Good People with Lucia Knell and Gabriel Reilich

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Good People with Lucia Knell and Gabriel Reilich"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Here's Where It Gets Interesting
• Host: Sharon McMahon
• Episode: Good People with Lucia Knell and Gabriel Reilich
• Release Date: December 2, 2024
• Description: Host Sharon McMahon engages with Lucia Knell and Gabriel Reilich, the minds behind Upworthy and their book Good People. They delve into the importance of sharing positive stories, the impact of social media on human perception, and the creation process of their uplifting book.

---

Introduction

Sharon McMahon opens the episode with excitement about her guests, Lucia and Gabriel Rilich, the creators behind the popular Instagram account Upworthy and the forthcoming book Good People. She sets the stage for a conversation focused on the positive narratives that often go unnoticed in mainstream media.

Meet the Guests: Lucia and Gabriel Rilich

Lucia and Gabriel introduce themselves, sharing their journey from building Upworthy on Instagram to authoring Good People. They emphasize their mission to highlight the "best of humanity" by showcasing stories of compassion, kindness, and decency that counterbalance the typically negative content prevalent on social media.

[03:00] Gabriel Rilich: “We are a brand and a company and an outlet dedicated to sharing good things happening in the world. We call it the best of humanity.”

Upworthy’s Mission and Impact

The Riliches discuss the genesis of Upworthy, born from a desire to catalog and share acts of human decency. They highlight how during the pandemic, their platform became a beacon of hope, providing uplifting content amidst widespread fear and uncertainty.

[04:37] Lucia Rilich: “We believe we're providing a service… it's becoming a beautiful movement towards engaging with content that makes you feel more uplifted and more optimistic about the world.”

Gabriel adds that sharing positive stories not only uplifts others but also benefits the sharers by fostering empathy and compassion.

[06:28] Gabriel Rilich: “Stories about compassion and decency can be just as engaging as the more dramatic elements… they have health benefits, you feel better, it raises oxytocin.”

The Role of Social Media and Media Diet

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the concept of a "media diet"—the idea of consciously selecting the content we consume to maintain a balanced perspective of the world. The Riliches express concern over decreasing attention spans and the overwhelming influx of information driven by algorithms designed to capture attention through dramatic and often negative content.

[06:57] Nell Rilich: “The latest stat on an adult attention span is eight seconds, which is one less than a goldfish… it's our responsibility to be conscious of what we're feeding our minds.”

They argue that while social media has the potential to spread negativity, platforms like Upworthy can harness it to promote positivity and meaningful human connections.

Creating Good People: From Social Media to Book

Sharon steers the conversation towards the Riliches’ book, Good People. Lucia explains how the idea evolved from capturing fleeting positive comments and stories on social media into a tangible, lasting format—a book.

[21:12] Lucia Rilich: “We set off on a mission to start kind of gathering them with more intention and to give them the kind of spotlight that they deserved and come up with a format that they could live forever.”

Gabriel details the meticulous process of interviewing followers, collecting personal stories, and compiling them into a comprehensive volume that celebrates human kindness.

[23:01] Nell Rilich: “We interviewed hundreds of our community members, worked with them hand in hand to put these short stories together… it took over two years.”

They emphasize that Good People is not just a collection of feel-good stories but a testament to the enduring impact of small acts of kindness.

The Power of Small Acts and Ripple Effects

A recurring theme is the profound effect that seemingly minor gestures can have on individuals and communities. Lucia shares a poignant story about a janitor who provided a hungry soldier with lunch, an act remembered decades later.

[37:56] Lucia Rilich: “It's an arrogance to presume… you don't know what your small gesture for another person is going to do.”

Gabriel expands on this, discussing the "triple ripple effect" of kindness: benefiting the receiver, benefiting the giver, and inspiring observers to act positively.

[44:58] Gabriel Rilich: “Doing something for someone else makes them feel better, it makes you feel better, and just observing it elevates you as well.”

Key Takeaways and Takeaways

The episode concludes with the Riliches sharing their hopes for Good People:

1. Understanding Possibilities for a Better World:

   • Demonstrating that positive actions are happening and can be amplified to foster a more compassionate society.

2. Valuing Small Gestures:

   • Encouraging individuals to recognize and perform small acts of kindness, reinforcing that these can have significant impacts.

3. Finding Peace and Calm:

   • Promoting the idea of slowing down, either through engaging with the book or practicing mindfulness, to better absorb and emulate positive interactions.

[33:25] Nell Rilich: “Don't overlook the small things… it could be something as simple as just smiling at someone on the street.”

Gabriel emphasizes the importance of shifting the narrative from negativity to positivity to inspire real-world change.

[42:40] Gabriel Rilich: “If we think that people are bad… but if we allow ourselves to have a bit of a softer interaction with people, it can help create the world that we want to see.”

Empowering Individuals for Collective Good

Lucia and Gabriel advocate for individual actions within one's sphere of influence, dispelling the myth that only grand gestures can effect change. They inspire listeners to redefine their communities and understand their potential to contribute positively, no matter the scale.

[40:29] Lucia Rilich: “Each one of us is meant to change the world… within their own spheres of influence… redefine what community means to you.”

Gabriel adds that fostering a culture of kindness and empathy online can translate into more meaningful and cooperative real-world interactions.

[44:58] Gabriel Rilich: “Encouraging people to engage from a place of feeling energized and believing in each other increases the probability of solving extraordinary difficulties.”

Conclusion

Sharon wraps up the episode by highlighting the significance of Good People as a holiday gift and a source of inspiration for those seeking positivity. She encourages listeners to support the book, available wherever books are sold, and to continue fostering kindness in their daily lives.

[49:43] Lucia Rilich: “Something that feels like an exhale in a world that seems wound ever more tightly… something everybody can enjoy receiving and enjoy having out on their coffee table.”

Notable Quotes:

• Sharon McMahon [02:17]: “I just can't wait to share it with you. We all need more of that at this moment in time.”
• Gabriel Rilich [05:03]: “People are looking for that in the world… stories about compassion and decency can be just as engaging as the more dramatic elements.”
• Lucia Rilich [16:32]: “What wouldn't most of us do for $10 million… how do you resist the siren song of vast personal fortunes to build a different kind of legacy?”
• Gabriel Rilich [17:04]: “It may seem like it's going to work and people are feeling this way has been such a wonderful validation.”
• Lucia Rilich [37:58]: “You're choosing how you want to interact with the world, whether you want to be a positive force for good…”

---

Final Thoughts: This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the enduring impact of kindness and positive narratives. Through the Riliches' experiences with Upworthy and their new book Good People, listeners are encouraged to seek out and contribute to the good in the world, fostering a more empathetic and connected society.

Transcript

[Sharon McMahon]

One of the great pleasures of the holidays is being able to put a smile on one of your loved ones faces with the perfect gift. And it's great when you can get someone a gift they wouldn't necessarily get for themselves. Like a little bit of luxury. Something they don't know that they really wanted, but in fact they do. And for quality gifts at an affordable price, my go to is quince. I have multiple quince pieces in my closet. And listen, as a connoisseur of sweaters, if you've been around here for any period of time, you know that I live where it's cold and I wear sweaters nine, ten months a year. And quince's quality is exactly like what you would expect from a much higher priced store. So gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com Interesting for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com Interesting to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com Interesting do you know the number.

[Zola]

One thing that surprises engaged couples? Take a guess. The sheer amount of decisions they have to make while planning a wedding. Indoors or outdoors. How many guests are kids invited? Controversial. Which cake flavor? Seriously, how do you even begin to figure out what's right for you? That's where Zola comes in. Zola has everything you need to make every wedding decision a piece of cake. From choosing your dream wedding venue and vendors to deciding how to best spend your budget. With tons of customizable wedding websites. Save the dates and invites. Every detail will feel like you. Zola will even help you choose the gifts, experiences and cash funds you really want. The next thing you know, you've planned your whole wedding all in one place. From getting engaged to getting married. Zola has everything you need to plan your wedding in one place. Start [e-mail] that's z o l a.com.

[Sharon McMahon]

Hey friends, welcome. Delighted to have you with me. I am really excited to be chatting today with Lucia, Nell and Gabriel Rilich. You probably have seen their Instagram account upworthy Today we're talking about their book Good People. I think this is going to be a conversation that you find uplifting and thought provoking and I just can't wait to share it with you. We all need more of that at this moment in time, so let's dive in. I'm Sharon McMahon and here's where it gets interesting.

[Lucia Rilich]

It's finally happening. You're finally here. We've been discussing this forever. And I'm so excited to see both of you. Thanks for being here.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, thank you so much.

[Nell Rilich]

At long last.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah. From Instagram to the podcast, here we are.

[Lucia Rilich]

I know, I know. So many people in my community. I know. Follow you. I know, you know, like, maybe they wouldn't recognize your faces, but they would certainly know about your account. And if they don't, tell us a little bit more about it. Because this is really the genesis of this really, really, really wonderful book that.

[Sharon McMahon]

I wanted to talk about today.

[Nell Rilich]

Well, thank you, first of all. And likewise, we are a brand and a company and an outlet dedicated to sharing good things happening in the world. We call it the best of humanity. And so it's not, to be clear, not a stick your head in the sand, you know, suggestion. It's just creating somewhat of a counterbalance and a counter narrative to things you typically see in the media, but especially on social media. It's become this beautiful movement, I think, towards engaging with content and sharing with content that makes you feel more uplifted and more optimistic about the world. And we'll talk a little bit about why that's so important now more than ever. We believe we're providing a service.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, we're, you know, a reminder that there are a lot of beautiful things happening among people and in the world. We're about sharing empathy, compassion, decency in big ways and small. That's happening every day and might not necessarily get the airplay that it deserves. And we've grown a tremendous amount over the past couple years. So I think it's proof that people are looking for that in the world. And stories about compassion and decency can be just as engaging as the more dramatic elements that we're exposed to on social and through the media every day.

[Lucia Rilich]

I know so many people that follow upworthy your account, including myself. Why do you feel like it's important to share these stories? I mean, I agree with you fully, but why do you view it as a service and not just a nice to have? What about that is compelling to you?

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, it's a great question. And it's something we get asked a lot, you know, like, why does it matter to share good stories with people? Is it not just kind of like puppies and rainbows and that sort of thing?

[Lucia Rilich]

But it's whale videos and eagles.

[Gabriel Rilich]

It's also. Yeah, it's also whales and eagles. And sometimes the eagles are carrying paintings across beautiful sunsets.

[Lucia Rilich]

Yep, yep.

[Gabriel Rilich]

But it's a matter of perspective. Right. And a matter of narrative. And if you're only exposed to kind of the more dramatic elements and the more difficult things happening in the world, of which there are many and of which deserve a lot of attention, it can start coloring your view about humanity in that way where you only see that people are untrustworthy, you only see that there's violence, that there's only danger, and then all of a sudden, you start believing that that's the truth about people, that it's the only truth. But there are two sides to the coin, right? People can be great, they can be kind, they can help each other. They can do so without any need for recognition. They can be humble and wonderful. And it's important that those stories get recognition, lest you think that only one view of humanity is the truth. And once you start kind of seeing it in that way and you take it in, it affects how you look at the world. And you go out in the world and you're more prone to actually see those acts of kindness, those micro moments, those little things, those big things, and it can make you more optimistic. It has health benefits, you feel better, it raises oxytocin. And, you know, it's an important thing to kind of balance your media diet and just maintain awareness of the good things that are happening in the world and among people to that point.

[Nell Rilich]

I love when Gabe uses the term media diet because it really is about kind of taking stock on what you're putting inside your brain every day. You know, it's like we're in such an unfortunate situation, and I suspect it'll keep getting more difficult to pull away from the powers that be on social platforms and these algorithms that are capitalizing on our attention spans. I read recently the latest stat on an adult attention span is eight seconds, which is one less than a goldfish.

[Gabriel Rilich]

That seems a little generous, at least for me.

[Nell Rilich]

I know, right? I know. Mine's more like 2 to 3. Depends on what I'm watching, I guess, or who I'm talking to. But that's crazy. That's insane. And in 2005, it was about 15. So it's effectively cut in half over the last 20 years. And it's not surprising, right? It's like way back in 2005, we had the inklings of social media. We had the MySpace, we had the Tumblrs, the early Facebooks of the world. And now every three years, there's a brand new platform coming out with a brand new algorithm to basically suck you in and grab your attention. And so we find that it's our responsibility, so to speak, to if you're gonna be on your phone, at least be feeding your mind with things that'll help broaden your perspective of the world and broaden your perspective of humanity for all the reasons Dave just mentioned.

[Lucia Rilich]

I know you've told the story before, but for people who haven't heard it, how do you guys know each other? And how did you decide to start Upworthy? Like, was this just like a little side hustle, like a side hobby? Did you both quit your jobs and you're like, we're gonna start this extremely lucrative free Instagram account? First of all, people do not realize that no Instagram does not pay large creators. You make a total of zero from your Instagram account. That, I think, kind of blows some people's minds, but that's the truth that, you know, the free content you put out on Instagram is also free to you. We make no dollars on this. And so in many ways, what you're doing actually is more than a service. It's a gift. Right? It's a gift to the reader, it's a gift to the watcher. But talk a little bit more about how you started this account.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, you know, it's funny, in some ways, we can't quit our job because we all kind of work for Instagram a little bit, you know, to get the material out there that we're putting there. But Upworthy, you know, is a media company. It's existed in different forms for many years. I think a lot of people might remember it from the Facebook days, you know, with a huge presence on Facebook. Was actually the company that got Facebook to change their algorithm the first time because it was so popular on newsfeeds and was the fastest growing media company of all time at one point. And then Lucia and I are responsible for building the Instagram up into what it is today. And that basically started just because we saw an opportunity with the platform just to be a place where we could catalog acts of human decency that were happening in the world that we wanted to see ourselves like, it just started because we wanted a place to catalog these things that we could go back to that would be easy and service like kind of a thesaurus and a dictionary of kindness in the world that was happening. And particularly at the beginning of the pandemic, we really needed that ourselves. And we started looking for those moments, and we were sharing them, and it was helping us find some faith in the future during a time when people were fighting over toilet paper rolls at the Costco parking lot. And I think other people Needed that too, because that was the time that it really just exploded in growth during a very difficult time where folks needed that reminder that we can have faith in each other. And Lucia and I have, you know, been working on it for years now, building in into the 5 million following account that it is. And there's been lots of ups and downs and I don't know if I gave a good overview there, Lucia, but please, no, 100%.

[Nell Rilich]

I mean, I think the pandemic, to Gabe's point, really shone a light on how much people need what we do. We went from, I think there was a day we gained like 80,000 followers in a day. It's no joke, you know, and I'm just in my kitchen being like, oh, what's happening? This is amazing. And it makes a ton of sense. It's a moment of uncertainty. It's a moment rooted in fear. And to be able to see the content we were posting of like, yes, everything's terrifying, but maybe let's crowdsource, like, resources we can give one another. Or are there online yoga classes that are working for you right now? Or here's a video of Italians singing opera out their window. It's letting the humanity shine through and remind people that humans are still humans. And actually people come together in many ways in moments like this. And I think it was really just the beginning of something much bigger.

[Lucia Rilich]

It's easy to be online and to be hit in the face with a fire hose of everything that's wrong in the world. That's not even difficult because fear is an incredibly motivating factor in the human mind. If I can make you afraid of it, I can make you pay attention. We don't all rush to turn on the news when kittens are rescued from a tree. You know, like, it doesn't activate the fear centers of the brain that are meant to try to keep you safe from harm so that you don't die. But I'd love to hear your take on this. Are humans really even meant to exist online?

[Sharon McMahon]

Yeah.

[Lucia Rilich]

As an avid user of the Internet, this is not a shame based question of, like, get offline. It's good for you. Do you know what I mean? I actually love the Internet, so this is again, not coming from a high horse place, but is the human brain actually equipped to deal with what it is dealing with right now?

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah. It's such a good observation about the motivating factors to get people to engage online. And the truth is, it is really easy to make people angry. It's one of the easiest things you could do if I wanted to make you mad right now, or your listeners that could say something and people would be like, I can't believe he said that. I got to respond to that. And so I think a lot of times, you know, when we live in an engagement driven society on social, it's the path of least resistance is to make people angry. And that engagement can lead to monetization and that monetization can lead to fame. And so people take that route. Sometimes it just seems like it's an act of being lazy to make people mad, because amazing people bringing people together, educating people, those can also be extremely strong motivators for grabbing someone's attention. But it's a lot harder because you have to know what you're talking about or you have to really believe in the fact that people are good and that there are ways to articulate that in a fashion that's going to stick with people. Now I think that when you do that, when anybody who sets off on that mission accomplishes it successfully, those stories really stay with people. I think that anger can be a fleeting emotion. People move on from the next thing to the next thing to the next thing to be angry. But that kind of thing that makes you realize that there is a reason to believe in each other that can stay with you whether it's a story or whether it's an action that happens in your real life. But to your point about whether we're built for this, social media is a tool just like anything. And it kind of depends on how we use it. And we need to be conscious. It can be a dangerous tool. It can be incredibly effective and powerful tool in terms of how we reach people and the change we can make. But it's the old Spider man sensibility, right? With great power comes great responsibility and the amount of reach any single one of us can have. Now we have to take into account what we're saying.

[Nell Rilich]

Bill Gates sent a memo out to his staff at Microsoft in 1995 where he refers to the Internet as a tidal wave. And it speaks to that exact idea, Gabe, which is, it's coming, you know, and it has great potential to do good. And it also has a darker side. And it's really up to us to use it responsibly and consciously. I think as far as are we equipped to handle this? Are we meant to handle this? I don't think our brains are meant to handle this much information. It is a tidal wave. The second you open social media, you're bombarded. It's a barrage. It's an assault on your senses, really. And I do these things sometimes where I start to just check in with my body as I'm scrolling just to like see how it affects me. And my heart rate goes up the longer I go. And it makes sense because you're getting fed all this different kind of information millisecond after millisecond, and it's just too much, in my opinion.

[Lucia Rilich]

I think this is certainly not the subject of your book, but I think this is an eye opening conversation for people who are not large creators on social media. I think it's interesting to give them a little peek behind the scenes about just how much money there is to be made by making outrage content or hate content. That some of these creators on all the socials, but YouTube, et cetera, some of them are making, you know, $10 million a year producing outreach content. And that is a really seductive siren song. Right? Like, what wouldn't most of us do for $10 million? Like, that's a life changing amount of money for most people, for all people, frankly. And I know your brand is not about making outreach content, but I'm sure just sort of like being plugged into the interwebs. You hear things and you know things and you know people and you see things. You. That's just how it works in your travels around Al Gore's Internet.

[Gabriel Rilich]

And a series of tubes, I believe.

[Lucia Rilich]

That's right, a series of tubes created by Al Gore. So the idea that it's actually probably far more lucrative. You'd probably be far more famous, your faces might be on a billboard if you were to take a different tactic. You know what I mean? Like, how do you resist the siren song of vast personal fortunes to decide to build a different kind of legacy on the Internet?

[Nell Rilich]

To be honest with you, it's been so rewarding seeing what we're building in real time, which is a community of millions and millions of people who are having constructive, dialogue, loving interactions in the comment section, sharing their own stories and being able to see how to Gabe's point, using social media as a tool, we've begun to use these platforms to create that kind of world online. And our hope, and we're seeing it actually happen, is that people then take that offline and bring it into the real world.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah.

[Nell Rilich]

And so that's much more valuable to me.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah. I mean, it may sound corny, but I love people, I really do. And I don't want to make them mad. I want to make them see each other in a kinder, softer light. And so I don't think I would be able to do this any other way than we've done it. And it is really motivating when I'm sure you get this too. Sometimes you share something and you get a DM from someone that said this really reached me in a meaningful moment or an important time or made me see something that I hadn't seen before or I get it now, you know, about an issue or a person or whatever it may be. This saying like thank you for sharing something that made me laugh or feel good during a difficult time in my life and to know that there may be these like vast numbers of followers and reach and engagement and these metrics that you can get caught up on. But really, you know, one of those could be a person whose life was made better from something simple online or a connection that was made. It does make it worthwhile. And so that's what keeps me motivated. And I know we talk about it, Lucia Just those comments and DMS that come in. It prevents us from taking the dark path.

[Nell Rilich]

But we're still vying for a billboard. Please believe.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can crowdsource for that.

[Sharon McMahon]

For a gift that is always on time and lasts a lifetime, you can't do better than Masterclass if you are struggling with what to get. For somebody who has everything, a Masterclass subscription is a perfect gift. Don't just give your loved ones something they want, give them something they want to be with MasterQuest, your loved ones can learn from the best to become their best. I really enjoy listening to it on podcast mode so that I can go about my day or listen in my car. But you can also watch all of the very high quality video productions. Everyone from Malcolm Gladwell talking about how to be a better writer to some of your favorite chefs teaching you how to make cultural dishes at home. I know I personally have been a Masterclass of subscriber for years and I have given Masterclass inscriptions to many people as gifts. And Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com Sharon for the current offer. That's up to 50% [e-mail] Sharon masterclass.com Sharon.

[Cindy Ettler]

I can't even begin to tell you how bad it was. It was Lord of the Flies in a building. It was called Straight Incorporated.

[Narrator]

This is the story of Straight Incorporated, an experimental drug rehab for teenagers that infiltrated communities across the country in the 1980s during the height of the war on drugs, where kidnapping, brainwashing and torture were disguised as therapy. It's the origin story of the troubled teen industry, which continues to profit from the desperation of parents and the vulnerability of their children. And its roots can be traced back to a cult called Synanon. How do I know this? Because I lived through it. My name is Cindy Ettler, and this is season two of the Sunshine Place. Listen to and follow the Sunshine Place an Odyssey original podcast in association with Robert Downey Jr. And Susan Downey. Available now on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Instacart]

Why get all your holiday decorations delivered through Instacart? Because maybe you only bought two wreaths, but you have 12 windows. Or maybe your toddler got very eager with the Advent calendar. Or maybe the inflatable snowman didn't make it through the snowstorm. Or maybe the twinkle lights aren't twinkling. Whatever the reason, this season Instacart's here for hosts and their whole holiday.

[Nell Rilich]

Ha.

[Instacart]

Get decorations from the Home Depot CVS and more through Instacart, and enjoy free delivery on your first three orders. Service fees and terms apply.

[Lucia Rilich]

What made you feel like you wanted to pursue a book project? Yeah, having just released my own book, I have my own take on this. But I want to hear your take on what about a book was appealing to you?

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, it's interesting. We spent a lot of time talking about, you know, the power of social media and the tricky nature of it, but it's also can be a very beautiful thing at times on social. Absolutely. And we were seeing that, you know, where we would share a story, a video, a tweet, thread, whatever it may be about some great experience that something had. And the best part of that is that it would start triggering other stories in our followers and commenters. I'd be like, oh, this reminds me of a teacher that I had. Oh, this reminds me of the time that somebody did something for me that I'll never forget. And Lucci and I really love that. We love seeing these comments crop up and we'd screenshot them, we'd share them with each other. Sometimes we'd post, you know, a comment that showed up in the stories and that would go viral itself. But there was something that didn't sit right with us, which was the ephemeral nature of it all. Social media is a funny thing where it's like that one thing that you don't want people to be able to find or like to live forever. That that's the thing that's easy to Find. But that one thing, that you're like, God, I wish I could go back to this. What was that comment? Somebody said, what was that one post? What was. God, it made me feel so good. Right? And then it's a little harder to find that stuff. And we didn't like it. It didn't sit right with us, because these comments that people were sharing, they were all the seeds of a really beautiful, powerful story that deserved more than the kind of fleeting nature of social media. So we set off on a mission to start kind of gathering them with more intention and to give them the kind of spotlight that they deserved and come up with a format that they could live forever. And, Lucci, I'll let you kind of dive into that, where we're like, what could live forever? How could we take these comments and make them last longer?

[Nell Rilich]

Gabe was like, have you ever heard of book? And I was like, no, what's that? He's like, no, it's crazy. It's this thing called book. And I was like, oh, yeah, okay. Book. Book, yeah, okay. And that's how it came to be. But the questions we started asking were really intended to spark memories in our audience. So, for example, what's the kindest thing a stranger ever did for you? Or tell us about a story you were traveling abroad and someone helped you without even speaking the same language? Or, who's that teacher who changed your life? Or what's a little thing someone did that had a massive impact on you? So anyone, any human being with a beating heart can sit with one of those questions for a second, and likely something's going to come up about someone who stepped in for you. Either you knew them, you had no idea who they were, could have been a kid, could have been a teacher, et cetera. And a memory comes to mind. And so once we asked these six questions over the course of many months, we got inundated with thousands and thousands of responses. It was no joke, because people then came to the comments to say, oh, my God, I'm here just for the comments. And so Gabe and I read through every single one. We started reaching out to the commenters, sending them DMs, saying, hey, we're putting a book together, and we'd love to know more about your story. Can we interview you? And long story short, we interviewed hundreds of our community members, worked with them hand in hand to put these short stories together. They sent us photos, videos, mementos of the person they either know or weren't able to thank. Some people weren't able to reunite with these people, or some have since passed on. And one of my favorite parts was getting to know the real human beings behind these social media handles, because it's so easy to forget that handles on social media are people like you and me. They have families and loved ones and communities and neighbors and passions and hobbies and the things that the social media page just does not paint. And so it was just a wonderful process. We had over a hundred stories in the book, six chapters, over 300 pages, 60,000 words. It took over two years. And we're just so excited to bring it to life.

[Lucia Rilich]

It's one of those books that I feel like, number one, it's a great gift for somebody. I mean, these are honestly stories that all of us need. It doesn't matter how old you are. It doesn't matter how wealthy you are. It doesn't matter if you already have everything and you don't need another tchotchke around your house. It doesn't matter how cynical you are. You will read the pages of this book and be left feeling like, dang, I kind of needed that. You know what I mean? It's just like, it gives you a little hit of hope for the future that, like, yeah, we're not in a speeding train to hell. You know what I mean?

[Nell Rilich]

Okay, that's the next book, please.

[Lucia Rilich]

Yeah. Speeding Train to Hell. Yeah, Watch that. Hit number one immediately, because with Keanu.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Reeves, it can't go under 55 miles per hour.

[Lucia Rilich]

That's right. That's right. Yes. And even the speeding train to hell is a dumpster fire, you know what I mean? When we were researching titles and covers for my own book, and I was looking what was available in the category that I write in, most of the books were called things Like Calamity. You know what I mean? I mean, that's not a real title, but that's the gist. All of the books are like, Midnight on the Speeding Train to Hell, Driven by Satan himself.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yes.

[Lucia Rilich]

The Hidden Story of How Satan Drove America to Hell on a Speeding train.

[Nell Rilich]

That's right.

[Lucia Rilich]

You know what I mean? Like, that's. That's what sounds like.

[Nell Rilich]

I've read that. Yeah.

[Sharon McMahon]

Yes, yes.

[Lucia Rilich]

But just reading through the pages of your book, it just felt like. I don't know how to describe it. I mean, like, saying a hug is, like. That's too stereotypical. That's too cliche. It's one of those things I just, like, really, like, knowing. I remember reading the story of the person who was setting off for, like, army Basic training. And he thought he could get lunch or dinner in the airport. And everything was closed. There were no vending machines. And he asked a janitor and it turns out like, no, there's nothing to eat and he's gonna have to spend the night in the airport hungry. And the janitor comes up to him and gives him his lunch.

[Sharon McMahon]

And, you know, he never was able.

[Lucia Rilich]

To find that janitor again. And I don't know, I just really love it. And I'm sure you hear this from your millions and millions of followers that it just is something that feels like an exhale in a world that seems wound ever more tightly. So I feel like this book is one of those things that people should add to their holiday gift list and just give to people who have everything, bring it to the office, gift swap. It's something everybody can enjoy receiving and enjoy having out on their coffee table.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Thank you for saying that. It's great to hear.

[Nell Rilich]

I'm so glad you said exhale because I was about to say a nice deep breath, you know, just a slowing down. And that is the intention behind taking up worthy offline and putting it into a book is that you don't have a screen with this. You're not subject to the powerful almighty blue light.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah.

[Nell Rilich]

And I think in an era characterized by speed and productivity, these stories in this book is meant to have you like take a step back, put the phone down for a second and just breathe. Like, take in the stories. It doesn't have to be power all the way through. They're meant to be consumed. You know, they're pretty bite sized, so to speak. So you can read a few, a couple. Put it down, pick it up, whatever it is. Coffee table book. But I do think it will afford people the opportunity to choose something else, which is to just sort of like be present in this moment and then you can go back on your phone later and doom. Scroll. I'm just kidding.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, I think there's something we're all looking for right now, which is just a little bit of space for kind of restorative calm. However we may get that. And for better or worse, our phones are not providing that it's not a window into it. And books have always done that. There's a special feeling that comes with spending some time on a page. And even if it's just a minute or two just to read something before you go to bed or before you get up and, you know, start your routine in the morning, we have so many people who have said like, this has Become kind of a ritual for me to read this and to engage with it that way. And it's helping me end my days or start it in a better way. And that's been fantastic to see. And I think the reason it works is because there is a truth to these stories and what people are dealing with, how they're getting through it with the help of other folks, the unexpected kindness, the people in big ways and small that have stepped up, that when you read about it, it stays with you. And it stays with you in a way that the outraged du jour or even a funny meme might not. Right. We call it the upworthy feeling on our Instagram page. It's kind of hard to describe, but just that, like, oh, this is good, this is nice. But it feels honest and real and different, and it's elev. I think scientists use that term like elevated feeling. And the goal was to take that, to synthesize it in as strong a form as possible for this book so people could take it in an offline format and carry that feeling with them out into the world. And it's funny, you know, you don't necessarily expect that it's going to work. You've gone through the process, right. With your number one bestselling book now. Congratulations.

[Lucia Rilich]

Thank you.

[Gabriel Rilich]

And you have these ambitions. You're like, is this going to work, though? Are people going to respond to it? You have that kind of fear voice in there. Totally. Oh, people are. It's just going to be dismissed. You know, no one's going to act, actually walk away with what we're hoping that they will. And then to see that, wow, it is working and people are feeling this way has been such a wonderful validation that I think deep down we are really looking for this as a society.

[Lucia Rilich]

Yeah. And I appreciate that. The stories in this book are bite size. You know, like you mentioned, the shortening adult attention span. Even aside from that, it can be difficult to be like, and now I'm gonna start this book. You know what I mean?

[Gabriel Rilich]

Right?

[Nell Rilich]

Yeah, totally.

[Lucia Rilich]

When we all have busy lives and we all have a million things we want to read and do and hobbies we want pursue and all these kinds of things. And that's part of what makes this book really accessible, is that it does not require you to sit down and, like, start and end it. You can literally just flip through the pages and read at any point in the book. And each of these stories will take you five minutes or less, in my opinion, to read. They're great. When you're Just like sitting down with a cup of coffee in the morning. Or like you were just saying, Gabe, like a way to end your day on a way that is not like. And the entire rainforest burned down today and all the sloths are dead. You know what I mean? That's not. That's not bad.

[Nell Rilich]

Bummer.

[Lucia Rilich]

I know.

[Gabriel Rilich]

And you know, to that point, the reason it matters is because if you are ending your days or starting it just with an inundation like open up Apple News or Google News or whatever it may be right now, and it is rough out there, brutal. And it's not to say that there aren't difficult things, there absolutely are. But the problem begins when you're just inundated with this, right? And then you kind of get ground down and you lose the motivation to make change, to fight for a better world, because you're like, wow, things are so bad. What am I supposed to even do? And that's why I think this counternarrative is so important. Because if we are to kind of engage with the very real problems in the world of which there are many, we need to come from a place of feeling energized and believing in each other and believing that a better world is possible. Because then I think we'll have a higher probability of kind of solving some of these extraordinary difficulties that we're faced with. And that doesn't mean, like, you know, you're sitting there and you're coming up with a systemic solution to the biggest problems in the world. It could mean that there is a shift in how we treat each other in the real world at a very small scale. It's one of the few things that we have control over how we interact with people, how we treat people. This book is a reminder of that control that we have and how a little thing that we do for someone can stay with them forever, change their perspective on everything. And it can change your perspective and, you know, may seem like a small thing, but doing that at scale, where people start behaving in a kinder, more compassionate way at scale, like, well, then maybe we have a much better chance of creating a much better world for everyone.

[Nell Rilich]

A lot of stories in this book are from things that happened to people 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and there's a reason for that. These memories stick with you. Even something, to Gabe's point, that feels like an innocuous gesture, like picking up something someone dropped, you have no idea. It could turn someone's day around. It could change the way they view people. It could happen at a moment when they really needed it. And so I like to think that this book will have that impact on someone to sort of go out and be that person for other people.

[Cindy Ettler]

When it comes to hiring, don't search for great talent, Match with them thanks to Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data, and a matching engine that helps you find qualified candidates fast. And Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. 93% of employers agree Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites, according to a recent Indeed survey, leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day. Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences, so the more you use Indeed the better it gets. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast fast. Just go to indeed.com listen right now and listeners of this show will get a 75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility, go to indeed.com listen and tell them you heard about them from this podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

[Nourish]

I've been working with a nurse dietitian for the last six months and it's been life changing. I've lost weight, healed my relationship with food, and have way more energy. Working with a dietitian online to create a personalized nutrition plan was so easy thanks to Nourish. The best part? I pay $0 out of pocket because Nourish accepts hundreds of insurance plans, 94% of patients pay $0 out of pocket. Find your [e-mail] that's usenourish.com it's the.

[DSW]

Monday you've been waiting for. DSW's Cyber Monday sale is happening now at DSW.com today only. Save 35% on almost everything online. Score the best deals of the year on must have shoes, giftable bags, and cozy extras for everyone on your list, including you. Don't miss out. Save 35% online only at dsw.com today. Exclusions apply. [e-mail].

[Lucia Rilich]

You know, there's this person who's a public speaker whose work has been featured in another book that I read, who was a adolescent boy who had decided essentially, effort, I'm going to shoot up my school. And he was going to commit suicide at the end of all of it. And he had made all of the plans and had intended to do it the next day, which was his birthday. And the night before his birthday, his acquaintance's mom heard it was his birthday and baked him a pie and invited him over. And he describes that moment of somebody he didn't know particularly well, like he didn't know this boy's mom. Baking him a pie changed his perspective and he changed his mind on what he was going to do. And that's not to say that every positive story has that dramatic of an effect, but it does go to show that you just do not know. You don't know what your small gesture for another person is going to do. You don't know what giving them a little tiny spot of hope for the future is going to mean for the course of history. You just don't know. And it is an arrogance to presume. It's an arrogance and a confidence and viewing the world in a certain way that, like, what I do doesn't matter. That actually is a confidence in a negative view of the future. You're so confident that the future is doomed that you believe that what you do doesn't matter, when the world is actually full of the exact opposite. Shows us literally every day that what we do does in fact matter. And you don't always know all of the ways in which it matters. Like that janitor in the airport, he probably didn't think that someday I'm going to be in a book and that person who was in the army remembered me forever. And maybe that person in the army rescued a child on a mission.

[Sharon McMahon]

You know, like you just don't know.

[Lucia Rilich]

You don't know what the long term effects of your actions are going to be, but there will be long term effects. And so you get to choose how you want to interact with the world, whether you want to be a positive force for good, or whether you want to spend your one wild and precious life arguing with strangers in the comment section.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, that is so wonderfully said. And what a wonderfully empowering thing totally to know, right?

[Lucia Rilich]

Yes.

[Gabriel Rilich]

In an age where we have given up so much agency and control over our time and our thoughts and these windows and portals in which information is fed to us and you know, the algorithm makes up a decision of who you are and what you want to see and what you want to do. Right. You don't necessarily have as much control over that as you may think, but you do in terms of the actions that you carry out into the real world and the effects and the stakes could not be higher. It may seem like a small thing, but like you're saying, it can have incredibly huge results and implications on a small scale for one person or a butterfly effect throughout time and among people. And So I love knowing that because it colors your interactions with the world and with people in a different light and it lets you know that like, okay, well, when I'm talking to someone or when I'm doing something for someone in the real world, there is no algorithm telling me how to do this. There is no politician saying this is what's right or wrong or what you have to do in this moment. There is no talking head on the news, popping in and being like, here's what this person is like, here's what what they think, you know, it's just you and another human being in a moment in time. And I love the implications of that.

[Nell Rilich]

I also think there's something to be said too about how you can apply these principles to yourself. Also, we could do a whole other episode on mental health and social media, mental health and the Internet. Like, please believe between comparison culture and addiction to screens and social media and the like and, and being able to take away some of the lessons of this book about, you know, the agency you have over the way you treat yourself or even behaviorally of like taking a break from screens for a little or setting boundaries with social media and how it makes you feel without anyone else having to tell you, like what works for them. Yeah, it's helpful. I think it's another thing to consider as you're engaging in our book, your book or anyone else's book, really.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah.

[Lucia Rilich]

I love the idea that all of us doing something small has a much bigger effect than like five people trying to save the world, right?

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah.

[Lucia Rilich]

Like five people trying to save the world can be discredited, a scandal from their past can be dug up, one of them can die. You know what I mean? Like those five people can be knocked down off of their pedestal quite easily. But all of us doing something small is a tidal wave that cannot be held back. So this idea that like each one of us is meant to change the world, I think we focus so greatly on changing the world that it, we allow it to paralyze us. Like, listen, I work in an insurance office. How am I supposed to change the world? I teach preschool, I'm in charge of 123 year olds. How am I changing the world? When in reality humans have never, throughout all of history, they have never, unless they are truly have dictatorial aspirations, never thought to themselves. It's my job to change the world at large. Like I need to personally impact people on the other side of the globe. People have always acted within their own spheres of influence, within their own communities. If changing the world seems too big, then you need to redefine what community means means to you. Maybe it's your town, maybe it's your library, maybe it's your workplace, maybe it's the school that you attend, it's your classroom. It could even mean your family or your neighbor. If the problems seem too big, then you need to right size the problem to be in proportion to your sphere of influence. And as people who have millions and millions of followers on the Internet and a best selling book, your sphere of influence is by definition different than somebody else who literally gave birth, you know, yesterday, and also as a two year old at home. That's just how, how it's designed to work. Right. Like that does not mean that the person with a smaller sphere of influence is less than, is less important, is doing it wrong. And I think it helps us all to remember that it's not our job to solve all of the world's problems. The weight of the world is not on our shoulders, but neither does it absolve us from all responsibility. Right. Like we need to right size how we are viewing what it means to impact people 100%.

[Nell Rilich]

And I think Upworthy is a case study and an example that people actually reward and love stories about the everyday people. Our whole page is about the micro moments of like, my daughter left my postman a note in the mailbox and I had no idea. And they've been going back and forth and it's hard. Or they've been playing tic tac toe, something like that. And that'll get like 500,000 likes, you know, something like cuckoo bananas. And so it's this beautiful thing, like just scrolling on the page and being able to see. It's like there's the proof that those are the things that now have impacted and rippled out onto millions of people.

[Lucia Rilich]

Right.

[Nell Rilich]

Because it's inherently engaging, it's inherently relatable. And that's the difference is that it's not some figure that's speaking down or condescending in some way. It's like, oh my God, my dad made it un upworthy or my neighbor made it un upworthy. Because they're just people.

[Lucia Rilich]

Yeah. Look at how much people love humans of New York. It's not wealthy and powerful socialites of New York. You know what I mean?

[Nell Rilich]

Sure, there are a few sprinkled in.

[Lucia Rilich]

Yeah. But you know what I mean? People love it that it's like a person on a park bench.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah.

[Nell Rilich]

Yes.

[Lucia Rilich]

And you get to hear the person on the park bench's story and that is the appeal. It's not Rudy Giuliani of New York. We've heard enough of that.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Yeah, well, you know, it's honest, right?

[Lucia Rilich]

Right.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Like Brandon's stories on humans in New York, they're honest. And it's an opportunity for people to be honest and truthful about their stories and themselves and what matters to us. And I think that is what we're so hungry for right now is just like a bit of truth, a bit of honesty in emotional honesty, literal honesty. Right. And I think when people take the opportunity to be honest about their lives, the people that matter to them, I think, think folks really appreciate that because there's a hunger for it right now. And I'm really proud that we've created a hub, a place that people can go to see that kind of emotional honesty and that this book serves as kind of a compendium of that feeling of human truthfulness. It's a feeling like no other.

[Lucia Rilich]

What do you hope that the reader takes away and like tucks into their pocket and carries with them moving forward? What is it that you hope the takeaway is from your book?

[Gabriel Rilich]

Well, one of the things that I think about a lot and you know, going through this process, it's hard to be like, oh, I wonder what the science and you know, is there anything that backs up why this matters? One of the interesting things that we learned along the way is the ripple effect, right, of human decency and who it benefits and how it benefits them. And we call it the triple ripple effect, you know, in the sense that doing something for someone else, it obviously benefits the person if they're accepting of that help at the right time makes them feel better. It makes you feel better, right? It raises levels of oxytocin as things that have been studied in different clinical trials. But the really curious thing that happens is that just by observing, you know, if you're out there in the world, right, and you see something good happen, you're not even a part of it, you're just an observer that it has a lasting and elevating effect on you. So the hope for me is that this book serves as an opportunity to be placed into that position as an observer of decency in the world. And that feeling that you would get from observing goodness is something that you take away from these stories, whether you read one, whether you read the whole thing, however you use it. And then when you have that feeling that you carry it with you into the world. Because I think it's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If we think that people are bad. If we think that everything is bad and we carry that feeling with us out into the world, then we're more likely to have interactions that are self reinforcing and to create that world in the process. But if we allow ourselves to have a bit of a, you know, a softer interaction with people, to see the decency and to have more of those interactions, be more willing to help someone out, to give them the benefit of the doubt. And there's lots of stories like that about people being given the benefit of the doubt at the right time, then it's a different sort of self fulfilling prophecy. That kind of kindness extends and it grows and it can have the chance to, you know, help us kind of create the world that we want to see, which is one where people treat each other well. And so that's my ultimate hope for this. And it might be, you know, this might display one tiny little piece of that. And if it does, even for one person, then I consider it a giant success.

[Nell Rilich]

I have three. One is, you know, when we debuted on the New York Times bestseller list, we were listed in the category of nonfiction, which was the greatest accolade for us. Because the stories in this book are true, they're real. They're not from some fantasy world. They are from our world. And so my hope is that this book will help people understand that there are possibilities for a better world and that they already exist within this one. It's just a matter of building them, number one. Number two, don't overlook the small things as we just talked about. I think there's some myth that in order to change someone's life, it needs to be some grandiose gesture over the top that requires a lot of energy or time or money. But as we just talked about, it could be something as simple as just smiling at someone on the street, and you have no idea how it'll impact them for the rest of the day. You know, not to be like, weird about it, like, we're not saying overdo it, like walk around with a huge grin on your face all the time, but just at moments that feel natural and moments that come naturally to you, maybe let that out instead of like holding that close to your chest, which our society sometimes pushes us to do. And lastly, take a moment to just slow down and take a moment to find that sense of peace and calm so that when you do wake up in the morning, instead of wanting to stay under the covers, you want to get up and move from a place, place of empathy and centeredness and energy to go out and solve the problems that we all need to be solving.

[Lucia Rilich]

I love that. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about before we sign off for today?

[Gabriel Rilich]

Nothing for me. I mean, what a lovely conversation and I'm so appreciative of you've given us the opportunity to talk about this because not everybody wants to have the conversation about the good stuff happening out there and why it matters. I had an op ed that was rejected for being, quote, too optimistic. So that's another story for another time.

[Nell Rilich]

No comment.

[Gabriel Rilich]

I won't say the outlet, but you know who you are.

[Nell Rilich]

Yeah, stop.

[Gabriel Rilich]

But it matters, you know, to have reach in an audience and to just use it occasionally to remind people about this. You don't have to do it all the time. You don't have to be upworthy and, you know, make that your life's mission. But it's really nice to get the opportunity to talk about this. So thank you.

[Nell Rilich]

You.

[Lucia Rilich]

Oh no, it's my pleasure. I appreciate you making time for me today.

[Gabriel Rilich]

And I suppose I would be remiss if I didn't say, you know, the book is upworthy. Good People Stories from the Best of Humanity. It is available everywhere that books are sold or, you know, pick it up at your library.

[Lucia Rilich]

Thank you so much for your time.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Sharon McMahon]

You can buy good people wherever you buy your books. If you want to support your local bookshop, head to yours or you can go to bookshop. I'll see you again soon. Thank you so much for listening to here's where it gets interesting. If you enjoyed today's episode, would you consider sharing or subscribing to this show that helps podcasters out so much? I'm your host and executive producer Sharon McMahon. Our supervising producer is Melanie Buck Parks and our audio producer is Craig Thompson. We'll see you soon.

[DSW]

Looking to get a new winter coat, purchase a new laptop, or even upgrading your old phone? Introducing Klarna, your smarter everyday spending partner. Klarna has shopping tools like Search and Compare, a new cash back feature making it easier to spend smarter and pay in four where your purchase is split into four interest free payments. Choose Klarna at your favorite retailers or shop [e-mail] pursuant to a California Finance.

[Gabriel Rilich]

Law License MLS Number 1353190 Clara Balance Account required Commission limitations terms and conditions apply.