History Extra Podcast Summary
Episode Title: What is the Greatest Historical Movie of All Time?
Release Date: January 15, 2025
Host: Kev Lotchen
Guests:
- Alex von Tunzelman: Historian, Screenwriter, Author of Fallen Idols, 12 Statues that Made History
- Roger Luckhurst: Geoffrey Tilson Chair of 19th Century Studies at Birkbeck University of London, Specialist in Film and Culture
1. Introduction to the Poll and Its Results
The episode delves into the results of History Extra’s poll aimed at determining the greatest historical movie of all time. Initiated on the History Extra website, the poll featured 100 movies nominated by 22 historians and later ranked by the podcast’s audience.
Host Kev Lotchen [02:17]:
“We’re discussing the results of History Extra’s poll to find the greatest historical movie of all time. 22 historians nominated 100 movies, and then it was up to you, the History Extra audience, to rank them and crown a winner.”
2. Initial Reactions to the List
Roger Luckhurst [03:34]:
“...I realized I did actually have a definition of what a historical film is... Henry V is a Shakespeare play adaptation. It’s not a historical film about Henry V or Sense and Sensibility. That’s a Jane Austen novel. That’s not a historical film.”
Roger expresses surprise at some inclusions and exclusions, highlighting the subjective nature of defining a "historical film."
Alex von Tunzelman [04:27]:
“I absolutely had the same response. For something to qualify as a historical movie, it has to include either some real historical characters or a real historical setting...”
Alex echoes Roger’s sentiment, emphasizing criteria for a film to be considered historical.
3. Notable Inclusions and Debates
The conversation touches upon surprising entries like The Imitation Game and Gladiator, questioning their fit within the historical genre.
Alex von Tunzelman [06:28]:
“Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure... speaks incredibly about what we would call historical reception, about how we understand history and use history in the modern day.”
Roger Luckhurst [07:46]:
“I’m very interested in how historical narrative itself and how we construct narratives... It’s a brilliant film.”
They discuss how some films, though not traditionally historical, offer profound insights into historical reception and narrative construction.
4. The Top 10 Historical Films
The top of the list is dominated by war and heroism-themed movies, with Schindler’s List (1993) taking the number one spot.
Roger Luckhurst [08:27]:
“I think there are two films in the short term that I would really struggle to see as historical films... Gladiator... it's barely, I think, a historical film.”
Alex von Tunzelman [10:02]:
“It’s made number one... an incredibly well-made film. It’s beautifully made... it is an incredibly well-made film.”
They debate the placement of Schindler’s List, considering its fictionalization of real events and its emotional impact versus strict historical accuracy.
5. Defining a Historical Film
A significant portion of the discussion revolves around what qualifies as a historical film.
Alex von Tunzelman [25:14]:
“If I'm wanting to talk about historical film as an interesting cultural factor, then... at least one real historical character or a distinct historical setting.”
Roger Luckhurst [26:56]:
“There is an element... about falling into historical space, which is very difficult to recreate just purely through text.”
They agree that while strict definitions are challenging, the inclusion of real historical elements is crucial for categorization.
6. Representation and Diversity in Historical Films
The guests critique the gender and racial representation in historical films, noting a predominantly male-centric narrative.
Alex von Tunzelman [13:43]:
“It’s a highly gendered list... Zulu is a film with almost no women in it... historical films tell us an awful lot about how we see and use history today.”
Roger Luckhurst [15:15]:
“Hidden Figures... tells you a lot about London that has not been in the historical narratives but is increasingly being opened up to people.”
They stress the importance of diversifying perspectives in historical storytelling to reflect the true breadth of history.
7. Accuracy vs. Creative License
The tension between historical accuracy and creative storytelling in films is explored.
Alex von Tunzelman [18:59]:
“I’m not sure who filmmakers would be accountable to apart from their audiences... If we care about that as audiences, then we should vote with our money.”
Roger Luckhurst [19:46]:
“...the director Robert Eggers... Nelson: He’s obsessed with getting certain historical details right... filmmakers have to find a balance.”
Both guests acknowledge that while accuracy is important, filmmakers often face practical constraints that necessitate creative liberties.
8. Historical Films as Gateways to History
The episode concludes on a positive note, recognizing the role of historical films in sparking interest in history.
Alex von Tunzelman [31:13]:
“People who watch historical drama or comedy tend to continue their interest in history... sales of Tudor books went up.”
Roger Luckhurst [32:41]:
“…film can give you a really fantastically good, compelling, melodramatic narrative, but also tell you that history itself is changing the more we look into it.”
They advocate for leveraging the popularity of historical films to engage wider audiences with historical scholarship and exploration.
Conclusion
The episode offers a nuanced exploration of what constitutes a historical film, the balance between accuracy and storytelling, and the evolving representation within the genre. Guests Alex von Tunzelman and Roger Luckhurst provide insightful perspectives on how historical films not only reflect but also shape our understanding of history, emphasizing their potential as educational gateways despite inherent limitations.
For a comprehensive list of the 100 movies discussed and detailed rankings, visit historyextra.com/100movies.
Produced by: Jack Bate
Visit History Extra: historyextra.com