Disrupting the Taxi Industry with Bhairavi Desai

Summary

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Here We Go Again with Kal Penn

Episode: "Disrupting the Taxi Industry with Bhairavi Desai"

Date: April 28, 2026
Guest: Bhairavi Desai, Executive Director, New York Taxi Workers Alliance

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Episode Overview

Kal Penn and guest host (possibly Richard) sit down with Bhairavi Desai to trace the tumultuous decade in New York City's taxi industry, focusing on the massive disruption caused by rideshare apps like Uber and Lyft, the devastating consequences for drivers—including a suicide crisis—and the fierce activism that led to historic victories for taxi and rideshare drivers alike. Bhairavi details how the New York Taxi Workers Alliance (NYTWA) fought for, and ultimately secured, protections for drivers from industry upheavals, crushing debt, and wage theft, while offering insight into the ongoing resistance to further disruptions, such as autonomous vehicles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Arrival of Uber and Industry Upheaval

• Setting the Stage (00:17–07:06):
  • 2011: Uber arrives in NYC, initially perceived as minor competition; they even recruit yellow cab drivers.
  • Uber’s early model in NYC seems implausible to veterans: “It’s in a private motorist, in their personal car, there’s no street hailing, you got to use your phone... Oh, that’s never going to work in New York City.” — Bhairavi Desai (05:41)
  • Around this time, NYTWA wins a milestone: a regulated wage increase for taxi drivers.
  • 2014: Uber’s expansion explodes, adding tens of thousands of vehicles and pulling drivers from yellow cabs with hefty bonuses and false promises.
  • Media coverage is overwhelmingly positive for Uber; NYTWA’s perspective is “erased” due to Uber’s massive ad buys (10:10).
  • Industry protection efforts, such as caps on ride-hail vehicles, are defeated by Uber’s lobbying power and strategic political alliances.

2. The Taxi Industry Structure and Driver Realities

• Medallion System Explained (11:41–16:24):
  • NYC medallions (legal permits) gave drivers exclusive street hail rights; at their peak, medallions cost up to $1.2 million.
  • Most drivers lease either the medallion or the vehicle, often starting each workday deep in the red, facing high expenses and taxes before seeing any profit.
  • Many medallion holders are immigrants who mortgage everything for a shot at middle-class stability.
  • “The city had recruited a predominantly immigrant workforce to purchase this asset, but the vast majority of drivers were still lease drivers.” — Bhairavi Desai (13:04)

3. Uber’s Corporate Power and Political Influence

• Media Manipulation and Political Corruption (10:10–18:13):
  • Uber’s advertising budgets skew news coverage and influence legislative outcomes.
  • Political “revolving door”: City officials instrumental in raising driver wages immediately go to work for Uber/Lyft, then undermine the industry.
  • The fight against corporate wealth and political alignment felt “like a war zone in 2015” for taxi drivers. (18:13)

4. Human Toll: Suicide Crisis Among Drivers

• Mental Health and Despair (21:49–26:07):
  • After losing their livelihoods and seeing mounting debt, drivers begin to take their own lives.
  • Bhairavi and NYTWA provide direct crisis intervention for drivers: “I was getting phone calls from drivers who were like my family... I was connecting people to ERs and we were just checking up on everybody.” (22:34)
  • In 2017–18, nine known suicides take place. The union responds with memorials and a public call to action: “Do not despair. Organize. We have your back.”
  • This tragedy propels new waves of activism, eventually inspiring city officials to pursue stricter ride-hail caps.

5. Victories for Drivers: Caps and Debt Relief

• Winning the First Industry Cap (26:39–29:03):
  • Activism and visible despair move city officials to pass the first cap on ride-hail vehicles—a global first against Uber.
• 2021 Debt Relief (29:03–37:18):
  • Average medallion debt was ~$600,000; successful campaign with 46-day protest (last 15 days as hunger strike) forces city and lenders to drop individual debts to a max of $170,000.
  • Desai credits grassroots organization, citing numerous protests and mutual support: “We were not gonna leave those streets until we won.” (30:56)
  • The decision to escalate to a hunger strike was deliberate and collective: “I said to the members, I said okay, well this is it, you know, this is the final stage. So we’re going to go out to City hall, we’re going to do a 24/7 camp and then...have a hunger strike.” (32:03)
  • Moment of victory: “When I text you avocado, that means we got a deal... just walking through the gates of City hall and seeing everybody and...people are just crying and dancing and eating avocados.” (34:34–37:18)

6. Wage Theft Recovery and Expanding the Alliance

• Wage Theft Victory (40:53–44:39):
  • In 2023, NYTWA and the Attorney General announce a $320 million settlement with Uber/Lyft for systematic wage theft (improper tax/surcharge deductions).
  • Desai: “Wage theft victories are bittersweet because... it’s like you can’t turn back the clock on a hungry belly.” (44:13)
  • The funds—over 90% of which reach the affected drivers—represent the largest wage theft recovery in NY state history.

7. Facing Future Disruptions: Driverless Cars and Economic Justice

• Next Threats and New Hope (45:06–50:33):
  • Desai views the coming threat of driverless vehicles (e.g. Waymo) as the next challenge but believes the union—and the political world—are now better prepared.
  • “There is a sensitivity in the political class that remembers the suicides and knows that we as a union are an unrelenting force.” (45:23)
  • Desai is also hopeful about recent structural changes, including a new mayor (Zoran Mamdani) openly supportive of working-class needs: “I am really excited...to have a mayor, like, who loves my class, you know, who loves my class as much as he hates war.” (48:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Uber’s Disruption:
  “Within a short period of time, Uber had recruited so many vehicles and so everybody was just drowning on the streets... and a lot of promises. And so many of our members started to work for Uber.” — Bhairavi Desai (07:19)

• On Media and Politics:
  “Every story was about how great Uber was going to be. Even if I talked to a reporter for an hour, I could not get one sentence in to a story.” — Bhairavi Desai (09:03)

• On Driver Realities:
  “You start your day at a negative...the first four or five hours of your shift are just paying off your lease.” — Bhairavi Desai (15:29)

• On Suicide Crisis:
  “We were just disappeared overnight. And because we lost that fight for a temporary cap in 2015, two years later, the driver's suicide started." — Bhairavi Desai (21:49)

• On Organizing:
  “We just wanted to get the message out to the drivers that we loved each other and we were going to lift each other up. Do not despair. Organize. We have your back.” — Bhairavi Desai (24:10)

• On Politicians Responding:
  “During that six month stretch, they were doing the work while we were doing our work on the streets...” — Bhairavi Desai (26:39)

• The Moment of Victory:
  “When I text you avocado, that means we got a deal...just walking through the gates of City Hall and seeing everybody...people are just crying and dancing and eating avocados.” — Bhairavi Desai (36:19)

• On Driverless Cars:
  “The unionist in me is like, yeah, like, come on, Waymo, like, let’s have it out. You underestimate us at your own peril. Like, you’re not the first beast we gotta slay here.” — Bhairavi Desai (45:23)

• On the New Political Era:
  “I am really excited...to have a mayor, like, who loves my class, you know, who loves my class as much as he hates war.” — Bhairavi Desai (48:13)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:17–07:06 | Uber arrives; 2011–2014 context; rigged media landscape
• 11:41–16:24 | Taxi medallion system explained; driver life and finances
• 18:13–21:49 | Corporate lobbying, lost battles, and the sense of “war zone”
• 21:49–26:07 | Suicide crisis, organizing for survival
• 26:39–29:03 | The 2018 victory: first successful cap on ride-hail vehicles
• 29:03–37:18 | Debt crisis, mass protests, and hunger strike victory (2021)
• 40:53–44:39 | Wage theft settlement, expanding union to rideshare drivers (2023)
• 45:06–50:33 | Past disruptions, preparing for driverless cars, hope for the future

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Conclusion

Through Bhairavi Desai's first-hand account, this episode reveals the high-stakes battle for the soul and survival of New York's taxi industry. Her leadership, deep community ties, and relentless organizing have enabled victories against overwhelming odds—restoring rights, hope, and dignity to thousands of drivers, even as new disruptions loom on the horizon. The episode is a powerful case study in grassroots justice, collective action, and the ongoing struggle for economic fairness in the gig era.

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Transcript

[Cal Penn]

Hey, Cal here. Before we begin, just want to let

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

you know this episode contains references to suicide. All right, so jump back to 2011. Uber arrived to New York City. New York City is the taxi capital of America.

[Cal Penn]

And a lot of us I know sort of thought, oh, this Uber thing, does this mean taxi drivers are screwed? And in many ways, they were. So 13,000 yellow cab drivers had dominated the streets, right? And they would eventually compete with 80,000 rideshare cars. And those rideshare drivers didn't have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on medallion fees. They were undercutting the industry's base fees itself.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

And they were taking the clients from yellow cab drivers. The New York City taxi industry is

[Cal Penn]

constantly being upended, but it has always found a way to fight back.

[Bedavita Sai]

I had said to the members, I said, okay, well, this is it. This is the final stage. So we're going to go out to City hall, we're going to do a 24.7camp, and then when necessary, we're going to have a hunger strike.

[Cal Penn]

At the center of each one of their flights is the co founder, president

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

and executive director of the New York Taxi Workers Alliance, Peravi Desai.

[Cal Penn]

For more than two decades, she's fought alongside 21,000 drivers. And here's what she's done. Raising the base income, creating a cap on the number of ride sharing vehicles permitted to drive in New York City, period. And relieving drivers of hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt related to loans

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

and the medallion, which I mentioned earlier. And we'll get into that.

[Cal Penn]

She continues to challenge anything that threatens

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

the livelihood of the people she represents,

[Cal Penn]

including the introduction of driverless vehicles. Today I'm speaking with Bervi about the ongoing disruption of the taxi industry in

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

New York and why it keeps happening.

[Bedavita Sai]

Here we go again, again, again.

[Cal Penn]

Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and this is Here We Go Again, a show that takes today's trends and headlines and asks, why does history keep repeating itself?

[Bedavita Sai]

Here we Go. This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Cal Penn]

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[Bedavita Sai]

Okay, great. Now I hear you.

[Cal Penn]

Good to see you.

[Bedavita Sai]

Nice to see you. I'm Bedavita Sai. I'm the Executive Director of the New York Taxi Workers Alliance.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

I'd love to start with the 2011 rideshare apps. Can you ground me in that moment, where were you, where was the organization and what was going through your, your team discussions when there was talk about rideshare apps coming?

[Bedavita Sai]

2011 was actually a very non assuming time period. We really didn't know what was about to hit us. And in those days, Uber was actually recruiting yellow cab drivers to, to work in the city. At the time, you know, they were beginning to be big in California and I remember like the, the press clips and it was like, why? Like they don't even have professional drivers. It's in a private motorist, in their personal car, there's no street hailing, you got to use your phone. And it was a lot of discussion like, oh, that's never going to work in New York City.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Bedavita Sai]

And they were specifically recruiting yellow cab drivers. At that time, we were in the middle of a huge fight to raise the living standards for drivers. And so we had won a livable wage campaign and we had gotten regulation that 6 cents from every fare would go toward a health and benefit fund for the drivers. And so we won that. In 2012, the entire raise went toward driver income, except for the 6 cents which went toward driver benefits. So we thought we were about to actually reach the high point of our movement.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Yeah.

[Bedavita Sai]

And then three years later, 2014 is when all the disruption really began and we couldn't have imagined that nightmare.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

What was the disruption in 2014?

[Bedavita Sai]

Well, I mean, within a short period of time, Uber had recruited so many vehicles and so everybody was just drowning on the streets. And many yellow cab drivers that had been leasing from a garage, you know, started to go and work for Uber. And part of the, the logic was Uber was offering these bonuses, so like $6,000 guaranteed if you don't make it from your trips, like we'll make it up for you. And then signing bonuses on top of that and a lot of promises. And so many of our members started to work for uber. But by 2015, there was so much oversaturation, we started to hold protests calling for a temporary one year vehicle cap. So a cap on the number of new Uber and Lyft vehicles. So we lost the fight on the cap because on one weekend alone, Uber spent $10 million in attack ads against de Blasio. At the time, de Blasio was at the Vatican, mean the Pope apparently not reciting the correct prayers, you know, and, and so we got sold out. And the thing is, during that fight, Cal, I mean, I've been organizing drivers since 1996. By 1998, we formed the Taxi Workers Alliance. I Had a very good relationship with most of the media, knew all the reporters, certainly the transit reporters. I could not get into any one story. Every story was about how great Uber was going to be. Even if I talked to a reporter for an hour, I could not get one sentence in to a story. The editors would kill it. And so after we lost this fight, I talked to one of the reporters. I remember standing in my room just crying and screaming and saying, how did you just forget us? Like, we are human beings that are going to be affected by this. Like, why don't we matter to you? And I begged reporters, I said, go and file a freedom of information request. And they did do that. And foil request came back. And it showed while that city council hearing was going on that we thought we were winning. Uber's lobbyists saw the news that de Blasio down the hall was having the fight with Cuomo. So they started emailing Cuomo's people saying, yeah, this bill guy is a problem for us too. And, you know, they all kind of work together, and that's how our bill got killed.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

How did, how did they end up getting through to so many journalists to not cover your point of view or the driver's points of view?

[Bedavita Sai]

They were buying so much ad space. And one of the ways I learned that is because all of a sudden, all of these institutions that know we are not for profit, you know, we're, you know, small budget organization, grassroots. I started getting emails. Would you be interested in advertising? And then I started getting calls. Now Uber's advertising. Would you like to advertise?

[Cal Penn]

So it sounds like Uber was spending

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

a lot of money advertising on the platforms, on the papers themselves, who then were skewing their coverage in favor of their advertiser.

[Bedavita Sai]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

I want to make sure I don't sort of skip over this. You'd mentioned when, when we first started talking, you know, the. When Uber came in, the things that they were doing in terms of bonuses and letting people know that it would be easier to work on Uber than it would by leasing or whatever the arrangements were the cab drivers had with the people who actually own those cars. I don't think a lot of people know that cab drivers don't outright necessarily own not just their cars, but their medallions. And can you walk us through just very quickly, what the life of a taxi driver was like around this time, just so that we have the context of 2011, 2013 onwards?

[Bedavita Sai]

Yeah, I mean, there were up to. There's like 13,500 plus medallions that have been issued by the city of New York. And the medallion, the number you see on top of the cab, it's literally, it's a legal permit that allows you to operate a vehicle that's been painted yellow and meets the specifications to pick up street hails. And you have this exclusive right. About 3,000 of those medallions were owned and operated by individual drivers. We call them owner drivers. And so, of course, they also owned their vehicle. And the medallion at the time was valued, I think, around those days, close to 800,000 hit a million. 1.2 million was the peak at some point. It may have been around that time as well.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Meaning to buy it from the city, it costs 800 to a million.

[Bedavita Sai]

So the city would only city has auctions and order for the city of New York to auction off medallions, they have to get permission from the state of New York because it's a budget item. And so time to time, the city historically has auctioned off new medallions. And after 9 11, there are a lot of stories in the media that the one thing you can bank on, the one asset you can bank on is the medallion. That it was more bullish than New York real estate.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Okay?

[Bedavita Sai]

And the city, when they would auction them, would say to the drivers, you know, this is like, more secure bet than the stock market. And so the city had recruited a predominantly immigrant workforce to purchase this asset, but the vast majority of drivers were still lease drivers. And there are two types of lease drivers. A garage lease driver who can go in for the week or for the day, either the day shift or the night shift. And back then, we had what we call double shifting. And so 5am to 5pm day shift or 5pm to 5am night shift. That way each driver got to have one rush hour, and there was a cap on how much the garages could charge you for the shift or for the week. We had won all those protections through the years. Or you could be a lease driver who leases the medallion, but would have the vehicle financed through an industry broker.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

So I just want to make sure I understand this. So either drivers would outright, and this sounds like a small minority of drivers, but outright buy, like an $800,000 medallion, I assume, either on their own or in a collective with other drivers.

[Bedavita Sai]

Sometimes it'd be family members. You know, you get all your savings. I mean, people would sell properties back home and literally go to every extended family member to put, you know, savings together. And then you go to a broker we call medallion broker, who either would find you the seller or if it was during the city auction time period, then the city would set what's called the opening bid. And very famously, around like 2014, the de Blasio administration set the opening bid at like $850,000.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Wow.

[Bedavita Sai]

And so you go to a broker who would say, no, no, no, I know this guy is going to bid 900,000. You got to go at least 901. It's literally an auction.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Okay. And then the, the other two. One is the garage thing that you mentioned. So the drivers themselves would have to pay a certain fee for that 12 hour shift. And then would they keep anything that they earned above that?

[Bedavita Sai]

Right. So you start your day at a negative. And so for, you know, for typical driver shift, which is still this case today, if you're a daily driver, you'd assume like the first four or five hours of your shift are, are just paying off your lease. And you're. You also are paying for gasoline. Right. You have a lot of shift expenses. Right. Like parking, sometimes tolls that are not paid for by the passenger. If you're driving empty, you know, most of this work is in Manhattan and primarily, you know, street hail work and primarily the central business district. And if you have a long fare into the Bronx, for example, where you're coming back empty, you're deadheading back, and you may end up having to pay a toll to deadhead back. All that comes out of the driver's earnings. And then on each fare, there are a number of taxes.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Okay, So I understand that. And the bill that you mentioned and sort of the money that Uber was spending to have that defeated was that before you won an income raise for taxi drivers. That was.

[Cal Penn]

Something happened in 2012, right?

[Bedavita Sai]

Yes. 2012 is when we won this race and we won a health and benefit fund, and we thought we had reached the goalpost of our movement. What we did not know is that the same officials that we were negotiating with the following year left the administration, the Bloomberg administration, de Blasio is coming in. They went to work for Uber and Lyft and the very next day, like the next day, and really advised Uber on how to monopolize in this industry. These were our regulators. They'd voted on a raise, knowing the drivers were earning below the poverty level. And then they sold us out in a heartbeat. I mean, we came out swinging, right? We weren't feeling sorry for ourselves. We were disgusted by the political corruption and we came out swinging. But it was impossible to fight back against that level of corporate wealth. I mean, I don't say this lightly, and I hate to use this as like a third World nationalist. I hate to use this term, but it felt like a war zone in 2015 when we were first fighting for that cap. It felt like a war zone.

[Cal Penn]

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[Bedavita Sai]

It was overwhelming. We had no friends left. Nobody wanted to talk to us, nobody wanted to support us. You know, we were at such a loss. We were asking for something so reasonable that would not have killed their business. And we were just disappeared overnight. And because we lost that fight for a temporary cap in 2015, two years later, the driver's suicide started.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Okay, can you walk me through what a what what that was like when driver suicide started, but then also how you ultimately came back swinging fighting against the corporate money.

[Bedavita Sai]

By 2016 and 17, all of us on staff were starting to get phone calls. Like I at three, four in the morning, I was getting phone calls from drivers who were like my family, right? Like these are the folks that raised me. I started when I was 23 and I love them so much. And people I knew for so long who were just like, I'm driving around, I don't want to go home. I can't face my wife and my children. And I was, you know, connecting people to ERs and we were just checking up on everybody. And I remember at a public hearing In April of 2017, TLC, Taxi Limousine Commission, public hearing on driver incomes, and primarily looking at Uber and Lyft drivers. And I testified. At the very end of the hearing, I testified and I said, I'm really worried. I'm getting phone calls from drivers who are feeling suicidal. And I've not experienced this even with all the exploitation that I'd seen. And I'd seen so much through the years. Right. You know, drivers who were, you know, assaulted. I don't know how many times I've been to ers and just bed sites and, you know, and the garage still calling and saying, well, where's my lease money? Or charging a late fee because you didn't return the car on time. And including after 9 11, one of our members who a passenger the backseat, asked him, are you Muslim? During Ramadan, and then, you know, slashed his neck. But I've never had drivers just tell me I'm suicidal. And by November of that year, 2017, I gotten a phone call from a community radio station host who said, two of my listeners, I just don't hear from them anymore. And it turned out that they each took their life. And then on February 5, 2018, Douglas Shifter, who was a veteran black car driver, parked his black car outside the gates of City hall and he took his own life. And at that point, we went out there and made like a makeshift memorial. And then we had to go public. We had a press conference, like a Vigil. So from November 2017 to around November 2018, there were nine drivers, nine of our brothers, who succumbed to their despair. And from February on until the summer, for six months, we never left the street. We were on the streets, and our posters would say, do not despair. Organize. We have your back. We just wanted to get the message out to the drivers that we loved each other and we were going to lift each other up. Of course, we would talk about what the policy solutions were. And it was a real grassroots moment, because while we were doing that, the city council legislators had the leadership and the vision to fight for that cap again. And by August, we were able to win the cap. And it was the first definitive victory against Uber globally.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

And can you talk about how that jump felt? Because it's. I mean, I'm getting chills hearing you talk about the mental health component of this. That seems to have happened quite quickly and in a relatively short amount of time. Time to go from that to a victory, especially at a time where politicians weren't necessarily reaching out to you about those solutions. How did that turnaround happen? And how did you get the victory.

[Bedavita Sai]

Well, what was incredible to see is that, you know, for the prior years, nobody was reaching out because they were avoiding us. During that six month stretch, they were doing the work while we were doing our work on the streets and our organizing, they were doing the work to put the bills together and then came forward and was like, look, we, like, we got you, we hear you, we understand. I mean, during those months, there was a time when we were on the steps of City hall and we had four makeshift coffins in front of us because by that, there were four suicides by then. And the family members of some of the drivers were with us. And at the end of that action, everyone was talking about, oh, so Albany's talking about adding a new surcharge on the meter to tax the fares. That's going to go back to supporting mass transit, you know, take, which we see as directly taking income away from the drivers. And our estimate is it would have taken $10,000 for that year away from the drivers on the same day that we are on those steps mourning such a tragic loss. Right. They're not soldiers in a battlefield. You know, this is not, you know, this is not a country under attack, you know, by US Weaponry. And here we were, and casualties of an economic war that we had lost up to them. And our governor at the time, Andrew Cuomo announces that they're going to add an additional tax the same day. And so I think that the folks at the city level, the elected officials at the city level who also really resented the money that Uber had swung around and they saw us fighting back. And I always say to our members, like, when workers lead, the world follows, and when workers win, the world changes. And the drivers led. They showed in that despair. They kept showing up.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Among the victories that I, that I was really moved. By 2021, there was relief for cab drivers in the amount of hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt that, that they were in after purchasing a taxi medallion, which we just talked about, the numbers that I have, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're obviously the expert, the numbers that I have were at that time, the average medallion debt was around $600,000. And what you all won was the city promising to drop it to a max of 170, 170,000. So that's the difference of a driver paying three grand a month versus paying $1,100 a month.

[Cal Penn]

I remember this so vividly because I

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

saw you at this hunger strike protest outside of City hall because our mutual friend Zoran had texted Me and said, hey, brother, I'm. I'm going on a hunger strike with the taxi workers. Can you stop by for an evening? And I'd been following this on social media. I remember texting. There was somebody in the. Then Mayor de Blasio's office. It was de Blasio, right at the time. Yeah, in de Blasio's office. And I said, hey, I'm going down to meet these folks and spend some time. Any chance you want to send somebody from the mayor's office? And the text I got back was, we're aware that they're there. Nothing's going to be done about this. And no, we're not sending somebody. It's like, okay, great, thanks a lot.

[Cal Penn]

But then went out and saw. You saw Zahra, I was very moved

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

because of the men and women who were there literally on a hunger strike. And because of the text I got back from the mayor's office, I just sort of thought, well, I am obviously honored to be here and just spend a couple hours. But when I read that this was victorious, I was thrilled, obviously. Can you walk me through what this? It was a 46 day protest and a pretty high profile hunger strike, right?

[Bedavita Sai]

Yeah. Yep. 45 days. And then the last 15 days were the hunger strike. It was the culmination of a multi year campaign. Prior to occupying City hall, we were, you know, shutting down bridges. There were days where we would shut down the Brooklyn Bridge and then shut down the 59th Street Bridge. There were days where we would shut down Midtown, like 6th Avenue outside one lender's office. And then we would drive to Connecticut, you know, to protest another one. There was one day where we went from, like City hall to midtown to New Jersey to Long Island. And these guys were incredible. I mean, the drivers were incredible. And every Friday, we used to meet on Zoom and during. Through Covid, we organized ourselves on WhatsApp groups. And we were a real family, and we were not, you know, we were not gonna leave those streets until we won.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Where did the idea for the hunger strike come from?

[Bedavita Sai]

I knew it was gonna be the last escalation point for the campaign. And so what had happened was prior to when we first started to occupy City hall, the de Blasio administration had announced their version of a solution which was percentage based. So depending on the amount of debt on your loan, you know, let's say if like 25% would be written down. Well, okay. I mean, you know, if you owe like $600,000, that's actually not very much of A reduction, it's not, still not a livable amount, you know, it's still going to be generational death for you. And so we immediately rejected it and we called it out, we said to the media, this is not a solution. And the day that he announced it, we did an immediate protest outside Gracie Mansion. Right, the mayor's home. And we did like a march. And so his neighbors were really upset about it and, and then we shifted over to City Hall. What I saw was that we were nearing the point where the election was going to happen. We were not going to get another shot at the budget. So I said to the members, I said okay, well this is it, you know, this is the final stage. So we're going to go out to City hall, we're going to do a 247 camp and then when necessary we're going to have a hunger strike. And you know, took vote and you know, I proposed it, we had long conversations and we all agreed and you know, this is hundreds of members in our meetings and that's how it really started. And we like worked with a voluntary organization of doctors and like one of, one of my fondest memories of Zoran will always be standing on that line with him. Like for all the hunger strikers to be, to be checked on by the doctor and the, the amazing thing, we have no lobbyist, we don't have a political director. This was the drivers. Yeah, this was the organizing of the drivers. Really raising the consciousness of the political class to take responsibility and show leadership.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

When do you remember where you were when the news broke that this was a victory? And what was your reaction?

[Bedavita Sai]

First, while the camp, and even before the camp was going on, we'd been in negotiations with the largest lender called Marble Gate. And credit to Marble Gate, they were at the table with us and they were willing to negotiate a solution with us. And so by the time City hall came to the table as well, I said okay, you know, we, we, we're bringing the lender in. It's going to be a three party negotiation here. And like two or three nights before we reached the deal, I had organized a meeting like late night, 10 o' clock or something of members to say okay, emergency meeting. And I mean the street was packed. We're still, we're still in our camp out, we're still on a hunger strike. We're outside on the streets and said okay, there's a, there's a, that's nearing and you know, I needed their permission. Yeah. And so the day of the deal, you know, I remember sitting and sitting at that table and I was very tired. It was my 15th day of the hunger strike and. And I was so worried. I mean, Richard, my. Our brother Richard Chow, whom, you know, our mayor is close to, I call Richard the moral leader of our movement. And Richard's brother Kenny was among the nine drivers we had lost. And Richard was on his 15th day of his hunger strike. And one of my colleagues was reminding me how one of the images of our camp that I think will always stay with all of us is on all the cabs that would be parked and on the top of the cabs, the number of pill bottles, while these drivers with different ailments, right, including Richard, who at that point was in a wheelchair but refused to stop his hunger strike. And we had a campaign committee on WhatsApp. And I said to them, okay, I said, when I, When I text you avocado, that means we got a deal. Oh, wow. And so it was, it was incredible. And like just walking through the gates of city hall and seeing everybody and you know, and you know, Zoran was holding down the public, you know, kind of the public facing campaign while I've been inside and seeing all the drivers and people are just crying and dancing and eating avocados.

[Cal Penn]

If you're listening to Here We Go Again, chances are you enjoy smart conversations, great stories, and maybe discovering something new along the way. The way that's exactly what we're doing. On my other podcast, Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Each episode I'm diving into some of the most exciting new audiobooks on Audible. Everything from big sci fi adventures and unforgettable fiction to romcoms, thrillers and laugh out loud comedy. And I'm joined by great guests to help unpack why these stories are such great listens. Because there's just something different about listening to a story. When it's really good, it pulls you in, you start seeing it in your head, and when it's over, you immediately want to talk about it with someone. That's what Irsay is all about. Listen to Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

There was one other victory I wanted to ask you about because it kind of goes back to the earlier question about rideshare versus sort of yellow cabs. There was another sort of disruption and win in 2023 around wage theft recovery. Can you quickly walk us through what that is and also talk a little bit about the point at which your organization decided to also represent rideshare drivers?

[Bedavita Sai]

Yeah, well, to get to that question first, I mean, so like, by 2015, when we were out there protesting, calling for the one year vehicle cap, I was just surrounded by members who were working for Uber and Lyft. And by the way, when we lost that fight, it was those members who came in and said, don't give up. Our union is on the right side. Don't stop this fight. Also, during that time, members started to talk about the fact that they saw that on these Uber trips where the passengers were supposed to be assessed a sales tax and a surcharge to pay for workers compensation for the drivers that Uber was charging the drivers. And, you know, so is Lyft now, in the contracts between the drivers and both Uber and Lyft, there's essentially binding arbitration, right? So meaning that in the contract, arbitration is written in, as you know, as the venue for any grievance. And in order for a driver to not remain under that arbitration, they have to email Uber when they sign, or Lyft when they sign a new contract to say, accept all the terms, accept arbitration. And the vast majority of drivers had not done that. And so when we realized that this was wage theft, we went to the Attorney General's office at the time, Schneiderman, and we also went back to our governor, Mr. Cuomo, at the time. Nothing happened. They passed on it. And everybody knew we were limited of what we could do in the courts because of the binding arbitration. But at the end of 2015, the Federal Court in California opened up a small window. And so we were able to get some of our members to opt out of it. And so in 2016, we filed a lawsuit. Meanwhile, we kept engaging the Attorney General's office and the Labor Bureau. This is from 2015. Right. And then in 2023 is when the Attorney General, Letitia James, and the leadership of the Labor Bureau announced that, you know, they had reached a settlement with Uber and Lyft. And because we pretty much established the law on the actual wage theft, the reason it took so long is because the drivers could not access the courts because of the binding arbitration. Except, you know, the Attorney General is, of course, not bound to that. And so it took over eight years. We were able to reach $320 million settlement of recovery with Uber and Lyft, the biggest wage theft recovery in the history of New York State, which is bittersweet. Wage theft victories are bittersweet because, you know, it's obviously the sweetness of the victory that you get to recover and, and undo an injustice, but it's like you can't, you can't turn back the clock on a hungry belly.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. Do the drivers access that money or is it like directly or does it go to a fund?

[Bedavita Sai]

Yes. No, that money went to the drivers.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Oh, great.

[Bedavita Sai]

Every penny. And with Uber, they were able to recover about 110% of what was owed. With Lyft, there are more, you know, some complexities, there's a little bit less, but. And then we worked with the AG's office, and up to now, about 90% of that money has been claimed by the drivers, which is the highest rate. Also recovery. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Were Uber and Lyft or were the rideshare platforms the first major disruption that you all had to deal with in the work that you do? And when you look to the future for things like driverless cars, what do you, what, what are your plans for hopefully making sure that doesn't happen?

[Bedavita Sai]

Well, I would say, I would say historically, maybe the first disruption for drivers was the onset of the leasing system, where they went from being commission employees, where you split the meter. And so if you had a bad day, the boss had a bad day and the companies paid for gasoline and there was no lease to. Then when independent contractorship and leasing came in, you know, the radios were taken out of the cars. You're dependent only on street hails. There's no more guaranteed income. There's only now fixed expense expenses. And so that happened like through the 70s and the 80s for after that disruption, I would say it was Uber and Lyft and the real attempt to gigafy this industry and this workforce. Work that had been a pathway to a middle class life. Right. That we had spent 15 years in a movement establishing that. And then these companies came in and completely interrupted our movement and disrupted the progress that we had made. The disruption of today is certainly the threat of driverless vehicles and Waymo. I would say that the difference between when we face down Uber and Lyft, we weren't ready. We were not ready for the disruption. We were not ready for the amount of corporate wealth and consolidated capital and political capital that we were going to have to face off against today. As, you know, as Waymo comes in, Waymo cannot use the drivers in the same way, because they're trying to oust the drivers. And I think that there is a sensitivity in the political class that remembers the suicides and knows that we as a union are an unrelenting force. And so I feel like, you know, I mean, the fighter in me, right? Like, the unionist in me is like, yeah, like, come on, Waymo, like, let's have it out. You know, like, you. You underestimate us at your own peril. Like, you're not the first beast we gotta slay here.

[Cal Penn]

So what are you most excited about?

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Looking forward. And also, can you talk a little bit about. I know during Zoran's transition, you were on one of the transition committees. Your life's work is protesting these same buildings that you had the chance to help plan for at least the next four years of our city. What was that like?

[Bedavita Sai]

Well, yeah, I mean, my role. I mean, I was on a temporary transition committee that I get to keep my day job and as long as the drivers will have me. I am really excited. Not just in my capacity with the union. I'm excited as, like, someone who grew up poor and, you know, whose parents died poor. I'm really excited to have a mayor, like, who loves my class, you know, who loves my class as much as he hates war. Because that, for me, has been the guiding light of how I want to live my own life. And I mean, we've suffered so much as a working class under, you know, under the neocons who still just can't quit it, under, you know, austerity budgets. And our union's been involved in the campaign to call for, you know, progressive taxation and to tax the rich their fair share. And our tagline of our campaign is tax the rich and not the poor. Right? Because we've seen the impact of. Of the. The attacks on working people. And for us, it's been, oh, well, you're independent contractors. You're not really workers. And those classifications don't really matter. You know, to me, it's about which class you're in. So I think to have that is a different framework. And it's already been illustrated by Mayor Mamdani creating the office of a Deputy Mayor of Economic Justice. And to both, I think, number of individuals and the structural changes that he's made, the fact that he is so fearless and so principled. And, you know, I said to, you know, I said to Zoran when, you know, he come to our office, right, right before the inauguration, and I said, you know, first time I'm going to get to work with the mayor who loves the drivers as much as I do. And there's just. That's nice, you know.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Yeah.

[Bedavita Sai]

Just beautiful feeling.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Yeah. Well, I mean, the. I'm. I'm heavily biased because, you know, my feelings about you and your organization for years. But it's exciting that at a time where we have a mayor like this who has, by the way, tons of opposition from the mainstream of both Democrats and Republicans, not just in the city, but statewide, that people who do the kind of work that you do for working families are front and center. I think it'll, you know, we're all hopeful that that'll continue to make a huge difference because the work is just getting started now that. Now that he's the mayor. So it's a nice problem to have, I think. Berovi, it's always great to see you and to talk to you and it like to kind of nerd out over all of the work that you do is very special. So thank you.

[Bedavita Sai]

Thank you so much.

[Cal Penn]

Here we go again as a production of iHeart podcasts and snafu Media in association with New Metric Media.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Our executive producers are me, Cal Penn,

[Cal Penn]

Ed Helms, Mike Falborn, Alyssa Martino, Andy Kim, Pat Kelly, Chris Kelly and Dylan Fagan.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Megan Tan is our producer and writer. Dave Shumka is our producer and editor. Our consulting producer is Raman Borsalino. Tori Smith is our associate producer.

[Cal Penn]

Theme music by Chris Kelly.

[Interviewer (possibly Richard)]

Logo by Matt Gossen.

[Cal Penn]

Legal review from Daniel Welch, Caroline Johnson and Megan Halson. Special thanks to Glenn Basner, Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein and everyone at I Heart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kari Lieberman, and Nikki Etor. Thanks for listening, everybody. Tell your friends, write a review. All of this helps. I appreciate you listening. And until we go again, I'm Kalpin. If you love audiobooks or you just really love a great story, I wanna tell you about my other podcast, Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks from Audible. Sci fi, Comedy, romance, thrillers, you name it. No reading required, just listening. Because let's be honest, having a great story read to you is kind of next level. Check out Hearsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Bedavita Sai]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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