History Extra Podcast

Episode: How Ancient Pompeii Was Rediscovered

Date: January 25, 2026
Host: Kev Lotchen
Guest: Dr. Jess Venner (Historian of the Roman World, Pompeii expert)

Overview

This episode of the History Extra podcast explores the aftermath of the eruption of Vesuvius in AD 79 and traces the fascinating evolution of Pompeii from a disaster-stricken ancient city to its rediscovery and subsequent fame as an archaeological marvel. Dr. Jess Venner offers insight into the immediate Roman response, attempts at recovery and looting, the gradual forgetting of the city's ruins, and the drama, politics, and sometimes rivalry that shaped its modern rediscovery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Immediate Aftermath: Rome’s Response to the Disaster

• How quickly did news reach Rome?

  • News travelled rapidly, likely via fast horse messengers. Emperor Titus received swift reports and initiated relief efforts.

    “They realized quite quickly that there was a terrible, terrible thing that had happened.” (Jess Venner, 03:46)

• Titus's Relief Efforts:

  • Titus dispatched ex-consuls to the Bay of Naples to organize rescue and assessment operations.
  • Aid was provided for survivors, refugees were resettled, and large sums allocated for their support. (04:28)

• Suspended Taxation:

  • Titus remitted taxes and tribute payments for the devastated region, a significant relief for survivors.

    “They loved to tax the Romans. They would tax everything down to urine.” (Jess Venner, 06:26)

Survival, Refugees, and Aftermath

• Survivors & Mortality:

  • There were both survivors and refugees; many managed to escape, though numbers are uncertain.
  • Only about 1,600–1,700 bodies have been recovered from a potential population of 20,000 (08:16)

• Challenges Post-Disaster:

  • People tried to reclaim property or retrieve valuables, either during escape or via later tunneling. Many fled with jewelry and cash.

    “A lot of people did try and escape with jewellery... you find a lot of people with loads of jewelry on.” (Jess Venner, 15:12)

Memory and Myth: How Pompeii Faded from History

• Short-term and Long-term Memory:

  • Pompeii and Herculaneum lingered in memory for a few generations but faded into legend.
  • The area became known as “Civita” on later maps, with its specific identity obscured. (15:58)

• Local Legend and Resettlement:

  • Survivors and subsequent generations retained some oral traditions of the disaster, but the Roman world soon moved on.

    “It would have become legend... because a lot of them would have tried to resettle in the area.” (Jess Venner, 21:10)

Recovery, Looting, and Early Digging

• Salvaging Operations:
  • Titus’s teams and later individuals looted buildings for valuables—marble, statues, and more.
    • Large features like amphitheater roofs remained above ash, attracting “asset strippers.” (13:08)
  • Evidence reveals later skeletons in the tunnels, likely from salvagers and looters.

    “[Looters]... skeletons have been found that aren’t of AD 79.” (Kev Lotchen & Jess Venner, 13:32–13:36)

Rediscovery of Pompeii

• First Accidental Finds:
  • 1592: Architect Domenico Fontana unearthed ancient walls and frescoes—then reburied them. (22:45)
• Herculaneum and Systematic Excavations:
  • 1709: Well-digging revealed ruins at Herculaneum.
  • 1738: King Charles of Bourbon began systematic digs to bolster royal prestige with classical finds. (23:40–24:41)

    “Let’s start excavating this thing and see what is there.” (Jess Venner, 23:40)

• Pompeii Identified:
  • 1748: Excavation begins at Pompeii—originally believed to be another town.
  • 1763: Inscriptions confirm the site as Pompeii.

    “Whoa, wait, this is Pompeii!” (Jess Venner, 24:43)

Archaeological Race, Rivalry, and Treasure Hunting

• Dynastic Prestiges:
  • The Bourbon rulers and Queen Maria Carolina of Austria competed in excavation speed and “discoveries” for prestige.
  • Finds were often staged for royalty and treasure seized for personal or dynastic display. (25:56–27:20)

    “Let’s cover that up. And when [the king] comes, he can discover it with us.” (Jess Venner, 27:20)

• Problems with Early Archaeology:
  • Early teams focused narrowly on treasures, discarding less-glamorous finds (including bones and contextually crucial objects).
  • Many artifacts ended up on the black market.

    “Bones were all discarded... all this context... just totally been lost.” (Jess Venner, 18:02) "...there are, sadly, things sold on the black market... People dig into their own properties and find things." (Jess Venner, 29:05; 28:49)

Modern Excavation and Preservation

• Current Status:

  • Two-thirds of Pompeii is excavated; a third remains untouched for preservation and future technology.
  • Recent management prioritizes local communities and careful preservation. (30:35–32:35)

    “We as humanity, it’s a really important thing to not rush these things... it’s really important that we don’t rush.” (Jess Venner, 32:08)

• Shifts in Focus:

  • New work uncovers more about ordinary people—moving beyond the elites and luxury villas.

    “We’re getting a lot of lower class examples of life now as well.” (Jess Venner, 32:29)

• Future Finds:

  • Jess Venner hopes for more evidence of urban agriculture, vineyards, and private bathhouses—key for understanding daily life. (32:41–33:54)

Pop Culture: Rome on Screen

• Favorite Portrayals:
  • Jess’s picks: Gladiator, The Eagle, and especially HBO’s Rome for its spectacular set design.

    “I’ve been to that set as well in Italy... it’s amazing.” (Jess Venner, 36:06)

Memorable Graffiti of the Week (36:26–39:17)

• Gladiator Rivalries—Pompeii Style:
  • Jess shares a piece of graffiti showing gladiators’ victory and rivalry with the Nucerians.
  • The inscription captures local pride, sporting passion, and contemporary violence.

    “It was in 59 AD, and they basically ended up fighting the Nucerians ... some people were maimed and injured so badly that they had to go to Rome to be fixed ... apparently there were mortalities as well.” (Jess Venner, 38:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Relief and Survival:

  “There are survivors and there are refugees... and of course they’ve lost all their property.” (Jess Venner, 05:50)

• On Roman Taxation:

  “They would tax everything down to urine.” (Jess Venner, 06:26)

• On Rediscovery:

  “Whoa, wait, this is Pompeii. And we know of Pompeii because it’s in letters by Pliny...” (Jess Venner, 24:41)

• On Archaeological Problems:

  “Bones were all discarded... all this context from a lot of the city has just totally been lost because of this looting by so-called archaeologists.” (Jess Venner, 18:02)

• On Looting Legends:

  “There’s a legend... this local Italian man... he found this room... he sold the room. And now that funded his move to America, and now he has a really popular pizza chain.” (Jess Venner, 29:05)

• On Modern Excavations:

  “If you go to the site today, you can see them ongoing... there’s a huge amount of effort... and the people are starting to feel really proud of that.” (Jess Venner, 30:35)

• On Graffiti as Social Identity:

  “This is a good example of, like, basically the Pompeians being like, ha, we beat the Nucerians... it’s something that becomes a bit of your identity.” (Jess Venner, 39:11)

Suggested Listening Points / Timestamps

• 03:46 – Roman reaction and Emperor Titus’s response
• 05:39 – Discussion of survivors and refugees
• 08:16 – Mortality estimates and population uncertainty
• 13:08 – Looting, asset-stripping, and tunnels
• 15:58 – Pompeii’s gradual disappearance from memory
• 22:45 – The canal project of Domenico Fontana (first rediscovery)
• 24:41 – Pompeii finally identified; legend confirmed
• 27:00 – Dynastic rivalries, staged discoveries, and "flag-planting"
• 28:49 – Antiquities black market and urban legends
• 30:35 – Modern archaeological priorities
• 32:41 – Hopes for future discoveries (urban agriculture, bathhouses)
• 36:26 – Gladiator graffiti and what it reveals about ancient Pompeii

Conclusion

Through expert discussion, this episode reveals Pompeii as much more than a static site frozen by disaster—it’s a place continually shaped by ancient survivors, Roman politics, modern treasure-hunters, national ambitions, and today’s evolving archaeological priorities. From hidden remains to black market legends, graffiti rivalries to the overlooked daily life of ordinary Romans, Pompeii’s rediscovery is as dramatic and complex as its tragic entombment.