Hidden Brain Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Group Think
Date: March 23, 2026
Host: Shankar Vedantam
Guests: Jay Van Bavel (psychologist, NYU, co-author of "The Power of Us"), Colton Scrivener (researcher, ASU & Aarhus University)

Overview

This episode explores the profound impact that group identities have on our behaviors, perceptions, and society at large. Through vivid stories—from Nelson Mandela’s unifying use of sports in post-apartheid South Africa to social experiments in group behavior—Hidden Brain investigates why group bonds can make us more generous and more tribal, and how understanding the science behind group identity can help us create stronger, more inclusive communities. The latter half of the episode, in conversation with Colton Scrivener, delves into the psychological allure and social nature of horror and morbid curiosity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

How Group Identity Shapes Us

Mandela & The Springboks: Turning Symbols of Division into Unity

• Mandela’s Strategic Use of Sports:
  • After apartheid, Mandela wore Springboks gear, a symbol of white South African pride, to signal unity.
  • “He took a symbol of oppression and used it as a symbol of togetherness.” (Jay Van Bavel, 01:38)
  • The victory of the Springboks in the 1995 Rugby World Cup excited the nation, with blacks and whites celebrating together—a symbolic step towards national healing.

The Power of Group Cues

• Traveling Canadians & National Symbols:
  • Jay Van Bavel shares how, when abroad, a Canadian flag on his backpack instantly created camaraderie with other Canadians.
  • “That thing that might otherwise be really mundane becomes really significant to you.” (Jay Van Bavel, 07:04)
• Taste & Identity Experiment:
  • Priming Canadian identity led participants to prefer maple syrup over honey.
  • “When your identity is salient, it makes you prefer things associated with that identity.” (Jay Van Bavel, 08:47)
• Advertising & Group Pride:
  • Molson’s “I Am Canadian” ad leveraged national pride, boosting beer sales by connecting to a shared Canadian identity. (09:08–10:19)

Perception & Group Bias

• Stinky T-shirt Study (University of Sussex):
  • Students rated a stinky shirt as more disgusting if it belonged to a rival university, demonstrating that group identity even alters sensory perceptions.
  • “What we find disgusting is determined also by our identity.” (Jay Van Bavel, 11:47)
• 1966 World Cup Example:
  • Controversial soccer goal interpreted differently by English and German fans and players, echoing group-influenced perception of reality.
  • “Players wanted to interpret this ball as going over the line … I looked up a study from Oxford University saying it didn’t cross the line.” (Van Bavel, 13:00)

The Minimal Group Paradigm

• Henri Tajfel’s Classic Study:
  • Arbitrary group assignment (preference for Klee or Kandinsky) led people to favor their in-group—even to the detriment of total group welfare.
  • “The moment you’re part of a team or group, you will give more to in-group members and less to out-group—even if you never meet them.” (Jay Van Bavel, 16:04)
• “Basking in Reflected Glory”:
  • Lab studies show people’s brains react as if they themselves won when their group/college succeeds. (Jay Van Bavel, 17:00)

Why Groups Exert Such Power

• Groups fulfill essential needs: belonging, status, distinctiveness.
• “Humans evolved… in small tribal communities. We survive by cooperating in groups.” (Jay Van Bavel, 18:25)

The Dark Side: Group Identity and Division

Tribalism and Its Costs

• Dassler Brothers & Adidas vs. Puma:
  • Family feud in a German town over a shoe company led to social ostracism, even affecting marriages and burials—eventually spawning Adidas and Puma.
  • “People would walk around looking down at the ground to see what shoes people were wearing… this feud went right to the grave.” (Jay Van Bavel, 22:06)
• Contemporary U.S. Politics:
  • Rising polarization now characterized more by out-group hatred than mere in-group solidarity.
  • “You'll even support a leader you don't trust simply because you can't let this evil out-group take control.” (Jay Van Bavel, 25:10)

Group Divides in Everyday Life

• Shorter Thanksgiving dinners; increased political discrimination in dating.
  • “People refused to date somebody who voted for the other party. Now there are dating websites dedicated specifically to your political preferences.” (Jay Van Bavel, 26:44)
• Sports Rivalries and Cognitive Distortions:
  • Yankees fans believe that the Red Sox's Fenway Park is physically closer than it really is, indicating threat perception distorts spatial judgments.
  • “If there's a threat in the environment, you gotta get ready to act. And seeing it as closer can sometimes trigger that reaction.” (Jay Van Bavel, 27:11–28:00)
• People threatened by immigration also see Mexico as physically closer than it actually is. (28:12)

Group Identity Filters Information, Even Facts

• Police Body Cam Studies:
  • People interpret the same footage differently based on whether they identify with police or civilians.
  • “Simply having the video is not enough to solve these problems.” (Jay Van Bavel, 29:01)
• Social Media and Out-Group Negativity:
  • Dunking on the out-group is 67% more likely to go viral; social platforms reward group antagonism, fostering division.
  • “The biggest single predictor of making something go viral is dunking on the out group.” (Jay Van Bavel, 31:15)
• Limits of Fact Checking:
  • Nudges toward accuracy help most people, but not those with strong partisan identities. (31:22)

Harnessing the Power of Groups for Good

Creating and Reinventing Group Identities

• Personal Story—The Heimlich Bond:
  • Jay Van Bavel recounts how a near-choking incident catalyzed a friendship with now coauthor Dominic Packer.
  • “From that point on, we became close friends. This weird near-death experience created a bridge.” (Jay Van Bavel, 35:40)
• Crisis as Social Glue:
  • Shared stress (from hijackings to dating on dangerous bridges) forms strong group bonds.
  • “When you're all in this crisis together, it creates a sense of shared purpose.” (Jay Van Bavel, 38:22)

Sports & Superordinate Goals as Bridges

• Mo Salah at Liverpool:
  • Muslim star’s success led to measurable drops in hate crimes/anti-Muslim tweets among fans.
  • “Being part of the same team… can bridge gaps we thought were unbridgeable.” (Jay Van Bavel, 41:46)
• Soccer Cure in Iraq:
  • Christians and Muslims placed on the same soccer teams reported positive attitudinal changes.
  • “Working towards a common shared goal can bridge gaps that we might have thought were completely unbridgeable.” (Jay Van Bavel, 41:46)
• General Principle:
  • Broad, inclusive group identities (e.g., sports fans) can override historic divisions, rendering other distinctions (race, religion) momentarily irrelevant.
  • “Those same groups, who are at each other’s throats, if you create a superordinate goal… that can pull people together.” (Jay Van Bavel, 44:22)

Institutional Change and Representation

• Diversity in Police Reduces Bias:
  • Diversifying police leads to less use of force, especially toward black civilians.
  • “Having a diverse group… is incredibly, incredibly essential.” (Jay Van Bavel, 45:24)

Leadership Lessons: The Capacity to Build Broad Coalitions

• “Some truly great leaders are capable of rallying people around a common identity.” (Jay Van Bavel, 47:11)
• Examples: U.S. unity after 9/11; John F. Kennedy and the Moon landing; the awe effect of seeing Earth from space, acting as “earthlings” with a common purpose.
  • “If we can get people to see themselves as connected to all of humanity, we might be able to change the way they think about themselves.” (Jay Van Bavel, 49:46)

Memorable Quotes

• On the Magnetism of Group Identities:
  • “The moment that people are assigned to a team or a group, even though they often can know, it’s a coin flip … this means they like those people more, they want to be friends with them…it shapes their automatic evaluations.” (Jay Van Bavel, 16:50)
• On Our Divides Feeling Important:
  • “Whatever conflicts are driving your own life seem real…and the conflicts of other people halfway around the world might seem absurd, but it’s very much the same psychology.” (Jay Van Bavel, 24:13)
• On Leadership and Unity:
  • “We really need to think about what is going to animate and excite and motivate people to feel a common sense of purpose, to make sacrifices and help one another.” (Jay Van Bavel, 48:07)
• On Superordinate Group Identity:
  • “The group identity to the team now supersedes all of those other previous group identities.” (Shankar Vedantam, 44:04)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – Nelson Mandela, sports, and the symbolism of group unity
• 05:28 – Jay Van Bavel’s Canadian travel story; salience of group identity abroad
• 07:41 – Maple syrup vs. honey study: how priming identity changes preferences
• 08:59 – The Molson “I Am Canadian” campaign and selling with identity
• 10:43 – How group cues alter perception (stinky T-shirt experiment)
• 14:44 – Minimal Group Paradigm and Tajfel’s coin flip group assignment
• 18:25 – Evolutionary roots of group loyalty
• 22:06 – The Adidas/Puma feud and small-town tribalism
• 25:10 – Out-group hate versus in-group love; modern political polarization
• 26:06 – The impact of political identity on family and dating
• 29:01 – Body cams don’t guarantee objectivity: identification shapes perception
• 31:15 – Social media incentivizes out-group derision and polarization
• 35:14 – Near-death experience bonds (Heimlich story)
• 37:38 – Shared dangers and the formation of group bonds
• 41:46 – Mo Salah and the Liverpool effect, “soccer cure” in Iraq
• 45:24 – How police force diversity shapes community outcomes
• 48:55 – Astronauts’ perspective: Earth from space and planetary identity

Morbid Curiosity & Scary Entertainment as Social Glue (with Colton Scrivener)

Why We Like the Scary and Grisly

• Morbid curiosity is a near-universal human trait, rooted in our need to learn about danger and threat (54:59–55:35).
• Enjoying horror is not a sign of abnormality; rather, empathetic people are drawn to horror’s emotional and social content (60:18).

Learning, Empowerment, and Even Anxiety Relief

• True crime and horror provide opportunities to learn from mistakes and survival stories (58:35).
• Playing horror video games can help regulate misplaced anxiety by aligning feelings with situation (61:40).
• During COVID, horror fans scored higher on measures of resilience (64:39).

Bonding Through Scary Experiences

• Watching scary content is often a group activity, which builds social connections and helps people feel less alone in their fears (65:25).
• Date night horror movies: offer an opportunity to learn how partners handle stress (80:30).

Three Types of Horror Fans

1. Sensation Seekers: Enjoy the adrenaline.
2. White Knucklers: Enjoy overcoming fear.
3. Dark Copers: Use horror to cope with difficult emotions (70:44).

The Limits and Dangers

• Like “mental junk food,” overconsumption of dark stories can lower mood or reinforce a sense that the world is dangerous (78:05).
• Moderation and intentionality are key (79:30).

Scaring Others for Fun and Relief

• Haunt actors and parents playing “monster”: Enabling safe fear can also be altruistic and socially bonding (87:50–88:49).

Notable, Memorable Moments

• The Cheese Cube Incident and the Birth of a Collaboration
  (Jay Van Bavel, 35:49)
• The Mo Salah Effect:
  Hate crime in Liverpool dropped after Muslims and non-Muslims shared in sports joy (40:20–41:46)
• Social Media's Viral Dark Side:
  Negative out-group messages go viral fastest (31:15)
• Haunted Mansion Physiological Response:
  Even non-believers’ bodies react with fear in haunted settings (89:43–94:23)

Takeaways

• Group identities are not static; they are flexible and can be harnessed for positive change.
• Crises and shared goals can transform divisive group boundaries into sources of solidarity.
• The same psychology that fuels fandoms and friendships undergirds tribal conflict and polarization.
• Morbid curiosity is natural, and scary experiences can educate, bond, and even therapeutically distract us—provided they aren’t overindulged.

For Further Listening

• Earlier episodes referenced:
  • “Screaming into the Void” (social media and attention economy)
  • “Murder Mystery” (morbid curiosity)

Host sign-off:
“If you enjoyed today’s conversation, please consider sharing it with your friends … word of mouth recommendations make a big difference in helping others find the show. I’m Shankar Vedantam. See you soon.” (94:45)

Contact

For listener stories on group identity, email: feedbackiddenbrain.org (subject line: Groups) (35:14, 46:09)