#420: Do it for the Anagram w/ Amal El-Mohtar

Summary

Hey Riddle Riddle #420: "Do it for the Anagram" w/ Amal El-Mohtar

Release Date: August 5, 2026
Guest: Amal El-Mohtar
Main Theme: Time travel, riddles, anagrams, and the delightfully convoluted world of puzzles—with a focus on personal stories and playful scene work

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes acclaimed author Amal El-Mohtar (This Is How You Lose the Time War) to join hosts Adal Rifai, Erin Keefe, and John Patrick Cohen for classic Hey Riddle Riddle antics. Together, they dive into riddles, the joys and perils of time travel stories, literary references, the charm (and chaos) of anagrams, and improv scenes inspired by the riddles themselves. Amal's passion for puzzles and stories brings out both the earnest and the absurd in her hosts, with plenty of hilarity and surprising depth along the way.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Christopher Nolan, Tenet, and Time Travel (00:36–08:53)

• Tenet Confusion: The hosts start with a chaotic recitation of classic riddle punchlines, then segue into Tenet discourse—JPC (John Patrick Cohen) saw the film recently and found it impenetrable and frustrating.
  • Quote: "At the end of Tenet, my wife went online to read about Tenet... I said, no, I have zero questions. I never want to think about Tenet ever again." — JPC (02:23)
• Amal’s Credentials: Amal jokes about being a "time travel expert” (03:28) and admits she hasn't seen Tenet but loves retellings of Greek myths (“The Odyssey,” “Hadestown,” and the canceled Netflix series “Chaos” get shout-outs).

2. Storytelling, Greek Myth, and Film (03:53–06:52)

• Nuanced Take on The Odyssey: Amal discusses her complicated feelings about the film—how complaints about its "wokeness" miss the point, and how a late conversation between Odysseus and Penelope changed her read of the whole story.
  • Quote: "It's like the film, the whole film, is like you've been slowly straining to pull back a bow string until..." — Amal (06:13)

3. Writing Time Travel: “This Is How You Lose the Time War” (07:19–10:06)

• Research Approach: Amal explains she and co-author Max Gladstone didn’t need fresh research; their background in sci-fi meant they already knew the time-travel tropes and mechanics.
  • Quote: "Are we doing grandfather paradoxes or not? Ted Chiang exists and is God of the genre..." — Amal (08:41)
• Riddles in Books: JPC brings up riddle content in Amal’s work, sets up a meta moment about making her solve her own riddles—which she dodges with humor.

4. Personal Histories with Riddles (11:21–16:30)

• Formative Puzzle Love: Amal’s childhood was colored by games like Mind Trap (which she reads alone, marking her “progress” with a marker) and a crush on its main character, Shadow.
  • Quote: "This is all coming back. It's just so fucking sad. What I did was I sat down and read every single one of them... I kind of had a crush on Shadow." — Amal (13:46)
• First Literary Riddles: The riddles in The Hobbit ("italicized text is the most important text!") were pivotal.
• Riddle Score: Discussion of RPGs, with Amal fondly remembering a "riddle skill" stat in Vampire: The Masquerade and the question of what her “riddle score” would be.

5. Listener Riddles & Tangents (17:16–39:16)

A. How Do You Spell Cow in 13 Letters? (17:16–24:31)

• Group brainstorms wild approaches, from writing "cow" in slow increments to filling envelopes with letters.
• Culminates in the classic riddle answer: “See O Double You” ("C O W" spelled out as S-E-E O D-O-U-B-L-E Y-O-U”).
  • Quote: "I'm mad. Mad cow." — Aaron (24:35)
• Segues into a lively discussion of anagrams using their own names (Amal’s favorites: “Amoral Hamlet” & “Ha. Lame Mortal.” at 19:46).

B. Spelling Bee Scene (24:50–28:00)

• Hosts improvise a “maximum letter” spelling bee. Standouts: Aaron attempts an endless string of H's, Adal “spells” car with a wild sequence, Amal nails “I” with “two I’s.”

C. Riddle: What Can You Hold in Your Right Hand But Not Your Left? (39:16–39:33)

• The group (correctly) answers “Your left hand,” launching a scene where Amal plays the owner of two bickering hands, with JPC and Adal voicing left and right hands, respectively (39:59–43:32).
  • Memorable moment: The left hand wants to “open a pickle jar” and “learn how to write.”

D. Riddle: What Has a Bottom at the Top? (48:53–52:33)

• Multiple attempts (duck, hat, barrel), with JPC hinting towards body parts. Eventually, “your legs” is the answer: the “bottom” (butt) is at the top.
• Leads to an improv about buying a “butt hat” (54:12–58:13), with delightfully escalating absurdity.

E. Riddle: What Tastes Better Than It Smells? (59:10–61:08)

• Answer: “tongue" (“It’s the tongue. No, it’s the tongue!”—JPC)
• Improv follows about a surreal sommelier exam with nonsensical glass labels and sensory confusion, ending with all the players realizing they’re seals at the zoo on LSD.

6. Left/Right Handedness and Bodily Weirdness (43:53–48:53)

• Amal reveals she’s right-handed except for swinging a baseball bat lefty.
• Fountain pen design for left-handed writers and the complexity of writing Arabic (right to left) bring up further ruminations.
• JPC describes a body scan revealing muscle dominance and the metaphoric resonance of “referred pain.”
  • Quote: "It's more like you're an elastic band that's been twisted on itself multiple times and is creating all these tensions..." — Amal (47:02)

7. Video Game Nostalgia (64:00–67:19)

• Discussion of obscure Flash/browser games, Final Fantasy IX save trauma, and early gaming memories.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s a lot of stuff in the Odyssey in particular that I am sort of trash for as a writer in terms of, like, how people tell stories and Framing devices and the question of, like, what even is a God is something I’m always really interested in.” — Amal (05:13)
• "This is as complicated as time travel. Rules broken. It just depends on who you're talking to. I'm gonna jinx. If I jinx with you and I say jinx... and then I say stop, and then that's how many Cokes you owe me." — Aaron (11:57)
• "There's something almost divinatory about it (anagrams) that I find really fun. My two favorites of mine were Amoral Hamlet and Ha. Lame Mortal." — Amal (19:46)
• “I unabashedly and completely earnestly love all of those things [riddles, escape rooms, puzzles].” — Amal (12:51)
• "All that comes to mind... 'I met a traveler in a desert land who said, two vast and trunkless legs of stone...' I'm just imagining these two, like, shining glutes at the top of the trunks."" — Amal (52:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:36–02:53 | Tenet confusion; setting the "time travel" theme | | 03:22–06:41 | Intro to Amal, Greek myth adaptations, and Nolan | | 07:19–10:06 | Writing time travel; Time War process; Ted Chiang | | 11:21–16:30 | Childhood riddle obsession (Mind Trap/Shadow); RPGs | | 17:16–24:31 | Listener riddle: Cow in 13 letters; anagram tangent | | 24:50–28:00 | Spelling bee improv scene | | 39:16–39:33 | Riddle: Hold in right but not left hand | | 39:59–43:32 | Bickering hands improv scene | | 48:53–52:33 | Riddle: Bottom at the top (legs); absurd hat improv | | 59:10–61:08 | Riddle: Tastes better than it smells (tongue) + scene | | 64:00–67:19 | Video game nostalgia & Final Fantasy IX trauma |

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Final Thoughts & Plugs (67:52–70:08)

• Amal’s Plugs:
  • This Is How You Lose the Time War
  • The River Has Roots (“also has riddle content!”)
  • Short story collection: Seasons of Glass and Iron
  • (Find her on social media and her website for more)
• Gumshoes & Dragons (w/ Anthony Birch): Hosts plug their other podcast and tell listeners Amal was a recent guest.
• Bonus Riddle (69:18): Adal delivers a classic Mind Trap riddle for Amal (cabin on a mountain = airplane cabin).

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Overall Tone & Language

The episode is characteristically playful, weird, nerdy, and affectionate, with a blend of earnest literary talk and deeply silly improv. Swearing is present but friendly, and nostalgia—whether for riddles, childhood games, or Final Fantasy—is worn on every sleeve.

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For First-Time Listeners

You do not need to be a riddle fanatic: the episode is as much about language, wordplay, and the neurotic joy of noticing patterns as it is about solving puzzles. Amal’s enthusiasm for stories, puzzles, and how language shapes identity infuses the entire show. The scenes are absurd and witty, often taking tangents from the riddles themselves.

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Recommended If You Like:

• Nerdy, conversational comedy
• Guest episodes that are both earnest and absurd
• Puzzle nerds, theater kids, and improv fans
• Literary sci-fi (especially about time travel/anagrams)

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End of summary. For more Hey Riddle Riddle shenanigans, support them on Patreon and check out their other shows!

Transcript

[Aaron Keefe]

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[John Patrick Cohen]

The doctor was the mother. He stood on a block of ice. Both of them were goldfish. It was the cabin of an airplane. He stabbed him with an ice and the horses deep fried eggs. Did before a riddle brist. Okay, so basically what the job is is the two of you will be. Oh, boy. Have you guys seen the movie Tenet? Christopher Nolan, one of his biggest films.

[Aaron Keefe]

I watched it out of order.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Perfect.

[Aaron Keefe]

Does that matter?

[Adel Refine]

Yes. All the deleted scenes can't matter.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yes. That's great. So you're familiar with Tenet?

[Aaron Keefe]

Yep.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay, so Aaron. And it's Aaron. You're gonna be like the

[Adel Refine]

Denzel Washington's kid.

[John Patrick Cohen]

No, we'll just have you. Is it John? There's like a middle name in there. John David Washington. You're going to be like John David Washington and then Adol, I'm saying in all aspects. Oh, yeah. What are we talking about? What are we talking about? Adol. You're gonna be like John David Washington, but on the other side of. Okay, so basically what you're gonna do is you're gonna. And then I watched Tenet last night.

[Aaron Keefe]

I was gonna ask, and it seems like, and correct me if I'm wrong, not a lot of it landed the way it should. I feel like you watched it within the last 12 hours or so and you're still pretty confused about what was happening in it and what's going on.

[John Patrick Cohen]

My wife and I watched Tenet last night. And at the end of Tenet, my wife went online to like, read about Tenet and she was like, don't you have any questions? And I said, no, I have zero questions. I never want to think about Tenet ever again. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't matter to me.

[Aaron Keefe]

Did you see it because you saw the Odyssey this weekend as well, and now you're on a Christopher Nolan kick.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I'm about to see the Odyssey and I realized that Tenet was my only Christopher Nolan blind spot. It's the only Christopher Nolan I hadn't seen. So I Was like, before I see the Odyssey, I should complete the circuit.

[Adel Refine]

Hey, jpc. Tenet. Like, you didn't. Why? In case you play that backwards. Why didn't you, like Tenet?

[John Patrick Cohen]

What could this. Okay, you know what? All this, like, forwards and backwards time travel shit is actually way too hard to explain. I've actually brought in a ringer to help explain all of this stuff. Amal Elmohtar, welcome to the show.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Hello. Thank you for having me.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Is it fair to now bill you as a time travel expert?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, my God, yeah. Absolutely. For sure. Yeah. At some point in the future, I will have become an expert. So that basically means that I'm an expert now. So.

[Aaron Keefe]

Okay, now I get it.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah. I can also be an expert about Tenet because I have not seen it and actually still don't know what it's about, but I did see the Odyssey literally yesterday.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Wow.

[Amal Elmohtar]

About it.

[Aaron Keefe]

What did you think?

[Amal Elmohtar]

I had to. I feel too earnest about it basically, to be funny about it, but I'm still thinking about it, and I don't know if it's sort of like a bad comment on the film, but what I most want to do right now is think about all the other retellings of various Greek myth that I've really loved. Like, Chaos, the TV show that was so unfairly canceled and was amazing. Or Hadestown, which I'm obsessed with.

[John Patrick Cohen]

What year was Chaos? I have, like, the Vegas Jeff Goldblum.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah, it was, like, last year or the year before. I know. I think I watched it last year. It might have come out the year before. I think it was a Netflix show, and its basic premise is, like, what if the gods were just shitty billionaires? Sort of. But, like, the resource that they're all hoarding is, like, people's souls. It just. It's really good and really moving. But the Odyssey was like. And I have seen, I think, a lot of Nolan films without, like, knowing they were Nolan films. Like, I loved Memento when I saw it. I didn't know who Christopher Nolan was when I saw it because I didn't watch movies knowing their director.

[John Patrick Cohen]

You were just a huge Jonathan Nolan fan when you saw Memento, and you were like. Because you're a writer, you love writers first.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I wish that was even the case. I was just like, movies, they just happen, and you just go and see them. People make them. No, but, yeah, I just. There's a lot of stuff in the Odyssey in particular that I am sort of trash for as a writer in terms of, like, how people tell stories and Framing devices and the question of, like, what even is a God is something I'm always really interested in. And I think I'm just thinking about it from all of those places and also from the place of how much complaint about the wokeness of it there was. And then watching it. It's so interesting to think about that. But I really just, like, my opinions sort of haven't coalesced except in the one most insufferable way that will only make sense as insufferable if you have seen the film. But it's like, for the majority of the film's runtime, I was kind of irritated by most of what I was seeing until this one crucial conversation between Odysseus and Penelope towards the end. And then it was like, oh, so it's like the film, the whole film is like you've been slowly straining to pull back a bow, string and string it until then you're to.

[John Patrick Cohen]

There's nothing that Christopher Nolan likes more than making you watch two hours of a movie before he's like, and here's what the movie's about. Yeah, okay. Thank you. Thank you, man.

[Aaron Keefe]

Thank you, Christopher.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Really good work today, Christopher.

[Aaron Keefe]

That's a really good point. Yeah, I loved it. And I'm kind of. I can't believe I loved it.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Not to talk about the Odyssey for this entire podcast because this also comes out maybe four weeks after the Odyssey has been out in theaters. But you mentioned that you never saw Tenet, which is crazy because it was probably the most viewed movie in the world earlier this year. Probably a couple. Like I said month ago, I read your excellent book. This is how you lose the time war. Right? Did I get it correct?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yes, yes.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Which did you before writing that? And I know it's. What is it? A novella? Am I supposed to say novella? I don't like to say novella because when I say Nola, it makes it seem like I didn't read a book, which I did. I read a whole book.

[Amal Elmohtar]

You did.

[John Patrick Cohen]

And you wrote a whole book.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Well, I wrote half a book. In fairness. It was like Max wrote the other half. So saying I wrote half a novella also feels like that much more of a diminished writer. But yeah, absolutely.

[John Patrick Cohen]

We'll just split the difference and we'll round up and we'll say you wrote a whole book and I read a whole book and everybody's happy.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Exactly. Sure.

[John Patrick Cohen]

But did you do any, like, did you seek out a bunch of other, like, time travel stuff in your writing and research for that or did you try to, like, avoid it so that you only had your own vision of, like, what that was?

[Amal Elmohtar]

So sort of like, splitting the middle between those things? Because Max and I are both, like, science fiction fantasy nerds. We have consumed a lot of time travel stuff, and we also think about the stuff that we've consumed a lot. So are very comfortable talking about things like. So our time travel book, is it gonna be a deterministic sort of time travel, or is it gonna be a multiversal kind of time travel? Are we doing grandfather paradoxes or are we not doing, you know, that sort of thing? But we didn't.

[John Patrick Cohen]

You couldn't know this because you haven't seen Tenet, but they talk about the grandfather paradox in Tenet a lot.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Just it's such a great term. It's so inherently funny. And also, we've seen a bunch of movies about it, and you tend to kind of sort them into that. And also, Ted Chiang exists and is God of the genre and stuff.

[Adel Refine]

Incredible short stories.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah, absolutely. And so I really don't feel like in our circles that you can really think effectively about time travel without having read Ted Chiang, who has done all the thinking that there can be done about time travel and then has expressed it in some truly magnificent short stories. So we weren't, like, doing research for the book, because the book totally happened, because we sat down together in a place with no Internet for, like, nine days and wrote most of the book in that time. And so we just had, like, the contents of our respective nerderies kind of jostling around. But we did know that, like, the general structure of the time travel that we wanted to have was there is a multiverse, like infinite timelines, blah, blah, blah, but one kind of core deterministic thing in the linear nature of it and stuff. So there's one linear part in the whole of the kind of bouncing around time and space. But, yeah,

[John Patrick Cohen]

the book is excellent. I really enjoy it. Thank you so much. But as I was reading it and I fucking. I should. I should have, like, I read it from the library, so I read it on. On my phone, but I should have taken a screenshot of it as I was reading it, because there is a section of your book where there are riddles. Now, they're not like, I. I don't want to.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Totally forgot this. I was like, oh, I wonder what we're gonna talk about on the podcast. I genuinely forgot that this is.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I couldn't. I could not remember if it was. I couldn't remember if it was your section or Max's section.

[Amal Elmohtar]

It's my section.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Your section. Okay, that referenced the riddles. And I don't want to belittle the riddles by saying that they weren't real riddles, but they were. Well, like a lot of riddles that we've done on the show, they're not real riddles. The sick, twisted part of me was like, what if we have Amal on the show and I make her answer the riddles that she wrote for her own book? But then I was like, no, what are you doing? That's like a. That's not a fun, chill thing to do to force their riddles back into their mouth. So I won't do that. But I will ask you the question that we ask all of our guests, which is, what is your relationship with riddles, puzzles, Adol, what am I missing?

[Aaron Keefe]

Mysteries, Escape rooms.

[Adel Refine]

Problems.

[Aaron Keefe]

Jinx. Owe me a Coke. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 Cokes.

[John Patrick Cohen]

What part is that?

[Adel Refine]

I have never heard that part in my life.

[Aaron Keefe]

You've never heard that part before?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Adding, I thought, when you jinx someone, they can't talk, so how are they supposed to say stop?

[Amal Elmohtar]

That's what I thought, too.

[Aaron Keefe]

You guys don't know about that jinx thing?

[Amal Elmohtar]

I know about the jinx, but I don't know about the counting part. That's the part that, like, I thought, when you jinx, either you owe me a Coke and then that's the condition fulfilled, or you get to just dictate when they can speak again.

[Aaron Keefe]

Okay, this is as complicated as time travel. Rules broken. It just depends on who you're talking to. I'm gonna jinx. If I jinx with you and I say jinx, and then I say, owe me a Coke, and then I'm gonna Count.

[Adel Refine]

Count. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

[Aaron Keefe]

Jinx. Come on, Adol.

[John Patrick Cohen]

He didn't say jinx. He didn't say jinx.

[Aaron Keefe]

I didn't say jinx. And then you have to say stop, and then that's how many Cokes you owe me.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, see, I intuitively thought that was the amount of time Adol had to produce a Coke for you.

[Adel Refine]

Whoa.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Oh, wow.

[Aaron Keefe]

12 seconds.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah, exactly. And if you fail, then that's a. Your voice is forfeit.

[Adel Refine]

Did Coca Cola come up with this part of the gene?

[Aaron Keefe]

Oh, my God. Am I being manipulated by big companies? No. Right? No. Right.

[Adel Refine]

No.

[Amal Elmohtar]

God.

[Aaron Keefe]

Sorry to interrupt, but lateral thinking. Problems. Escape room.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Oh, yeah. The question.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, yeah. I unabashedly and completely earnestly love all of those things. I think I started. This was actually one of the delights for me when I started listening to hey Riddle Riddle was remembering that when I was a small child, I had a game called Mind Trap. Didn't you encounter this?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Amal Elmohtar]

It's like a box of a bunch of different cards with questions, teasers, like trivia, various things on them that you. Ah, you have it.

[Aaron Keefe]

That's crazy.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, my God, it is. And that is the COVID Like, that is the box that I had. It's very vintage looking.

[Adel Refine]

It's very sort of like, evocative. It's like a nightmarish mind or something.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah, yeah. It's got like a black, purple, smoky kind of thing. It's so 90s Goth somehow.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Don't let stranger things see that because they'll have a lawsuit on their hands.

[Amal Elmohtar]

So I had that. And my absolute favorite. So a thing. I don't know if I ever. This is so embarrassing to actually say. I genuinely can't remember if I ever played the game with other people because no one in my life shared my passion for riddles. All the time that I had this, I think it was given it as a birthday present and I never played it. But what I did. This is all coming back. It's just so fucking sad. What I did was I sat down and I read every single one of them. Like, I read every single card. I had a marker that I put in the box for where I was at and stuff. And so I would read them and try to guess them for myself and then like, flip them over and get the answer. But my favorite ones were the ones with Shadow, who is a character who, like, basically has almost a continuity throughout the box and he's a detective of some kind. And so a lot of the scenarios of, like, ooh, locked room mystery or whatever were the Shadow ones. And I kind of had a crush on Shadow, so cool as fuck. I just like, he was made up as fully this realized character in my head. And I was like, shadow's so cool and smart and anyway, I was very, very young when I was reading these, so it was quite formative. But the OG riddles for me were the ones in the Hobbit, and I super loved them. And I was a sucker for any italicized text in a book. Clearly the most important text, as are all the songs. And yeah, so I super love them. And I only started doing escape rooms. I want to say, like, 2016, 2017 was when I first did an escape room and also loved that. Yeah. So I just, I think, yeah, I've super loved them. There was like, to the point where I don't know if any of you guys ever played. I know obviously you play D and D now, but if in your wayward youths you ever encountered like, World of darkness, vampire, the masquerade stuff.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah. Yes.

[Amal Elmohtar]

So there were like, those were my first role playing game experiences. And the sheet, the character building sheet with its, like, abilities or like, they were called skills. Right. I think there was at some point a skill that was like, specifically for riddles. It might have just been called riddles or whatever. And as one does, like, making one's own person into a character and stuff, I was always like, oh, what would my riddle score be at? Because I love them, but how good am I at them actually? And so, yeah, I don't know. I think I have more enthusiasm than skill probably for them, but I love them unabashedly.

[John Patrick Cohen]

We should start asking people on the show what their riddle score is. I think that that's like, ooh, yeah, it's way better. It's way better than what we've been doing.

[Aaron Keefe]

But no, but your riddle score should be external. So, like ADEL and gpc. You should give me my riddle score and vice versa.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, yeah. If it has to come from internal, it can't possibly be as mean as we need it to be.

[Amal Elmohtar]

But yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Well, we will test your riddle score today because we have some riddles as we want to do on this show, and the first riddles that I have for you and for Adeline Aaron as well. You guys are welcome to participate.

[Aaron Keefe]

Thank you.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Come to us from a listener named Chloe Evans. Now, Chloe sent us something in the mail, some riddles in the mail. And Chloe says that they did not write these, but they found them. And so if these are not good, let's not blame Chloe's mind for these. These are found riddles that Chloe has sent in. Your first riddle is how do you spell cow in 13 letters? How do you spell cow in 13 letters?

[Aaron Keefe]

Okay, okay. I've been stumped.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I mean, the mean answer is to, like, find one of your enemies whose name happens to, like, have 13 letters in it.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Have 13 letters in a day.

[Aaron Keefe]

Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Let's see. Does it work for any of us?

[Amal Elmohtar]

I've never once thought to be like, how many letters are in my name?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Wait, John Cohen.

[Aaron Keefe]

8.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Patrick is P, N, T, R, I, C, K. 7.

[Amal Elmohtar]

15.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Ah, 15. Fuck. Fuck. Full name is. Full name doesn't work. Aaron Keefe. No, no, it doesn't work either.

[Adel Refine]

How do you spell cow in 13 letters?

[John Patrick Cohen]

How do you spell cow in 13 letters? This. Oh, please, Erin.

[Aaron Keefe]

Okay, so you write 13 letters, like, handwritten, like, put them in envelopes, and you just do a tiny bit of each of the word cow in each letter.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, that's it. You got it.

[Aaron Keefe]

Yeah. Right.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Well, you know what my first thought was? No, Aaron, that's not correct. But my first thought was, how do you spell cow in 13 letters? You know how. Like, there's no set. I guess it's two. Like, how many O's are in mu?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

So it's like, you could, like, cow. You know, like cow with, like 11 o's in it or something like that. That's not the answer, but that's where my brain went.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I counted the letters in my own name, and they are 12, but there's also a hyphen in my name. And if you counted that, then I guess I would have 13 letters in my name.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Great. So the answer to that riddle is we should call you a cow. That doesn't seem very satisfying to me.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That's right. Exactly. Have any of you guys ever. This is such a tangent, but have any of you ever made up, like, looked up anagrams of your name to, like, oh, Adol.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Do you want to take this one?

[Adel Refine]

I had. So I'm Adol. Shoki. Ref. And I did it sometime back, but there was something fun where it was like, something about a hawk or something. It was just. It's really delightful to be like, ooh, I didn't realize the word hawk is tucked into my name.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah.

[Amal Elmohtar]

There's something almost divinatory about it that I find really fun. My two favorites of mine were Amoral Hamlet and Ha. Lame Mortal.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Those are really good.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Thank you. I guess, if I can take any credit for it. But, yes, I enjoyed those.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, I guess. Props to whoever named you because they knew exactly what they were doing.

[Aaron Keefe]

I just put my name into a generator, and one of the first ones that came up was easier. Freethink or Freakish Teenier.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Ooh, Freakish Teenier.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Freakish. Teenier is great, actually.

[Aaron Keefe]

My alias, my pen name, I put

[John Patrick Cohen]

my name into a generator, and I got infinite free energy, which is pretty cool. Wow. Yeah. I could power an entire city.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That is such a great thing to get from something that is presumably taking up energy to produce. Incredible.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I feel like Adol, you have, like, a. Is it a secret talent? I feel like you will Often this also happens, I think, on gumshoes and dragons quite frequently. Like you will say an anagram for a villain's name and you're like, is this anything? And we're like, how did you do that?

[Adel Refine]

Yeah. If it strikes me as like, that's a specifically unusual name. Like, it doesn't feel like a. Oh, I had fun naming this. It's like I got this name for a reason. I will sit there and be like, what's going on here? But then what happens is I'm like, inevitably I go, oh, your name is an anagram for evil fishes. And everyone goes, okay. And then at the end of the thing, it's like, oh. The names I was using for the characters were all rom com names one off. And I was like, so I was on the right track. I was just. I just focused on the wrong directionally correct.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yes. I feel like I read. Oh, fuck, the Westing game. Is that.

[Aaron Keefe]

Oh, yes, I love the Westing game.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I love that.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, I read that as a child and then there was a part of me after reading that was like, never not pay attention to someone's names ever again because the names are everything. And then I proceeded to live an entire life where that wasn't so quite important.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Nominative determinism, baby.

[Aaron Keefe]

Yeah.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Is this like actually like my parents, Jen just nakedly be like, yes. The thing that my parents actually did do while they were naming not just me, but my also my three siblings. They very deliberately. So my family's from Lebanon. Lebanon has a history and present of like sectarian violence. So my parents very deliberately gave us all names that were not like easily ident viable with any particular religion. And so my name is Amal, which is like hope, but like the plural of hope. There's Amal and there's Amal. And my sister is Dunya, which means the world. My youngest brother's name is Ghaith, which is like generous rain. And my middle brother's name, which genuinely was a non sectarian name at the time of his naming, is Jihad, which has served him so well in the intervening years.

[Aaron Keefe]

But anyway, one kid being named the world is a very funny. Yeah, very different vibe.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah. But anyway, I'll just say nominative determinism. Yeah, that's a thing.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Well, I mean, we're circling it. Do you guys want me to help you out here?

[Aaron Keefe]

Yes, please.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay, so look, I like this. I like this riddle, but it's. I think it's kind of hard to get, but the way that you. I'll just give you the answer because I don't want you to.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Hang on a second. So how to spell cow in 13 letters.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, I would say maybe your hint is break down the word cow. Maybe that's the hint.

[Adel Refine]

S E, A, C, E. Oh, yeah.

[Aaron Keefe]

S E, A.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay.

[Aaron Keefe]

Oh,

[John Patrick Cohen]

you're on the right track. It's not oh, though. You don't need the oh to get to 13.

[Amal Elmohtar]

So it's literally just spelling the word cow with enough letters in it that, like, it will still sound like cow, but there will be 13 of them.

[John Patrick Cohen]

No, I will say this doesn't really sound like cow at all.

[Adel Refine]

Is the last part D, O, U, B, L, E,

[John Patrick Cohen]

U. Y O, U.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Y, O, U. Oh, my God.

[John Patrick Cohen]

The way that you spell cow in 13 letters is S E, A or S E, E, O. D, O, U, B, L, E, Y, O, U. That's C O, double Q.

[Aaron Keefe]

Well, I'm mad.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That's incredible.

[Aaron Keefe]

I'm mad.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Very good.

[Adel Refine]

Mad cow.

[Aaron Keefe]

I'm mad. Mad, mad cow.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah, we're having a cow.

[Aaron Keefe]

Can we cleanse the space with a new riddle? Open all the windows?

[John Patrick Cohen]

What we are going to do is. We're gonna do it. We're gonna do a scene. We're gonna see a scene.

[Aaron Keefe]

We're gonna have to sit in this riddle longer.

[John Patrick Cohen]

My God, Aaron, you're supposed to be the expert here. So here's what the scene is. We're gonna do a spelling bee. I'm, of course, gonna be judging the spelling bee, but it's not gonna be. And all three of you are welcome to participate. It's not gonna be normal. Spelling bee rules. You're going to be. The goal of the spelling bee is to spell. Spelling things as long as possible with as many letters as possible. Okay.

[Aaron Keefe]

All right.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Your next contestant is Aaron Keefe. Aaron, please approach. Your word is hat.

[Aaron Keefe]

Could I have a definition, please?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Hat. Something you wear on your head. Hat.

[Aaron Keefe]

Could you use it in a sentence?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Hey, there's something you wear on your head. A hat.

[Aaron Keefe]

In language of origin, a hat. There's a bee. There's a bee by my neck. There's a literal bee by my neck. And I know it seems like I'm making an excuse.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Are you? Are you. Did you start spelling?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Are you?

[Aaron Keefe]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying that there is a insect right next to my neck. And he's. He's trying to give me the answer, but I'm not listening.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay, well, even if you're not listening, it is still cheating. And so I do have to disqualify.

[Aaron Keefe]

No, no, no, wait. H u H a H H, H, H H H H H H H h T.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I'm sorry. We were looking for H A T. It was hat me up.

[Aaron Keefe]

Fuck you and your. Fuck everybody.

[Adel Refine]

You're all kids here. We're all kids.

[Aaron Keefe]

We're all kids.

[John Patrick Cohen]

We're all kids here.

[Adel Refine]

Scripts. We're all scripts.

[Aaron Keefe]

Can I go?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yes, you could go. Adel, you are next. Okay, your word is Car.

[Adel Refine]

Language of origin.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Car. Japanese.

[Adel Refine]

Could you scream the word please?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Car.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Said like people playing street hockey.

[Adel Refine]

Could you make the sound that the word makes?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Chitty chuti, bang bang.

[Adel Refine]

Car.

[Aaron Keefe]

So fucking funny.

[Adel Refine]

K H A A A B, B

[John Patrick Cohen]

A B, A B, A B. That is correct. It is K H A A A

[Adel Refine]

B, B, B, B.

[John Patrick Cohen]

That is correct. Adol, you are moving on to the semifinal. Amal, you are next. Your word is I.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Could you use it in a sentence, please?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Not this one. I. I simply don't know how.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, two.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Correct. You have two I's. And so I starts with the letter two. The number two. The number two. See, you guys are great at that.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I trained for years for this.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay, here's your next riddle. Aaron is correct. We don't have to live in that one anymore.

[Adel Refine]

I was going to ask real quick. Does anyone know what is scripts? Is that, like a company or, like a software or something?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Wasn't Scripps a pod? Didn't Scripps own some podcasts? It was a podcast company, right? No.

[Adel Refine]

Well, Scripps for Lingbee has been around for a minute, so I think it's got to be they maybe dip their toes into podcasting.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I had no idea what the reference was. I thought you were just talking about, like, scripts that were being written.

[Adel Refine]

Scripts versus Bloods.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah.

[Adel Refine]

I feel like the big one is. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought the big one was, like, called the Scripts Spelling bee, but this is nothing.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I'm not. Is that like the national spelling bee? Like, that's the. That's the.

[Adel Refine]

I thought so.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay. I'm not familiar with scripts. It's probably, like, everything where it's like, now it's just. There's four companies. It's like Unilever owns whatever it used to be, and it's, you know.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Have you played a game? There's like a. There's a game by Emily Short, who is an absolute genius, that is about a spelling bee, and it's like you are training to Be a spelling bee champion. But it's very moving and it's a very like browser game thing.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Oh, okay. Gotcha.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah. Everything I know about how spelling bees work in the US Is from this game. And it was harrowing. Like it was really. The general premise of this game is that this girl is trying to support her family or emerge from a really shitty environment by winning the spelling bee. And I don't know, I will dig it up and send it to you.

[John Patrick Cohen]

It sounds, it sounds like a wonderful game, but it also sounds to me like a Josh Safdie movie where it's like, why would I ever want to be. Why would I ever want to live in that? Like, it's like spelling. I was in spell bowl when I was in like seventh grade and it was so stressful that I'm like, I don't know that I want to do that in my leisure time. Like. Oh. Inthewalls itch.

[Amal Elmohtar]

IO yeah. The game is just called B.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Interesting. Okay, let's do one more. Let's do one more riddle real quick and then we can head to break. So your next riddle is why is like a frying pan?

[Adel Refine]

Oh. Adol because there's a little grease at the bottom.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Adel because there's grease at the bottom.

[Adel Refine]

Is it a little grease or just grease?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Wow.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Let's call it a little grease.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That's incredible.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I think a little grease is funnier.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I thought you were about, I was gonna be like, if this is actually about how climate change is making everything like 43 degrees Celsius right now, then that's real.

[Adel Refine]

The migration of the monarch butterfly has actually been affected by the.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I saw one yesterday. I was so happy.

[Adel Refine]

Ooh.

[John Patrick Cohen]

So they're doing fine. So no one worry about it. They're doing fine. Okay. We. If you've got your eyes on a butterfly, please let it write in to let us know where it is in the world. And we will see you guys all back after this brief break.

[Adel Refine]

Hey everybody. Adol here. Don't panic. I'm trying not to. The three of us were at the Cook county pie factory. I'm still here on a self guided tour of course. And JPC and Aaron leaned over a bit too far and fell into the pie vat. So they've been baked into pies. I'm trying to run around eating through the pies to find them. No such luck so far. But I do want to let you know this is stressful, of course, but one of the most stressful things we have to deal with after A busy day of recording riddles is what are we going to have for dinner? Jpc, of course, always suggests. I've got a bone to pick with you and Aaron's all We should have a bowl of contra. 45 minutes later, 2/3 of us are baked into pies. This all could have been avoided with Tempo. The meals are already prepared, ready in two minutes and make it a whole lot easier to eat fresh balanced meals during the week. With over 20 recipes every week made from nutrient rich ingredients, Tempo keeps things exciting and helps you stay consistent with healthy habits and no matter your goals, there's a Tempo meal for you. Protein packed meals with over 30 grams of protein, fiber, rich calorie, conscious gut support and even glp. One smart meals Go one I I guess is maybe how you pronounce it. Personally, I've recently had some favorites from Tempo, including the Barbecue Pulled Pork Sweet Potato Skillet, the Fiesta Grilled Chicken and Rice, and the most fun to say, the Lean and Clean Rotini Bolognese with Garlicky Broccoli. Yum yum yum. For a limited time, Tempo is offering our listeners 60% off your first box. Go to Tempo meals.com riddle that's Tempo meals.com riddle for 60% off your first box tempomeals.com riddle rules and restrictions may apply. Oh oh, I bit into a pie. It's Aaron. Oh, nope, that's a blackbird. Hmm, maybe Aaron. Oh, it is Aaron. You're free. She just flew out the window. Classic Aaron.

[John Patrick Cohen]

This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Hey Adol, Aaron, settle a bet for me. Who has the better website? Heyriddleriddle.com or gumsheesanddragons.com Ooh, he's fishing for

[Aaron Keefe]

a compliment because he created both of these websites using Squarespace.

[Adel Refine]

I don't know if that's a fair question because I feel like any website created by Squarespace.com is gonna look pretty great.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I mean, when you use Squarespace and yeah, I'm talking about the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Square gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings to the professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place, you're going to walk away with a good website.

[Aaron Keefe]

And Squarespace makes it easy to showcase your expertise and engage clients with video content on your website, upload and organize your videos, create stunning video libraries, and even monetize your content by adding a paywall. Perfect for online courses Exclusive tutorials and premium workshops.

[Adel Refine]

They also have SEO tools. Oh, wait, sorry. SEO tools get discovered fast with integrated Squarespace SEO tools. Every website is optimized to be indexed with meta descriptions, an auto generated sitemap, and more. So you show up more often on search engines and bring in more of your ideal customers.

[John Patrick Cohen]

The best thing about Squarespace, guys, is you don't have to pick. Both websites can be equally very good. And if you're on the website and you click around and something's not updated, don't send me an email. I'll probably get to it eventually, guys.

[Aaron Keefe]

By the way, jpc, there's some things on this website that I'm pretty sure you thought me and Adol weren't gonna see. I have eyes on those websites.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Kasey, let's end. Let's end the. Let's end the ad.

[Aaron Keefe]

Let's just say I have eyes on them.

[John Patrick Cohen]

We'll just say head to squarespace.com riddle for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code riddle to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Aaron Keefe]

He did our descriptions of like our bios. Adol, have you read what he wrote?

[Adel Refine]

No.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Hey everybody. JPC here. And I want to tell you about a traumatic experience that I had recently. Now, if you listen to the show, you know I'm a big foodie. I love restaurants, I love restaurateur ing, I love going out to eat. But a lot of times, because of how I am, it's hard to get a group of people to want to dine with me. So I go to a lot of restaurants solo. Now, classically, I like to go to the restaurants. I don't like to dress up. I don't like to put on airs. So I do eat at a lot of restaurants wearing a potato sack with armholes cut out and not really leg holes cut out because it's just the bottom of the sack. I guess there is a head hole for me to stick my head out of the sack, if I remember. But recently I was eating in a restaurant and they kicked me out because they didn't like the potato sack that I was wearing. I'm sorry, it's hard for me to talk about this. So I went to Quint's because Quint's is all about fewer, better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials, built to last and designed to become the ones you reach for day after day. And they will not scratch you like a potato sack. They will not hurt you like a potato sack. And they for the most part do not smell like potatoes. Quince specializes in everyday staples that work harder like their ultra soft organic cotton tees and premium Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're versatile, timeless and transition seamlessly from casual workday to dinner out. I love my Mongolian cashmere sweater that I got at Quince. I wear it whenever I have the opportunity. I am so excited for fall because I will get to fall back into that sweater. Summer's been really hard for me because I have been wearing so many potato sacks and they are scratchy and uncomfortable and you cannot buy them at Quint's. Everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen so you're paying for high quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has become my go to for everything from hotel quality bedding and bath essentials to premium cookware and travel must haves. Now I know I said they have premium cookware. Potato sacks are not cookware. I know it's because you cook and you wear it, but potato sacks are not something you will not find potato sacks at Quince do not even look. So upgrade your everyday Download the quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com riddle get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q u I n c ce.com riddle and do not mention that you used to wear potato sacks to anyone ever.

[Aaron Keefe]

Hey everybody, it's Erin. Sometimes the universe is a very funny thing. Right before I started recording this, I got an email notification from Rocket Money, an app I've been using for so long. Way before they became a sponsor of hey Riddle Riddle. I got an email from them saying that they had successfully canceled a subscription for me that I had asked them to cancel for me because I had forgotten about it. And it's just the best feeling to know that someone is looking out for you when all these other companies are trying to be predatory and take your money right under your nose. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money is a really helpful tool for my brain because it's color coded. You can set budgets for yourself and there's categories. Everything is really intuitive and easy. You can see where your money is going and you can see going to things that you've completely forgotten about. They can help you save so much money every year just by keeping you on top of your finances. Also, I've been using the automated savings tool that they have to grow towards my goals. You can set the adjustable amounts and the frequencies, and it's a set it and forget it approach. And then you go, oh, my gosh, I've saved up for that thing that I wanted or that bill I wanted to pay off. It is so intuitive, and I think you should give it a shot. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join RocketMoney.com Riddle that's RocketMoney.com Riddle RocketMoney.com Riddle R I D D L E thank you, Rocket Money. I appreciate it.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay, we're rolling right along here. We're back. We're going to do more riddles. Here's your next one. This is again another one that Chloe sent in. What can you hold in your right hand but not your left hand?

[Aaron Keefe]

What can you hold your left hand?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Aaron? That is correct.

[Aaron Keefe]

It is your left hand. I. What do I want to see? Oh, my gosh. Amel, you're going to be a person, and JPC is going to be your left hand. And I know you're gonna. And Adel, you're gonna be the right hand, and you two are kind of bickering and arguing, and you're trying to sort of get your hands to get along.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Okay, okay, so we've talked about this. Right now we're gonna use feeling words. Right?

[Adel Refine]

Strokes your chin. Strokes your chin.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That's very nice. I'm feeling great about this left hand. How are you feeling?

[John Patrick Cohen]

I'm in the pocket.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

[John Patrick Cohen]

No, no worries. It's just like, I feel like that keeps happening. Keeps happening, that I'm in the pocket and.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, hey, Larry.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Hey. Right? And old.

[Aaron Keefe]

Yeah.

[Amal Elmohtar]

This is great. This is great. I'm sorry. I take responsibility for my role in this. I think. I think I've just gotten used to needing to keep the two of you apart.

[John Patrick Cohen]

No, no, no.

[Adel Refine]

You've done nothing, Claire. You've done nothing wrong. Nothing wrong.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Well, I just. I really want to see the two of you, you know, I know you have your differences, but I really think that you, like, they can meet, you know, they can come together. You can appreciate those things together.

[John Patrick Cohen]

It's so. It's so cool to hear you say that. Do you think that maybe, like, today, if. If we're like, everything's equal and we're trying to like, you know, work together. Maybe we. Teach me how to write or. No, that's stupid.

[Amal Elmohtar]

No, we can do that. We can do that.

[John Patrick Cohen]

No, I don't need to learn how to write.

[Adel Refine]

We can do that. Let's. Hey, let's become ambidextrous at 37. That's an awesome idea. That'll be super simple and very quick.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I'm hearing some hostility from you. Write. Janelle. I think this actually could be a really great idea. Because why not? I mean.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, Right?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Why not?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah. Have there been things you've been longing to express that you feel like not being able to write has been holding you back?

[Adel Refine]

Huh? Blurry.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, I guess so. I just, like. It's just like, I just can't participate in, like, a lot of stuff that Reginald can participate in. Like, you know, like, part of writing is reading. So it's like, I know that he knows how to read and I don't. And I've always wanted to open a pickle jar. I know that's not what we're talking about, but it's just like, something that pickled you. It's just something that I've always wanted to do.

[Amal Elmohtar]

And it's also. Honestly.

[John Patrick Cohen]

No, I'm left.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Exactly.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I'm left.

[Aaron Keefe]

Scene, scene, scene, scene. Classic stuff. You can say you want to be the one to jerk off. Just say it.

[Adel Refine]

Hey, Aaron, I was thinking it.

[Aaron Keefe]

I know, I know.

[Adel Refine]

I was biting my thumb.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Is that the kind of energy that I want to bring to. We have a guest at the end of the.

[Aaron Keefe]

No, you're right, you're right, you're right.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I just love that opening a pickle jar is on par with writing. That is truly. Those two things are the same. And

[John Patrick Cohen]

if you're a hand, that's got to be like, the most important thing to you in life is opening a pickle chop fair.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Also, this is. So do you guys have things where you are. I'll just say the thing that it is for me. I am right handed in all aspects of my life except swinging a baseball bat. Weirdly, ever since I was a child, I would swing on the left. And I didn't have any cause to think about this in my adulthood until Friday, when I was unexpectedly drafted into my sister's workplace softball team. And suddenly it all came back to me. I was like, wow, I should maybe try singing. No, that doesn't work. It has to be on the line. And it's very weird. It's the only thing that's wild.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah. I don't know. I think I do most. I'm right handed and I think I do most things in a right handed way. But so much of this world is made for right handed people. And it is crazy that when you stop to think about. They sell left handed scissors.

[Aaron Keefe]

Yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

And you're like, aren't all scissors? Can't use them with both hands. And it's like, no, not really. Scissors are made to be right handed. And it's like, wow. Fuck yeah.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Writing with a fountain pen is really interesting for this too, because you can get the fountain nib ground to a different angle, specifically if you're left handed. And I don't know how this interacts with the fact that I've been thinking about this recently because my dad is not gonna listen to this, so it's not gonna give this away. But I've been wanting to get my dad a fountain pen for a milestone birthday. And he writes a lot in Arabic. And Arabic is written from right to left as opposed to from left to right. So you can get a specific grind of fountain pen nib to accommodate that. It's like the same as an architect grind. Yeah. And I just find myself going like, yeah, so if you were left handed but writing in Arabic, how would that work? And yeah, I don't know.

[Adel Refine]

Mal, can I be vulnerable with you?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Absolutely.

[Adel Refine]

Up until the age of maybe 10 or so, my dad would read the whatever newspapers in Arabic and they were backwards. And for a while I thought my dad couldn't read.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh my God.

[Adel Refine]

And I was like, this is embarrassing. Like, he clearly doesn't know what he's doing. And then at some point he was like, that's so funny. He was like, oh, let me teach you how to do this. And I was like, oh, okay, so this is legit. And I'm just.

[Aaron Keefe]

And then he's like, what? And you were like, nothing. No, you're. Of course you could read. You're my dad.

[Adel Refine]

So you saw all the notes I left.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay.

[Adel Refine]

And you and mom are getting a divorce because of the notes. Interesting. Interesting.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh my God.

[Aaron Keefe]

If anyone out there during that scene, you know what I kept thinking of is like, I want songs for musicals. And if anyone out there writes musicals, please write a song from the perspective of the non dominant hands and everything it wants to do. Open a pickle jar, sign its name, flip a coin.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I'm totally gearing it to the cadence of like the Little Mermaids. Like, look at this stuff. You know,

[John Patrick Cohen]

the year before my kid was born, I was working with a personal trainer. I was Getting in shape. A lot of good that fucking did me. But it was a fun experience. But one of the things that I did after I had been training for a few months was I got one of those like full body scans. Because you, like lay on a table, it scans your whole body and then it tells you basically your like, weight percentages of each like muscle group of your body. But you, one of the reasons why you do it is so that you know, like your dominant side.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

How much, like how much more muscle mass you have on your dominant side. So you can adjust the way that you're like working out. So, like, things become more even. And it is crazy to like have a dominant side and not like go through that in your life and being like, oh, there is like a weight, a measurable difference of like how strong, you know, my dominant side is even. And for whatever reason, I just never thought of having like a dominant leg. But I'm like, oh, yeah, of course, I'm right handed in, right legged, like I'm right footed.

[Amal Elmohtar]

This is actually. I'm such a nerd for this thing specifically. I do work with a trainer as well because I have all sorts of like lower half imbalances. And the thing that is super messed up is that there is a governing logic that makes perfect sense only if you understand everything about anatomy. So, like, there's this thing where there's a concept of referred pain, basically where you can be feeling pain in one part of your body, but that's not where the problem is. Very metaphorically resonant. So like, if you're feeling a pain in your shoulder, it might be because of something like in your lower back or various things like that. So the thing that I have had to be working on a lot is figuring out what muscle in what leg is overworking, causing a muscle in the other leg to underwork or overwork. And so you end up like this sense of your body that isn't so much split down the middle with one side stronger than the other. It's more like you're an elastic band that's been twisted on itself multiple times and is creating all of these tensions, pulling in all of these different directions. And everything that I learn about like muscle and anatomy and stuff just becomes layers and layers of metaphor for the ways in which we do and don't understand our psyche. It's so messed up and frustrating.

[Aaron Keefe]

But yeah, that's crazy.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I can tell for so long. It's ridiculous. But yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

So our bodies are basically pretzels and salt is basically Sweat. So we basically are pretzels. So if I eat a person, I'm not a cannibal.

[Aaron Keefe]

Wait a minute. No, hold on. Back up.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Wait, hold on.

[Amal Elmohtar]

But if you eat pretzel, you are a cannibal, so don't you.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I am a cannibal. Yeah. I can't eat pretzels anymore.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Don't you?

[Adel Refine]

That.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Do we. Do we want to do another riddle? This is a riddle that has something to do. Well, I'll just. I will say it transitions well.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

What has a bottom at the top? What has a bottom at the top?

[Amal Elmohtar]

A dabbling duck. I just always think about that when I watch them. Their bottoms go up.

[John Patrick Cohen]

You should not dabble. Ducks. Everyone knows leave ducks. Leave ducks alone, Guys.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Don't feed them bread.

[Aaron Keefe]

Let's badge them Midsummer Night.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Ooh.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, this bottom's gonna be on top.

[John Patrick Cohen]

What was the first scene that bottom is in? Midsummer Night's Dream. Is it at the top of the play?

[Aaron Keefe]

Yeah. Bottom opens the show, right? And it's like, hey, what's up? I'm gonna be a donkey later or something. I just want you guys don't get scared.

[John Patrick Cohen]

God, I forget that Shakespeare is such a wordsmith.

[Aaron Keefe]

You forget that Shakespeare.

[John Patrick Cohen]

What's my deal? What's my deal? What's my deal? I'm Peter Quince's friend. I will not this play. What else? What else? What else?

[Aaron Keefe]

What's my deal? What's my deal? What's my deal?

[Adel Refine]

Can you read the riddle one more time?

[John Patrick Cohen]

What has a bottom at the top? What is a bottom at the top? What has a bottom at the top?

[Aaron Keefe]

Someone like a boss.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Oh, boy. Help me with it, Aaron. In what way?

[Aaron Keefe]

Every boss has an app.

[Adel Refine]

Ass.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I'm trying to not.

[John Patrick Cohen]

This has big. Every kiss begins with Kate.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I'm trying to not answer this heated rivalry Fanfiction.

[Adel Refine]

I was gonna say, like a gay pride flip or something.

[John Patrick Cohen]

And what stopped you from saying it?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Nothing.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Nothing.

[Amal Elmohtar]

What has a bottom on the top?

[John Patrick Cohen]

What has a bottom?

[Amal Elmohtar]

I mean, a barrel. Because you can put a barrel either

[John Patrick Cohen]

way, so that is a good. A barrel. Okay, so Amal gets. You get partial credit sometimes what happens is when you get an answer that is not the one that is written down but still works, you get the rest of the riddle off. So congratulations, you don't have to do any more of this. But, yeah, it's like that. The conversation we were having right before I read this riddle feeds into it. I will say in another way.

[Aaron Keefe]

Pain.

[Adel Refine]

We're talking about your body scans.

[John Patrick Cohen]

We're Talking about bodies.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, is it.

[John Patrick Cohen]

What is the bottom of the cup?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Sorry. Oh, yeah, you don't have to.

[John Patrick Cohen]

You're off for the rest of the day. But you can if you want extra credit.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Well, I was just thinking bodies and, like a body of water, you kind of can't tell what is at the top or the bottom. Right, because it's water all the way through.

[John Patrick Cohen]

What is the bottom at the top? Yeah, because it's water all the way through. Okay, you're off twice.

[Amal Elmohtar]

If I get enough partial answers, do I get full riddle credit? This is important for my riddle score.

[John Patrick Cohen]

It's never happened before, but I don't see any reason why today can't be the day.

[Amal Elmohtar]

An inverted pyramid.

[Adel Refine]

So this has something to do with our body.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Your body? Yes. Something on your body has a bottom

[Amal Elmohtar]

up your specific body. Adol.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, geez. Can I. Do you guys mind if I turn off my camera?

[John Patrick Cohen]

I'm sorry. Yeah. Chloe's in. Chloe scented a lot of Adol's body riddles. Chloe. I gotta say, we need riddles for the show. Chloe. But this is. This is maybe a little too far. It's everyone's body. It's a part of the body that has a bottom at the top.

[Aaron Keefe]

Eyes, nose, ears, mouth, heel, toes, head, shoulders.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Where's the bottom of your body? What's another word for bottom?

[Adel Refine]

Feet.

[John Patrick Cohen]

No. In other words, butt. Butt. Abs.

[Aaron Keefe]

Yes.

[John Patrick Cohen]

So what has a bottom at the top? Your legs.

[Aaron Keefe]

Your legs.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, my God. No, don't say boo.

[John Patrick Cohen]

It's good. This is a good one. I like this one.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Bottom at the top. That's like. I. All that comes to mind this is. I met a traveler in a desert land who said, two vast and trunkless legs of stone is what comes to my mind. I'm just imagining these two, like, shining glutes at the top of the trunks. Stone.

[Aaron Keefe]

My ass is not a hat.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Is not a hat. I was thinking. I was starting to think about hats and, like, you know, just a top hat.

[John Patrick Cohen]

That's a good.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That's a good.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Let's go with that thought process. We're gonna see a scene. Adol. You are going to a haberdasher. You are. I guess a haberdasher is just clothes. Does anyone know the one that means hat? Is it hats?

[Amal Elmohtar]

I think so. I was confused. Milliner and haberdasher. But I think milliner is dresses and haberdasher is in haberdasher's hats.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I thought for some reason that haberdasher applied to all clothes. But let's. Let's.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, no, you're right. You're right.

[Adel Refine]

Let me call Paul F. Tompkins.

[John Patrick Cohen]

We need. We need. Next time we see Pauloff Tompkins, we can ask him what the one for just hats is. This is thing. I just never remember it. I know, I know that. It's not that I just don't remember what the one is. But anyway, you're going to a hat.

[Amal Elmohtar]

It is actually milliner. Sorry, I had them confused. I thought milliner was for sewing and stuff, but it might just be women's hats. I'm not sure.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Fuck. Well, this won't work. You're gonna go to the male equivalent of a milliner. Adol, a hat store. And Aaron, you're designing a hat, but Adol, you're trying to get a hat made for your butt, but you don't really want to admit that it's for your butt.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Great.

[Aaron Keefe]

Ah.

[Adel Refine]

Ring a ling. A ling. Hello.

[Aaron Keefe]

Hi. Good. I was hoping, hoping that you wouldn't be busy today. Fantastic.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, me? Are you.

[Aaron Keefe]

Oh, I see. I see. I buy Internet cutouts. No, no, no, no. Start over. Start over.

[Adel Refine]

I own a store.

[Aaron Keefe]

Okay, that was an Internet.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, my God. I own a store.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Aaron, you had a 50, 50 chance of getting it right. Let's try one more time.

[Aaron Keefe]

I'll try again.

[John Patrick Cohen]

All right. Adel, you.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Well, let's.

[Aaron Keefe]

Wait, hold on. No, because I thought I had guessed right, and then Adel did the ring a ling. A ling. Adel, that is not your fault. I just. I was having to guess. All right, guys. And here we go.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I don. I don't have a horse in this race. Who wants to be the customer? Who wants to be the person buying the hat?

[Aaron Keefe]

I want to be the hat person. I want Adel to be the customer.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay, got it.

[Aaron Keefe]

Great.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Adel, you are the customer. Aaron, you are making the hats.

[Aaron Keefe]

Oh, my goodness. Welcome in.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, thank you so much.

[Aaron Keefe]

I see a naked head ready for a hat.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, yeah. I never thought of a hatless head as being naked, but, ooh, let me cover it up with my hands. Oh, you've seen everything.

[Aaron Keefe]

Oh, no, I've seen it all. No, let me just measure this circumference. Big head, big thoughts. Let me measure this. Measure this. Now, what kind of hat would a man like you want on a day like this? Gray top hat, Sherlock Holmes thing.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, Deerstalker.

[Aaron Keefe]

Doc Holliday's hat from Tombstone.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, my. Oh, my goodness. That would be a goddamn delight. No, but think of top hat. But the inverse. Or reverse or Opposite. Let's say opposite.

[Aaron Keefe]

So the brims on the top of the top hat.

[Adel Refine]

Butt hat.

[Aaron Keefe]

What was that?

[Adel Refine]

I want. No, nay, I need a butt hat.

[Aaron Keefe]

I roll my eyes and I point to a sign that says we do not sell hats for butts.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, for 14 Reginald.

[Aaron Keefe]

There a hat salesman on this street, sir, that will fulfill your pervish request. Hats are for heads.

[Adel Refine]

Pervish.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Oi, oi, oi, mate. I heard you were looking for a specialty hat you couldn't find in a store.

[Adel Refine]

Yes. Might we get out of these cobblestone alleys? I feel like this is a dark deed.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, well, it is. You want. You want a specialty hat? I'm the one who makes it. Okay, so there's a hat for your penis then, is it?

[Adel Refine]

Oh, no, no, no, no. I. I want a. I want a butt hat.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Oh, good God, sir, no.

[Adel Refine]

Stop shoveling me.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Stop sh.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Get out of my alley. This is for perverts.

[Adel Refine]

But I never. Hey. Is my last chances to knock on this random home and hope that whoever resides inside is willing to bend their moral compass to a ding dong.

[Aaron Keefe]

Hello.

[Adel Refine]

Hello citizen. My name is Reginald. I come from across the pond and I'm looking for a.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Your ass is, huh, Remarkably uncovered.

[Adel Refine]

Thank you. Finally someone notices. I'm all caked up and nowhere to go.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yes, yes, I think we should see about that immediately. Coming here.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Yes, I'm looking for an asshole.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That's right. That's right.

[Adel Refine]

Butt bonnet or whatever you're willing to provide.

[Amal Elmohtar]

All right, well, a custom job is going to take some time. You can of course, peruse from the ready made merchandise.

[Adel Refine]

Oh, you. Oh, you sell out of your home.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I do.

[Amal Elmohtar]

You have to, obviously.

[Adel Refine]

Okay.

[Amal Elmohtar]

And also, you've never spoken to me. You will leave here with your ass covered. But you will. Well, you're off. You know what I mean? However, you will never speak of me again.

[Adel Refine]

I will never utter a word about. Let me look at the address. H.H. holt.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Do you want to cover your ass or not?

[John Patrick Cohen]

Sounds familiar.

[Adel Refine]

Simply must get to the World's Fair. The Columbian exposure position even.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, I think we all wanted to just make that asshat person an absolute serial murderer. Was like, yeah, come on in. I'll kill you for sure. Why not? All right, I think we can do one more of these. Well, we will do one more because this is the last one that Chloe sent in. So what tastes better than it smells?

[Adel Refine]

Tongue.

[John Patrick Cohen]

It's the tongue. No, it's the tongue. It's the tongue.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I keep Hearing people say this of durian, but I've never. Never had it yet. So I. I don't know neither how it smells nor it tastes.

[Adel Refine]

I do want to see a scene. Okay, all three of you are in a. What is it? Like a. Some sommelier exam, I guess, or certification class. And I'll be sort of running it. And put. Put. Putting the three of your spirit palette to the test. Everyone, please pick up glass number A. Swirl it around.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Okay, number number A.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Glass number A. We pan out. There's glasses just scattered around the table. They're not indefinable in front of any one person. And they're all, like, labeled, like, with, like, infinity symbol, square root. Oh, this one. Guys, it's this one. It's this one.

[Aaron Keefe]

It's this one one.

[Adel Refine]

And as you taste it, please just let me know, everyone, what you. What notes you taste.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Long legs on this one.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I can't tell if you said notes in this way because I've never experienced synesthesia before, but I. I'm like, tasting C flat.

[Adel Refine]

Mmm. Yes. Let me know what notes you taste or what flavors you hear.

[Aaron Keefe]

I taste this.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I taste Aeolian mode.

[Adel Refine]

Okay, check that down in my notebook. Aeolian mold. Write song later, question mark.

[John Patrick Cohen]

And I guess it's the. There's an aftertaste. Like I said. Finishes. I think they say the one finishes, and it tastes like 100% black pepper.

[Adel Refine]

Guess the wine finishes first. If you're a gentleman.

[Aaron Keefe]

I don't mean to be uncouth about this, but there's a rumor that in your taste tests, you have a gas leak in the room where we're being tested just to really see if we could work through any and all sensory issues. That's not happening now, is it?

[Adel Refine]

I don't know. So do I look like an albino seal to you?

[Aaron Keefe]

Yes.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yes. Remarkably. Remarkably, that's what you look like.

[Adel Refine]

Okay, everyone, grab glass number blue and let me know what notes.

[Aaron Keefe]

Okay. See? Now you're finally making sense. Oh, wait. He faded it out.

[Adel Refine]

Notes, you notes, you notes.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Do I have. Have it. It's so hard to find the right glass with these blindfolds on. And. Is that part of it?

[Adel Refine]

Trust. Daredevil did it.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I think he was blind.

[Adel Refine]

Excuse me.

[John Patrick Cohen]

You're right. I'm sorry.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That was very insensitive.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I'm so. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I only saw. I only saw the Ben Affleck movie. I never saw. I never saw the show.

[Adel Refine]

So in the show, he simply has a blindfold? Hold on.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay, okay. Okay.

[Adel Refine]

Everyone drink the blue. Let me know what you feel.

[John Patrick Cohen]

This is Gatorade. This is the blue. Gatorade.

[Aaron Keefe]

This is Gatorade. This is Frost. Gatorade.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, Frost. I believe mine might be Diet Frost.

[Adel Refine]

Mm. Anything else? Taste each other.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I'm remembering something. Something deep. Something suppressed. Something.

[Aaron Keefe]

Why.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Why is there a ball balanced on my nose? I'm clapping. I'm clapping for an audience, but the audience should be clapping for me.

[Aaron Keefe]

Are we seals, too?

[Adel Refine]

Would you believe we're all seals in the zoo and we took lsd?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Oh, that'll make so much sense.

[Adel Refine]

Makes so much sense.

[John Patrick Cohen]

It makes so much sense.

[Aaron Keefe]

Baby, our lives rock.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I'll compare you to a sip from wine at the zoo. Ooh.

[Adel Refine]

See, Mommy? They think they're singing.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I do think that if you go to the zoo and there is a. They have a seal exhibit at the zoo, they should be playing Kiss from a Rose all day because a seals love that song. It'll never get old for them. They won't know that it's not just those sounds of nature. They're in a zoo. Right. And it's fun for the people that come and visit.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I just need to know, when you said albino seal before, were you actually talking about the singer? And I just made it into a seal in my head. Oh, my God.

[Aaron Keefe]

I was thinking about a real seal.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I was thinking about a real seal.

[Adel Refine]

I was thinking of a real seal.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I was, too.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Okay. Thank God.

[John Patrick Cohen]

But I mean, there's certainly the concept of an albino seal could exist.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah.

[John Patrick Cohen]

And I mean, the singer, he could.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Good.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Like, he's not albino. But you know the spider verse situation where we have multiple collapsing realities?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yeah.

[Adel Refine]

Seal Morales situation.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Are you. Are any of you familiar with a game called Skeel?

[Aaron Keefe]

No.

[Amal Elmohtar]

This is where you are. It's like a skiing game and you're trying to just navigate a bunch of stuff while Kiss from a Rose is playing. And at some point, I mean, the seals actual, like, the creature appear in the game. And it's very funny. It's very brief. It's a joke game, but it is very fun. And it's called Ski.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Is it? Yeah. What were those games called? Like, the free running games? Like, is it a side scroll or are you, like, skiing downhill?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Skiing downhill.

[John Patrick Cohen]

I'm playing. I'm going to play it. It sounds awesome.

[Adel Refine]

Wasn't there one where you control the left and right leg of, like, a sprinter or something and you have to.

[Amal Elmohtar]

I don't know.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yes, I remember that one, too.

[Adel Refine]

It was popular like 15 years ago, I can't remember but it was like you control the right and left leg and it's. You have to like make the person run, but it's pretty much impossible. You're just basically a sack of potatoes. It was Qwop Adel. Thank you.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Was it cooperative?

[John Patrick Cohen]

The links, by the way, that people have just posted in the chat for this episode are just Amal and Casey posting like obscure video game links chat. That's all we've done here today. I remember in the days of like early Internet, like when Flash games were like a huge thing and I would be stuck at my office job when I worked at a self storage facility in college and I would just be like constantly on newgrounds.com just playing the worst flash free flash games that could run in browser forever. So I have a deep fondness for like, not that those are bad video games, but I have a deep fondness for like bad video games.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Absolutely. I didn't have a console. I was like, I grew up not allowed to play video games, but all of my cousins had like every conceivable console. So video games were something I could only play at my cousin's places up until my brothers came of an age to play video games. And then suddenly it was totally fine. I don't have elder daughter of immigrants drama at all. But my brothers did in fact eventually have like a PS1. And then one of my most formative game experiences at that point was that they kept saving over my Final Fantasy 9 games.

[John Patrick Cohen]

No.

[Amal Elmohtar]

And so I still have not actually finished that game except for one of them because they were kids and they kept asking me to take them through the harder parts and stuff. But anyway, yeah, so playing Flash games on the computer was something that I also did a lot of because of that particular intersection of time and place.

[Adel Refine]

Once you have your. What was it? Final Fantasy IX. Once you have your Final Fantasy 9 file erased, I would only play Flash games because that is traumatic to get that. That's a long game.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah.

[Adel Refine]

Damn. I'm so sorry.

[Amal Elmohtar]

One day.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Now that I know that you played Final Fantasy 9, it kind of makes me not having sat on the. You had a crush on Shadow and I also had a crush on Shadow From Final Fantasy 6 bit that I sat on for most of the show. But he's so a ninja and an assassin. Come on, come on. What's not to love?

[Amal Elmohtar]

So true.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Well, that brings us to the end of the show and the only thing that we have time for is our plugs. So amal. Thank you so much for joining us. Is there anything that you have that you would like to plug? Where can people find your work? Follow you all of that jazz?

[Amal Elmohtar]

Yes, thank you. So I have. Besides this is how youw Lose the Time War, I have two other books that are out. One is called the River Has Roots, which actually also has riddle content in it because one of the fuck. It's a retelling of a ballad and it's about sisters. And one of the sisters really loves murder ballads and the other one really loves riddle songs. And so they're like riddle songs are a kind of component thing there. And I also had a short story collection come out this year called Seasons of Glass and Iron, which is the name of a specific story in it as well as the whole collection. And that is. I think that's it. Those are the things I want to plug.

[Aaron Keefe]

Amazing.

[Adel Refine]

Congratulations.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Thank you so much.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Yeah, that's very awesome. And I can't recommend. I've only ever read one of your books, but I can't recommend them enough because they are. The first one that I read was fantastic.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That makes me so happy. Hopefully it's not all downhill from there. I peaked

[John Patrick Cohen]

and Adol. Aaron, do you guys have anything that you guys want to plug? Anything for the people out there?

[Adel Refine]

Yes, I want to plug Gum, Shoes and Dragons podcast that the three of us do with Anthony Birch that Amal was a guest on very recently and it was a goddamn delight. It was, I believe, a Broadway themed episode.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Hell yeah.

[Adel Refine]

And I have one other quick thing. Amal, would you mind closing your ey? Shadow and other avid mountain climbers paid a lot of money to be the first to scale a mountain. After several days of climbing, they finally reached the pinnacle and in their dismay, found a cabin and three frozen bodies. Since Shadow and his fellow climbers were the first men to ever climb the summit. How could this be possible?

[Amal Elmohtar]

It was the cabin of an airplane.

[Adel Refine]

It was the cabin. The cabin Shadow and his fellow climbers found was the airplane cabin. Just wanted to see if you still had it.

[John Patrick Cohen]

God, how do. How do you not want to fuck that guy? I mean, he's got everything. He's the full package.

[Adel Refine]

He's got three dead bodies. Avid climber.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Okay, that's great, Aaron, anything you want to plug?

[Aaron Keefe]

Nothing. Bye, hot dogs.

[John Patrick Cohen]

All right.

[Amal Elmohtar]

Bye everybody. Bye.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Created by Adel Refine starring Aaron Keenan and John Patrick Cohen.

[Adel Refine]

Casey.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Tony did the editing and already parented the music. Logo created by Emily Cardamus and Emily Naporus. Hey there, Q's and A's. If you like that, you're gonna love this week's episode. It's another ch ch ch ch. Chatterbox where we're answering your questions. You can listen to that plus our entire back catalog by going to patreon.com heyriddle riddle and joining the clue crew for $5 a month. Or start your seven day free trial or the review crew for $8 a month. Plus you get those ad free episodes. See you there.

[Amal Elmohtar]

That was a Headgum podcast.

[John Patrick Cohen]

What's up everybody? I'm Kyle Mooney. And what's up everybody? I'm back behind and man. Ooh, I got. We got something to tell you. Oh, yeah, we definitely do. Yes. It's a brand new podcast on Headgum. That's right. And it's called what's Our Podcast? Yep.

[Aaron Keefe]

And that's because.

[John Patrick Cohen]

Because we don't have a single idea what our podcast should be about. Yeah, we don't. So we actually have guests come on and they tell us what they think our podcast should be about and then we try it. Yep. Guests like Mark Marin, Jack Black, Brittany Brosi, Kate Berlant, Bobby Moynihan, Meg Stalter and Tim Balt, landon Axler, Joanie McGre, and Dender and Dender. New episodes release every Wednesday day, so subscribe to what's Our Podcast? On YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms. Yeah, I'm going to go do it right now.

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