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Healthy Screen Habits Podcast
Beyond Screens: Healing Teens Through Connection // Kellyn Smythe
00:29:52
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- [00:00]
A
Doing the typical little risky things that make you as a parent, like grit your teeth a little bit. Those are really, really important from a developmental standpoint. And if we're not seeing that, we're probably missing out on some important developmental experiences.
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B
Welcome to the Healthy Screen Habits podcast. I'm Hillary Wilkinson. Whether you're starting your parenting journey with a newborn or looking to connect with your teen on technology, let's learn some new healthy screen habits together. Foreign. We are all aware of the adolescent social media addiction crisis. We hear week after week about how this unprecedented, uninformed experiment we're partaking in is rewiring brains, causing serious mental health issues and negatively impacting sleep. At the end of last year, Australia took the bold step in banning social media for kids until age 16. But what comes next when the likes and the shares are set aside and social media withdrawal sets in? What do we do? And this is where my guest today comes in. He is an expert at helping youth transition from living on devices to connecting with the physical world. Since 2014, he has worked at Pacific Quest, a fully licensed and accredited residential mental health care establishment on the island of Hawaii. Welcome to Healthy Screen Habits. Kellen Smythe.
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A
Aloha, Hillary. Nice to meet you, Kellen.
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B
For most of us, we hear Hawaii and we picture vacation. But, but Pacific Quest is a residential treatment center. And can you just give us a. We're not going to spend our whole time on this, but can you explain what Pacific Quest is and what you guys do?
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A
Yeah. So Pacific Quest is a residential treatment program. And in the the constellation of resources that are out there for youth as well as adults, there's a few different levels of care that might be helpful to understand. So the very first, and something that I think is a little bit newer in the landscape of mental health resources is what we call mentoring or coaching. These are generally in the community, they're getting kids out and engaged in activities, and those can be really powerful because they're very much active. They're not therapeutic. Thing to be mindful about in that space is just that there's not really a licensing process. There's not a lot of oversight in that world. So just be really thoughtful. When it comes to mentoring or coaching resources, the next layer is what we're probably all familiar with when it comes to therapy, if you will, and that's outpatient therapy or psychiatry, where you go meet with your provider. Increasingly these days, those tend to be virtual connections, as providers realize it's much more cost efficient to not have an office because they don't need one. But those are the, those are the resources where you go in, you meet once a week, you have sort of a long standing relationship with those folks that might last years. And that can be a really great resource for folks as well. The next layer, so that's, that's where most people I think are familiar with. The next layer, beyond our kind of outpatient resources is what we would call IOP or intensive outpatient resource. Those tend to be kind of short term, six to eight weeks and usually about three hours a day. So usually after school for kids, they go, they do group individual work can be really valuable. There's another layer up which is what's called a PHP or partial hospitalization. And that is just more hours. So it's like IOP plus, so usually six hours a day and, and that is also about six to eight weeks. Another kind of more intensive resource. All of these are community based. So you live at home, you come home, you have dinner at home, all of those things. And for again, for many, many families, engaging those kind of resources really helps shift things in a positive direction. If it's not, then that next layer of care is where we come in, in our space. It's a residential treatment experience, but typically it's referred to as a RTC and that typically lands between 30 and 90 days. For us, it's very consistently closer to 90 days. We're a little longer term residential treatment experience. And there you'd be living with, that's the residential part of it. You're living with the program. They're caring for you 24, 7, providing food, housing and hopefully some really immersive experiences. Beyond that is the sort of acute care setting. And that's where someone's in the throes of a significant mental health crisis. They're in a hospital and that's an acute care. Those are very short term, usually just a few days. They're not really providing treatment, they're providing safety. So at Pacific west, we fall into that residential treatment space. And our big thing here is really focusing on the idea that no one's ever been talked out of a mental health crisis. I've never met a kid that I could trick out of their depression or anxiety. Therapy really just provides this opportunity to reflect on and learn about the experiences of our life and emotions and relationships. But it's not by nature therapeutic. And the same can be said about psychiatric medications. While medications can be an important part, and they are for a lot of our clients, a part of their mental health treatment process. There's not a pill for autism or adoption or trauma. And so what we've discovered, and I think it's fairly intuitive, is that only experiences, specifically experiences in relationship, are what really unwind these negative patterns. And so if we were to ask you or any other parent out there, if we reflect on a moment in our lives that we feel proud of or that really kind of change things in a meaningful way for us, it's never this one time on Zoom therapy. Right. It's always these kind of big moments where we're connected with a partner or with a loved one or with nature. Often they're in nature. I mean, for me, it's, you know, the birth of my kids. It's when I was a kid and, you know, traveling in the Himalayas. It's, you know, a first kiss with a romantic partner. It's, you know, those moments that are sort of unscripted and, you know, you're connected to something else. And so at Pacific Quest, we really try to leverage that by utilizing therapies, all kinds of different integrated interventions, medication, management, nutrition, but really focusing on this idea that we can be in nature and experience those transformative moments. Comments?
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B
Thank you so much for giving us that whole strata of breakdown of the different levels, because I think, you know, depending on what crisis you're dealing with, I mean, I think it's helpful to hear all of the. The different layers. So thank you. Thank you. I like. Can we touch just a minute on some of the experiences that you guys offer? I mean, being in Hawaii, you certainly have a specific, you know, pocket of the world in which. Yeah. In which to foster some of these cool things are. What are some of your favorites?
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A
Yeah, for sure. So our program is based on the water, actually. We're right on the ocean on the Hilo side of the Big island, which means that, you know, they've got this five acres of garden space on the ocean. We go paddle boarding, swimming, snorkeling, and kayaking. It's whale season in Hawaii right now, which means there's baby whales jumping out in front of the campus. There's a mild infestation of sea turtles, which is pretty fun. And again, you know, for us, it's this great thing where our kids, again, get all the. They get all the therapeutic interventions you expect the group therapy and family therapy and all of those components. But they're doing it while they're on a paddleboard or on a double hold canoe or sitting on a beach or if we're lucky, the. The volcano is really active and they're, you know, they can be out at night watching these 2000 foot fountains of lava shoot out while they're with a pier. And it can be really transformative.
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B
It sounds like it. What type of role do you see technology playing and a reason why some of the residents that are coming to Pacific Quest need to come for a stay.
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A
You know, I thought about this a little bit and certainly over the years we've seen a handful of cases where technology is that it's that genesis of the distress. Like it's the thing that started all of it. You know, that can be online bullying, that can be being a victim of a digital crime. Those kinds of things do come up. It's pretty rare though. Being a teenager is sort of like, it's like a little dumpster fire. Like it's always a mess. Right. For all of us. And what technology tends to do, social media specifically is it's sort of an accelerant. It's like gasoline. And so what we see is that technology has this capacity to exacerbate the existence existing patterns which can be really positive. Right. For so for many of us where you know, we're on a sports team or we're, you know, part of a community and we're organizing something, it's this great vehicle to make those connections even deeper. Right. But for a lot of our youth maybe who are neurodiverse or maybe they have had some important developmental experiences that have been missed. And I just like to stress this part, that's pretty much every kid right now because we had Covid and that's two and a half years of social emotional development that just got deleted or maybe they've had some aces in their early childhood. Right. Those kids are just at a higher risk.
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So just so in case people don't, don't know the acronym.
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A
Yeah. So ACE is an adverse childhood event. And that's. Those would be those traumas that can, can unfortunately, you know, significantly inform how kids experience later life. But all that is to say that those, those kind of initial factors can, can lead to this scenario where now technology starts to accelerate that. So we have someone who's maybe just has a low sense of self worth and self esteem or they have a loose sense of connection to their family or their peers. And now tech and now social media just sort of accelerates that. That's generally what we see in our, our space.
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B
Yeah. So I think that that use kind of pulled out the word connection is very interesting to me because that is my greatest concern going forward with The AI tech that we're seeing, the AI technology is, you know, it's kind of hijacking a lot of connections. So we've seen some of it with social media. I think it's well known that, you know, it was an attention economy that they were going after. I'm very concerned about the attachment economy. When you are at Pacific Quest, do you allow cell phones?
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A
Oh, goodness, no. This is probably one of the biggest sticking points for a lot of the youth who are coming to PQ is that we don't allow them to have their cell phones. And while we do a movie night, you know, once or twice in a week, that's about the extent of their interface with screens, we really try to take a solid break from technology. And it's sort of obvious, right, we'd want to do that, but it's also one of the sticking points and it's pretty challenging. It is also so incredibly transformative and diagnostic. Right. You know, we have these youth who come to us, and I wouldn't say they're like in a crisis, but they're definitely stuck. And it's sometimes really tricky to kind of untangle, like, what part of this is a learning style, or what part of this is your childhood experiences, or what part of this is just kind of your own organic divergence and who are you? Right. And technology just muddles all of that. So if we get it out of the equation, not only do we get just better understanding of what's really going on, but it allows us to just deepen those connections that really matter. And a lot of times it's with their family. So this is the fun part, right, is we, we take their phone away, which means you can't call mom, you know, whenever you want to, or you can't text your friend whenever you want to. And yet by the end of, you know, about a 90 day experience, our youth report feeling better, connected. Better connected to themselves, to their families, to the world around them. I think one of the essential elements of the program is just getting a break from technology.
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Are there any kind of like classic tech detox or withdrawal symptoms that you see?
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Oh, yeah. So, I mean, the very first of which is just ridiculous boredom. I mean, and it makes sense again, right? If you've been spending any significant part of your day being entertained by a machine that does that process for you, you're just bored. And our students definitely are. I would say many of them also experience an increase in their anxiety initially. And which is a little paradoxical, right? You know, our kids come to us often because they're experiencing so much anxiety and then we take their phone away and then their anxiety goes up. Diagnostically we see that as that was there to start with and that technology, that social media, whatever those devices are, they're, they're really just kind of a short term solution to the longer term pattern. Poor sleep is the next one. Most all of our youth are using scre screens or some kind of tech as they go to bed. It's, it's integrated into their bedrooms. And so initially, I mean their, their sleep is very disrupted and then a whole lot of irritability. They're pretty grumpy, you know, which sort of makes sense. All that is to say that after a few weeks we see a huge restoration in terms of their sleep. Creativity goes through the roof. We see kids like start picking up musical instruments again, picking up art, picking up writing, poetry, all kinds of things. They make ridiculous goofy games together. Right? It just opens the door for them to really tap into that creativity because boredom is the seed of creativity. And then again that, that sense of just feeling more and more connected.
- [14:08]
B
When we come back, I'm going to ask Kellen more about the role that tech is playing in connection today. Need a fun school assembly that provides research backed content, actionable tips and great presenters? Look no further. Healthy Screen Habits presents digital wellness material for all ages in developmentally appropriate, interesting ways that encourage kids of all ages to make good digital decisions, create lasting healthy screen habits and learn safe methods of dealing with sketchy content. We have assemblies or in class visits for all, all ages and stages. Give your school the best foot forward on digital wellness by reaching out to us at Healthy Screen Habits.org Click the book a speaker button and let's chat. I'm speaking with Kellen Smith, the admissions director of Pacific Quest, a residential program that helps adolescents and young adults boost their self esteem, heal traumas and get to the root of what is holding them back. So Kellen, there's a lot, a lot of talk today about our young men in crisis and I'm curious, is this something that you see reflected in the residents at Pacific Quest? I mean do you have stats on, on young men to young women ratios coming to your place?
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A
Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question. Yes and no. Is the, the short answer the.
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B
The.
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A
It is abundantly clear. There's, there's so much data that supports this. Our, our boys are seriously being impacted by technology and some extremely toxic influences online. I'm raising boys myself and so I'M especially attuned to this and I think we just cannot underestimate the importance of addressing that because for better or for worse, how boys respond to that has this outsized impact on society at large. We see that through just so many different vehicles. Boys, however, are sort of conditioned, socially trained to internalize their emotions and externalize their behaviors. Our girls, however, and this is not just during technology or Covid, it's been a long standing pattern for us. Our girls are sort of taught the opposite, the inverse of that, which is to externalize their emotions and internalize, internalize their behaviors. Now, Pacific Quest tends to focus on, if anything, kind of an absence of behavior. Most of our clients are pretty internalized in their behavior patterns. When there are behaviors, they tend to be limited to the home. And we see kind of this externalizing of emotions. And so for that reason, our scope of care is a bit more aligned with the way that our girls are struggling. We generally are kind of about 50, 50 gender split, but if there is a gender split, it tends to be a little heavier on the female side. And that's just because of the nature of our scope of care and that
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B
you deal with a lot of social media stuff and social media stuff. But if I had to draw a gender line, it'd be, you know, girls are more adversely affected by social media. Boys, it's video gaming and you know, everybody gets adversely hit by porn.
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A
So yeah, that's the, that's the one we're seeing more and more of, is the explicit content is, and the algorithm driven explicit content is very different than how boys used to experience and, and now females as well, how they used to experience pornography. And that is, I think, pretty profoundly influencing their experience of gender identity, sexual identity and just safety in relationship in general. Very few of our clients are actually kind of taking the, their traditional sexual risks and exploration that we would expect in their teen years.
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Yeah, I agree with you. And in fact, many of them aren't dating at all. Many of them are just stepping out.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah. So in November you were featured in Parents magazine for an article, for an article on screen addiction. You encouraged parents to look out for a few things if they were concerned about screen overuse. Do you have some red flag type things?
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A
For sure? Yeah. I'm a bit of a biased data source because I'm working with families who are in a tough spot. Right. We've gotten to a place where things aren't really going well. So, you know, for the vast majority of your listeners, it's These aren't probably things that are coming up, but if they are, I'd say these are pretty consistent with the things I get to see. And one of the first ones, it's a, that's a big red flag for me is avoiding in person experiences, right. So especially as kids kind of develop into their elementary, early teen and late teen years, they should be seeking connected experiences outside the home with lots of different peers and all kinds of stuff. And so if increase in screen time is correlated with a decrease in seeking out those kind of in person experiences, that's a, that's a red flag. We want to be thoughtful about that. The next one, and this is sort of often connected to that, I would say, is this need for using screens to regulate our emotions or their emotions. And it can start really early, right? It can be that thing where it's like, well, can't go to the restaurant unless we have the iPad. As we progress, it can get to this place where it's like, well, if I don't have my phone, like, I can't go on that adventure. I'm not going to go on that adventure because I'm too dysregulated. I just need to be in my room. So if we start seeing technology being used as a vehicle to regulate, that's another red flag.
- [20:07]
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I can't over emphasize that. And where we see it happening is in early childhood development when it's the quickest way to stop a tantrum. And I just, I encourage people to embrace the tent, be uncomfortable. It's okay, you know, sit, sit with the discomfort of your child and get them through it and just be steady. But don't hand them a device to, to get them to distract out of their emotions.
- [20:36]
A
You know, I'm a parent as well. I've got two young boys and they definitely have their moments of absolute dysregulation, as do I. And it's so compelling to just be like, here's a screen. Just chill out for a second. And I think the longer obviously that we lean into that as a resource, the more it becomes their only resource. And, and that's the, that's the big concern. I'd say the other, the other things are if we're seeing school absence, increases in anxiety, depression, changes in weight, well being, sleep, activity level, those are more physiological representations of being overly immersed into technology. And then big, big outbursts around boundaries with screen time. So it's like, hey, it's time to turn TV off. And you get this oversized response. And then as we get into those later teen years. It's the avoidance of those typical pro social milestones. So getting the driver's license, going on a D. I mean, I'm just going to say it, like sneaking out of the house, doing the typical little risky things that make you as a parent, like grit your teeth a little bit. Those are really, really important from a developmental standpoint. And if we're not seeing that, but we're. We're probably missing out on some important developmental experiences.
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B
Thank you. So you've mentioned that you have boys a couple of times. I'm just wondering if we can take a peek inside the walls of your house. What type of family rules do you guys have around screens?
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A
We are not a screen absent house. So we haven't gone fully, you know, off the grid. But we do limit time. So it's about an hour a day is the maximum screen time and it's earned. So got some basic chores. You know, it's feeding the dog, putting your backpack away, clean your room, make your bed, do the very basics. They give it an hour a day. Those are on during the week. If they've earned those things, it's some kind of educational program, Nat Geo, those kinds of things. And then on the weekend, they can watch regular cartoons for an hour. The big ones I'd say for us are there's no personal screens. No one has an iPad.
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B
Right.
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A
There's certainly no screens in the room. And then we are more and more inclined to this idea of let's just get away from anything that's algorithm driven. So I want either myself, my wife, or my kids to choose. This is what we're going to engage in. Rather than having a machine decide based on where it thinks my attention should be focused. So we avoid things like YouTube or obviously social media. My boys are a little bit too young to engage in that. I'm also just going to throw this out there. This is. My son's in a dual immersion language program here. And what that means is that he gets to go through basically kindergarten all the way into high school with the same cohort of kids. There's all kinds of wonderful benefits of this, but the thing I didn't think of until recently is that all of these kids go together, which means all their parents go together, which means we know all the parents and we've all already had these conversations around tech use. And so we get to have this kind of community decision where we're sort of normalizing like, yeah, no one's getting a smartphone until you're 16. Right. So that's not necessarily an in home rule, but it's something we're trying to leverage within the community and we're, you know, sort of fortunate and that we get this nice collection of parents. To be able to do that with
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B
building of community that has a shared interest is so critical for your overall success of tech management. I mean, my hat's off to you that you've been able to do it.
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A
I would, I would say that's lucky just given our circumstances.
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B
Well. And intentional because you, you very definitely sought out that type of educational experience for your boys. It's, you know, there was a lot of plan in that.
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I'm giving credit to my wife on that one.
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B
Yeah. No, I can tell you that the basis of Healthy Screen Habits was we were that crew that you, that you're talking about where it was like minded moms that came together and said, hey, we are not happy with the way we are seeing screens, you know, kind of take over, infiltrate our family life and let's, let's see what we can all agree upon together. And you know, at this point, the, those, those original levels of kids are now in their early 20s and young adults and doing their own thing. But it was, it was very well worth the ride.
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A
Oh, for sure, for sure.
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B
When we come back, I'm going to ask Kellen Smythe for his Healthy Screen Habit.
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C
At what age should I give my child a smartphone? How much screen time should I allow each day? What are the best filters to use on my family's devices? Sound familiar? These questions and more are answered at the Healthy Screen Habits website. We've curated the best articles, books, videos and many other resources to help you figure out how you want to use technology in your life. Click on the Awareness section to learn about the issues and dangers surrounding screen use. Then click on the Tools page to download printables you can use with your family today, including the Healthy Screen Habits family technology plan. Visit our website at www.healthyscreenhabits.org for the resources and tools you need to get started.
- [26:02]
B
I'm speaking with Kellen Smythe, the admissions director for Pacific Quest, which is a residential treatment center in Hawaii that works to build resilience and equip residents with the real world tools they need to thrive. So, Kellen, on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast, I ask for a healthy screen habit. And this is going to be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice in their own home. What's yours?
- [26:31]
A
All right, so this is when we actually regularly Do. As much as I am deeply concerned and anxious and thoughtful about, you know, technologies in our house, we also still use technology, which means we have social media and we do all the things that, you know, many families do. But at the same time, one of the things that's been really helpful for us to just kind of check in on this is practicing these kind of two week periods of social media sobriety. Sometimes it turns into a month, sometimes it turns into a whole summer. We just did a whole summer of it and it's really, really profound. So my, my tip or trick or challenge, if you will just be. Just take a two week break, you can do more. But two weeks, I think is the minimum for you to really kind of notice what's different. And I would say get the whole family involved. Right? Everybody takes a quick break and let's see what comes up. Let's talk about it, let's, you know, bring it up, let's explore it. And then when it comes back, if you decide to bring it back, what comes up, then what's different for me, I can say that when you turn it back on, you haven't had it on for, let's say, you know, for a summer and there's a billion notifications. It's really overwhelming. It feels like a job. And so I think, you know, each of you guys might have a different experience of what it looks like to take a little break from it.
- [27:52]
B
Yeah, I love that. I love that. Just kind of like prune the flow for a bit, especially with everything going on with all the political stuff and everything of today. I found that it really affects my mood. So I, I hate people a lot
- [28:09]
A
less when I'm not watching them online. I like people a lot more when I'm spending time with them.
- [28:16]
B
Yeah. And you're a people guy. Okay. As always. You can find a complete transcript of this show by visiting the show notes for this episode as well as a link to more inf know about Pacific Quest. You do this by going to Healthy Screenhabits.org, click the podcast button and scroll to find this episode. Kellen, thank you so much for being here for talking a little bit about that, like the whole mental health side of where, you know, different options that people can take when they find themselves needing extra help as well as what's, what's working for you in your life.
- [28:55]
A
Of course. Thank you, Hillary, so much. I really appreciate it.
- [29:00]
B
For more information, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Healthy Screen Habits. Make sure to Visit our website, healthyscreenhabits.org where you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or via RSS so you'll never miss an episode. It's free, it's fun, and you get a healthy new screen habit each week while you're at it. If you found value in this show, we'd appreciate you giving us a quick rating. It really does help other people find us and spread the word of healthy screen habits. Or if you'd simply like to tell a friend, we'd love that too. I so appreciate you spending your time with me this week, and I look forward to learning more healthy habits together.