed up and that wasn't the best decision that I made for myself. But I accept that I maybe don't love it. I actually maybe want to change that behavior, but I accept it. And I'm just going to really honestly look at what's here and dig into some kind of like meaning making process. Because I think making meaning for me is what always got me to the next thing and the Next step, because we can't change our circumstance if we're in a rock bottom. We can't reverse time and go do something differently. So we can either say, I can't do anything about this because I'm at a rock bottom and everything sucks, or we can say, I'm at this rock bottom, which means X, or I did this thing happened to me, which means whatever. And that could be as simple as, like, looking at our childhoods. We could say, my parents never modeled how to take care of themselves. And so the meaning I'm making out of that is that I don't know how to take care of myself and can't because I didn have the right example. Or we can say my parents never model taking care of themselves. And so I, I do have to actually work a little bit harder to figure it out. But I'm going to make sure, thanks to their example, that I never do that again and that I actually help other people because of what I saw. So we like, once you have reality and once you decide to make meaning out of that reality and make it your own, I think that's when you can take the next step forward.

A (13:57)

That's beautiful. And I love the radical honesty, but also the acceptance. And I think sometimes people think acceptance is complacency, but I know that's not what you're speaking to. Acceptance. If I argue with reality, Byron, Katie quote. If I argue with reality, I lose, but only 100 of the time. And so it's not about pushing against it. It's about saying, okay, this is what it is.

B (14:16)

Yeah.

A (14:17)

And me arguing doesn't help it, but let me do something with it. I can have a new narrative or a new framework around it. I can choose how I want to perceive it.

B (14:25)

Yeah.

A (14:25)

Which is powerful.

B (14:26)

Yeah. I mean, it goes for the most micro situations.

A (14:29)

It's.

B (14:29)

If you are not in shape. Right. And you're not in the physical fitness that you want to be in, that you know that you would need to be in for healthy longevity and aging. And you just tell yourself, well, I love my. Anyway, that's not quite as powerful as saying, like, hey, I tried to do a mile, a mile run today and I couldn't make it. And that's the reality. And so let me use that radical honesty of like, this is actually where I'm at. I actually don't love how I'm looking or feeling as a way to launch myself into, like, okay, now that I accepted that, I can do something about it because I'm not avoiding it. I'm not trying to like, you know, bypass it and like totally love myself out of it. We can still love ourselves. But I think acceptance is even more important than the love. And once you have the acceptance, you can take the daily consistent actions that that builds that true self love and trust because then you get to prove to yourself every single day that I did it. And that's how every relationship works. Yeah, you don't meet someone and love them right away just because you meet someone. And you guys build love through small little actions and gestures each and every day and through consistency. So you have to do that with yourself too. And I think that those little promises that you begin to keep to yourself, like I'm gonna go for a 10 minute walk every day, I'm gonna do this, they snowball upwards.

A (15:36)

That's right.

B (15:37)

And that's how we, we build this relationship that many of ourselves were not taught how to have and that we didn't see our parents have with themselves.

A (15:44)

And I think sometimes even hearing clients have self love as if it's avoidance, like I'm going to love myself and then take a bath or I'm going to love myself and not do the thing. But it's, you know, and oftentimes it's just a mechanism to hide, but it's self love in action. It's like I'm going to love myself and run the mile or eat clean. Not like let me heal and do the inner work and not actually make the behavioral change. But real healing is behavioral change. And so it's like how do I do that and be again honest with myself and show up in a way, even if it's not run the mile, I'll walk it. Yes. And just progress.

B (16:18)

Yes.

A (16:19)

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B (17:56)

I feel like my, my whole life has been about breaking cycles, as many of us feel, I'm sure. And that's a beautiful thing because each of us gets to kind of go a step further than our mothers and their mothers and their mothers and we don't have to go all the way. We just go out one step further and then our daughters or children will do the next. But you know, even originally when I started my health journey and decided to not take no for an answer or your labs are normal for an answer, so much of it was to break the cycle of the very life driven illnesses and, and symptoms that I saw my parents experience and how unhealthy their life was and how they just, they couldn't really make the best choices for themselves because they didn't have a relationship with themselves, they didn't know how to build self trust, they, they didn't exercise, they didn't eat well, they didn't do all of these things that I pushed myself so hard to be a person who does. And that was because I wanted to break that cycle and, and I wanted to really be able to prevent what I eventually saw my mom go through, which is Alzheimer's disease. After learning thanks to science and what we know now, how much that interfaces with muscle mass and resistance training and insulin, insulin resistance in the brain. So I think so much of my positive actions that I've been able to carry out for myself actually haven't even Been like totally out of self love. They've been out of this desire to break a cycle that I saw was so uncomfortable and that did inflict pain upon me to be a part of. And at the same time, I think that I also have broken these cycles that I realized were emotionally connected to many times my parents inability to take those positive actions for themselves. So I realized that my mom and I, we, we did have a very tumultuous relationship growing up. And I, I love my mother to pieces. She is a freaking genius. But she was also a very tortured soul in many ways because she was so smart and she was such an artist and she had a mother who was also so smart and very oppressed and all the things. So it was this very long line of like, female oppression and suppression in my mother's lineage. And it was always taken out on the daughter that was next. And so once I started to almost study my mom, I think a lot of my life has been a study of my mother. And a lot of like, my actions have come from that study. And I, I would look at, okay, why doesn't she take care of herself? Or like, why is she struggling with X, Y and Z? What could be one of the nutritional root causes to her depression? It was like I wanted to make her happy and, and fix her and in a way end up doing that for myself, which is very beautiful. But I, I realized that it wasn't just that she didn't want to exercise. It was that she had these psychological, this trauma that she had experienced and inherited from her mother and her lineage that was living in her body, and that she had all of these layers of things that were creating this existence where she wasn't happy and couldn't take care of herself or didn't take care of. And I think that that is what helped me eventually no longer be angry with her. Because I think that's like the, the default is that, you know, like it's a rite of passage that you blame your parents for everything and you're mad at them. And for a long time I was just like mad at my mom, right? And once I realized that this was a cycle and that this was part of why she couldn't make it out of those habits, I realized that if I held on to that, just like she held onto it for her mother, I wasn't going to make it out of my habits. And I had a really profound evening. Both my parents had Covid very early and were in different hospitals because of a technicality. And so I was Managing their care over the phone. My mom was on a ventilator. My dad was about to be put on one. I had a doctor call me and say, your mom's probably gonna die tonight. We've tried to wean her three times off of 100 ventilation. It's breathing for her entirely. And if we don't wean her, I don't think she's gonna make it. And the doctor was like. And also, I heard your dad is at St. John's and he's probably gonna die too. Like. Like, you know, I'm really sorry for you. And I was like, oh, okay. All right. And at that moment, I hung up the phone and just decided to do the only thing I could do at that point, which was pray and just light every candle in my house. And, like, I wasn't even someone who engaged in prayer like that. And I just scream, cried, and just asked her to stay and asked her to live. And it was the first time where I was like, oh, I just want her to live so badly. What a beautiful feeling that is. And. And how completely I forgave her in that moment of just wanting her to live and just loving her entirely. It's like that moment that I was about to lose her, I completely forgave her, and she ended up living. They call me the next morning, and they were like, well, the ventilator's now at 70. We were able to wean her, and I have no idea what happened, but it's. It's looking a little bit better. And granted, she has Alzheimer's disease. Being on the ventilator for weeks severely damaged her brain. It's not like she came out and was herself. But I got this gift of being able to then experience my mother alive in a world where I had forgiven her and no longer held this resentment and anger towards her. And what a gift to me to experience a lifetime with my mother where I felt. Felt no anger towards her and could just see her as a child and could see her as the child who didn't get that love from her mother and that it wasn't about me. And it just. I feel like from that moment on, my own personal growth as a human and my own relational skills with other people, because I got past that, just skyrocketed, and life got better.

A (23:34)

That is a powerful story, and there's so many things I want to highlight within it. I love that you said that the anger was a part of the process, and it's good that we don't stop there, because I think Some people get stuck in that cul de sac of continuing to blame the parents. But we do have to have our authentic experience. Some people don't meet the anger because they feel guilty, because they know what happened to their parents intellectually. And they're like, well, they did the best that they could and they gave me my life. So I don't want to get mad at them. But that actually blocks part of the healing process. So to be really honest with ourselves, to have our anger, not to live there, but to be honest about it, and then to move to a place of forgiveness, that's what actually supports. Supports integration. Because if you're bypassing the anger to jump to forgiveness, it won't work. And so I love that you brought some of the process up for you and how it just accelerated all of it in one night. I mean, how powerful.

B (24:29)

Yeah. And.

A (24:30)

And also just the work that you did around seeing your lineage from a larger point of view. I don't think a lot of people stop to do that. I did that through becoming a marriage and family therapist. They did genealogy work. So you look at your family trees and what the patterns were in your generation. So what were some of the patterns? And just for people to try this on, because I don't know that everyone thinks the way that you do, which is great that you had the reflective. The time and the willingness to look at it. But what are some of the patterns or family secrets that were passed down so we can become self aware and then like you're saying, just take the next step to resolve it a little bit more. You don't have to do all of the work. But what were some of those patterns and are they true for me or what can I do to resolve them within me so I can pay it forward for future generations? Kids.

B (25:14)

I love that so much.

A (25:15)

Yeah. It's beautiful. I honor you for doing that work. That's huge. Yeah.

B (25:19)

Yeah. I think that's a really valuable exercise for everyone to do to. I don't think we actually look into our family trees, nor do we always ask our older family members who are still alive, hey, what was my grandmother like? Or my great grandmother. And if you do have those family members that are still around, I. I really do encourage you to do that because even recently I asked my uncle about my great grandmother because that's certainly, you know, it started with her too, and found out all of these things about the trauma that she went through, that her husband died in the Spanish flu and they lost all their money and she had to Sleep with a gun under her pillow and protect her kids. And all this stuff that I would have never known about her strength, but also her trauma that gave a lot of color to this continued female hyper independence, oppression, like kind of bad luck, not having a choice thing that was going on. And interestingly, even during COVID now that you bring that up, I almost was forced into that sort of exercise because being on lockdown, having both parents in the hospitals and having to talk to family members and update them every day, it was the most my family and I ever talked in my whole life. Because we don't really speak like that. And I think maybe that happens as you kind of are like third generation American. We're not quite as close and cultural. And I had a chance to get curious with some family members. Hey, like, what was your parents dynamic? Like, what was, you know, my grandparents dynamic like? And I did start to actually find out a lot of these like codependent patterns in relationships in my family through just talking to them more often and, and reflecting on my parents relationship and connecting it all and then my own relationship. So it was like a Covid was a very spiritual time for me in like the oddest way.

A (26:59)

Yeah. And to, to talk to multiple family members I think is also important because I realized that I never met my grandmother, my dad's mom, she had a twin and the twin is 100 years old. She's alive now. But I know most of her story through my dad. And I want to ask her twin, my great aunt, her perspective because each family member is going to have a different perspective. So we want to get more information and data just versus one narrow projected perspective so that we can paint more of that picture. And I think the more we understand about our lineage and why they are the way they are, the compassion comes. It's like, oh, she was rigid because like for example, my other grandmother, she had four kids in her. Her, her husband died young and so she got really rigid. And that makes sense because that was her safety strategy. Not necessarily, you know, that I want to bring in that rigidity, but like it's innocent and how do we have compassion for it? But we also evolve it and I think we more. The more we judge it, the more we're stuck with it.

B (27:56)

I love that quote. I don't know who says it, but it's that like you can't hate someone whose story, you know.

A (28:01)

Yeah.

B (28:02)

And like the fact that you're using the word story and saying we need to know their stories. So story is so healing story is so important. Story is how we make meaning. You know, even just telling the story of our lives to another person. As we're doing that, and we're making story out of what's happened to us, we're actively healing in real time as we're telling it to them, because that's how powerful story is. That's why movies can change us and impact us, because it's story. So knowing your own story, your own lineage story, the healing that that can.

A (28:29)

Bring, is just so good. And talk to me a little bit more about your process of reparenting yourself. Share a bit more about maybe some of the do's and don'ts or things that you've learned around learning to reparent, especially if people didn't have healthy examples of parenting to learn how to do it to themselves.

B (28:48)

Yeah, I think, you know, interestingly, as you were asking that, one of the things that flashed in my mind was dopamine because I had a whole journey, you know, like a lot of, A lot of my existence growing up. And what I saw in my parents was instead of seeking, taking action, like a courage response, or instead of like creating comfort, there was a lot of sort of avoiding pain and doing so through things like food. Like, there was a lot of like food used in my home to comfort instead of like this healthy relationship with food and again, like exercise and doing hard things. And so part of my reparenting journey involved me sort of scientifically. I mean, science has helped me a lot, has helped me was. Was scientifically understanding the. The science of how doing hard things was not actually a punishment for myself, but it was a brain game of like a seesaw. I read this book called Dopamine Nation by Dr. Anna Lemke. Have you had her on the bed? She's so wonderful. And she talks about how in the brain. Let's say you're doing something that releases a lot of dopamine. Let's say you're scrolling on or you're watching a YouTube video and you're, you need to bed. And you're like, no, I just want one more YouTube video. I'm going to stay up a little bit later and you're getting that next dopamine hit from the next video. That's something that's so easy. It's such an easy kind of artificial hit of dopamine. You don't have to do anything to get it. So what your brain will do is once you kind of have. It's like a seesaw. Once you have those hits of Dopamine from things that are easy and pleasureful. Your brain has to correct that seesaw. But instead of going back down to baseline, it will have to overcorrect and actually dip down into of pain before it comes back to your baseline of neutrality because it has to have an equal and opposite response. So the same goes for things that are initially quote, painful or hard. Like going to the gym and getting a strength training exercise in that is actually difficult to do. Right. It takes effort, it's hard when it's happening, but because it takes effort and because it releases other neurochemicals and initially it's painful. So the seesaw is going down. Your brain has to overcorrect by giving you pleasure after the experience before it goes back to baseline.

A (31:00)

I have wondered about this because when I start a call around triggers, it ends up really light hearted. And sometimes when I'll start a training on manifestation or higher things, some of the shadow stuff comes up. And so it just feels like duality is like wanting to find harmony in all of it. To say yes to all of it. That's fascinating. Yes, yes, this makes sense.

B (31:18)

Yes. And so I think in the inner child lens it's like I, I initially I did think that it was all about, you know, like bubble baths and all the things and doing the nice things for her. But then I started to realize and, and this is why I love science and the why and incorporating that into the woo and the wellness because then you, you have the motivation behind your actions and like a reason to carry them out the way that you do. And so it, it kind of just led me to this path where okay, I'm not doing this to punish myself. I'm not saying I have to get this workout in so I can xyz. I'm doing this for my, on a brain level, I know that if I only do the good things then I'm not going to achieve the result that I want of being a healthier, more level human being. I am going to always kind of be stuck in looking for things that just give me comfort because that's what I'm used to or sort of hiding from pain or hiding from life because that's always sort of what I wanted to do. So yeah, reparenting in the sense where a lot of the actions that I took were to ultimately strengthen myself by way of initially doing something that was kind of hard and always challenging myself to do like the next hard thing, knowing that I was scientifically going to get a reward for it. And then Also, it's just again going back to the keeping small promises to yourself. I think that when your inner child is so wounded and has had such a hard time, she just needs like the tiniest bit of consistent. It's like a little cat, right? Like the cats just kind of need to like kind of come around you and paw you a little bit and they're going to be trepidatious. So, so you need to do the keep the tiniest promises. If you said that you were going to go to bed at this time, you really got to go to bed at that time so that you can learn that you're a reliable reparenter. If you said that you were going to get that morning sunlight and you're going to start tomorrow, you, you do have to do that. You have to keep those promises to her and start to become someone that you can rely on. And just that alone, it creates a whole different person.

A (33:11)

And one of the things I've also noticed is not talking to the inner child as if you're trying to of cheerlead or take the feelings away, but rather energetically get down on our knees and really be there with it. So instead of saying, you don't need to feel that way because thoughts and feelings speak a different dialect, so they're not connecting. So telling ourselves I shouldn't feel that way or I don't need to feel that way doesn't actually help. It just adds more of a concept away from what's actually true. So just energetically being like, I really get that you feel that way. Tell me more. So like meeting them. But then also I think I've heard you talk about not, you know, letting the little one just run loose.

B (33:46)

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Because my inner child really loves ice cream. Again, it was like food was my thing growing up as my family's vice. So yeah, whenever my inner child was kind of like crying out for a little reprieve from how much I work, it was right to ice cream. And so I would often be like, okay, I, I need to just talk to her, speak with her and say, listen, I love ice cream too. Ice cream is the bomb and I would love to have some with you right now. However, what if, you know, we just finished work, what if we take a second, we lay down for five minutes, we hit the gym, we maybe have like a little protein rich meal. We could listen to some fun music while we're making it, we eat our meal and if you still want the ice cream. Absolutely, let's do it. But maybe you'll be full. So let's check in then. And it's, it's, it's a different conversation than either like, binging on the ice cream and then hating yourself for it or saying, no, you can't have that. That's wrong. And like, you don't need that. And your, your want for it because she's wanting that because she's overworked and she wants fun. And so often my, like, food's been a big part of my journey, like, just reworking my relationship with food and my body. And so often that was very much about just learning how to speak to myself differently and acknowledge that so often what I was looking for in food was like, sweetness in my life and fun in my life and being sweeter and kinder to myself. And sometimes eating ice cream was a quicker and easier way to do that than to actually do the hard work of being kinder to myself or having fun. Having fun has always been very hard for me. Like, actually experiencing pleasure. I would rather work because it's. That feels safer.

A (35:22)

Yeah. And, or like, then we feel like we deserve it. Or maybe there's like guilt for having something be good. There's lots of psychology and that's normal.

B (35:30)

Yeah.

A (35:31)

Yeah. I went through a time of emotionally overeating when I was getting deep into personal development work with my first master's degree. And I'll share something that really helped me. And it's similar to what you're sharing in case this supports people. But what I noticed is that I would emotionally overeat, and mine was chips. And so what happened was that as soon as I felt the desire for chips, it was almost like my ego wanted to eat it really quickly. So I didn't wake up in the pattern. And so my practice for myself for one week, I'd extended to a month. But one week was as soon as I wanted to emotionally overeat, I would freeform journal. So five minutes. Don't pick up the pen. Just express the feelings. Rather than trying to use the carbs to get the nourishment. Express the feelings. Raw, honest. I feel, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't reread that. I would throw it away or burn it over the toilet. And then I would do compassionate self forgiveness. I forgive myself for buying into misunderstanding that I shouldn't be feeling this way or I shouldn't be eating those. And then the truth is. The truth is it's totally okay to want that. That's not the problem. So I would do rounds of Compassionate self forgiveness. And then my agreement to myself was that if I wanted the chips afterwards at that time, then I would allow myself to have it, but I would do it with presence and really enjoy it through pleasure, like a meditation. And if I didn't want it, I didn't make that better for not wanting it. Because the right, wrong dynamic in the mind that was saying it's good if you don't have it and it's bad if you do was actually creating more guilt. And the pattern was continuing. So I ended up doing it for a month and the entire pattern slipped away because I got to really address, like you're saying, offering myself what I thought I was trying to get through food, upgrading the tools so in case people want to play with that around. Addiction is really helpful.

B (37:10)

God, I love that. I want to replay that 50 times.

A (37:13)

But it's very similar to what you're saying in the sense that you're not judging it and you're giving yourself permission and you're really talking to yourself in a kind way. And I'm curious how reparenting yourself changed your journey with food and music. Specifically.

B (37:29)

With food and music.

A (37:30)

Yeah. Interesting. Or either, like, what were the results? Because so there's. So I know that the inner work translates to the outer totally. And so if you can make a connection for people. Because oftentimes we try to manage to control life so that we feel a certain way. And really it's just more direct to clear it inside of ourselves and then have that reflection in our physical world.

B (37:51)

Well, I definitely think that with food, it changed for me, especially the neutrality that you're saying. I love that that was so much a part of that. That outcome is that it needed to not be bad. It's just when you re parent yourself, I think it's. And she feels safe enough. Right. Like true self or even your inner child, you start to hear your own voice for what is kind of the first time ever in your whole life. And I didn't realize that I never heard my own voice. And we don't realize that we're hearing the voice of our mothers usually and how our mothers spoke to themselves. And I. Only when I began to repair myself and actually talk to myself and she felt safe enough to talk back or had an internal dialogue was I able to differentiate between just the voice of my mother or someone else or society beating me up versus my. My own voice. So I think that just that work alone helped me to have a lot more conscious conversation with myself, honest conversation with myself around Food because I didn't feel like I was going to get in trouble if I did binge eat or if I did, you know, make a, quote, bad decision that I was putting some moral standing on. And I was able to just get curious with myself because then that voice could actually talk back and answer my questions and give me the information that I needed to make different decisions. So it just became, why do we want cookies after a really hard, long day? Like, tell me what goes cookies are doing? Because they're awesome and I know that they're helping you because you wouldn't be reaching for them if they weren't you. You're a smart, compassionate girl and you love yourself. So I know that they're serving a purpose. What's that purpose? Let's talk about it. And through that curiosity, I would find, oh, it's that I'm really tired and I don't know how else to wind down or I'm really tired, and this is like a quick hit of energy. It's like sugar, and it's making me feel like I can keep going or combating that fatigue or whatever. I feel lonely after a long day. And so this kind of feels like my friend. This cookie or this sugar feels like a friend. And so I was able to. To just learn more about what I needed through that process. And that changed everything for me because then the next time I reached for it, I couldn't unhear those conversations. And it made me do a double take. And just that moment of a double take of, oh, remember the last time this happened? Am I feeling that right now? Can I check in with me? Just the stop and check in.

A (40:14)

Yeah.

B (40:14)

Is everything. If all of us could just stop and check in before having a, you know, a conversation when we're maybe a little bit too heated or before making a rash decision, it would change everything. So it just like developed the pause for me that reparent.

A (40:29)

It's like replacing judgment with curiosity.

B (40:33)

Yeah.

A (40:33)

And that curiosity opens the wisdom. The deeper intention within. Everything we're doing has an intention to serve us. Even if it's not effective, it's trying. And I hear that you're extracting the wisdom and upgrading the approach, which is really beautiful.

B (40:46)

Yeah.

A (40:47)

I'd also love to make the connection between your physical healing your body by doing internal, you know, working with your inner child. Was there a connection doing the inner healing work and how that helped your body heal? Yeah.

B (41:03)

I mean, I think so much of it is the nervous system regulation piece. I think also you can make better decisions as well for your physical body, when your nervous system is regulated so that you know so much of what, What I think makes our bodies healthier is consistency in the things that we know are good for us. Whether that's taking our supplements, you know, getting regular labs and making sure that we're working with a great professional that's going to the gym, strength training, walking, making really good food choices. Those things require a certain level of that internal dialogue and that inner child reparenting to happen so that you can be. Be the person that takes care of themselves, like the parent that you never had, the model of taking care of yourself that you never had. So I think it's like, it's very simple things that heal the body. It's just doing them consistently. And that was going back to breaking the cycles. That was the biggest thing that I saw. I was like, well, my, my parents actually have all this information. They're incredibly academically intelligent. And my mom and I talk all the time. She watches all these shows, she knows what she needs to do, but just can't actually do them. So I think especially in our wellness healing world today, we're saturated with information. There's a zillion wellness focused podcast that'll tell you everything you need to do and give you the keys to the kingdom. But we're sitting there listening and consuming information and that sometimes stops us from doing it. And so it's actually the inner work that is the most crucial because we. It's usually simple. It's just very, very simple. It's having the, the self relationship and the self worth and all the things and the self discipline to do them.

A (42:38)

And I think I saw even online you had pictures of your face or acne.

B (42:43)

Yeah.

A (42:43)

And then after doing some of the inner work.

B (42:45)

Yes.

A (42:46)

And that makes sense if you're, if you're not at war inside of yourself, that stress, how that shows up in different ailments in our body.

B (42:53)

Yeah, yeah. And I think it just, it also my, my inner child is my source of creativity. Right. For all of us, it's our source of ultimate play, creativity and expression. And I think an unexpressed body is a body that doesn't feel safe and, and a body that we're like, honesty can't live because if we're unexpressed, like we're not in there, we're outside of it because it's so uncomfortable to be in there unexpressed. And so I think a lot of the inner child healing work that I did and all of this kind of like psychological work that I've done inside helped me to get to the point where I could get back in my body to feel what even was true for me to express. Because to make art, to make music, to make any of these things, it has to come from inside of you. But you have to be in there first to access it. And sometimes you're out of your body for so long that it, you don't even know how to get back in. It's so uncomfortable to be in there, which is why we're like out here for everyone else, being who everyone else wants us to be. And then you can't make your truest art. So it's been, it's been a really beautiful thing to now start making music. And the music itself has been a reparenting or like a healing tool. Because when you're so present with something that you love and you're so in the process where you forget everything else and you are right here in your heart, you also start to realize and, and become faced with these truths that have been living in your body that you've been avoiding for a long time. And you, you go deeper, you peel another layer back and you're like, oh, oh, oh. Actually I'm kind of uncomfortable about this thing in my life. You write lyrics and you're like, oh, that's how I really feel. So it's just another layer of this self discovery process. I see art and making music as an extension of my healing journey and probably the truest form I've, I've ever been. Because it's, it's all in here and it's always been. But I was always looking outside of me for the answers or outside of me for all these different quick fixes and whatever. But it's been in here all along.

A (44:53)

Yeah. And what would you say to somebody who's relating to that right now? But they want to develop a relationship, relationship within themselves so that they can manifest and attract the life that they really want. But they're just not sure where to start.

B (45:05)

I think it starts with the most simple healing work. It really, like if you're at a place where you're still not keeping the little promises to yourself, where you're still not, you know, eating it. For me, it actually starts with eating breakfast. Funny enough. Like, I, and I know some people intermittent fast, but for me it wasn't like I was consciously intermittent fasting. I was just chaotically not planning for my life and not taking care of myself. Um, and just that alone, I think started my Entire spiral. And I only noticed it because when I was in herb school and I was working with clients who had pcos, I was really fascinated by pcos. I would notice that every single one of them didn't eat breakfast. Oh, every client. And I was like, why is this a pattern? And my brain is so attuned to pattern recognition. And so I was like, oh, it's not like they're doing it on purpose. It's this sign of like not taking care of themselves and like not re parenting, not having that internal self relationship and self trust and it's throwing their hormones off for the whole rest of the day. So just that act of nourishment, why is that so hard for them? And why is that so hard for me? Because I was like, you know what? I'm just like them. I'm not eating breakfast either. So if I'm telling them to do that, I better also do it myself. And I almost did it as a, you know, like, let me just try. And I saw that just that one act of nourishment alone changed everything. And I started to think like, yeah, what if I was in charge of a child and I didn't give that child breakfast every day and I let them go to school and then I let them get so hungry by 11am that they're eating M M's from the vending machine and then they're jumping off the walls and their blood sugar is wild for the rest of the day and they, they're never satiated. Like, would I be a good parent? And then I was like, well, I'm a person that I'm responsible for. Why can't I treat myself with the same love and care that I would treat a child I'm responsible for? And that was my first inner child, like light bulb moment. So it just started with that. It just starts with like treating yourself like you'd treat a child, like a child of worth, because you are a child of worth, you know, and. And if you can put in that lens, sometimes it takes that othering to get you to actually do the thing. It takes you to look outside of yourself and say, well, if I was this person. Because sometimes we really don't value who we are. We have a block around that. And, and it's, it's so hard to start making good decisions when you really don't like yourself. And I, that's where I was. I really, really, really didn't like myself. Just like my mom really didn't like herself. And it was so hard to Pull myself out of that. But I did it breakfast by breakfast, bit by bit, and you just claw your way out.

A (47:33)

And I like seeing the inner child as something separate, just for a moment to be like, well, how am I treating my own needs? And am I being a good parent to myself? And I also loved that you. It's not just about the practical of eating breakfast, although it is part of that because of the hormones and other things. But it also was rooting to something deeper, which is, do I respect myself? Am I paying attention to myself enough to care for myself, to really show up in action? Which is beautiful.

B (47:57)

Yeah.

A (47:58)

In your journey, did you have to shed or what things did you have to shed in terms of masks or survival strategies to really allow yourself to be more authentic?

B (48:10)

It's such a hard question because there's so much that I'm been still in the process of shedding always. This year has just been.

A (48:19)

I get it.

B (48:19)

My friend calls this year a shed abration and she said she's been watching videos of snakes shedding their skin so that she can actually watch through the lens of nature how painful it actually is for them and remind herself that her pain is real and valid. And I was like, that's a really cool way to use nature as a healing tool. But I think especially in this version of myself, it's like the, the layers never end. And so much of me sharing my life and my journey and my healing journey, especially health wise publicly online all these years, I was like, I am being the most vulnerable, authentic, my part of myself possible. And like I am vulnerable online. And then you start to really meet yourself in all these other ways, especially when, when life like pummels you in the dirt. It was all the stuff that happened behind the scenes, like almost losing my parents or, you know, having friendship struggles or all the stuff that you don't post about that's not like authentic and vulnerable and like a good story. That's the stuff that starts to make you really meet yourself and you're like, oh, oh. I'm like a totally different person from who I thought I was. But yet this, this palatable version of me that I created works. And it's. It's kind of very difficult to like come to terms with the fact that maybe there was this performer part of you that was really good at performing. And then you start to, you know, existentially have a crisis and think about it and you're like, well, that's kind of the nature of social media. It's built around getting likes and that's the metric. And so your. Your own brain is its own AI algorithm. That's like, how can I continue to contort myself to get more likes? Like, it's sort of a sick game that we participate in because it's a means to an end, but we don't realize that it plays to the performer in us, and it plays to that part that's not whole and not integrated. Because think about how hard it is to hold duality for yourself and your own life and to hold two opposite truths or different parts of yourself. Doing that for other people is like, 10 times as hard if you can't do it for yourself. So how could we kind of be all facets of ourselves online? We almost have to. The nature of it is to fragment yourself into a. A cardboard cutout. So, you know, now that I'm making music and I'm not the wellness person that I was for so long, it's. It's been a difficult identity shift and shed to, like, be okay with disappointing people, be okay with disappointing myself, be okay with my business changing, be okay with all of the changes that are required to no longer hold up the scaffolding of a life that was built around performing and giving so much of myself. Now I want to, like, be more instead of do, and I want to experience my life for the first time instead of extracting it and performing it, even though I didn't know I was doing that. But so much of, like, turning your everyday life into content is that it's explaining your life and performing your life instead of really being in it.

A (51:15)

Yeah. It's powerful. And I know for myself when I started noticing the parts, the performative parts, I'm a three in the Enneagram, which is an achiever.

B (51:24)

I think I'm a three, too. Are you?

A (51:25)

What's your wing two? A helper.

B (51:27)

Okay.

A (51:27)

So I like achieving things and helping other people do it. It's like coaching is the perfect space for me. But when I started noticing this part of me that was performing for love or thinking that success and the next thing made me worthy, I really tried to heal it away. And I realized that whatever I judge or identify, I'm stuck with with. And so I slowed down to say, of course you would try to perform your way to really be with the part of me that was performing, rather than judge it, to be the parent for it. And I realized, like, when I was a little kid, my parents, their friends would come over, and I'm like, I have a captive audience. And I would Just do a fashion show. And there was an innocent, sweet part that wanted to perform, that wanted to be seen, and I would have never judged her. So I was able to offer love to the part of me that wanted to be seen. And that was the only thing that actually helped me feel more whole, feel more integrated. And love moves towards everything. It doesn't push anything out, even the performer. And so being able to welcome all of it, I wasn't identified with any of it. And so that was a really powerful practice for me. And transforming it, ironically, because I wasn't judging it, I wasn't trying to push it away.

B (52:34)

Wow, I. I really needed to hear that. And I think I. I could use that and apply it to my own process at the moment, because I think it's. I've had such a harsh eye to it. Once I've become aware of it, it. And it's just such an odd relationship that I have with social media these days, where I think I'm. I'm in such a shedding of the external validation way of being. And I'm in such a radical process of figuring out who I am when no one's watching or because I never got to experience that, that it's even just, you know, posting a story sometimes the fact that you go back and look to see, okay, well, did it perform? Did people look at it even just that part of it is not healthy for me, and I don't want that. And yet it's how my business functions or it's like a part of our lives now. And so it's. How do you kind of interface with that?

A (53:19)

Yeah, I think. I think of alcoholism.

B (53:21)

Right.

A (53:21)

So I think of maybe removing myself from the bar for a little while and like to have somebody else on the team check the metrics while I come back to allowing that part of me, but not always leading from that part of me. But yeah, I. What I have found is just embracing that and offering it the love, the validation, really seeing it the way it wanted to be seen in the world has been a really powerful way through it, and that it doesn't need to change or be different, because it's not who I am. It's just a part of me. It's not the whole of me. And it softens it. Every part of us wants to be seen and accepted in the moment we do. It settles. Like these parts of us defend to the degree that they don't feel accepted. And so the moment we offer them that acceptance, they settle, they soften. And the same with Other people. And as we see it and accept it in us, it's easier to see and accept in others.

B (54:08)

Yeah.

A (54:09)

And. And I do know that some of the unconscious shadow healing work, which is part of what we're talking about, does create space for more creativity. Does, like, as we do some of that work, we have way more energy for aliveness and innovation. And one of your songs all this time. Yeah, I know. It's part of your inner child healing. And you say in it, the enemy within me set me free.

B (54:32)

Yeah.

A (54:32)

Can you talk to us about that?

B (54:34)

Yeah. You know, the. The lyric there. The enemy within me is like, I was kind of setting the. The criticizing part right, like the. The firefighter or essentially the. The really critical part of the manager. I was kind of letting her go. That song I wrote because of a parts work meditation exercise like that. It was. It came straight from a voice recording I did of a meditation of myself because it was when I had come home from a music trip, and I was so used to being in my music flow and, like, letting my inner child lead. This is. I want to write this song at midnight right now. This is when I'm feeling inspired versus the manager who's like, you have to get on slack and be in work hours and do your thing. And I had come home and was trying to run my business only from the manager and realized I was fragmenting myself again.

A (55:19)

So are you saying, like, the manager could lead your business and then the creative car part could do it? Was.

B (55:24)

No, I was saying that both my music and my business require both my inner child and my manager.

A (55:29)

And that, like, wasn't happening.

B (55:31)

I can't fragment myself anymore.

A (55:32)

Good.

B (55:33)

So I was like, you know what? How can I bring my inner child into even the way that I run my business now and take from her that whole, like, oh, we're in the flow right now. I'm getting inspired. Take from her that sort of direction around my energy levels and my time and when I have an idea, but also apply it to the manager systems. And so I was like, I need to get these two parts together and talk to them.

A (55:54)

Yes.

B (55:55)

So I laid down and I just kind of put my. My phone on voice memo record. And I was like, okay, you guys can have a conversation. And I just had my manager, like, she actually wanted to thank my inner child for her patience all these years. And she was like, you know, thank you for just, like, sitting there at the desk all these years while I was writing, you know, PDP pages for my tinctures and While I was answering emails and all these things, you've been so patient. You did such good work. Like you really sat there and you worked and all these things. And now it's your time to be set free and to, to kind of like come with me. And then she had a moment where she came in and was telling the, the manager, like, I'm no longer listening to you as we can work together as long as you stop bossing me around so much. And as long as you realize that I have your greatest genius and I have your best interest at heart and my way of doing things is just as valid as yours. And it was so nice to give them both the floor. And so some like, some of the lyrics in that are like direct quotes from that 47 minute of recording that I had. I guess a lot had to come out and I think that's a great tool that anyone can use is to just lay there and give their parts the floor.

A (57:05)

Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I have a tool in my certification. I want to highlight some of what you did because it's brilliant.

B (57:10)

Yeah.

A (57:10)

So. And I have two parts of me. I call them Phoebe and Monica from Friends. There's like this business type woman and then there's like smelly cat, free spirited.

B (57:18)

Oh my God, you totally look like Jennifer Aniston. By the way. Now that you said Friends, I'm like, oh God, my God.

A (57:22)

So I've got these two parts that I had to have a conversation with as well. And I think some of the. I want to highlight what would be helpful to set people up for this is to give Mike to both of them to find out what do they each want, like what do they value? And then how can you acknowledge each other but then come up with a plan that honors both of them, not just having one or the other? Because yes, all. If we listen to all parts, we're going to be even more successful by collaborating rather than pushing one out. So, so highlighting like what does the manager want and how, how can you work together to have both? And then what does the inner child want? Play and genius and creativity so that you honor both of them that you can do with forgiveness if that feels authentic. And then how do we align so we can move forward with supporting Olivia in her dreams? I think that's.

B (58:08)

I can't believe all of this is in your certificate. This is amazing.

A (58:13)

And I also just want to speak to just in closing because there's of a lot, lot of people who feel that inner tug. They're like, I know I'm meant for something more or I want to change careers or follow my creative longing and passion, but they're scared to do it. What would you say to them?

B (58:30)

Oh, man. I would say the reality is in the. In the nature of radical reality. The reality is it's going to be hard. You're going to have to grieve some things, but you're going to grieve them because you're ready to. Because they've expired. And it's going to be so much more painful to hold on to something that was expired and outdated than to just face it head on and grieve it. And while that those old systems or old ways of doing things are kind of dying or like composting so that they can fuel your new things, it's going to give you so much more energy and to just remember that the old thing that you've been really good at, that feels so hard to leave because you've been so good at it. You're good at it because of you. Because of your focused energy and genius. And so that is something that can never be taken away from you, no matter what you're doing, doing. And all the more reason to really fully let go of that old thing instead of to hold on halfway because you're going to need to put that genius fully into the new thing to make it successful, because it's your essence that's going to rock it. So just know that like a full send is better than a half cent. And yes, that will come with a little bit more pain because you're really ripping the band aid off. And so it's not going to be rainbows and butterflies, but it will be so worth it to meet that version of yourself who went all the way and discovered what they were really capable of. Yeah.

A (59:48)

And that you will keep learning from different iterations and versions of yourself and different careers or different experiences of your life to make you even more successful. Following your path, following your aliveness.

B (60:00)

Yeah. And a lot of times our ancestors didn't have the choice. We have the choice. So I think we should honor that choice. This is like a revolutionary time where, you know, even one generation ago, people were worked forever and got a pension and that was really how things functioned. But things are so different today and. And you can be anything you want to be.

A (60:18)

We have choice and we have tools. And with those two. Unstoppable.

B (60:22)

Yeah, unstoppable.

A (60:23)

What a gift you are. I'm so glad to have you on the podcast. I knew I fell in love with you the first time I met you and it's just so delightful to drop in to hear your magic and wisdom. I know my audience is going to want to stay connected. Talk to us about what you're up to and how they they stay connected.

B (60:37)

Sure. So you can follow me on Instagram at Olivia Amatrano. It's my full name now. I used to be Organic Olivia. Just changed my identity. But my company, my herbal supplement company is at Organic Underscore Olivia and my music is now on Spotify, Apple Music. Everywhere music is found. It's under O Livia. My first single is Another lover and then my formulas. My herbal line is called organic livia@organiclivia.

A (61:06)

Amazing. We'll put all the links in the show notes.

B (61:08)

All my 17 personalities. Yeah.

A (61:11)

Multifaceted, creatively express self. Such a gift to have you.

B (61:15)

Thank you so much.

A (61:17)

Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference. And if this podcast has supported you, one of the most impactful ways to help us reach more people is to simply press the follow button. It really does help us grow and we are so grateful. You can also leave a review on Apple or Spotify and take a quick screenshot and upload it@alysonobriga.com podcast. And as a thank you gift, we'll send you one of the most impactful tools for transforming your fear into freedom so that you can step more fully into your potential. There is so much more magic ahead and I cannot wait to share it with you. But for now, I just want to say thank you for being a living example of what it means to walk through the world with an open heart and mind. I am so grateful that you're here and I cannot wait to see you in the next episode.