2025 Update: Buzz

Summary

Heavyweight: 2025 Update – "Buzz"

Release Date: June 12, 2025 | Host: Pushkin Industries

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Introduction

In the evocative episode titled "Buzz" from Heavyweight, host Jonathan Goldstein embarks on a deeply personal journey to reconcile longstanding family tensions. Celebrating the podcast's past achievements with encore presentations, Jonathan revisits the very first episode of Heavyweight, which centers around his relationship with his father, Buzz Goldstein. This episode delves into familial estrangement, the complexities of sibling rivalry, and the quest for forgiveness, offering listeners an intimate exploration of unresolved emotions and the possibility of healing.

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Backstory: A Fractured Brotherhood

At the heart of the episode lies the strained relationship between Jonathan's father, Buzz, and his uncle Sheldon. For over four decades, the two brothers have been estranged, ever since a bitter fallout two decades prior during their mother's funeral. Jonathan recounts childhood memories of their competitive and contentious dynamics, illustrating how these early experiences sowed seeds of resentment and misunderstanding.

Notable Quote:

Jonathan Goldstein (00:25): "Today we're going to be listening to the very first Heavyweight. An episode called Buzz. And it's an episode that's personal to you."

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The Catalyst for Reconciliation

Driven by concern for his father's growing list of regrets and the diminishing time they have left together, Jonathan decides to intervene. Inspired by the original "Buzz" episode, he leverages his skills as a podcast host to facilitate a conversation aimed at mending the fractured relationship between Buzz and Sheldon.

Jonathan shares his motivation:

Jonathan Goldstein (01:28): "So when you have mammoth gifts like this, I mean, you have a responsibility to share it."

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Initiating Contact: Overcoming Resistance

Reaching out to Sheldon proves challenging. Initially resistant, Sheldon expresses apathy towards reconnecting:

Sheldon Goldstein (07:24): "You know what it is at this point with him, I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's even anger. He's past anger and he's past any feelings of animosity. He's passed that. He just doesn't care."

Despite Sheldon's reluctance, Jonathan persists, highlighting the importance of familial bonds and the limited time they have to reconcile. With the help of Buzz's mother, they arrange a tentative meeting date.

Notable Quote:

Jonathan Goldstein (06:20): "It worries me because there's not a lot of time left."

---

The Reunion: Navigating Emotional Turbulence

Buzz and Jonathan travel from Montreal and New York to Fort Lauderdale to meet Sheldon. The reunion is fraught with tension, humor, and unresolved emotions. Upon arrival, Buzz exhibits a mix of excitement and apprehension, while Sheldon remains guarded and somewhat detached.

Notable Quote:

Buzz Goldstein (19:14): "No, it's gonna be strange. Yeah, it's gonna be very strange. I mean, the man is a stranger to me now, and yet he's my brother. You understand? It's a very strange feeling."

As they sit down, initial conversations are light-hearted, with both brothers exchanging jokes and reminiscing about shared memories. However, underlying tensions soon surface as trivial disagreements escalate into heated arguments over past events, such as their mother's funeral arrangements and childhood memories.

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Confronting the Past: The Turning Point

Jonathan recognizes that surface-level disputes are hindering genuine reconciliation. He shifts the conversation to a pivotal incident from 1939—the day their mother left them—hoping to uncover the root of their animosity.

He poses the critical question:

Jonathan Goldstein (24:22): "What happened?"

Sheldon shares his painful memories, revealing feelings of favoritism and neglect:

Sheldon Goldstein (35:03): "I always felt that I got the short end of the stick."

Buzz adds his perspective, acknowledging the emotional scars their father left on Sheldon:

Buzz Goldstein (36:06): "You weren't a failure. That's the thing that I'm saying. But all I'm saying is that emotionally, he left that an impact on you."

This vulnerability marks a significant shift in their interaction, allowing both brothers to empathize with each other's experiences and begin the process of forgiveness.

Notable Quote:

Sheldon Goldstein (36:15): "It took a long time for me to get out of that emotion. And now I'm at peace with myself. I can talk about him and laugh about it."

---

Signs of Healing: Moving Forward Together

As the brothers continue their conversation, moments of camaraderie emerge. They share anecdotes, laugh over past antics, and even engage in light-hearted banter about contemporary topics. This newfound openness signifies the thawing of old grudges and the rekindling of brotherly bonds.

Jonathan observes the transformation:

Jonathan Goldstein (38:14): "Because we're not getting any younger. What's down the road? I'm 80, he's 85. I mean, because there was a lot of water under the bridge and we want to close that bridge now."

The meeting concludes without dramatic resolutions but with a sense of mutual understanding and the possibility of future interactions built on a more honest foundation.

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Conclusion: Reflections on Family and Forgiveness

"Buzz" serves as a poignant exploration of how time and initiative can bridge deep-seated familial divides. Through Jonathan's compassionate mediation, listeners witness the gradual dismantling of barriers between Buzz and Sheldon, underscoring the podcast's central theme of reclaiming and healing the past.

The episode encapsulates the essence of Heavyweight: confronting unresolved issues with empathy, humor, and a genuine desire for closure. It resonates with anyone grappling with familial tensions, offering hope that reconciliation is possible, even after decades of estrangement.

Final Notable Quote:

Sheldon Goldstein (39:58): "Safe trip, both of you."

---

Key Takeaways

• The Power of Initiation: Jonathan's proactive approach demonstrates how taking the first step can open doors to healing.

• Understanding Multiple Perspectives: Hearing both Buzz's and Sheldon's viewpoints provides a comprehensive understanding of their familial conflict.

• The Importance of Time: Recognizing that reconciliation is timely and crucial, especially as both brothers age.

• Humor as a Bridge: Utilizing humor eases the tension and fosters a more relaxed environment for meaningful dialogue.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jonathan Goldstein (00:25): "Today we're going to be listening to the very first Heavyweight. An episode called Buzz. And it's an episode that's personal to you."

• Jonathan Goldstein (01:28): "So when you have mammoth gifts like this, I mean, you have a responsibility to share it."

• Sheldon Goldstein (07:24): "You know what it is at this point with him, I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's even anger. He's past anger and he's past any feelings of animosity. He's passed that. He just doesn't care."

• Jonathan Goldstein (06:20): "It worries me because there's not a lot of time left."

• Buzz Goldstein (19:14): "No, it's gonna be strange. Yeah, it's gonna be very strange. I mean, the man is a stranger to me now, and yet he's my brother. You understand? It's a very strange feeling."

• Sheldon Goldstein (35:03): "I always felt that I got the short end of the stick."

• Sheldon Goldstein (36:15): "It took a long time for me to get out of that emotion. And now I'm at peace with myself. I can talk about him and laugh about it."

• Jonathan Goldstein (38:14): "Because we're not getting any younger. What's down the road? I'm 80, he's 85. I mean, because there was a lot of water under the bridge and we want to close that bridge now."

• Sheldon Goldstein (39:58): "Safe trip, both of you."

---

Heavyweight continues to excel in its mission to address personal and often painful histories, offering a blend of humor, sincerity, and storytelling that makes each episode both relatable and profoundly moving.

Transcript

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Pushkin. Hello, Khalilah Holt. Don't scare me like that.

[Khalilah Holt]

I'm sorry.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

My God. Welcome to the studio.

[Khalilah Holt]

Thank you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So now that we find ourselves at our new home at Pushkin Industries.

[Khalilah Holt]

Like you're reading it for the first.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Time, we're celebrating some of our past accomplishments in the form of encore presentations.

[Khalilah Holt]

Encore.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Bravissimo. Today we're going to be listening to the very first Heavyweight. An episode called Buzz.

[Khalilah Holt]

And it's an episode that's personal to you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Spoiler alert.

[Khalilah Holt]

Sorry.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes, it is. It is. Buzz is my father.

[Khalilah Holt]

I really enjoy your dad. Whenever I get to hear from him, it warms my heart.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. My father has. Well, I'm not gonna say that my wife married me because of my father, but I'm sure it didn't hurt because she's a very big Columbo fan. Peter Falk. And my father sounds a lot like he's of that generation. In fact, he would have grown up in Brooklyn around the same time as Peter Falk. But anyway, yeah, this was the blueprint for Heavyweight. And it was out of this episode that I thought maybe I could use my powers of interlocution to. To help others as I was helping my family. Why not spread the wealth?

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah. You thought I'm so good at this that I gotta do more.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When you have mammoth gifts like this, I mean, you have a responsibility to share it.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So. Well, without further ado, let's listen to.

[Khalilah Holt]

The episode and stick around after for an update from your dad.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But first. Oh, but first, a word from our sponsors.

[Khalilah Holt]

Thank you, sponsors.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Ms. Holt, before you go, if I could just ask you one more thing. That's a very interesting T shirt that you wear in there. The band Pavement. Mrs. Colombo's a very big fan.

[Buzz Goldstein]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Justin Richmond]

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[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

From Gimlet Media, this Is Jonathan Goldstein your old pal?

[Unknown]

Is that what it's called? Gimlet. Gimlet Media.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's correct.

[Unknown]

It sounds like giblets. The inside of a chicken. Like, all the innards.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Well, everybody loves giblets.

[Unknown]

Ew.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, shit.

[Unknown]

They're my kids.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, guys, I'm up here. Do you know what my new podcast is about?

[Unknown]

No, I don't know anything about it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Each week, I travel into people's pasts to help them repair something that's been troubling them.

[Unknown]

Mm.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm sort of like a therapist.

[Unknown]

Like a therapist.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So. Yeah. Do you find that funny?

[Unknown]

I just think supportive.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's the laughter of support.

[Unknown]

I think it's great. I think it's great.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you have any questions for me about what my show is and what it's gonna be like?

[Unknown]

What's the name of your show? What's the name of your show? Yes, we're gonna go now, but Jonathan's just about to tell me the name of his new show. As soon as he tells me, I'm gonna bang down on him in five.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, no, wait.

[Unknown]

Do you remember when we used to do that?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Let's hang up the phone on each other. Okay. Ready? Yes.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The name of the show is Heavyweight.

[Unknown]

Heavyweight.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You get it?

[Unknown]

Two, One, Time.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Say good. Hello from Gimlet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, Buzz.

[Unknown]

Hello?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, dad.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Hi, Johnny.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, how you doing?

[Unknown]

Good. You?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Good, good, good. Yumtif Shanapova. Aksameach aksameh.

[Unknown]

What's that mean?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm not sure.

[Unknown]

Oh.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh. This is my father, Buzz. I'm calling him at his home in Montreal. And the reason we're talking crazy talk is because it's Yom Kippur, the Jewish day of atonement, which seems as good a day as any to talk with him about forgiveness. So I wanted to. I wanted to ask you something, and I just wanted to gauge your interest. Yeah. How would you feel about paying your brother Sheldon a visit?

[Unknown]

I have no feelings by. I'm not really interested.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're not?

[Unknown]

No.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

My father, Buzz, is 80, and his brother Sheldon, his only sibling, is 85. And for the past 40 years, they've pretty much been on the outs. My father lives in Montreal, and. And Sheldon lives in Florida. And the last time they saw each other over 20 years ago was at their mother's funeral when they had a fight over the details of the arrangements. Since then, they've hardly spoken. It worries me because there's not a lot of time left. And I don't want my father to have regrets when the subject of his brother comes up, as it often has over the years, my father feels competing things. He grows angry or defensive. But other times he'll become sad and remorseful. And it's the sorrow and the remorse that I like best, because it's these feelings that I believe speak to his better self, the self I want to encourage. I'm not surprised that you're not jumping at the idea, but I'm a little surprised that you're as against the idea.

[Unknown]

Yeah, times passed. He hasn't shown much interest, so I'm respecting that and I leave him alone.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What he did do was he. He called you on your 80th birthday not so long ago. And you felt good about that.

[Unknown]

You called him on his 80th birthday.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This kind of tit for tat accounting is what always gets in the way. There's been a competition between the brothers since I was a kid. I remember how in my grandmother's small New York kitchen, Sheldon and Buzz got into an argument about who could do the most push ups. And the next thing I knew, my father was pulling off his shirt and dropping to the kitchen floor in his undershirt. My mother, not used to seeing this side of him, stood over my father, flapping a dish towel hysterically while begging him to the point of tears to please stop. Now you go, my father said, rising from the floor when he was done. But Sheldon shook his head with a smile. It was like he didn't even think my father was worth the effort.

[Unknown]

You know what it is at this point with him, I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's even anger. He's past anger and he's past any feelings of animosity. He's passed that. He just doesn't care.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You know, that's apathy. And I mean, sometimes at least hate or love their emotions. Apathy is nothing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You know what, Johnny? As a child, even When I was 10, when I was 9 and 8, I was crazy about him.

We had a great.

You know, I loved him. He was the older brother. He was. Hello?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm listening.

[Unknown]

You know, I just looked up to him and he had all the friends. Sometimes he'd take me along with him and he was good. Somebody tried to call here, binging me here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Don't you see, Buzz? It's Father Time. Who is binging you here? And Buzz loses track of time. Air conditioners remain boxed all through July and expired coupons from the mid-90s make Plump his wallet. So I worry he'll put off reaching out to Sheldon until it's too late. The most complicated question, the one I keep coming back to, is, how did the bad blood begin? And there are many versions. An ill fated trip to Montreal, where Sheldon felt slighted about having to stay in my father's basement. An ill fated trip to New York, where my father felt slighted about having to stay in Sheldon's attic. Rude words spoken to each other's wives. In one version of the story, Sheldon's refusal to bring a table to my bris almost resulted in my being circumcised on an ironing board. But in the version being told today, my father was asked by Sheldon to pay more than his fair share for their mother's funeral.

[Unknown]

And I said, you always work in some kind of an angle. So he got furious. He got furious. He started screaming into the phone, go to hell. Drop dead. He was that. That was how that ended. But I feel he's the kind of guy that he got. He has angles like that, you know? He has angles. I always felt I was on the up and up with him, and he wasn't with me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

If you got a stronger sense that he was interested in seeing you, then would you.

[Unknown]

Yes. Yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You would be more interested to see him?

[Unknown]

I wouldn't say this house, though. That's out of the question.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, quick sidebar. Anytime I've ever raised the prospect of visiting Sheldon, no matter how hypothetical the scenario, my father always makes a point of insisting how, no matter what, he would not stay in Sheldon's house, even if he was invited to, which, I should point out, he never is.

[Unknown]

I wouldn't stay at his house.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How come you?

[Unknown]

I wouldn't stay there. I mean, it's not my thing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How come you always bring that up? I mean, normally when someone goes to visit someone that they haven't seen in decades, they'll stay at a hotel. You know, I would stay at a.

[Unknown]

Motel or somewhere near his place.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, no, we get a place, you know, with an ice machine and, you know why you want to.

[Unknown]

You're interested in making a trip.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I mean, I'm interested. Do you think that there's anything to be gained in seeing him?

[Unknown]

Hmm. I guess there's something. You know, you share your common experience and talk about the old days, and you. There are things that only he and I can remember. You know?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You know, you. What you could do is you could call him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And see what. What what, what his attitude is. You know, it depends on, you know, how. How you feel, what kind of reception you get.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, I mean, I would, I would be happy to do that. My kids.

[Unknown]

I like your initial suggestion that you call him, feel him out and see what he's like.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, I didn't suggest that. But you. You suggested that.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I like that. Just. You'll give me an honest. You'll give me an honest reaction.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm happy to do it. But I mean, what, what, what are you looking for? From, from. What do you want to hear from him?

[Unknown]

I miss my brother. I would like to see him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay.

[Unknown]

That's all.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay.

[Buzz Goldstein]

You understand?

[Unknown]

And you come back on me with an honest evaluation.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Hello?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sheldon?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yes, speaking.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hi.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I was quite a shock getting your phone call. You said, John, I. My hearing is not that great.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

And when I heard the first message, I'm saying, who the heck is that? I don't know anybody by that name.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sheldon now lives outside of Fort Lauderdale, but my few memories of him are from when he lived in upstate New York. I remember he lived in a trailer. I remember that he worked at a local prison, that he smoked cigars, that he looked a little like my father, but was hunched, like the world was weighing down on him. And he always wore this expression on his face that seemed to say, you gotta be kidding me. You're keeping okay? You're keeping occupied?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yeah, I read a lot. I go to the gym. I go shopping, you know, here and there, little things here and there.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And so you still go. How often do you go to the gym?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Three times a week.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wow. And what kind of stuff do you do there?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Well, I do about 20 minutes of aerobics and then I do a little weight training. I try to flirt a little with the women there.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, yeah, My father also goes to the gym. That's a part of his routine. Also, he was happy to hear from you on his 80th birthday.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yeah, well, he didn't call me on my 85th though.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Titan, meet tat. Yeah, like so. You know, maybe we could go out for dinner. I don't know, that kind of thing.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Uh huh.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Well, what.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

What kind of a time frame are we talking about here?

[Unknown]

I don't know. Our lives have been much different. I don't know how much we have to have in common anymore.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

We don't have. We don't have much in common anymore except the fact that we're elderly and retired. Other than that, I don't know what we have in common.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I guess you have your past in common? Yes.

[Unknown]

I'll tell you honestly, I'm not a very sentimental person. Being a pragmatist, I take things the way they are. I try not to dwell upon the past, and I try not to take people the way I remember them, but as they are.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you think that makes things easier?

[Unknown]

Makes things easier for me, yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do other people around you sometime. Does it make it harder for other people around you ever.

[Unknown]

To be honest with you, I've been. In the last few years, I've been a loner. You would basically almost call me a recluse. I don't socialize with many people, and I really don't give a damn what anybody thinks.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And contrary to popular belief, I like being alone by myself. I get along with myself very well.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Look, I don't want to be rude or anything, but I want to go have my lunch.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fine. It's fine. Sheldon, I appreciate your talking to me, and you would be amenable to spending some time.

[Unknown]

Why not? We are brothers. I mean, we're not close or anything, but, you know, we're not going to have a chance to see each other much in the future.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. Is that anything that you think about?

[Unknown]

Not much, no.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And so I call my father back and let him know that Sheldon is amenable. And because I know that for my father, the days tend to pile up like unboxed air conditioners, I have my mother get on the phone to help nail down a firm travel date.

[Unknown]

And Daddy wants to go.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

If dad wants to go. If he wants to go.

[Unknown]

Does he want to go next weekend?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We don't have to go on the weekend. We can go during the week.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it comes as, you know. He caught me off guard. How about if. I'll call you Wednesday or Thursday. How's that?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Today's Monday. Or. Yeah. Or even if you feel like calling tomorrow, you can call me.

[Unknown]

Yeah, okay. I'll probably call you at the latest Thursday.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Did you get the Thursday at the latest. That's three days from today.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay.

[Buzz Goldstein]

I have to.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You do what you want to do, you call me.

[Unknown]

But I'll call you Thursday.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Coming up after the break. Thursday. And so on Thursday, possibly with a little nudging from my mother, Buzz agrees. And then my father and I are off to Florida to visit my Uncle Sheldon.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Press where to? And then type. You have an address?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, I do.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

My dad and I meet up at the Fort Lauderdale airport. I flew from New York and my dad from Montreal. My father's all dressed up, wearing a faux suede sports jacket that I've never seen him in. We grab our airport rental and Prepare for the two hour drive to Sheldon in the 90 degree heat. It's immediately made clear that faux suede might not have been the best fashion choice.

[Buzz Goldstein]

It's like we're on a safari here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

On the road to Sheldon's. My father will experience a spectrum of feelings as we first set out. There's excitement, you know, My brother was.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Funny in a lot of ways. I could laugh. We're gonna have laughs with him, you know what I mean? He's a very funny man.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

A half an hour in and there's bitterness.

[Buzz Goldstein]

We invited him to your bar mitzvah and he returned a very cold card. Sorry, we will not be attending. You know, so mean. You know what I mean? Even the writing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

An hour in. And how is Buzz feeling?

[Buzz Goldstein]

I'm relaxed.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm good.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Kind of old to get anxious, you know what I mean?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

A half an hour to. Sheldon's a little bit apprehensive now. Yeah. Ten minutes to Sheldon's and Buzz is feeling all right. Yeah. You're feeling a little.

[Buzz Goldstein]

No, it's gonna be strange. Yeah, it's gonna be very strange. I mean, the man is a stranger to me now, and yet he's my brother. You understand? It's a very strange feeling.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Buzz Goldstein]

I wonder if he's getting nervous.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Maybe.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Cause he's waiting for us, right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. You all set?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yeah. Oh, it's hot.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's really hot. Yeah. Sheldon lives in the corner house on a quiet suburban street. Ring the bell, I guess.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Is this his door?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'll double check.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Maybe.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, here he is.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Jonathan, this is to meet you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, come back.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Come in.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Thank you.

[Buzz Goldstein]

I smell the good smell of cigar.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yeah. Lately, I've become a monk. Me and my pussycat.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, you got a cat. After all the years and the worry and the dread, things seem to be going swimmingly. We sit down at Sheldon's kitchen table and my father gets right into it.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Now, there's things I want to know. You said that Rainey died.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yeah, she did die.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The dead are a good place to begin. As a subject, they're easily agreed upon and not likely to spark a fight.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yankel died.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yankel died. He was the youngest brother.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Oh, he died long ago.

[Buzz Goldstein]

He died, eh?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Oh.

[Buzz Goldstein]

You know who died?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Who?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Hoffman.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Hoffman. A real prick.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yeah, I didn't know him that well. I didn't know him. Yeah.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yeah, Knish.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Oh, that's shocking.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yeah. See he was fat.

[Buzz Goldstein]

He was fat. Redhead.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Redhead, right?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yes. Knish. Yeah. Remember. Remember Johnny? Johnny was a sex maniac.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Johnny. Oh, he would fuck a dog on the street. If he saw the dog, he'd try to fuck the dog. Can I get you guys a cold beer?

[Buzz Goldstein]

I'd like a beer.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'll have a beer. Even though they're in their 80s, Sheldon and Buzz still possess voices and temperaments suited to shouting out Brooklyn tenement windows. While my voice I'll have a beer. Is best suited to asking a waitress if there will be a sharing charge. I defy forgot about that. Sorry. Case in point. This is Sheldon accidentally swiping a portable microphone receiver off the kitchen table and me trying to smooth things over.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Take this off, will you? It's annoying.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Here, just put it in the. In your pocket there.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Just take it off, would you, please? Thank you. Thank you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Over the next couple of days, my testes will flee like frightened cockroaches upward, ascending to heights not seen since the bar mitzvah that Sheldon was not attending. And while we're on the subject of testes, here's Sheldon reminiscing about the time he was examined for a rupture by their family doctor.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Me and Wiley Rosen were joining the weightlifting club. So you had to be tested for a rupture? I remember he put his hand under my balls. I started laughing so hard I pissed right in his hand.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Over the years, I've seen my father in the role of husband, uncle and grandfather, but I've never really seen him in the role of younger brother. How odd to see it now at 80, he sits beside Sheldon with this expression I've never seen on his face. It's wide eyed, sweet and deferential. But as the day wears on, Sheldon and Buzz begin to squabble over their memories, fighting over every little detail.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Remember the hullabaloo we had with the hair dyer? That heavyset girl?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

She's a manicurist.

[Buzz Goldstein]

She was a hair dyer.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Manicurist.

[Buzz Goldstein]

No, she was a hair dyer. Here's what happened. She went over to Irving's.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

They even argue over the death of their grandmother.

[Buzz Goldstein]

I found her body. I opened the door. No, my mother was across the street of Greenberg.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I remember walking.

[Buzz Goldstein]

I went in on her and I.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Knew she was dead.

[Buzz Goldstein]

I never saw a dead body in my life, but I knew she was dead. Sure.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So, wait, so you found her or you found her?

[Buzz Goldstein]

I remember looking in on the room to see how she knew. I said it was awfully quiet.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I found her, but let him take the car?

[Buzz Goldstein]

No, I'm not some credit.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The whole afternoon is like this. Every subject, even their dead grandmother, somehow becomes fodder for another pissing match. They're burning up all this time with small talk when what they need is some big talk. In particular, they need to address a story that I know holds a great deal of meaning for my father. It took place in 1939, on the day their mother left them. I've only ever heard the story from my father, never from Sheldon. I wanted to ask what you remember. What? Your perspective.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

All I remember that time was when Pop was smacking her around and she ran out in the hall in her.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Slip, fighting in the hall.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

And the next he was smacking around.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Smacking her around?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

She ran out?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Buzz Goldstein]

So what happened the next morning?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

The next morning?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Look in the closet. Her clothes were gone. She left.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What happened after this, and my father's telling is that his mother returned soon after she left with a policeman in tow.

[Buzz Goldstein]

And he. They came back to try to get you. They wanted you to come back with them.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

And where were you?

[Buzz Goldstein]

I was there. But they were trying to drag you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Out of the house.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

They weren't trying to grin me?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No.

[Buzz Goldstein]

I could stay with my father and grandmother.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This is the point of the story for my father. It proves once and for all how his mother loved Sheldon more than she loved him. Sheldon didn't move out with her, and after a year their mother returned and together, Buzz and Sheldon grew up under the same roof, in the same bedroom, often sleeping under the same blankets, each knowing who the mother had chosen and each having to do their best to carry on and live life with the burden of that knowledge. A couple times during the day, I ask them why they haven't spoken in so long and they both insist, maybe out of embarrassment, that they do talk, just not often. But it isn't true. In fact, my father learned of Sheldon's wife's death many years after the fact, and then only from me. Sheldon's daughter got in touch through Facebook and we made a phone date where she caught me up on her life in Sheldon's. And a few nights later, while over at my parents for dinner, I told my father of his sister in law's death. There was a terrible look that fell across his face, one of sadness, but something else too. Maybe shock over just how far he and Sheldon had drifted. I found out about Judy. About her death.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Who?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Your wife.

[Buzz Goldstein]

I didn't know about it either until you told me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Didn't I tell you?

[Buzz Goldstein]

No.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

You didn't know about it.

[Buzz Goldstein]

No, we didn't know. We didn't know.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

She was sick about two years, Judy.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Too bad.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Well, when she got the diagnosis, she was already stage four. What did I know about cancer? So the surgeon. So I said, well, doctor, how did the surgery go? Oh, he said, it went very well. But the cancer is in her liver now.

[Buzz Goldstein]

It spreads.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I said, it's in her liver. I said, what? And on top of that, I'm driving home. I'm all fucked up and I'm spaced out, and my driver window's open and some kids pull up alongside me and flip a lit cigarette into my car. You know where I usually eat when I come in by myself by the bar? They got a waitress there who always waits on me. She takes good care of me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

For dinner, Sheldon takes us to a local outback steakhouse. As people walk by Heavy, he provides a running commentary of an elderly couple.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Don't get like that, couple. Whatever you did, it's time for the.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Execution of an overweight couple.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Boy, are they fat. People are fat today.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's as though he's sharpening his wit, readying it for the main event, teasing my dad about Canada.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I don't know how you could take Canada on your rant.

[Buzz Goldstein]

We got nice neighbors.

[Unknown]

It's nice.

[Buzz Goldstein]

It's okay. What was I going to say?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

You're living in the same place for how many years?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Oh, about over 35, 38 years, something like that. I'm happy there.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

For my father, I know this is a touchy subject. Believing, as he always has, that Sheldon looks down on him for the dinkiness of his Canadian life and home. It's like a constant reminder of just who is second best. Later, my father will repeat Sheldon's words. You're still living in that same place, he'll say, for how many years? But just then, I watch my father clench and unclench his jaw as he does when he is brooding. I know he's trying to take the high road, trying not to ruin the evening.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

That's $200.30. Are they kidding?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sheldon invites us back to his place for cookies, but my father says he isn't up for it. As we walk through the restaurant parking lot to the car, my father is silent. I find myself feeling protective of him. After midnight, lying awake in our hotel, my father insisted we stay at one. I lay in bed thinking about that day in 1939 when my grandmother came back. For Sheldon. Not my father, for my father. Not only did it push him away from Sheldon, making him feel jealous and resentful. But it also cast a shadow over the rest of his life, causing him to always feel passed over. He's mellowed with age, but as a kid, I saw it come out in all kinds of ways. Always sensitive to slights, ready for a fight at the smallest perceived offense. I wonder if there's a different way for my father to see things. If there is. The only living person in this world who can help is Sheldon. When their mom left, Sheldon was 9, my father, 5. Sheldon would have understood a lot more than my father. Yesterday, Buzz and Sheldon talked like a couple of kids who used to play stickball in the old neighborhood. Today, if me and my big, fat, meddling yap have any sway, they'll have a chance to talk as men, as brothers even. Because if not now, when? Day two.

[Buzz Goldstein]

This is a damn good cigar he sent me. Oh, Dominican Republic. They make a damn good cigar in Dominican Republic. What are you talking about?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Despite the difficulties of last night, the coin is flipped back to the good side. Sheldon offers my father a cigar. And with the cigar, some cigar talk. Some pretty foul cigar talk.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

We're riding on Queens Boulevard. Johnny's in the backseat with the who. He's got his naked ass up in the air and he's humping. The funny thing is, we had to stop for a light and there's a truck driver sitting in the cab. Up high. That was funny.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Have you guys missed each other?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

What?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you miss each other?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

You know, he asks the weirdest question. What? Is he abroad?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No. I mean, I don't know. That's, you know. Eager to prove to my Uncle Sheldon that in spite of the fact I'm wearing my wife's travel deodorant, I am indeed not abroad. I allow them to return to more pressing matters. They're prostates.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

The guy says, Jesus. Says your prostate feels like the moon craters in there. He said. He said, thank you, doctor. He was complimenting me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So if I could steer this away from the prostates. So my father said that it's significant to him to have come. What do you say?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I agree with whatever he said, but what about you?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I said I agree with whatever he said. Do you want a written contract?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No.

[Unknown]

No.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm happy for that. It feels like I'm getting a taste of what growing up with Sheldon might have been like. So again, I make my move. So I have some questions just about, because the stories that I know from my father. But I'm curious what your take is, because you Were older. Do you remember what was going on when your mom. When your mother left originally? Like what, What, Why? And what was going on?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Didn't you cover this ground before yesterday?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But from my father's perspective, the way I understood it was always, you were the favorite. Did you. Did you feel that way? At this point, Sheldon's face suddenly softens.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I always felt that I got the short end of the stick.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yeah, but you. You have. You were kind of a favorite with my mom.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Yeah, maybe with mom because maybe temperamentally we were closer than I was with my father. My father never gave me spit. Did you ever get any money from my father?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Can't remember.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

You never got a dime?

[Buzz Goldstein]

No. Can't remember.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

You never? One time I sprained my ankle so bad.

[Buzz Goldstein]

That was. That was terrible.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I laid in that bed.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Man, he was.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

He says to me, you lazy bum. Yeah, man, he went off on me.

[Buzz Goldstein]

That time he took Sheldon. Once Sheldon happened to say the word.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

He came in with that strap swinging with the buckle.

[Buzz Goldstein]

And, you know, I could understand it, leaving us a feeling of resentment and dislike.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Hey, that was his way of communicating with us. Smack, smack. And then.

[Buzz Goldstein]

What a way. Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Was he easier on you, do you think?

[Buzz Goldstein]

It wasn't that easy. But he was tough on Sheldon, wasn't he?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I know you were closer to him than I was. A lot of things that went on, you don't understand, really, what was going on.

[Buzz Goldstein]

No, I didn't see you had a different take.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Why are you. Are you surprised by.

[Buzz Goldstein]

But I was a kid. I didn't understand it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But you didn't know that Sheldon was getting it so bad.

[Buzz Goldstein]

No.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

In Buzz's telling, their father was always a more or less benign, childish figure, incapable of expressing his feelings and so given to temper tantrums. For Buzz, it was their mother who was the manipulator, the woman who played the brothers off each other. But hearing Sheldon's take, it sounds like maybe their mother didn't come to take Sheldon because she loved him best, but simply because he needed more protecting from their father. For the first time during our trip, I can see my father considering Sheldon's point of view, actually taking it in. I know it's intense for him because he can't even meet Sheldon's eyes. Instead, he looks at me, addresses his comments to me.

[Buzz Goldstein]

You know, it's sad that my father had such a negative impact on him. You know, just awful because he had so much going for him. He was a wonderful son. He worked hard. He was a good boy. He went to school you're talking like.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I'm a failure in life.

[Buzz Goldstein]

No, you weren't a failure. That's the thing that I'm saying. You weren't a failure. But all I'm saying is that emotionally, he left that an impact on you.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

It took a long time for me to get out of that emotion. And now I'm at peace with myself. I can talk about him and laugh about it. Now I want peace, quiet. I'm happy living by myself.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Are you lonely, Shelby?

[Sheldon Goldstein]

No.

[Buzz Goldstein]

No.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The last time my father saw my grandfather in full health, my dad was visiting from Canada. My grandfather asked my father to drive him to the cemetery to visit his parents grave. And once there, my grandfather wept inconsolably. Later that day he would succumb to a stroke and shortly after be moved to a nursing home. With Sheldon being more local, the burden of my grandfather's care fell mainly to Sheldon. It seems like a lot of the family's burdens fell to Sheldon.

[Buzz Goldstein]

They put a lot of the responsibility on him that my dad should have been taking that responsibility and he shouldered that.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Who's gonna take care of you? Who's gonna take you to school, meet you? I remember one time I was late or something. You stood outside that.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I said, buzzy, I'm here, I'm here.

[Buzz Goldstein]

He was good to me.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

A lot of times I was mean to you.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yeah, mean. You know, you said you were my older brother used to knock the out of me sometimes. But you know, that's the way it is with, with brothers.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Well, yeah, I was good in some ways. Some ways I was mean.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Who was, who was not, who was not, who is not.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So if you feel like you were compelled to see each other now because you knew that, you know, it's now or never kind of thing, then it means that it was important to you both, right, to see each other.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

You want to take that? Sure. Yes.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Easy answer. Yes. Yes. Because we're not getting any younger. What's down the road? I'm 80, he's 85. I mean, because there was a lot of water under the bridge and we want to close that bridge now. I want to feel easy now. I want to say, now he's going to be 86. I want to call him on his birthday and say happy birthday to him. Now I'm not going to stand in any fucking ceremonies anymore.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As my father speaks, as per his brother's example, dropping F bombs like he's in a Guy Ritchie film, Sheldon keeps his arms crossed and his eyes shut tight. He's quiet for several seconds, and then he reaches out to pet his cat.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Should I leave you the cat?

[Buzz Goldstein]

In my will, if anything happens, if anything out. I'll take care of the cat. I'll take care of the cat. I'm happy I came to see you. That I am.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

I'm happy you came here. That's good. Very good. If you want to buy a house, that one is for sale.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When it's time to leave, Sheldon walks us outside. But before we get into the rental, he points across the lawn to his neighbor's house. He tells my father that it's for sale. And then he tells him the asking price. And my father says, that doesn't sound bad at all. And Sheldon says that what with Canada being so bloody cold, my father should consider moving to Florida. And my father says maybe he will. They don't get too emotional. They don't even hug goodbye. They just shake hands. And with that, it feels like Buzz has forgiven Sheldon. And Sheldon has forgiven Buzz.

[Buzz Goldstein]

All right, you take care.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Water under the bridge. Take care. Take care. You, too.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Okay.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Safe trip, both of you.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Thank you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, thank you. Turn right on Northwest Bedford Drive.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Oh, my God. I feel so different now. You know that this is taking a lot off my shoulders, you know?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As we ride to the airport, my father says that the thought of Sheldon all alone in that house with just a cat makes him sad. Do you really think he isn't lonely? My father asks. I assure him that Sheldon seems okay with being alone. But my father doesn't seem so sure. After all these years, the burden of having lost his brother has been replaced by a new burden. One that might be heavier to bear.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Sam.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is furniture is returning to its goodwill home.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Now that the last month's.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Rent is scheming with the damaged deposit. Take this moment to decide if we meant it. If we tried.

[Sheldon Goldstein]

Or felt around for.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Far too much from things that accidentally touch. So you know why I wanted to talk to you?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yeah, I know you wanted to talk to me, but you know.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

About what?

[Buzz Goldstein]

I have no idea.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So I wanted to revisit. Do you remember the story that I made about you and your brother Sheldon?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Sure. Oh, yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Back then, you were in your. I think you were 80 and I think Sheldon was 84 or 85.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Right, right, right. Yeah, if I was 80.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You just turned 90 a couple months ago.

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yeah, yeah. December.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Did you get a phone call from Sheldon?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yes, I did. Of course. Oh, yeah. He welcomed me into the big nine zero. He'll be 95 in July.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So do you guys Talk on all of your birthdays or just on the big ones?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Every birthday. Every birthday. I call him. He calls me. Yeah. And we talk a little bit. You know, we just talk.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So what do you guys talk about? What'd you talk about when he called you up for your 90th?

[Buzz Goldstein]

How he's feeling. Does he still go out to eat? Does he still drive a car? You know, things like that. Is he getting around? And he goes out. He's got the steakhouse that he goes to. It's like an Australia. The Outback. The Outback. And he goes. He has his seat or stool and. Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Does he still smoke his cigars and drink beer?

[Buzz Goldstein]

No. You know, he stopped that because he developed a cough. So he stopped.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Even though, you know, you only speak to Sheldon a couple times a year. Do you feel like your life is enriched by having him in it?

[Buzz Goldstein]

Yes. He's important to me in a lot of many ways. Yeah. I feel he's my mortality. In other words, as long as he lives, I'm okay. Do you understand that? You know, it's like this is a bond we have in a certain way, that we have this long life, and it's kind of a gift, and there's kind of a magic to it. As long as he keeps on living, I'm okay. Wow. You know, he's 95. I can go yet. You know, a few more years.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together. We'll be back next week with another encore presentation of Heavyweight. And with it, another update from our guest, Sam.

[Buzz Goldstein]

This is an I Heart podcast.