2026 Update: Tony

Summary

Heavyweight: 2026 Update—Tony

Podcast: Heavyweight
Host: Jonathan Goldstein (Pushkin Industries)
Episode: 2026 Update: Tony
Date: March 12, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Heavyweight revisits one of the show’s most memorable stories from the very first season: Jonathan’s friend Tony and his complicated journey to reconnect with his godchildren after years lost to addiction, divorce, and caretaking. Host Jonathan Goldstein and producer Khalilah Holt check in with Tony years later for an honest, moving, and sometimes comedic update, exploring themes of second chances, regret, aging, and the surprising ways relationships can endure and evolve.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Revisiting Old Episodes and Updates

• Jonathan and Khalilah set a playful and sincere tone as they introduce the episode and tease the upcoming check-in with Tony, whose original story centered on life after addiction and his attempts to rebuild relationships with his three godchildren.
• [00:41] Khalilah: “We are gonna revisit some favorite episodes this spring.”
• [01:30] Khalilah: “We’re going to also check in with our former guests because, you know, a lot of them have had some changes in the years since.”
• Light banter about cake decorations and “old sausage” vs. “young sausage” set an affectionate vibe.
• [03:26] Jonathan: “So enjoy. Yeah, enjoy. We’ll check in with Tony at the end of the episode. And not to overpromise, but there’s just a lot that’s gone on in his life and a lot that continues to go on.”

2. Recapping Tony’s Original Heavyweight Story (Main Segment)

• The original episode recounted Tony’s struggles post-divorce, his regrets over missed fatherhood, and his realization that meaningful relationships with young people—his godchildren—were missing from his life.
• Tony’s backstory: once a vibrant, wild film student, he fell into addiction and spent years rebuilding, forming a meaningful relationship with Natalie, only to see it end as he became tethered to caring for his aging mother.
• [10:43] Tony: “She was not happy. She just didn’t want to be here.”
• Jonathan narrates Tony’s sense of isolation and existential questioning:
  • [11:41] Tony: “I don’t think there’s a point to anything if you don’t have a relationship with a young person.”
  • [11:48] Tony: “If I sit here in the dark thinking about it … I’m 46 years old and I live alone and I’m not, you know, probably not going to have kids … who gives a shit if I live or die, aside from my mother and a few friends, but really, who gives a shit, you know, who’s going to feel a loss?”
• Jonathan encourages Tony to reconnect with his godchildren: “You don’t know until you at least try, right?” [13:18]

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3. Reaching Out to the Godchildren: Three Attempts at Reconnection

A. Paul (Godchild #1): The One Who Drifted Away

• Tony attempts to meet with Paul, his oldest godchild, but despite repeated calls, it never materializes.
  • [16:00] Jonathan: “On Saturday, Tony called with no response. He reached out again and again. Eventually, he gave up. Tony and Paul never got together.”
• This failed outreach frames the emotional stakes and underlines the passage of time.

B. Zoe (Godchild #2): The Road Trip Improv Bond

• Zoe, daughter of a rehab friend, lives in Ottawa. Jonathan accompanies Tony for a road trip to see her.
• They bond over improv, candy, and Tony’s impromptu (and disgusting) story about “the vomit house.”
  • [19:51] Tony: “I have a really good disgusting story to tell you.”
  • [20:13] Jonathan: “Oh my God.”
• The two awkwardly improv a scene together, echoing missed connections and tentative new beginnings.
• They discuss the meaning of godparenthood as adults:
  • [22:41] Tony: “The Godfather, traditionally … is supposed to provide spiritual instruction. And I wasn’t there when you were really young…”
  • [23:00] Zoe: “I always knew that you had this connection to my parents that was really valuable. So by extension, you’d be valuable to me even though I didn’t know you that well.”
• They recognize the relationship is now less about parent/child and more about being there for each other as fellow adults:
  • [23:25] Tony: “That’s the point … that I’m here for you.”
  • [24:44] Zoe jokes: “If you’re ever in dire need for like a caregiver when you’re old and can’t go to the bathroom or something, like, I could help you.”

C. Nicholas (Godchild #3): The Present Connection

• Nicholas, the youngest, is nine, and the son of Tony’s cousin. Tony once shared godparenting with Natalie. After the breakup, he struggled to visit Nicholas without being reminded of Natalie.
• The reunion is bittersweet. Nicholas immediately asks about Natalie and wishes Tony and Natalie would reunite:
  • [29:23] Nicholas: “How’s Natalie?”
  • [29:30] Nicholas: “If you just could get back with her, that would be a relief.”
  • [30:18] Nicholas (memorable quote): “It’s over for ya. It’s over for ya, old sausage.”
• They reflect on Tony’s role:
  • [33:04] Tony: “What kind of godfather do you want me to be?”
  • [33:08] Nicholas: “I wanted you to be the same thing as you are right now.”
  • [33:12] Nicholas: “You’re a really good godfather.”
• The warmth is mutual. Nicholas’s affection and acceptance affirm Tony’s efforts.
  • [33:25] Tony: “Thank you. That’s awesome. Cool.”

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4. The Update: Where Is Tony Now?

Following the original story, Jonathan checks in with Tony years later for a candid and reflective conversation about where life has taken him.

A. Life Developments

• Zoe is now 28, dating a “nice Greek boy,” happily settled and successful.
  • [36:07] Tony: “She didn’t move far from home … she’s really building a strong foundation and she’s very happy.”
• Nicholas has become a “star athlete” and turned into a resilient young man, still sharing a strong bond with Tony.
  • [36:47] Tony: “He’s like coaching me now … we have a good relationship. We have a really good time.”

B. Tony’s Journey: Searching for a Place

• Tony now lives at the Clear Sky Meditation and Study Center in the Canadian Rockies, trying out semi-monastic communal living.
  • [37:36] Tony: “Here is the Clear Sky Meditation and Study Center … it’s where I live with 12 other people … I’m trying it out for a year.”
  • [38:23] On discovering the center: “I owe this to my former mother in law … it was traditional religious Buddhism … but he was a very down-to-earth teacher and made a lot of sense to me and I connected quickly.”

C. Caring for His Mother and Letting Go

• Tony’s mother, whom he once cared for every day, has passed away. The experience was transformative:
  • [39:57] Tony: “My stint as a parent, you know, the closest I’m ever going to get to being a parent, is taking care of my mom for a few years while she was unable to take care of herself … it brought my relationship with her to a very, paradoxically, a very good close.”
• Reflects on the challenges and strangeness of caring for someone at the end of life versus raising a child.

D. Grappling with Middle Age & Uncertainty

• Tony meditates on aging, a lack of “structure” in life, and the drift of old friends:
  • [41:52] Tony: “What does it mean to me? It means the time is running out … my oldest and dearest friends are scattered all over the place … I don’t have a family … I keep coming back to that.”
  • [43:44] Tony: “You’re in free fall. And now it’s like kindergarten all over again … not knowing. Really not knowing.”
  • [43:57] Jonathan: “But is that exciting also at all?”
  • [44:01] Tony: “Yeah, it is. It’s very exciting.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Tony’s anxiety about purpose and connection:
  • Tony: “I don’t think there’s a point to anything if you don’t have a relationship with a young person.” [11:41]
• On godparenthood’s meaning:
  • Tony: “Godfather’s a big fucking deal. If you think about it. It has a spiritual implication. God. Right. It’s not toilet, Father.” [15:13]
• Nicholas on Tony being a godfather:
  • Nicholas: “You’re really good.” [33:23]
• On the passage of time and aging:
  • Tony: “What does it mean to me? It means the time is running out. Like, really, like, I’m really starting to get a sense of like, you’re on the downslope.” [41:52]
• Finding hope in uncertainty:
  • Tony: “Anything is possible right now. Like, at this moment in time, anything is possible. I don’t know what I’m gonna do.” [39:18]

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Notable and Poignant Moments

• The “old sausage” cake anecdote and Nicholas’ “It’s over for ya, old sausage” (comedic callback and summation of Tony’s self-deprecating humor) [30:18]
• Improv and honesty bridge the gap between Tony and Zoe, even if the roles of godparent and godchild have changed.
• Jonathan’s gentle, teasing encouragement and affection for Tony run through the entire episode, highlighting the core friendship behind the story.

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Final Reflections

Heavyweight’s update of Tony is a moving (and at times, laugh-out-loud) meditation on regret, repair, and embracing uncertainty as we age. Through bittersweet stories and honest admissions, Tony’s life shows that while time can close some doors, it leaves others ajar, waiting for us to step through—if imperfectly, then authentically, on our own terms.

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Useful Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:30] — Show setup: Revisiting old guests
• [11:41] — Tony’s existential reflections
• [14:34] — Discussing the meaning of being a godparent
• [16:00] — Paul’s failed connection attempt
• [18:44] — Road trip to see Zoe
• [23:00] — Tony and Zoe discuss their relationship
• [26:23] — Introduction to Nicholas
• [29:23] — Nicholas asks about Natalie
• [33:01] — Nicholas affirms Tony’s role as godfather
• [36:07] — Zoe’s present life
• [37:36] — Tony describes life at the retreat
• [39:57] — Reflections on caring for his mother
• [41:52] — Tony on aging and friendships drifting away
• [43:44] — “You’re in free fall” – the feeling of unmooring in middle age
• [44:01] — Tony finds excitement in uncertainty

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Tone and Style

Heavyweight’s signature blend of dry humor, self-reflection, and emotional candor shines throughout, with Jonathan’s wry narration interlacing Tony’s raw honesty and the kindness, awkwardness, and hope that come with every reunion and update.

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For long-time listeners or those meeting Tony for the first time, this episode is a portrait of middle age, human frailty, and the possibility of connection—no matter how late.

Transcript

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Pushkin.

[Khalilah Holt]

Hello, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Who is this?

[Khalilah Holt]

Hi. This is Khalilah Holt, your producer.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Well, hello.

[Khalilah Holt]

Hello.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Nice to have you back in the studio. Welcome.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah. Nice to be reunited in this auditory space.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes, indeed it is. Have a seat, please.

[Khalilah Holt]

I'm already sitting, but thank you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes.

[Khalilah Holt]

We are gonna revisit some favorite episodes this spring.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes. I couldn't be more excited.

[Khalilah Holt]

You sound not excited at all. But really? Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You know, sometimes my enthusiasm doesn't come across, and I'm always surprised. Same like in photos. I think that I'm smiling, but then when I see the photos, not only am I not smiling at all, it looks like I'm scowling.

[Khalilah Holt]

I have a really hard time showing enthusiasm, too. I've noticed that often when I try to, like, really lean into enthusiasm in my voice, it sounds like I'm being sarcastic.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. But I am excited. And I'm going to prove to you my excitement and my enthusiasm as this conversation goes on.

[Khalilah Holt]

Okay, I look forward to that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes.

[Khalilah Holt]

And we're going to also check in with our former guests because, you know, a lot of them have had some changes in the years since.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Whereas stories end, lives continue, and so

[Khalilah Holt]

lives do end eventually.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, God. Thanks for bringing the whole thing down. Jesus.

[Khalilah Holt]

I'm just. I mean, it's. Everyone's thinking it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

All right, anyway, who are we talking about today?

[Khalilah Holt]

So today we're gonna revisit the episode. Jonathan, about your friend Tony from our very first season.

[Tony]

I love it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's been a long time.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah. That was my favorite episode that season. Something about it just really moved me. Again, it sounds like I'm being sarcastic, but I'm serious. I really liked it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, no, I believe you. It's a personal favorite of mine because Tony's one of my best friends and he's an interesting man and his life beyond the story continued to be interesting and flow in all kinds of unexpected and original directions. So I was really excited to check in with him after we kind of. What's the thing that they do in movies, like, after the wrap party of this episode?

[Khalilah Holt]

And actually, speaking of rap parties.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes. You want me to do some rapping?

[Khalilah Holt]

No. No, thank you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay.

[Khalilah Holt]

I have a fun little fun story from production.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, please.

[Khalilah Holt]

Which is that there's a part in this where one of Tony's godson says, it's over for you, you old sausage.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Khalilah Holt]

When we celebrated the first season, I, at the suggestion of Chris Neary, one of the producers on the first season, went and got a cake and I asked them to put on it's over. Y old sausage.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I do remember this and I thank you. I thank you again for that. But if you had to do it all over again, if you were to make edits, might you say, it's not over, ya young sausage.

[Khalilah Holt]

It's still going, ya young sausage.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Um, so enjoy. Yeah, enjoy. We'll check in with Tony at the end of the episode. And not to over promise, but there's just a lot that's gone on in his life and a lot that continues to go on.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But first things first. A word from our sponsors. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, everyone. When Heavyweight returned last year, we were so encouraged by the heartfelt messages from you, our dear listeners. I can safely say that without you, Heavyweight wouldn't exist today. So thank you. And if you want to take your valuable support to an even higher invaluable level, consider signing up for Pushkin Plus. It makes us look good to our bosses. And you'll get to listen to Heavyweight ad free because you'll be the sponsor plus. And this is what really puts the plus in Pushkin Plus. You'll also get bonus material. If you want to get 25% off an annual Pushkin plus subscription, head to Pushkin FM plus and use the code HEAVY25. Thanks for your support.

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[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

Come get me outside. We have to leave in about 10 minutes. Okay.

[Khalilah Holt]

Hi, this is Kila from Gimlet Media. Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

I'm sorry, who is this?

[Khalilah Holt]

Kila from Gimlet Media. Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

Please hold. Please hold.

[Tony]

Yeah. Wow.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

Hello.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hello.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

How nice of you to take the call from yourself.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, hey, Jackie.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

You seem surprised that you called me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So nice to hear from you.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

I didn't call you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I didn't realize that I had you on my calendar. But this is great. How are you doing? It's been so busy. It's nice to, like, decompress and have a normal conversation. How's it going? From gimlet media. I'm jonathan goldstein and this is heavyweight. Today's episode. Tony.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

Paul, how are you? Very good, thanks. I was wondering if you would be up for meeting me for an hour. Okay, what about? I was absent for most of your life and you know I've always felt bad about it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Here's something you don't hear every day. A Godfather awkwardly asking out his 31 year old godson on a God date.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

I know you're busy, I know you're crazy ass life mouth father of who. But if you can spare an hour, like Monday or Tuesday night, you know, I'll bring, unfortunately, a week in advance. Not. I don't know what the hell's going on.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The Godfather being blown off is my friend Tony. The realization that he needed to be a better godfather came suddenly. It was like if Vito Corleone woke up one morning and thought, you know, godfathering should be more than just decapitating horses. And then picked up a rotary phone and asked Johnny Fontaine out on an ice cream date. But to explain how Tony got to this point, let's go back to the beginning. It all started when Tony and I were catching up. And regarding work, how is that going?

[Tony]

Good. It's really great. I'm actually enjoying the process of making this film, which is, I think, the really amazing thing about the past year.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This past year has been a hard one for Tony. He's recently divorced and still adjusting the house. That has been settled.

[Tony]

Yeah, everything is settled. Everything is settled. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I first met Tony in college when he was a young film student with manic energy. Gene Shallet, curly black hair and gray clothes that always smelt of Greek food. After college, we became roommates, and on the weekend his mother would visit, she referred to me as Gazzo Melismiano Evriacchi, which I think translates loosely as the alley cat haired little Jew. But I didn't mind, because whenever she showed up, she brought homemade spinakopita and terra musulata. Tony would wash down these Grecian delights with copious amounts of booze. Pretty soon, he started washing everything down with booze. There's an image from that time that stuck with me. Tony had decided to join me at the gym after downing a half bottle of vodka. I remember him wailing on the heavy bag in his undershirt and gray jeans, looking a little like a kid pounding on the floor. Fed up with everything, eventually Tony turned to harder drugs like heroin. And soon after that, we stopped being roommates. Tony went to rehab, and after he Got out, spent some years putting his life back together. He had a few relationships and then he met Natalie. Natalie was smart and loved to write. And when Tony hugged her, she disappeared into his body. Tony's a big guy with a thick black beard covering his boyish face. And Natalie was apple cheeked and glamorous. I like being around them. One time, while walking by a curiosity shop, I saw a comically small ping pong table in the window. Immediately I thought of Tony and Natalie. I imagined the two of them in their kitchen, smacking the little ball back and forth together and laughing. During their wedding vows. Natalie said, I vow to grow old with you, but most of all to grow young with you. And Tony interrupted her right in the middle, eyes welling up to say, me too. It was like he'd blown his youth but was getting another chance. But then at some point around three years in, things started to get tougher. Tony spent a lot of time locked in his studio, working obsessively on his movies. And Natalie started to feel hamstrung by Montreal. Its smallness, the lack of opportunities. They wanted a baby, but were having a hard time with it. And then Tony's dad died, making him the sole caretaker of his mother. A woman who didn't shy away from espousing strong opinions about her son's personal life. All of this was hard on him and Natalie.

[Tony]

She was not happy. She was not happy. She was not happy. She just didn't want to be here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Natalie wanted to start a new life in a new place, but Tony felt happily stuck in the old one and he couldn't leave his mother all alone. So when Natalie decided to leave town, he knew he couldn't go with her. Was there ever a conversation in which you were both trying to envision a way in which you could leave the city?

[Tony]

No. Because there was no way, like even

[Jonathan Goldstein]

with your mother, to go with you. Why is that?

[Tony]

No.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Tony's mother is an 84 year old Greek woman with little English whose only hobbies are meticulously cleaning her toaster oven and wringing her hands while frowning. And so in here lies the heart of Tony's current problem. Before they separated, Tony and Natalie were trying to have a baby. And now he finds himself alone, middle aged and worried he's missed his last chance to have a kid.

[Tony]

I don't think there's a point to anything if you don't have a relationship with a young person.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How do you mean?

[Tony]

If I sit here in the dark thinking about it and realizing, you know, I'm 46 years old and I live alone and I'm not, you know, probably not going to have kids and who the fuck gives a shit if I live or die, aside from my mother and a few friends, but really, who gives a shit, you know, who's going to feel a loss? I'm not saying that in an egotistical way, but who do I mean something to? Whose life have I enriched? Like, I don't think, I don't understand what there is to do here if you're not somehow helping or being connected to a younger person.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Lately, Tony's been thinking about three young people he had been connected to. His estranged godchildren. Tony admits to screwing up those three relationships during three difficult chapters in his drug addiction rehab and divorce. What if you were to try to get them back in your life?

[Tony]

I just, I'm not sure what difference I can make in somebody's. It's kind of like, hey, here I am now. I'm ready for you. Like, I haven't been here all these years, but hey, here I am now, you know.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hearing my friend give up on himself so easily, I decided to suggest something bold. Why not try reaching out to the God kids he lost?

[Tony]

Now, about them, I mean, I, I, I actually do want to have a relationship. I do.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You. You don't know until you at least try, right?

[Tony]

I'm, I'm, I'm open to anything.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And do you, do you have, do you have their phone numbers? I get him to tell me about them, beginning with the first. Paul.

[Tony]

I was 16 years old. It was very formal. I, I held this kid in a Greek Orthodox baptism ceremony for an hour. My arm. Babies are really heavy, especially when you have one arm to hold onto them and have a candle in the other. Yeah, but it was cute. You know, I was really young and I was close to their family, but I was 16 within like two years. I was a raving lunatic, alcoholic drug addict. I didn't see much of him or anybody at all from the family for quite a few years. And I didn't think about him much, that's for sure.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And this God kid, what's his name?

[Tony]

His name is Paul.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And Paul would be about 30 years old now.

[Tony]

Yeah, he's 31. And here's the thing. I've never actually talked to him about how he felt having an absentee godfather, but he beat me at an arm wrestle and I think he really enjoyed that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And when you say enjoyed that, he enjoyed hanging out and spending time with you or he enjoyed beating you, enjoyed Beating me for. For. For being such a crappy godfather?

[Tony]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is there a particular question that you would want to pose to him or to all of them?

[Tony]

Do you hate me? Like, does it mean anything if. That I'm somebody's godfather? Because I said so or somebody said so, or we did something a long time ago. It can mean nothing or it can mean something. You know, Godfather's a big fucking deal. If you think about it. It has a spiritual implication. God. Right. It's not toilet, Father.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And so, with my encouragement, Tony picked up the phone and reached out to Paul. Which brings us back to the phone call you heard earlier.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

Want me to call you on Saturday? Yeah, I think that's. That'll be easiest.

[Tony]

Okay.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

Are you. Are you up to this? You don't feel like I don't want to impose on you, Like. Oh, no, I just. You said, you know, you feel bad. I don't think you should. There's nothing to feel bad about. Yeah.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

But, yeah, give me a call the weekend, and we'll try to figure something out.

[Tony]

Okay, great.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

I'm gonna call you. Perfect. All right. Sounds good. Oh, take care, YouTube. Bye.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

On Saturday, Tony called with no response. He reached out again and again. Eventually, he gave up. Tony and Paul never got together. Hey, everyone. When Heavyweight returned last year, we were so encouraged by the heartfelt messages from you, our dear listeners. I can safely say that without you, Heavyweight wouldn't exist today. So thank you. And if you want to take your valuable support to an even higher invaluable level, consider signing up for Pushkin Plus. It makes us look good to our bosses. And you'll get to listen to Heavyweight ad free because you'll be the sponsor plus. And this is what really puts the plus in Pushkin Plus. You'll also get bonus material if you want to get 25% off an annual Pushkin plus subscription. Head to Pushkin FM plus and use the code HEAVY25. Thanks for your support, Tony. And I reconvened, and I tried to bolster his spirits. Maybe things would go better with GotChild II.

[Tony]

Zoe, she is the daughter of a rehab buddy who was actually also a drug dealer here in Montreal. When I was dealing in Montreal and we met in rehab in Ottawa, and he asked me, do you want to be her godfather? I said, sure. I said, are you guys gonna baptize her? They said, no, but you're her godfather. Okay, great. So it was just like that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So that was easy.

[Tony]

Yeah. But it was meaningful. I was Happy to do whatever was gonna be required of me. And I did see the kid, you know, when she was young. And then I moved to Montreal, and so she basically grew up without me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

In the intervening years, Toni's only seen Zoe a couple times. When she comes to town, she doesn't bother looking him up because I remember

[Tony]

how I used to see people that were like, never mind 40s. Yeah, like people in their 30s were crusty, you know, yellow toenailed, you know, old people. And occasionally, you know, I get like, she likes something on my Facebook page. And I'll be like, ooh.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But Tony wants more than that. Since Zoe still lives in Ottawa, just a two hour drive away, I suggest he go visit her. Maybe it isn't too late. But after his failed attempt with Paul, he isn't sure she'll even want to see him. So I offered a road trip down with him for emotional support. You know, the whole purpose of this thing is for you not to be a deadbeat God, dad.

[Tony]

I know. I feel really bad. It's my fault.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's Zoe's last week of high school and Tony's arranged to pick her up after her day of finals.

[Tony]

You don't mind driving a little fast, do you? Don't go like snail pace, grandma style.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's my style. Grandma style.

[Tony]

No, don't do that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When we get to the school, Zoe's waiting outside. All right, here we go. You feeling good?

[Tony]

I'm feeling good. There we go. Here we go. Here we good. Hello. Hello.

[Zoe]

How are you?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Zoe is 18. She's wearing a yin and yang choker around her neck and a pink scrunchie in her hair.

[Tony]

So how's everything? How are you?

[Khalilah Holt]

Really good.

[Zoe]

Almost done.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

High school?

[Zoe]

Yeah, the final frontier.

[Tony]

So let's go to the park.

[Various Callers (including Jackie)]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Would you like some candy, Zoe? As Tony's emotional support system, I thought it might be helpful to bring refreshments. We drive along, chewing in silence. And then Tony decides to break the ice.

[Tony]

I have a really good disgusting story to tell you.

[Zoe]

Oh, well, can you contextualize what disgusting.

[Tony]

Oh, my God. I'm only thinking about it because it happened right around here.

[Khalilah Holt]

Oh, no.

[Zoe]

I don't like where this is going.

[Tony]

A friend of mine has been collecting his vomit for the past 20 years in a gigantic tin. Like a gigantic metal drum in the basement.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, my God.

[Zoe]

What the heck?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I wasn't expecting that. Me neither.

[Zoe]

That's so terrible. Why would you bring something like that up right now?

[Tony]

Because it happened right around here.

[Zoe]

So, like, how did you find out about that?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So many questions. And fun fact, the vomit house is on Ralph Street. Google map it. It's right there next to Brown's Inlet. The park. We're on our way.

[Zoe]

I've only been to this park once before and that was a weird day.

[Tony]

Explain.

[Zoe]

I started dating this guy and, like, the first time we ever hung out outside of school was in this park. We were on those swings and I just remember being like, wow, this is really weird. Like, this is a date. So I guess that was like my first date.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We find a picnic table beside the playground where young mothers are playing with their babies. Tony and Zoe sit side by side, she fiddling with a strand of hair and he staring at the table, sweeping pebbles of sand back and forth. The two of them catch up. It turns out Zoe's taking improv classes and Tony's taking improv classes too.

[Tony]

Oh, I'd love to see that.

[Zoe]

I'd love to see that you'd like my troupe. I think you'd like those guys a lot.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Being both a friend who wants to encourage bonding as well as a lover of show business, I ask if they might improvise a scene or two.

[Tony]

This is my favorite bench.

[Zoe]

It's funny because it's also my favorite bench and I've actually never seen you sitting here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But instead of the comedic romp I'd hoped for, I get a sluggish five minute piece of Samuel Biketty in theater.

[Zoe]

So I guess what I'm saying is you'll either have to move to the bench that's beside mine or beside his.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And scene. I thought, like, improv was supposed to

[Tony]

be well, because usually there's energy and you're on stage and you're like, you're doing stupid shit and people are laughing. You're not laughing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And in my heart, it feels like Christmas morning on Ralph street as Tony and Zoey begin to bond.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tony]

You look solid. Yeah, you just look so. I'm playing to my audience. Look at you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

They're having fun. But Tony's still thinking about godfatherhood. Tentatively, he brings it up.

[Tony]

The Godfather, traditionally, well, godfather is supposed to provide spiritual instruction. And I wasn't there when you were really young, when you were told, when you were young. This is Tony. He's your godfather. Yeah. Do you remember that?

[Zoe]

I always knew that you would. You had this, like, connection to my parents that was really valuable. So by extension, like, you'd be valuable to me even though I didn't know you that well.

[Tony]

Yeah. What do you. What can I offer you at this point, from this point onward in a formal fashion.

[Zoe]

I don't know what you hope for me to provide for you is like.

[Tony]

To provide for me?

[Zoe]

Yeah, I mean, it's a two way street. I mean, I can't just like take so much and not give anything to you, so.

[Tony]

Well, that's the point. The point you don't, you know, that's the point is that I'm here for you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That is the point. With a God child, not so much with a God adult. The children's book is called the Giving Tree, not the Giving and Taking Tree. Children aren't self conscious. They don't find it weird to take without giving anything in return. But adults do. I'm beginning to feel like pushing Tony to reconnect with his godchildren might have been foolhardy. Tony can't just insert himself into a past he missed out on. And as for the future, Zoe's getting ready to go off to college. She's at the point in life when actual parents see less and less of their kids, never mind godparents.

[Tony]

She was a little bit country and he was a little bit rock and roll. That was the song. I'm a little bit country. Yeah, I'm. No, it's the reverse. I'm a little bit.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As Tony sings both parts of Adani and Marie duet, Zoe watches him with a big smile on her face. It's clear they really enjoy each other. And the afternoon goes well. But as far as the God parental relationship Tony wants, it feels like it just might be too late.

[Tony]

I'm really impressed. I think you're got a pretty fucking firm hold on things.

[Zoe]

Well, I mean, if you're ever in dire need for like a caregiver when you're old and can't go to the bathroom or something, like, I could help you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Only one godchild to go. Will Tony be a godfather or a toilet father? Is the cat still in the cradle? And if so, will he scratch Tony's eyes out when roused from his godfatherless slumber? Well, find out after these important messages from our sponsors.

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

Tony's first godchild, Paul, didn't have the time for a relationship. And his second godchild, Zoe, had outgrown the whole Godfather goddaughter thing. That left him one last chance. Nine year old Nicholas Godchild iii.

[Tony]

Nicholas godchild number three is Nicholas, the son of my cousin.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This one is especially challenging for Tony because unlike with Paul and Zoe, Tony's not the only godparent in the picture. Tony's ex wife, Natalie, was warm and likable. When they started dating, she helped him reconnect with his family. So much so that when Nicholas was born, his mom, a cousin Tony wasn't even especially close to, asked them both to be his godparents. Tony and Natalie were together at Nicholas's baptism.

[Tony]

I was holding him and he was really upset until I took him. And he was quiet the whole time. And everybody was kind of spooked by the fact that he was suddenly so quiet when I was holding him. So there was this whole kind of energy around like, oh, why is the power Tony has over Nicholas? Or why is he so quiet? And everybody seemed to make a kind of a strange impression on people. And it felt good to sort of be, I guess for whatever reason had nothing to do with me. Somehow this kid felt soothed or calmed by me. And we baptized the kid, we had a big party and then we started. We were there every year, like three, four times a year, which is pretty good. But it was all good. But it was all about being with Natalie.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Natalie was the initiator. She's the one who planned the godparent stuff, like trips with Nicholas to the movies and the museum. Nicholas loved Natalie and related to her and Tony as a unit. So when that unit split up, Tony couldn't bring himself to keep visiting Nicholas and his mom. It reminded him too much of Natalie.

[Tony]

I didn't feel like seeing them. I didn't feel like going to her house because I always went there with Natalie.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But Nicholas mother continued to reach out. Nicholas really misses you, she'd write. Eventually she suggested they all get together on neutral ground, her sister's house.

[Tony]

So we did. We set up a surprise dinner, which was about two months ago, and I went over and they were really happy to see me. But at the same time, I noticed Nicholas's first reaction. He was kind of shocked and I could see that all this stuff went through his eyes. And then he put on this kind of smiley, happy guy thing. I could read it all in his face right away.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And you think that was because Natalie wasn't There.

[Tony]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Tony's afraid that Nicholas won't want a relationship with him that doesn't include Natalie. Afraid that maybe he's not the godparent that Nicholas wants. But he also doesn't want to repeat the same mistakes. So he screws up his courage and goes back over for dinner, hoping he and Nicholas can connect again. But before Tony gets a chance to sit down, the very first words out of Nicholas mouth.

[Nicholas]

So, Tony.

[Tony]

Yes?

[Nicholas]

How's Natalie?

[Tony]

Natalie? She's okay.

[Nicholas]

If you just could get back with her, that would be a relief.

[Tony]

Why would that be a relief, buddy?

[Nicholas]

I want to see her again, and I never get to see her.

[Tony]

Yeah, that's true.

[Nicholas]

I only see you, and that's not enough.

[Tony]

You will see her again. And she says hi. Cause she's in Australia. Actually, she's in New Zealand.

[Nicholas]

You don't want to be in the place that she is, right?

[Tony]

Well, I don't want to be in New Zealand because it's far away from everything that I do. My mother's here. My mother's an old lady. She's 85 years old, and she needs me. She can't live alone, so I can't go anywhere. So it's. Natalie doesn't want to be here.

[Nicholas]

It's over for ya. It's over for ya, old sausage.

[Tony]

It looks like that, but you never know. I'm not in love with anybody else.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

They sit down on the couch, and Tony faces the thing that's hardest for him to talk about, even with adults, let alone a child.

[Tony]

So are you gonna be sad if you don't see her again?

[Nicholas]

A bit.

[Tony]

A bit. Okay.

[Nicholas]

Just kidding. A lot.

[Tony]

Is there anything that you want to ask me about Natalie or anything?

[Nicholas]

Did a part. Did. Did you feel like a part of your heart broke up to pieces?

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Nicholas]

You did?

[Tony]

Yeah. Very much? A lot.

[Nicholas]

Do you miss her a lot?

[Tony]

Yeah, I do.

[Nicholas]

Well, you should have. You should have said this. Come back whenever you come. You could come back whenever you want or just say. Or just say sorry or something.

[Tony]

Yeah, I did.

[Nicholas]

Okay.

[Tony]

I said sorry. And so did she. She had things to be sorry about, too. And then I said, come back for a long time. I said, come back whenever you want. And I think. I think she's decided not to. I think she's decided maybe it's because

[Nicholas]

post Canada takes a long time to get a note.

[Tony]

Really long? No, but I write her on the Internet.

[Nicholas]

Oh, Internet. Oh, that makes more sense. I thought you. Brian from post Canada.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Tony's putting away his own feelings and focusing on Nicholas, which is a very godfatherly thing to do. And Nicholas, for his part, seems to be straining on his emotional tiptoes to try to reach Tony. And together they meet somewhere in the middle.

[Tony]

Do you remember when I, you know, I baptized you, right?

[Nicholas]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And you were crying. You were really upset. I had to pick you up. When I picked you up, you went totally quiet. And everybody was like, you're so quiet. And everybody said, you. You made him calm. And I thought, that's cool. Maybe that's what godfathers are supposed to do. They're supposed to make people calm and be like, everything's okay. Don't worry about it, you know? But let me ask you something.

[Nicholas]

Yeah.

[Tony]

What kind of godfather do you want me to be?

[Nicholas]

I wanted you to be the same thing as you are right now.

[Tony]

Which is what?

[Nicholas]

You're a really good godfather.

[Tony]

I am? Yeah.

[Nicholas]

You're pretty good.

[Tony]

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. That's very nice of you to say.

[Nicholas]

It's not a joke. You're really good.

[Tony]

I'm good.

[Nicholas]

You're a godfather.

[Tony]

Thank you. That's awesome. Cool.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And with that, Tony was a godfather, because when your godchild tells you you're a godfather, you're a godfather. When I talked to Tony a couple weeks later, he'd already seen Nicholas again. They went to visit Tony's mom. He says she liked having a kid around to wait on to serve spinakopita.

[Tony]

She's laughing in her heart.

[Nicholas]

This is the best day that I

[Tony]

ever had, and it's only just begun.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Now that the furniture's returning to its

[Tony]

goodwill home,

[Jonathan Goldstein]

now that the last month's rant is scheming with the damaged deposit,

[Tony]

take this moment to decide

[Jonathan Goldstein]

if we meant it, if we tried.

[Tony]

Recording. Heavyweight update.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Jonathan Goldstein, FaceTime video.

[Tony]

Hey. Hey. Let me just. Let me show you what's happening here, huh? So it's recording on the MacBook mic. You're getting the MacBook mic. You're getting THE. The iPhone, like, six inches from my mouth.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You know what you're doing? You know what Jackie Cohen would say? Huh?

[Khalilah Holt]

You.

[Tony]

What would she say?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

She would be like, look at you. You think you need three microphones?

[Tony]

You think what you have to say is so important?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, because everyone wants to hear what you have to say. Yeah.

[Tony]

Yeah. Oh, Zoe says hi, by the way. Say hi to you?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's so nice.

[Tony]

I told her I'd be talking to you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And. And how is Zoe?

[Tony]

Great. I mean, she's, you know, she's 28 now.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, my.

[Tony]

And and she's been dating a nice Greek boy since then, more or less.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're kidding.

[Tony]

No, I'm not kidding. And he's great. He's awesome. She didn't move far from home. She has like a great job and I. I was sure she would move to Montreal like all her friends did and everybody moves to Montreal, but she never did. And I admire that because she's really building a strong foundation and she's very happy.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's wonderful. I'm so glad to hear that.

[Tony]

And Nicholas is like amazing. I think I've told you. He's a track athlete. Like a star athlete.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Really?

[Tony]

Yeah. He's graduated from high school. He's.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And he's like coaching me now. And he's just turned into a really amazing, like resilient, like deals with all kinds of hardship really maturely. Like the total opposite of me. Like he, like. I don't. I don't know. He says he gets spiritual guidance from me, but I don't know what that would be or if he's just blowing smoke up my ass. You'd have to ask him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's. You guys have a special connection. But that, that's.

[Tony]

We do. We laugh a lot. Like we have a good relationship. We have a really good time.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's so nice. So how are you? I mean, you look well.

[Tony]

Thanks. So do you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, well, you don't have to say that.

[Tony]

No, but you do. I mean, basically I'm okay. I'm three and. Three and a half months into the stay here, which is going to be a year.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wait a second. So why don't you explain what here is?

[Tony]

Right, of course I have to do that. Here is the Clear Sky Meditation and Study Center. It's like a Buddhist based retreat center in the Rocky Mountains of Canada. And it's where I live with 12 other people who are permanent, well, long term residents. And I'm trying it out for a year. I'm living in a kind of pseudo monastic situation. And there's deer everywhere and they just stand like 10ft away and like stare at you before they dart off this coyotes and howling like 30ft from. From the building at night. It's. It's really beautiful. And it's tough. It's tough here. It's. It's tiring. It's. It's not for everybody.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Could you just explain a little about how you found out about this place?

[Tony]

Yeah. I owe this to my former mother in law, Natalie's mom. Actually just a couple of years into my relationship with. With Natalie. I was looking for a place to meditate, and she picked up a flyer from this place she used to go do yoga and said, this guy's supposed to be good. And then when I showed up, I realized, oh, this is traditional, like religious Buddhism. And my first reaction was, I, no, I don't want. I didn't. I came to the wrong place. This is not. This is not what I. I don't think so, basically. But he was a very down to earth teacher and he just talked and made a lot of sense to me and I connected really, really quickly with him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So what, what is the path that you're, that you're on right now? You're thinking of staying there for a year, but that is in service to possibly staying there forever.

[Tony]

Possibly. Anything is possible right now. Like, at this moment in time, anything is possible. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And you're comfortable with that?

[Tony]

My. Well, not really, but yes, also. I mean, I don't know. What choice do I have? Like, I don't want to live in Montreal. When I started taking care of my mom when she got sick.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We should say that in the time since. Since the episode, your mother has passed away.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And that sort of both freed you and, and kind of untethered you from, from the city, from Montreal.

[Tony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my mom, you know, was diagnosed with dementia right before COVID and it was, it was horrifying. The onset was horrifying because you don't know what it means. You don't know what's. What it's going to mean to take care of somebody who's demented. You have the worst. I had the worst kind of ideas in my head, but it turned out to be, yeah, my, my stint as a parent, you know, the closest I'm ever going to get to being a parent is, I think, is taking care of my mom for a few years while she was unable to take care of herself. And it also brought my relationship with her to a very, paradoxically, a very good close, because we got so close and also because there was this cognitive opening where she wouldn't recognize me a lot of the time. And so we were like strangers. So there was a different quality to our interactions. There was a, like a freshness or a kind of openness at times, which was really amazing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's a nice way to see it. Yeah.

[Tony]

Yeah, I, I drew a lot of strength from that. It was just a freedom. And by the end, I mean, it's weird taking care of somebody who's going to die. As opposed to growing up to be, you know, an adult, does kind of go to school and have a whole life. It's, it's, it's weird. It's, there's a strangeness to that. But in a way I, I feel like I growed up. Like, I became, I finally became an adult. But I don't know what I'm going to do in the long term because it's, I'm still adjusting just to being like a middle aged person. And what that means. Like, I'm not even sure. Like, I think I'm starting to realize what that means now.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What does that mean to you?

[Tony]

What does it mean to me? It means the time is running out. Like, really, like, I'm really starting to get a sense of like, you're, you're on the downslope. Like we, Things pick up speed as opposed to, oh God, life is so hard because you're going up, but you're still on the upslope right now. It's like, no, things are getting worse. Things are. My body is, is, is. There's a lot of body issues in the last couple of years. But the bigger picture is like, where do I want to live? Who do I want to be near? What do I want to do? These questions are all floating up in the air because I walked away from any kind of, you know, structure. I don't have a family. I don't have. I keep coming back to that. I don't have. Like, my, my oldest and dearest friends are scattered all over the place. They're not going to live with me. You know, you guys aren't going to be, you know, coming up the street with meatball sandwiches when I'm demented.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Howard might.

[Tony]

Howard might. Or maybe, you know, he'll be demented first. I don't know. I don't know. God forbid. So it's like, and it's not like, oh, I'm setting up a nice little hospice for myself so that I can have nice people to take care of me. Like, I don't, I don't care what happens. Throw me off a cliff, fill me with some yogurt. No, I mean, you call Jackie, you

[Jonathan Goldstein]

want all the regular things. It's just you're taking a rather unconventional route to get to those things.

[Tony]

Yeah, I think it has to do with knowing what you're going to do. Right? So, like, if you're not sure that there's a container for, for you in, in, in life, like whether there's a job or It's a family or, like, a very particular career track, which is very involving, which has steps which you can follow. Like, you're kind of free floating. You're.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're.

[Tony]

You're in free fall. And now it's like kindergarten all over again. Like, okay, what next? What's next? And like, where's my mommy? Like, what the fuck am I doing? What am I doing here? Like, not knowing. Really not knowing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But is that exciting also at all? Yeah, it is.

[Tony]

It's very exciting.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's good.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Tony, I'm so sorry to have to run off. I'm looking at the time. I could talk to you all night, but I'm supposed to take Augie. He's got a basketball game.

[Tony]

Give my love to Augie and Emily and tell them I say hi, and we'll talk soon.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I will. I will, man. Good to see you.

[Tony]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You be well.

[Tony]

Okay, man. Bye for now. Bye.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Bye. Thanks to everyone who helped put the episode together. And we'll be back once again with another exciting update in two weeks. Also, we're starting a free newsletter. I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, finally. Yes, that's right. Not just audio, but now in the form of news and a letter sent directly to your inbox. And who knows, maybe you'll even hear from a producer or two. Kahlilah Holt.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah, you probably will.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We'll let you know when new episodes are coming out, and we'll send out some other fun stuff as well, like word puzzles. I'll be.

[Khalilah Holt]

We're not going to send out word puzzles.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Well, we don't know yet. We might make crossword puzzles, word jumbles. We want to share everything that we can. And you can sign up for [e-mail] heavyweight. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.