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- [00:00]
Narrator
There are more ways than ever to listen to History Daily ad free. Listen with Wondry plus in the Wondery app as a member of Noiser plus at noiser.com or in Apple Podcasts. Or you can get all of History Daily plus other fantastic history podcasts@intohristory.com I've got an 11 year old daughter and if I exclaimed Math, Science History out loud and with enthusiasm, she would likely cringe. No thanks dad. And when I was 11 I probably would have cringed too. But as I grew a bit older, and I hope this is true for my daughter as well, I began to react differently to each of those boring school subjects. I warmed up to Science first, probably. It's got some cool stuff. Dinosaurs, volcanoes, space travel. I remember making rudimentary batteries in the sixth grade and really loving the challenge of getting the highest voltage in the class. And then I warmed up to history, which is a good thing given my career now as my teachers began to unpack the names and dates in a more narrative way, just about tricking me into learning math didn't really become interesting until it was coupled with physics in high school, I needed the application to start to appreciate the theory. And then these days I even follow Math teachers on TikTok like my Dallas neighbor Tim Rashuti. But why am I telling you all this? Because Math, Science History may not at first be everyone's jam, but they're certainly not my daughters. And they weren't mine until they were presented to me with the right framing and many other unfamiliar or uncomfortable topics can be revealed to us, accepted by us, and enjoyed by us too. With the right framing. You'll see where I'm going with this. On today's Saturday matinee, we're bringing you an episode from the podcast Math, Science History. What you're about to hear focuses on the lives and work of the pioneering 18th century surgeon Dr. James Barry and the renowned nuclear physicist Angela Clayton, member of the most excellent Order of the British Empire. And it's stories of individuals like these two that provide the right framing to receive, understand, accept and enjoy what may be familiar or unpalatable to us. Because in these instances, both of these trailblazers were transgender. I hope you enjoy. And while you're listening, be sure to search for and follow Math Science History. We put a link in the show notes to make it easy for you.
- [02:25]
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- [03:12]
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- [03:51]
Gabrielle Burczak
Today I'm going to be talking about two incredible individuals who are transgender. First, Dr. James Barry, a historically significant figure because of his contributions to medicine and courage in living as a gender non conforming individual during the 18th and 19th centuries. Then, Angela Clayton, a transgender woman who is a testament to the power of courage, brilliance and the unwavering pursuit of knowledge. Hi, I'm Gabrielle Burczak. I have a background in math, science and journalism and by the time you're done with today's episode, you're going to know so much more about these two incredible and inspiring individuals. Dr. James Barry is an intriguing and historically significant figure because of his contributions to medicine and courage in living as a gender non conforming individual during the 18th and 19th centuries. Historius defies conventional historical narratives, offering a unique lens to understanding the intersection of identity, gender and profession. In today's flashcard, we will explore Dr. Berry's life, focusing on his achievements as a pioneering surgeon and the ongoing mystery surrounding his gender identity. Dr. James Barry was born in 1789 in London, England and his life remains one of the most compelling and enigmatic stories in the history of medicine. Assigned female at birth, Barry lived most of his life as a man, a fact only revealed after his death. He is now regarded as one of the first openly trans individuals in recorded history. However, his gender identity was hidden from the public during his lifetime. To understand Barry's significance, we must look at the unique and brave way he navigated his career in an era when such identities were illegal and spurned. It is surmised that Barry was born between the years 1789 and 1799. Surgeon and writer Hercules Michael Duprez wrote an article about Barry for the South African Medical Journal. In it, he writes that Barry was born to Jeremiah and Mary Ann Bulkeley, who named her Margaret Ann. Barry had a sibling named Marianne Bulkeley, who was a famous Irish artist and a professor at London's Royal Academy. There is also a record of a third child, Juliana Bulkeley. It is believed that this third child was possibly Barry's daughter and the result of a childhood sexual assault, because upon Barry's death, they found that he had stretch marks from an earlier pregnancy. It is also speculated that Barry's mother had an affair with another man who was the father of Juliana. And this would make sense because in 1804, Barry and his mother moved to London. After being kicked out of the house, Mary Ann went to her brother, Professor James Barry, he was a professor at the Royal Academy, for help, who also rejected them. Two years later, her brother died and she received a comfortable inheritance. This allowed her and Barry to live securely. Regardless, Barry tried to no avail. To garner work as a tutor. Barry and his mom garnered the friendship of many of his uncle's friends, who were open minded and supported Barry's choice to live as a man. As a result, they helped Barry in his application to the University of Edinburgh, which he attended as James Barry in 1809. At the university, he was acknowledged and known as the nephew of the late James Barry, RA the determination of his uncle's friends to advocate for and support Barry's decision speaks volumes about a couple of things. First, they accepted Barry's decision. It was not dismissed or detested. It was simply a choice that someone made that a group of individuals unconditionally accepted. Unlike today, where we live in a climate where the transgender community is called out, publicly detested, and worse yet, treated with vitriol. But this also speaks volumes about the importance of advocating for transgender individuals. Because even today, when the suicide rate for trans individuals is so high, studies show that when an individual transitions and is surrounded by loved ones who support their decision and love them unconditionally, they this lowers the rate of suicide by 50%. That is significant. And what's also interesting is that this took place in the 18th and early 19th centuries. This shows that trans individuals have always been around and will always be around. Also, this shows that even in an era that was considered to be conservative, many liberal individuals supported transgender communities. When Barry first began attending the university, due to his voice and delicate features, the administration suspected that Barry was a young boy who hadn't reached puberty. The Administration tried to block Barry's application for final examinations, but a friend of the deceased uncle, the Earl of Buchan, convinced the administration to let Barry qualify as a doctor and say so. In 1812, Barry received his M.D. in 1813, Barry was appointed as an assistant surgeon in the British army after completing his medical education. This was a monumental step for any medical professional, particularly for someone in Barry's position. He would spend much of his career traveling with the army, working in places such as Malta, South Africa and the Caribbean. Barry's ability to navigate such a career in the military, a traditionally male dominated space, demonstrates his remarkable skill and resourcefulness. His reputation as a highly competent surgeon quickly spread and he became known for performing complex operations with skill and precision. One of Dr. Barry's most famous medical contributions was his work with the first successful cesarean section. In 1826, while stationed in the British colony of Cape Colony, which is now modern day South Africa, Barry performed an emergency Caesarean section on a woman who had been in labor for several days. Oh my gosh. For you moms out there who've given birth, can you imagine being in labor for several days? Both the mother and the child survived, which was a remarkable feat at a time when cesarean sections were often fatal. This surgery and other medical technique advancements cemented Barry's legacy as an extraordinary surgeon. But Barry's medical expertise went far beyond surgery. He was known for his detailed diagnoses and his innovative approach to treatment. In a time when medical knowledge was still developing and many practices were rudimentary at best, Barry made notable strides in improving hospital hygiene and and advocating for proper sanitation. He also served as a staunch critic of the treatment of women, especially when it came to their health care. He advocated for the better treatment of women in medical settings, a revolutionary stance in the early 19th century. Additionally, Barry fought to improve the sanitary conditions of the soldiers and marginalized groups. He often demanded reforms and upgrades in unconventional ways, which occasionally would lead to a demotion for Barry. Still, Barry's career thrived as he moved between military posts, earning promotions and accolades for his service. He rose to the rank of Inspector General of Hospitals In Canada in 1857, an essential position in the British Army. Through his life, he was meticulous to control and maintain the Persona of a man. Also, Barry was progressive and didn't drink or eat meat. He didn't have many relationships, but he loved his dog named get this psyche. In 1865, Dr. Barry died from dysentery in London. When his body was prepared for burial, it was revealed that he had female biological characteristics in the context of modern transgender rights and visibility. Dr. James Barry is often cited as one of the earliest females figures whose life offers a window into the lived experiences of trans individuals. Though Barry's story remained hidden for many years, his legacy inspires and resonates today, especially among transgender individuals. Despite the overwhelming challenges, his courage in living as his authentic self serves as a reminder of the power of determination and the importance of challenging stuff societal norms. Barry's life shows us that gender identity is not a new concept, but something that has always existed, even if it wasn't always recognized or understood. His courage to live authentically despite the social pressures of his time remains a testament to the resilience of the human spirit. His journey through the medical profession and his role as a trailblazer for transgender individuals in medicine make his story inspiring, particularly for those who face ongoing challenges in achieving their goals due to societal expectations. Barry's contributions to medicine, including his surgical skills, advocacy for better treatment of women, and efforts to improve hospital hygiene, are enduring parts of his legacy. Dr. James Berry's story provides a full, fascinating lens into the early history of transgender individuals in medicine and how they navigate a world that was, and still is often hostile to their identities. Barry's groundbreaking contributions to surgery and medicine make him an admirable figure whose story deserves to be remembered and considered as we strive to build equity for transgender communities.
- [14:10]
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- [14:40]
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- [15:42]
Gabrielle Burczak
Was an extraordinary nuclear physicist who broke barriers not just in her scientific field, but also in the world of transgender rights. She was born in 1959 in the United Kingdom. Her life was defined by her pioneering work in health physics, specifically in the areas of radiation protection and nuclear safety. However, what really sets her apart is the fact that she did all all of this while living openly as a transgender woman during a time when this kind of decision could have ruined her career in both science and public life. She was born at a time when gender roles in society and science were strictly defined. Women, especially in the fields of physics, were seen as exceptions rather than the norm. And for someone like Angela, who would later transition, the barriers to success were even higher. Angela's education in physics was one of the defining elements of her life. As a student, she showed a deep interest in the physical sciences and pursued a career in nuclear physics, a field dominated by men. At the time, it's still dominated by men, but she worked tirelessly, excelling in a world that was not only unfamiliar with the idea of women in these fields, but also openly hostile toward them. As she advanced in her career, Angela's personal life began to take on a whole new chapter. She decided to transition, an incredibly bold move at that time. It was not just a personal transformation, but a public one that could have cost her her career. Yet Angela's courage allowed her to live her truth. Her transition made her one of the first openly transgender professionals in the fields of physics. She did this during an era when such a decision carried grave professional consequences. But Angela remained undeterred, continuing her work and gaining recognition for her expertise. This decision would shape her career in ways both surprising and profound, and it became a core part of her journey. Angela Clayton's contributions to nuclear physics were profound and highly influential. She specialized in health physics, which is a branch of physics that focuses on the protection of people and the environment from the harmful effects of radiation. Angela worked to develop radiation shielding technologies. These innovations were critical in preventing radiation exposure in various industries, including nuclear power plants, medical research facilities, and scientific experiments involving radioactive materials. Her work centered on improving the safety protocols for handling radioactive materials. And through her research, she played a pivotal role in creating better safety standards for those working in nuclear energy, which ultimately helped minimize health risks related to radiation exposure. One of her significant contributions was to the design and the development of radiation shields. These were materials and structures that could effectively block or absorb radiation, protecting workers and the surrounding environment. Her findings were critical in helping shape the modern standards for radiation protection that we use today. But I want to go beyond the path she paved for our future generations of transgender individuals in science. I want to talk about the path that she paved. It was amazing, and she was so brilliant. She worked as the head of Criticality Safety at the Atomic Weapons Establishment. Additionally, she was a chairperson of the United Kingdom Working Party on Criticality. So she was highly involved with safety protocols as it relates to atomic weapons. But she also worked overseas in the United States as part of the Working Group for the American National Standards. She was a member. She also served in an advisory role for several international conferences on nuclear criticality. So she was passionate about the safety protocols as it relates to nuclear safety. She also wrote and co authored many papers on nuclear criticality safety. She was fully immersed in her work and also took on a multitude of roles in safety committees and the Reactor Safety panel at awe, which is the Atomic weapons establishment. Her career was, no doubt, exceptionally remarkable. She also worked as an advocate for transgender rights, campaigning for an organization called Press for Change. She went on to serve as their vice president as well. Her fight for equality for transgender individuals encouraged her to take on the role of the first trans observer to the United Kingdom's Trade Union Congress LGBT Committee. Additionally, she helped to develop and implement the Gender recognition Act of 2004. Her brilliance pursued, she immersed herself in her lifelong love of astronomy. And in 2005, she became a member of the Order of the British Empire. This was an appointment. This means that she was awarded a very, very prestigious honor by the British government that recognized her for her devotion to gender issues. And in April 2009, she obtained a law degree. I am so impressed with this amazing woman. Unfortunately, she had to take an early retirement in March of 2011. She was struggling from medical complications from an old automobile accident in 1996. She not only inspires transgender individuals to live their lives to the fullest extent as a transgender, but she also inspires humans to simply embrace their best life, despite their situations. And I always say at the end of my podcast, until next time, carpe diem. I am all about seizing the day, But I'm telling you, Angela is the epitome of carpe diem. She was amazing. If you look her up, too, you will see this in her smile. Sadly, Angela passed away on January 8, 2014. Hers was a tremendous life cut too short. And no doubt, the world is a tremendously better and safer place because of her. It's important to understand the context in which Clayton was working. The world of science in the 20th century, particularly fields like physics and nuclear energy, were dominated by men. The barriers for women were already high. But for transgender women like Angela, the barriers were even more insurmountable. Angela's decision to transition and live openly as a transgender woman was groundbreaking. It was incredibly rare for someone in her position to be openly themselves while maintaining a career in a prestigious and demanding field. Yet her work spoke for itself. She didn't allow the challenges of being a transgender woman in a male dominated field to deter her. Instead, she used her expertise to advocate for safer working conditions and for the inclusion of diverse voices in the field of science. Clayton was not just a scientist. She was also an activist. As a transgender woman, she faced the harsh realities of discrimination and exclusion, but she channeled those experiences into advocacy. In addition to her advocacy for transgender rights, Angela used her platform to challenge the stigma that often accompanied being transgender, especially in a professional and scientific environment. She didn't just want equality for transgender people. She wanted recognition, respect, and a voice for those who had been silenced by society's narrow view of gender. Clayton's legacy is one of both scientific achievement and social change. Through her groundbreaking work in physics, she helped ensure safer environments for those working with dangerous materials, directly contributing to the safety of nuclear facilities around the world. But perhaps by living authentically and pursuing her career with passion and expertise, Clayton proved that gender identity should never limit one's contributions to society. She demonstrated that the most meaningful progress often comes from individuals who break the mold. And she helped make the scientific community and society at large a more inclusive space. Clayton's life is a testament to the power of resilience, courage, and the unwavering pursuit of knowledge. Her work in physics changed the world, and her advocacy for transgender rights continues to inspire countless individuals.
- [24:25]
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Gabrielle Burczak
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Gabrielle Burczak
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- [25:11]
Gabrielle Burczak
Dr. James Barry and Angela Clayton, though separated by time and circumstance, share an enduring legacy defined by brilliance, resilience, and an unwavering commitment to authenticity in the face of overwhelming societal obstacles. Both of them demonstrated immense courage in transitioning Barry in a time when such a decision was unheard of, and Clayton in a world that was hostile to her truth. As a pioneering surgeon and groundbreaking nuclear physicist, they not only reshaped their respective fields, but also defied the expectations of a society that sought to dictate who they could be. Their transitions were acts of profound bravery, embracing who they truly were despite the risks and challenges. These stories remind us of the critical importance of allowing individuals to live as their authentic selves. When society gives people the freedom to express their true identity, they are empowered to contribute their best to the world, both in science and beyond. Barry and Clayton's lives show us that scientific progress is not only driven by intellect, but by the courage to break down barriers and live authentically. Their stories call us to build a future where no one has to choose between their identity and their passion, where diversity is not just accepted, but celebrated, and where science thrives because of our differences, not in spite of them. Thank you for tuning in to Math, Science History, and until next time, Carpe Diem. Thank you for joining me at Math Science History. Please remember to subscribe to the show. Also, if you could leave a rating or a review, I would truly appreciate that. Those ratings and reviews really help to increase my listenership, which helped me get more sponsors and advertisers, which helped me keep the podcast up and running. If you want to learn more about the history of math and science, please Visit me@mathsciencehistory.com There you can find the transcripts and additional information to each topic, as well as additional links to to other sites. Oh, and hey, if you like what you're listening to and you like what you're reading, please feel free to click on that cup of coffee and make a donation to the podcast. Because every cup of coffee that you buy helps me to pay for the expenses that go into making this podcast. Finally, if you're interested in leaving me a comment or submitting a podcast topic, you can always find me and Math Science History on your preferred platforms, including Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, or Blue Sky. Until next time, Carpe Diem.
- [28:14]
Advertiser
Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect for Patty. That friend was Desiree. Until one day I texted her, and.
- [28:24]
Gabrielle Burczak
She was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram. She has no Instagram anymore.
- [28:29]
Advertiser
And Facebook.
- [28:29]
Gabrielle Burczak
No Facebook anymore.
- [28:31]
Advertiser
Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer.
- [28:35]
Narrator
I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch.
- [28:40]
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- [28:57]
Gabrielle Burczak
I'm calling to check on the two missing Brazilian girls.
- [29:01]
Advertiser
Maybe get some undercover crew there.
- [29:03]
Gabrielle Burczak
The family are freaking out.
- [29:04]
Advertiser
They are lost. I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.