HistoryExtra Podcast – "Slavery in the Islamic World" Guest: Justin Marozzi, historian and journalist
Host: Emily Briffett
Date: February 27, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Justin Marozzi discusses his latest book, Captives and Companions, which explores the complex, vast, and sensitive history of slavery in the Islamic world. Spanning from the early seventh century to the present day, Marozzi examines networks of enslavement that stretched from sub-Saharan Africa to Central Asia, the legal and religious frameworks that governed slavery, the diverse experiences of the enslaved, and the ongoing legacy of this history. Throughout, the episode addresses why this subject remains under-explored, the sensitivities attached to it, and its nuanced differences from better-known slave trades such as the transatlantic trade.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Has Slavery in the Islamic World Been Overlooked?

• Western Focus: The Western academic and public obsession has long been with the Atlantic slave trade, leading to relative neglect of slavery in the Islamic world (01:31).

  “There has been an element of parochialism... much greater fixation and focus on the Atlantic slave trade... not so much progress on slavery in the Islamic world.” — Justin Marozzi (01:31)

• Academic Barriers & Sensitivities: Academic studies are limited and often fragmented. Marozzi notes sensitivities and hesitation in addressing the subject, with some regarding it as risky or controversial.

  “I lost count of the number of people who've told me, ‘oh, that's brave of you. Or that's a bit reckless, isn't it?’... but I think it stands up on its own as an extraordinarily long, detailed history.” — Justin Marozzi (01:51)

2. Framing: Not a "Muslim Slave Trade"

• Terminology Matters: Marozzi insists on "slavery in the Islamic world" rather than "Muslim" or "Islamic slave trade" to avoid religious reductionism.

  “There is a danger... We never talk about the Christian slave trade. We talk about the Atlantic slave trade. So I was always being careful.” — Justin Marozzi (03:16)

• Islam’s Role: While Islamic texts and law shape slavery’s character, enslavement transcended religious lines.

3. The Barbary Corsairs: A Complicated Narrative (04:15)

• Myth vs. Reality: The popular narrative of “Muslim pirates vs. Christian victims” is incomplete; the Mediterranean slave trade was a "free for all" involving Muslims, Christians, and Jews alike (04:22).

  “Nobody should cast the first stone. Nobody comes out of the story of Barbary corsairing with their reputations intact.” — Justin Marozzi quoting a Libyan historian (05:20)

• Role Switching: Many “Muslim” corsairs were European converts, often for practical rather than religious reasons.

4. Historical Scope: Time and Place (06:07)

• Geographical Focus: Core Islamic world from North Africa (Atlantic/Moroccan coast) to Kabul/northern India.
• Timeframe: From pre-Islamic times to the 21st century.
• Continuity: Traditions of slavery persisted before, during, and after the formation of Islamic societies.

5. What Makes Slavery in the Islamic World Distinct? (07:34)

• Legal and Religious Nuance: Islam, via Quran, hadith, and jurisprudence, shaped unique guidelines for the treatment and rights of slaves—at least in principle.

  “One of the things that a lot of scholars would say is different is how eager Islam is to enjoin and incentivize compassionate treatment of your slave.” — Justin Marozzi (08:19)

• Manumission: Freeing slaves was religiously encouraged; slaves sometimes had legal recourse, as illustrated by cases such as that of a 19th-century woman seeking redress for abuse (09:19).

6. Principle versus Practice (10:04)

• Ideal vs. Reality: Despite Islamic law’s principles, Muslims enslaved other Muslims, sometimes using religious justifications to circumvent prohibitions.

  “A Muslim is not allowed to enslave a fellow Muslim. But it happens.” — Justin Marozzi (10:54)

• Examples: Ottomans enslaving Iranian Shia by declaring them "not real Muslims".

7. Social Centrality & Scale of Slavery (11:53)

• Pervasiveness: Slavery was an unremarkable part of daily life, though less concentrated than in the Atlantic context.
• Numbers: Estimated 12–15 million Africans enslaved over 13 centuries, similar in scale but more diluted than the Atlantic trade (13:00).
• Forms: Enslaved people worked as retainers, concubines, soldiers, and more—rarely in vast plantations.

8. Routes into Slavery (14:14)

• Conquest: Early expansion of Islam (632–750 CE) saw mass enslavement in military campaigns.
• Birth: Many were born into slavery.

  “A very famous early Muslim called Bilal... He starts out life as a slave... rises to become one of the Prophet Muhammad's most trusted companions and... Islam’s first muaddin, the caller to prayer.” — Justin Marozzi (15:05)

• Social Mobility: Exceptional stories included slaves rising to prominence.

9. Accessing the Voices of the Enslaved (17:11)

• Source Challenges: Most sources come from outsiders—missionaries, officials, or abolitionists—raising questions about bias and elusiveness.

  “Trying to find these voices is one of the most challenging areas, but it's also one of the most important to get to the source itself.” — Justin Marozzi (17:47)

• Modern Testimonies: Marozzi conducted first-hand interviews with 21st-century former slaves in Mali and Mauritania.

10. Comparative Slave Trades (25:04)

• Beyond Transatlantic: The Saharan slave trade; the Ottoman devshirme (forced and voluntary child recruitment for Janissaries); Circassian female concubines; eunuchs from the Caucasus.

11. Categories of Enslaved and Social Mobility (26:43)

• Eunuchs: A constant from the Prophet’s time onward, often entrusted with important religious duties.

  “Eunuchs and concubines are two categories that collide together across well over a thousand years.” — Justin Marozzi (28:23)

• Slave Soldiers: Mamluks and Janissaries, who sometimes gained immense wealth and political power, even ruling dynasties.

12. Agency and Resilience (30:13)

• Extraordinary Stories: Some concubines in Abbasid Baghdad had significant agency and status, impacting poetry, arts, and court politics.
• Revolts: Instances like the Zanj revolt (late 9th century) where enslaved Africans mounted large-scale rebellions, albeit with grim consequences.

13. Racism and Hierarchies (33:32)

• Colorblind Ideals vs. Practice: Despite Islamic teachings, lighter-skinned slaves, especially Caucasians, were more prized than Africans.

  “In practice... racism at work... These are not fringe writers... mainstream, distinguished writers... writing about Africans in incredibly derogatory language.” — Justin Marozzi (34:30)

• Challenged in Sources: Some black poets voiced their struggles and defiance; pushbacks grew in modern times, esp. in Turkey (35:27).

14. Gender Dimensions (36:40)

• Women’s Roles: Concubinage was elite, but most enslaved women were domestic servants—an area poorly documented.

  “That is also a category about which we know the least. They hardly intrude on the sources.” — Justin Marozzi (37:13)

• Recent Issues: Even today, cases of African women being traded for domestic work in Gulf states.

15. Drivers of Enslavement and Abolition (38:43)

• Demand: Agriculture (cotton, dates, cloves), military service, domestic and sexual labor.

  “If you have the money, you simply buy in the muscle.” — Justin Marozzi (40:13)

• Abolition: External (mainly British/French) pressure was decisive, though internal critics existed (Young Turks, reformers).

  “Slavery was never abolished in the Ottoman Empire. By 1922, when the Ottoman Empire finally collapsed... slavery had not been abolished.” — Justin Marozzi (41:55)

• British Motives: Mixed—humanitarian, religious, and imperial expansionism.

16. Modern Legacies and Outliers (44:54)

• Persistence: Slavery persists in Mali and Mauritania (though declining).

  “He spoke to me really as though his whole life had ended... What he had achieved was freedom for his children, so they would never be enslaved.” — Justin Marozzi on his interview with a former slave in Mali (45:41)

• Cultural Attitudes: Local elites often resist abolition, considering it interference.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sensitivity:

  “It's just a really fascinating, compelling, rich, controversial history. And yes, there are sensitivities about it.” — Justin Marozzi (01:51)

• On Barbary Corsairs:

  “It was really a conversion of convenience. It's all about being a pirate or a corsair.” — Justin Marozzi (04:59)

• On the Difference from the Atlantic Slave Trade:

  “Slave soldiers who ended up founding whole dynasties... these were very different sorts of slavery.” — Justin Marozzi (23:34)

• On Present-Day Slavery:

  “Mauritania in particular does still cast a dark shadow. It is known as the last outlier or last stronghold of slavery.” — Justin Marozzi (47:32)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:31 – Why this subject is overlooked and sensitivities around it
• 03:16 – The distinction in terminology: 'slavery in the Islamic world'
• 04:15 – The Barbary Corsairs: a complex Mediterranean trade
• 06:18 – Geography and chronology of the study
• 07:52 – Unique characteristics of slavery in the Islamic world
• 10:15 – Ideals versus realities: principle versus practice
• 12:09 – The centrality and forms of slavery in society
• 14:28 – Methods of enslavement: war, birth, exceptional stories of mobility
• 17:11 – Challenges in accessing the voices of the enslaved
• 25:17 – Various types of slave trades under Islamic rule
• 26:43 – Detailed discussion of eunuchs, concubines, and slave soldiers
• 30:28 – Degrees of agency among the enslaved
• 33:45 – Racism, hierarchy, and color in attitudes toward slavery
• 36:44 – Gender: roles, documentation, and recent manifestations
• 38:56 – Economic and military drivers of enslavement
• 41:18 – The drivers and limits of abolition movements
• 44:54 – Modern slavery in Mali and Mauritania: legacies and challenges

Takeaways

• Slavery in the Islamic world was vast, diverse, and dynamic—marked by contradictions between religious law and social practice, between the ideals of equality and the realities of prejudice and exploitation.
• Unlike the Atlantic trade, Islamic slavery involved a range of roles, occasional social mobility, and enduring influences on modern societies.
• Painful legacies remain, especially in places where slavery—or the effects of it—persist to this day.

This episode is a thorough and thoughtful journey into an underexplored history, balancing scholarly nuance with empathy for the voices—however faint—of the enslaved themselves.