Hillary Wilkinson (2:51)

you were trying to love it to death, I can tell.

Talmage Erickson (2:53)

Trying to love it to death. And boy, boy, did we. But I, I got a front row seat like you said Hillary had at some of the things that were happening around me, such as cyberbullying, sexting, pornography, all this comparison, this competition, this criticism that comes with the digital world. And I just sat back and thought, you know what? Maybe, maybe this was meant to be. Maybe my dad was in the right. And so that led me on a journey of understanding what digital wellness means and how we can live a life beyond the screen, how we can connect in real life instead of virtually. And that's where I'm at today.

Hillary Wilkinson (3:33)

I relate to your story in that I grew up in a house where TV was really not allowed. It was allowed in very, like, limited viewing, special events, stuff like that. As a result, like, I can remember watching, like, presidential inaugurations. I remember, like, you know, like many others of Gen X. I remember when the space shuttle blew up. I remember when that, you know, I mean, but they're very, very impactful visual images. But I can tell you, as a result, there were and still are to this day, pop culture references that get made in, like, specific, say, Brady Bunch episodes or opening songs to sitcoms of, like, the 70s and 80s you know, that were popular. But I have literally no idea what people are talking about. Did you knowing, like, our meme culture and, like, you know how saturated that is. Do you have any of those pockets of, like, I do not know what like, Daniel's white shoes were, or I do not know, like, like, do you have any of those?

Talmage Erickson (4:47)

I believe that I do. And, and to name them specifically, I, I wouldn't even know where to start. So you're probably right. I, I, I missed out on some of those, those memes, some of those famous reels or videos that went viral. I just, I heard about them from my friends, but maybe didn't get to get to experience it firsthand.

Hillary Wilkinson (5:08)

Yeah, yeah, but with a little age and perspective, you're okay with it?

Talmage Erickson (5:14)

Totally.

Hillary Wilkinson (5:14)

This is like, one of the primary things that when we recommend parents use, like a transitional device, like a trumi or a gab or something along those lines. Did you have a challenge with making plans with friends, feeling included within, you know, social setups? And if you played athletics, how did your coaches communicate with you?

Talmage Erickson (5:43)

Great point. And, and I would say I did. I missed out a lot, unfortunately. My family moved right after I got my little smartphone or my little flip phone. And, and so I started at a new school, started in a new community, a new church group, a new area, new neighborhood. And to be honest, that was the hardest part. Yeah, was I. I wasn't in the group chats, I wasn't connected with people online. I wasn't in the Instagram dms. I didn't have that virtual connection with some of my old friends. So I. I sank pretty low. And I felt very, very alone. But what did happen was I learned that real connection isn't virtual. And I learned that people need people. And I had an experience. Hillary, when I was. That first semester, when I was at my new school, I just. Man, I was in the dumps and I was walking home from school thinking to myself, man, I just. I don't belong. I'm not one of the cool kids. I'm not the popular kid. I'm the new kid.

Hillary Wilkinson (6:46)

My heart's breaking.

Talmage Erickson (6:48)

And. And this was a life changing moment because I had a friend come and. And he rolled down his window and I had met him somewhere, I don't remember, and he said, hey, let me give you a ride. So I hopped in his car and he gave me a ride home. And I thought, oh, my gosh. In the depths of despair, people are what matter most. And so that gave me a good insight of what it means to live beyond the screen. And what we teach in schools and communities is connection is the cure for any disease. It's the cure for any addiction. It's the cure for any hardship that you had in life. And so, yes, I did struggle because I felt like it didn't belong in the digital world. But also I had a better view of real connection.

Hillary Wilkinson (7:31)

Yeah. Yeah.

Talmage Erickson (7:31)

I hope that answered your question.

Hillary Wilkinson (7:33)

I. It. It does. And it. It's oddly validating for choices I made with my own parenting. But also, you know, we live in such a frictionless world anymore. We live in such a world of convenience. Literally, you know, just tapping a button can bring nearly anything to our doorstep within hours or days. And I think that we've gotten so used to living in this lap of, like I said, just ease and comfort and everything that we forget that friction is necessary for growth. That's a very good reminder. Thank you. So let me just ask you one more. One more thing about high school, and then I'm gonna let it go because I, believe me, I. I know we got other things to talk about, but for parents who might be compelled to challenge their kids to go smartphone free through, say, like, you know, just delay it until, like, you know, 16, 18, whatever. How do you, how do you sell that? How do you recommend it gets phrased so that it doesn't just come across like, you know, top down management, this is what my highway kind of stuff?

Talmage Erickson (8:53)

You know, I, I wish I had all the parenting knowledge in the world. I really do. And, and the best thing I could think of and the metaphor I always come back to is sometimes there's got to be a Grinch in, in the Christmas story. And if you remember the Grinch, he goes and he steals all the presents and he steals all the joy, so to say, from the community. And guess what happens? They wake up and they sing and they're gathered around the tree and they just love on each other and they're singing songs and they're connected. And I think sometimes as a parent, we're so focused on the short term of, oh my gosh, I'm gonna ruin this relationship. But take a look of a down 2, 3, 4 years. What are you building now for your kid digitally as well as socially, intellectually, emotionally, mentally so that they can find real connection? They can, they can sing down there in Whoville the rest of their life. And that's what we always go back to, is take some risks now as a parent that say, hey, we're gonna do this so that the rest of your life you have a good baseline of what it is to talk to someone in real life, to have eye contact with someone, to have real connection.

Hillary Wilkinson (10:04)

Yeah. Yeah. Great advice from a soon dad to be.

Talmage Erickson (10:08)

That's right.

Hillary Wilkinson (10:09)

That's so exciting. Okay, when we come back, I'm going to ask how to deliver hard messages to kids who just want their own phone and some other helpful hints.

Podcast Narrator (10:22)

Diving into the world of smartphones can be a wild ride for kids and parents alike. Whether your child is getting their first smartphone or has had one for a while, chances are they're still figuring out the do's and don'ts of using a smartphone wisely. Our book is here to help healthy screen habits for tweens and teens. A training workbook to help you use your phone wisely is the tool your child needs to navigate life in the digital world. From tackling poor phone etiquette to addressing social media anxieties and online safety concerns, we have your child covered. Written especially for adolescents, we've put together all the information, tips, hacks and rules to ensure that your child's phone is a useful tool that they control, not the other way around. We explain the whys behind the rules of phone use. We show your child the possible traps and dangers to watch out for, how to prevent them, and how to fix them if your child has made a mistake. We give your child the five core Healthy Screen habits to use daily, protecting them from some of the worst mistakes tweens and teens make while using their phones. This workbook will teach your child how to use their phone as a tool to help them do great things in their one amazing life. And it will make your life so much easier at the same time. Packed with colorful graphics and easy to read content, this resource is a game changer for kids. Don't miss out. Buy your copy of Healthy Screen Habits for Tweens and teens on Amazon.com today

Hillary Wilkinson (11:55)

I'm speaking with Talmage Erickson, a digital wellness educator and advocate, also known as the Screen Guy. Talmage has been doing the work of getting kids and families educated in all areas of digital wellness. And I'm curious. This is, you know what they always say, like research is me search. Well, you know, this is a little bit, a little bit me here, but when you talk to kids, what type of messaging do you find lands best? Like when you're speaking to groups, is it, is it brain science? Is it cautionary tales? Like what. What do you find connects with kids and makes the biggest impact?

Talmage Erickson (12:40)

I. To be honest with you, I, I like to play music and I use music as a way to teach kids. So I, I play the saxophone, I play the, I play the accordion, I sing songs. I'm not a good singer, by the way, but I feel like when you get kids moving and dancing and singing along with you, the brain starts to turn on and they start to think, you know what, maybe this is a good message. So when I go to schools, I present, we talk about some of the digital dangers that we can avoid, a few tips from the digital doctor. And then we sing a few songs about how to live beyond the screen. Some parodies I wrote to some popular songs. And then we ended off with an inspiring story that goes back to what I shared with you about that friend who, who gave me a ride home and inspired me to, to be better and live beyond the screen. And so our messages how can you go out and make a difference in someone's life today by just putting your phone down and looking up?

Hillary Wilkinson (13:34)

Oh, I love it. And I, I think that that type of messaging doesn't just go away with kids. I feel like when you can come from a place of help and hope sprinkled in with some humor and like, wow, you're a genius to Work in that musical connection because I mean it's so silly but like I can, I can spout off camp songs that I learned at like, you know, you know, so it's like those, those songs do have sticking power. I love that.

Talmage Erickson (14:06)

Right. No, I agree. And, and the goal is to also give a practical strategy. So that's not all the fluff. It's not all. And like you said, the practical strategies are what, what work best with, with parents and families and so giving them tools and tips, but also inspiration as they start their digital journeys.

Hillary Wilkinson (14:25)

Yeah, I love that. So we know from studies that people who spend over three hours a day on social media are three times more likely to experience depression and anxiety to get three and three. Can you kind of. Because we do at healthy screen habits, we do like to be research back science based. Can you explain the reason? Kind of just this whole role of dopamine within this cycle and for anybody who needs like a brief refresher. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter which is a chemical messenger within our brain that has to do with like drive and it also follows the pleasure pathway and it's, it's integral to learning. I mean dopamine is like, it's kind of gone from this darling to this bad guy. And I don't mean to cast it in any light. It dopamine. Dopamine is. It's necessary for us to live a human life. But can you sort of explain the role of dopamine and the whole cycle of social media and I'm going to use the word addiction and, and video game addiction and all of that.

Talmage Erickson (15:44)

Great point. And I love that your science based because that's all that digital wellness is, is science based. And research back. Dopamine, like you said, is the neurotransmitter, sends the signal to the brain. It's used for motivation, but also movement. And so I feel like sometimes in pop culture, social media culture we, we have this phrase, this dopamine depletion and it sounds like, oh my gosh, everyone's gonna die. And I think a different phrase we could use is actually dopamine desensitization. When you say depletion, almost sounds like the brain has a fixed amount of dopamine that you can only use and once it's used up, you're dead. No, I don't know. But dopamine desensitization means that because you're constantly overloading that reward circuit, some of those receptors start to become numb to the increased amount of dopamine and so they start to shut off. Now we use the analogy of think of a few boats on a lake and some docks. The docks are the, are the receptors and the boats are dopamine. What happens when you have so many boats on the lake? Well, the docks start to shut down and say, sorry, boats, you're. You're on your own. And so when we do these, instant gratification, high dopamine activities, like scrolling pornography use, playing video games endlessly and other dope, high dopamine activities, we're overloading the lake with boats. And what our brain says is, oh my gosh, we have to regulate this. So we're shutting down some of the docks. And that's why some of the mundane tasks of every day, like going for a walk or conversations with a friend or doing chores are boring for most kids because they're so used to that instant, oh my gosh, this is so exciting. So exciting, so exciting. Dopamine isn't necessarily all about reward. It's more about, hey, this was worth it, so do it again. And that's the change we need to understand is, is dopamine is neither good or bad. It's not like when you look at your phone, you need more dopamine. It's the fact that your brain likes and motivates you to chase things that make it feel good. And so dopamine is that motivator.

Hillary Wilkinson (17:57)

Well put. On the Screen Guy website, there's a, there's a cautionary phrase that I immediately kind of looked at and was like, what is that? And it's don't be a 96er. And can you explain what that is?

Talmage Erickson (18:12)

There's so many different studies or, or I wish, I wish I had all the research on mine. But a 96er is someone who picks up their phone 96 times a day.

Hillary Wilkinson (18:24)

Yeah.

Talmage Erickson (18:24)

And what we've come up with is a 96er is, is not what you want to do. So the average person picks up their phone every five to seven minutes. And so when they use their phone every five to seven minutes, they're only using it for about two minutes, which means they don't have any purpose where they pick phone. They're just picking it up to pick it up. And so when you say don't be a 96er, it means, hey, out of sight, out of mind. Put your phone away in a drawer in a desk or, or in a different room and then be present with your family. So don't be a 96er.

Hillary Wilkinson (18:56)

Yeah, yeah, I. It's putting the intention behind it. Yeah, we, yeah, don't be a 96er or when you, when you pick up your phone. We try to encourage parents to narrate their use of the phone so that, you know, because we apply our lived truths to what we see happening in the world. And for, for most children at a young age, the phone is used for entertainment purposes. Right. So anytime they see somebody on a phone, what they're thinking it's being used for is for entertainment purposes because that's their truth. Okay. So when you kind of can open the top of your brain and narrate what you're doing on it, it also creates that. Don't be a 96 or friction of like, what's my purpose when you have to apply. I'm going to, I'm going to look on the phone because I need to see if Practice starts at 3:00pm or 5:00pm Coach, you know, talked to me earlier and I don't know what. So it just, it, it injects into your dialogue and your use some purpose and some intention behind the phone use. So I. Thanks. Thanks. I feel like you and I could just sit and banter.

Talmage Erickson (20:24)

Yeah, totally.

Hillary Wilkinson (20:26)

Okay. So we have to take another short break, but when we come back, I'm going to ask Talmadge for his Healthy Screen hab.

Podcast Narrator (20:35)

At what age should I give my child a smartphone? How much screen time should I allow each day? What are the best filters to use on my family's devices? Sound familiar? These questions and more are answered at the Healthy Screen Habits website. We've curated the best articles, books, videos, and many other resources to help you figure out how you want to use technology in your life. Click on the Awareness section to learn about the issues and dangers surrounding screen use. Then click on the Tools page to download printables you can use with your family today, including the Healthy Screen Habits Family technology plan. Visit our website at www.healthyscreenhabits.org for the resources and tools you need to get started.

Hillary Wilkinson (21:24)

I'm speaking with Talmage Erickson from the Screen Guy Talmage on every episode of the Healthy Screen Habits podcast. I ask for a healthy screen habit, and this is going to be a tip or takeaway that listeners can put into practice nearly immediately in their own home. What is yours?

Talmage Erickson (21:47)

You probably heard this before, but just to reiterate, it's, it's the process of grayscaling your phone. Apps are designed to be wow, pizzazz, wow, boom, pow, exciting. And so they make us want to click. What happens when you grayscale your phone is, things start to become a little less exciting and you're less likely to click on them. So you go to your settings, you go to Accessibility, you go to Display, and then color filters. And then once you do that, you're able to grayscale, and that just turns your whole iPhone or smartphone gray. It's going to be boring. But that's the point. The point is for for it to be boring so you're focused and your purpose filled on your screen and then you can get back to real connection.

Hillary Wilkinson (22:30)

Love it. As always, you can find a complete transcript of this show by visiting the show notes for this episode, as well as a link to more info about the Screen Guy. You do this by going to healthyscreenhabits.org click the podcast button and find this episode. Talmage thank you so much for the work you're doing today. For you, just sharing what life is like, the the potential when we kind of gain control of these screens.

Talmage Erickson (23:05)

Again, thank you Hillary. It's a pleasure to be on with you. Appreciate it.

Hillary Wilkinson (23:12)

For more information, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Healthy Screen Habits. Make sure to Visit our website, healthyscreenhabits.org where you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts or via RSS so you'll never miss an episode. It's free, it's fun, and you get a healthy new screen habit each week while you're at it. If you found value in this show, we'd appreciate you giving us a quick rating. It really does help other people find us and spread the word of Healthy Screen habits. Or if you'd simply like to tell a friend, we'd love that too. I so appreciate you spending your time with me this week and I look forward to learning more healthy habits together.