Podcast Summary: History As It Happens

Episode: Bonus Ep! Who Was Carl Schmitt?
Host: Martin Di Caro
Guest: Philip Magness (historian, Senior Fellow at the Independent Institute)
Date: October 29, 2025

Overview

This bonus episode explores the life and influence of Carl Schmitt, a controversial German legal theorist and Nazi party member whose ideas about sovereignty and the nature of the political continue to shape debate among both the New Right and sections of the far left today. Host Martin Di Caro and historian Philip Magness discuss Schmitt’s relevance in contemporary American politics, his legacy on both sides of the ideological spectrum, and the dangers inherent in his theories.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Was Carl Schmitt?

• Schmitt was a prominent legal theorist in Germany, best known for joining the Nazi party and serving as a jurist during Hitler’s regime.
• Despite his Nazi affiliations, Schmitt is regarded as one of the most important—and dangerous—political theorists of the 20th century.
• His work, especially the book The Concept of the Political, profoundly influenced debates on the nature of sovereignty, legality, and the limits of liberal democracy.
• Schmitt’s central concept: the “friend-enemy distinction” is fundamental to politics.
  • [01:15] Orrin McIntyre: “For Schmidt, the friend enemy distinction is the fundamental distinction of the political, and any other distinctions that might exist when forming groups is subordinate to the friend enemy distinction.”

2. Why Is Schmitt Influential Today?

• Schmitt’s ideas have been adopted by anti-liberal movements on both right and left in the US and Europe.
  • On the New Right, self-styled post-liberals and reactionaries (some describing themselves as conservative) use Schmitt to justify abandoning constitutional constraints for the sake of “winning.”
  • On the far left, especially among critical theorists and activists, Schmitt’s critique of liberal institutions informs analyses that see democracy as a mask for oppression.

New Right & Post-Liberalism

• The current American New Right looks to Schmitt (drawing on a European tradition) for inspiration, using him to challenge the free-market, constitutionally constrained conservatism of previous generations (e.g., William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan).
  • [03:25] Philip Magness: “They view American conservatism … as an impediment to success in the political arena, to winning. … They pursue more of an old, almost reactionary European style of the Right, not conservative, but just hard right celebration of feudalism and monarchical societies.”
• J.D. Vance, current Vice President, is personally influenced by this trend and by Harvard Law Professor Adrian Vermeule, who is a leading promoter of Schmittian post-liberalism in academia.
  • [04:50] Philip Magness: “Vermeule … presents himself as the leader of the post liberal faction in academia. And Vermeule is one of the major right wing articulators of Carl Schmidt.”

Schmitt’s Cross-Ideological Appeal

• Schmitt’s critics and admirers span the spectrum:
  • 1960s New Left German and Italian movements drew on Schmitt to argue that liberal democratic institutions are actually obstacles to liberation.
  • Far-right activists celebrate Schmitt for his belief in sovereign executive power and decisionism.
  • Postmodernist theorists like Jacques Derrida and Marxist thinkers such as Negri and Hardt (in their book Empire) have also re-purposed Schmitt’s theories.
    • [07:27] Philip Magness: “Even though he’s a right wing Nazi affiliated theorist, he had concepts that apply to us. … Jacques Derrida … draws on Carl Schmitt. And then … Negri and Michael Hart write this book ... Empire … and they too appealed to Carl Schmidt in a key chapter.”
  • Both extremes use Schmitt’s core insight that politics is about existential group conflict—a stark break from liberalism’s focus on dialogue, compromise, and individual rights.

3. The Dangers of Schmitt’s Ideas

• Schmitt’s notion that a sovereign must have the ultimate power to decide—unfettered by institutions or constitutional constraints—paved the way for authoritarianism under the Nazis.
• Both left and right appropriations of Schmitt’s thought may risk undermining checks and balances and the protections of liberal democracy.
  • [09:11] Co-host: “On the far right too, the true voice of the people is the sovereign who can rule—what’s called decisionism. … We all can understand why this would lead to some really pernicious … I mean, after all, Schmitt was a legal theorist in the Third Reich.”

4. Intellectual Networks and Legacy

• Despite his Nazi ties, Schmitt was highly respected, even by critics such as Raymond Aron, Alexandre Kojève, and Jacob Taubes.
  • [10:27] Co-host: Cites Mark Lilla: “Raymond Aaron … called him a great social philosopher in the tradition of Max Weber. … Alexandra Kohaev … explained … that Schmidt is the only man in Germany worth talking to. … Jacob Taubes … argued that … Schmidt, along with Heidegger … was among the most important thinkers of our time.”
• Schmitt’s position in the German intellectual landscape of the 1920s and 30s made him a touchstone for debates about democracy, sovereignty, and the fate of liberal institutions.
  • [10:27] Philip Magness: “Schmidt is an academic for most of the prime of his life, and this is really the 1920s and 1930s. He’s a prominent figure on the academic scene … running in the same circles of some very major figures, and they’re reading his work and citing his work and responding to him.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [01:15] Orrin McIntyre: “The friend enemy distinction is the fundamental distinction of the political.”
• [03:25] Philip Magness: “…they view Trump as a breakaway from that. … He’s not nearly as committed to the free market tenet of historical American conservatism, but also not a big respecter of constitutional norms either.”
• [04:50] Philip Magness: “Vance has described himself as a proponent and adherent to a political philosophy known as post liberalism.”
• [07:27] Philip Magness: “It was really in the 1980s and 1990s … that critical theory left … started to really rediscover Carl Schmitt … Jacques Derrida … Negri and Michael Hart … appealed to Carl Schmidt in a key chapter.”
• [09:11] Co-host: “We all can understand why this would lead to some really pernicious … after all, Schmidt was a legal theorist in the Third Reich, for goodness sake.”
• [10:27] Co-host (quoting Mark Lilla): “Raymond Aaron … called him a great social philosopher in the tradition of Max Weber. … Jacob Taubes … argued [Schmitt] was among the most important thinkers of our time.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00] Introduction to Schmitt and his influence on the New Right
• [01:15] Explanation of “friend-enemy distinction” (Orrin McIntyre quote)
• [03:25] How and why Schmitt attracts today’s New Right; Magness contextualizes
• [04:50] The post-liberal movement, J.D. Vance, and Adrian Vermeule
• [07:01–07:27] Schmitt’s appeal to left (New Left, Derrida, Negri & Hardt)
• [09:11] Dangers of “decisionism”—the sovereign beyond institutional constraint
• [10:27] Schmitt’s reputation: respected by critics and contemporaries

Conclusion

This episode offers a concise yet thorough review of Carl Schmitt’s significance: his theories on politics and sovereignty have outlasted the circumstances of his Nazi-era career, finding new life in today’s debates over liberal democracy. As both right and left revive Schmitt’s provocative critiques, the discussion warns of the hazards in embracing his undemocratic, anti-constitutional ideas—even as his intellectual legacy remains undeniable.