2026 Update: Elyse

Summary

Heavyweight – 2026 Update: Elyse

Podcast: Heavyweight
Host: Jonathan Goldstein, Pushkin Industries
Date: March 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode revisits the story of Elyse, originally featured in an earlier season, and offers a dramatic update nearly eight years later. Jonathan Goldstein reunites with Elyse to explore the aftermath of her attempted reconciliation with her estranged father, Billy, and uncovers new developments—including other potential siblings and the ultimate fate of Billy. The episode is a poignant meditation on estrangement, closure, and the search for answers from a parent who remains emotionally elusive.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Call-In" Origin Story

• The episode began as an experiment in live call-in shows, leading to Elyse’s story surfacing unexpectedly ([00:42]).
  • “We were trying to do a call in show, but in our case, that basically failed. But it succeeded because we wouldn't have had this story without it.” – Jonathan ([00:45])

2. Elyse’s Early Recollection: Her Relationship with Billy

• Elyse paints Billy as a fun, adventurous father—until a pattern of chaotic, damaging behaviors emerged:
  • He ruined her credit, destroyed his marriage through affairs, and estranged himself without warning.
  • The estrangement: He left the country without telling her or her mother, communicating only via brief holiday emails for five years ([07:14]–[10:49]).
  • “Our idea of a family vacation was to, like, show up in a country with no plan and, like, rent a car and just like, drive around.” – Elyse ([07:47])

3. Attempts at Reconnection & Betrayal of Identity

• Billy started a new family in the Philippines, naming his new daughter “Elyse”—intensifying the sense of replacement for his original daughter ([11:59]–[12:09]).
  • “He actually named his new daughter my name Elyse... I just find it so insulting. It’s just such a transparent replacement.” – Elyse ([12:09])

4. Jonathan’s Mediation: Contacting Billy

• Jonathan acts as intermediary, first reaching out to Billy via email. Billy, surprisingly, is responsive and expresses remorse and regret, particularly about the pain caused to Elyse and her mother ([18:13]–[22:51]):
  • "I basically put bluntly, shit all over that woman on many occasions... There’s absolutely nothing that I won't be completely honest and open about.” – Billy ([21:08])
  • Billy expresses excitement to hear from Elyse, suggesting he’s been waiting for a sign she wants contact ([22:51]).

5. The Long-Awaited Call: Elyse Confronts Her Father

• Elyse and Jonathan call Billy together—her first time hearing his voice in five years ([26:24]–[37:10]).
  • Elyse emphasizes her pain and anger at feeling abandoned and replaced, and directly asks for an explanation.
  • “I feel like every time I let you back in and I forgive you for whatever has happened before, you end up just breaking my heart again… I do find it very insulting that you gave another child my name, my first and last name.” – Elyse ([29:33])
  • Billy deflects, blaming cultural differences for the name, then avoids providing any real explanation for leaving ([31:11], [33:46]).

6. Persistent Evasion and the Elusiveness of Closure

• Billy promises to provide written answers but never follows through ([39:11]).
  • "I'll be more than happy to do that. Every question that you may have..." – Billy ([35:29])
  • Post-call, Elyse reflects that she feels ‘steamrolled’ and acknowledges that she no longer feels responsible for the lack of relationship ([40:23]):
    • “I feel a lot less guilt now… we’ll never be as close as it sounds like he wanted us to be… maybe it’s okay that I don’t push for that.” – Elyse ([40:23])

7. Unexpected Family Ties: Discovering Martin

• Martin, a British man, reaches out to Elyse claiming to be another of Billy’s children, with a similar abandonment story. They discover parallels: Billy left Martin's life suddenly, moving abroad, and potentially fathered yet another son ([41:45]).
  • Elyse offers Martin emotional validation, sharing her own hard-earned conclusion:
    • “Whatever relationship you have in your head that you want with him is probably not possible… I can confirm that you’re genetically related, but that doesn’t guarantee that he will be a presence in your life in a way that you want, because he’s not able to do that for me.” – Elyse ([44:07])

8. Elyse’s Resolution: Accepting What Cannot Be Changed

• Elyse recognizes she has done her part to reach out, and that accepting her father as he is—not as she wants him to be—is the only sustainable path.
  • She plans to mirror his communication style:
    • “Happy whatever holiday it is. Hope you’re well. Love, Elyse.” ([44:32])

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The 2026 Update: New Revelations and Final Closure

1. New Siblings and Exile

• Elyse reveals that Billy fathered yet another child with a younger woman in the Philippines—the latest in a pattern ([47:27]).
  • “So there was eventually a younger sibling in the Philippines from a different woman… The last woman he took up with romantically was younger than me. Her name is Faith.” – Elyse ([47:27])

2. Billy’s Legal Problems and Death

• Billy was imprisoned (in detention) for lack of legal immigration status and possibly other crimes. He was later deported to Guam and ended up in Thailand, where he ultimately died ([48:00]–[50:01]).
  • “When he was in prison and in the hospital, like, at least I knew where he was… Then in early—essentially just over a year ago, he passed away in Thailand.” – Elyse ([49:12]–[50:01])

3. Emotional Aftermath

• Elyse, who receives her father’s ashes, feels “very mixed feelings”—having already grieved the loss of their relationship years earlier ([50:04]).
  • “I think I had grieved our relationship so much at that point that with his passing, it was more of a….Okay, this is over.” – Elyse ([51:31])

4. Reflection on the Podcast’s Impact

• Looking back, Elyse sees the call with her father as important in cementing that their relationship was “effectively over” and that nothing she could have done would have changed him ([51:37]).
  • She has not connected via DNA testing with Martin or other alleged siblings, citing privacy concerns, but is open to helping them seek closure ([52:17]).

5. A Life Moved On

• Elyse’s life is now stable, married to the partner she had just started dating at the time of the original episode. She expresses gratitude for the peace in her personal life, despite the chaos her father brought ([52:44]–[52:55]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Estrangement:
  • “The only connection I have to him is his Comcast email address.” – Elyse ([11:23])
• On Identity and Replacement:
  • “He actually named his new daughter my name Elyse. I just find it so insulting… like, I moved to a country and made a new you.” – Elyse ([12:09])
• Direct Plea for Honesty:
  • “You have to understand that you just disappeared and I had no context. Like I want to know what you were thinking when you left and, like, why you left. So, like, what happened?” – Elyse ([33:46])
• Billy’s Deflection:
  • “I'll be more than happy to do that… I will be more than happy to spend my evening starting to explain that to you.” – Billy ([35:29], [38:25])
• On Letting Go of Responsibility:
  • “I feel a lot less guilt now… The burden of us not having whatever relationship I think we should have is not as much on me.” – Elyse ([40:23])
• On Recognizing a Pattern:
  • “The reason Billy did what Billy did is because that's what Billy does.” – Jonathan ([44:32])
• Advice to Martin (and Herself):
  • “I can confirm that you’re genetically related, but that doesn’t guarantee that he will be a presence in your life in a way that you want.” – Elyse ([44:07])

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Timestamps for Significant Segments

• Call-in Origin & Episode Introduction: [00:42]–[06:31]
• Elyse’s First Call & Family History: [06:31]–[15:27]
• Jonathan Reaches Out to Billy: [18:13]–[22:28]
• Elyse and Billy’s Phone Conversation: [26:24]–[37:10]
• Immediate Emotional Processing: [40:05]–[41:45]
• Discovery of Extended Family: [41:45]–[44:32]
• 2026 Update—New Siblings, Prison, and Death: [47:27]–[50:01]
• Final Reflections: [51:37]–[52:55]

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is contemplative and bittersweet—mixing Goldstein’s dry, slightly self-deprecating humor with raw, sometimes awkward, but deeply honest conversations. The tone transitions from hopeful curiosity to weary acceptance, mirroring Elyse’s own emotional progression.

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Summary

Heavyweight’s 2026 Update: Elyse is a powerful exploration of the wounds left by parental abandonment, the limits of accountability and reconciliation, and the complicated path to relinquishing guilt. Elyse’s journey—from heartbreak and desperate hope for answers, through disillusionment, to clarity and acceptance—resonates for anyone who’s sought closure when it could not be found. In the end, Elyse reclaims her narrative and agency, reminding listeners that sometimes the closest we get to explanation is simply accepting that others are unable to provide it, and that moving forward doesn’t always require the cooperation of those who hurt us.

Transcript

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Pushkin. Hi, Jonathan. Hi. Come on in. You should make yourself at home in the studio because it is like a sec. You've been spending so much time in here.

[Elise]

Yeah, I actually sometimes just sleep in here. It's just easier than having to go home.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I don't know if you should be telling me that this might be a conversation with hr. Um, yeah. What are we. What are we listening to today?

[Elise]

Speaking of the studio, today we're gonna revisit an episode that started with us

[Elise (first call)]

sitting around in the studio.

[Elise]

It's called Elise.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, of course. I love this episode. It's a really good one that came

[Elise]

to us, as you'll hear, in an unconventional way.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, we were trying something new. We were trying to do a call in show, but in our case, that basically failed. But it succeeded because we wouldn't have had this story without it.

[Elise]

And we have a check in with Elise at the end about what's happened since. And truly some of the wildest updates, I would say, of any of these update conversations.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, I know you have a tendency to skew towards clickbait, but in this case, it's true. It's very eventful.

[Elise]

Yeah. What else is there to say?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

To quote Jay Z, what more can I say? Hello?

[Elise]

Yeah.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I thought you left the studio. Yeah. Let's lean back, let the story unfold, and let the story take us away. Oh, but before any of that, a word from our sponsors. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human if your finance team spends more time finding data than using it. If there's one entity here and one here and one here and one here. If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI native ERP solution that's powerful, painless, and proven. Learn more at intuit.com erp.

[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

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[Billy (Elise's father)]

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[Elise]

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[Billy (Elise's father)]

Hello?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, how is it that a seal keeps balls on their nose?

[Elise (first call)]

May I go now?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, no. I have something serious.

[Elise (first call)]

I have to put groceries in the house, then I've got to paint the door.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So you're painting the door to your house?

[Elise (first call)]

Yeah, I'm going to paint the door red. It's going to be very nice.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But you know what a red door symbolizes, right?

[Elise (first call)]

No.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Le Port Rouge is a bordello.

[Elise (first call)]

You're kidding, right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's how sailors would know. They would have them down by the Vieux Port and they would be able to know where they could.

[Elise (first call)]

You're kidding me, right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Make whoopee for money.

[Elise (first call)]

Hang on.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Who's that?

[Elise (first call)]

That's my neighbor.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Could you ask him about the red door? From Gimlet Media. Hi, I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is heavyweight. Today's episode, Elise. So now what happens? They're just gonna call? We'll see. Oh boy. Get ready. For a while back, my producers and I decided to try a phone in episode. Larry King, Rush Limbaugh and other Goldstein esque personalities had found success with them. So why, I wondered from the depths of my ignorance, couldn't I? And so full of hubris and hope, we open the phone lines and invite the whole world to call in with a small moment from their past. Something to revisit and resolve all during the course of a five minute phone call. This is why I got into this business. The, you know, the feeling of live radio. As I'm to learn. The thing about a phone in show is that you need people to phone in and nobody is. How's everyone's day? But just as I'm starting to wonder if Gimlet Media has forgotten to pay its telephone bill again. Oh, here we go.

[Elise (first call)]

I'm ready.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Nope, we're answering.

[Elise (first call)]

All right.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hello, this is Jonathan speaking.

[Elise (first call)]

Hi Jonathan, how's it going?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's going okay. Is this. What is. What's your name?

[Elise (first call)]

Elise, this is. I'm very surprised I got through. This is so exciting.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I guess you really lucked out. Elise is a longtime listener, first time caller from Washington D.C. and as it turns out, her call proves not only the first of the day, but also the last. And this is not just because we don't receive any other calls. It's because I'm completely drawn in by the story Elyse tells me about herself and her dad. What's his name?

[Elise (first call)]

Billy. Billy, yeah. So I guess basically I'm estranged from my father.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When Elise was a kid, Billy was the fun parent, the one who always had hours to play with her. The guy who, in spite of being something of a macho man, gave himself over to playing beauty salon, even allowing Elise to paint his toenails. Before the estrangement. Billy and Elise were really close, which is why not having any relationship now hurts the way it does.

[Elise (first call)]

He was my dad. Like, our idea of a family vacation was to, like, show up in a country with no plan and, like, rent a car and just like, drive around. And it was amazing. Like, that's what life with dad was like. It was like every day was an adventure.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Even the way Billy met Elisa's mom was like something out of a movie, the first act of a film noir. Billy was an Englishman driving through Chattanooga on a tourist visa when he got into a terrible car accident. And the physical therapist assigned to him was Elise's mom. Billy was still in a wheelchair when he talked her into sneaking him out of the hospital for their first date. Pretty soon after, they got married and had Elise. Billy never went back to England. Instead, he stayed with his family in Chattanooga and became a successful used car salesman.

[Elise (first call)]

I have a lot of things in my upbringing in life with him to be very grateful for. In addition to all the craziness in

[Jonathan Goldstein]

reference to her dad, Elise brings up craziness a lot. Like the crazy way Billy ruined her credit by opening a business in her name. Or the crazy time he drove home a brand new car only to have cops come looking for it with their guns drawn. Or the crazy way he destroyed his 24 year marriage with a series of affairs. There's one Christmas where he bailed on the family only to spend the holiday with another woman. And for all of these things, no matter how jarring or painful, Elise has found it in herself to forgive her father. But there's one thing she hasn't been able to forgive.

[Elise (first call)]

About five years ago, he moved out of the country without telling us.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Us is Elise and her mom. Elise's parents had been married her whole life, but had recently separated around the time of his disappearance. Her last good memory of her dad is watching him wave from the crowd as she crossed the stage at her college graduation. Days later, he disappeared. And disappeared is the word for it. Elise says that when she went over to his house, she found food rotting in the refrigerator and all the furniture still there. For a week. Elise had no idea what had happened to her father. And then she received an email. It simply said he'd be gone for a little while. And that email was the best way to stay in touch. There was no further explanation. The next time she heard from him was on her birthday six months later. A Christmas note. And that's more or less been the pattern for the last five years on

[Elise (first call)]

holidays and my birthday and stuff like that. His emails are very short, like three sentences or less. Sort of happy whatever holiday it is. I hope you're well. Love, dad.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

At first, Elise tried responding. She'd expressed some of her pain and anger in hopes of provoking a more substantial dialogue, but Billy would refuse to engage. So after an email pressing her father for answers, a few months would pass with no response. And then an email would land in Elyse's inbox wishing her a happy whatever holiday it is and hoping she's well. Love, dad. As though nothing was ever expressed and nothing was ever asked of him. Eventually, Ali stopped responding to his emails entirely.

[Elise (first call)]

We don't have a mailing address for him. I don't have his phone number. Like the only connection I have to him is his comcast email address.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you know where he's living?

[Elise (first call)]

He's in the Philippines. That's all I know. My mom has it pinpointed to like a region, but like there was never, like, he never told me where he was going or why. He never, he never explained why he left.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And this is what Elise wants, an explanation for his departure. An emotional, honest conversation where she can ask him why and what happened. Because in the five years since she last saw him, a lot has happened.

[Elise (first call)]

He started a new family. He also has like a wife and a kid.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Uh huh.

[Elise (first call)]

And then he actually named his new daughter my name Elise.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh my God.

[Elise (first call)]

I just find it so insulting. It's just such a transparent replacement. Like, I moved to a country and like, made a new you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So when people search for Elise on Facebook, the first result that comes up is New Elise and the page Billy made for her. Which means old Elise is forced to constantly explain that this is her dad's new daughter from his new family, who also just so happens to have her name.

[Elise (first call)]

Like, he just wants me to like, love him and be happy with him again. But the elephant in the room is that he's living mysteriously somewhere for half a decade and we've never discussed it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Elise feels like she and Billy are living in two different realities. She in the one where her Father abandoned her, and he. In the one where he did nothing wrong. She wants her dad to validate what she's seen and felt, to understand. Otherwise, how can they move forward? Are you wanting to have a relationship with him?

[Elise (first call)]

Part of me is because he's also. He's like, diabetic and, like, he's just kind of old and sick and might die, and I might never know. He's 65 and possibly working a very physically taxing job. He was working on container ships when he first moved over. And I've been passively choosing the route of not having a relationship, but the fear and the guilt gets worse with time.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And what would pursuing a relationship look like?

[Elise (first call)]

That's what I'm trying to figure out. It's like, yeah, I mean, he is my dad and he's. I feel like he's trying to maintain a relationship with me, and I just don't know how to work past it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I know I can sometimes come across as something of a meddler, but I only decide to get involved in the business of upturning people's entire lives after hours, sometimes even days of. Of careful consideration. But then, I've never hosted a call in show before. And so, adrenalized by the single flashing light on my switchboard and the imperial perch of my slightly elevated swivel chair, I dive in. Would you want me to call him up? And I say this, by the way, like, with the idea that this could be a terrible, terrible idea. I'm not championing this idea. This could be a stupid idea.

[Elise (first call)]

It's better than any of the ideas that I've had for the past five years. So, yeah, I think it would be helpful.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

My idea is to serve as Elyse's emotional advance scout to call up her dad and see if he might be ready after all this time to talk to Elise and offer some answers. Given what Elise has told me about her dad, I can't say I'm optimistic about that. But then again, I can't say I'm optimistic about anything.

[Elise (first call)]

Good luck with the rest of your calls.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No one's gonna call anyway, so.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I'm so sorry.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, this was a good call in show if your finance team spends more time finding data than using it. If there's one entity here and one here and one here and one here. If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI native ERP solution that's powerful, painless, and proven. Learn more at intuit.com erp alright, quick

[Sponsor Voice (Indeed/Ryan Seacrest)]

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[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

Yes, it's me again. We prepped. It's the time for empowerment and I've got a message for you. Gotta think about sexual health no matter what, when or with who. Yeah, yeah. To all you lovers out there, ain't no judgment. This is your cue. It's time to talk about pre special prophylaxis, a part of hiv. Talk to a health care provider and visit carefortheculture.com to learn more.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And so it comes to pass that I email Billy. As I await his response, I imagine various scenarios. Maybe Billy will treat me like a student loan officer. Sorry, sir, you've got the wrong Billy, he might say. Or perhaps he'll try to convince me I have the story all wrong, that Elise and her mom are the real villains. After a week and a half, I finally hear back from Billy and his actual response is more surprising than any I might have imagined. It's just a simple note apologizing for the delay. Billy explains it's the rainy season in the Philippines and it's been messing with his Internet. But he says he really wants to talk to me. To be honest with you, he writes, you are the only hope I have of communicating with Elise.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Hello?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, hi. This is Jonathan Goldstein speaking.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Hey Jonathan. It's a terrible evening. Here again, thunder and lightning. As I told you, rainy season. So. But anyway. So Elise contacted you?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Although Elise's last memory of her dad was at her graduation ceremony, Billy has a different final memory. And as he describes it, it was one of the most painful moments of his life. It was in the midst of the separation from Elise's mom.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I was walking out of the garage carrying a box, and you can see straight into the house from the driveway. And Elise was in the dining room. Well, when she saw me, she darted back into the living room and kind of hid herself so I couldn't see her. But I know for a fact that she saw me because we made eye contact.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I get that this had to have been painful for Billy, but as Elisa's interlocutor, I tell him this isn't about his pain. It's about his daughter's pain and her anger. And if they're to speak, he should be prepared for that. I can't imagine that's something Billy wants to hear, and I'm worried how he'll react.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

As far as her feeling anger on her mother's behalf, that I can assure you, is completely understandable.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Once again, Billy has managed to surprise me.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I basically put bluntly, shit all over that woman on many occasions. It was one particular Sunday morning that she was out cooking breakfast and the phone rings and there's a woman on the phone. And the woman says, hey, this is Angela. Can I speak to Billy? And my wife said, well, who are you? And she. She just openly told her. She said, well, I'm his girlfriend. Can you imagine a wife getting a phone conversation like that on a Sunday morning in the middle of breakfast, saying, I'm your husband's girlfriend? If Elise broaches that with you, I can assure you that every single word that she says is accurate. And if it's not a really ugly picture, she's left something out, because, trust me, it's a really ugly picture. But there's absolutely nothing that I won't be completely honest and open about. Jonathan, I have absolutely no problem discussing anything with you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After hearing everything Elise had to say about Billy's unwillingness to own up, his refusal to engage, I was expecting the worst. But Billy seems genuinely remorseful, apologetic, and even eager to hear his daughter out. He tells me he kept his distance out of fear that Elise didn't want to hear from him at all. But he thinks about her all the time.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I don't know if it's because I'm getting older. I don't know if it's because I feel like I've lost my daughter. I don't know what it is, but I was really excited when I found out that she had reached out to you to make contact with me. Because to me, that means she wants to get our Relationship. Relationship back. And and that is desperately what I.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

If your finance team spends more time finding data than using it. If there's one entity here and one here and one here and one here. If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI native ERP solution that's powerful, painless and proven. Learn more at intuit.com erp alright, quick

[Sponsor Voice (Indeed/Ryan Seacrest)]

quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse, being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously. Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non sponsored jobs. It really is a no brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for Indeed sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for indeed sponsored Jobs.

[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

Yes, it's me again.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We prepped.

[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

It's the time for empowerment and I've got a message for you. Gotta think about sexual health no matter what, when, or with who. Yeah, yeah. To all you lovers out there, ain't no judgment. This is a kid. It's time to talk about pre special prophylaxis, a part of HIV prevention. Talk to a health care provider and visit carefortheculture.com to learn more.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Elise, Hi. Hi. How are you?

[Elise]

Good.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Nice to meet you.

[Elise]

Nice to meet you too.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I've invited Elise to my office in Brooklyn so that we can call her father together. It will be the first time in five years that Elise hears Billy's voice. How are you feeling?

[Elise]

Very nervous.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You are?

[Elise]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you want some coffee? Nothing calms the Kishkas better than a nice cup of coffee. Elise declines and we settle in for some small talk while I set up the call. As we chat, I'm struck by Elyse's cultural sensitivity.

[Elise]

Wasn't it Canada Day recently? It was Happy Canada Day.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Thank you. I fumble around, incapable of an appropriately reciprocal well wish. Hmm. We're Three days after Canada Day. So that makes it the third, maybe the Fourth of July. Nah, I got nothing. I tell Elise about my conversation with Billy, how remorseful and open to talking he seemed. She's still worried, but says she wasn't even expecting things to progress this far.

[Elise]

I'm very surprised he spoke to you. I'm very surprised he was candid with you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So that's a positive, right? And that's a change.

[Elise]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So do you wanna. Shall we try this?

[Elise]

Sure.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Make the call.

[Elise]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So it's Monday, 6 in the evening. So it is 6am in the Philippines.

[Elise]

It's early.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. Well, let's try him.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Okay. Hello?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hello, is this Bill?

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hi, Bill. This is Jonathan Goldstein speaking.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Hey, buddy. What's going on?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Well, I. I'm here with Elise.

[Elise]

Hey, dad.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Hi. Hi, honey. How are you?

[Elise (first call)]

I'm.

[Elise]

I'm good. How are you?

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Everything is good this end.

[Elise]

That's good.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I'm glad that you approached Jonathan. Any communication that we can get, I think is really good.

[Elise]

Yeah. I'm sorry it took such a long time. I just.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

It's okay, honey. I understand. You have things to work through and problems and yes, things went wrong towards the end, and yes, they're 100% my fault. But if you think back, we shared a lot of great times.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But Elise isn't here to talk about the great times. She's here to talk about the bad times. In fact, she's written up some notes to make sure she doesn't leave any of her feelings or questions unsaid. The notes are in her hand, but she isn't looking at them. Instead, she speaks from the heart.

[Elise]

Okay. I have thought about emailing you back. I've just been so angry that I didn't think it would be productive. And, like, I have just wanted to, like, yell at you or cry or cuss you out for leaving and not expect anything. But I don't feel that, like, intense anger anymore. And I am sad that we don't have a relationship like we used to, but I feel like every time I let you back in and I forgive you for whatever has happened before, you end up just breaking my heart again. And I. I do find it very insulting that you gave another child my name, my first and last name, and I don't know. I don't know what relationship we're going to have in the future. I just. I had to sort of get some of this out for any of that to be possible.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Billy is silent for a while. When he finally does respond, he Skips right over the big question about his leaving without explanation and focuses on the second question instead, the question of Elisa's name.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Well, I can tell you that it was her mother who loves the name Elise. I should have contested and said, no, you know, let's rethink this one. But I didn't, at least to be honest with you, and I should have done. The Filipino culture and the Filipino thinking is different. I'll give you another example. One of your favorite dogs was Charlie. Okay, I've never owned a German shepherd over here, but we had a dog. But because of the stories that I've told. What did they call the dog? Charlie.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

By the look on her face, Elise doesn't seem reassured by the fact that, like her, Charlie, the beloved German shepherd from her childhood had also been replaced. Although I haven't been to the Philippines, it feels as though Billy is throwing an entire country under the bus to save his own hide. In the silence, I try to bring things back to what I think is Billy's strongest suit, his seemingly renewed capacity for repentance. I want Elise to hear what I heard in Billy during our first conversation, so I try to steer things in that direction. Bill, you know, you mentioned feeling regret. What would you do differently if you had a chance to do things over?

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I don't think that the final outcome would change much, to be honest with you. But I should have called or a family meeting, and I should have gone over it in detail with times and dates and plans.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

A family meeting about leaving your family was not the do over I was expecting. After having heard the level of Old Testament shame he'd expressed in our first phone call, I'm surprised that Billy's now talking in the language of meetings and launch dates. Elise stares down at the floor. She looks at me. Billy's not giving her what she needs, so she puts it to him as directly as she can.

[Elise]

Like, you have to understand that you just disappeared and I had no context. Like, I want to know what you were thinking when you left and, like, why you left. So, like, what happened?

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Well, there are lots of things that I would like to explain to you regarding my leaving.

[Elise]

Is it. I'm here. I'm listening. If there's anything you want to say.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Well, there were several. Several things that happened, Elise. It's a long story that I would like to explain to you step by step. Got kind of a really busy schedule.

[Elise]

Is there any, like, brief overview?

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Yeah, honey, I can answer your questions. I have an explanation, you know, for what happened. And I would Be more than happy to explain it to you in detail.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But then, nothing. The conversation goes round and round. Billy reassures Elise that he has explanations, explanations of every length and level of detail. It's just that he never actually shares any.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I'll be more than happy to do that. Every question that you may have,

[Jonathan Goldstein]

is

[Elise]

there anything you've wanted to say to me?

[Billy (Elise's father)]

There won't be a question that you will ask me that I won't answer.

[Elise]

Like, right now you're just telling me that you're going to tell me. Like, do you have anything to add?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Billy likes to talk about talking about hard things, but not actually talking about them. Still, Elise keeps pushing.

[Elise]

I understand that it's very painful for you, but I. There have been so many times when we've just glossed over insane things that have happened, crazy things.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I understand that there's got to be explanations for things that got said and actions that got taken and things that got done. And then when all of that is done in Elise's. Ask her last question. And I have told her every single thing that I want to tell her. And I appreciate

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Billy's not making any headway talking about the past, so he turns the conversation to the future.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I'm really hoping that before I do actually leave this place that I get to see you at least one more time. I don't want to die without seeing you again. I really don't.

[Elise]

Yeah, I don't. I don't want that either.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And with that, Elyse's hands fall into her lap. As an interlocutor, there isn't much for me to do. Elise hears what Billy is saying and not saying, and she doesn't need any help to understand. So I do the only thing I can. I sit beside her, commiserating with raised eyebrows and puzzled looks, saying without words, I see the same things you do, and it's not you. For the rest of the call, Ali stays quiet and allows Billy to talk, though it feels as though he's mostly talking to himself.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

It's gonna be okay. But don't. Don't look backwards anymore, honey. Don't go backwards. Just. There's too much pain back there. It kills me daily. Don't go back there. That's just our response to things that happened back then. But let's move forward. It's just so painful. It hurts. It hurts a lot.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As Billy tries to push away the past while cowering from the future, the present takes hold. The one Billy can't deny.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I am totally okay. Just wait one minute. Please, I'm on the phone. I. I know I'm totally, totally responsible for. But if there are any other explanations that I should give to you, Elise, you know, I'll be more than happy to do that. I will be more than happy to spend my evening starting to explain that to you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Billy promises that that evening, he'll send Elise an email, an email that will explain everything, but it never arrives. Not that night or the next or any night in the months that follow.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

I will email you later today. Okay. Leash?

[Elise (first call)]

Yeah.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Okay. Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, Bill. Well, have a good rest of the day.

[Elise]

Yeah. Thanks for. Thanks for talking, Dad. I appreciate it.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Okay. Have a great day, honey.

[Elise]

You, too.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Or a great evening.

[Elise]

Thanks. Bye.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How you doing? Once we're off the phone, Elise and I go over what just happened. She tells me she felt steamrolled, and I tell her that I felt it, too.

[Elise]

I wasn't really sure what I wanted to get out of it. I don't think that everyone gets sort of a, like, equally agreeable, compromised ending, but for a long time, I felt like the burden of us not having a relationship was on me because he would email and I would never respond, and that was kind of the end of it. And I feel like now that I have tried to contact him, like, the burden of us not having whatever relationship I think we should have is not as much on me. I feel a lot less guilt now. We'll never be as close as it sounds like he wanted us to be. I don't think that's likely. And, like, maybe it's okay that I don't push for that. I think he creates his own universe. Like, I lived. I was a permanent resident of, like, Billy World for a number of years, and I was glad to get off the ride. Like, you don't get to live in the university you create and expect it not to affect other people.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And other people have been affected. In recent months, Elise has been corresponding with a British man named Martin. And Martin was able to help Elise answer the question of why her father left in a way that Billy himself couldn't. Martin believes he's Billy's son, born before Billy left England for Chattanooga. So, unlike Elise, Martin grew up without a father because, like Elise, one day, without warning, his father left, moved to another country, and started another family. And from what Martin is saying, he's not the only one. There's another man living in England, he tells her, who also believes that Billy is his father. The two of them have been trying to reach Billy for years, in fact, it turns out that Martin and Elise have brushed against each other before. A long time ago, when Elise was growing up, she remembers the home phone ringing, usually around the holidays, and a young man with her father's accent on the line asking to speak to Billy. Back then, Billy said Martin was a distant cousin. And all these years later, Martin still feels like he's being pushed away. He just wants Billy to acknowledge him. In learning about Martin and her other possible half brother, how her story has repeated itself over and over, Elise has found the answer she needed. The answer Billy himself was never able to give her. It isn't about her or about Martin or anyone else. The reason Billy did what Billy did is because that's what Billy does. Martin and the other possible half brother are planning to take a DNA test and they'd like Elise to take one too. If their DNA matches hers, Martin says it's all the proof they'll need. Billy will have to accept them as his own. When I talk to her on the phone about it later on, Elise says she isn't sure a DNA test will give Martin the thing he's looking for. But she does want to help.

[Elise (first call)]

Knowing how much I wanted closure, it would definitely be good to be able to provide him some.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So the next time she and Martin speak, she'll offer him.

[Elise (first call)]

Whatever relationship you have in your head that you want with him is probably not possible. And like, I can confirm that you're genetically related, but that doesn't guarantee that he will be a presence in your life in a way that you want, because he's not able to do that for me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

In other words, Elise will tell Martin, I see the same things you do and it's not you. A few months after our call with her father, Elise and I check back in. She tells me she still hasn't heard from Billy, but she suspects that around the holidays, like always, she'll get that three sentence email. And when she does this time she'll write him back happy, whatever holiday it is. She'll write, hope you're well. Love, Elise.

[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

Now that the furniture is returning to its goodwill home,

[Jonathan Goldstein]

now that the last

[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

month's grant is scheming with the damage

[Billy (Elise's father)]

deposit, take this moment to decide if

[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

we meant it, if we tried

[Jonathan Goldstein]

or

[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

felt around for far too much

[Billy (Elise's father)]

from

[Sponsor Voice (Care for the Culture)]

things that accidentally touch.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Elise. Hi, how are you?

[Elise]

I'm doing well, how are you?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Good. Do you have another room? It sounds very roomy. It's roomy, which is a good quality for a room normally, but not for recording.

[Elise]

Let Me. I'm gonna go. I think sitting on the floor in our closet might be.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's the spirit.

[Elise]

It's gonna take me a second to

[Jonathan Goldstein]

relocate, so just totally take your time. This is a very big thing that I'm asking of you.

[Elise]

She. Hold on. Don't put her in the crate. Cause that's where I'm gonna be. Okay.

[Elise (first call)]

Yeah. Okay.

[Elise]

Can you hear me now?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes. Thank you. Thank you for your indulgence. Who were you explaining to that you were headed for the closet?

[Elise]

He actually was thinking about it. Cause it's been like, eight years since we first chatted. Yeah. When we first chatted, I had just started dating him, and he's now my husband.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, cool. And sorry, one last unrelated question. The crating. Was that a dog you were talking about?

[Elise]

Yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Thank God.

[Elise]

Yeah.

[Elise (first call)]

Sweetie,

[Jonathan Goldstein]

how are you?

[Elise]

I'm good. I have a number of updates about dad.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, yeah.

[Elise]

Things have transpired. So there was eventually a younger sibling in the Philippines from a different woman.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wait, sorry, Wait, we're talking about little Elise?

[Elise]

No, there was another one after that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Elise]

And she was. The last woman he took up with romantically was younger than me. Her name is Faith.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How did you learn about this development? Have you and your father been in touch?

[Elise]

Very little.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like birthdays and Christmas kind of thing.

[Elise]

Yeah. Maybe even less frequent than he had been doing beforehand. And then at some point between then and 2024, I can't remember exactly when his lack of legal immigration status in the Philippines did eventually catch up to him. And they put him in. In prison, like in detention, essentially, for a couple of years

[Jonathan Goldstein]

for. He was in prison for a couple of years?

[Elise]

Yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

In the Philippines?

[Elise]

Yes. Wow.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I. Does it. Does it even make sense? I mean, I don't know anything about Filipino law. That being there illegally would have been enough to put a person in prison for two years. Do you think maybe there's more to the story?

[Elise]

I think it's very possible, because I feel like I remember Faith saying to mom that he was getting charged with additional. Other things that she was so sure he didn't do. And me and my mom were like, it's much more likely that he did them.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wow. So how old a man was he at the time that they were. That he was sent to prison?

[Elise]

Probably in his 70s at that point or, like, just close to then. Eventually they did deport him to Guam. He eventually ended up in Thailand. And then in fall of 2024, the U.S. embassy started reaching out to me because he had been hospitalized in Thailand all of this is going to sound very terrible to say, but, you know, when he was in prison and in the hospital, like, at least I knew where he was. And then I think presumably his medical stuff continued to devolve. And then in early. Essentially just over a year ago, he passed away in Thailand.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Elise]

Very mixed feelings.

[Sponsor Voice (Indeed/Ryan Seacrest)]

Yeah.

[Elise]

I actually have his ashes, and I don't know what to do with them right now.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And what is the feeling of having them there? Do you feel like. I mean, do you have any feelings left?

[Elise]

It's. I was. Because I. After you all reached out, I went back and listened to the initial podcast reporting. And I remember immediately after, because we recorded that it sort of ended with the phone conversation that you facilitated between the two of us. And then within a couple of hours of that, I was driving back from New York to D.C. and I remember feeling so overwhelmed emotionally. I was feeling, I think, mostly anger at that point because I felt so stonewalled and, like, I couldn't really break through to him in any meaningful way. And I remember feeling like my heart was racing. I was so angry and sad. And I stopped at, like, a rest stop and called my mom and tried to, like, work through my feelings because I didn't want to drive in a rage for three more hours. I think I had grieved our relationship so much at that point that with his passing, it was more of a. Okay, this is over.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you think that conversation where we called him up, I mean, do you think ultimately it was helpful?

[Elise]

I think it was helpful in showing me that our. Our relationship, like, in many ways, was effectively over and that that was unlikely to change. I'm sure there are small things that I could have done differently, but I don't think there was any. I don't think I could have behaved in such a way that I got my dad back in any meaningful way.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. The story ends up, you know, with the story of Martin. What. What became of that? Did you do the.

[Elise]

Yeah, I haven't done. Yeah, I haven't done any DNA testing. More from, like, a data privacy concern.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is that the only thing that keeps you from. From doing it?

[Elise]

I mean, I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are other uninspected reasons. Yeah. I've clearly never made the effort to do it, which is, I guess, a signal in and of itself.

[Billy (Elise's father)]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So, I mean, just generally, like, top line, things are good. You're doing okay, you guys.

[Elise (first call)]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I mean, your husband, your dog, things are great. I'm so glad the dad updates are

[Elise]

all wild, but I'm grateful for my personal life being relatively stable.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Thanks, Elise. You may exit the closet now.

[Elise]

Excellent. Thank you. It was good to catch up.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together. We'll be back in two weeks time with something a little different. You might even say wildly different. You might say it's something of a wild card. Oh, also, if you haven't heard, we've started a free newsletter loaded with all kinds of fun word puzzles.

[Elise]

Much to my chagrin, we are now

[Jonathan Goldstein]

including word puzzle movies that we like. Photographs It's a potpourri. Would you say it's a potpourri? I would say it's a potpourri. Oh, excuse me. It smells as good as a potpourri and it looks great sitting on the basin of your toilet bowl.

[Elise]

You know it's online, right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is it? Everything's online these days. Even toilet bowls. So sign up for our exciting newsletter.

[Elise]

You need to give the link.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh yes, of course. Everything needs a link these days. The link is patreon.com heavyweight. If your finance team spends more time finding data than using it. If there's one entity here and one here and one here and one here. If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI native ERP solution that's powerful, painless and proven. Learn more at intuit.com erp hey, it's

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

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[Elise]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.