Podcast Summary: "John Lewis a Life"

Podcast Title: Here's Where It Gets Interesting
Host: Sharon McMahon
Guest: David Greenberg
Episode: John Lewis a Life
Release Date: October 28, 2024

In this compelling episode of Here's Where It Gets Interesting, host Sharon McMahon engages in an in-depth conversation with historian and author David Greenberg about his latest book, "John Lewis A Life." The discussion delves into the life, legacy, and enduring influence of John Lewis, a pivotal figure in the American civil rights movement and a revered congressman.

Introduction to John Lewis

Sharon McMahon kicks off the episode by expressing her enthusiasm for David Greenberg’s new book, highlighting John Lewis as a transformational figure whose story deserves broader recognition.

Sharon McMahon [02:10]:
"If you've never heard of John Lewis before, sit tight because you're about to. Let's dive in."

David Greenberg provides a comprehensive overview of John Lewis, emphasizing his role as a central figure in the 1960s civil rights movement and his subsequent decades-long career in Congress.

David Greenberg [02:36]:
"John Lewis was one of the great political figures of our times... He was a truly courageous and heroic figure in the 1960s... to rise to such heights and influence is really an astounding story."

John Lewis's Early Motivations

McMahon probes into what drove John Lewis from a teenager willing to risk his life for equality to a leader of the civil rights movement.

Sharon McMahon [05:15]:
"What is the animating force behind his early career in the civil rights movement?"

Greenberg explains that Lewis's sense of moral conviction against segregation and his upbringing in poverty fueled his dedication. Influenced by Martin Luther King Jr., Lewis embraced nonviolence and collective action.

David Greenberg [05:20]:
"From even a very young age, he had a real sense of conviction that the system of formalized segregation in the south was just morally and ethically wrong... He just, from an early age, was determined to try to fix the system."

Researching the Biography

Sharon McMahon delves into the extensive research David Greenberg undertook to craft the biography, highlighting the depth and originality of his work.

Sharon McMahon [11:56]:
"Tell me what yours is."

Greenberg describes interviewing nearly 300 individuals, including prominent figures like President Clinton and President Obama, and accessing previously untapped archival materials and oral histories. The author recounts obtaining a vast collection of documents from a fellow historian, Archie Allen, which significantly enriched his research.

David Greenberg [13:53]:
"I was able to get close to John Lewis through both the documents and the interviews in a way that I think I'd never really gotten this deep with any historical figure I'd studied."

John Lewis in Congress

The conversation transitions to John Lewis's political career, exploring his initial years in Congress and how he began to leave his mark.

Sharon McMahon [24:19]:
"Why doesn't he want to simply live a quiet life? What makes him want to subject himself to Washington, DC?"

Greenberg explains that Lewis viewed politics as the next frontier for advancing civil rights, influenced by mentors like Bayard Rustin and supported by his wife, Lillian Lewis, who encouraged him to pursue higher office.

David Greenberg [24:30]:
"He saw politics as where you could get your hands on the levers of power to make changes."

Lewis strategically joined committees like Transportation and Interior, using his position to influence significant projects and preserve civil rights legacies, such as making the Selma to Montgomery trail a national park.

Becoming the Conscience of Congress

The discussion highlights how John Lewis evolved into a moral authority within Congress, earning respect from colleagues across the political spectrum.

Sharon McMahon [29:26]:
"How does he evolve to become the conscience of the United States Congress?"

Greenberg notes Lewis's balanced approach of unwavering moral integrity coupled with political pragmatism. Lewis was both a principled advocate for nonviolence and an adept politician who knew when to compromise for greater good.

David Greenberg [29:42]:
"He really genuinely took his time and put in a lot of rumination in making big decisions... he also could be political. He believed in winning."

A poignant moment discussed is Lewis’s response to resistance against the Voting Rights Act, where he passionately defended its necessity on the House floor.

David Greenberg [35:12]:
"He puts up huge blow-up photos that he kept around the office, placards of him being beaten by troopers at Selma, and lectures his colleagues about why we still need the Voting Rights Act." [35:12]

Legacy and Impact

Sharon McMahon reflects on John Lewis's enduring legacy, particularly his efforts to preserve civil rights achievements and inspire future generations.

Sharon McMahon [33:40]:
"We think about civil rights marches and we don't realize that John Lewis literally just died in 2020... Congress is still refusing to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act."

Greenberg shares intimate accounts of Lewis’s resilience, even in the face of terminal cancer, demonstrating his unwavering commitment to the struggle for equality.

David Greenberg [35:52]:
"He imagined himself continuing the fight... He really didn't get back to Congress much, but he did get to the House floor, showing his dedication until the very end."

David Greenberg's Motivation

McMahon asks Greenberg why he chose John Lewis as the subject of his biography, given the multitude of influential historical figures.

Sharon McMahon [42:24]:
"Why John Lewis out of all the people you could have researched?"

Greenberg responds that amidst the political turmoil of the Trump administration, he sought to highlight a figure embodying the principles of racial equality and nonviolence. He saw Lewis as a counterbalance to the divisive politics of the time.

David Greenberg [42:33]:
"I thought this would be a way to do a biography of a very important, influential historical figure to grapple with these questions of race and racial equality."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Greenberg shares his aspirations for readers, hoping they gain a profound appreciation for John Lewis's multifaceted legacy and are inspired to uphold his vision of a beloved community.

David Greenberg [44:30]:
"I want them to remember John Lewis and take the measure of this man... The ideals that he fought for, nonviolence and integration, that vision has kind of fallen on hard times. If his legacy can help keep it alive, that would be wonderful."

Sharon McMahon concludes by emphasizing the importance of recognizing and honoring John Lewis's contributions to American history and civil rights.

Sharon McMahon [46:43]:
"Racism and bigotry do not just impact the community that is being targeted; it negatively impacts all of us. And I think he saw that absolutely."

David Greenberg reinforces John Lewis's inclusive vision, highlighting his belief in a shared humanity that transcends political differences.

David Greenberg [46:07]:
"John Lewis saw his fight as fighting for all of America and for all of us globally. He became a light and a beacon in many other countries too."

Key Takeaways:

• John Lewis's Dual Legacy: As a fearless civil rights leader and a dedicated congressman, Lewis's impact spans grassroots activism and national legislation.

• Moral Integrity in Politics: Lewis exemplified how steadfast moral principles can coexist with political pragmatism, earning him respect from diverse political allies and adversaries.

• Enduring Inspiration: Lewis's life underscores the power of nonviolence, forgiveness, and the collective effort required to effect meaningful social change.

• Comprehensive Research: David Greenberg's biography benefits from extensive interviews and newly accessed archival materials, offering a nuanced portrayal of Lewis's life and character.

This episode serves as a profound homage to John Lewis, encouraging listeners to reflect on his enduring influence and the ongoing quest for equality and justice in America.