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- [00:00]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [01:02]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
history as it happens June 12, 2026 the meteorologist who saved D
- [01:08]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Day
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General Dwight Eisenhower (Actor Brendan Fraser)
and so in this poignant hour,
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Narrator/Voice Actor (Describing Canadian troops)
I ask you to join with me in prayer.
- [01:18]
General Dwight Eisenhower (Actor Brendan Fraser)
Soldiers, sailors and airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force, you are about to embark upon the great crusade toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you.
- [01:31]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Under the command of General Eisenhower, Allied naval forces, supported by strong air forces,
- [01:38]
Narrator/Voice Actor (Describing Rangers)
began landing Allied armies this morning on
- [01:41]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
the northern coast of France, and from
- [01:43]
General Dwight Eisenhower (Actor Brendan Fraser)
the air are stretching over the entire area.
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Narrator/Voice Actor (Describing Rangers)
Soon, one by one, the Rangers pulled themselves over the top and in seizing the firm land at the top of these cliffs, they began to seize back the continent of Europe. 225 came here. After two days of fighting, only 90 could still bear arms.
- [02:05]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
D Day may evoke memories of paratroopers landing in the dangerous darkness and of infantry storming the beaches of Nazi occupied France. We usually don't think about the weatherman, but without his forecast, there would have been few heroes to remember on June 6, 1944. That's next. Next, as we report history as it happens.
- [02:26]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
I'm Martin DeCaro.
- [02:27]
Critic/Commentator
Absolute chaos. Thousands of lives lost. Hell on earth. Torrential rain. He's selecting the data that suits him and ignoring the rest. And we must face the facts. The facts, however frightening they may be.
- [02:41]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Stagg predicted a break, a gap in this very bad storm that was happening on the Fifth, the fact that he didn't predict exactly how the break would materialize is an indication of how little they really knew about forecasting.
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Narrator (History as it Happens)
Imagine if the invasion had failed, how differently we might feel today when listening to General Eisenhower's D Day address to the 150,000 Allied troops who are about to face the enemy in Nazi occupied Europe.
- [03:11]
General Dwight Eisenhower (Actor Brendan Fraser)
You are about to embark upon the great crusade toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you in company with our brave allies and brothers in arms on other fronts. You will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world. Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle hardened. He will fight savagely. But this is the year 1944. Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of 1940 41. The United nations have inflicted upon the Germans great defeats in open battle. Man to man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our home fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions of war and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men. The tide has turned. The free men of the world are marching together to victory. I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full victory. Good luck, and let us all beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking.
- [04:45]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
Now, the actor Brendan Fraser sounds nothing
- [04:47]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
like Ike, but he was convincing enough
- [04:49]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
in Pressure, a new film about someone most moviegoers probably know little about. No, not Eisenhower. I'm referring to Group Captain James Stagg, a Scottish meteorologist who ultimately convinced Eisenhower to postpone the invasion, but planned for June 5th because a storm would have
- [05:06]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
made the landings impossible.
- [05:08]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
This clip, courtesy Focus Features.
- [05:11]
Actor Andrew Scott as James Stagg
You can muster all the tanks and soldiers and ships that you like. You can assemble the greatest armada that ever there was. But if you invade tomorrow, they're going to be washed away because the storms that I'm talking about are real.
- [05:31]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
The actor Andrew Scott delivered a fine performance as Stag, but this was not an untold story.
- [05:37]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Really, any good book on D Day
- [05:39]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
covers the excruciating hours before Eisenhower decided to go on June 6 because of a forecasted lull in the storm. And James Stagg has been played on the big screen before by the British actor Patrick BARR in the 1962 film, the longest Day.
- [05:55]
Meteorologist Character
Trying to pick a trend is difficult. From a meteorological standpoint, conditions almost resemble mid winter.
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William Hitchcock (Historian)
And Normandy?
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Meteorologist Character
High winds, clouds and some fog over the beaches. However, I can say with a certain degree of safety that we can expect a brief period of fair conditions.
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William Hitchcock (Historian)
Let me summarize then. What you're promising us is a barely tolerable period of fair conditions. Am I right?
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Narrator/Voice Actor (Describing Rangers)
Well, it is conditions that are far
- [06:28]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
below the minimum requirements.
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Meteorologist Character
That's all I can promise.
- [06:33]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
You've done your best, Stag. Thank you, gentlemen.
- [06:36]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
That last voice you heard, there was a fellow by the name of Henry Grace, an unknown, who was picked only because he looked so much like Eisenhower. Anyway, Pressure was a riveting film about a subject that never gets old, the Allied liberation of France.
- [06:51]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
I do a D Day episode every
- [06:53]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
June, and in this one we're going to talk about the weather with historian William Hitchcock, who teaches at the University of Virginia.
- [07:00]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
He's the author of the Bitter Road to Freedom, a new history of the
- [07:03]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
liberation of Europe, which was published in 2008 and was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. His most recent book is the Age of Eisenhower, and his next book is coming out in September, A Shadow over the Franklin D. The Rise of Fascism,
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Martin DeCaro (Host)
the Making of America's World War II. William Hitchcock, welcome back to the podcast.
- [07:24]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Good to be with you.
- [07:25]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
It has been about five years. I do a D Day episode every June. You join me in June of 2021. You haven't been on the show in a half a decade. What's going on?
- [07:36]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Well, it's been a while, but I have been to Normandy recently, so the topic of today's conversation is in my mind. I was out there this fall with a group of University of Virginia travelers as well as people from the World War II Museum, and never fails to overwhelm you, geography and the moving tributes all over the coastline.
- [07:56]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
There in Normandy last June, I did a show about the cemeteries and the amazing architecture for the American cemeteries there in France. So what did you think of the movie Pressure? Overall Impressions?
- [08:10]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Well, I enjoyed it and I think it's a good thing that we have, you know, more attention, more popular attention focused on the events of D Day. The subject is one of the great stories of world history. It never gets old and different writers and screenwriters and directors will treat different aspects of it. And I think it's all to the good. I'll say that the thing that is most important about the film is that it reminds us that it was a gamble nobody knew if it would work. And we are fixed in the idea that, well, D Day was just sort of the application of overwhelming power. Clearly we were going to overcome the odds and we're going to win. But, no, I mean, the whole thing was a gamble, and no one had any idea how it was gonna come out. And I think the movie recovers nicely the sense of contingency. You know, you can prepare all you want, but you don't know how these things will come out. You don't know the outcome of a battle. And it gives a very interesting background to the character of Captain James Stagg and his relationship to Eisenhower and to the other members of the staff. So I liked it. Lively and compelling and, you know, restores that sense of excitement and drama to the whole.
- [09:20]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Yeah, it's an interesting topic for a World War II movie. A weather forecaster. There are very minimal battle scenes. If I had any criticism of the movie, it kind of shortchanged the end, the climax. Left out a lot of details. But, you know, the movie was already, what, two hours or so? But, yeah, an interesting topic for a war movie meteorologist. And as you say, we all know how it turns out. The invasion was successful. So to try to restore that urgency and contingency in a dramatic treatment. So assuming most people in the theater know how it all ends. But maybe there are people who don't know the ending of the story who are just learning about World War II for the first time.
- [09:59]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Probably everyone going to a movie like this knows how it's going to come out. D Day is a great success story. But they may not recall the details of what made it a success. And here the movie can only do so much. So it zeroes in on the question of is the weather going to be good on this particular date, June 5th, which is when D Day was initially planned for, or will it deteriorate? And Captain Stagg has to break the bad news that the weather is going to be terrible on June 5th. And it's a difficult message because everything is set up to go on June 5th. And Stagg, using what was then sort of new technologies, makes the argument that the weather's going to be bad, so it has to be postponed.
- [10:36]
Critic/Commentator
Yes, the weather was as he described in 1904 and 1925, but he fails to mention 1916. June 5, the battle for Mount Sorel. Then, as now, there were areas of high pressure above the Azores, but the storms came anyway. Many people here will remember that battle. Chaos, absolute chaos. Thousands of lives lost. Hell on Earth. Torrential rain. He's selecting the data that suits him and ignoring the rest. And we must face the facts. The facts.
- [11:05]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
And that sounds like a flimsy premise for a movie, but I do think one thing it brings forward is that World War II is a fascinating moment in history when so many new technologies that we're familiar with now are just on the cusp of being born. You know, meteorology is one of them. The whole idea of the jet stream was kind of a theory at that point. They had none of the, obviously, satellite technologies that we rely on today. They were using old maps to basically use patterns from the past to predict the future. So this is actually similar to so many other spheres during the war. Breakthroughs in radar, breakthroughs in cryptography, or, of course, atomic research or jet aircraft, Eng. Which come at the very, very end of the war, even penicillin. There's all of these breakthroughs that are happening because of the war, but are just brand new and uncertain technologies. And I love that they brought a little attention to the way science really contributed to the outcome of the war.
- [12:01]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
And the New York Times did a thorough treatment of all of this. And as it turns out, and I just saw the movie a couple of weeks ago, and I already can't remember if they mentioned this in the movie, but I don't think they did that, the actual forecast turned out to be a little bit off the mark. So they were right for the wrong reasons. June 5th is supposed to be the day to go, but Stag's forecasts say if you do it with this storm, you won't be able to land. But then they forecast an opening where the weather is going to lighten up enough, you're gonna have a window of opportunity on June 6, which is a Tuesday. But according to this New York Times article, instead of moving northeast, the storm over northern Scotland shifted southward into the North Sea, weakening as it did. This unexpected change allowed winds to ease slightly. Visibility improved as the front over northern France moved away. Is that your understanding, too?
- [12:51]
Critic/Commentator
Yeah.
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William Hitchcock (Historian)
They didn't predict what actually happened. But the essential thing is that Stagg predicted a break, a gap in this very bad storm that was happening on the fifth. And he was right about that. Now, the fact that he didn't predict exactly how the break would materialize is an indication of how little they really knew about forecasting. So, of course, in battle, you have to get lucky from time to time. And the Allies were lucky. They were enormously lucky, because if they had canceled the thing and waited two weeks as they had debated they would have invaded on June 19th or 20th, which would have been in the midst of a storm of the century, which would have been far worse than what happened on June 5th. So, you know, you're threading the needle no matter how well prepared you are. There's so many intangibles. The allies really got lucky in this case.
- [13:40]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
And this is because of the nature of the invasion. It was an oversea invasion. If this was a land battle, probably all these problems wouldn't have mattered as much.
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Critic/Commentator
Right.
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William Hitchcock (Historian)
It's an amphibious operation and it's one of enormous complexity. You know, this is what I think the movie kind of gets right, but could have a little bit more creatively really engaged with. So why is the weather so important? It's not just rain or wind. You accept a certain amount of that, but it's very important to understand the limitations of the tools available for the landing. So the first thing is, you know, those guys are going to hit the beaches off of Higgins boats. These are, these are like floating beer crates. They're flat bottomed, they don't have a keel. They got one guy in the back with an underpowered engine in the water. They're very shallow. So the whole idea is to get soldiers onto the beach quickly and get them off the boats quickly. But those boats cannot handle waves. They can't handle waves of any kind. They were designed in New Orle for shrimp fishing. I mean, they're not boats to handle the English Channel.
- [14:40]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
So a big storm means not mentioned in the movie.
- [14:42]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Yeah, all those guys wind up drowned if they go on June 5th. So that's one factor. Second thing again, why are the tides so important? They didn't talk about this in the movie. But the tides have to be at a certain exact configuration. That tides have to be out so that the guys coming onto the beaches can see all the obstacles, all the mines, all the tank traps. But the tide has to be coming in at that moment so that the subsequent waves will be landed closer to the cliffsides. So it's a very particular configuration that they need. The tides have to be out but rising, and then you can't land at night. Nobody can see the beaches if they land at night, so they have to land at dawn. So when is the moment where you get a dawn tide that is out but rising? Well, it's only a very, very narrow window of a couple of days. June 5th, June 6th. So there's all these configurations. And then the last thing which they again didn't talk about is the the need for some degree of light from the moon at night. They didn't emphasize this in the movie as much as they should have, but they wanted to have a moon because, of course, there's a huge wave of airborne landings that takes place just before the amphibious landings, and those airborne paratroops and gliders are coming in in the dark of night, and they want a moon so they can see the ground when they land. So, again, it's not like they could have just picked any date of the calendar. They really only had a few days,
- [16:00]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
very few days to choose from as it took place. The airborne operation was a fiasco scattered all over the place. But that also had the unintended benefit of confusing the Germans when the parachutists were scattered all over northern France. Yeah, a couple of the other stipulations, if you will. The weather had to be calm for 48 hours. So, yeah, they identified a window between June 5th and June 7th, and if it couldn't happen, then it would have to take another a couple of weeks because of the moon, the tides, everything you mentioned. For the three days following, the wind needed to stay below Beaufort Force 4, which is equivalent to a moderate breeze. Parachutists and other air support needed less than 30% cloud cover below 8,000ft, with a cloud base no lower than 2,500ft and visibility of over three miles. And as you said, a low tide at dawn to expose the German defenses. I mean, so much went wrong on D Day, even under perfect conditions. Right, William? This would have been a difficult invasion to pull.
- [17:01]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Oh, my God, have been and was a difficult invasion. A great deal went. Right. So you mentioned the airborne landings being a fiasco. Well, yes, they were. The American airborne landings were something of a fiasco around the Cotentin Peninsula, where their objective was to ultimately to get to the port of Cherbourg. But the British airborne landings were quite successful, and they came on the far eastern flank of the beaches, and it was the famous Ox and Bucks Light infantry that took that Pegasus bridge over the Caen Canal that was very important to stop the Germans from getting reinforcements to the beaches. So there was some success in the. In the airborne operation as a whole. One of the things for listeners to remember is that all of the exercises that they had done to prepare for D Day had revealed how risky the whole thing was. And we can go back to the Dieppe landings in August of 1942. I went to Dieppe for the first time this. This fall to the beach there, and, my goodness, you could not find A worse place to land. It's a shingle beach, meaning it' heavy rounded stones, no sand. So you get out of your landing craft and you can't move. It's kind of like walking in wet sand.
- [18:09]
Narrator/Voice Actor (Describing Canadian troops)
But even heavier silk, like mists, blanket a lifeless channel as a strong force of fearless Canadians, accompanied by British, American and Free French, breathlessly await daybreak in the grim job ahead, the job of invading the German held French coast. Dieppe is their battle objective and the hardy Canadians and their allies have been training for months for the danger.
- [18:33]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Dieppe was a disaster. The Canadians were trying essentially to probe German defenses. They were wiped out. There was evidence that amphibious landings were very, very vulnerable and likely to mess up in some way. And so again, they had no idea whether it would work or not on June 6th.
- [18:49]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
And if it hadn't, I mean, who knows how much longer it would have taken to open up a western front. You know, you had 150,000 men and you're trying to maintain the element of surprise. I mean, the Germans knew an invasion was coming, but they didn't know which day it was coming or where. You know, as it turns out, at the five beaches, only Omaha beach was really, really tough. People who watch Saving Private Ryan get the impression that everything was just a bloodbath because it's focusing on one sector of Omaha beach. But the other four beaches weren't as difficult.
- [19:23]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Yeah, that's right. I mean, Omaha was unlucky. Landing craft landed a little bit off target. The tanks that were supposed to accompany the landings almost all sank. So they had no artillery. They ran up against very skilled German units that were well defended. It was just a sequence of bad twists of fate. But what is amazing is that that was as bad as it got. And remember that even on Omaha, where casualties were highest, by noon of June 6, the Americans had fought their way up those draws up the hillsides and had seized a beachhead. So even in the worst case of the five beaches, the Americans pushed through. Things were more scattered and as a result, less intense at Utah and the British and Canadian landing beaches that were real casualties, but they were remarkably successful.
- [20:12]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
I'm going to share a passage from Antony Beaver's terrific book, D Day, the Battle for Normandy. Here's Antony Beaver, page 85, soaked in spray. British and American soldiers alike regretted their hearty breakfast for the condemned man. Many started throwing up chunks of corned beef from their sandwiches. The damp seasickness bags, which they rapidly filled, fell apart and some resorted to vomiting into their helmets. Then rinsing them out over the side when a wave came along. The Royal Navy forward observer, attached to the 50th Division, was faintly amused when a senior officer sitting majestically in his jeep became furious after soldiers were sick over the windward side and the results were blown back over him. The effects of seasickness, however, were far from funny. Men were exhausted by the time they reached the beaches. And now to your point about the tanks. Others who had good reason to feel queasy from fear were the crews of tanks about to launch into the sea. They were specially adapted in waterproofed or duplex drive Shermans with propellers and inflatable canvas screens. The idea of this new invention was to surprise the Germans by landing the tanks at the same time as the very first wave of infantry. Unrecognizable in the water, they would emerge to provide fire support against bunkers and gun emplacements. The tanks had not been designed for sea conditions as rough as this. Only the commander standing on the engine deck behind the turret was above water level. The rest of the crew remained inside, and the driver could see nothing but gray green murk through his periscope. That's scary.
- [21:47]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Yeah, A lot of those crews, I mean, I think at Omaha was something like 28 out of the 32 DD Sherman tanks sank. And of course, their crews were lost. And of course, the young men on the Higgins boats are watching this. They see what's happening. They know perfectly well the thing is. Going cockeyed, duchess, adds to the sense of fear and nausea that they were experiencing. I mean, again, the weather was not great. It was passable, but there was a huge chop. I've been to Normandy some years ago during what was almost a gale force wind. And it's a very inhospitable landscape. I mean, there is nowhere to hide, and those beaches are really exposed. So an awful lot of things had to go right that day for the whole thing to work. And you know, one thing I'll mention that the movie pressure couldn't really get into because it's such a narrowly, tightly written drama. The scene is so interior Ike the weather advisors and so on. But there were a lot of factors that led to Allied success that day that don't get mentioned either in this movie or, for that matter, in some of the other treatments that you might have seen on screen. One question is, well, where was the German air force? Why weren't they bombing the guys on the beaches? Well, that's the result of three years of fighting the German air force and destroying It. So Americans and allies had air superiority because they destroyed the Luftwaffe in the years leading up to D Day. Well, where are the German submarines? Same story. The Battle of the Atlantic had been won by the time of D Day, and D Day never could have happened had that not been that precondition been met. You ask, well, where was Rommel? Famously, and they get at this. In the Longest Day, German commanders thought, well, the weather's terrible. Nothing's going to happen. This week. Rommel was back in Germany. These are things that we know about and that are crucial to explaining the outcome of D Day, but are sometimes hard to portray in a film, but they are a big part of the story.
- [23:38]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Yeah, I watched Longest Day Yesterday, and it does dwell on the weather in the beginning of that movie. And then the focus later on with the Germans is how to divvy up the panzers, keep them in reserve or keep them at the front. They say then that Hitler really has to give the okay, and he was asleep when the invasion happened and no one wanted to wake him up. I'm not sure how accurate the Longest Day was.
- [24:00]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Oh, very much so, yeah. I mean, all of that is part of the story. The bumbling German decision making gave the the landings an extra 12 hours at least, which is really all they needed was just a little buffer to get further onto the beachheads fighting a totalitarian army. In some ways, the Nazi forces were better, better trained, more disciplined, but they were so highly hierarchical that local commanders had their hands tied. Famous weakness of the Nazi war machine.
- [24:26]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
The invasion may have been thrown back into the sea if those panzers were available. You mentioned the British airborne operation that is also depicted in the Longest Day, the glider attack on that bridge.
- [24:37]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Smoke up the action.
- [24:42]
Critic/Commentator
Box up the action.
- [24:49]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
For a 1962 movie. It still holds up pretty well.
- [24:52]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Oh, it absolutely does. It's wonderful. And I mean, trying to capture this on film is incredibly difficult. You know, the technologies available when they made the Longest Day were pretty limited. And you compare that to Saving Private Ryan and those opening 20 minutes, I don't think anyone will ever come close to capturing the realities of what D Day must have been like, as did that film. Saving Private Ryan did so well. But at the end of the day, it is about individuals and decision making and from every soldier to the highest commanders. And that is something I like about pressure, in that it really distills down the essence of decision. Like, the end of the day, someone has to say, well, let's do it or let's not. And Eisenhower famously says, okay, let's go. Boy, you know, these are moments where the history turns tap.
- [25:35]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Subscribe now in the show Notes to skip ads, get early access and enjoy all of our bonus content or go to history as it happens.com.
- [25:58]
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- [26:30]
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- [26:59]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
And that term you used before about the beaches shingle, you know, I never knew what that meant because in Saving Private Ryan, they're trying to break through the barrier at Omaha beach and they're using bangalore torpedoes and they shout, clear the shingle because they have to get through there and they blast it open.
- [27:19]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Bangalores.
- [27:21]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
Clear the shingles.
- [27:23]
Critic/Commentator
Fire the hole.
- [27:24]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Fire now.
- [27:25]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
Fire the hull.
- [27:34]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
So about pressure. Who was James Stagg? How did he get into that position? He was not in the military.
- [27:41]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
No, Stagg was a schoolteacher. I think he was a. He was a science teacher into the early twenties, and he joined the British Meteorological Office in the mid twenties. He was not a soldier or an airman, and he was given a temporary rank as a group captain. So the movie Captures doesn't explain, but sort of captures his awkwardness around the military hierarchy that he encounters at Southwark House, where Eisenhower's headquarters are located. And, you know, he comes in as a tongue tied sort of emotionless Scot, and he encounters a military command that, you know, very hierarchical but also in which Eisenhower has favorites. And one of the favorites is the American meteorological guy. You get this sense of the cultures colliding a little bit, which again, I really Like, I mean, D Day was a. Was an Allied undertaking. It was multinational. Not just us and Britain, but also, of course, Canadians, Norwegians, Poles, Free French. And so Stagg, being an outsider, not a military officer by training, he's a Scot. So he's got that going against him within some of the British elite circles. He has to sort of figure out, how do I penetrate this circle around Eisenhower and deliver the news that I have, this scientific news that I have. And I like the way that they capture his character. Sure.
- [28:54]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Andrew Scott, the actor, plays Chief Meteorological Officer James Stagg. Brendan Fraser as General Dwight Eisenhower, and the American meteorologist you alluded to there, William. That was Chris Messina, the actor playing Colonel Irving Crick, who does seem like a cartoon character type of name. Right?
- [29:13]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Colonel Crick, almost like Colonel Klink.
- [29:16]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
And he's arrogant and he's wrong. But apparently this is true to life that he had a different way of predicting the weather, and he was very boastful of his record in the past. But of course, it's easy to predict the weather in North Africa, as is mentioned in the movie. I'm gonna play clip of the film right now. This is a key scene in the movie where all the important players are gathered together about to make a decision. And Crick gives his presentation about the weather. And then the actor Andrew Scott, playing James Stagg, gives his rebuttal.
- [29:48]
Actor Andrew Scott as James Stagg
You want to believe that what Colonel Crick just said, that it's going to be safe to land in Normandy tomorrow, and so that's what you believe. But everything that he's just said is pure, unadulterated horseshit. You can muster all the tanks and soldiers and ships that you like. You can assemble the greatest armada that ever there was, but if you invade tomorrow, they're going to be washed away, because the storms that I'm talking about are real, and the jet stream that's propelling them towards the Normandy coast is real, and the wrath of nature. Is real. And if you ignore it, then countless men and countless boys.
- [30:52]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
And in that scene, the camera focuses in on Brendan Fraser's face. You could tell the pressure is starting to get to everybody. William, what did you think of Brendan Fraser as Eisenhower?
- [31:03]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Well, I'll be honest with you, I thought this was one of the major flaws of the film. I'm not quite sure why they chose to cast him in the role of Eisenhower. It's not a question of does he look like Eisenhower? I mean, Eisenhower, you know, is a kind of an unusual looking person. You don't need to capture a simulacrum. But Fraser is enormous. I mean, he's 6 4. Eisenhower was 5 10, and Eisenhower weighed about 175 pounds. He was quite slight, especially by this time in his life. He's in his mid-50s. Fraser is huge and powerful and he towers over people and he raises his voice a lot and he throws things on the ground and he pounds his fist on the table.
- [31:41]
Actor Brendan Fraser as Eisenhower
300,000 men with families that they may never see again. Why should I trust?
- [31:49]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
As far as I know, and I've studied Ike for a long time, that's completely different from Eisenhower's nature. Yes, Eisenhower had a famous temper, but what made him so compelling was that he knew how to control it. And he had great self mastery. He never lost his dignity, didn't lose his demeanor. He had enormous charisma, but not because he shouted, but simply because of his integrity and his kind of his presence. So Fraser was a little bit of a big bull in a china shop. I don't think that quite captures the way Eisenhower earned the loyalty of those around him. It was not by shouting. I'll just also say that they took dramatic license here when they introduced Kay Summersby as Eisenhower's chief, you know, secretary. Not just secretary, but sort of aide de camp and, you know, assistant to the commander. Because Kay Somersby was a driver, she didn't do anything more than drive. No, she did live with Eisenhower in Telegraph Cottage near London during the year before D Day because she looked after his household. She later claimed they had a kind of amorous understanding. But none of that has ever been proven. And in any case, I thought it was a kind of silly device to elevate Kay Somersby from driver to an essential part of the team that decided to invade France. Took a little liberties there, I thought, so.
- [33:07]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Here's Brendan Fraser as Eisenhower talking to the meteorologist James Daniel.
- [33:12]
Actor Brendan Fraser as Eisenhower
Fate of the war hinges on this. All the pieces of the jigsaw are in place. There's only one imponderable that remains. I need a forecast.
- [33:25]
Actor Andrew Scott as James Stagg
I'm. Yes, I'm concerned that what you're asking me is scientifically impossible, sir. Long term forecasting is really only ever educated guesswork.
- [33:34]
Actor Brendan Fraser as Eisenhower
Monday is not long term for Chris at this moment. These sound like long term, do you?
- [33:38]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Look, Janet, summer speed.
- [33:39]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
No, it certainly does not, sir.
- [33:41]
Actor Andrew Scott as James Stagg
Well, this is northern Europe, sir. Anything over 24 hours is considered long term, meteorologically speaking.
- [33:48]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
So, yeah, I found that Ike, as he was portrayed in this movie, was a bit of a bully. Yeah. Shouted a bit Also Brendan Fraser when he's reading the pre invasion radio address to the men. Right, this is the famous the eyes of the world are upon you. His voice is just too, too big, too overwhelming. Ike had a more raspy, less dramatic delivery.
- [34:13]
Actor Brendan Fraser as Eisenhower
Soldiers, sailors and airmen, you are about to embark upon the great crusade. The eyes of the world are upon you.
- [34:23]
General Dwight Eisenhower (Actor Brendan Fraser)
Soldiers, sailors and airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force, you are about to embark upon the great crusade toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you.
- [34:36]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Yeah, no, you're right about that too. And he's almost shouting this is part of the great crusade. And so forth. But really in those days, you know, this is almost a century ago, people were much more self controlled, I think, operated much more tightly wound. Eisenhower did, of course, you know, occasionally lose his top, but no evidence that he did so in Southwark House on the eve of the great invasion. And they also use a bit of a caricature of Montgomery, who comes along, played by Damian Lewis. And you know, Monty is so easy to lampoon with his funny accent and his ego, but Damian Lewis goes even a little over the top. The character Monty is constantly reminding Eisenhower that he's never been in battle, that he's. That he's never really been a battle general. People said that behind Eisenhower's back. But the idea that Montgomery would try to humiliate Eisenhower in front of the others by reminding people that he hadn't been in combat himself is a bit of a stretch. It's just implausible.
- [35:35]
Actor Damian Lewis as Montgomery
We must go regardless. This moment demands judgment shaped by actual battlefield experience. We can't risk another Exercise Tiger. My men are ready and primed for the big match. Get them onto the beaches somehow. Anyhow, leave the rest to me.
- [36:00]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
You know, movies always take dramatic license, artistic license, and that doesn't bother me too much. However, when the real story is already fascinating, there's no need to invent anything. Yeah. So the movie begins with Exorcise Tiger. I learned about this from reading Paul Fussell. Or is it Fusel? Paul Fussell's books on war. 700 soldiers died in a training accident. Mostly forgotten now. And I actually kind of forgot about it until I saw the movie. Tell us about Exercise Tiger.
- [36:32]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Right, well, this is another one of those data points that the Allies had that made them fear that the actual D Day landings might be a disaster. Because every time they tried to do this, it ended up in difficulty. And by the way, they'd used amphibious landings in Italy and gotten better at it. But even there they had all kinds of difficulties. So Exercise Tiger. Operation Tiger was a rehearsal, a planned rehearsal a couple of months before the June 6 landings to figure out, you know, how to actually train these guys to do amphibious coordinated landings. They needed soldiers and sailors to work together. It was held off of a Slapton sands in Devon and in the south southeast of England. It was a training exercise with very large numbers of troops. In order to create verisimilitude, the Navy fired real rounds onto the beaches, inadvertently killing a number of American soldiers who were part of the exercise. However, one thing the movie fails to point out is that the overwhelming number of casualties came not from American friendly fire, but because the German torpedo boats discovered the exercise by sheer chance. They pounced and sank a couple of the large landing craft vessels that had a couple of, I think 700 or so soldiers and sailors on them. And so these were battle casualties. I mean, it wasn't entirely the result of friendly fire or accident. The movie doesn't point that out. Nonetheless, it's a huge reminder that things can go wrong and that young men are going to die in this operation. And imagine knowing that and yet still having to go forward day after day after day, sending these young people to their deaths for the larger cause. And that's exactly what I think the movie brings out.
- [38:14]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Roosevelt suggested to Stalin in 1942 that a second front in France might be possible. What do you think? Impossible.
- [38:25]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Totally impossible. I want to just say one thing about Roosevelt. You mentioned Roosevelt in the context of the grand strategy of the war. Roosevelt is never mentioned in the movie. Yeah, to be sure, Eisenhower is the man of the moment. He gets the bulk of the attention. But I think it's quite interesting. Increasingly, I think In World War II movies, the supreme commander, the genuine commander in chief, President of the United States, is not mentioned. And I think we forget that Roosevelt actually was very much involved in choosing the leaders who would carry out the successful invasions both in Asia and in Europe. Landing in 42. No way. And interestingly, one of the great heroes of World War II in the American side, George Marshall, was an advocate of, of trying to get a second front in France as quickly as possible. And it was the British who said, you'll never do it. It's way too difficult. We have to start small. Let's go to North Africa first. Marshall said, hell no, there are no Germans in North Africa. We want to go where the Germans are. And that means France and Germany. And the British said, you don't have the abilities, you don't have the landing Craft, you don't have the soldiers. These German troops are really good and so forth. And it was a very difficult debate that Roosevelt resolved in favor of the British. And he said, all right, we're going to go to North Africa. And then, of course, they would have to go to Italy, delaying an opening in France until 1944, much to Stalin's
- [39:45]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
frustration, because there's always been a debate among historians about whether going up the spine of Italy was necessary, whether that hastened the end of the war, hastened the German defeat. What is your take on that? Because at the same time, the Allies weren't ready to invade France before 44.
- [40:04]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Yeah. It's not a choice of Italy versus Normandy, because in middle of 1943, when they're beginning to jump from North Africa into the boot of Italy, the Allies still don't have the capacity to undertake what they would undertake in June 1944. There really was no other front in Europe where they could get at the Germans. The Italian campaign did not significantly shorten the war. It was a. A gigantic waste of effort. It's not as if there was a better alternative around the corner. And that's because they hadn't had the buildup in Britain yet. They hadn't had the development of enough landing craft. They didn't have control of the air. All of those prerequisites. They hadn't won the Battle of the Atlantic yet. All of those prerequisites not in place yet until the spring of 1944. And when they do have those things, they go, and it's a big success. And I just think there's always been criticism of the way in which the Allies were so late to get onto the continent, but there really weren't very many shortcuts to be had.
- [41:03]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
As you said earlier attempts ended in disaster. Dieppe, which is another largely forgotten episode in the war. I mean, at least in public memory, not among historians, but, you know, it's the Saving Private Ryanization of our memory that elevates small unit combat as decisive in a global war where hundreds of millions of people have been mobilized, entire societies mobilized. The bigger picture here in the Second World War, 1944 unfolds, and the Allies are starting to get the upper hand, or they probably already have the upper hand, but still, the war is not close to being over. On the Eastern Front, the Red army is making massive advances against the Wehrmacht, really destroying the Wehrmacht on the Eastern front. Ultimately, as 1944 unfolds on the Western side, us British, Canadians, there's basically a consensus Right. That they have to get into France this year, but it's a question of when. So how do they arrive at June, broadly speaking?
- [42:03]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Well, that has a lot to do with are they ready to undertake an enormous cross Channel invasion? And it has a lot to do with trying to get the Germans before they can continue to reinforce the West Wall, Hitler's enormous array of defenses along the coastline, which they're readily building up. And so there's pressure coming from the operational side as well as the grand strategic side. The Soviets in June of 1944 launched the enormous Operation Bagration, which will carry them into the heart of Central Europe.
- [42:35]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
And one of the largest battles ever,
- [42:37]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
just Titanic on a scale that dwarfs anything that happens at Normandy. So you want to be there to help the Soviets, but on the other hand you want to make sure the Soviets don't win the war by themselves. This element of the calculation doesn't get quite enough attention. But just consider where the strategic picture is in June 1944. And then let's say that the D Day landings fail and Stalin is still carrying out his enormous invasion to carry through from Poland into Germany. It wouldn't be two weeks, probably wouldn't be one month, when there would be a second effort to land in Normandy. Because let's say the landings had failed, well, then that means you'd lost all those soldiers and you'd lost all those landing craft left. They could not be replaced easily. It might be another year before you get another shot at landing in Normandy. By that time, Stalin would have made it to Berlin, he would have won the war alone, and possibly he would have kept right on going to Paris or to Rome. So you get possibly, I'm just speculating here, the Sovietization of all of Europe as a result of a failed landing in June 1944.
- [43:42]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Possibility was on their minds, there's no doubt about it.
- [43:45]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Yeah, I mean, they could see that it was actually Churchill who kept on talking about restoring the balance of power in Europe. And that's in a sense what D Day represented, was if the Americans and British would fight their way to Berlin, they could share the spoils. And if they didn't get there in time, the Russians would take all the spoils and we begin to see the Cold War emerging in these calculations. So, yes, saving Private Ryan tends to focus too much on a few individuals on the beach and what it takes to get up off the beach and carry on. But, but thousands of individual decisions led to the success of D Day. And without success of D Day, maybe you don't get a free Western Europe throughout the entire Cold War. So individuals do matter.
- [44:23]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
Yes.
- [44:24]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Five beaches and Omaha was in the middle. So you had sword, gold, Juno. Those are the British and Canadian beaches on the eastern side. Utah and Omaha on the western side of the Normandy front. Omaha being in the middle, you wouldn't have been able to link up the beachheads. But we know that after a day or so, the Allies have taken the beaches, they've established a beachhead. But then what happens after that is really difficult. Breaking out of Normandy, right. It takes two months or so, maybe 10 weeks to get to Paris, right?
- [44:57]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Quite right. No, it's not until the end of August that the breakout really happens. And there is a huge expenditure of life by the Allies and of course, killing lots and lots of Germans as well as French civilians. In Normandy, almost three months of fighting unfold in the summer of 1944. All the advantages that the Americans and British have in air power and supplies, it takes time for them to tell. And the British fight in front of Caen for weeks and weeks and weeks, and they end up taking the city late in July, but it's largely destroyed. But it's the Americans that break out into Brittany and then they encircle the German forces in Normandy. The famous Falaise Gap is created where thousands of Germans are killed. Many get away, but nonetheless, it's a race now to the German border and Paris is liberated. In late August, General Leclerc, leader of
- [45:44]
Narrator/Voice Actor (Describing Canadian troops)
the liberating force himself, drove in with his column. And for the leading elements of a British force, there was another terrific welcome. Tommy was back in Paris, and the Parisians, who knew how Britain had been fighting, the Bosch on every front, in defeat and in victory, said it with cheers and with kisses. The children have made American flags from
- [46:07]
General Dwight Eisenhower (Actor Brendan Fraser)
paper, coloring them with watercolors. They've learned a song to honor our boys.
- [46:19]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
You know, the amount of fighting that lay ahead after D Day, a full year of very difficult fighting. We often tend to think, well, it was all over, right? I mean, it was now. The war was wonderful. Nope, not at all. Took another year of bitter combat.
- [46:32]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
So where do you fall on the debate as to how the Western Allies handled the push into Germany? Because after the liberation of Paris and the Germans are pushed completely out of France on the Western Front, the first crossings into Germany happen in September of 1944. But don't things slow down quite a bit? I mean, the Rhine isn't crossed until the following March.
- [46:55]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Yeah, things slow down. I mean, the weather is a problem. It gets You've got winter, you're fighting in Belgium and along the hilly, forested sort of natural defenses getting from France into Germany. Another factor that we tend to forget is for all the talk of American abundance and strength, American infantry was running low on troops. I mean, the replacement numbers were low. The casualties were very high. Injuries were very high. Frostbite was a huge problem. Many American soldiers poorly equipped for winter warfare. Venereal disease was taking a large percentage of soldiers out of the front line. I mean, they didn't get the shipping lanes open into the Netherlands until very late. So a lot of their fuel and ammo had to come in on trucks from the landing beaches all throughout late 44 into early 45. So again, it's such a huge operation. There are many difficulties that the Americans have to overcome. And only slowly do they master the situation and gradually grind the Germans down. But there was no shortcut. Monty kept saying, oh, yes, just thin pencil, thrust to Berlin and we'll end the war. Nonsense. Could never have happened.
- [48:00]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Well, there was Operation Market Garden to try to open up, and that was.
- [48:03]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Which was, of course, another fiasco in which Monty was involved.
- [48:07]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
You ever see the movie When Trumpets Fade?
- [48:10]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
No.
- [48:11]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
About the battle of the Hurricane Forest. It was a made for HBO movie. Came out around the same time as Saving Private Ryan. It is my favorite World War II movie because it is so grim and it is so realistic. As far as you know, there's no glory. There's a minimal amount of that. I often refer to it as the anti Saving Private Ryan.
- [48:30]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
How interesting. Well, that was a low point for sure in the year fighting from Normandy to Berlin.
- [48:38]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Yeah, it's a forgotten battle because it's the only one the Allies lost on the Western Front.
- [48:43]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Well, and Paul Fussel, who you mentioned, writes about that part of the campaign as being some of the most difficult and awful that anyone experienced. So it does tend to be forgotten. Why do they leave them there like that?
- [48:56]
Soldier Character from When Trumpets Fade
Fucking brass. They don't want to waste the trucks on the dead. They still got more guys to haul in for the slaughter.
- [49:02]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
No more room in hell.
- [49:04]
Soldier Character from When Trumpets Fade
What are you talking about? There's plenty of room. All they gotta do is stack them higher.
- [49:09]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
How many do you think?
- [49:11]
Soldier Character from When Trumpets Fade
Hundreds. That's just in the last five days. How can they let this happen and still pretend to be human beings? I haven't seen one of those sick fucks over rank a captain here since I've been up here. They're looking at points on a map. Not one of them has a fucking clue what's going on up here. Shit flows down Goddamn right. Regiment wipes its ass with battalion, battalion wipes his ass clean with company, and we're left elected off of them.
- [49:39]
Martin DeCaro (Host)
Mark my words.
- [49:42]
Soldier Character from When Trumpets Fade
They're going to keep sending us in until the whole division is gone.
- [49:47]
William Hitchcock (Historian)
Not me. Bed pan.
- [49:55]
Narrator (History as it Happens)
And that was from the 1998 film When Trumpets Fade, which I refer to as the anti Saving Private Ryan. And on the next episode of History As It Happens, we'll have a special guest, former host of NBC's Meet the Press, Chuck Todd. He'll be here to discuss how coverage of the presidency has changed over time. That is next, as we report History as it Happens. Make sure to sign up for my free newsletter. Just go to Substack and search for History As It Happens.
- [50:53]
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