America’s Deadliest Election with Dana Bash

Summary

Here's Where It Gets Interesting – Episode Summary: "America’s Deadliest Election with Dana Bash"

Release Date: October 14, 2024
Host: Sharon McMahon
Guest: Dana Bash, CNN Chief Political Correspondent and Author of "America’s Deadliest Election"

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Introduction to Dana Bash and Her New Book

In this compelling episode, Sharon McMahon welcomes Dana Bash to discuss her latest book, "America’s Deadliest Election". Dana Bash, a prominent figure in political journalism, delves into a lesser-known yet pivotal election in American history that has profound implications for today’s political landscape.

Notable Quote:
Sharon McMahon introduces Dana Bash:

[01:07] Sharon McMahon: "You probably recognize her face and her name from CNN and she has a new book out on a topic that I think you are going to have some mind blown emojis appear above your head when you hear about."

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The Current Election Climate vs. Historical Elections

Dana Bash draws parallels between the tumultuous 2024 election season and historical elections, emphasizing the unpredictability and intense partisan conflicts that characterize both eras.

Notable Quote:

[02:02] Dana Bash: "This is why we do what we do because we expect the unexpected and we certainly got it this summer."

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The Unexpected Shift in the Democratic Ticket

A significant surprise discussed is President Joe Biden’s decision to step aside from the Democratic ticket, a move that caught many off guard, including Dana Bash.

Notable Quote:

[02:44] Dana Bash: "I would have said absolutely surprised in the day, two days, three days, maybe even a week afterwards."

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The Influence of Nancy Pelosi

Sharon probes into the role Nancy Pelosi played in Biden’s exit from the race. Dana attributes substantial influence to Pelosi, highlighting her strategic maneuvers to safeguard the Democratic Party’s interests.

Notable Quote:

[04:47] Dana Bash: "Yes, because Nancy Pelosi... I believe that that moment, even though she did many interviews... I think we could be in a different place right now."

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Trump's Strategic Adjustments

With Kamala Harris gaining unexpected momentum, Dana discusses how Donald Trump’s campaign is struggling to effectively counteract this shift, relying more on personal attacks than policy-based strategies.

Notable Quote:

[07:17] Dana Bash: "He is trying to find the right tactic in order to go after her. And he doesn't really fully know what to do with her."

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Messaging vs. Policies in Voter Perception

The conversation underscores the importance of not just policy articulation but also the ability of candidates to connect emotionally with voters, making them care about the proposals being presented.

Notable Quote:

[09:09] Dana Bash: "It's the messenger as much as the message and the connection and the authenticity... that really matters."

---

The Impact of Social Media Algorithms

Dana expresses concern over how modern algorithms create echo chambers, limiting individuals’ exposure to objective information and reinforcing partisan viewpoints, thereby exacerbating divisions.

Notable Quote:

[12:00] Dana Bash: "They have created a feedback loop for every individual who is not making a point to seek out facts... unless you stop and say, let me go look at the objective truth."

---

Overview of "America’s Deadliest Election" and the 1872 Louisiana Election

Dana provides an in-depth look into her book, which explores the 1872 gubernatorial election in Louisiana. This election was marred by violence, voter suppression, and political corruption, leading to the Colfax Massacre and the eventual establishment of Jim Crow laws.

Notable Quote:

[21:19] Dana Bash: "The Colfax Massacre... 150 black voters were slaughtered by white voters in this parish."

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The Colfax Massacre and Its Consequences

The discussion highlights the Colfax Massacre as a turning point that led to prolonged disenfranchisement and systemic racism, fundamentally altering the course of American civil rights.

Notable Quote:

[26:05] Dana Bash: "Reconstruction effectively ended, and that was really the final straw for any notion of equality for black Americans in the south for 100 years."

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Collaboration and Research Process

Dana shares insights into her collaborative process with co-author David Fisher, detailing the extensive research conducted through historical newspapers and archival materials to accurately portray the election’s events and their lasting impact.

Notable Quote:

[33:27] Dana Bash: "All of the newspapers from back then, they're all online on newspapers.com... it allowed us to see the reporting and the point of view of the time."

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Lessons from History for Modern Elections

Concluding the conversation, Dana emphasizes the critical importance of safeguarding electoral institutions and fostering trust in the democratic process to prevent history from repeating itself. She warns against the dangers of undermining election integrity, drawing lessons from the 1872 election’s legacy.

Notable Quote:

[39:34] Dana Bash: "We cannot take for granted the institutions that allow us to be a free and fair democracy."

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Closing Thoughts

Sharon and Dana reflect on the enduring relevance of historical events in understanding and navigating today’s political challenges. The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the fragility of democratic institutions and the constant vigilance required to maintain them.

Notable Quote:

[43:20] Dana Bash: "We have come a long way... it's so true what you said. To have the perspective of history, the context of what came before us to learn from."

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Conclusion

This episode of "Here's Where It Gets Interesting" offers a profound exploration of a pivotal yet overlooked election in American history, drawing enlightening connections to contemporary political dynamics. Dana Bash’s expertise and engaging storytelling provide listeners with a deeper understanding of electoral integrity and the enduring struggle for civil rights.

Get the Book:
America’s Deadliest Election: The Cautionary Tale of the Most Violent Election in American History is available now wherever books are sold. Support local bookstores or purchase directly through bookshop.org.

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If you enjoyed this episode, consider subscribing or sharing to support the show. Follow Sharon McMahon and Dana Bash for more insightful discussions on history, culture, and politics.

Transcript

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[Sharon McMahon]

Hello friends. Welcome. Delighted to have you with me today. My guest is Dana Bash. You probably recognize her face and her name from CNN and she has a new book out on a topic that I think you are going to have some mind blown emojis appear above your head when you hear about. It is a book called America's Deadliest Election and I can almost promise you it's not an election you've heard of before. So let's dive in. I'm Sharon McMahon and here's where it gets interesting. I am really excited to be joined by Dana Bash. Thanks for being here today.

[Dana Bash]

It's my honor. Thank you so much for inviting me.

[Sharon McMahon]

You are releasing a book about elections in the middle of a very contentious election season.

[Dana Bash]

Is it? I. I hadn't noticed.

[Sharon McMahon]

I hadn't noticed. Is this any different than any other election in history?

[Dana Bash]

I mean, wow. Just this summer alone, now that we have like a second. Not that we're catching our breath because now we're really starting the sprint towards election day. The traditional after Labor Day sprint. Just thinking about from the time we did the debate June 27th until summer ended. All of the things that.

[Sharon McMahon]

All of the things. Yes.

[Dana Bash]

Wow. This is why we do what we do because we expect the unexpected and we certainly got it this summer.

[Sharon McMahon]

No kidding. How surprised were you in the change in candidate on the Democratic ticket? Were you like what? Or did you See it coming a mile away.

[Dana Bash]

Let me answer that question by asking you a question. Do you mean starting from when, like after the debate or.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yeah, let's say after the debate. Were you really surprised to see Biden step aside?

[Dana Bash]

I would have said absolutely surprised in the day, two days, three days, maybe even a week afterwards. Because it took a minute for the leaders in the party to start to, as they like to say in political speak, give him room to make a different decision. Normal people try to kick him out, him to get out and try not to look like a jerk, let's just put it that way. Once that happened, though, once Nancy Pelosi, who by the way, she came on State of the Union with me the Sunday after the debate, so it was just a few days after the debate and she wanted to come on to completely defend him and she did. There was no daylight there. There was no sense that she was anything other than pro Joe Biden staying on the ticket. And that changed. And that seemed to have changed once they started to see the data and not just how it affected the presidential, but also the down ballot races. So as we got into week two and three after the debate, I thought, well, maybe it's more likely. But every move that President Biden made was to dig his heels in, whether it was letters that he wrote or, you know, things to say to donors. I mean, every move he made was, I'm not going anywhere until he did.

[Sharon McMahon]

How much of this exit from the race do you credit to Nancy Pelosi? Because there are a lot of people who are like, man, it was that one TV appearance because up until that moment, everybody was all about it. Everybody was circling the wagons, coalescing around him. And then all she had to do was drop a suggestion. Do you pin that on her?

[Dana Bash]

Yeah, because she has such power in the Democratic Party still and she is somebody who unabashedly wants to win, but most importantly in this election is singularly focused on preventing Donald Trump from getting back in the White House. I mean, she is so blunt about it. When she went on her book tour, she was even more clear that that was the whole ball game for her. And yes, I believe that that moment, even though she did many interviews and she sort of danced around her intention in that Morning Joe interview that you're referring to, where she opened the possibility of people making their own decisions, she knows exactly what she was doing. And then after that, the people who came out, I thought it was a tell the Adam Schiffs of the world, who's extremely close with Nancy Pelosi and Jamie Raskin and Zoe Lofgren. Those are three House members who are some of her most trusted lieutenants in the House of Representatives. That was telling. Now, I asked her about it in an interview and she really pushed back on me, saying, well, that diminishes them. They can do it on their own. But if Nancy Pelosi hadn't said what she said in that interview on Morning Joe, I think we could be in a different place right now.

[Sharon McMahon]

And what an interesting place we have moved to. Right. Like, this is a level of momentum that I think would have been very difficult for anybody to predict a level of momentum on the part of Harris. It certainly is not the race Donald Trump thought he was running. And you can tell that this has sort of set their strategy back on its heels a bit in terms of how do we compete against this Harris momentum versus how do we hammer Joe Biden for being too old, too tired, too sleepy, too, you know what, all of the adjectives that they use, the strategy that her opponent needs to have now has to also abruptly shift. How do you see, as somebody who's been covering elections for a long time, very experienced elections reporter, how do you see Trump's strategy shifting in real time to sort of counteract this Harris momentum?

[Dana Bash]

Well, what you can see is him struggling. He's trying to figure it out. He is trying to find the right tactic in order to go after her. And he doesn't really fully know what to do with her. And that is really clear. His campaign, his aides are desperate for him to go after her on policies, on the Biden, Harris policies, on what she says she wants to do in the first term that she would be in if she's elected. And he goes after her on personal attacks. And then he's very open about it. I mean, he said recently to a rally, my people want me to focus on policy and not personal attacks, but I'm going to do it and I have every right to do it. And look, I mean, that tactic has worked for him in the past. And what's fascinating to me is the way that she is not taking the bait on that. She's not engaging at that level.

[Sharon McMahon]

You know, you bring up a really good point, which is that as much as voters like to say, well, I care about their policies, what's the policy, as much as voters say they care about the policies, what they actually care about is how a candidate makes them feel. Because you could have both candidates present the same policy and they're going to feel two very different ways about it, depending on which mouth is delivering the message. It's not just the ability to articulate a policy because Hillary Clinton was uniquely good at that.

[Dana Bash]

Sure.

[Sharon McMahon]

It is the ability to make the voter care about what they're proposing. Right.

[Dana Bash]

Yep. It's the messenger as much as the message and the connection and the, you know, authenticity is kind of an overused word in politics. But it does matter, and that's really key. The one thing I will say is an open question about this election when you talk about policy is the reproductive rights question. And we did see that as a driving policy in the 2022 midterms, which is why that red wave never came. House Republicans took over, but just by like, you know, just a wee bit, and the Republicans didn't take the Senate. And so even this week, you see Kamala Harris and people who support her on a reproductive rights tour, particularly in places like Florida, where they're trying to kind of stick it to Trump because he is a Florida voter and will be voting on the referendum there, where he has had some trouble landing on a position on that or a way to explain his position on that. But that is an open question. Policy in addition to the economy, which even though it's a feel vibes thing, since that's one of the words of the 2024 election vibes, I do think the economy really does matter. And I think that for voters, particularly some swing voters in key states in suburbs, the abortion issue is still going to be a driving one. And that would have been the case whether it was Joe Biden on the top of the ticket or Kamala Harris.

[Sharon McMahon]

How has this changed over time? You've written a book about America's deadliest election, and I'm anxious to talk about that. But you've also just been personally involved in learning about talking about reporting on elections for a long time. How has this issue changed over time? Has there ever been a time where Americans cared more about the stone cold facts and they cared more about the clearly articulated policy proposals? Or is this just human nature to care more about, or at least as much about the messenger as the message?

[Dana Bash]

It's human nature. I mean, that has been the case. One of the things I learned in doing this book is there was, and we can talk about it in a second. I know there was this character, Governor Henry Wormuth of Louisiana, who it was all about him and his charisma and how he kind of presented himself to voters and it allowed him to be a Republican, which is the party of Lincoln back then for voting rights and for civil rights, for the newly freed slaves, as they did his policies, which is why he was able to change and people still followed him. So I think that that has been, that's human nature and I think that's a really good way to put it. Sharon. I mean, that's just kind of the way we are as human beings. But this election is something that fascinates me because we have become so stuck in the algorithms that push information towards us, depending on what we look at, that it has created a feedback loop for every individual who is not making a point to seek out facts, as you put it, or objective journalism, objective truth. It is so easy to just look on your phone, look on your social media and I mean, I'm not on TikTok, but obviously we know the way TikTok works and that algorithm is like no other, that if you watch a video about how great Donald Trump is, then TikTok will be pushing like minded people and ideas to your phone. And at a certain point that's pretty much all you're going to get. And that's true on Instagram and so forth. So and same with if you support Kamala Harris and you're looking at memes of Brat sommer and you know, coconut trees, then you're probably going to get more of that. And unless you stop and say, let me go look at the objective truth and what is the down the middle news telling me? That's how you're going to see the world and that's how you're going to see these candidates. And that scares me because not everybody has it in them or has the inclination to get beyond that.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yeah, most people don't have hours a day to dedicate to this. Yeah, they just don't. If they have hours a day, it's very likely not how they want to spend their hours a day. They have other things they would prefer to be doing rather than being like, let me fact check this one story that I read this one place. Most people just don't have the time or inclination to do those things and it's no shade to them. Right? Like that's just again, we're busy, we have lives, we have kids, we have jobs, all the things. We don't have time for this. And it has become a time when people are increasingly distrustful of institutions, institutions like traditional media outlets. I know you're very familiar with this topic. How are people supposed to make sense of this? If you don't have hours a day to devote to fact checking what candidates say and what the news media says. How are we supposed to just as the average human make sense of this For a gift that is always on time and lasts a lifetime, you can't do better than Masterclass if you are struggling with what to get. For somebody who has everything, a Masterclass subscription is a perfect gift. Don't just give your loved ones something they want, give them something they want to be with MasterQuest, your loved ones can learn from the best to become their best. I really enjoy listening to it on podcast mode so that I can go about my day or listen in my car. But you can also watch all of the very high quality video productions. Everyone from Malcolm Gladwell talking about how to be a better writer to some of your favorite chefs teaching you how to make cultural dishes at home. I know I personally have been a Masterclass subscriber for years and I have given Masterclass subscriptions to many people as gifts. And Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com Sharon for the current offer that's up to 50% [e-mail] Sharon masterclass.com Sharon.

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[Dana Bash]

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[Sharon McMahon]

Easy.

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[Dana Bash]

Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now.

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[Sharon McMahon]

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[Dana Bash]

And all the styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer.

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[Dana Bash]

Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dsw.com. just be aware. Be news and information literate as much as you can. And we need to do a better job of teaching our kids in school that what they're seeing on their social media feeds are not necessarily right. And here's the way that you learn how to get information that you need to be a basic rudimentary member of society and the voting public to have the civil discourse that you need to have in order to participate in what we have is this great democracy. And that sounds like, really, as it's coming out of my mouth, I sound like, so corny and dorky. But that is true. And I think we just need to do a better job of teaching people. I think most people don't even know that there are algorithms that push things to their phone, but there are. And you know, one thing that is interesting about that is in this book, it goes way back to 1872, is that back then the media landscape was using 1872 technology, but the same dynamic in that there were partisan newspapers. That was it. And so you got your information from the pro Republican side or the pro Democratic side, from the people who. I mean, I'm just going to be blunt. Who were racist and wanted to make sure that blacks did not get the right to vote or the civil rights or basic rights that they deserved, which is why the Civil War was fought and to end slavery, or those who wanted to keep it the way it was before the Civil War, even though they had lost the Civil War to the North. And the way that that played out in these newspapers was fascinating, which is what makes it a lot easier for us, as you know, looking back 150 years, to get a sense of the dynamic, because the newspapers were so incredibly political and slanted, and they were pretty open about it. And it was at the advent of the Telegraph, which made it much easier at that point. That made information fly by 1872 standards. And so it was hard back then to get objective news.

[Sharon McMahon]

Totally. Yeah. People think it's like, oh, today is the worst it's ever been. It's so partisan. No, no, no, no, no. Literally, since this country's beginning.

[Dana Bash]

Yeah.

[Sharon McMahon]

That it just used different technology. You subscribed to the I hate George Washington newspaper called something different, but literally, that's what it was.

[Dana Bash]

I wonder how many subscribers that would have back then.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yeah. I hate George Washington. Tell me more about what made you want to write a book about America's deadliest election. Out of all of the elections you could write about, there have been a few you could have written a whole book about the 2000 election. Like, there's been a few dramatic elections. Why this one in particular?

[Dana Bash]

I was approached by my co author, David Fisher, who got the idea from Dan Abrams, who has written several books with him. And the truth is, I didn't know. Did you know much about this?

[Sharon McMahon]

See, I did. I did because I have taught a workshop on this election. So when I read it, I'm like, which election are we talking about? And I was like, get out. Because I have. Actually, three years ago. No, three years ago, I taught a whole workshop on this. And so I was very familiar. And so it was exciting to see it in Bukhara.

[Dana Bash]

Wow.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yes.

[Dana Bash]

Wait, okay. Okay. My mind is blown because I love history. David Fisher loves history. Everybody who I've talked to who are knowledgeable about history, even people like from.

[Sharon McMahon]

Louisiana, it's not a well known story.

[Dana Bash]

They don't know about it. No and no. There's so many reasons for that.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yeah.

[Dana Bash]

Mostly it's just the way history is taught and it's taught by the people who won the debate and they don't want to maybe teach the other side of it. And now we're in a different world, thank goodness. And I'm so happy that David approached me with this and Dan Abrams, because I just can't believe that I have lived on this earth for this long.

[Sharon McMahon]

It's a crazy story.

[Dana Bash]

In the field that I have.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yes.

[Dana Bash]

In the field that I have and not known. If I would have known about this before the 2020 election, I would have been able to cover it so differently because the circumstances could not be more different. I mean, back then, in 1872. And let me just sort of quickly give your listeners a little bit of a thumbnail. The Civil War ends. Reconstruction begins. Former slaves are finally allowed to vote. And in 1870 in Louisiana, they do. They take advantage of that. And this guy named Henry Wormuth, in this particular story, he's a carpetbagger. He comes down from the north, he runs for governor, and he wins because he appeals to the black vote. And he does very, very well. And there's some quotes that he used that sounded like Martin Luther King Jr. It's actually kind of remarkable. He didn't stay that way. He changed and he became not a friend of the black voter. But at that point, that's what he did. So the Southern Democrats, because, remember, everything was reversed. The Democrats were those who believed that the south should stay the way it was, which is the blacks should remain. Either remain slaves or not be given Equal rights. And it was the Republicans, the party of Lincoln, that did not believe that. So the Democrats said, oh, okay, we see what's happening here. Our society is going to change dramatically if we don't stop black voters from actually using their right and becoming powerful with the right that they have with the Constitution. So they started to intimidate and make it hard for, you know, come up with these ridiculous questionnaires about how many bubbles are in a bar of soap and things like that in order to get them to vote. And what happened was violence and chaos because the Republicans and the black voters who supported them were like, wait a second, this is not a fair election. Because the people who were going to vote for me couldn't vote. I mean, look at the voting rolls. It just. It didn't work out. So this is not a free and fair election. And the Democrats balked at it. So nobody would concede in this gubernatorial election. And then the same thing happened with the legislature and so on. So what happened as a result was there were two governors who were actually sworn in, a Democrat and a Republican, two legislatures, two slates of judges, and no one would concede. And the Democrats were very openly calling for violence, calling for guns in the streets and chaos and a coup and everything that they could do in order to stop the Republicans from getting power, in order to keep black Americans from being the members of society with the rights that everybody else has. So nobody knew what was going on with these elections. And this lasted for months. And the thing to remember, and I'm sure you talked about this as well, because of the violence. Well, let me back up. There was a massacre in Grant Parish, Colfax massacre. That's what it's called. When black voters were absolutely adamant that they were disenfranchised and their votes did not count and they were standing firm. And they were slaughtered by white voters in this parish. 150 black voters. And because of the jury system, the local and state government knew that if they were going to prosecute these white murderers, they weren't going to win. So they put it in federal government and it went all the way up to the Supreme Court. Because what they did was they tried these individuals through these new civil rights laws because there was a new constitutional amendment after the Civil War and the Supreme Court decision was, it is not the federal government's role to dictate civil rights. It is the state's role. And then that ushered in Jim Crow laws in the south for 100 years.

[Sharon McMahon]

This one election changed the course of American history, totally. This one election radically altered life for millions of people for many decades. And we don't even know about it. It's not even in the books. You're like, I've never heard of this before. It's kind of a more obscure story about it.

[Dana Bash]

How did you know about it? I'm curious.

[Sharon McMahon]

I started researching about how civil rights came to apply to states. And so that process of like, when did we decide that civil rights actually do apply to states and are not just administered by the federal government. This case, by the way, this story actually has impacts on how the Supreme Court interpreted the Second Amendment.

[Dana Bash]

Yes, exactly.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yes. That you did not have an individual's, you know, state right to just own whatever weapons you wanted. This is very, very far reaching. I just can't overstate how interesting this story is and very ripe for the picking in today's modern era. Once you learn this story, you will be like, no way. You will see the dominoes fall of like, this makes so much sense about all of these things now. This all makes sense. What were some of the biggest aha moments for you when you were researching this?

[Dana Bash]

Yeah, I mean, that was the big. That was the biggie. That's the reason why the Southern states. Well, reason A. Why Southern states were able to impose these horrific, horrific laws that not only effectively prevented black voters from exercising their rights, but societally, you know, the whites only bathrooms and back of the bus and everything, that all stemmed from that decision. Right then if you Fast forward to 1876, the presidential election that year, and because the electoral process was so corrupted still, it was not fixed from 1872, it was not fixed at all. It was still corrupted. It was a mess in Louisiana and other states, including South Carolina, that when the slate of electors were sent to Congress. Now we are all familiar with that process and Congress was either supposed to approve or deny. They got multiple slates of electors from Louisiana, for example, and so Congress wouldn't take them. And so what happened was that there was no clear winner in the presidential race and they needed to find a way to pick the President with a mess with the Electoral college. And what happened was there was a kind of backroom deal, it was done at a restaurant actually. And there was a compromise that effectively, to make a very long story short, allowed for one person, one member of Congress to be a tie breaking vote and decide the President and decided whether her be Hayes as part of that deal. The wink and the nod, which was not so much a wink and a nod, it was pretty clear Hayes, a Republican, agreed that he would withdraw federal troops from the south, federal troops who were helping to keep the peace and to protect the rights as much as they could of black voters. And that was it. The federal troops pulled out. Reconstruction effectively ended, and that was really the final straw for any notion of equality for black Americans in the south for 100 years, until we saw in the 50s and 60s, the modern civil rights movement finally try to right that wrong.

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[Sharon McMahon]

Talk a little bit more about your research and writing process because I have a history book coming out.

[Dana Bash]

Oh, wow.

[Sharon McMahon]

It's called the Small and the Mighty Twelve Unsung Americans who Changed the Course of History. So I'm very interested in this concept of, like, the people that you don't know, the stories that you don't know that radically alter history. And your book, I read that book. Thank you. Completely aligns with this concept of like, there's a story you don't know that changed the world. Right. And the story that you're talking about in your book totally did in massive ways. So my point is that I know a little bit about what it's like to research and write a history book. And I'm curious. Everybody has their own process. Everybody has their own preferences, superstitions, et cetera. Talk a little bit more about what it was like to research this book and write it.

[Dana Bash]

You're writing that book on your own, Right? Okay. I wrote this book with David Fisher, who is a very experienced.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yes, he is very experienced writer. Yes.

[Dana Bash]

And so I followed his lead. That's the honest truth. Because I've never done anything like this before. I mean, I have my day job and I focus on researching on current events and the history behind it when it is appropriate. And so what I learned from him and I. Shame on me for not knowing this, and I'm sure you do, is that all of the newspapers from back then, they're all online on newspapers.com. it's all available. So the Internet stinks for so many reasons. Put this in the pro column.

[Sharon McMahon]

Agreed, agreed.

[Dana Bash]

In the very, very big pro column. So to be able to really read the reporting and I. You can see my air quotes for your listeners. I'm telling you, I'm doing air quotes from the time is so illuminating because I did the air quote on reporting because it's point of view, because these newspapers were so partisan. And that's so much of how we got the information. And you can see in the book, a lot of the quoting is from various newspapers of the day. And we say, you know, the Times Picayune, which now no one would actually think about it because it's still a newspaper that is very well read and respected. Back then, they were kind of the mouthpiece for the Southern Democrats. They're not people who would be respected in today's society. I'll Just leave it that way.

[Sharon McMahon]

It was not objective reporting of here's what this side says and here's what this side is also saying. A lot of newspapers, if people who are listening to this are not aware, a lot of newspapers had a strong orientation and all of their reporting was filtered through that lens of, we're going to say the good things about the Southern segregationists. We're going to say the good things about the sort of northern reformers, whatever it is. There was a strong editorial skew in most newspapers.

[Dana Bash]

Yeah. Which allows us 150 years hence to really get a sense of where the dividing lines were.

[Sharon McMahon]

I totally agree. It's very illuminating to be like, I can just look up what they were saying in 1872. It's so fascinating. So you're collaborating with a very experienced writer and he's written some huge bestselling books. And so he definitely knows how to craft a bestseller. He's very compelling writer. He knows how to take the reader through the narrative so that it does not feel like this sort of slog, textbook slog, like sometimes history books can feel. So in that sense, it's very, you know, you move through the story very quickly. Talk a little bit more, if you will, about how you collaborated with him because I think people are always interested in the behind the scenes of how the sausage gets made. How does a book like this get made?

[Dana Bash]

You know, I let him take the lead because I'm in an election year and it's been a little busy, as we discussed at the beginning. And so that's number one and number two, because he's so experienced and I have not written a book, never mind a book like this before. So he kind of helped guide on, first and foremost the research and then the craft. And we did a lot of conversations about the parallels, for example, between not just the times, but the people. Governor Wormuth, who is this charismatic guy who changed with the wind when the wind moved to a place where he wanted to stay in power. So he was a shapeshifter that way. A guy who somehow, despite the fact that most people knew he was very corrupt and a power hungry guy and was in it for himself more than anything else. People still loved him. They loved to love him. And he was very open about it. He was quoted basically saying that in the newspapers back then. And so we did a lot of discussion about the parallels and how to frame it, not with like actually saying it. We didn't bring in modern times into the book, but it was written in a way that makes it very clear where we're going with it. And that was something that we discussed a lot.

[Sharon McMahon]

Do you feel like more history books are in your future, or do you feel.

[Dana Bash]

I would love to.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yeah. You enjoyed the process.

[Dana Bash]

I would love to. Again, I think while I still have a day job, having a collaborator who is really good at this is probably the way. The way for me to go. You know, it's interesting because I. As I said, I've never written a book before, and I have been thinking a lot about if I were to write a book up until I got this opportunity, what would it be? You know, talking about my experiences. Sure. I mean, that kind of thing. Yeah.

[Sharon McMahon]

Memoir.

[Dana Bash]

Yeah. But I was more thinking along the lines of what I cover.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yeah.

[Dana Bash]

And more of a reporting book with regard to current times and current events. And I never really thought I had it in me to do what you do, which is go back in time. Not that I didn't want to, but just the bandwidth.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yeah.

[Dana Bash]

But I find it fascinating and I feel so lucky that I got to learn all of this. And like I think I said to you, boy, do I wish I knew about this history before 2020. And I. @ least I have it in my head and now sort of flowing through my veins. As we approach the 2024 election, what.

[Sharon McMahon]

Do you hope that the reader takes away from this? What do you. Of course, it's a fascinating story. Of course, learning the history is in and of itself worth learning. But what is your hope? When you think about the reader closing the last page or listening to the last few moments of the audiobook, what do you hope that they sort of tuck in their pocket and take with them?

[Dana Bash]

That's such a good question. That we cannot take for granted the institutions that allow us to be a free and fair democracy. And whether it is corrupting an election because you're racist, which is what happened back then, and you don't want to give up the power that you had pre civil war and trying to find ways to do it. And they decided the electoral process was the way to do it. Or in modern times, you look at an election and you say, well, I want to win, so I'm going to make the decision that I'm going to call it fraudulent, even though no courts have said, I see widespread evidence of fraud. That is dangerous. Very, very different genesis or reason for the danger. Very different, but still dangerous. Because if and when Americans do not have confidence in the electoral system and that institution, you talked about institutions, then everything crumbles around it. And Back then, there was reason not to have confidence in the institution. And now, again, there's no evidence that we have seen that supports the doubt being sown and told to people who really believe that the system is corrupted, because if they go and vote and they don't believe that the system works, then it is going to continue to divide us. It is going to continue to make it so that every person who is in charge, even though they say they want to be the leader for all Americans, is going to have a lot of trouble actually governing that way if half of the country or even a third of the country simply does not believe that they are the legitimate leader.

[Sharon McMahon]

Having researched this book, having seen up close and personal how corrupt the elections were during the 1870s in this specific time and place in Louisiana and then also federally, having really researched that, do you have confidence that in comparison, America has fair and free elections today?

[Dana Bash]

In comparison? Absolutely. I mean, there are laws that are controversial that were passed after the 2020 election in some red states that, you know, Larry David satirized the Georgia election law with the water. But there are other aspects of other laws that we're all just going to keep an eye on. But compared to the lack of guardrails back then, compared to the open intimidation and execution of people who just wanted to vote because that was their right. Yeah. I mean, there's no comparison.

[Sharon McMahon]

I always find studying history like this, even though it's difficult, you know, like the Colfax massacre is difficult to learn about, I always find it helpful because anytime I wake up in the morning and I'm like, oh, no, we are going to hell in a hand basket. Everything is crumbling to pieces. Stories like this are very illuminating where you're like, actually pump the brakes. Yeah, hold up. Maybe not so much. Yes, maybe not so much. We have come a long way. And stories like this indicate, yes, we still have room to improve. We still have miles to go, but we have come a long way.

[Dana Bash]

We have come a long way. I mean, if you even go back to. Okay, you start here. These elections in 1872 up to 1876, where the electoral College was a total mess. Who knows who really won that election? Probably nobody, because these states had election systems that were so messed up. Fast forward to this isn't so much about electoral politics, but just about society. To the Great Depression to World War I, to World War II, the 1960s, the violence that this country lived through, from the assassination of JFK to RFK to Martin Luther King. I mean, and on and on and on. And the unrest about the Vietnam War. I mean, the people living in those times thought it has never been this bad and it was bad. So it's so true what you said. To have the perspective of history, the context of what came before us to learn from, but also to maybe make us feel better. Like you said.

[Sharon McMahon]

It's just important, like you said, important context. To better be able to do our jobs. Like in your case, to cover elections, but to better be able to understand where we've come from, from so we can understand where we're going and not repeat it. And not repeat it.

[Dana Bash]

Yeah.

[Sharon McMahon]

It's such an important story to learn about. I'm so glad somebody has written a book about it. America's Deadliest Election, the Cautionary tale of the Most Violent Election in American History. I can almost promise you most people have not heard this story and I'm.

[Dana Bash]

Still blown away that you have. I'm so impressed.

[Sharon McMahon]

Well, I didn't write a book about it, Dana, so you, you get the scoop on it. But it's truly mind blowing and the far reaching implications cannot be overstated.

[Dana Bash]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's great to talk to you and I look forward to your book.

[Sharon McMahon]

Thank you. Nice to chat with you. Thank you for being here today and we will talk again soon. You can find America's Deadliest Election wherever you get your book. If you want to support a local bookshop, head to yours or go to bookshop.org thanks for joining me. Thank you so much for listening to. Here's where it gets interesting. If you enjoyed today's episode, would you consider sharing or subscribing to this show that helps podcasters out so much? I'm your host and executive producer, Sharon McMahon. Our supervising producer is Melanie Buck Parks and our audio producer is Craig Thompson. We'll see you soon.