2025 Update: Joey

Summary

Heavyweight Podcast Episode Summary: "2025 Update: Joey"

Release Date: July 10, 2025
Host: Jonathan Goldstein
Produced by: Pushkin Industries

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1. Introduction to Joey’s Story

The episode opens with host Jonathan Goldstein recounting a personal anecdote from his youth, illustrating his struggles with social anxiety. This story sets the stage for the main narrative about Joey, a 22-year-old art school graduate grappling with similar fears of social interactions.

“From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode. Joey.”
[03:20] Jonathan Goldstein

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2. Joey’s Struggles and Isolation

Joey moves into an artist’s loft in downtown Los Angeles, expecting to immerse himself in a vibrant artistic community. However, he quickly feels out of place among his six eclectic roommates, leading to profound social isolation.

“And so he ended up spending most of his time alone in his room rehearsing icebreakers.”
[06:19] Jonathan Goldstein

Joey's attempts to engage are stifled by his anxiety, resulting in repetitive, self-reinforcing phrases like, "I like your tattoo."

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3. The Incident at the Pizza Parlor

Joey finds solace in rollerblading to a local pizza parlor, where he becomes a familiar yet solitary figure. His routine disrupts when he orders a vegetarian pizza but only finds pepperoni slices available, conflicting with his dietary choices.

“Joey is a vegetarian and so without having prepared anything clever to say like pepperoni pizza, oh man, bummer.”
[10:18] Jonathan Goldstein

Accusations of stealing from the pizza parlor escalate his anxiety, culminating in a public humiliation that forces Joey to confront his fear of being seen.

“Instead of drawing less attention, I was now center stage.”
[03:20] Jonathan Goldstein

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4. Seeking Help from Elise

Devastated by the incident, Joey reaches out to his twin sister, Elise, for support. Elise, who has always been Joey's confidante, encourages him to confront his fears and seek reconciliation with his former roommates.

“She gave me the same advice that everyone did, which is just, you know, go talk to them, be normal.”
[13:11] Joey

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5. Bringing in Gregor to Help Joey

To aid Joey in overcoming his social anxiety, Jonathan introduces Gregor, Joey’s friend known for his extroverted and assertive personality. Gregor's role is to mentor Joey through role-playing exercises aimed at building his confidence.

“Gregor, is the exact opposite of Joey and me in any given social interaction.”
[20:56] Jonathan Goldstein

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6. Role-Playing and Mentoring

Jonathan and Gregor engage in humorous and sometimes chaotic role-playing sessions to prepare Joey for his confrontation with the pizza parlor. These sessions highlight the stark contrast between Gregor's boldness and Joey's reserved nature.

“Joey trails off. Even in a simulation, his nerves get the better of him.”
[22:42] Jonathan Goldstein

Gregor's antics often derail the role-plays, adding levity while emphasizing the challenges Joey faces.

---

7. The Confrontation with Former Roommates

Empowered by his preparation, Joey decides to apologize to his former roommates. Accompanied by Gregor and Jonathan, Joey approaches the loft, carrying vegetarian pizzas as a peace offering. Despite initial resistance, Joey’s sincere apology begins to mend strained relationships.

“I just want to apologize and make things right.”
[37:55] Gregor

“I've been meaning to, but the prospect is pretty scary just mentioning it.”
[16:00] Joey

---

8. Reconciliation and Growth

The episode culminates in a heartfelt reconciliation where Joey openly discusses his social anxiety and takes responsibility for his actions. His vulnerability fosters understanding and forgiveness from his roommates, marking a significant personal growth moment.

“I wish I was more able to, like, be friendly with you guys.”
[40:28] Gregor

“I love your funky style.”
[41:02] Zach

Joey's journey from isolation to connection underscores the episode's central theme of overcoming personal barriers to build meaningful relationships.

---

9. Conclusion and Surprise Guest

As the episode concludes, Jonathan introduces a surprise guest, Bernie and Ethel Siegel, who provide additional perspectives on Joey’s transformation. Their interaction highlights the lasting impact of Joey’s efforts to change and the support he received along the way.

“I think I am. I think you're right.”
[49:50] Joey

These final moments encapsulate the episode's message of growth, resilience, and the enduring power of human connection.

---

Notable Quotes:

• “I am a Rollerblader, but…”
  [21:16] Joey

• “If ordering a pizza had given Joey the jimmy legs…”
  [39:15] Jonathan Goldstein

• “Another loft mate appears in the stairway.”
  [41:16] Jonathan Goldstein

• “Adios.”
  [47:59] Zach

---

Insights and Takeaways:

• Overcoming Social Anxiety: Joey's story illustrates the profound impact of social anxiety on personal and professional relationships, and the courage required to confront and overcome these challenges.

• The Role of Support Systems: The support from his sister Elise, friend Gregor, and ultimately his roommates underscores the importance of a strong support network in facilitating personal growth.

• Vulnerability as Strength: Joey's willingness to be vulnerable and apologize demonstrates that opening up can lead to meaningful connections and self-improvement.

---

Conclusion

"2025 Update: Joey" is a compelling exploration of personal struggle, resilience, and the transformative power of facing one's fears. Through Joey's journey, listeners are reminded of the importance of empathy, support, and the courage to seek change.

Transcript

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Foreign. Welcome to the studio.

[Elise]

You don't have to welcome me to the studio every time I feel welcome. I think the welcome carries over week to week.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I am a host of a nationally broadcast podcast. It's what we do host with the most. We're contractually obliged to welcome our guests, and you are my guest. Okay. Make no mistake.

[Elise]

Are you gonna, like, offer me something to drink or no?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So now we're going to be listening to a encore presentation of a little episode called Joey. Yes. And actually, there is a line in this story that I still quote that we both.

[Elise]

Oh, that's true.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

At the end of our meeting sometimes. Yeah, that's true. One person will say to the other, adios.

[Elise]

Yeah, I think it's you guys late. Adios.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. And as you listen, you'll be able to hear where that quote comes from.

[Elise]

Yeah. So maybe guys can work that into your lives too.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

All right, so let's get to it. Coming right up, an encore presentation of Joey. And at the end of the episode, we're going to check in with Joey and a surprise guest.

[Elise]

I can't wait to find out who it is.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's not you.

[Elise]

Nope.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're a guest, but you're not a surprise guest. No.

[Elise]

People are like, yeah, it makes sense that she's here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But first, a word from our sponsors.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, if I were to plan a surprise vacation for us, where would you want to Go.

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

Surprise vacation.

[Rinse Advertiser]

It could just never happen with my.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Work schedule like I can.

[Rinse Advertiser]

That could never happen.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Where would you want to go? Why would I want to go? For fun in the sun. Listen how stressed you sound.

[Rinse Advertiser]

The idea of actually being on vacation.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

With you, Nice idea.

[Rinse Advertiser]

It wouldn't be a vacation, would it, Tony?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It would be a sleighcation. Because we'd do everything on a sleigh. We'd dash through the snow and I don't know, like check our phones and argue. Occasionally you'd hang up on me and I'd start the show.

[Joey]

Ba Dum Bum.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode. Joey. As a young man, whenever conflict arose, my go to move was to roll up into a fetal ball and pray to go unnoticed. Of course, this only made matters worse. Case in point, one afternoon while riding a trolley, I fell into a daydream and missed my stop. Anyone else in my position might have yelled, I missed my stop. Or open the door please. But in imagining all these trolley riding strangers turning around to stare at me, my mind went blank. So I decided it might be simpler draw less attention if I just jumped off. As I landed onto the street, I heard a high pitched scream that I would later realize was coming from me. Instead of drawing less attention, I was now center stage. The trolley conductor skidded to a halt and all the passengers ran to the windows to watch as I painfully crawled into a nearby bush. Once in the bush, I hid, waiting for the trolley to leave. For young Jonathan Goldstein, the cost of staying silent that day was two twisted ankles and the loss of my pride. Hey Joey.

[Joey]

Hey there. It's awesome to hear from you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This is young Joey and he recently had a bad day that forced him to realize his fear of being seen. His fear of speaking up was exacting a far greater cost than a mere double ankle injury. It was ruining his life and so he's reached out for help from me.

[Joey]

And just never get myself in a situation like this again.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey is 22 years old and the lead up to his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day begins right after his art school graduation when he moved into an artist's loft in downtown la.

[Joey]

Living that downtown city life kind of living a communal living style.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The downside was that the loft had bed sheets for walls and six roommates. But the plus side, the loft had bed sheets for walls and six roommates. Six super cool roommates, a dj, a doll maker, a photographer, a guy who quote, trimmed weed and super coolest of all, a podcaster.

[Joey]

And I pictured these cool artist types having great parties and a lot of cool people over, and all the artists in the LA scene would come through, and I was going to come in and hopefully fit in immediately.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But Joey didn't fit in immediately. He never felt comfortable just hanging out with everyone, never knew what to say. And so he ended up spending most of his time alone in his room rehearsing icebreakers. I like your tattoo, he'd repeat to himself. Your tattoo, I like it. Sweet tat, he'd say, pointing limply at the mirror like a socially crippled Travis Bickle. Unable to come up with anything that felt right, paralysis set in. Joey began spending all day in his room, a shadow behind a bedsheet.

[Joey]

They'd all be in the living room right next to my room, hanging out, watching a movie, drinking, hanging, doing their thing. And I would be in my room, just, like, making people uncomfortable by not being out there.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey had been living in the loft several weeks when he realized just how isolated he'd become. One day, while waiting outside the bathroom, he ran into one of his new roommates.

[Joey]

She was like, oh, hi, what's your name? Oh, where do you live? I was like, here, I live here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Eventually, Joey began avoiding the loft altogether. He'd spend every day wandering the streets, only returning in the evening.

[Joey]

When I was back at my house at night, I would sneak into my room and then. And then make it drink, make sure I didn't drink too much water so that my bladder was empty so I wouldn't have to leave my room to pee. My new goal was to just be as unobtrusive as a roommate as possible. Be invisible. So in this time, I would just try to spend all my day out of the house, out on my rollerblades, which I had also recently taken up.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Everyone needs a hobby. And Joey found one that provided both good exercise as well as a way to free himself from the oppressive yoke of human dignity. And so it was while rollerblading that Joey discovered his new home away from home, the pizza parlor. The pizza parlor played cool music and had cool art on the walls. It even served cool pizza. There was one shaped like a marijuana leaf and other shaped like circles. But because Joey was Joey, even a simple thing like ordering pizza was a challenge. And so he rehearsed his icebreakers.

[Joey]

I found myself, like, making sure I could, you know, have something to say, like, preparing something for the quick interaction while I buy my pizza.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like, what kind of thing?

[Gregor]

I don't know.

[Joey]

Like if it's raining out, I would have something clever to say about that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Or give me an example of the clever thing that you would say when it was raining.

[Joey]

I'd say, oh man, bummer. This is not rollerblading weather. Okay, Like I would or I don't know what I'm trying to say.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Slowly, Joey began making social inroads, even managing to earn himself a nickname, that rollerblading guy. His fantasies of fun and friendship with his bohemian loft buddies were over. But his fantasies of fun and friendship with his bohemian pizza parlor buddies had only just begun.

[Joey]

I had planned on continuing to visit there and making these friendships grow and hopefully progressing them to real life friendships outside of the shop.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And so every morning, Joey would blade straight to the self service refrigerator that housed the day old dollar slices.

[Joey]

I pretty much exclusively ate pizza from that moment on.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

For all your meals.

[Joey]

Pretty much. There was definitely days that went by when it was just pizza.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like how many slices a day were you eating?

[Gregor]

I'd say four or five.

[Joey]

Two for breakfast and then stick them in my backpack for the rest of the day.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What were you doing?

[Joey]

For fruits and vegetables, I occasionally got the veggie slice.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And that was Joey's life. Eating za, rolling blades and waiting for old man scurvy. Until one terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

[Joey]

January 14th was like every other day. I woke up to go get my pizza, headed into the shop and unfortunately I only found pepperoni in the fridge.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey is a vegetarian and so without having prepared anything clever to say like pepperoni pizza, oh man, bummer. Pepperonis aren't vegetarian. He instead said nothing and tried to just rollerblade back out the door without anyone noticing. But he'd only bladed a couple blocks when he saw a familiar face biking towards him.

[Joey]

And it's one of the pizza chefs. So I just thought he was gonna. Hell, I don't know. I thought he was gonna say, what's up man? Let's hang out. What's your name? I thought he was just interested in me. So I was excited to see him biking towards me and I took off my headphones to greet him. And the first thing he said is, don't come back. I said, excuse me? He said, you're taking slices? I said, what?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And then it clicked. Flipping through the dollar slices and then abruptly leaving in silence. Looked fishy, like Joey was stealing pizza.

[Joey]

And I was kind of like panicking talking to him. Like I could feel, I could hear the panic in my voice and stuff, but I, I didn't know what to Say so I kind of just, I was kind of speechless and I, you know, didn't have the confidence to keep fighting.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay.

[Joey]

Yeah. And then he, he biked away. I started crying on the streets and I must have looked ridiculous rollerblading down the street while crying at that point.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It was a terrible day. It became horrible as well as no good and very bad when Joey, crying on the street, received a phone call bearing more bad news.

[Joey]

The roommates had been kind of talking and they, that they, they used the words I'm getting under their skin.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The roommates found Joey's silent, sneaky ways unsettling. They wanted him out.

[Joey]

I like went and got my stuff and I don't know, I basically moved out in that moment. I like just left without seeing anybody and I kind of ran away.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As the day came to a close, Joey called the one person he always calls the person he's leaned on his whole life. Elise, his twin sister.

[Joey]

She gave me the same advice that everyone did, which is just, you know, go talk to them, be normal. But I don't know. I mean, I never was able to take that advice from anybody. Coming from her though especially, I felt especially bad.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

He was like almost in tears telling me this story.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Elise knows Joey better than anyone and he's relied on her socially his entire life. When he started dating Elise introduced him to her friends and when he was too anxious to attend family functions, Elise would go in his place.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

And he told me about how he cried, which is always. He doesn't cry that often. You could tell it was a big deal that he expressed that he cried about it and he told the whole story. And I was laughing so hard because it's a really funny story and I wanted him to see that it was funny too, and he could see the humor in it. But he was also pretty clearly devastated.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When I ask Elise what's so funny about her brother crying on the phone, she makes a pretty strong case casually eviscerating him in the way only a loving sister can.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

Him and his rollerblades and often like funny looking tank tops. His like creeper mustache and his mullet definitely. Wait, just the look of him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hang on a second. He has a mullet.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

Full mullet, full, full, creepy young child mustache. And his shoulders and arms look, look strong, but they're small. And same with his legs. His legs are shockingly skinny. They do have an incredible shine to them, I will admit.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Does he apply ointments?

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

I'm not sure that's ointment. I'm guessing that's just his oily self.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I don't want Joey to have to wait years and years like I did just to know the sweet joys of uncrippling an abnormality. So I asked Joey's oily self what he most wants out of all this, and the answer he delivers is pretty to the point, almost like he's rehearsed it.

[Joey]

I want to say sorry that I wasn't able to leave my room. I wish they knew how I felt basically.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But when I put forward my action plan for Joey to fix his bad day by re rollerblading through it, re rollerblading back to the pizza parlor to clear his name and re rollerblading to the loft to apologize for being such a creepy, sneaky roommate, I can hear the beads of sweat squeak out of Joey's hairline and saturate his mullet.

[Joey]

Right? Yeah, I'm definitely. Yeah, I've definitely been meaning to, but the prospect is pretty scary just mentioning it. I got nervous for sure.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey still wants to be invisible, but decades of experience have taught me that oftentimes the more invisible you try to make yourself, the more visible you become. So if I have my way, Joey will no longer have to hide in the metaphorical bush like a young metaphorical Jonathan Goldstein after the break, helping Joey to stop spinning his wheels.

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, hold the line for a moment, Joey.

[Joey]

All right, sounds good.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hang on.

[Joey]

I'm practicing my witty retorts anyways.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, don't. Don't do that. Okay, during the ad break, while you were loading up on unbelievable deals, I was considering the full extent of Joey's dilemma. As much as Jonathan Debonair Goldstein wanted to help him, the truth is, Jonathan Stewart Goldstein is actually a lot like Joey. And so I made a phone call to an old friend. A man whose example and critical feedback, some might say overly critical feedback, have helped me to become the animalis sociolobus I am today. Happy, confident, out of the shrubs and loving it. And I was hoping he could work the same magic on Joey. Joey, this is my friend Gregor.

[Joey]

Howdy.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey. So Joey was living in this loft, and he. Gregor, is the exact opposite of Joey and me in any given social interaction. He's never afraid to stand out, never afraid to say the wrong thing. Case in point.

[Carmine]

Was Johnny kidding when he said you were wearing Rollerblades?

[Joey]

No, I am a Rollerblader, but.

[Carmine]

So you Rollerbladed into the store wearing your Rollerblades?

[Joey]

That's right.

[Carmine]

I have these very vivid memories of being in Central park and seeing these people, mostly grown men, on Rollerblades, with that folded hands over the lower back and their body bent forward, like, zipping around in, like, a Lycra skin suit. The big, giant grin as they gasp for breath and, like, goggles on.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You got all that out of your system?

[Carmine]

I hate Rollerbladers. And I hate everything about Rollerblades. But I think most people don't have the courage to ask for help. It takes a very big man to ask for help. Okay, so the guy wants the Rollerblade. Fine.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Since Joey feels most comfortable when he's rehearsing social interactions, I suggest we do some role playing. Joey plays himself, and Gregor plays the pizza shop owner. After 10 minutes deliberating over his character's name, Gregor decides on Carmine.

[Carmine]

Please, call me Carmine.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

All right, stop.

[Carmine]

Just trying to add a little depth to the character.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Don't do that. Once I finish offering some helpful direction, we begin. So, okay, so you're the owner. I'll do the Foley work. I'll make any necessary sounds. Okay, Joey, you're coming into the pizza parlor. Tingle, tingle. Hey.

[Joey]

So, it's been a long time. I don't know if you heard. I had a bit of a.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey trails off. Even in a simulation, his nerves get the better of him. I try to inspire him with more Foley work. Tingle, tingle. The place is starting to fill up a little, so you might want to spit it out. Tingle, tingle, tingle, tingle.

[Carmine]

Oh, my God, it's like Radiolab. Suddenly a monkey came in. Gregor, call me Carmine the whole duration of this shoot. I need to be in character. I'm like Daniel Day Lewis. I will only answer if you call me Carmine.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Why did I even have you be the shop owner? Why wasn't I the shop owner?

[Carmine]

I could be your son who's got, like, bigger dreams. I don't want to spend my whole life thingin pizzas.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're derailing this, Dad.

[Carmine]

I got big dreams. I want to get into real estate. Commercial real estate. I want to lease Laundromats. See, I'm not like you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You really.

[Carmine]

I want to have a self storage unit. They're very profitable. Don't you see? Now we're gelling as a team. Right at the very end, as you start to fade us down, you can't even hear what I'm saying anymore.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sure, Gregor was taking none of the work seriously, but Joey was enjoying Gregor. And in his own way, Gregor was enjoying Joey. It looked like Gregor was in. I noticed that you like to sit very close to the gate.

[Carmine]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Gregor and I meet at the airport for the flight to see Joey in la. While squatting on the floor staring fixedly at the gate, Gregor shares some insider tips on air travel.

[Carmine]

Because when they say extra time getting down the jetway, you're allowed to run past those people.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're allowed.

[Carmine]

See, like I could easily run outrun that little girl in the purple. Anyway, Johnny, stick with me. I'm going to show you how to board this big bird. That's what I say to the pilot when I board the plane. Let's bring this big bird down, brother. That way he knows I'm a member of the free eternity of aviation. Arm doors for departure. Cross check and ready for alcohol, please.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Once we've boarded. Running down the jetway like a couple of giggling idiots, Gregor regales me with stories. The time Lou Reed threatened to put an ashtray through his head. No, he didn't.

[Carmine]

Yeah, big heavy glass one.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The time a taxi driver told him he had eyes like his dead brothers. That's a terrible story. The time all dozen or so members of the Wu Tang clan squeezed onto his living room couch.

[Carmine]

He asked for my seat to trade.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Then come the aviation stories. All the flights he's been on where people have died.

[Carmine]

But then there was another flight I was on when someone died right next to me. And they were literally doing the thing on the PA where they're like, are there any doctors on board? And I was like, I'm kind of. Of a doctor.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How are you kind of a doctor?

[Carmine]

I'm a very good diagnostician. Look, we're on 25RL. It's one of my favorite runways.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Gregor and I rent a car and meet up with Joey at his favorite coffee shop. From here, we plan to head to the pizza parlor, get him unbanned, and then go to the loft so Joey can apologize to his former roommates.

[Gregor]

Morning. Morning. Nice to meet you. Hi, how are you?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hi, I'm good. Nice to meet you. How are you? As well as being rollerblade footed, Joey's just As chopstick legged, mustache lipped and mullet headed, as his sister Elise had cautioned. Did it take you a while to decide, like, what you were gonna wear today? Joey seems anxious, so I ask him, joey, are you anxious? But before he can answer, Gregor steps in.

[Carmine]

Johnny, let's take it from here. You don't wanna make the guy nervous by asking him if he was nervous. Why don't we go around in a circle and each say a member of the Wu Tang until we get to.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Online with this idiot's game? What Gregor's really doing is distracting Joey. Protecting him. In this case, protecting him from me.

[Carmine]

Ready?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, I'll start.

[Carmine]

The rza.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The Jizza.

[Gregor]

Wizza.

[Carmine]

Stop. There's no Jizza. The Jizza.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The genius.

[Carmine]

Genius. Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Stop. Number one, the pizza parlor. Is this the place?

[Carmine]

What time they open? 11.

[Gregor]

Oh, I'm getting nervous. My stomach is jumping.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, wait. Here, Joey, I have something for you, just in case. As Joey's mentor, I know he runs a pretty good chance of choking, so I prepared him some notes during my flight. Okay, here you go. Read this.

[Gregor]

You guys were like family to me, and when you accused me of theft, I.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, no, try it slower. You guys were like family.

[Carmine]

Oh, my God, here we go.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Go ahead.

[Gregor]

You guys were like family to me, and when you accused me of theft, I mishandled the situation. I became discombobulated. I should have defended myself. Told you, I'm no thief.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Although we want to offer Joey help, it's important that he do this on his own. No Gregor, no Jonathan, no Elise. We'll be there with cue cards and emotional support. But ultimately, Joey needs to enter the pizza shop and make his case solo.

[Carmine]

We're gonna let Joey shine.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, bring your shine box. Joey, are you getting the reference to the shine box?

[Carmine]

That would be a.

[Joey]

You guys got a lot of references. I don't know.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Have you seen Goodfellas? Do your Joe Pesci first for Joey, just to loosen him up a little.

[Carmine]

Dad was one tough Irishman. I put his head in a vise. Three days until his eyeballs popped out.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Get two vegetarian pizzas. I instruct Joey to order pizza and kombuchas for his roommates. This way the pizza parlor crew will see he's not just a dollar slice guy, but someone capable of committing to an entire piece of and a vinegar and bile based beverage. It'll show personal growth.

[Carmine]

Just have fun. Just relax. Be yourself.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Enjoy it. Joey swings open the door and rollerblades inside. Remember the rollerblading this whole time, Joey's been wheels down, wearing his blades. You might want to rewind a few minutes and re listen with that image in your mind. And it's not just the Rollerblades. Joey is also wearing a wire. So standing outside, Gregor and I can eavesdrop on how things are going inside the parlor. Do you want to hear?

[Carmine]

I can't stand to hear.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

While Gregor paces back and forth on the sidewalk, I cup an earphone and listen as Joey rolls up to the counter.

[Gregor]

Hey, how's it going?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey is greeted by a pizza chef.

[Gregor]

Yeah, I don't know if you remember me. I used to come here all the time. I was kicked out of your shop a couple months back for stealing slices. Even, like, I was accused of stealing slices. No, I totally know why you thought it was me. Because it looked like it. I mean, I came in.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Gregor and I watch nervously through the storefront window. Oh, he's blowing it.

[Carmine]

I rush to his aid.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey isn't mounting a defense, and he isn't offering a counter narrative. Instead, he's exhibiting a level of mealy mouthery not seen since a young Jonathan Goldstein tried to explain to a trolley conductor why he was hiding in a bush.

[Gregor]

And I was kind of hoping I could come back just because I love.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But as Gregor and I bicker over whether to walk inside and roll Joey out the door like a dessert trolley full of flaming horse manure, we notice something.

[Gregor]

I know it's weird that it's been so long, but I just, like, felt really bad. I was really embarrassed. Really?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm sorry. Oh, she's being really nice. You saw, like, someone come in with, like, roller skates. I remember that day.

[Carmine]

I was working that day.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Not only does she remember that day, but she also remembers Joey. There was a guy who came in, like, several times.

[Gregor]

Yeah, no, I see. I think that was me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Kind of remembers Joey.

[Gregor]

I came in. I'm a vegetarian. I saw that you guys only had pepperoni slices, and so I was like, oh, not for me. And I just turned around, totally looked like I just grabbed one.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And since you didn't do it, you know, you don't have anything to apologize for.

[Gregor]

Yeah, I just want to make sure you, like. You guys don't think I did it. I mean. Yeah, okay. Okay, cool. Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

If he was willing to come back to face his accusers, she says he probably didn't steal the pizza. And with that, Joey orders his pies and kombuchas. With our faces pressed against the window, Gregor and I watch with amazement as Joey waits for his order while engaging in some completely unscripted repartee. Cool song, he says. Totally. She says, this band is so cool. He says. Yeah, she says, we didn't prepare Joey for any of this, but here he was riffing and scatting away like some kind of improvisational jazz cat. Carmine would have been proud.

[Gregor]

Thank you very much.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And tingle, tingle. Joey emerges from the restaurant holding our pizzas aloft like trophies. Joey. Oh, you did it.

[Gregor]

Oh, my God, I'm shaking.

[Joey]

I'm shaking.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You did a great job. Despite his fear of saying the wrong thing, Joey had managed to put himself out there and stumble his way through. Joey, that was great. And like. Yeah, you really like and you did it by yourself. We didn't have to go in or anything.

[Gregor]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Joey]

I really, really was nervous. I felt my leg completely shaking.

[Gregor]

I thought she was gonna look down.

[Joey]

And just see my leg shaking. Like it.

[Carmine]

Okay, 1 to 10, how do you feel? Did you wrestle the bear?

[Gregor]

Because I know I still have to go to the loft. It's, you know, the relief hasn't come.

[Joey]

But.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After the break, Joey tries rolling up a much harder hill, apologizing to people he actually knows.

[Carmine]

Those people you live with, they actually know the real joy. I mean, maybe they didn't like the real Joey, but they knew who you were.

[Gregor]

No, I don't think they did. I mean, I hope they didn't.

[Rinse Advertiser]

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you think it's a good sign that the roommates did not respond.

[Gregor]

No, no, to be honest, I'm pretty nervous about that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey had tried to contact his former loft mates via group text to let them know he'd be coming by to talk. But as we stand on the street in front of the building, our kombucha bubbling and vegetarian pizzas congealing, Joey checks and rechecks his phone. Not a single one of his former roommates has responded.

[Carmine]

Not even, like, any response is not a good sign.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But May, that's better than, like, responding by saying, I'm not interested. Right. The loft is on the second floor behind a metal gate, and there's no doorbell.

[Carmine]

All right, let's figure out how to get into this fortress.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

There's no drainpipe to shimmy, no fire escape banister to reverse ollie. All we can do is wait for someone to come in or out. Gregor fills the time with yet another aviation story.

[Carmine]

When I was going through the tsa, the lady was like, could you pull your pants up a little bit? You just told me to take my belt off and now my pants are falling down. You want me to pull my pants up? Which is it?

[Joey]

You really get told to pull your pants?

[Carmine]

I get told that every time I go through the tsa.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Who wears a belt with a pair of shorts? Me. You wear a belt and shorts? Yep. I never heard of that.

[Carmine]

How do you think I keep them up?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I think someone's coming. Thankfully, we're interrupted.

[Joey]

I think I believe it.

[Gregor]

Yo, how's it going?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

One of Joey's old roommates emerges. He's a hip young man who, if not wearing a straw pork pie hat and carrying a gondola paddle, is certainly giving off that vibe. A Venetian boatman vibe. Joey, foregoing all social foreplay, dives right in.

[Gregor]

Yeah, I'm here because I want to apologize. I don't know if you got the group text.

[Joey]

Oh, no, Yeah.

[Gregor]

I just wanted. I felt really bad about how I left things here, so I brought some pizza and my.

[Joey]

My friend's here.

[Carmine]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey gestures over to his friends. Two balding middle aged men slumping behind him like bald scarecrows stuffed with muesli. Hey.

[Carmine]

Hi.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay.

[Carmine]

All right, well, this is really awkward.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And a surprise, right? I was just going out of my car.

[Joey]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So the boatman isn't very receptive, but Joey persists.

[Gregor]

Is anyone else home? If you want to, like, ask if they are okay with me coming up. Okay. Thank you so much.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's taken all of Joey's courage to Return to the place where the coolest art kids in LA live. And he's still being denied entry. As Joey stares in silence at the steel door that's just clanged shut in his mustachioed face, I struggle to come up with something positive to say. I think you handled yourself well.

[Joey]

I'm extremely nervous right now. I don't feel good about how this is going.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Upstairs, the gondolier is saying to his roommate something along the lines of, hey, remember that silent roller skating weirdo we kicked out of our art loft? Well, he's downstairs with pizza and his two gay dads. But then.

[Joey]

Yo.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, what's up?

[Gregor]

Hi.

[Zach]

How you doing? Hi, Zach.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Zach is the unofficial head of the household. The guy who takes care of all the square normie stuff like throwing out expired cottage cheese and paying the rent on time. He's bearded and shaggy. He turns to Joey. Joey stares down at his rollerblades and starts mumbling explanations.

[Gregor]

Yeah, I just thought. I mean, I didn't think. It was just like. I just thought.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I haven't heard this much mealy mouthing since, I guess, an hour ago when Joey was at the pizza parlor. Zach looks at Joey skeptically. His arms are crossed. Nonetheless, Joey soldiers on.

[Gregor]

I just feel really bad about kind of how I left things here. Yeah, I know that I wasn't the best roommate and I feel really bad and just kind of uncomfortable about even just how you guys think about me, but I just wanted to apologize and make things right.

[Zach]

Um, there were things like that bugged me. Here we go.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Whereas the pizza chef had been impressed with the mere fact Joey had returned for Zach, that wasn't enough.

[Zach]

You had your headphones on a lot and you had noise canceling headphones. You're just like in your world.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

He launches into a laundry list of grievances.

[Zach]

Didn't clean the bathroom. And I was just like, dude.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey ignored everybody. Never cleaned up after himself, never even washed a dish.

[Zach]

The amount of rent or who's paying what or why are you paying her and not paying us?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The worst thing Joey could imagine was happening. He was being seen and told that he'd always been seen. He put all his effort into trying to become invisible and absolutely no effort into doing his share of the chores. That's why his roommates wanted him out. They'd seen him visibly not cleaning the loft, visibly not taking out the garbage, trying to hide, but not really hiding at all.

[Zach]

And that's what I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

If ordering a pizza had given Joey the jimmy legs facing Zach was giving Joey the Joey leg, a name I've just coined for a condition in which one's entire body becomes one single jimmy leg. That is a Joey leg that won't stop. Jimmying is like a liberty, you know? But while Joey is jimmying, he isn't folding. He's not running away, but it was.

[Zach]

Just the way that it was done. Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As Zach finishes speaking, Joey maintains eye contact. And what's more, as the la breeze whips up the hindquarters of his mullet, he does not fall prey to his lifelong crutch silence. Without notes, without witty ish rejoinders, he responds.

[Gregor]

All this stuff, like the not paying rent on time and just all the chores stuff, all that stems from this shyness, this, like, the weirdness and, like, just feeling uncomfortable to, like, I don't know, be in the public space kind of just because I'm weird and shy and I can't blame it on anything but myself. I mean, it was all. It's all me. It's like my own thing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Zach looks at Joey.

[Gregor]

I wish I was more able to, like, be friendly with you guys.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sees him struggling and his face softens.

[Zach]

I unders like having social anxiety. Having, like, issues where you're, like, you feel something that's like, strangling you in a position where you have to converse or whatever. Like, I can understand that.

[Gregor]

Yeah. Like, I only wanted to just be.

[Joey]

Friends with you guys.

[Zach]

I appreciate. Where are you staying now?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Awkwardness is just a step along the way to vulnerability and being vulnerable. Allowing yourself to be seen is the only soil from which friendship can grow.

[Zach]

I love your funky style.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And what better fertilizer than a mutual love of the mullet?

[Zach]

I've been contemplating a similar mullet as yours, but I don't know if my hair would work as much as yours. You have a different volume.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So as Zach and Joey wax on about the beauty of Joey's ape drape, another loft mate appears in the stairway.

[Gregor]

Nice to meet you.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

You guys want to come up?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sure, yeah. If that's okay. That's great. Thank you. Holy cow. This is a really big space.

[Gregor]

It's looking good.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey leads Gregor and I on a tour through the old audio cassettes and dummy heads past the kickboxing bag and vinyl collection, and ends the tour in a truly MTV Cribs kind of way at his old bedroom, where the magic happened. And by magic, I mean where Joey slept on the floor, wrapped in unwashed blankets. This is where we used to stay. Did you have a mattress? Joey breaks out the pizza and kombucha. And we all gather by the hot plate for a toast.

[Carmine]

You're supposed to actually look up. Look at each other's eyes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

All right, thank you.

[Joey]

It's the communication.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. God, that stuff's terrible.

[Carmine]

Wow, the aftertaste gets you a little.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After we choke back our kombucha, I suggest a symbolic gesture. Hey, you want to. You want to wash all the glasses?

[Gregor]

Yeah, I do. I do.

[Carmine]

This is totally ridiculous.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're gonna use soap and everything. Just as we're about to leave, Gregor decides he'd like to use the bathroom. And whereas a couple of shrinky and sneaky violets like Joey and me might just slink off looking for it, Gregor does not.

[Carmine]

Might it be too much of an imposition if I was to leave a little urine in your toilet on the way out?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

By embracing the awkwardness of life, acknowledging that we are creatures who require toilets, Gregor somehow makes things less awkward. At least for himself. Gregor has mastered something that Joey is still learning the art of saying. Here I am. Even when peeing into a toilet while wearing a lapel microphone. You're welcome. Come on.

[Joey]

Thank you.

[Zach]

Chill out.

[Gregor]

I'll be back.

[Joey]

But, yeah, take it easy.

[Gregor]

Thanks, Eric. See you guys a little later.

[Zach]

Adios.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After leaving the loft, there's only one thing left to redo. Hello? Joey phones up his twin sister, Elise. And this time, he isn't crying.

[Gregor]

It was so good. It was so cool. Yeah. I think he genuinely forgave me. And I did it all on my lonesome.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

No, you didn't. You needed so much help.

[Gregor]

Okay, well, after I got the help, I did it on myself, you know? I mean. But now I just feel like I can do it by myself.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

I am really proud of you, though. I know that takes a lot.

[Joey]

It did.

[Gregor]

It takes a lot from me.

[Joey]

Yeah.

[Gregor]

You know, more than anyone. Your proudness feels good.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm not surprised that Elise is proud. But I'm taken aback to see that Gregor looks proud, too. Proud of himself, of course, but also of Joey. So once Joey gets off the phone, Gregor offers up some fatherly advice.

[Carmine]

I understand what it is to be young. It's a tough phase. Until you're about 45, life is really difficult.

[Joey]

Oh, great.

[Carmine]

And then from there on in, it's all just sitting in one of those soapbox derby cars, rolling down the hill to your senescence and eventual death.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Gregory, you're depressing the guy.

[Carmine]

I'm coming to my Hallmark inspirational line. I'd say It's a tough 15 to 25 year period. It's very unpleasant, really, most of it.

[Joey]

Could you repeat that Hallmark line again?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And with that, Joey pulls off his unlikeliest feat yet. He gets in a genuine off the cuff zinger. Gregor and I had brought this big bird down. Big group hug. Come on, Gregor.

[Carmine]

Tang, woo, tang.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

There we go. Now that the furniture's returning to its goodwill home, now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damaged deposit, take this moment to decide.

[Joey]

If we.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meant it, if we tried. Hello, Joey.

[Joey]

Hey.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, wait. Here comes our surprise guest. You ready for it?

[Joey]

Who could it be?

[Carmine]

Who could it be?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Here it comes. Hey, Gregor. You look very moisturized.

[Carmine]

Did they have an HR policy where you're not supposed to comment on people's physical appearance? Because I think Johnny skipped that day when he was getting onboarded.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Well, that. I mean, that's a compliment, don't you think?

[Carmine]

Yes. Young lady, you look great in that dress. You really fill it out. Well, that's a compliment, too. I mean, come on, Johnny. Listen, I'm like you had a mullet and were rollerblading and eating a slice of pizza and had, like, 11 roommates.

[Joey]

Not too much has changed. Some things have improved.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Can I see the back of your head?

[Joey]

Still moldy.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And you've still got a mustache.

[Joey]

I do.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's grown in.

[Joey]

That's what seven years will do.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wow, look at that. You've grown up just in the blink of an eye.

[Joey]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So we just wanted to check in with you and see how you were doing.

[Carmine]

I want to hear about how now, like, you were sort of pushed out of the nest, that instead of falling to the sidewalk and getting eaten by a cat, you have taken off to soar with the seagulls.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Bernie and Ethel Siegel. All right, listen, we're getting off track here, Joey. We're here to hear about you.

[Joey]

I was enjoying this.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What's going on in your. In your life? Are you in la?

[Joey]

I actually, I'm in New York. I moved out here about four years ago.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How many roommates do you have?

[Joey]

This will shock you. Zero.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So, no, no bedsheet walls. Just all you.

[Joey]

I do live in, like, a large studio apartment, railroad style, where there's, like, multiple rooms without proper doors, so they are separated by what kind of looks like a bed sheet. It's like a curtain. I don't know if you can tell on the back.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Was that something that you were looking for? You. You told the real estate agent that you wanted something with bedsheets?

[Joey]

Yeah. I don't feel at home. Unless I'm around bedsheets Joey's doing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Joey's thriving. Look, he's got a couch. Is that a couch you're sitting on?

[Joey]

It's a chair. I don't have a couch.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh. Are you still rollerblading?

[Joey]

Of course, I still love rollerblading. But I also. I found that I love riding a bicycle too.

[Carmine]

I have a question.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, go ahead, Gregor.

[Carmine]

Is it not too personal? Are you drinking your own urine? What's that?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

All right, so good talk, Joey. Anything you'd like to say in parting?

[Joey]

I guess I want to say thank you for helping me all those years ago. It actually, I do think meant something. And it worked.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Did it really?

[Joey]

I think it did.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How so?

[Joey]

I felt a lot more confident after that. Just. Yeah. I mean, the lessons imparted on the day, but also just hearing it back over the years, I've revisited it and whenever I do, it makes me laugh first, but also kind of shows me how far I've come. So I'm grateful.

[Carmine]

This may come across as slightly patronizing, but I feel like Joey's all grown up.

[Joey]

I think I am. I think you're right.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, let's close this out by all together. Ready? Woo Tang Tang. Woo tang. Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together. We'll be back next week with another encore presentation of Heavyweight.

[Rinse Advertiser]

These days I can do anything from my phone book. A vacation order, a meal from a five star restaurant, buy and trade stocks. But maybe the most amazing thing I can do is make my dirty laundry disappear and then reappear perfectly washed and folded. I have Rinse to thank for that. I just schedule a pickup in the Rinse app [e-mail], a Rinse valet comes to get my clothes and before I know it, they're back, crisply folded and ready to wear. They even do dry cleaning, which is returned hanging in a nice Rinse garment bag. And with Rinse, my satisfaction is guaranteed. If for any reason I'm not happy, they'll reclean my clothes for free. Best of all, Rinse saves me tons of time each week. That's time I get to do something I love versus something I have to do. So if you want to save loads of time by not doing loads of laundry, remember, there's an app for that. Rinse. Sign up now and get $20 off your first [e-mail] that's R I N S E dot com.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.