Young Cleopatra: the making of a queen

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Young Cleopatra: The Making of a Queen

HistoryExtra Podcast
Host: Immediate
Guest: Islam Issa (Professor of Public Humanities, Birmingham City University)
Release Date: May 23, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this opening episode of HistoryExtra’s four-part Cleopatra series, host Immediate and historian Islam Issa explore Cleopatra’s origins, family dynamics, the Ptolemaic dynasty’s context, and the world of ancient Alexandria. The discussion delves into the political and cultural environment that shaped young Cleopatra, highlighting both the stormy drama of her dynasty and her formative experiences as an Alexandrian princess—and soon-to-be queen.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Connections to Cleopatra

• Islam Issa discusses his early awareness of Cleopatra due to his Alexandrian heritage and childhood memories, noting the cultural reverence for her in Egypt (03:11).
  • “I do remember my parents talking to me about Cleopatra as a child and having a kind of fondness for her, that she was a hero of sorts.” — Islam Issa [03:13]
  • Notably, Cleopatra is the only woman on an Egyptian coin at the time (the 50 piasta), a symbol encountered in daily life.

2. The Ptolemaic Dynasty: History, Tensions, and Reputation

• Overview of the Ptolemaic dynasty and its dramatic, often dysfunctional reputation (04:09).
  • “On the whole, this is going to be a story about a dynasty that has enigmatic ancestry, sibling rivalry, completely dysfunctional, incest at certain stages, and lots of power grabbing.” — Islam Issa [05:30]
• Origins: Connected to Alexander the Great through Ptolemy I, the dynasty ruled Egypt after Alexander's death, with ties to Macedonia and Hellenistic culture.
• Economic & cultural policies: First consciously mercantile economy; integration attempts between Greeks and Egyptians (Serapis cult); focus on economic unity and currency (06:15).

3. Family Marriages and Dynastic Power

• Sibling marriage as power consolidation and divine symbol: The Ptolemies emulated gods (Greek Zeus and Hera, Egyptian Osiris and Isis) through incestuous marriages, reflecting divinity and reinforcing hierarchy (08:09).
  • “It's actually normal for gods, both Greek and Egyptian, because we have Zeus and Hero, we have Osiris and Isis. So in a way, they're showing their power and they're also showing that they have divine qualities by doing it.” — Islam Issa [09:48]

4. Cleopatra’s Parents and Sibling Dynamics

• Her father: Ptolemy XII (Auletes, "the flute player"), of dubious legitimacy, married (possibly) to Cleopatra V Tryphaena, about whom little is known (10:27).
• Ambiguity around her mother: Mother's identity uncertain, possibly not royal—raising questions about Cleopatra's status and upbringing (11:22).
• Siblings: Notably Berenice IV (her sister), and the younger Ptolemy XIII and XIV; all will be key players in the unfolding drama (12:15).

5. The City of Alexandria: Setting the Stage

• Alexandria’s global significance: Intersection of Africa, Asia, Europe; a city founded by Alexander, with a cosmopolitan aura, diverse populations, and forward-thinking policies (13:09).
• Historical context: Cleopatra is closer to the invention of the iPhone than to the building of the pyramids, underscoring Egypt’s ancient legacy (13:37).
  • “Cleopatra is closer in time to the invention of the iPhone than she is to the building of the pyramids.” — Islam Issa [13:37]
• The Library of Alexandria: Soft power through scholarship, inventions, and knowledge attraction; “ahead of its time”, host of multicultural innovations (14:00+).

6. Life and Education of Young Cleopatra

• Royal upbringing: Raised in the Royal Quarter with access to private zoos, fine toys, and elite tutors—likely exposed to a mix of Greek and Egyptian customs (20:33).
• Travel to Rome: As an adolescent (~11-14 years old), Cleopatra accompanies her father to Rome, introducing her early to international politics (21:30).

7. Gender Dynamics and Power

• Complex gender roles: More historical records of her father, but Ptolemaic women (including her sister Berenice IV) could and did hold power (25:55).
• Education and language: Cleopatra uniquely learns Egyptian (unlike her Greek-speaking forebears), as well as Macedonian and numerous other languages, reflecting her ambition to rule as both an Egyptian and a Greek monarch (23:10).
  • “Plutarch writes that she speaks about a dozen languages… she doesn’t need an interpreter for those languages.” — Islam Issa [23:40]
  • Her dual dress and multilingualism reveal her conscious bridging of two cultures (25:20).

8. Early Traumas and the Seeds of Power

• Family intrigue and loss: Cleopatra’s mother disappears (possibly died at her birth, exiled, or assassinated), and her father is usurped by her sister when Cleopatra is a young teenager. This exposes her to the realities of dynastic risk early on (26:25).
  • “She witnesses that when she goes away, her sister usurps the throne from her father. And I think that's… an alarm bell for me about what she's witnessing when she's just turned teenager.” — Islam Issa [27:07]
• Financial crisis and dependence on Rome: Her father’s poor fiscal management and growing Roman influence foreshadow Rome’s looming role in Cleopatra’s fate (27:44).

9. Early Encounters with Rome and Key Figures

• Mark Antony’s first appearance: As part of the Roman cavalry that helps restore Cleopatra’s father to the throne, Mark Antony becomes involved in Egyptian affairs—a connection that will shape Cleopatra’s adult life (28:44).

10. Cleopatra Named as Co-Regent

• Pivotal moment: In 52 BC, Ptolemy XII formally makes Cleopatra his co-regent at age 17, signaling faith in her ability and setting the stage for her sole rule a year later (29:47).
  • “He announces that Cleopatra is co-reagent… So she becomes co-ruler, so to speak with her father. At that stage, she's only 17 and about a year later, Ptolemy XII dies and Cleopatra is at the helm." — Islam Issa [30:09]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “That's like asking somebody what their first memory is… She was a hero of sorts.” — Islam Issa on first memories of Cleopatra [03:11]
• “On the whole, this is going to be a story about… sibling rivalry, completely dysfunctional, incest at certain stages, and lots of power grabbing.” — Islam Issa [05:30]
• “It’s actually normal for gods… so in a way, they’re showing their power and they’re also showing that they have divine qualities by doing it.” — Islam Issa, on sibling marriage [09:48]
• “Cleopatra is closer in time to the iPhone than to the pyramids.” — Islam Issa [13:37]
• “Plutarch writes that she speaks about a dozen languages… she does not need an interpreter…” — Islam Issa [23:40]
• “I think that's an immediate kind of red flag, isn't it? It's an alarm bell for me about what she's witnessing when she's just turned teenager.” — Islam Issa, on the familial usurpation [27:07]
• “She becomes co-ruler, so to speak, with her father… she's only 17 and about a year later, Ptolemy XII dies and Cleopatra is at the helm.” — Islam Issa [30:09]

---

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:11 | Islam Issa’s Alexandrian heritage and early memories of Cleopatra | | 04:42 | Ptolemaic dynasty origins and dysfunction | | 06:15 | Ptolemaic economic/cultural policies and integration efforts | | 08:09 | Sibling marriage: power, symbolism, and divine association | | 10:27 | Cleopatra’s father, mother, and familial ambiguity | | 12:15 | Siblings and their significance | | 13:09 | Alexandria’s founding, placement, and multicultural context | | 13:37 | Time perspective: Cleopatra vs. pyramids vs. iPhone | | 14:00 | Alexandria’s intellectual hub: Library, diversity, and innovation | | 20:33 | Cleopatra’s childhood: education, zoo, privileged upbringing | | 21:30 | Cleopatra in Rome as child, Pompey connection | | 23:22 | Education and learning languages | | 25:55 | Gender roles in Ptolemaic Egypt | | 26:25 | Loss of her mother and her father’s usurpation | | 28:44 | Introduction of Mark Antony | | 29:47 | Cleopatra named co-regent at 17 |

---

Conclusion

This episode lays the groundwork for understanding Cleopatra’s royal adolescence against a backdrop of dynastic intrigue, cosmopolitan innovation, and looming Roman interference. Islam Issa paints a portrait of a young woman uniquely prepared—by education, language, and lived experience—to take the helm of an empire in flux, setting up the intrigue and drama to follow in her rise to sole queen.

Stay tuned for Episode 2, which explores how Cleopatra seized and maintained power amid familial strife and external threats.

---

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance / Expedia / Quince / Shopify Advertiser]

Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's Name your price tool for years. With the Name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they show you options that fit your budget enough. Hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy, or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit progressive.com and give the name your price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law

[Home Depot / Nordstrom Rack / Athletic Brewing / Blinds.com Advertiser]

make every get together chill this Memorial Day. Get up to an extra thousand dollars off select top brand appliances like L plus. Get free delivery at the Home Depot, Tackle pool towels and camp laundry with a large capacity washer and host in style with the fridge serving craft ice, mini craft ice, cubed ice and crushed ice. Shop Appliance Savings now through June 3rd at the Home Depot offer valid May 14th through June 3rd US only. Free delivery on appliance purchases of $998 or more. See store online for details.

[Progressive Insurance / Expedia / Quince / Shopify Advertiser]

Expedia and Visit Scotland Invite you to come Step into centuries of history that await in Scotland. Castles steeped in legend walk along cobblestone streets. Come share the warmth of stories passed down through generations. This is a place with a past that is fully present today and all yours to explore. Plan your Scottish escape [e-mail] VisitScotland so

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

good, so good, so good.

[Progressive Insurance / Expedia / Quince / Shopify Advertiser]

Everything you want for summer is at

[Home Depot / Nordstrom Rack / Athletic Brewing / Blinds.com Advertiser]

Nordstrom Rack stores now and up to 60% off.

[Progressive Insurance / Expedia / Quince / Shopify Advertiser]

Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince Sam, edelman frame and free people. Join the NordicLub to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Welcome to the History Extra Podcast. Today we're launching the latest of our Sunday series, and over the next four weeks we'll be exploring one of the ancient world's most famous figures, Cleopatra. My guest to guide us through the life and times of this remarkable ruler is Islam Issa, who's professor of public humanities at Birmingham City University and the author of books including the City that Changed the world. In today's first episode, we chart the world into which Cleopatra was born. Its sprawling geography, its family tensions, and the figures and forces that would have enormous impact on her life to come. I'd like to start on a personal note, if I can. When did you first encounter her as a cultural figure? Do you remember?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

That's like asking somebody what their first memory is. I think certainly as a child, being raised by Alexandrian parents and coming from a long line of Alexandrians, which is the city where Cleopatra was born and raised and from which her family ruled for several centuries. So I do remember my parents talking to me about Cleopatra as a child and having a kind of fondness for her, that she was a hero of sorts. And I'd say another memory early on would be on the half a pound 50 piasta coin in Egypt. So that's the kind of pocket money that you can buy sweets with and stuff. So she's on that coin, the only woman who is on a coin at the time. So those would probably be my earliest memories. Nothing much to do with the Romans

[History Extra Podcast Host]

or Shakespeare, but, I mean, those are quite formative memories. So you do have a long standing relationship with her as a figure.

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Yeah, I would absolutely love to meet her somehow.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Well, perhaps we can get back to that idea later on in the podcast to kick us off then we should rewind back to the time in which she was alive and the place. Can we do some scene setting? I'd like to do this in two major ways, I suppose, dynastic and geographical. Can we start with the first of those? We're going to talk a lot over the next four episodes about the Ptolemaic kingdom. And historian Joyce Tyldsley has described this dynasty as being like the worst sort of soap opera on television. What do we need to know about the wider lineage into which Cleopatra was born?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

First of all, I don't think it's the worst soap opera. I think it's the best soap opera. I guess the link to Alexander the Great is important, that Ptolemy I, who's great great grandfather of Cleopatra, was one of the boyhood friends and later generals of Alexander, who went on every foreign expedition with Alexander the great. In the 4th century BC, Alexander founds Alexandria, which will become the Ptolemaic capital. And once Alexander dies, Ptolemy takes that nice slice of the cake, which is which is Egypt. So there's that link from Macedonia, where Alexander's from, and the Hellenistic link and the fact that they then go to Egypt. We might also say that they have lots of Ptolemies. So we start with Ptolemy I, Ptolemy second, Ptolemy iii. Ptolemy means of warlike. There's lots of Cleopatras. The Cleopatra we're going to talk about is Cleopatra vii. Cleopatra means beloved of her father. And then we have lots of Berenices as well. That's the third name that we get a lot of which is a name related to victory. On the whole, this is going to be a story about a dynasty that has enigmatic ancestry, sibling rivalry, completely dysfunctional, incest at certain stages, and lots of power grabbing. So that's the kind of background that we're talking about.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

It's certainly a lively story and we'll cover some of these episodes as we go. Is there anything else we need to understand before we start about the relationship between this dynasty and the world around it?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Well, as I said, Ptolemy I, when Alexander dies, takes Egypt. He hijacks the body of Alexander the Great, takes it to Alexandria, creates the mausoleum for him there. So they're prioritizing Egypt. I think that's one thing we can say. Yes, they expand. They have a little bit of the Levant, Cyprus, but Egypt is very much their priority. They're also relatively neutral in terms of foreign affairs. So that's one way in which they can sort of prioritize Egypt as well. They have several interesting policies, let's say that they do. And obviously we'll come on to some ideas like the library and that kind of thing shortly. But I think one of the important things for me is the kind of unification process they go through. So essentially they ensure that there's a single currency throughout their dynasty. They also have lots of emphasis on amalgamating the Greeks and Egyptians, getting them to live together. So they create a God called Serapis, who's a Greco Egyptian God who's very successful. And also the fact that they have a very conscious mercantile economy. It's probably the first one in history that's that conscious. So they do things like maximizing exports, minimizing imports, increasing tariffs. That's the kind of relationship that they have with the world. It's quite trade orientated.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

One of the things I'm always struck by when we're talking about this period and this place is the fact. In many ways, these are people with whom we can identify. They've got relatable emotions and reactions and behaviors. And then in other cases, the way in which they lived is so different from how we live today that it can sometimes be difficult to get our head around. I suppose one of the things that we will get into, as we talk, is the idea of brother sister marriage. Can you talk us through this and why it was seen as an important thing in that society?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Yeah, it's a complicated relationship, let's say the brother sister relationship. But it does become one of the defining aspects of the Ptolemaic dynasty. Now, it starts quite early on. Ptolemy I is the founder of the dynasty. Now Ptolemy II then takes rule. His sister Arsinoe is married to one of Alexander's generals at 15, Lysimachus. Now, Lysimachus dies in battle about 20 years later. And then her half brother kills her sons. So she decides to. She was in Macedon and decides to seek refuge with her full brother, Ptolemy II. So she goes back to Alexandria 20 years later at 35, and it's at that stage that she seems to tell Ptolemy II that his wife is plotting against him and seems to convince him that they should be married. So that's to kind of cement their power during a time of upheaval regionally. I've got a few sort of thoughts on that. Number one is, if they wanted to sleep with each other, I don't think they would have announced that. So obviously there's a reason to announce it. Number two, if he wanted to make her queen, he didn't need to get married to her. So obviously there's a reason for that. And my sense is that it's to ensure that she's higher in the hierarchy than his first wife, because it's also a polygamous relationship. So those are a couple of the things we should probably bear in mind. Also, they don't procreate. It's not until Ptolemy IV that that happens and we get Ptolemy V. And something that's really important to remember is it's not normal, even for the people of the time, but that it's not normal for humans. It's actually normal for gods, both Greek and Egyptian, because we have Zeus and Hero, we have Osiris and Isis. So in a way, they're showing their power and they're also showing that they have divine qualities by doing it.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

So it was a tool to represent their powerfulness by relating themselves to.

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Cementing their power and both literally because they're in charge and symbolically, through the link with the divine.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Having established this wider context, can you tell us about Cleopatra's parents? Who were they? Can you introduce us to them?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Yes. So her father is another Ptolemy. Surprise, surprise. And it's Ptolemy xii. He was known as Ptolemy Auletes, which means the flute player. Sabina, who played the flute. He was also known as Ptolemy the illegitimate, let's say, for reasons that we'll probably come on to. So he marries Trophania, who becomes Cleopatra V. We don't know much about Cleopatra V. So she could be his sister, she could be his half sister, she could be his cousin. She's only mentioned on a few papyri. And actually, that scarcity of references suggests that she might not have had royal lineage necessarily. I mean, there's a possibility that Cleopatra's mother is actually one of his mistresses. The general opinion is that her mother is Cleopatra V. But it's much easier to know who her father is than to be certain about who her mother is.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Something that I wanted to ask you, and we can come back to this as well, is this question of how we know about these people and what they did. What are the main sources that we can draw on with any degree of confidence to understand these sort of facts?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

And these people with the Ptolemies, it's a lot of the stelae, you know, stela inscriptions, whether in temples, slabs that have been found, the most famous of which is the Rosetta Stone. We mentioned the first Ptolemy, born of a sibling marriage, Ptolemy V. Well, the Rosetta Stone is about Ptolemy V being the king. So those will be the main sources. And unfortunately, a lot of sources have been lost because the library of Alexandria would have also had histories that have been destro.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Having met her parents, let's meet her siblings. Who among these brothers and sisters do we need to know about?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Well, we know that Ptolemy XII and Cleopatra V had Berenice iv. So we certainly know that Berenice was her sister, maybe her half sister. And then we also have Ptolemy II also has four children whose mothers are unconfirmed, let's say. So very original names here, Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy xiv. So two boys and two girls, Arsinoe and Cleopatra, the one we're talking about, they all come up in the story in one way or another.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

So we will keep their names in our minds and we'll come back to those as the story unfolds. Having talked about the sort of the family context of this story, we should talk about the physical location. Your fantastic book on Alexandria has the subtitle the City that Changed the World. Can you tell us about this place and give us a sense of it as a city and its importance?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

So, founded in the 4th century BC, it's on the Mediterranean, so it's an intersection between three Africa, Asia and Europe. It's got the link with the Hellenistic world through Alexander and Ptolemy, and it's got a link with Egypt. Egypt is an old civilization. When Alexandria is founded, so the time of Alexander the Great and Ptolemy the first, it's actually, let's say, halfway between the building of the pyramids and our present day.

[Quince Advertiser]

Wow.

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

And just to put that into context, because we're talking about Cleopatra, Cleopatra is closer in time to the invention of the iPhone than she is to the building of the pyramids.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

This kind of thing's incredible.

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

So that's how old and established Egypt is. So Alexandria, by the time of Cleopatra has gone through some really fantastic phases as a city. It's become a trade hub for the region, one of the busiest ports in the region. It's that link between different cultures because a lot of people arrive by sea to Alexandria. And one of the founding principles of it was the different people could come together to live in relative tolerance in order to make it an economic hub. And so we see people coming from the Levant, lots of Jews coming from the Holy Land, people coming from the south, from Nubia, Greeks, Romans and so on. Even evidence of Indians coming into Alexandria in its first year. And then the other aspect of Alexandria that's important is the library and research center. So Ptolemy I and Ptolemy ii, Cleopatra's ancestors bet on this idea that knowledge equals power. That if they could gather all of the world's knowledge and look after it, and then in the research center next door, create knowledge and disseminate knowledge, then they could wield soft power. And to a large extent, that worked because Alexandria was a place where great inventions were made. Huge advances in scholarship. Scholars from all around the region would come and reside there and study there. So in many ways, it was ahead of its time. And I imagine it was like stepping into the future for many people as they arrived and were welcomed by the Ferros lighthouse, which was one of the ancient wonders of the world.

[Quince Advertiser]

Springtime is my catalyst to switch out the major players in my closet and take stock of what I have and haven't been wearing over the last year. It's a great time to get a bit more intentional about what you're wearing day to day. And if I'm getting rid of anything, I want to make sure that I'm replacing it with quality pieces. And I've been turning to quince for that so often recently. Their clothes are made really well and price even better. So it makes shopping for and wearing their pieces simple. Quince uses premium materials like organic cotton and ultra soft denim. And their lightweight linen pants, dresses and

[Progressive Insurance / Expedia / Quince / Shopify Advertiser]

tops start at just $30. I have a few pairs of their

[Quince Advertiser]

100% European linen pants. They come in a variety of colors and patterns. It has an elastic waist and a pretty wide leg so they're really, really comfortable. But they also look super nice, so I think they're the perfect versatile pair of pants for spring and summer. Everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut middlemen. So you're paying for the quality and craftsmanship of the products, but not a brand markup.

[Progressive Insurance / Expedia / Quince / Shopify Advertiser]

Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use.

[Quince Advertiser]

Head to Quince.comHistoryExtra for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.comHistoryExtra for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comHistoryExtra

[Progressive Insurance / Expedia / Quince / Shopify Advertiser]

Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to do list may feel endless with new tasks and lists can easily begin to overrun your life. So finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything as a built in business partner can be a game changer for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Gymshark, Rare Beauty and Heinz to brands just getting started. Shopify has hundreds of ready to use templates that can help you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style and you can tackle all the important tasks in one place from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. And if people haven't heard about your brand, you can get the word out. Like you have a marketing team behind you with easy to run email and social media campaigns to reach customers wherever they're scrolling or strolling. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify and Start. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com realm. Go to shopify.com realm that's Shopify.

[Home Depot / Nordstrom Rack / Athletic Brewing / Blinds.com Advertiser]

When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing, you can do Anything so people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing, Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Did the existence of this centre of learning contribute to the atmosphere of the city? Do we get a sense of what that would have been like?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

I think it was something like a university town. What we might think of these days like an Oxford or a Bologna, because there's evidence that the library was overstocked, had hundreds of thousands of scrolls. Estimates go 700,000, maybe more. And so they had lots of little daughter libraries sort of pop around the city. There was also an obsession with scrolls, with books at the time. So the Ptolemies would search ships, for example, docked into the port, not for contraband, but for books. And if a book was found, it would be taken to the library and copied, and in all likelihood the copy would be going back to the owner. They wrote to foreign rulers to try to get books as well. They even, at a certain stage, embargoed the export of papyrus so that rival libraries can't keep up.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

So there is a sense that that kind of knowledge was very important in the city. I'd say as time went on, some people might have liked it less from the general population because these scholars lived rent free, tax free, with rising prices and rising taxes. That's not necessarily a good thing for the public. So there must have been some periods where the general public was wary of quite the amount of investment that was going into this state endeavour, which is the library and research centre.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

This is really interesting and it's really good to get such a detailed context to the world in which Cleopatra would emerge. What do we know about her very early life?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

So she would have been raised in the Royal Quarter. The Royal Quarter, we know, included the library and research centre. Interestingly, one of the earlier Ptolemies, for example, had built a private zoo there, so we assumed she had pets. They had their own royal port as well, and they had these what we now call barges. But that image of a barge is probably quite romanticized. I think these were like the super yachts of the time. So she would have grown up around that. Alexandria had some really amazing inventors, like Charon of Alexandria and others, who invented dancing puppets, that kind of thing. So she would have had really nice toys, I assume, pastimes. I'm guessing she would have liked dancing as a princess. She would have had a private tutor and there was, for a long period, the head librarian. It's a kind of an exterior role. He Kind of doubled as the tutor for the prince and princess as well. And one important thing about her early life is that Cleopatra, beloved of her father. That's the name. I think her father took her under his wing, and we get a sense of that because her father actually goes to Rome to seek some support from there, financial support, military support, that kind of thing. And when he goes, he takes Cleopatra with him. And Cleopatra's about 11 at that time, and she stays in Rome till she's about 14. So she has that experience as well.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

And it's really interesting to think about the interconnectedness of the world at that time, that she was able to go and spend several years living somewhere else. It's also really striking that we can sort of work out quite a lot about her life from quite an early age.

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Yeah, I think some of it is patching together aspects of the city of Alexandria. I think one of the important ways of understanding Cleopatra's early life is understanding the culture of the Ptolemies and the culture of the city. And that's probably how we can patch things together. But we do know, for example, that her father was hosted by Pompey in Rome. So that's one detail that we can be confident about.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Can you tell us a bit about Pompey? Who is he?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

So he was one of Caesar's men. There's a certain stage where he and Caesar have a slightly more difficult relationship. He's obviously a person who has huge ambitions in Rome, and he's integral to the rise of Rome as well. I mean, Cleopatra, we know that she's around those kinds of powerful people at the beginning of her life as well. And she's sort of in those corridors, so to speak.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

We've talked a bit there about the great Library. Is it true that Cleopatra was the only member of the Ptolemies to learn to communicate in the language that the Egyptian people used? And can you tell us a bit more about her education?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

So, as we said, with the exception of those three years, she's in Alexandria. So the tutor she would have had is Philostratos. He would have taught her things like literature, oratory skills, classics. There's one particular stone slab that suggests she may have dressed as a male at certain times of her childhood so that she can learn specific subjects which probably like philosophy, rhetoric, maybe, that kind of thing. Her language learning is a fascinating aspect of her. Plutarch writes that she speaks about a dozen languages, which is amazing. He says she doesn't need an interpreter for those languages. In terms of those Languages. I think it's important to think about Alexandrian Greek, Koine Greek. So Alexandria develops its own kind of dialect of Greek, which actually it's thought that someone like Jesus would have spoke, and so that would be the main language. So Cleopatra doesn't only speak Egyptian, which I'll come on to, she also speaks the original sort of Macedonian language of her forefathers, which I think is fascinating. So that was a Hellenistic language that was abandoned, so to speak, by some of her parents and grandparents because they preferred Alexandrian Greek. So I think she has this kind of nostalgia and knowledge of the greatness of the Ptolemaic dynasty in its early days by learning to speak that Hellenistic language. As for Egyptian, absolutely. It says so much about her that she learned Egyptian because that was seen as a more commoner style language. From what we know, she probably is the first Ptolemy to learn Egyptian. So it says that she wanted to rule as an Egyptian queen, not just as a Hellenistic queen. I think she wanted to win the respect of the population and of the Egyptian priesthood, which was very influential as well.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

So that choice does tell us a great deal about her personality, you think?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

I think so. Both learning the Macedonian and the Egyptian tells us about her that she understands the greatness of the Ptolemaic dynasty, that she wants to be an Egyptian queen. And we get that sense with other stuff as well. We think she wore both Greek and Egyptian attire, for example, so she's going for that universe kind of queen figure.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

Do you think there's anything else we need to understand about the way gender was constructed at this point in time to help us make sense of her power, either at this point in the story or in subsequent parts of her life.

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Yeah, and it's kind of related to her family. I think the fact we know more about her father than her mother is telling, that immediately suggests a sort of patriarchal setup. The fact that her sister usurps her father suggests that actually women can rule. And women held a lot of power within the Ptolemaic dynasty. So a bit on both sides there.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

And is there anything else that you think we need to understand about young Cleopatra to make sense of what's going to happen next?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

I think it's related to her family. It's those similar two points. The first is about her mother, that on a human level, we're unsure who her mother is, whether she even was raised by her mother or with her mother. So Cleopatra V disappears from records suddenly, and she disappears in 69 BC, which is the same year that Cleopatra was born. So did she die in childbirth? Did she get exiled or assassinated? Is it not her mother? So there's a human element there. The other important context would be about her father. We said he takes her to Rome, he takes her under his wing and so on. But what we have to remember is when he takes her to Rome with him in 57 BC, her sister usurps him. And that's an important development. So her father is usurped by Berenice. So she witnesses that. She witnesses that when she goes away, her sister usurps the throne from her father. And I think that's an immediate kind of red flag, isn't it? It's an alarm bell for me about what she's witnessing when she's just turned teenager.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

And we get a sense even from this point that this is a family built on really shifting sands, that at any point things could change course or things could happen that you're not completely control of.

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

Absolutely. With the added complexity of the Romans as well. Her father's not the best financial planner, let's say. The treasury's struggling and there's all sorts of power grabbing happening in the family. And he ends up seeking the support of Rome through loans. And it's interesting because he also bribes the Romans to help him. So he's loaning money from the Romans and then using it to bribe Romans, which is not a good tactic. And so when he goes to Rome, they obviously already have some grip over Egypt through that. So I think that's probably one of the key developments. And the fact that in order to go back to Egypt, he uses a Roman army to help him go back to Egypt.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

So we're already starting to establish some of the currents and some of the characters who are gonna go on to be important. There's one figure who makes his first appearance at this point in the story, and that's Mark Antony. Can you introduce us to him and tell us when him and Cleopatra first met?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

So when her father is in Rome, he tries to get the Romans to invade Alexandria for him so that he can go back, take Egypt back from his daughter. And they do so in 55 BC. And the Roman cavalry that enters Alexandria is led by a commoner called Mark Anthony. And as the leader of that cavalry, I think Cleopatra may have met him at that time. He was still in his late 20s at the time. She would have been a teenager. He's in his late 20s, but essentially he's a person who's gone up the ranks. He's a self made military man.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

So we're drawing to a close with this first episode. There's players on the board, things are starting to take shape. There's one more key moment we should talk about, which was in 52 BC when Cleopatra was still in her teens. Her father made a decision, made an announcement that was to shape what was gonna come next. Can you just talk us through what happened?

[Islam Issa (Historian and Author)]

So they go back to Alexandria in 55 B.C. her father takes control again thanks to the help of the Romans, and he executes his daughter, her sister, about three years later. Then his health is deteriorating and he announces that Cleopatra is co regent. Co Regent means she's ruling with him and it's a bold move because the co regent was often a spouse. On this occasion he obviously trusts her and so she becomes co ruler, so to speak with her father. At that stage, she's only 17 and about a year later, Ptolemy XII dies and Cleopatra is at the helm.

[History Extra Podcast Host]

And in the next episode we're gonna be talking about her rise to power and some of the challenges she faced and what happened next. But for now, Islam, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for listening to the first episode in our four part series on Cleopatra's life and world. In the next episode we'll be charting how Cleopatra rose to power. So do join me for that. And if you've enjoyed this episode and want to go beyond the podcast, you can visit the History Extra app where I've curated a list of wider content that explores the life and afterlife of this fascinating figure. You can find a link to that in the episode. Description.

[Home Depot / Nordstrom Rack / Athletic Brewing / Blinds.com Advertiser]

Athletic Brewing Company crafts award winning non alcoholic beers for those who want to be part of every round. With over 185 flavor awards, there are exceptional NA beers that fit your lifestyle and any social occasion. Summer's full of good times and Athletic fits right in. Go to athleticbrewing.com to have brews delivered to your door or find them at a bar, restaurant or store near you. Near Beer Athletic Brewing Co. Fit for all Times did you know? If your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees. Turn the temperature down with blinds.com and get up to 50% off custom window treatments like solar roller shades and more. During the Memorial Day Mega Sale. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro handle everything, we've got you free samples, real design experts and zero pressure. Just help when you need it. Shop up to 50% off site wide and huge savings on door busters Right now during the Memorial Day mega [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line, whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swing. There's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe [e-mail].