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You can now see that for what it is, can't you? No amount of letting them chase things in a different environment is then going to suddenly make them go, you know what I've chased elsewhere. I'm gonna do loose lead walking. Right before we dive in, a warning. The content of this podcast may not be appropriate for some young listeners. This is real life and that means that sometimes it can be a little bit graphic. So listen on at your own per. As a veterinarian, dog behaviorist, best selling author and trainer over the past decade, I've had an obsession with transforming the behavior of dogs, understanding their brains, and creating practical strategies that you can implement easily at home. I know all too well when the dream you imagined when you first got your dog is far from your daily reality. In fact, out of the blue, a few months ago, my little dog, Gorse was bitten by a dog 20 times her size. And suddenly our life of stress free walks, a calm and cuddly household and being teammates was replaced with reactivity, anxiety, and worrying about what's around the next corner. I'm Dr. Tom. This is the Help My Dog podcast. And this is me documenting that journey of transformation, sharing my knowledge and experience with you, and having a few laughs along the way. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Help My Dog podcast. And today we're doing a listener's question question because it seems that this podcast is now listeners questions podcasts because you all like them so much, which is fine. And so today's listener says, I've been told I need to let my border collie chase, as that is what they were bred to do. Should I do that? And I think this really cool question, and I think I could kind of zoom out on it a little bit and we could insert any breed and kind of any breed tendency into that question and the answer would be the same. Okay, so there is a lot out there, There's a lot of people out there who will say that the reason why you're, you're, I don't know, your border collie. We'll sit with border collies for the minute. The reason why your border collie is, I don't know, pulling on lead and, and wanting to chase everything in sight and potentially reacting to other dogs and, and people is because you need to give them an outlet and let them chase. Right? And you need to let them do that. And if you let them do that, then they'll suddenly stop doing these other things. And the reality is far from that. To be frank, the way that we need to approach this and look at this. And this is why the way that I'm about to answer this question relates to all breeds and all, all dogs really is your dog will gravitate towards behaviors that they, that play into their strongest skills, right? So they will do things, they will make choices based on their strongest skills. And so if we think about the, the, the chasey border collie, right, that border collie is very, very skilled at not disengaging. Very, very, very skilled at engaging with movement. And so when presented with something moving, guess what they do, they apply that skill of being really, really good at not disengaging from that movement and they chase. Right. And so when we frame it like that, the answer's really obvious, isn't it, that if they're really, really good at not disengaging and we get them to practice even more not disengaging by, by letting them chase things and chase a tennis ball or Frisbee or whatever else, then guess what? They're going to get really, really, really, really, really good at not disengaging and they're going to apply that to the rest of their life. Yeah. So the interesting thing is, is nearly always when your dog wants to do something in a very extreme way, nearly always, that is growing them in a direction that is going to have negative implications across the rest of their behavior. And so the reality is when someone says that your border collie pulling on lead and running off and chasing things is because you've not given them an outlet elsewhere to chase, you can now see that for what it is, can't you? No amount of letting them chase things in a, in a different environment is then going to suddenly make them go, you know what I've chased elsewhere, I'm going to do loose lead walking, right? It's madness. And so you're always straight talking. And so instead what we need to think about is, well, all those behaviors that your dog does that that person recommended that in relation to, I'd be thinking, well, what skills does my dog need to not do those behaviors, right? So if we take pulling on lead, running off and chasing things, well, all three of those behaviours have in common, that your dog needs a better ability to disengage from distractions and movement and things going on in the environment. And so actually that is where we should be getting our dog to spend their time, right? That is what we should be investing in. Yeah. Equally, if I think about a different, if I think about a different, a different breed and behavior, if I think About I was going to go with miniature dachshund, but then I always do miniature dachshund. So maybe I won't do. Maybe I won't do miniature. Let's do terriers. Let's do terriers. Because we can kind of chuck Minnie dachshunds in there. Right. Very, very similar history. And so, terriers, Terriers, what are the common outlets that people would describe as them wanting to do, Wanting to hunt things, wanting to grab at things and shake them until they are no longer moving? Right. And again, all of those, you know, those two things alone. Digging. Yeah. Would be another one. Those three things alone are all examples of where a dog is practicing not disengaging from something. Yeah. They're practicing not disengaging from the thing in their mouth and they're just shaking it and shaking it and shaking it. Right. They're practicing not disengaging from whatever thing it is that they are hunting out. Right. They're practicing the not disengaging from digging and they're digging and digging and digging and digging. Yeah. And the thing is, then they apply that very well practiced not disengaging to barking at and lunging at other dogs. Right. Or pulling on the end of the lead. So, you know that picture of terriers that we've all seen where they're pulling on the end of the lead and it's like their eyes are bulging out of their head and their tongue's like hanging out their mouth? Yeah. They've honed that skill over lots of practice in different scenarios. No amount of giving them outlets to practise that skill that we don't want right anymore is going to make those behaviour struggles better. Instead we need to flip this and say, well, what skills do we want? Yeah. What activities, what games, what training would grow those skills that we do want? And when we then grow the skills that we do want and tip the balance the other way from not disengaging to disengaging, then we start to see that they start to make different choices in the situations that depend on that. Okay. So the question was, I've been told I need to let my border collie chase, as that is what they were bred to do. We've expanded it to. You could insert any breed and any breed type behavior in there and the answer would be that is not going to improve their behavior overall. And I think we're all clear on it now. When we frame it in that way, it seems so obvious, but I get, get that it, it kind of like it kind of feels nice, doesn't it, to think, oh, that's why, you know, he's this breed and he's been bred to do this thing and therefore he needs the opportunity just to, you know, just to. To show himself for who he is. Right. The reality is they've been bred to do that behavior. Not quite. Right. They've been bred to have those skills naturally, and those natural skills might not be appropriate for the environment that they find themselves in. And we might have to teach and grow new skills in them so that they can thrive as a border collie in New York City, so that they can thrive as a terrier in Leeds city centre. Right. And that is the key. Yeah. These behaviors, yeah, to some extent there's argument and evidence that certain behavior behaviors have been selected for, which is a whole, whole other story. But the reality is, what is driving those behaviours are the skills that have been selected for, for many, many, many generations. Right. Just as in, you know, in humans, we can all think about, you know, skills that we might have that we think, oh, you know, a parent or a grandparent was really good at that skill. Imagine if dogs were bred. All the dogs that were really rubbish at disengaging from movement were all bred together and repeated through many generations. Matching dogs that are really rubbish at disengaging from movement repeatedly. Yeah. The 10th generation would be really, really, really good at not disengaging from movement. Right. It's called a border collie. Yeah. And they, you know, they have all their benefits in different situations, but we do have to teach them the skill of disengagement for the world that they find themselves in. So I'm aware that I went on a bit of a rant, but I'm also aware that I've now answered your question and hopefully you can go forth and, you know, make the choice that will ultimately change your dog's behavior and get you to live in the life that you dream with your dog. If you're thinking, you know what, I'm clear on this, and now I need to go and grow these skills. The best place to grow these skills, guys, is in the Help My Dog Hub, which is our membership area, where there are video lessons on, you know, there are countless disengagement games. Play this game to grow disengagement. This one, this one, this one I show you with dogs so that you can then copy at home. And we show you in real life situations how we apply it in real life, which ultimately I think is often the missing piece of the puzzle when it comes to training and behavior help. So I would definitely recommend getting involved in that. You can be a member for a month. You can be a member for three months, six months, basically. As soon as you're achieving your dream, we're not going to keep you there. There is no, like, contract. There is no, like, minimum time. Just let us know when you want to cancel. And it is like, a fraction of a fraction of the price of a Starbucks every day. Okay? So it has everything that you need and ultimately is going to get you to where you want to go. So with that, guys, that was this episode of the Help My Dog podcast, and we will see you next week.