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- [00:00]
Sally Helm
Hello History this week, listeners. It is Sally here. We cover stories from all around the world on this show and today's episode is sponsored by the Language Learning program Rosetta Stone. Our producer Ben is here to tell you all about them.
- [00:13]
Ben
Thank you, Sally. Yes, we cover the entire world here on History this week and maybe that's inspired you to travel. You heard our Pompeii episode and want to go see the ruins for yourself. Or maybe after hearing our episode about Masanori Murakami, you want to go check out a baseball game in Japan? Well, whether it's Japanese, Italian, or any of the 25 languages offered, Rosetta Stone has you covered. Rosetta Stone immerses you so that speaking, listening and thinking in that new language all becomes natural. Their True Accent feature gives you real time feedback on your pronunciation so you'll blend right in. And you can bring Rosetta Stone wherever you go on your computer or by using their mobile app. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. For a short time. History this week listeners can get Rosetta Stone's Lifetime Membership Holiday Special. This offer will not last long. Visit rosettastone.comhistory that's unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your holiday offer@RosettaStone.com history for yourself or as a gift that keeps on giving.
- [01:27]
Sharon McMahon
Why get all your holiday decorations delivered through Instacart? Because maybe you only bought two wreaths, but you have 12 windows. Or maybe your toddler got very eager with the Advent calendar. Or maybe the inflatable snowman didn't make it through the snowstorm. Or maybe the twinkle lights aren't twinkling. Whatever the reason, this season, Instacart's here for hosts and their whole holiday haul. Get decorations from the Home Depot, CVS and more through Instacart and enjoy free delivery on your first three orders, service fees and term supply.
- [01:57]
Sally Helm
Hey everyone, it's Sally here. As we head into the holidays, we just wanted to let you know that History this Week is not going anywhere. Episodes will keep coming every Monday, so when you meet up with friends and family, you will be stocked with plenty of fun stories to share from the past. If you don't already follow History this week. Wherever you listen to your podcasts and when you are showing off everything you learned from the show, make sure to tell them you heard it from us. The History Channel Original Podcast history this week December 1st, 1969 I'm Sally Helm. The scene could be mistaken for the set of a school play. A small stage decorated with beige curtains. Off to the side, an American flag. But this is the Selective Service headquarters in Washington D.C. tonight will be the first televised draft of the Vietnam War. There is a kind of dark theater to it. Americans at home are watching to see whether they'll be the ones sent off to war. The numbers that will determine their fate sit on that little stage. Off to the left, there's a clear plastic container filled with blue pill shaped capsules. In each of these capsules is a slip of paper, one for each calendar date of 1970. There are 366 of them. 1970 is a leap year. They're birthdays. And the earlier your birthday is chosen, the more likely you'll be called to serve. The camera focuses for a moment on those capsules, then cuts to Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey.
- [03:49]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
Pursuant to the executive order the Director Selective Service is going to establish tonight a random selection sequence for induction for 1970.
- [04:05]
Sally Helm
Congressman Alexander Pierney reaches into the container and pulls out the first capsule. September 14th and the draft lottery is officially underway.
- [04:20]
Chris Oppy
September 14, 001.
- [04:31]
Sally Helm
Since 1942, draft order has been up to local draft boards, panels that judge a man's fitness to serve. It's well understood that there are plenty of ways to get out of military service, especially if you have connection. The idea of this whole lottery effort is that it'll be more fair. President Nixon wants to show Americans that we're all in this together. He needs to do something. At this point, more than half the country believes that the war was a mistake.
- [05:07]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
From the lowest number up to the highest. September 14, April20.
- [05:13]
Sally Helm
There's no digital graphic on the screen showing which dates have been called and in what order. So CBS reporter Roger Mudd tries to keep viewers updated.
- [05:23]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
October 18th, September 6th.
- [05:26]
Sally Helm
Over the course of the night, the remaining 365 capsules are pulled from that plastic container.
- [05:33]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
22Nd. December 6th, August 31st, December 7th, July 8th.
- [05:41]
Sally Helm
This is a watershed moment. But it doesn't turn out how Nixon had hoped. The draft lottery will end up as just one more step in the eroding relationship between Americans and their government. Today, a story of that lost trust. How did Vietnam, the first televised war, change the kind of faith that US citizens put into their leaders? And as a country, have we ever really recovered?
- [06:23]
Sharon McMahon
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, like Alo Allbirds or Skims, sure, you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making, selling and for shoppers buying simple for millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet and the not so secret secret with Shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell whenever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout experience as business powerhouses like Aloe Allbirds and Skims. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period@shopify.com Odysseypodcast all lowercase go to shopify.com Odyssey podcast to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com Odysseypodcast hey friends, I'm Sharon McMahon.
- [07:32]
Sally Helm
Host of here's Where It Gets Interesting. Each week I speak with authors, experts and thought leaders on everything from American history and democracy to how to be a better person on the Internet. And don't miss my extremely popular Docu series which educate you on things you never learned in history class. Follow and listen to here's where it gets interesting on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [08:00]
Nourish
As we gather with loved ones this holiday season, consider how learning a new language can enhance your connections and enrich your experiences. What are your goals for the upcoming holiday season? Whether it's traveling internationally or connecting with family and friends, a new language can open doors to meaningful conversations and cultural appreciation. With that in mind, there's no better tool than Rosetta Stone, the most trusted language learning program available on desktop and mobile. Rosetta Stone immerses you in the language so you truly learn to think, speak and understand it naturally. With Rosetta Stone's intuitive approach, there are no English translations, you're fully immersed, and the built in True Accent feature acts like a personal accent coach, giving you real time feedback to make sure you sound just right. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. For a short time, listeners can get Rosetta Stone's Lifetime Membership Holiday Special. This offer will not last long. Visit rosettastone.com Rs10. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your Holiday offer@RosettaStone.com Rs10 today for yourself or as a gift that keeps giving.
- [09:11]
Sally Helm
There's this famous long standing public poll. It asks Americans do you trust the government to do what is right just about always or most of the time. In 1964, 77% say that they do. People have a lot of faith in the officials running the country. Some of this is because the government has done a good job instilling fear in its citizens. Here's Chris Oppy, professor of history and director of the Ellsberg Initiative for Peace and democracy at UMass Amherst.
- [09:46]
Chris Oppy
The government was putting across a very powerful and even scary vision of the Soviet Union as a kind of Hitler like threat, even scarier than Hitler because it was Hitler with nukes.
- [10:00]
Sally Helm
A lot of Americans trust the government to protect them from this enemy, the Soviet Union. The Communists. And the Vietnam conflict first begins to seep into the public consciousness. Kind of as part of that same story, the government emphasizes it's Communists over there, too.
- [10:19]
Chris Oppy
These struggles in Vietnam are connected to these global conflicts with communist superpowers. Behind the North Vietnamese Communists in Hanoi are the Communists in China, and behind that the Communists in the Soviet Union. It's all part of this interconnected, monolithic threat.
- [10:38]
Sally Helm
On August 2, 1964, that threat is grounded in an actual attack. Three North Vietnamese torpedo boats fire on the USS Maddox, a Navy destroyer, in the Gulf of Tonkin. Two days later, President Lyndon Johnson goes on TV.
- [10:58]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
That renewed hostile actions against United States ships on the high seas in the Gulf of Tonkin have today required me to order the military forces of the United States to take action and reply.
- [11:16]
Sally Helm
LBJ is telling a clear story. We must respond to this attack, but our action will be limited.
- [11:27]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
We still seek no wider war. I have instructed the Secretary of State to make this position totally clear to friends and to adversaries and indeed to all.
- [11:42]
Chris Oppy
Johnson was saying, I'm not going to send American boys 10,000 miles away from home to fight a war that should be fought by Vietnamese boys. And yet he already had his staff working on plans to begin sending combat troops.
- [12:00]
Sally Helm
Yeah, all is not as it seems. We'd later learn that the attack in the Gulf of Torres Tonkin was not nearly as straightforward as the government made it sound. The USS Maddox didn't sustain any real damage and the Americans fired first. And Johnson is talking about a limited war while actively planning on sending thousands of troops to Vietnam. The public doesn't know this. Johnson is up for reelection in 1964. He wins. And after he wins, he breaks his promise there would be a wider war.
- [12:38]
Chris Oppy
The American public, which hadn't voted for war, ended up getting the kind of escalation that only the losing candidate, Barry Goldwater, had actually openly advocated.
- [12:49]
Sally Helm
By the end of 1965, there are 184,000American troops in Vietnam, and the government has drafted more than 230,000 men. At the time. Men ages 18 to 25 are eligible to be drafted. They are, of course, all very young, but it's supposed to be that the oldest in that group go first. They're called in before their local draft board to be evaluated for service. And in practice, there are a number of ways to get out of it. There are student deferments and medical deferments.
- [13:24]
Chris Oppy
If you had a letter from a doctor chronicling high blood pressure or one of these other conditions, your chances of getting it were really pretty high. But if you're just an ordinary kid without many resources or awareness of these outs, you're just going to show up at the induction center for your physical exam, and more likely than not, you just get rubber stamped. You know, you look good to me, kid. You know, you're going in.
- [13:49]
Sally Helm
College students are largely exempt, but the draft is really the main thing that sparks the anti war movement on college campuses. By the end of 1966, the results of that famous poll are very different. Trust in the government had fallen significantly to 65%. It's gone down 12 points in just two years. But a clear majority of Americans do support the war, and President Johnson is out there telling the public things are.
- [14:25]
Chris Oppy
Going well, that the enemy was on the ropes, tiring, increasingly demoralized, defecting, and that the end of the war is in sight.
- [14:35]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
We're going to do whatever it is necessary to do to see that the aggressor does not succeed.
- [14:45]
Sally Helm
Johnson is doing this mostly on TV, though at this time, TV news is still taking shape. In the 50s, TV was mostly about game shows and sitcoms. But as the 60s proceed, news is beginning to take up more airtime. There's a lot to report on, and the three major TV networks develop a pipeline that lets them bring footage to American homes from the front lines. Film is developed in Tokyo and then express shipped or transmitted via satellite. And then it's on the evening news. The most popular anchor at the time is CBS's Walter Cronkite. Here is Wes Abney. He's the author of a book about the Vietnam draft.
- [15:31]
Wes Abney
Cronkite was the leader in that respect. I think he was known as the man that America trusts.
- [15:40]
Sally Helm
Abney was a teenager in the mid-60s, closely following the war on TV.
- [15:46]
Wes Abney
My family used to watch the 630 News with Walter Cronkite, and every night, if it wasn't the lead story it was one of the major stories, you know, for years and years.
- [16:01]
Sally Helm
In 1968, the story takes a turn. The North Vietnamese begin the Tet Offensive. U.S. and South Vietnamese forces see heavy losses.
- [16:13]
Wes Abney
And that was such a shock. Everyone saw. It just wasn't like we had been led to believe.
- [16:20]
Sally Helm
Walter Cronkite himself travels to Vietnam to find out the truth, not just what the government is saying. On February 27, having returned back to New York, Cronkite concludes his broadcast with something quite unfamiliar.
- [16:35]
Chris Oppy
Cronkite gave a report which included a little bit of editorializing, which was unusual because there was such a strict adherence to a kind of objectivity, or at least you wanted to present the tone of neutrality. And his statement included the line that goes something like. It is now certain that the bloody.
- [16:55]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
Experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate, but it is increasingly clear to this report that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate.
- [17:07]
Chris Oppy
In other words, saying that there really is no end in sight. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. There is no guaranteed victory. And in the White House, President Johnson was perhaps the first to understand the significance of Cronkite's statement. He apparently turned to an aide and said something to the effect of, if I've lost Cronkite, I've lost Middle America.
- [17:29]
Sally Helm
The Tet Offensive is not technically a defeat. The US And South Vietnamese forces are able to push the North Vietnamese back. But the shock of the attack and how different it is from what LBJ has been saying, that's what lasts. It's later called the credibility gap, and the Tet offensive exposes it like no other event up to that point.
- [17:53]
Chris Oppy
Politically and psychologically, one has to conclude that this was a stunning defeat to the US side in the war.
- [18:00]
Sally Helm
By the end of 1968, just 62% of Americans say in that poll that they trust the government, and a clear majority now oppose the war. Lyndon B. Johnson's Vice president, Hubert Humphrey, cannot separate himself from how poorly the war has gone. And he loses the election to Richard Nixon, who promises to bring the fighting to an end. And that is all before one of the most shocking events of the Vietnam conflict even comes to light. Towards the end of the Tet Offensive in March, US Soldiers had entered a settlement called My Lai.
- [18:41]
Chris Oppy
The New York Times wrote a story about a successful American firefight that killed 128 enemy troops with only two American casualties, a totally phony story that the army invented.
- [18:56]
Sally Helm
In fact, My Lai had been a horrific massacre. Commanding officers ordered soldiers to kill everyone in sight, over 500 Vietnamese civilians, and.
- [19:09]
Chris Oppy
That cover up story lasted for something like 18 months.
- [19:13]
Sally Helm
But the story finally does break. And while some Americans want to deny it or brush it aside, it is also creating a crisis of legitimacy for this war. Wes Abney is watching all of the My Lai coverage from his college dorm.
- [19:30]
Wes Abney
That was part of the published problem with it. Not just soldier on soldier, but you know, the war machine just murdering who knows how many civilians every day.
- [19:42]
Sally Helm
And less than three weeks after the My Lai massacre comes to light, US Officials will carry out the first televised draft lottery. Wes Abney, along with millions of others, will find out if he's joining this war.
- [20:05]
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- [20:36]
Chris Oppy
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- [21:06]
Etsy
This episode is brought to you by Etsy. Oh, hear that?
- [21:11]
Sally Helm
Thank you.
- [21:12]
Etsy
Etsy knows these aren't the sounds of holiday gifting. Well, not the ones you're hoping for. You want squeals of delight, happy tears?
- [21:22]
Sally Helm
How did you.
- [21:24]
Etsy
And spontaneously written songs of joy.
- [21:27]
Chris Oppy
I am so happy.
- [21:29]
Sally Helm
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
- [21:30]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
Oh yeah.
- [21:31]
Etsy
Um, okay, the song needs a bit of work, but anyway to get those reactions, make sure everyone on your list feels heard with handmade, handpicked and designed gifts from small shops on Etsy. Gifts like personalized jewelry, custom artwork, cozy style items, vintage pieces and home decor to celebrate all of your favorite people and their specific kind of special. For original gifts that say I get.
- [21:56]
Sally Helm
You, Etsy has it in 1969, Wes Abney is 19 years old. He'd be subject to the draft lottery or no. But now the earlier his birthday is chosen, the likelier he is to actually get.
- [22:12]
Wes Abney
Called that one night you were likely to find out, am I headed to Vietnam or am I safe?
- [22:20]
Sally Helm
President Nixon has decided to make this big change to the draft. Not those decisions by local draft boards. Instead, random chance. It'll be fairer. And he thinks it could even boost morale. The last time the country conducted a draft lottery was during World War II. It was full of patriotic symbolism, even some amount of celebration for the first one. There was a military flyover. FDR was there to conduct the lottery in person.
- [22:54]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
We are all with you in the task which enlists the services of all Americans, the task of keeping the peace in this new world of ours.
- [23:13]
Sally Helm
The 1969 draft lottery does not have that same spirit. On December 1st, Wes Abney is watching on TV, along with his entire dorm at the University of North Carolina, a.
- [23:25]
Wes Abney
Little black and white TV and maybe 50 or 60 students in there watching. That sort of nervous camaraderie. Everybody was joking, but feeling pretty nervous about it because there was not much of an illusion anymore that it was for a good purpose or that it was going to serve any helpful outcome this evening.
- [23:53]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
This has been a very systematic, almost mechanical lottery. The first national televised lottery we've ever had. There's been little excitement here, but for one or two brief occasions, four or.
- [24:04]
Wes Abney
Five of the September 14th came out first, and then they just went through it. And every time a number would come out, there was like a collective sigh of relief, except for maybe the unlucky guy. So it was pretty dramatic to sit there and. But we had, you know, we had to watch it because we had to know.
- [24:29]
Sally Helm
Wes Abney's birthday is read out that night at number 210 in the lower half of dates. But he's still within the group of numbers that is asked to appear for a physical just in case.
- [24:44]
Wes Abney
He had to get up early in the morning and meet this bus at the prescribed location.
- [24:52]
Sally Helm
The men are brought to the local draft induction center, where they'll be evaluated for fitness by doctors and nurses. And as Abney is changing in the locker room, he notices something.
- [25:04]
Wes Abney
There was this giant rustling, and a lot of people were pulling out their doctor's letters. And I was like, uh, oh, what did I miss here?
- [25:13]
Sally Helm
Yes, Even with the fairness of the lottery, there are still a lot of exemptions to find a doctor listens to Abney's heart, checks his hearing, his eyes. On that last test, Abney notices another loophole.
- [25:30]
Wes Abney
They checked your eyes not by reading an eye chart, but by checking your prescription glasses on a little machine. So people are onto that, and you can borrow glasses from somebody with horrible vision. Take them with you, pretend they were yours, and float the eye test.
- [25:50]
Sally Helm
The draft lottery doesn't totally solve the problem of fairness. In 1970, opposition to the draft actually grows, especially after President Nixon announces an expansion of the war into Cambodia. And overall, Chris Oppie says public opinion about the war continues to worsen.
- [26:10]
Chris Oppy
71% of Americans believed that the war had been a mistake. And even more impressive to my mind was that same poll found that 58% of Americans had concluded that the American war in Vietnam was immoral.
- [26:25]
Sally Helm
And as for the number of Americans that trust the government, by the end of 1970, it was 54%, down 23 points since the start of the war. Vietnam drags on for four more years. Wes Abney doesn't have to go to war. His number is never called. But many other young men do. And a lot more happens to undermine Americans faith in government. There's the revelation of a secret bombing campaign in Cambodia. The Pentagon papers get leaked. They show that the scope of the war was far wider than anyone outside the government was led to believe. Trust in government drops one more point between 70 and 72. And then, of course, with the Watergate scandal, it just tanks down to 36%. The end of the Vietnam War is, like the rest of the conflict, televised.
- [27:25]
Chris Oppy
Very dramatic images came into American living rooms in end of April 1975. Images of a kind of panicky evacuation off the roof of the American Embassy.
- [27:38]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
The people here were herded into groups. All they could take was hand luggage.
- [27:43]
Chris Oppy
These were scary images of people in flight in a clear communist takeover.
- [27:48]
Lieutenant General Lewis Hershey
The shooting on this day, the communists won was not in a battle, but a celebration. Saigon had already surrendered.
- [27:57]
Chris Oppy
But I would say the American public was also not eager to reenter the war. So along with this kind of scary images that were being seen, I think a sense of a kind of relief that the war was finally over.
- [28:13]
Sally Helm
By 1976, just 35% of Americans trust the government to do what is right.
- [28:21]
Chris Oppy
I do believe that the American experience in Vietnam is responsible for a lot of the decline in American trust in the government. But let me hasten to add that that's not necessarily a bad thing.
- [28:33]
Sally Helm
Yeah, some of that was a response to real conditions, real deceptions that had been perpetrated on the American people.
- [28:41]
Chris Oppy
Let's not romanticize the nearly blind faith in the government of the early Cold War in which American leaders were deceiving the public on many things. So the rise in skepticism of government, I think, was a healthy thing for our democracy.
- [29:04]
Sally Helm
But Oppie notes this rise in skepticism came along with a rise in cynicism.
- [29:11]
Chris Oppy
That the government can never be a force for good that represents our own interest and that we as citizens cannot possibly play a role in shaping the way the government responds to our needs, he says.
- [29:27]
Sally Helm
It's about faith, not just in our leaders, but in ourselves. On that question from the public, do you trust the government to do what is right just about always or most of the time? The number has hovered between the tens and twenties and thirties for decades. There was an upswing in the late 1990s and a brief spike after 9 11, but then it went down again. As of 2024, that number sits at just 22%. Thanks for listening to History this Week, a Back Pocket Studios production in partnership with the History Channel. To stay updated on all things History this Week, sign up@historythisweekpodcast.com and if you have any thoughts or questions, send us an email@historythisweekistory.com Special thanks to our guests Chris Oppy, professor of History at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and the director of the Ellsberg Initiative for Peace and Democracy, and Wes Abney, author of Random how the Vietnam War Drafts Lottery Shaped a Generation. This episode was produced by David Weisbord. It was produced and sound designed by Ben Dickstein. History this Week is also produced by me, Sally Helm for Backpocket Studios. Our executive producers are Ben Dickstein and David Weisbord from the History Channel. Our executive producers are Eli Lehrer and Liv Fiddler. Don't forget to follow rate and review History this Week, wherever you get your podcasts, and we'll see you next week. Hey listeners, we just want to let you know that as we head into the holidays, History this Week is not going anywhere. You have plenty of new stories to share with family and friends, so when you're showing off everything you learned, make sure to tell them you got it from History this Week.