**Podcast Summary: "The Hate Next Door with Matt and Tawni Browning"
Podcast Title: Here's Where It Gets Interesting
Host: Sharon McMahon
Episode Title: The Hate Next Door with Matson and Tawni Browning
Release Date: June 23, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Here's Where It Gets Interesting," host Sharon McMahon engages in a profound conversation with Matt and Tawni Browning, authors of the eye-opening book "The Hate Next Door: Undercover within the New Face of White Supremacy." The Browns share their harrowing yet enlightening experiences infiltrating hate groups in the United States, shedding light on the persistent and evolving nature of white supremacist organizations.

Background and Motivation

Sharon McMahon opens the discussion by highlighting the Browns' extensive undercover work within hate groups, emphasizing the timeliness and importance of their insights.

[03:26] Sharon McMahon:
"My guest is somebody who spent decades working undercover in hate groups in the United States and this is a very eye-opening conversation and honestly, it's really timely."

Matt Browning recounts his transition from the gang unit in Mesa to undercover operations within skinhead groups, driven by a pivotal moment when he was targeted by a skinhead, revealing the personal stake he developed in combating hate.

[04:19] Matt Browning:
"It was really personal."

Tawni Browning adds depth to the narrative by expressing her initial naivety about the existence of such hate within their community, underscoring the stark contrast between their loving upbringing and the reality of widespread animosity toward people of color.

[05:30] Tawni Browning:
"I didn't know this existed. I know that's naive, but I really didn't know that there was such animosity towards people of color, because that's just not the way we were raised."

Rise and Evolution of Hate Groups

The Browns delve into the resurgence and transformation of hate groups, highlighting that these organizations are far from relics of the past. Instead, they have adapted, becoming more mainstream and infiltrating various societal sectors.

Matt Browning discusses how hate has always been present and is perpetuated by personal choices to embrace or reject hate. He explains the evolution from street-level skinheads to more organized and influential groups like the Aryan Nations and the Ku Klux Klan.

[08:59] Matt Browning:
"And from there it just goes up and up and up, you know, from your organized group. The problem with today... it's not boots and braces anymore, is khakis and camels. It's not getting kicked out of high school for fighting, is going to colleges and universities and protesting and fighting with protesters and everything that has to do with that."

Tawni Browning expresses concern over the mainstreaming of hate, noting its presence in everyday settings like local stores and restaurants, making it a normalized threat within communities.

[30:33] Tawni Browning:
"And what was so shocking to me is that some of these groups were planning international war."

Impact on Mental Health and the Necessity for Support

The conversation shifts to the psychological toll of working undercover within hate groups, emphasizing the need for mental health support among law enforcement officers.

Matt Browning describes the mental strain of compartmentalizing his undercover persona from his loving home life. He shares strategies he and his wife employed to decompress and maintain his mental well-being.

[15:30] Matt Browning:
"I was blessed and lucky because Tawni would come outside and she would help me go through what I needed to talk about... it was a way to get back into reality."

Sharon McMahon and Tawni Browning further discuss the broader issue of mental health in law enforcement, advocating for better support systems to prevent officers from succumbing to trauma, which can lead to dangerous outcomes like suicide or radicalization.

[24:56] Tawni Browning:
"We need to realize that our brains are not wired to go from one traumatic event to another and that we... we've got to have compassion and know that, as Matt said, cops aren't robots."

[26:23] Matt Browning:
"A person's traumas and what happens to a person on a daily basis is one of those things that can guide them into belonging and being a part of a hate group."

Strategies for Preventing Radicalization of Youth

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on how to safeguard children from being drawn into hate groups. The Browns emphasize the importance of inclusion, understanding, and open communication within families and communities.

Tawni Browning shares their approach to raising children in an inclusive environment, where diversity is celebrated, and all races and nationalities are welcomed.

[38:41] Tawni Browning:
"We had everyone, all races and nationalities at this house. It was never an issue. It's just inclusion."

Matt Browning provides an example of fostering unity through their son's high school football team, where diverse backgrounds were embraced to build a strong, cohesive team.

[41:02] Matt Browning:
"We have kids that are football players. And one of our sons played football last year in high school and his team took state... they were sitting in this room together. That's what we need to do in our homes and in our societies, in our politics."

The Browns advocate for creating safe spaces and encouraging conversations that promote understanding and acceptance, thereby inoculating children against the allure of hate groups.

Objectives and Goals of Their Book

The Browns outline their primary objectives in writing "The Hate Next Door," which include raising awareness, fostering communication, and providing hope to those affected by hate groups.

Matt Browning emphasizes the importance of exposing hate to diminish its influence and urges readers to engage in conversations that can dismantle hateful ideologies.

[50:08] Matt Browning:
"I hope people share it and talk about it and start that line of communication. I hope that these are all big hopes. But I hope college professors in psychology and criminology read the book and say, okay, what can we do to make a difference in these hate groups."

Tawni Browning echoes the sentiment, highlighting the book's role in assuring families and law enforcement that they are not alone in their struggles against hate.

[49:40] Tawni Browning:
"I didn't want anybody to feel alone. I didn't want a mother whose son or daughter was involved in these groups to feel like there wasn't a way out."

Conclusion

Sharon McMahon wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to explore Matt and Tawni Browning's book for a deeper understanding of America's hate groups and the personal courage required to confront them. The Browns leave listeners with a powerful message: love is the antidote to hate, and proactive, compassionate engagement is essential in building a more inclusive and understanding society.

[27:52] Tawny Browning:
"We wrote the book because love is the antidote to hate. It really is."

[51:02] Matt Browning:
"The only way to get rid of the hate is to expose it, to talk about it, and then we can get rid of it."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Matt Browning [04:19]:
  "It was really personal."

• Tawni Browning [05:30]:
  "I didn't know this existed. I know that's naive, but I really didn't know that there was such animosity towards people of color, because that's just not the way we were raised."

• Matt Browning [08:59]:
  "It's not boots and braces anymore, is khakis and camels... it's to colleges and universities and protesting."

• Tawni Browning [38:41]:
  "We had everyone, all races and nationalities at this house. It was never an issue. It's just inclusion."

• Matt Browning [41:02]:
  "If a football team could do it on a high school level, why can't we do it in our homes, in a community?"

• Tawni Browning [49:40]:
  "I didn't want anybody to feel alone... there's something we can all do to fight hate."

Additional Resources

For more insights and to support the Browns' mission, listeners are encouraged to purchase their book "The Hate Next Door" and visit their website matandtani.com for updates on their initiatives.

Note: This summary excludes advertisement sections interspersed within the episode transcript, focusing solely on the substantive conversations between Sharon McMahon, Matt Browning, and Tawni Browning.