History As It Happens: Antony Beevor on Trump, Putin, and the Unsettled Legacies of WWII
Hosted by Martin Di Caro
Release Date: May 20, 2025

Introduction and Context

In this compelling episode of History As It Happens, host Martin DeCaro welcomes renowned military historian Antony Beevor to discuss the intricate interplay between historical legacies and contemporary geopolitical dynamics. The conversation centers around Russian President Vladimir Putin's recent actions commemorating the 80th anniversary of World War II's conclusion and former U.S. President Donald Trump's unconventional foreign policy maneuvers amid the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.

Putin’s 80th Anniversary Military Parade: A Historical Ploy

The episode opens with a detailed description of Putin's grand military parade in Moscow, marking the 80th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany. Beevor notes the significance of the event, stating:

“This year was especially lavish because it's the 80th anniversary of their really significant victory over” (00:44).

The parade featured a sea of colorful uniforms, tanks, and military bands, drawing the largest global delegation to Moscow in a decade, including Chinese President Xi Jinping. Putin's rhetoric emphasized defending the "motherland" and preserving "traditional values," while also rejecting any distortion of World War II events.

Selective Historical Narratives and Their Impact

Antony Beevor delves into how Putin selectively interprets Russian history to serve his political agenda. He critiques Putin's narrative that the Great Patriotic War began with Hitler's invasion in June 1941, effectively omitting the 1939 Soviet invasion of Poland. Beevor explains:

“Putin insists the war began in June 1941 when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, ignoring the joint Soviet and Nazi invasion of Poland in September 1939” (04:10).

This selective memory not only distorts historical facts but also serves to legitimize Putin's current military actions by anchoring them in a revered historical victory.

Trump’s Foreign Policy: Peacemaking or Ploy?

The discussion shifts to Donald Trump's attempts at brokering peace between Russia and Ukraine. Beevor is critical of Trump's approach, suggesting that it represents a departure from established U.S. global leadership:

“Meanwhile, writes Beaver, the Trump administration appears to be casting aside the United States global leadership in a confused tantrum” (05:33).

Trump's claims of having a good relationship with Putin and his confidence in swiftly ending the war are juxtaposed with actual events, including Trump's two-hour phone call with Putin and subsequent peace talks in Istanbul. Beevor warns that Trump's underestimation of Putin's strategic intentions could have long-term detrimental effects.

“President Trump is, I am afraid, unaware of to what degree Putin is playing him and actually, I'm afraid, despising him” (17:41).

The Fraying Post-WWII Order and Historical Awareness

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the erosion of the post-World War II international order, which Beevor attributes to diminishing historical awareness among policymakers and the public. He emphasizes the importance of remembering the atrocities and complexities of WWII to prevent the resurgence of similar destructive ideologies.

“What one has to remember is Hitler introduced the idea that might is right, that you can do anything. The Russian saying is victors face no laws. So all of these attitudes have come back again suddenly” (26:23).

Beevor contends that the fading collective memory of WWII's horrors contributes to current geopolitical instability, as nations are less informed or motivated to uphold the principles established in its aftermath.

Europe’s Complacency and the Role of NATO

The dialogue explores Europe's complacency regarding its defense capabilities and reliance on the United States. Reflecting on historical lessons, Beevor criticizes the European assumption that economic interdependence would prevent another large-scale war, a belief that Trump also echoes in his foreign policy skepticism.

“President Trump is absolutely right on that particular score. But the thing is that actually, it was the problem of what can only describe as Democratic confirmation bias” (33:15).

Beevor underscores the essential role of NATO in maintaining European security and warns against the potential strategic mistake of the U.S. distancing itself from the Western alliance.

Trump’s Foreign Policy: Realism or Delusion?

Addressing Trump's foreign policy, Beevor describes it as a mix of realism, fantasy, and self-delusion. While acknowledging some valid criticisms, he argues that Trump's approach jeopardizes the strength and influence of the United States on the global stage.

“The influence and the strength of the United States is severely diminished. And I think that actually it is a major strategic mistake for the United States to try to cast Europe aside” (36:42).

Legacy of WWII: Diverse National Perspectives

In the concluding segments, Beevor reflects on the varied national perspectives of WWII's legacy. He highlights how different countries interpret the war through their unique historical lenses, which continues to influence their contemporary policies and international relations.

“World War II really did bring world history together. And yet we can only still see the Second World War in our own national terms” (42:34).

Beevor stresses the ongoing relevance of WWII's lessons and the dangers of allowing historical narratives to be manipulated for current political ends.

Conclusion: Lessons and Warnings from the Past

The episode wraps up with Beevor cautioning against the selective remembrance of history and the perilous impact it has on today's geopolitical landscape. He advocates for a more nuanced and comprehensive understanding of historical events to guide current and future policies effectively.

“Unless you can convey the true nature of totalitarian warfare, people are still going to think, oh, well, maybe it's okay to have a war” (26:23).

Antony Beevor's insights serve as a powerful reminder of the enduring influence of history on present-day affairs and the critical need to preserve historical awareness to navigate complex international relations.

Notable Quotes

• Antony Beevor (00:44): “This year was especially lavish because it's the 80th anniversary of their really significant victory over.”

• Donald Trump (05:41): “I think Putin is tired of this whole thing. He's not looking good. And he wants to look good.”

• Antony Beevor (17:41): “President Trump is, I am afraid, unaware of to what degree Putin is playing him and actually, I'm afraid, despising him.”

• Antony Beevor (26:23): “What one has to remember is Hitler introduced the idea that might is right, that you can do anything.”

• Antony Beevor (36:42): “The influence and the strength of the United States is severely diminished. And I think that actually it is a major strategic mistake for the United States to try to cast Europe aside.”

About Antony Beevor

Antony Beevor is one of the foremost military historians of our time, known for his in-depth analyses of major conflicts such as World War II and the Russian Revolution. His upcoming book on Rasputin, discussed in the episode, promises to shed new light on the enigmatic figure and his impact on Russian history.

For more insightful discussions on how history shapes the present, tune in to History As It Happens every Tuesday and Friday.