Otto The Great Overthrows The Pope

Summary

History Daily — “Otto the Great Overthrows The Pope”
Date: November 6, 2025
Host: Lindsey Graham

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Episode Overview

This episode transports listeners to November 6, 963 CE, chronicling the extraordinary moment when King Otto I—known as “Otto the Great”—overthrew Pope John XII. Through gripping narration, Lindsey Graham explores the ambitions, betrayals, and power plays between Otto and the papacy, underscoring a pivotal turn in both European and Church history: for the first time, a secular ruler deposed a reigning Pope, reshaping the relationship between the Holy Roman Empire and the Vatican.

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Key Discussion Points & Timeline

The Rise of Otto the Great

[00:00 - 03:48]

• Introduction to Otto’s Reign:

  • Opens with Otto confronting Hungarian raiders in 955 CE near Augsburg, wielding the legendary Holy Lance.
  • Otto’s victory ends decades of Hungarian incursions and cements his reputation, earning him the title “Otto the Great.”
  • Sets up Otto as the dominant force in Central Europe, poised for even greater ambitions.

• Contextual Quote:

  • “This victory makes him the most powerful king in Central Europe and is so decisive that it earns him a new title, Otto the Great.” — Lindsey Graham, [00:53]

Otto’s Ambitions & Papal Politics

[03:48 - 11:58]

• Securing Succession:

  • Otto makes his six-year-old son joint-king to cement the dynasty ahead of his campaign in Rome.

• The Alliance with Pope John XII:

  • Pope John XII, only 23, seeks Otto’s aid to reclaim papal lands after repeated failures.
  • In exchange, the Pope promises Otto the imperial crown—echoing Charlemagne’s past.

• Rome’s Decay and the Papal Bargain:

  • Otto finds Rome in decline, “vines cover the once impressive walls…cattle roam through the crumbling amphitheaters.” — Lindsey Graham, [07:25]
  • John XII’s debauched lifestyle shocks Otto:

    “He drinks heavily and boasts shamelessly of his sexual exploits. This unholy behavior shocks Otto, and he vows to do something about it when he becomes Emperor.” — Lindsey Graham, [08:07]

• Otto Crowned Holy Roman Emperor:

  • Pope John XII crowns Otto on January 31, 962 CE.
  • A decree is issued: future popes must swear loyalty to the Emperor, giving Otto leverage over the papacy.
  • Tensions simmer, as Pope John believes he can still control Otto.

Betrayal and the Siege of San Leo

[11:58 - 17:37]

• Betrayal by Pope John XII:

  • During Otto’s siege of Berengar’s fortress at San Leo, news arrives: Pope John has betrayed Otto, siding with his enemies.

• Otto’s Response:

  • Otto is furious, stating:

    “Such a treacherous and unholy man cannot protect Christendom. With God as his witness, Otto announces that he will do something about it.” — Lindsey Graham, [13:28]

  • Splits his army; returns to Rome to confront the Pope.

• Pope John Flees:

  • On Otto’s arrival, the Pope flees Rome with treasures.
  • Otto promises the clergy safety and plans to depose John formally rather than capturing him.

The Trial and Deposition of Pope John XII

[17:37 - 21:39]

• The Synod of November 963:

  • Otto convenes a synod at St. Peter’s Basilica; brings together clergy and nobles.
  • Pope John is charged with “conspiracy, adultery, and blasphemy” but refuses to attend and vows to excommunicate participants.

  "Never before has a Holy Roman Emperor removed a reigning pope. It’s a profound assertion of political power over spiritual authority." — Lindsey Graham, [19:11]

• Deposition and Appointment:

  • Pope John XII is formally deposed.
  • Otto selects Leo VIII, a papal bureaucrat with no priestly experience, as the new Pope—a direct assertion of imperial control.

  "Within a matter of hours, Otto’s handpicked candidate Leo is ordained as a priest and then promoted through the ranks, until he is finally consecrated as Bishop of Rome." — Lindsey Graham, [19:46]

Aftermath and Legacy

[21:39 - End]

• John’s Brief Rebellion:

  • After Otto departs Italy, John XII attempts to reclaim the papacy with support from Italian clergy.
  • Pope Leo VIII flees, but before Otto can return to restore order, John dies suddenly—perhaps by stroke, perhaps murder.

• Resolution and Otto’s Triumph:

  • Otto reinstates Leo VIII, returns triumphant to East Francia.
  • His young son is also made co-emperor, securing the dynasty and empire for a generation.

  “He not only controls much of Germany and Italy, but also the Roman Church itself—after deposing a Pope and appointing his own, on November 6, 963 CE.” — Lindsey Graham, [21:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Crying above the hiss of arrows, Otto urges his men to defeat their enemy in the name of God. And then, with a roar, he charges into battle..." — Lindsey Graham, [00:35]
• “He drinks heavily and boasts shamelessly of his sexual exploits. This unholy behavior shocks Otto, and he vows to do something about it when he becomes Emperor.” — [08:07]
• “Never before has a Holy Roman Emperor removed a reigning pope. It’s a profound assertion of political power over spiritual authority.” — [19:11]

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Key Timestamps

• [00:00] — Dramatic account of Battle of Lechfeld; Otto’s initial rise.
• [03:48] — Otto’s son crowned; Otto’s alliance with Pope John begins.
• [07:25] — Describes decrepit Rome and the Pope's debauchery.
• [08:34] — Otto crowned Holy Roman Emperor; terms of alliance set.
• [13:28] — Otto learns of Pope John’s betrayal; vows retribution.
• [17:37] — The synod to depose Pope John XII; unprecedented removal.
• [19:46] — Appointment and ordination of Leo VIII; imperial control of papacy.
• [21:29] — Otto’s lasting legacy; domination over both secular and spiritual realms.

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Episode Tone

Lindsey Graham’s narration is evocative and immersive, combining dramatic historical storytelling with clear, concise analysis. The tone is suspenseful and authoritative, capturing both the grandeur of medieval intrigue and the personal dimensions of power, betrayal, and ambition.

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Summary Useful For:
Listeners seeking a vivid retelling of a watershed moment in medieval history—Otto the Great’s assertion of imperial authority over the papacy—will find this episode insightful, gripping, and rich in historical context. The episode stands out for its seamless blending of political drama, character-driven vignettes, and the seismic shift it narrates in the relationship between Emperor and Church.

Transcript

[Lindsey Graham]

There are more ways than ever to listen to History Daily ad free. Listen with Wondry plus in the Wondery app as a member of Noiser plus at noiser.com or in Apple Podcasts. Or you can get all of History Daily plus other fantastic history [e-mail] it's the morning of August 10th, 955 CE, near the city of Augsburg in what's Now Southern Germany. 42 year old King Otto of East Francia raises his shield as enemy arrows rain down from the sky. Across the muddy battlefield, mounted archers ride back and forth, unleashing volleys at Otto's men before darting back. But Otto's disciplined forces hold their ground and await their king's command. For over half a century, Hungarian warbands have been raiding and pillaging the eastern borders of Otto's kingdom. But now, Otto has had enough. He's mobilized an army to destroy the raiders once and for all. Otto waits for the perfect moment to strike. Then he lifts a special relic above his head. The Holy Lance. The spear believed to have pierced the side of Jesus Christ during his crucifixion. Crying above the hiss of arrows, Otto urges his men to defeat their enemy in the name of God. And then, with a roar, he charges into battle, backed with galloping warhorses and the unwavering faith of his men. This battle quickly becomes a slaughter. The Hungarian war bands are shattered, and those who aren't killed in battle are soon executed on King Otto's orders. This victory makes him the most powerful king in Central Europe and is so decisive that it earns him a new title, Otto the Great. Yet trouble is brewing on the horizon. In Rome, the young Pope John XII is struggling in his fight against an alliance of Italian nobles, and Otto will answer his call for help. But their partnership will quickly fracture and Otto will take the unprecedented step of overthrowing the Pope. On November 6th, 963 CE.

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[Lindsey Graham]

From Noiser and Airship I'm Lindsey Graham and this is History. Daily History is made every day on this podcast. Every day we tell the true stories of the people and events that shaped our world. Today is November 6th, 963 CE. Otto the Great overthrows the Pope. It's May 961 CE inside Aachen Cathedral in East Francia, six years after Otto the Great defeated the Hungarians. Coils of incense smoke swirl through the candlelit chamber as Otto proudly watches his six year old son take his seat on a marble throne. The boy's feet barely touch the ground and he struggles under the weight of his robes and the gem studded crown on his head. But this child is now king and all the nobles in the cathedral rise to acclaim him. No one is fooled, though they know exactly who is still really in charge. For the past 25 years, Otto has steadily consolidated his rule over East Francia. And despite his success at home and on the battlefield, he knows that many of the lords and noblemen who profess loyalty to him in fact dream of succeeding him one day. That's why Otto has taken the unusual step of making his young son joint ruler with him. He hopes this move will secure his line because Otto has a dangerous journey ahead of him. He's marching his army to Rome at the request of Pope John XII. A brash 23 year old Pope John wants to reclaim all the Papal States, historical territories that were once directly governed by the Papacy. But an attack on the Dukes of Southern Italy has failed, and now Rome is surrounded by enemies. Only Otto can save John now. And in return for his help, the Pope promises to crown him with the greatest title in all of Christendom. Holy Roman Emperor. It's a title that was held by Otto's ancestor Charlemagne, who marched to Rome 150 years ago. Now Otto is determined to follow in his footsteps. So with his son anointed as co regent in August961ce, Otto takes his army over the Alps and into northern Italy. As he advances, the Pope's enemies flee. And by Christmas, Otto is nearing Rome. There, the Pope invites him into the city to be crowned Holy Roman Emperor. But there is a catch. The Pope's enemies have only fled. They've not yet been defeated. The most powerful of them, Berengar, is in his mountain fortress of San Leo, biding his time and waiting for the right moment to strike back. So Pope John will only crown Otto as Holy Roman Emperor, provided that Otto promises to then destroy Berengar. Otto agrees, and on January 31st, 962 CE, he enters Rome. The city is far from its imperial glory days. Vines cover the once impressive walls, slums spill out of ancient temples, and cattle roam through the crumbling amphitheaters. But it is still the heart of Christianity, and a delegation of robed cardinals is waiting to escort Otto into the papal palace. That evening, Pope John invites Otto to a lavish banquet. Otto has heard that John is more a debauched prince than a holy priest and hopes to find that the gossip isn't true. But the young Pope John quickly confirms all the worst rumors about him. He drinks heavily and boasts shamelessly of his sexual exploits. This unholy behavior shocks Otto, and he vows to do something about it when he becomes Emperor. But until the crown is on his head, he keeps those thoughts to himself. Two days later, Otto kneels before Pope John at the altar in St. Peter's Basilica. As Latin prayers echo through the chamber, Otto takes a solemn oath to protect the Church and uphold the Christian faith. Then the Pope raises a vessel of holy oil for all to see and pours it onto Otto's bowed head. The old king of East Francia rises as the new Holy Roman Emperor. After this coronation, Pope John and Emperor Otto issue a joint decree. It reiterates the Pope's claims on disputed land in Italy. But more importantly, as far as Otto is concerned, it declares that all future popes will have to swear their allegiance to the Holy Roman Emperor before they can take the post. This effectively gives Otto power over the papacy. But Pope John doesn't see it that way. He's already the Pope, after all, and thinks that he will be the one controlling Otto. So he tells Otto that the time has come for him to keep his side of the bargain. He must destroy Berengar. But as Otto leads his army out of Rome, Pope John will begin to think he's made a terrible mistake. Fearing Otto's power, he will make a dramatic reversal, courting his old enemies and plotting the downfall of the newly crowned Holy Rome. History Daily is sponsored by Indeed My business is a bit peculiar. There are way more ordinary ways to make a living than podcasting, for sure. But when it comes to hiring, though, the skills are different. The needs are the same. 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[Lindsey Graham]

It'S mid October 963 CE in the mountains of northern Italy, a year and a half after Otto the Great's coronation as Holy Roman Emperor. On a rocky plateau at the base of San Leo Fortress, Otto casts a weary look over his bedraggled army. His men sit in clusters, stoking fires and sharpening their weapons. Their faces are gaunt and caked in dust. The summer that's just gone by was a great brutal one, unaccustomed to the scorching Italian heat. Many of Otto's men died on the mountainside, but victory must be close now. They've been laying siege to San Leo for over a year, and the defenders can't have much food left. It's only a matter of time before the fortress surrenders. But then suddenly, a cloud of dust on the mountain road below announces the approach of a rider. It's a messenger for Otto, and he has bad news. Otto's ally, Pope John xii, has betrayed him. He's joined forces with the enemy and is planning to attack Otto's army from behind to relieve the siege of San Leo. Otto is furious, and he quickly convenes a council of war. This is not the first troubling report he's heard from Rome since he arrived in Italy and was crowned Holy Roman Emperor. After his coronation, Otto tried to take the young Pope John under his Wing and teach him decency and morality for the sake of Christians everywhere. But John has continued his life of debauchery in Rome, insisting that Otto has no power over him and that he answers to God alone. So in his tent, over candlelight, Otto discusses this latest betrayal with his generals. Shaking with anger, he says that such a treacherous and unholy man cannot protect Christendom. With God as his witness, Otto announces that he will do so. Something about it. He will split his army in two. Half will remain camped outside the fortress to continue the siege. Meanwhile, he will personally lead the other half back to Rome, where he will put Pope John on trial for his crimes and replace him with someone more worthy of the papacy. Leaving the siege behind, Otto marches south. He expects to have to fight his way into Rome, but when he reaches the city, the gates are opened for him and the guards welcome him in. Otto rides straight for the pope's residence, where he's greeted by a flock of agitated cardinals. They tell him that Pope John is gone. When he heard that Otto was coming, he tried to rally the city behind him, donning his finest armor and scaling the walls to lead the defense. But the people of Rome refused to join him, and John lost his nerve. He hastily plundered St. Peter's Basilica and then fled the city with as much treasure as he could carry. Knowing what he does about Pope John, none of this is a surprise to Otto, and he reassures the cardinals that they will not be harmed. He isn't here to punish them. He is here to restore godliness to the Vatican. Soon, Otto learns that Pope John is in Tivoli, a fortified papal residence east of Rome. Otto weighs his options carefully. Storming this huge castle and capturing Pope John would be difficult and time consuming. And the last thing Rome's clergy want is the defeated pope led through the streets in chains. That would destroy the authority of the papacy in the eyes of the people. So Otto opts for a more formal approach. He decides to convene a synod of the church, a gathering of the clergy that will decide Pope John's fate. Hearing this, some cardinals grumble that Otto doesn't have the authority to call such a meeting. But with Otto's army occupying the city, their complaints don't last too long. And as preparations are made for the synod, Otto quietly begins a search for a new pope. Recently, the papacy has been decided by the Italian nobility, almost as a prize that has been traded between the great houses for favor and influence. But Otto wants someone who will be loyal to him instead. So eventually A modestly dressed papal bureaucrat is brought before the Emperor. This 48 year old has no ecclesiastical training. He is not even a priest. But in Otto's eyes, he's perfect. With his candidate chosen, Otto prepares to meet the clergy of Rome and The synod of November 963ce will be like no other in history. It will depose one pope and elevate another. And it will confirm Otto the Great as the most powerful man in Europe.

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[Lindsey Graham]

It's November 6, 963 CE inside St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, a week after Otto the Great returned to the city. Draped in golden imperial robes, Otto rises to his feet and the Grand Chamber falls silent. He looks over the gathering of Frankish clergy, Italian cardinals and Roman noblemen. They've all come together at Otto's command to put Pope John XII on trial. Otto outlines the charges against the young pope conspiracy, adultery and blasphemy. But Pope John is not there to hear the accusations. He refuses to return to Rome, dismissing Otto's authority and and vowing to excommunicate anyone who takes part in the synod. Soatto continues the trial without him, and after hearing a month of damning evidence, the synod formally deposes Pope John on 12-1-963. This decision is without precedent. Never before has a Holy Roman Emperor removed a reigning pope. It's a profound assertion of political power over spiritual authority, and Otto isn't done yet. A few days later, Otto announces John's successor will be Pope Leo viii. He knows the Italian cardinals are sure to be outraged that a foreign emperor has chosen a low ranking bureaucrat to be the next pope. But Otto needs someone like Leo, an uncorrupted outsider who owes his position solely to the emperor. And within a matter of hours, Otto's handpicked candidate Leo is ordained as a priest and then promoted through the ranks until he is finally consecrated as the Bishop of Rome on December 6th. With this new Pope in place, more good news arrives for Otto. The fortress at San Leo has finally surrendered and the troublesome Berengar has been taken prisoner. All Otto's goals in Italy have now been accomplished. And in early 964 CE, he leaves Rome to journey home. But this is the moment the deposed Pope John has been waiting for. As soon as the last Frankish soldier leaves Rome, Pope John crawls out of hiding and launches a rebellion against the new pope. John quickly finds support among disgruntled Italian cardinals and Pope Leo is forced to flee Rome. When he hears this, Otto prepares to return to Rome and deal with Pope John once and for all. But then he gets some good fortune. In mid May 964 CE, Pope John suddenly dies at the age of only around 30. There are rumors he was killed by a stroke. Others say he was murdered by the husband of one of his lovers. Whatever the cause, his death leaves Otto free to reinstall Leo on the papal throne and then finally to march back to East Francia. It's early 965 CE when Otto the Great returns home. There at a grand feast, he raises a glass to his son. Already a co ruler in east francia, the now 10 year old will soon be crowned joint Holy Roman Emperor too. And with his line secure and his enemies scattered, Otto the Great allows himself a smile. He not only controls much of Germany and Italy, but also the Roman Church itself. After deposing a Pope and appointing his own on November 6, 963 CE. Next on History Daily. November 7, 1944. A spy who predicted the Nazi invasion of the USSR and the attack on Pearl harbor is executed by the Japanese from Nouser and Airship. This is History Daily Hosted, edited and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham Audio editing by Mohammed Shazi Sound design by Molly Bach Music by Thrum this episode is written and researched By Angus Gavin McCarry Edited by William Simpson Managing Producer Emily Burke Executive producers are William Simpson for Airship and Pascal Hughes for Noiser.

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